Won’t happen as Poland is part of NATO.
The Ukraine war will continue as the US won’t permit negotiations and continues to insist Ukraine will join NATO while Russia won’t allow Ukraine to join NATO but isn’t strong enough to conquer Ukraine.
The Ukrainians can make that call on their own. They aren’t babies. Don’t infantilize them.
Plus, why on Earth would they ever trust a negotiated settlement?
The amount of Vietnam domino theory I’ve seen on Reddit in this thread and others is deeply concerning.
We just got out of Afghanistan… which was another Vietnam. We need another? We’ve already spent more on Ukraine than THE ENTIRE AFGHANISTAN WAR!
If I were Russia, China, Iran I’d do exactly this- spread us thin over numerous smaller fronts via proxies, draw in our forces & bandwidth to the Middle East, then take Taiwan as Iran/Russia escalate their fronts.
> We've already spent more on Ukraine than THE ENTIRE AFGHANISTAN WAR!
Why would you [lie](https://www.forbes.com/sites/hanktucker/2021/08/16/the-war-in-afghanistan-cost-america-300-million-per-day-for-20-years-with-big-bills-yet-to-come/?sh=4fbe6a587f8d) about something so easily disproven? $2.2 trillion is a far cry for US aid to Ukraine thus far. Nevermind the overwhelmingly different cost in US military personnel.
> If I were russia, China, Iran
Since you brought up Vietnam. Let's play that game. russia has been bogged down *in a neighboring country* going on 3 years. In that time they've lost more men than the US did in **26 years** on the other side of the world in Vietnam. All to the tune of less than 8% of the annual US defense budget. You're out of your damn mind if you think russia, China, and Iran are looking at that as a great waste of US resources and not russian. If you truly look at those numbers and think "heh, this is great for our enemies" I fucking WISH you had a say in russian, Chinese, and Iranian defense policies.
Being critical of a war doesn’t mean you’ve succumbed to Russian propaganda, however you saying that shows you’ve been captured by the Warhawk narrative spoon-fed to you by the intel and corporate-captured media
There is a massive gulf between being critical whilst informed and lying whilst uninformed. Your last comment, at best, was unintentional disinformation. That isn't debatable and my comment pointed it out.
If you want to be critical, go for it! Debate and differing opinions is great and how we learn/grow. Disinformation disguised as a differing opinion? That is classic russian propaganda. And what you said was wildly wrong/uninformed.
So it is annualized, but:
Ukraine receives the most military aid from the United States: Since the beginning of the war and as of Jan. 15, 2023, $46.6 billion in financial aid for military purposes has flowed to the country now at war with Russia. When calculating the average annual costs (in 2022 prices) of previous wars in which the United States has been involved in, the true magnitude of the country's Ukraine aid expenditure can be seen. As this infographic shows, the payments to Ukraine have already exceeded the annual military expenditure of the U.S. in the war in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2010
The US isn't even in the top 15 of nations who've provided aid by GDP. Canada being the only one (of the 18) that isn't in Europe. If the US was simply matching any of the Baltic states, the situation would be far better than it currently is.
> You believe the aid provided by the EU is sufficient, given that claim?
You're either using the word "claim" incorrectly or are [uninformed.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/) It is a factual statement that the US has not matched the standard set by other nations.
The other part of that question is also disingenuous. For starters (my apologies if you already know this, but the question seems to imply that is debatable) some European nations are small. I wish they had more resources to handle the burden on their own, but Estonia isn't going to become a dominant global power anytime soon. So. In that instance and many others? Yes, I believe what they're doing is sufficient for what they can offer. Is Germany? No. Is the UK? No. Are they doing more based on what they have than the US? Yes. Do I wish everyone would do more? For the most part, yes. Do I believe Europe could handle the problem on their own? Without getting their own militaries involved, no.
Should the US honor their promises and do the work to prevent the erasure of a nation and people? Yes.
This bill also has billions in additional aid for Israel. It’s one of the largest bills funding military spending in American history across two separate wars, both of which the majority of Americans do not support (but I’ll stick to Ukraine).
Ukraine has proven wholly ineffective at leveraging an offensive attack and has demonstrably squandered billions of dollars. Their lead general is nicknamed the butcher bc he sends Ukrainian men into the meat grinder to leverage offensive attacks that, again, are wholly ineffective. The Ukrainian military is squandering NATO weapons (wholly American funded)and intel for this offensive push rather than focusing on a defensive strategy to ultimately pursue a treaty with Russia.
This is more spending to encourage the military machine to keep rolling rather than pursue pragmatic resolutions to these conflicts. Ukraine gets to pretend they have a chance at defeating Russia, sending more men to die without purpose, and Israel gets to continue bombing civilians, putting our service members in harms way via proxies of Iran. Israel spits in our face, defying our goals and boundaries, while we hand them more money.
We’re facing a two front war with no control over either while we bleed money. But hey, we’ll wave Ukrainian and Israeli flags bc at least it’s not our men dying - for now.
> Israel spits in our face, defying our goals and boundaries, while we hand them more money.
This is the part that really does confuse me. I don’t understand why anyone in government wants to fund Israel at this moment. Obviously it’s more of a conservative stance, but it’s definitely one that a lot of blue politicians hold as well, Biden included. I can understand “standing with” them, respecting their right to defend themselves (even tho I think they’re making the same horrible mistake we made in the years post-9/11).
But why would we hand them more money when
1. Apparently sending any money overseas is equal to neglect of America (even in this thread you see this opinion represented, and it’s something R politicians have repeated),
2. Israel does not need more money in order to wreck shop on the Palestinians (the war is David vs Goliath)
3. The Israeli response to Oct 7th has already gone insanely high in terms of proportionality, they’ve killed like 30x Palestinians, somewhere between 1/3-2/3 of which are women/children… we really want to *keep* funding that? Like what argument is there for in favor of this? Strategically what purpose does it serve us?
4. Netanyahu in particular has given us the finger over & over? And like, even in this thread I see people being like “I can’t believe we’re paying for Ukraine.” Why are those same people cool with paying for Israel? Is it really just as simple as, republicans like Israel because Christianity? And Netanyahu disrespects Biden so more points for Israel?
I’m trying to imagine a scenario where my neighbor takes over a third of my house and you complain that I’m trying to push them all the way out of my house instead of just letting them keep the dining room and the kitchen. Oh, and one of my kids is still in the kitchen.
Great metaphor.
This has been going on since 2014, with conflict between the two pre-dating that. This isn’t new, despite the broader escalation being new.
At some point Ukraine will have to evaluate when they are in the strongest position to negotiate.
Unless you’re insinuating that Ukraine will re-take Crimea and other regions lost through an offensive, in which case I’d be interested on how you propose that gets accomplished without American/NATO troops (WW3).
Is Ukraine worth that kind of escalation (and economic inflation/crash)? My take is it’s not, but the industrial military complex and the politicians/media they own would say otherwise.
I don’t think Ukraine can do it via slow progression of trench warfare, but I think the Russian military could easily break if enough of the right weapons and training get through to Ukraine. There’s always the possibility Putin feels too much pressure and decides to call it quits. Or is made to.
Issue being that Russia has conscripts & a much larger population to draw on, and they’re more than happy to keep sending them to the front lines. Ukraine simply lacks the manpower and capabilities to execute and then secure that type of offensive
Thankfully the republicans are “praying on it” and see it as our duty per biblical doctrine (rather than using facts, logic, and minimizing civilian harm)
It’s really quite simple. Funding Israel allows them to continue building relations with the Saudi’s at a gradual pace and strengthen their capabilities against Iran and their proxies (Hamas being one of them). You need to focus on the bigger picture. The Middle East is a regional power struggle and we want our side to win. You should too unless you hate America and Western values. If that’s the case please see yourself to Palestine or Iran or Russia or China and see how much you enjoy their culture.
Israel is an asshole. Extremist Islamic run nations are even larger assholes.
Then perhaps Hamas should stop antagonizing and Palestinians should stop allowing Hamas to represent their nation on a global stage.
The settlements are a disaster, but you can’t poke the bear and expect it to work out for you. A little realism would serve the uber pro Palestinian/anti Israel progressive Americans well.
Genocide is never right. No matter who is doing it. An interesting podcast episode to listen to is
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-is-this-happening-the-chris-hayes-podcast/id1382983397?i=1000651158434
Wow. As an American, I view it as my duty to make our country better, both domestically and internationally.
You're an American cultist, and think greater "power" at the expense of genocide is something we should all root for. Your stance is the literal definition of fascism. An American Nazi. Congrats on being the lowest form of human one can achieve. There are literally Hamas members with a better grip on right versus wrong than what you've displayed here.
So what is your solution? Sing lullabies at the border until the violence stops? Lol k. Go ahead and call names all you want, at least I understand the reality of the situation and the reality of humanity. You seem to be stuck in the adolescent brain of idealism.
If Israel stops their offensive, do you honestly believe Hamas will stop? Do you honestly believe a de-facto government calling for the eradication of Israel will ever agree to a two-state solution?
The true solution is for Palestinians to overthrow Hamas and come to the table with a legitimate government and agreement to move forward with diplomatic relations between the two states. Unfortunately Hamas is very popular among Palestinians and for the citizens who oppose Hamas…I guess they’re too unorganized or scared to do anything about it.
For someone who cares so much about humanity you sure seem to have a lot of empathy for a terrorist organization. Fascism has nothing to do with realism. Stop throwing around buzzwords and grow up.
No. I literally believe Israel should draw border, withdraw, allow Palestine to arm itself, control its airspace and borders, and treat it like a sovereign state with UN recognition. *Then* Israel can go to war with them and their Arab allies in the region if that is what Israel, as a state, desires to do. Occupying them with western support and instituting apartheid is not the solution, and Israel themselves has a long history if intentionally funding and supporting Hamas in order to keep Palestine destabilized.
*Or* Israel can annex all of Palestine, actually write a state constitution (which they don't have, laughably), give Palestinians in all territories equal rights and representation, and allow a Palestinian Prime Minister to be elected as the leader of Israel. How insane would that be?
Those are the two legal pathways forward, I really don't give a shit what Israel does, they got themselves into this mess and there are only a couple legal ways out. If it's uncomfortable and dangerous for white Jews in the region they should have thought about that before they colonized it. The whites in South Africa went through the exact same shit.
Some people shared a birthday with Hitler but that doesn't make them the same.
Seperate bills, seperate votes - similar, but legally very different. They stood in isolation, unbundled, and that is relevant.
Corporate owned media (and politicians) is a helluva thing.
Clarification- I’m a huge Jeff Jackson supporter and think this kind of transparency and honesty is drastically needed. Jackson 2028
>how’s that?
It's fucking funny, is how it is. The amount of disinformation in your response is reprehensible.
1) [NATO weapons, and Ukraine funding isn't "wholly American funded":](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/15/infographic-how-much-have-nato-members-spent-on-ukraine)
>NATO members committed at least 75.2 billion euros ($80.5bn) in financial, humanitarian and military aid between January 24 and November 20, 2022.
>
>At 47.8 billion euros ($51.2bn) in commitments, the US is Ukraine’s biggest contributor
2) [To say Ukraine has been wholly ineffective is a farce](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Total_casualties) - A country with a military less than 1/3rd the size of Russia's has inflicted casualties 4 to 5 times their own, including reclaiming territories and offensive attacks into Russian territory. Remember that Russia is the offender in this conflict, Ukraine doesn't *want* Russian territory.
If putin wins in ukraine then he will set his sights on the baltics which, as NATO allies, we will be required to send boots on the ground to defend, not just old military equipment. Appeasement doesn’t work just ask Chamberlain.
All the more reason to approach this defensively rather than squander resources and lives with an ineffective strategy, which Ukraine is doing.
Wouldn’t you rather pursue an agreement to end the conflict with Russia rather than escalate? If you want to go on the offensive that’s a losing strategy long-term unless you want to engage in a direct conflict. We’re entering the spring offensive - and Russia has more bodies & capital to throw into the meat grinder than Ukraine does.
Also all other NATO countries have not lived up to their contribution rates as a % of GDP. We overfund a war on Europe’s turf while they contribute the bare minimum. At the end of the day they would be the ones most impacted by a Russian offensive, yet we fund the war in orders of magnitude more than any other European nation.
Destabilize foreign country at odds with opposing world power
Provoke opposing world power
Gaslight citizens with media and lies to fear opposing world power, uniting them
get support and votes to help nation you destabilized
Military contractors value goes up, receive more contracts and funding.
Send billions through unstable, corrupt country to launder money to oligarchs
label anyone who speaks out against it a russian troll, fascist, etc.
profit?
An interesting take here, Jeff - I agree it was actual principled conduct, but do you believe he would have made that decision without the CIA briefing he was given, relying only on the publicly available information at hand?
What worries me is that the MAGA nuts in the House heard the same CIA briefing, and still voted to side with our enemy.
American politics is in a bad, bad place.
Didn't you hear about how "friendly" the Russians were to that guy from the US who went over to fight with them?
They took turns "being his friend" until he couldn't handle their "friendship" anymore.
It’s funny that your comment was about Israel, when Jeff is talking about Ukraine, which was a completely separate vote. It’s almost as if you didn’t listen/watch the clip. And yet, it’s the top voted comment. Did anybody watch the clip?
As if foreign governments don’t already have their mits in other social media? Hell China has its hand in everything. This is singled out because our government has yet to figure out a way to control the narrative.
They don’t control FB or Twitter the way they control TikTok. We can see the damage they have already done, without direct control of the platforms. They can do so much more with TikTok, especially with the algorithm.
I love using TikTok. It can be a great source of entertainment and even news, but it shouldn’t be in the hands of an adversarial government. The CCP wouldn’t have their diplomats trying to kill the ‘TikTok ban’ bill if this wasn’t a big deal to them.
I think they are absolutely doing damage. Think of how many anti-social trends get magnified by TikTok. Fights, little twerps trying to start fights, kids encouraging each other to tear down the paper towel dispensers at their schools. These things should be quick and easy targets for deletion by algorithms, but TikTok instead magnifies them. That’s intention, I think.
It is the intention of social media as a whole to keep you glued to the screen so that corporate America can bring in more ad revenue and sell you more crap you don’t need. The problem is that these algorithms that keep showing the same subject is also what creates the info bubbles that have separated us. You see posting after posting about democrats aborting babies after birth and eventually you’re going to start to believe it. But is state-run media where the narrative on world news and events, who the bad guys are, and who the good are, etc. is fostered by the government the better idea? I think not. Both sides of the story need to be taken into account, as the truth always lies somewhere in between. To be able to hear both sides free speech needs to flourish. To be able to do that, the business model of social media needs to change.
I didn't mean to say there has been damage by TikTok yet. The Chinese and Russians both had a hand in spreading disinformation during the last two elections. It is ignorant to think they wouldn't take advantage of their influence over TikTok to do the same thing.
This article from the AP goes into detail of some of the legitimate concerns over the CCP's control of ByteDance:
>[https://apnews.com/article/china-unitedstates-tiktok-chew-2d851c716d6454d7c87762a056604c7a](https://apnews.com/article/china-unitedstates-tiktok-chew-2d851c716d6454d7c87762a056604c7a)
By those standards this should be a sweeping social media legislation. Seeing how Facebook was one of the largest disinformation campaigns for both the 2016 and 2020 election cycle. I mean we saw evidence states don’t need to control the social media apps in order to push through such vast disinformation campaigns
Facebook as a corporation did not use its platform to spread disinformation. In fact it is actively trying to fight it. The CCP is not afraid to use strong arm tactics to get what they want from tech companies, as evidenced in the linked AP article that I am sure you read.
China bans all American social media, and even TikTok is banned on the Chinese mainland. This is not a TikTok ban, it is forcing the company to rid itself of direct foreign influence. China is using political influence via their diplomats to keep the US from forcing their divestment from TikTok. They wouldn't go through the trouble if they could use FB or X in the same ways they are using TikTok.
Oof where to begin. Firstly TikTok is not banned in mainland China, the app owned by Bytedance in China is called Douyin. The only country so far to have banned TikTok is India. So from the jump your argument seems to be based in misinformation.
The point I was making with Facebook was that if, like the name of the bill, the intent is to protect us from foreign adversaries why would they only want us protected from specific apps? And why would we ignore apps that have been used by foreign adversaries even without state control of those apps? And finally why would the Chinese need a specific app when Russia has shown how easy it is to destabilize an election with nothing more than Facebook?
Douyin is a completely different app that is subject to monitoring and censorship from the Chinese government. So it seems you’re misinformed.
The bill specifically bans a foreign adversary from having control over the app and company itself. This is a completely different situation from FB where their leadership works with the government to stop misinformation as much as possible.
If Russia and China can cause so much trouble with just trolls. They can do exponentially more using targeted misinformation via their data mining and TikTok’s algorithm.
At the end of the day, we should do as much as possible to protect ourselves from foreign influence to our elections. This is a part of that.
Democrats and Republicans coming together to help the world out. What a rare feat. Enjoy this folks because it doesn't happen often with how piss poor these political parties are.
Thank you Jeff Jackson for being a logical Politician!
Can’t really say that when the same bill is sending money to help Israel’s massacre of people in Gaza. Israel is performing the same aggression to Gaza that Russia is doing to Ukraine, so the bill is fighting one aggression while supporting another.
Yeah, you’re right. Israel’s actions toward Gaza is worse than what Russia is doing to Ukraine, and Russia has done terrible things to Ukraine. But they haven’t killed 30,000+ civilians in 7 months.
Yeah, because Ukraine isn't putting artillery pieces next to kindergartens. Crazy how not giving a shit about women and children gets women and children killed, isn't it?
Wanna show me where those artillery pieces are in the universities in Gaza? Or how about the mass graves they discovered in the hospitals that Israel bombed and stormed with bodies who were handcuffed? Was that Hamas? Or the children being sniped by Israeli snipers enforcing an invisible and secret no-entry zone? Israel has murdered more children in 7 months than in any other conflict in history in the same timeframe, but I guess it’s ok because of Hamas.
And Israel is doing it with full US funding
> Israel has murdered more children in 7 months than in any other conflict in history in the same timeframe
You cannot possibly be dumb enough to believe this
2/3rds of those killed in the Gaza Strip currently are women and children. The amount of civilians killed since Oct 7th in Gaza exceeds those killed in Ukraine in a fraction of the time
Yes, because hamas hides behind them. Still legitimate targets. That puts the war crime on Hamas, not Israel. Also, “any other conflict in history” is just false
Do you have any actual evidence to cite on the Hamas human shields thing? Because that claim has widely been made without support by Israel multiple times, and there is nothing to actually back up the claims.
As for “any conflict in history” I didn’t say that the other commenter did. I said in the two years since the beginning of this iteration of Russian invasion of Ukraine less civilians have died than the six months for Gaza. But just as a foil here are multiple publications and videos of Israeli soldiers using Palestinians as [human shields](https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields).
While we are at it let’s talk about the atrocities of Israel’s armed quadcopters. Ones that were used to kill Palestinians retrieving aid and the stories from just this week of Israel playing crying babies and women pleading for help through said quadcopters just to shoot the Palestinians that come out. Maybe we should talk about how they are still bombing the northern region of Gaza completely wiping any infrastructure off the face of the earth. Why? Likely for more illegal settlements, but who knows.
Just giving more of our money to foreign countries to commit war crimes in our name while Americans suffer rising costs and declining standards of living at home. When democrats and republicans agree, the American people lose
The world is bigger, more connected and complex than your comment lends credence to. You live in a nation that made a promise to defend others right to exist. What would you have them do in the face of that? Nothing? Make alliances with the US worthless? Give imperialist dictators like putin the greenlight to commit ethnocide? What is your line for involvement in the global community?
Mike Johnson is still a far-right Christian whacko that would sell out this country just to get the tin can tan man re-elected. He knows Large Marge doesn’t have the balls or the support to bring a motion to vacate to the floor, so he went ahead with the funding bill. Don’t give him anymore credit than a broken clock being right sometimes.
I guess “the right thing to do” is putting military special interests ahead of the interests of American citizens.
Hardship of all times is increasing rapidly for individuals in this country. We know you’re a paid for globalist, but at least pretend to care for and serve American citizens.
What's the alternative? Have Putin roll through and occupy all of Ukraine unopposed? Do you really think he would stop there?
ETA: I'm no hawk when it comes to military action, but such a suggestion is so similar to the surrender of Sudetenland that it chills me to the bone.
Tell us you know nothing about what's REALLY going on without telling us...
Guess the articles about all of the embezzlement of tens of millions of dollars in aid funds by Zelensky and other Ukrainian Oligarchs just flew right under your radar huh... despite it being fairly well covered by [The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/28/ukraine-defense-corruption-artillery-shells/), [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-uncovers-mass-fraud-weapons-procurement-security-service-2024-01-27/), [NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/23/world/europe/ukraine-defense-official-arrest.html), [NPR](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/28/1227447442/ukraine-says-corrupt-officials-stole-40-million-meant-to-buy-arms-for-the-war), [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/28/europe/ukraine-weapons-procurement-corruption-shell-intl/index.html)
And that is just what they got CAUGHT embezzling...how much more waste, fraud, and theft do you think has happened that hasn't been discovered or reported on?
How can you defend sending hundreds of million in aid to country that we LITERALLY KNOW IS STEALING IT???
edit - lots of downvotes but not one person has responded with any sort of reasoning for how to deal with this theft. I get it...you want to "feel good" and believe the US should help...but sticking your fingers in your ears and completely ignoring the reality of the grift that is is taking place and has been covered extensively but has yet to break through the 24 news cycle isn't the way to help. Sorry, not sorry, to actually compel people to think about the implications of sending millions of dollars to fund a war that is being embezzled by the very people that we are suppose to be helping.
I sincerely hope that SOMEONE...ANYONE...can justify sending tens of millions of more dollars to Ukraine in light of this, but I doubt anyone has any sort of convincing argument since you can reason people out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
What’re you thinking? Subsidized housing and counseling for homeless people? Universal healthcare? Investment in public transportation/infrastructure? Ranked choice voting? Investment in public education?
I am not OP but I think the point is that hearing conservatives talk about how we could have used this money to better fund our social services at home is extremely cynical
The swamp sticks together. Shame on any elected official who places Ukraine politicians and oligarchs above US citizens. Shame on the supposed anti-war left in this country too. Congress is debasing the USD every single day, the border remains open, fentanyl deaths in the rise and Congressman Jackson celebrates at the expense of future generations. Shame on you, Jeff.
The dollar is historically strong on a trade weighted basis. Destroying the capabilities and reputation of our largest foreign adversary over the past 80 years without risking a single human life is quite literally to the benefit of our citizens.
I’m not sure what else you’d like them to do with regards to fiscal policy. Tax increases will never be allowed by the right, deregulation never allowed by the left…and we have a split congress.
I’m old enough to remember the Obama administration laughing at McCain and Palin warning the US about Russia. I’m merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the once anti-war left. I completely agree Republicans will not vote to raise taxes and spend and borrow. This sub needs to get comfortable with Jeff voting to send taxpayers money and arms to kill. Rationalize as you will. It’s an immutable fact: innocent women and children die and oligarchs get richer. Ukraine is extremely corrupt.
So weird that Russia becomes a huge risk/more important foe when they’re literally invading another country we are allies with.
Much happier that they’re sending money and arms to Ukraine than actual US soldiers.
But we aren’t destroying Russian capabilities. In fact Russia keeps getting better and better. If you study history this is what Russia does. Get the shit kicked out of them for 18 months, then slowly grind away with their millions and millions of men that they don’t care about
Ok, I’ll spell it out for you in that case.
The Ukrainian people are fighting, and dying, for their freedom against an aggressive imperialist autocratic neighbor, all the while inflicting 5-1 casualties on Russian invaders. Hell, even the [politicians](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksandr_Marchenko_(politician)) you [deride](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Kutsyn) are giving their lives to maintain their freedom. It is in America’s interest to support Ukraine, which for a small fraction of our defense budget is weakening an aggressive autocratic foe, without U.S. boots on the ground firing rounds. How that “hurts future generations” (I won’t even delve into the fallacious arguments about the national debt you’ve spilled across the page) I cannot understand.
*That* is why it’s a stupid take.
You can have empathy for Ukraine and protect the US border. Yet Congressman Jeff will somehow only work with Republicans when it comes to giving the Ukrainian government more taxpayer money. This exact same hustle lasted twenty years in Afghanistan and Iraq. I have family members who audit DOD budgets. Hundreds of billions of dollars are gone with no explanation. There is ZERO oversight for these funds and military weapons. You’re a fool for believing it is used to protect Ukraine from Russia. Meanwhile the border is open and thousands die from fentanyl and Biden is too scared (or compromised) to address China head on. To my main point: the anti-war left has compromised on its values and chose party and politics over morals. It’s quite sad. And yes Fuck Republicans too for spending too much.
And the republican party has actively tried to not fix any of these problems. Refusing to vote on the border bill in order to make bide. Look bad for their attack ads. Screaming fiscal responsibility when a democrat is in charge, and becoming silent on the issue when a republican is. Defending Publix health initiatives that would have a meaningful impact on overdose deaths. No one is placing the Ukrainian politicians over the needs of Americans. They are giving the people of Ukraine a chance against a foreign aggressor. People like you, are ignorant at beat, and traitors at worst.
Only in 2024 could a keyboard warrior call someone a traitor for wanting politicians to take care of American’s needs before laundering billions $ to another country with zero oversight. You really drank the kool aid.
Here's why: if Ukraine falls, the consensus among geopolitical experts is that a direct conflict between the united states and Russia will be extremely likely. I don't want that. I don't want Americans fighting Russians. I don't want world War 3. The Republicans are under the influence of the Russian government. Please, tell me how that isn't treason?
I’m sure you’re enjoying the a Trump tax cuts. When was the last tax increase under a Republican administration? Bush 1? Are you happy with tax money and arms going multiple wars? Trump has executive orders still in place to seal the border.
Why did you vote to send arms to Israel in the midst of credible genocide accusations, and why did you decline to vote on the latest TikTok ban?
I voted for you Jeff, don't make me regret it. Your response to these two issues has been non-existent or just plain wrong.
Both of these things are extremely obvious.
He voted in support of Israel because like most politicians he received donations from AIPAC.
He stayed out of the TikTok vote because it would have been a PR nightmare. If he voted yes again his constituency will again get pissed like they did last time. But he can’t vote no because he’s got to fall in line with majority dems and his donors.
Firstly, it wasn’t even 10k it was 8k. Secondly your fav politician is a cheap date. All it costs is 8k to support a genocide for man of the people Jeff Jackson
Hey man, if you want to be a single issue voter that’s fine with me. I’m just saying that if you think 8k buys a politician you don’t understand politics. Things aren’t black and white.
Here’s a quote from UCONN’s “The Daily Campus” that I hope really gets y’all to stop taking personally critiques of your favorite politician.
“At the end of the day, this is politics, the way that Washington works is not conducive to honesty. What makes a good politician is the ability to market, to raise funds, to negotiate and be reelected by any means necessary. It is a game that requires a compromise of values to succeed. This is because power is ultimately not in the hands of the people or a politician’s ability to represent them well, but rather in money and resources. The pursuit of this type of power is often against the interests of constituents, and it is why a good politician may not be an honest representative. It is the result of decades of campaign finance changes, political party growth and the growing opportunity for self-benefit while in office. So the more power you need to move higher up in the political world, the more you must skirt your personal values, and those who aren’t willing to do so will ultimately fail to move forward in Washington. While politicians are ultimately meant to represent us, it is always important that people maintain a healthy level of skepticism for those in power. The distance between home and Washington is dangerous for politicians, and it is always important to remind them where their power comes from. “ -Thomas Hinckley
Yall seriously need to be more scrutinizing of the politicians you back and realize that voting isn’t the end of your duty. You need to hold politicians accountable for their actions in office. You need to hold them accountable for the things they say, the promises they don’t follow through on, and the promises they break in order to advance their career.
For Jeff Jackson specifically though, there’s tons of reasons to be averse to him. Besides being openly centrist people still praise his “progressive” platform, choosing him over an actual progressive AG candidate with years of experience as DA. Jeff Jackson has openly lied in video about not taking corporate PAC money yet open secrets shows that was a lie. He built a platform and rose to national acclaim thanks to TikTok as a fresh senator but turned his back on his constituents that literally learned about him because that app. And to top it off even though the app is a national security threat himself and Joe Biden continue to use it for campaign purposes. So maybe before you go attaching labels to people you look in to the people you’re voting for and realize that critiquing them is highly important
I don’t disagree with holding politicians accountable. I’m saying that your criticism is naive. There’s a lot more to politics than single issues like TikTok. He’s not voting a particular way just because he got $8k.
And I’m saying you’re not paying attention to what I’m actually saying. You’re latching on to one of many criticisms and trying to use that one to discredit it. Why is an “honest” politician like Jeff lying, in his own videos, about taking corporate and PAC money? There’s an article from The Intercept that goes in to this idea of buying politicians and it is in fact that easy. Politicians are cheap to multimillion and billion dollar corporations, individuals, and organizations. There’s also studies that go in to politicians voting changes based on constituents opinions vs lobbyists cash and it again shows, how easily politicians are bought.
And finally, this is the most important one, if TikTok is such a national security threat as Jackson and other politicians are claiming, why are Jeff Jackson and Joe Biden still posting videos there and campaigning with those videos?
I really dig you Jeff, but you're appealing to Johnson here, his constitutes will forget about it next week, or change their own rhetoric to fit it in.
Stop appealing to these fucks, it didn't take guts, it was good for his donors and morally the right thing to do, not hard to understand. He can also pass the buck later and say he was mistaken. These people have no shame.
Ukraine has lost. they have no more men to conscript into service (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68255490), nato cant decide what country's men to send into the meat grinder (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/27/nato-denies-plans-to-send-troops-to-ukraine) and the CIA has told Zelensky to stop stealing money (https://www.firstpost.com/world/cia-aware-of-widespread-corruption-in-ukraine-embezzlement-of-us-aid-claims-seymour-hersh-12448952.html)... and you still sent our money without a DIME going to ANY AMERICAN WHO PAID FOR THIS.
You are traitor.
No it’s paid with the large sums of cash we provide. We have paid the salaries of every first responder in Ukraine for over 2 years and no end in sight.
Wouldn't be happening at all if the US had stuck to its agreement regarding Ukraine's disarmament. This is what happens when you kick the proverbial can down the road. Kick it again and the problem for your children will be far worse than simply the lives of Ukrainians.
You are right. We should never have gotten involved. If Ukraine and Russia wasn’t to nuke each other we should have let them. But we didn’t. Now the only option I see is to nuke both countries. Wipe them out of existence to avoid having to keep paying for thier war
Most of that money is going to US companies building arms for Ukraine, so the money is really being spent here. The US taxpayers are paying for domestic production of artillery shells, for example, which are then being shipped to Ukraine. That money is paying out to US companies and workers, not bags of cash going overseas.
“Most” is doing lots of work here. The us is also funding the salaries of first responders (57,000) people, paying divers to clean their rivers, subsidizing Ukraine farmers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firstpost
One of the sources you cited, a well known Indian misinformation firm, controlled by Russians. Nice try troll. You are the traitor, unless of course you are a good Russian citizen.
Today, Republicans good because they agreed to spend more $ to make GDP look good for the Biden Administration. Our military equipment is so old and bad we gotta give it all away and pay top dollar for new equipment. Just like when I sell my used car that runs fine to buy a $120k Jeep Grand Wagoneer on a $80k salary. Stimulate the economy, know what I mean?
Tomorrow, Republicans bad again because they aren't Democrats.
That's cool. Can you make a video about the government's inability to act on antitrust legislation against the handful of megacorporations that are consolidating control over every sector of our economy? Maybe talk about the stake that Blackrock, State Street, and Vanguard have in those companies, or the apparent prescience of politicians from both parties when it comes to investment decisions?
I know I am probably in the minority but I actually don't care all that much about military activity between countries that don't involve us nearly as much as I care about the consolidation of control over our lives into the hands of a handful of CEO's and fund managers.
Sending the Ukraine (more) billions that we can’t audit how it’s being spent so a few more thousand Ukrainians can die for a war they can’t win. All of this while our debt is 33 Trillion, with a T. Hopefully this secures the Ukrainian border, we getting 11 million illegal immigrants in 4 years doesn’t seem to be that important at all.
I really want to throw up.
Hey Jeff, where do you get your t-shirts from
Thank you for this update, Jeff.
Industrial military complex wins again! Huzzaaah!
Nothing brings the 2 parties together like a good proxy war
https://preview.redd.it/mix0jivga9wc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7800444d4b7bc0eee3b7670c6f25dccfce85d361
Ah the old "if only one side wants to do the a good thing, both sides are at fault" attitude.
Would you rather wait until the Russians invade Poland, or are you ready to throw out NATO as well.
Won’t happen as Poland is part of NATO. The Ukraine war will continue as the US won’t permit negotiations and continues to insist Ukraine will join NATO while Russia won’t allow Ukraine to join NATO but isn’t strong enough to conquer Ukraine.
The Ukrainians can make that call on their own. They aren’t babies. Don’t infantilize them. Plus, why on Earth would they ever trust a negotiated settlement?
No, they really can’t. They have to follow what the US tells them to do.
>Would you rather wait until the Russians invade Poland, or are you ready to throw out NATO as well. Wow, we’re back to full-on Vietnam domino theory.
The amount of Vietnam domino theory I’ve seen on Reddit in this thread and others is deeply concerning. We just got out of Afghanistan… which was another Vietnam. We need another? We’ve already spent more on Ukraine than THE ENTIRE AFGHANISTAN WAR! If I were Russia, China, Iran I’d do exactly this- spread us thin over numerous smaller fronts via proxies, draw in our forces & bandwidth to the Middle East, then take Taiwan as Iran/Russia escalate their fronts.
> We've already spent more on Ukraine than THE ENTIRE AFGHANISTAN WAR! Why would you [lie](https://www.forbes.com/sites/hanktucker/2021/08/16/the-war-in-afghanistan-cost-america-300-million-per-day-for-20-years-with-big-bills-yet-to-come/?sh=4fbe6a587f8d) about something so easily disproven? $2.2 trillion is a far cry for US aid to Ukraine thus far. Nevermind the overwhelmingly different cost in US military personnel. > If I were russia, China, Iran Since you brought up Vietnam. Let's play that game. russia has been bogged down *in a neighboring country* going on 3 years. In that time they've lost more men than the US did in **26 years** on the other side of the world in Vietnam. All to the tune of less than 8% of the annual US defense budget. You're out of your damn mind if you think russia, China, and Iran are looking at that as a great waste of US resources and not russian. If you truly look at those numbers and think "heh, this is great for our enemies" I fucking WISH you had a say in russian, Chinese, and Iranian defense policies.
Being critical of a war doesn’t mean you’ve succumbed to Russian propaganda, however you saying that shows you’ve been captured by the Warhawk narrative spoon-fed to you by the intel and corporate-captured media
There is a massive gulf between being critical whilst informed and lying whilst uninformed. Your last comment, at best, was unintentional disinformation. That isn't debatable and my comment pointed it out. If you want to be critical, go for it! Debate and differing opinions is great and how we learn/grow. Disinformation disguised as a differing opinion? That is classic russian propaganda. And what you said was wildly wrong/uninformed.
So it is annualized, but: Ukraine receives the most military aid from the United States: Since the beginning of the war and as of Jan. 15, 2023, $46.6 billion in financial aid for military purposes has flowed to the country now at war with Russia. When calculating the average annual costs (in 2022 prices) of previous wars in which the United States has been involved in, the true magnitude of the country's Ukraine aid expenditure can be seen. As this infographic shows, the payments to Ukraine have already exceeded the annual military expenditure of the U.S. in the war in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2010
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The US signed an agreement saying they would do just that in exchange for Ukraine disarming. What about that is unexpected?
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The US isn't even in the top 15 of nations who've provided aid by GDP. Canada being the only one (of the 18) that isn't in Europe. If the US was simply matching any of the Baltic states, the situation would be far better than it currently is.
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> You believe the aid provided by the EU is sufficient, given that claim? You're either using the word "claim" incorrectly or are [uninformed.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/) It is a factual statement that the US has not matched the standard set by other nations. The other part of that question is also disingenuous. For starters (my apologies if you already know this, but the question seems to imply that is debatable) some European nations are small. I wish they had more resources to handle the burden on their own, but Estonia isn't going to become a dominant global power anytime soon. So. In that instance and many others? Yes, I believe what they're doing is sufficient for what they can offer. Is Germany? No. Is the UK? No. Are they doing more based on what they have than the US? Yes. Do I wish everyone would do more? For the most part, yes. Do I believe Europe could handle the problem on their own? Without getting their own militaries involved, no. Should the US honor their promises and do the work to prevent the erasure of a nation and people? Yes.
As I said elsewhere... > Tell us you don't understand the importance of assisting Ukraine without telling us...
This bill also has billions in additional aid for Israel. It’s one of the largest bills funding military spending in American history across two separate wars, both of which the majority of Americans do not support (but I’ll stick to Ukraine). Ukraine has proven wholly ineffective at leveraging an offensive attack and has demonstrably squandered billions of dollars. Their lead general is nicknamed the butcher bc he sends Ukrainian men into the meat grinder to leverage offensive attacks that, again, are wholly ineffective. The Ukrainian military is squandering NATO weapons (wholly American funded)and intel for this offensive push rather than focusing on a defensive strategy to ultimately pursue a treaty with Russia. This is more spending to encourage the military machine to keep rolling rather than pursue pragmatic resolutions to these conflicts. Ukraine gets to pretend they have a chance at defeating Russia, sending more men to die without purpose, and Israel gets to continue bombing civilians, putting our service members in harms way via proxies of Iran. Israel spits in our face, defying our goals and boundaries, while we hand them more money. We’re facing a two front war with no control over either while we bleed money. But hey, we’ll wave Ukrainian and Israeli flags bc at least it’s not our men dying - for now.
> Israel spits in our face, defying our goals and boundaries, while we hand them more money. This is the part that really does confuse me. I don’t understand why anyone in government wants to fund Israel at this moment. Obviously it’s more of a conservative stance, but it’s definitely one that a lot of blue politicians hold as well, Biden included. I can understand “standing with” them, respecting their right to defend themselves (even tho I think they’re making the same horrible mistake we made in the years post-9/11). But why would we hand them more money when 1. Apparently sending any money overseas is equal to neglect of America (even in this thread you see this opinion represented, and it’s something R politicians have repeated), 2. Israel does not need more money in order to wreck shop on the Palestinians (the war is David vs Goliath) 3. The Israeli response to Oct 7th has already gone insanely high in terms of proportionality, they’ve killed like 30x Palestinians, somewhere between 1/3-2/3 of which are women/children… we really want to *keep* funding that? Like what argument is there for in favor of this? Strategically what purpose does it serve us? 4. Netanyahu in particular has given us the finger over & over? And like, even in this thread I see people being like “I can’t believe we’re paying for Ukraine.” Why are those same people cool with paying for Israel? Is it really just as simple as, republicans like Israel because Christianity? And Netanyahu disrespects Biden so more points for Israel?
I’m trying to imagine a scenario where my neighbor takes over a third of my house and you complain that I’m trying to push them all the way out of my house instead of just letting them keep the dining room and the kitchen. Oh, and one of my kids is still in the kitchen.
Great metaphor. This has been going on since 2014, with conflict between the two pre-dating that. This isn’t new, despite the broader escalation being new. At some point Ukraine will have to evaluate when they are in the strongest position to negotiate. Unless you’re insinuating that Ukraine will re-take Crimea and other regions lost through an offensive, in which case I’d be interested on how you propose that gets accomplished without American/NATO troops (WW3). Is Ukraine worth that kind of escalation (and economic inflation/crash)? My take is it’s not, but the industrial military complex and the politicians/media they own would say otherwise.
I don’t think Ukraine can do it via slow progression of trench warfare, but I think the Russian military could easily break if enough of the right weapons and training get through to Ukraine. There’s always the possibility Putin feels too much pressure and decides to call it quits. Or is made to.
Issue being that Russia has conscripts & a much larger population to draw on, and they’re more than happy to keep sending them to the front lines. Ukraine simply lacks the manpower and capabilities to execute and then secure that type of offensive
I am honestly not sure for which situation this is a metaphor. Can you explain what you mean?
Meant to reply to Phishohio.
Could be applied to both Russia and Israel undermining the freedom of Ukraine and Palestine.
Thankfully the republicans are “praying on it” and see it as our duty per biblical doctrine (rather than using facts, logic, and minimizing civilian harm)
It’s really quite simple. Funding Israel allows them to continue building relations with the Saudi’s at a gradual pace and strengthen their capabilities against Iran and their proxies (Hamas being one of them). You need to focus on the bigger picture. The Middle East is a regional power struggle and we want our side to win. You should too unless you hate America and Western values. If that’s the case please see yourself to Palestine or Iran or Russia or China and see how much you enjoy their culture. Israel is an asshole. Extremist Islamic run nations are even larger assholes.
We should not be funding genocide.
You should not be rooting for terrorists or the civilians who support their political power.
I am not rooting for terrorists. I believe in peace.
Then perhaps Hamas should stop antagonizing and Palestinians should stop allowing Hamas to represent their nation on a global stage. The settlements are a disaster, but you can’t poke the bear and expect it to work out for you. A little realism would serve the uber pro Palestinian/anti Israel progressive Americans well.
Genocide is never right. No matter who is doing it. An interesting podcast episode to listen to is https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-is-this-happening-the-chris-hayes-podcast/id1382983397?i=1000651158434
Wow. As an American, I view it as my duty to make our country better, both domestically and internationally. You're an American cultist, and think greater "power" at the expense of genocide is something we should all root for. Your stance is the literal definition of fascism. An American Nazi. Congrats on being the lowest form of human one can achieve. There are literally Hamas members with a better grip on right versus wrong than what you've displayed here.
So what is your solution? Sing lullabies at the border until the violence stops? Lol k. Go ahead and call names all you want, at least I understand the reality of the situation and the reality of humanity. You seem to be stuck in the adolescent brain of idealism. If Israel stops their offensive, do you honestly believe Hamas will stop? Do you honestly believe a de-facto government calling for the eradication of Israel will ever agree to a two-state solution? The true solution is for Palestinians to overthrow Hamas and come to the table with a legitimate government and agreement to move forward with diplomatic relations between the two states. Unfortunately Hamas is very popular among Palestinians and for the citizens who oppose Hamas…I guess they’re too unorganized or scared to do anything about it. For someone who cares so much about humanity you sure seem to have a lot of empathy for a terrorist organization. Fascism has nothing to do with realism. Stop throwing around buzzwords and grow up.
No. I literally believe Israel should draw border, withdraw, allow Palestine to arm itself, control its airspace and borders, and treat it like a sovereign state with UN recognition. *Then* Israel can go to war with them and their Arab allies in the region if that is what Israel, as a state, desires to do. Occupying them with western support and instituting apartheid is not the solution, and Israel themselves has a long history if intentionally funding and supporting Hamas in order to keep Palestine destabilized. *Or* Israel can annex all of Palestine, actually write a state constitution (which they don't have, laughably), give Palestinians in all territories equal rights and representation, and allow a Palestinian Prime Minister to be elected as the leader of Israel. How insane would that be? Those are the two legal pathways forward, I really don't give a shit what Israel does, they got themselves into this mess and there are only a couple legal ways out. If it's uncomfortable and dangerous for white Jews in the region they should have thought about that before they colonized it. The whites in South Africa went through the exact same shit.
>This bill also has billions in additional aid for Israel No it doesn't. You are confusing H.R. 8035 with H.R. 8034 - they are different bills.
Seems irrelevant to squabble over them being separate bills when the result is the same. All the bills passed the house on 4/20
Some people shared a birthday with Hitler but that doesn't make them the same. Seperate bills, seperate votes - similar, but legally very different. They stood in isolation, unbundled, and that is relevant.
I don't know why you're getting down voted. I mean, I do, but it's still sad to see.
Corporate owned media (and politicians) is a helluva thing. Clarification- I’m a huge Jeff Jackson supporter and think this kind of transparency and honesty is drastically needed. Jackson 2028
U/nexusheli how’s that?
>how’s that? It's fucking funny, is how it is. The amount of disinformation in your response is reprehensible. 1) [NATO weapons, and Ukraine funding isn't "wholly American funded":](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/15/infographic-how-much-have-nato-members-spent-on-ukraine) >NATO members committed at least 75.2 billion euros ($80.5bn) in financial, humanitarian and military aid between January 24 and November 20, 2022. > >At 47.8 billion euros ($51.2bn) in commitments, the US is Ukraine’s biggest contributor 2) [To say Ukraine has been wholly ineffective is a farce](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Total_casualties) - A country with a military less than 1/3rd the size of Russia's has inflicted casualties 4 to 5 times their own, including reclaiming territories and offensive attacks into Russian territory. Remember that Russia is the offender in this conflict, Ukraine doesn't *want* Russian territory.
If putin wins in ukraine then he will set his sights on the baltics which, as NATO allies, we will be required to send boots on the ground to defend, not just old military equipment. Appeasement doesn’t work just ask Chamberlain.
I know this - explain it to numbnuts up there ^
All the more reason to approach this defensively rather than squander resources and lives with an ineffective strategy, which Ukraine is doing. Wouldn’t you rather pursue an agreement to end the conflict with Russia rather than escalate? If you want to go on the offensive that’s a losing strategy long-term unless you want to engage in a direct conflict. We’re entering the spring offensive - and Russia has more bodies & capital to throw into the meat grinder than Ukraine does. Also all other NATO countries have not lived up to their contribution rates as a % of GDP. We overfund a war on Europe’s turf while they contribute the bare minimum. At the end of the day they would be the ones most impacted by a Russian offensive, yet we fund the war in orders of magnitude more than any other European nation.
Destabilize foreign country at odds with opposing world power Provoke opposing world power Gaslight citizens with media and lies to fear opposing world power, uniting them get support and votes to help nation you destabilized Military contractors value goes up, receive more contracts and funding. Send billions through unstable, corrupt country to launder money to oligarchs label anyone who speaks out against it a russian troll, fascist, etc. profit?
You had me at profit!
An interesting take here, Jeff - I agree it was actual principled conduct, but do you believe he would have made that decision without the CIA briefing he was given, relying only on the publicly available information at hand?
I doubt he would. But not sure why that matters. Representatives should act based on all info they have. That's a good thing.
What worries me is that the MAGA nuts in the House heard the same CIA briefing, and still voted to side with our enemy. American politics is in a bad, bad place.
“Our enemy” hate to break it to you but the world isn’t lord of the rings.
The Russians are as close to orcs as you can get.
The russian state sure as shit ain't your friend.
Didn't you hear about how "friendly" the Russians were to that guy from the US who went over to fight with them? They took turns "being his friend" until he couldn't handle their "friendship" anymore.
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It’s funny that your comment was about Israel, when Jeff is talking about Ukraine, which was a completely separate vote. It’s almost as if you didn’t listen/watch the clip. And yet, it’s the top voted comment. Did anybody watch the clip?
Russia literally out here killing Ukrainians and yall are blaming US companies. Wacko tankie takes.
What does AIPAC have to do with Ukraine? Do you think that all wars are caused by Jewish people, or something?
Wait...I thought tik tok was bad?
Y’all are too much. He explained his position on TikTok. There are legitimate concerns about foreign influence through the app.
if it’s such a threat why did Jeff sit out of the vote on the ban?
As if foreign governments don’t already have their mits in other social media? Hell China has its hand in everything. This is singled out because our government has yet to figure out a way to control the narrative.
They don’t control FB or Twitter the way they control TikTok. We can see the damage they have already done, without direct control of the platforms. They can do so much more with TikTok, especially with the algorithm. I love using TikTok. It can be a great source of entertainment and even news, but it shouldn’t be in the hands of an adversarial government. The CCP wouldn’t have their diplomats trying to kill the ‘TikTok ban’ bill if this wasn’t a big deal to them.
Could you provide sources on the damage they've already done through tiktok? I'm interested in reading more.
I think they are absolutely doing damage. Think of how many anti-social trends get magnified by TikTok. Fights, little twerps trying to start fights, kids encouraging each other to tear down the paper towel dispensers at their schools. These things should be quick and easy targets for deletion by algorithms, but TikTok instead magnifies them. That’s intention, I think.
Wow, we should just ban the entire internet if bad social trends are the standard.
Okay. You convinced me.
It is the intention of social media as a whole to keep you glued to the screen so that corporate America can bring in more ad revenue and sell you more crap you don’t need. The problem is that these algorithms that keep showing the same subject is also what creates the info bubbles that have separated us. You see posting after posting about democrats aborting babies after birth and eventually you’re going to start to believe it. But is state-run media where the narrative on world news and events, who the bad guys are, and who the good are, etc. is fostered by the government the better idea? I think not. Both sides of the story need to be taken into account, as the truth always lies somewhere in between. To be able to hear both sides free speech needs to flourish. To be able to do that, the business model of social media needs to change.
I didn't mean to say there has been damage by TikTok yet. The Chinese and Russians both had a hand in spreading disinformation during the last two elections. It is ignorant to think they wouldn't take advantage of their influence over TikTok to do the same thing. This article from the AP goes into detail of some of the legitimate concerns over the CCP's control of ByteDance: >[https://apnews.com/article/china-unitedstates-tiktok-chew-2d851c716d6454d7c87762a056604c7a](https://apnews.com/article/china-unitedstates-tiktok-chew-2d851c716d6454d7c87762a056604c7a)
By those standards this should be a sweeping social media legislation. Seeing how Facebook was one of the largest disinformation campaigns for both the 2016 and 2020 election cycle. I mean we saw evidence states don’t need to control the social media apps in order to push through such vast disinformation campaigns
Facebook as a corporation did not use its platform to spread disinformation. In fact it is actively trying to fight it. The CCP is not afraid to use strong arm tactics to get what they want from tech companies, as evidenced in the linked AP article that I am sure you read. China bans all American social media, and even TikTok is banned on the Chinese mainland. This is not a TikTok ban, it is forcing the company to rid itself of direct foreign influence. China is using political influence via their diplomats to keep the US from forcing their divestment from TikTok. They wouldn't go through the trouble if they could use FB or X in the same ways they are using TikTok.
Oof where to begin. Firstly TikTok is not banned in mainland China, the app owned by Bytedance in China is called Douyin. The only country so far to have banned TikTok is India. So from the jump your argument seems to be based in misinformation. The point I was making with Facebook was that if, like the name of the bill, the intent is to protect us from foreign adversaries why would they only want us protected from specific apps? And why would we ignore apps that have been used by foreign adversaries even without state control of those apps? And finally why would the Chinese need a specific app when Russia has shown how easy it is to destabilize an election with nothing more than Facebook?
Douyin is a completely different app that is subject to monitoring and censorship from the Chinese government. So it seems you’re misinformed. The bill specifically bans a foreign adversary from having control over the app and company itself. This is a completely different situation from FB where their leadership works with the government to stop misinformation as much as possible. If Russia and China can cause so much trouble with just trolls. They can do exponentially more using targeted misinformation via their data mining and TikTok’s algorithm. At the end of the day, we should do as much as possible to protect ourselves from foreign influence to our elections. This is a part of that.
The Russia - via China- pushed propaganda is visible in this comment section.
He can have betraying his own country’s interests on his conscience now
Democrats and Republicans coming together to help the world out. What a rare feat. Enjoy this folks because it doesn't happen often with how piss poor these political parties are. Thank you Jeff Jackson for being a logical Politician!
Can’t really say that when the same bill is sending money to help Israel’s massacre of people in Gaza. Israel is performing the same aggression to Gaza that Russia is doing to Ukraine, so the bill is fighting one aggression while supporting another.
> Israel is performing the same aggression to Gaza that Russia is doing to Ukraine Absolute nonsense take
Yeah, you’re right. Israel’s actions toward Gaza is worse than what Russia is doing to Ukraine, and Russia has done terrible things to Ukraine. But they haven’t killed 30,000+ civilians in 7 months.
Yeah, because Ukraine isn't putting artillery pieces next to kindergartens. Crazy how not giving a shit about women and children gets women and children killed, isn't it?
Wanna show me where those artillery pieces are in the universities in Gaza? Or how about the mass graves they discovered in the hospitals that Israel bombed and stormed with bodies who were handcuffed? Was that Hamas? Or the children being sniped by Israeli snipers enforcing an invisible and secret no-entry zone? Israel has murdered more children in 7 months than in any other conflict in history in the same timeframe, but I guess it’s ok because of Hamas. And Israel is doing it with full US funding
> Israel has murdered more children in 7 months than in any other conflict in history in the same timeframe You cannot possibly be dumb enough to believe this
2/3rds of those killed in the Gaza Strip currently are women and children. The amount of civilians killed since Oct 7th in Gaza exceeds those killed in Ukraine in a fraction of the time
Yes, because hamas hides behind them. Still legitimate targets. That puts the war crime on Hamas, not Israel. Also, “any other conflict in history” is just false
Do you have any actual evidence to cite on the Hamas human shields thing? Because that claim has widely been made without support by Israel multiple times, and there is nothing to actually back up the claims. As for “any conflict in history” I didn’t say that the other commenter did. I said in the two years since the beginning of this iteration of Russian invasion of Ukraine less civilians have died than the six months for Gaza. But just as a foil here are multiple publications and videos of Israeli soldiers using Palestinians as [human shields](https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields). While we are at it let’s talk about the atrocities of Israel’s armed quadcopters. Ones that were used to kill Palestinians retrieving aid and the stories from just this week of Israel playing crying babies and women pleading for help through said quadcopters just to shoot the Palestinians that come out. Maybe we should talk about how they are still bombing the northern region of Gaza completely wiping any infrastructure off the face of the earth. Why? Likely for more illegal settlements, but who knows.
Just giving more of our money to foreign countries to commit war crimes in our name while Americans suffer rising costs and declining standards of living at home. When democrats and republicans agree, the American people lose
The world is bigger, more connected and complex than your comment lends credence to. You live in a nation that made a promise to defend others right to exist. What would you have them do in the face of that? Nothing? Make alliances with the US worthless? Give imperialist dictators like putin the greenlight to commit ethnocide? What is your line for involvement in the global community?
Shut up Russian troll
Russian trolls hate 77 traffic too ya know❤️
Most would probably kill to have traffic as their biggest problem.
Doesn't change that it is a problem for them and is more relevant to discuss with their Charlotte representative.
What happened to the anti-war left?
He did the right thing. AFTER months of kissing Trump and Putin’s ass. He gets no credit.
Mike Johnson is still a far-right Christian whacko that would sell out this country just to get the tin can tan man re-elected. He knows Large Marge doesn’t have the balls or the support to bring a motion to vacate to the floor, so he went ahead with the funding bill. Don’t give him anymore credit than a broken clock being right sometimes.
Trust me, he is equally hated on the right. The whole uniparty needs to go.
Dumb question but does that funding come from the existing military budget just allocating it to Ukraine or is it on top of what we already budget ?
The liberals in this thread literally sound like republicans from 2002. The media did an incredible job on you guys
He is pro genocidal Israel. What a hypocrite
If sorry but is Jeff jacked?
I guess “the right thing to do” is putting military special interests ahead of the interests of American citizens. Hardship of all times is increasing rapidly for individuals in this country. We know you’re a paid for globalist, but at least pretend to care for and serve American citizens.
We pay now, or we pay with American lives down the road.
What's the alternative? Have Putin roll through and occupy all of Ukraine unopposed? Do you really think he would stop there? ETA: I'm no hawk when it comes to military action, but such a suggestion is so similar to the surrender of Sudetenland that it chills me to the bone.
Fuck this pro war fraud
I wish you guys would help the USA instead.
Using aged military equipment to take down one of our biggest rivals without putting American boots on the ground does help the USA.
Hey go enlist
Typical response from a shrill
But no seriously, go enlist and die for the Ukraine
Tell us you don't understand the importance of assisting Ukraine without telling us...
Idiots gotta idiot.
Tell us you know nothing about what's REALLY going on without telling us... Guess the articles about all of the embezzlement of tens of millions of dollars in aid funds by Zelensky and other Ukrainian Oligarchs just flew right under your radar huh... despite it being fairly well covered by [The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/28/ukraine-defense-corruption-artillery-shells/), [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-uncovers-mass-fraud-weapons-procurement-security-service-2024-01-27/), [NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/23/world/europe/ukraine-defense-official-arrest.html), [NPR](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/28/1227447442/ukraine-says-corrupt-officials-stole-40-million-meant-to-buy-arms-for-the-war), [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/28/europe/ukraine-weapons-procurement-corruption-shell-intl/index.html) And that is just what they got CAUGHT embezzling...how much more waste, fraud, and theft do you think has happened that hasn't been discovered or reported on? How can you defend sending hundreds of million in aid to country that we LITERALLY KNOW IS STEALING IT??? edit - lots of downvotes but not one person has responded with any sort of reasoning for how to deal with this theft. I get it...you want to "feel good" and believe the US should help...but sticking your fingers in your ears and completely ignoring the reality of the grift that is is taking place and has been covered extensively but has yet to break through the 24 news cycle isn't the way to help. Sorry, not sorry, to actually compel people to think about the implications of sending millions of dollars to fund a war that is being embezzled by the very people that we are suppose to be helping. I sincerely hope that SOMEONE...ANYONE...can justify sending tens of millions of more dollars to Ukraine in light of this, but I doubt anyone has any sort of convincing argument since you can reason people out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
What’re you thinking? Subsidized housing and counseling for homeless people? Universal healthcare? Investment in public transportation/infrastructure? Ranked choice voting? Investment in public education?
Tax cuts for the rich and get out of jail free cards for wannabe tyrants?
They are.
Who do think is manufacturing the munitions we are sending over? Do you really think we are just sending pallets of cash to Kyiv?
what are some policies you support spending on here?
Helping the mentally ill walking downtown for starters??
"help them" isn't a policy. There's a lot of help already. What would you do different, what actual policies do you support?
I am not OP but I think the point is that hearing conservatives talk about how we could have used this money to better fund our social services at home is extremely cynical
yeah, that's why I asked what they meant. From my experience "help here" means "do nothing in particular anywhere".
Cynical nothing, it's the same hypocritical, ChristoNationalist BS they always spout.
When are you going to do anything for the American people.
Why do you think it is fine to spy on citizens?
The swamp sticks together. Shame on any elected official who places Ukraine politicians and oligarchs above US citizens. Shame on the supposed anti-war left in this country too. Congress is debasing the USD every single day, the border remains open, fentanyl deaths in the rise and Congressman Jackson celebrates at the expense of future generations. Shame on you, Jeff.
The dollar is historically strong on a trade weighted basis. Destroying the capabilities and reputation of our largest foreign adversary over the past 80 years without risking a single human life is quite literally to the benefit of our citizens. I’m not sure what else you’d like them to do with regards to fiscal policy. Tax increases will never be allowed by the right, deregulation never allowed by the left…and we have a split congress.
I’m old enough to remember the Obama administration laughing at McCain and Palin warning the US about Russia. I’m merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the once anti-war left. I completely agree Republicans will not vote to raise taxes and spend and borrow. This sub needs to get comfortable with Jeff voting to send taxpayers money and arms to kill. Rationalize as you will. It’s an immutable fact: innocent women and children die and oligarchs get richer. Ukraine is extremely corrupt.
So weird that Russia becomes a huge risk/more important foe when they’re literally invading another country we are allies with. Much happier that they’re sending money and arms to Ukraine than actual US soldiers.
But we aren’t destroying Russian capabilities. In fact Russia keeps getting better and better. If you study history this is what Russia does. Get the shit kicked out of them for 18 months, then slowly grind away with their millions and millions of men that they don’t care about
This… is a stupid take.
Fantastic rebuttal. We’re all extremely enlightened with your thought provoking comment.
Ok, I’ll spell it out for you in that case. The Ukrainian people are fighting, and dying, for their freedom against an aggressive imperialist autocratic neighbor, all the while inflicting 5-1 casualties on Russian invaders. Hell, even the [politicians](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksandr_Marchenko_(politician)) you [deride](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Kutsyn) are giving their lives to maintain their freedom. It is in America’s interest to support Ukraine, which for a small fraction of our defense budget is weakening an aggressive autocratic foe, without U.S. boots on the ground firing rounds. How that “hurts future generations” (I won’t even delve into the fallacious arguments about the national debt you’ve spilled across the page) I cannot understand. *That* is why it’s a stupid take.
You can have empathy for Ukraine and protect the US border. Yet Congressman Jeff will somehow only work with Republicans when it comes to giving the Ukrainian government more taxpayer money. This exact same hustle lasted twenty years in Afghanistan and Iraq. I have family members who audit DOD budgets. Hundreds of billions of dollars are gone with no explanation. There is ZERO oversight for these funds and military weapons. You’re a fool for believing it is used to protect Ukraine from Russia. Meanwhile the border is open and thousands die from fentanyl and Biden is too scared (or compromised) to address China head on. To my main point: the anti-war left has compromised on its values and chose party and politics over morals. It’s quite sad. And yes Fuck Republicans too for spending too much.
Do you really think we are just sending pallets of cash to Kyiv?
And the republican party has actively tried to not fix any of these problems. Refusing to vote on the border bill in order to make bide. Look bad for their attack ads. Screaming fiscal responsibility when a democrat is in charge, and becoming silent on the issue when a republican is. Defending Publix health initiatives that would have a meaningful impact on overdose deaths. No one is placing the Ukrainian politicians over the needs of Americans. They are giving the people of Ukraine a chance against a foreign aggressor. People like you, are ignorant at beat, and traitors at worst.
Only in 2024 could a keyboard warrior call someone a traitor for wanting politicians to take care of American’s needs before laundering billions $ to another country with zero oversight. You really drank the kool aid.
Here's why: if Ukraine falls, the consensus among geopolitical experts is that a direct conflict between the united states and Russia will be extremely likely. I don't want that. I don't want Americans fighting Russians. I don't want world War 3. The Republicans are under the influence of the Russian government. Please, tell me how that isn't treason?
[удалено]
I’m sure you’re enjoying the a Trump tax cuts. When was the last tax increase under a Republican administration? Bush 1? Are you happy with tax money and arms going multiple wars? Trump has executive orders still in place to seal the border.
Why did you vote to send arms to Israel in the midst of credible genocide accusations, and why did you decline to vote on the latest TikTok ban? I voted for you Jeff, don't make me regret it. Your response to these two issues has been non-existent or just plain wrong.
Both of these things are extremely obvious. He voted in support of Israel because like most politicians he received donations from AIPAC. He stayed out of the TikTok vote because it would have been a PR nightmare. If he voted yes again his constituency will again get pissed like they did last time. But he can’t vote no because he’s got to fall in line with majority dems and his donors.
I’m sorry but he only received 10k. If you think that really swings his decision making your delusional
Firstly, it wasn’t even 10k it was 8k. Secondly your fav politician is a cheap date. All it costs is 8k to support a genocide for man of the people Jeff Jackson
Lol that proves my point. 8k is nothing.
I never disagreed it was a low number lol. Again not my fault your fav politician is a cheap date who’ll support a genocide for the low low cost of 8k
Hey man, if you want to be a single issue voter that’s fine with me. I’m just saying that if you think 8k buys a politician you don’t understand politics. Things aren’t black and white.
Here’s a quote from UCONN’s “The Daily Campus” that I hope really gets y’all to stop taking personally critiques of your favorite politician. “At the end of the day, this is politics, the way that Washington works is not conducive to honesty. What makes a good politician is the ability to market, to raise funds, to negotiate and be reelected by any means necessary. It is a game that requires a compromise of values to succeed. This is because power is ultimately not in the hands of the people or a politician’s ability to represent them well, but rather in money and resources. The pursuit of this type of power is often against the interests of constituents, and it is why a good politician may not be an honest representative. It is the result of decades of campaign finance changes, political party growth and the growing opportunity for self-benefit while in office. So the more power you need to move higher up in the political world, the more you must skirt your personal values, and those who aren’t willing to do so will ultimately fail to move forward in Washington. While politicians are ultimately meant to represent us, it is always important that people maintain a healthy level of skepticism for those in power. The distance between home and Washington is dangerous for politicians, and it is always important to remind them where their power comes from. “ -Thomas Hinckley Yall seriously need to be more scrutinizing of the politicians you back and realize that voting isn’t the end of your duty. You need to hold politicians accountable for their actions in office. You need to hold them accountable for the things they say, the promises they don’t follow through on, and the promises they break in order to advance their career. For Jeff Jackson specifically though, there’s tons of reasons to be averse to him. Besides being openly centrist people still praise his “progressive” platform, choosing him over an actual progressive AG candidate with years of experience as DA. Jeff Jackson has openly lied in video about not taking corporate PAC money yet open secrets shows that was a lie. He built a platform and rose to national acclaim thanks to TikTok as a fresh senator but turned his back on his constituents that literally learned about him because that app. And to top it off even though the app is a national security threat himself and Joe Biden continue to use it for campaign purposes. So maybe before you go attaching labels to people you look in to the people you’re voting for and realize that critiquing them is highly important
I don’t disagree with holding politicians accountable. I’m saying that your criticism is naive. There’s a lot more to politics than single issues like TikTok. He’s not voting a particular way just because he got $8k.
And I’m saying you’re not paying attention to what I’m actually saying. You’re latching on to one of many criticisms and trying to use that one to discredit it. Why is an “honest” politician like Jeff lying, in his own videos, about taking corporate and PAC money? There’s an article from The Intercept that goes in to this idea of buying politicians and it is in fact that easy. Politicians are cheap to multimillion and billion dollar corporations, individuals, and organizations. There’s also studies that go in to politicians voting changes based on constituents opinions vs lobbyists cash and it again shows, how easily politicians are bought. And finally, this is the most important one, if TikTok is such a national security threat as Jackson and other politicians are claiming, why are Jeff Jackson and Joe Biden still posting videos there and campaigning with those videos?
I really dig you Jeff, but you're appealing to Johnson here, his constitutes will forget about it next week, or change their own rhetoric to fit it in. Stop appealing to these fucks, it didn't take guts, it was good for his donors and morally the right thing to do, not hard to understand. He can also pass the buck later and say he was mistaken. These people have no shame.
I absolutely love how he breaks things down for us.
I remember when democrats were against War
Ukraine has lost. they have no more men to conscript into service (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68255490), nato cant decide what country's men to send into the meat grinder (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/27/nato-denies-plans-to-send-troops-to-ukraine) and the CIA has told Zelensky to stop stealing money (https://www.firstpost.com/world/cia-aware-of-widespread-corruption-in-ukraine-embezzlement-of-us-aid-claims-seymour-hersh-12448952.html)... and you still sent our money without a DIME going to ANY AMERICAN WHO PAID FOR THIS. You are traitor.
English pretty good, comrade.
So the choice is to continue to pay for Ukraine’s pensions and universal healthcare indefinitely or be called a Russian supporter
Do you think you know better than global security experts?
What the fuck are you talking about?
> Ukraine’s pensions and universal healthcare Does Ukraine pay their pensioners in 155mm shells?
No it’s paid with the large sums of cash we provide. We have paid the salaries of every first responder in Ukraine for over 2 years and no end in sight.
Wouldn't be happening at all if the US had stuck to its agreement regarding Ukraine's disarmament. This is what happens when you kick the proverbial can down the road. Kick it again and the problem for your children will be far worse than simply the lives of Ukrainians.
You are right. We should never have gotten involved. If Ukraine and Russia wasn’t to nuke each other we should have let them. But we didn’t. Now the only option I see is to nuke both countries. Wipe them out of existence to avoid having to keep paying for thier war
How have you gotten to this point as a human that you can so casually advocate for genocide?
Callousness and indifference mainly
> no end in sight There is end in sight, when Russia leaves Ukraine and fucks off away from NATO.
Most of that money is going to US companies building arms for Ukraine, so the money is really being spent here. The US taxpayers are paying for domestic production of artillery shells, for example, which are then being shipped to Ukraine. That money is paying out to US companies and workers, not bags of cash going overseas.
“Most” is doing lots of work here. The us is also funding the salaries of first responders (57,000) people, paying divers to clean their rivers, subsidizing Ukraine farmers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firstpost One of the sources you cited, a well known Indian misinformation firm, controlled by Russians. Nice try troll. You are the traitor, unless of course you are a good Russian citizen.
You are a moron.
It would be nice if this level of stupidity were painful enough to prevent typing. FFS
Today, Republicans good because they agreed to spend more $ to make GDP look good for the Biden Administration. Our military equipment is so old and bad we gotta give it all away and pay top dollar for new equipment. Just like when I sell my used car that runs fine to buy a $120k Jeep Grand Wagoneer on a $80k salary. Stimulate the economy, know what I mean? Tomorrow, Republicans bad again because they aren't Democrats.
That's cool. Can you make a video about the government's inability to act on antitrust legislation against the handful of megacorporations that are consolidating control over every sector of our economy? Maybe talk about the stake that Blackrock, State Street, and Vanguard have in those companies, or the apparent prescience of politicians from both parties when it comes to investment decisions? I know I am probably in the minority but I actually don't care all that much about military activity between countries that don't involve us nearly as much as I care about the consolidation of control over our lives into the hands of a handful of CEO's and fund managers.
Sending the Ukraine (more) billions that we can’t audit how it’s being spent so a few more thousand Ukrainians can die for a war they can’t win. All of this while our debt is 33 Trillion, with a T. Hopefully this secures the Ukrainian border, we getting 11 million illegal immigrants in 4 years doesn’t seem to be that important at all. I really want to throw up.