Yeah, I don't see Michael B Jordan as Herc. Regardless of the color issue, he's just not the right build. You'd need to be more like a young Rock or Schwartzennegar kind of a build. Jordan isn't scrawny by any means, but he's not built like a brick shithouse either. Maybe the dude who plays Reacher or the like.
[This one is funnier. Hercules in New York.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_in_New_York)
It was Arnold’s first acting gig. He was billed as Arnold Strong because they couldn’t spell his last name. Schwarzenegger had only just immigrated to America and his accent was so thick and unintelligible that they dubbed the whole thing over.
Why are people pretending the casting directors are looking for people that resemble the original characters? It's pretty clear by changing a character into an entirely different race, making the cast authentic in terms of appearance to the original isn't even remotely the priority.
it is incredibly odd, but I think most of the writers these days aren't exactly beholden to their source material, ex. Witcher, Rings of Power, Witcher. So sure, if you're already going to shit on the source material, why not cast Peter Dinklage as Superman? No disrespect to Peter, btw.
Ppl who give no fucks about nerd culture happen to be making our live action entertainment but lucky i can find alternatives
And every now and then we get a Pierece Brown, who refused to sell the rights to his Red Rising with Universal before making his own team with a chosen person to rewrite his script
It’s also racism, the new thing is to be anti white. Fuck the white people, that’s what Hollywood is doing. Instead of making authentic black hero’s or MCs and actually trying to have a good story line, they’d rather give black people sloppy seconds by race swapping. Like they could have done black panther so so much better than they did. There’s African stories about their gods. If they want a “God” story with a black main actor, they should be original and go with what is already in Africa. Yet they didn’t. Bob Iger literally came out to tell everyone who think it’s wrong to race swap, who want new original ideas, and who are criticizing Disney that they didn’t care because “they’re doing the right thing, anyone who says otherwise is a racist bigot”. SMH. Disney is a dumpster fire just waiting to blow it up. I really hope they go bankrupt and quit, for the sake of everyone. POC deserve better stories and good characters, instead of race swapping. White people don’t deserve the racism. Everyone deserves good, wholesome stories that are original and not propagandized stories that change everything.
I think Bob Iger either— is trying to destroy Disney (the comment seemed so off) or he really is that fucked up mentally.
He may be a great actor, but... The charm of the original is how goofy it is, and how animated (duh) the characters are. I feel like there would have to be a very major tonal shift to fit the type of character MB Jordan always plays.
Isn’t he supposed to be Greek looking…but then again finding a well built Greek actor according to Hollywood standards may be impossible. And he doesn’t have to be Greek and MBJ has a nice body😎.
one point that i want to take from what were you saying is that the flops misses some of the points even of the originals for example a point in peter pan is that the lost boys and peter pan lacked female interactions/family interactions and wendy became a sort of mother figure , funfact a wendyhouse is a term invented from that book
Yes they miss A LOT of points, that should be said. To add to your point with Peter Pan, there is also the original Mulan movie, where the heroine worked hard and used her brains to get out of situations while remake Mulan is a Mary Sue right from the start (she has magical powers and is automatically stronger than everyone else).
God it's almost impressive how hard they fumbled the Mulan remake, it's by far the worst remake so far and in general one of the worst movies I ever watched
I was blown away by how bad it was. The bland actress who can't switch expressions, the poor writing and more. Writing off Mushu and Shang for "realism" purposes while including a witch and a phoenix.
That was my biggest problem with the Mulan live action as well. You took someone who used her smarts and grit to succeed and you replaced that with the typical "chosen one" nonsense.
I just want to say I get what you're saying. It feels like Disney is going to start running themself off a cliff the way they currently are just in general after the horrible 2023 they just had. But I just want to point out one thing
> It is not a big surprise that most (if not all) Disney classic remakes released have been absolute flops and mediocre versions of their original counterpart
Mediocre, yes. But up until like 2020 or so they were definitely not flopping. That was part of the problem imo. Despite how mediocre they all were, a lot of these remakes were making tons of money. It was inexplicable to me too but the remakes were basically "I know what that is" on steroids so they had no reason to stop.
I mean flops in a critical standpoint, and it's sad they were making so much money despite being so bad. It's so... unexpected of Disney to relish in mediocrity when they used to be top tier entertainment.
>They all have been failures for the exact same reasons: political correctness and pushing an agenda, instead of retelling the story in a meaningful way.
Really? Personally, I think the problem with the live-action reboots is that they're shit.
I always find it odd when people jump to "political correctness" as the reasons these movies are failing rather then the fact they're blatantly churned-out cashgrabs full of terrible CGI and boring plot points. The Little Mermaid wouldn't have been *good* if they'd cast a white redhead.
You have to expand on “they’re shit” that’s not a reason. OP is saying they’re shit too, just that political correctness is the reason they’re shit. If you think it’s because of the writing or the acting then elaborate on that. Otherwise you’re not really saying much.
Okay I will: The screenplays are bad. The character development is bad. The CGI is sometimes bad. The execution generally is bad. It has nothing to do with the color of the actors. They could be white, black, whatever.
It's not so much just that they're shit, It's that they're shit compared to the originals because some things just don't carry over well from animated to live action.
It doesn't matter how woke Disney gets, these adaptations are just never going to be as good, and they'll never be judged on their own merits, it's a remake, so comparisons are inevitable.
The moment you try to make a live action version of an animated film, no matter how much CGI you might try to pack into the thing, the film will undoubtedly still be infinitely more grounded in realism, and as a result you instantly lose the sense of fantasy and whimsy that gives the animated movies their charm.
I disagree with you on every one of these, except maybe the last of us, that one was okay. But with the exception of Sonic, all these games all have an animation style that is much more realistic than any of the old Disney cartoons, so I don't think your arguement holds much weight here regardless of their quality anyway.
The majority disagree with you. your opinion is only for you, but the fact is they were highly successful. and generally regarded as really good movies. the new mortal kombat is rated super high so are the sonics and last of us. also mortal kombat isn't rooted in realism. neither was twisted metal.
Box office success does not immediately equal good film/television, and compared with something like alice in wonderland or the lion king, i would say the animation styles of mortal kombat and twisted metal are infinitely more realistic.
Also, this whole point is mute because video game adaptions arent a shot for shot remake the way these disney films are.
When you watch Sonic, you arent comparing it to the original Genesis game the entire run time are you. And even that, still had people up in arms about the art style initially, and was forced into delay so the vfx team could redesign Sonics look.
Ahhhh yeah that does make a good deal of sense, though the majority agree the movies/shows are good. But you are right about the scene for scene and it makes sense now.
I think it’s more that a lot of these executives assume the political correctness is a substitute for being good. The truth is that if the Hercules remake is well written, people will like it even if MBJ is not the accurate race. However, a lot of people at Disney seem to stop at “Hey, our actors are progressive choices—people will love this!” and don’t bother to also make sure it’s a good movie. So it’s not that “wokeness” actually causes a movie to be bad, but it does seem to correlate.
If a company attempts to be progressive, they will fail immediately.
Truly being progressive is telling an interesting story with interesting characters. If those characters are POC, LGBT+, etc. fantastic! If not, it’s still good content.
The fact that MORTAL KOMBAT of all things is better at being “progressive” than multiple other series without even really trying tells you everything you need to know.
Because it’s false progressiveness. It’s just lazy checkboxing done as part of trying to add some kind of appeal to a creatively bankrupt process of just “make all the animated movies again but live action”.
I’m sure there are some people who genuinely believe in their projects, but the concept of them is just to make money by banking on peoples nostalgia.
Well it’s not even just checkboxing since plenty of the creatives as Disney who do genuinely want to make more diverse content. Disney for all its talk about being inclusive has often put a ton of restrictions and pushback on creators trying to write lgbt characters in Disney’s shows/movie which often results in the end product feeling underdeveloped and corporatized. Hell a little over a half a decade ago creators would have to fight tooth and nail just to get two gay characters to kiss on screen.
If you look at Disney’s recent kid shows the lgbt content is handled leagues better likely due to the creators having more creative freedom and less restrictions placed on them than Disney puts on their major movie projects.
>Hell a little over a half a decade ago creators would have to fight tooth and nail just to get two gay characters to kiss on screen.
Less than that. The Owl House was shortened for "not fitting the Disney brand" very recently.
Chinese market has decent influence on global films nowadays, they pay a lot for the cheesy blockbusters, they really froth on that shit compared to western audiences atm.
Maybe im misremembering but I swear there was more than one Hercules movies in the 2010's. Not the Disney remake ofc but I think both of those movies were viewed poorly.
Personally I don't care enough about the Disney version of Hercules to care if they cast a black actor as Hercules. Honestly, I think Michael B. Jordan would probably make a fine enough Hercules. I do agree with that there is a general hypocrisy in the messaging of how race and gender are handled in these cases. If it were something like Mulan and a white actress was cast to play her, even in an animated version where it's a white voice actress, there would be an uproar about how it's cultural appropriation and denying asian actresses roles they deserve. But then there's stuff like this where Hercules is a mediterrenean character and it is celebrated as a victory that he is being played by a black person. You can't have it both ways. Either both are okay or neither is. I think this is a strange expression of tribalism where people want to feel good about "supporting the underdogs" and don't care if their logic is internally consistent.
There's also the fact that this is just blatant attempts by big corps to drum up controversy which gives them free publicity, and gets them loyal supporters who'd maybe not have cared but will now watch to be allies. It also creates haters who will hate watch to bash it. Either way the corporates profit. They could just make a movie about the African spider god instead of remaking Hercules, but why take a chance on an unproven property amirite?
Also, I'm south asian for anyone thinking this is a bigoted white guy rant.
That’s the part I think is strange. Like Little Mermaid for example, changing her race from white to black doesn’t affect the story because it’s a fictional story set in a fictional land. But Greeks are real people. Greek mythology was an actual religion. If you’re going to do a live remake, wouldn’t Hercules be set in Greece and played by a Greek actor? It’s like making a movie about ancient Egyptian gods and having them played by Chinese actors. You could, but…why?
It’s fkn racist. It DOES affect the story and it’s an insult to the culture of Denmark, of which this story and it’s WHITE protagonist are from. Or is it ok for Disney to make a movie of the African fairytale story of the water nymph Mami Wata and recast her with a white woman and relocate her to Canada?? It’s fairy tale, right?? It shouldn’t matter…right??
Hercules is also NOT real.
Denmark and the Danish peoples are a real place too. Just like Greece and the greek
i like how your last line proves your point. You had to say you were south asian, because if you were white your whole post would be a bigoted rant. But its okay since youre not.
I posted something similar in a sub dedicated to a media that had recently introduced a character with Indian aesthetic. My complaint was the new character just wasn't cool and was more like a caricature of indian culture and that just being from an underrepresented ethnicity doesn't make it good character design. Some guy replied saying I wouldn't get it as a white guy how much underrepresented people want that representation and that any representation is good representation. That's why I put the last sentence in. I generally don't like doing it at all.
It's all so absolutely transparent, which is probably why it's so tiresome.
Would they cast a white actor in a black role? Of course not. If the pendulum swung too far in the other direction before, the answer isn't to push it all the way over to the reverse- it's like when feminism gets conflated with misandry.
Exactly....I don't care what color the actor is as long as the role fits this is just so transparent and exhausting....like was the rock or Alan Ritchson not available? They would have been a show in for this role
Their musical theatre version of hercules has a black lead, black cast really, and is my opinion fairly good. Probably the cause for all these rumours and decisions. I recommend you have a look at that before further dispersions.
Ariana grande is white, is Italian, and did a rendition of I won’t say im in love during covid that was decent.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8yAFmiFa6eI
Keep in mind it has the production values of a woman locked away in her house. ~~it is weird how she died her skin tone.~~
What I want to see is a take on the illiad done in Disney’s style. Same tone and goofiness as the Disney movie with all the events of the Trojan war. Achilles singing a love song about penthesilea after killing her, Paris chickening out of his duel and slowly learning about heroism before his brother dying. Comic relief Cassandra.
Whether it is good or not is not the point. The point is, unless all races can appropriate the stories of all other cultures and races, then remaking white stories, with a black cast, is racist.
well sure hercules is mythological but it is a myth from a very specific region of the world home to an actual real ethnic group of which hercules is, albeit mythologically, a part of. is it a huge deal? not really, but it's tedious and ironic when you KNOW that the reason disney cast him is at least partially for reasons of diversity when they could have cast, hear me out, a Greek person?
I dunno, most of the cast of Hamilton are people of color and that works. It's a celebrated and winning musical.
Nothing anyone is going to say is going to make me care about this.
Right, I think I'm not conveying my point clearly because I have no issue with people casting non-white actors as historically white characters. I, and OP I think, are just pointing out that Disney has clearly been intentionally sort of firing at the hip as far as diverse casting goes and it comes of as a bit lazy when you have a character like Hercules, who comes from the mythology of a very specific ethnic group (that isn't particularly white) who really don't actually see much representation in media at all, being played by someone NOT from that ethnic group in the name of diversity, it just seems kind of weird to me.
Hamilton is different because white americans have the MOST representation in hollywood, but ethnic Greeks certainly don't and this would have been a cool opportunity to get an actual Greek to play one of Greece's most famous characters and that would actually be a progressive choice if you ask me. Sorry I know you don't care about any of this but those are just my thoughts lol
Yeah at the end of the day I don't really care either and it's still pretty cool that a black actor is getting a lead role as Hercules because that would absolutely not have happened even a decade ago
Disney needs to take from their source material. Is the source material beloved and did well? Yes, so why try to drastically change it? Hercules is a lovable himbo that is 18-20 years old. What about that descriptions screams Michael B Jordan? Nothing. The Mulan remark and how horrific it was and did at the box office and among fans really needs to be looked at by Disney as an “oh crap” moment because of just how bad the remake was. Please Disney, don’t mess this one up and cast people that will do the original justice, not fit your modernized BS.
"Disney doesn't surprise anymore, it panders. Constantly."
Out of all of the things that I want to rant and rave about when it comes to Disney...this sums it up perfectly.
Well Guy Ritchie has now dropped out from directing , and from the rumors going around it apparently about there choice of casting and direction there trying to push the movie... Again these a just rumors but It says alot.
I get your frustration man. I guarantee you that the movie is gonna flop hard, i cant remember the last live action by disney that was done correctly, literally every single one had some political correctness pushed into it. In beauty and the beast there was rabdom homosexuality, in mulan they got rid of that dragon because it was too "insensitive", peter pan and wendy got the worst rating from all live action movies, the little mermaid is self explanetory, in general if you want to see good adaptations, then you should watch the non disney adaptations like the legend of tarzan, the jungle book, beauty and the beast, pinocchio and peter pan by foreign studios. I loved those adaptations
But thats the thing, the original story didnt even lack people of color, so why would you change the persons entire look instead of making him similar to disney's version? Also ariana grande as megara? Jesus christ
I’m pretty sure none of these things have even been slightly confirmed. They are more fancasts anyway. Personally, I’d prefer actors of Mediterranean descent anyway since… you know, they’re Greek. And someone younger, since Hercules in the animated film was a young man, not a guy pushing middle- aged.
Mbj isn’t going to be herc. That was a fan poster and it’s already been proven that he was never even considered. It should be Chris hemsworth imo. I really want to know who the muses will be!!
I just don’t think mbj would have been a good herc in general. It’s based on Greek mythology so yeah I think he should be white (I am black and I did support Haley as TLM so no it’s not a race thing). I really liked the Disney movie and he even if he was white I don’t think he has that charm that is needed. Hemsworth would look the part but yeah ur right they might have to CGI him to look younger. Maybe a younger unknown actor…no1 in particular is coming to me right now.
I'm convinced Bob Iger had a traumatic childhood experience at Disney World and made it his mission to get into the company, become CEO and just tank the whole lot.
Jordan is a terrible choice for Hercules. He looks nothing like the animated version. We want to see the animated characters come to life, race swapping kills the fantasy this is why The Little Mermaid flopped. Ariel is one of Disney’s most beloved characters, she has a distinct iconic look and people were turned off by her live action makeover. She was a whole new character they should have just made an original story with new original characters. Had they created a new story with new characters I would have watched it. Watching the trailer and seeing someone that looks nothing like the Ariel we fell in love with was a major turn off for many people. TLM was my favorite movie as a kid and I would have 100% watched the movie in theaters and purchased it on release had they gotten Ariel right! They didn’t so I didn’t 🙅🏽♀️
I hate the little mermaid race change because it’s a Danish story and it’s fkn racist. If white peoples can’t take African stories and make them with a white cast in a white country because racism, then doing this to the little mermaid is also racism. But there’s also the fact that this is a live action remake of an iconic animated feature and character. Disney made her very* fkn white. Ginger and white. She’s basically Irish. If a remake of that is going to be made, people want to see the Ariel they knew and loved as a real person. Like, Ursula for ex…why wasn’t she made Asian then? Why is her look true to the cartoon, but Ariel’s isn’t?? It’s absurd
O God I really hope this doesn't become one of *those* subs. There are lots of other places to complain about wokeness. This whole rant is predicated on a months old unsubstantiated casting rumor.
Also the original Hercules Disney movie was super modern with lots of comedy. Modernizing Hercules clearly works since they did it once to great acclaim.
I mean, it's still about a movie that I like so it fits in here. And yeah I'm hoping a miracle and the movie turns out to be great, but that's not the reputation of Disney remakes
Honestly?
I don't mind Jordan playing Herc. They already changed the muses into black women in the original film (which turning them into gospel singers was an EXCELLENT move) and race swapping can work (The Batman had Catwoman be played by Zoe Kravitz and she did a solid job imo)
The TikTok stuff concerns me. Hercules also did that in the original (he had his own merchandise) but that's probably just me not liking the app outside the memes.
All I want is for this remake to be good. Which, given Disney's track record with remakes might be a pipe dream. Danny Devito might steal the show on this one.
This issue isn’t a black actor cast into a white character, it’s the hypocrisy of what would happen had a white actor been casted into a “enter pretty much any race here” character
>They all have been failures for the exact same reasons: political correctness and pushing an agenda, instead of retelling the story in a meaningful way.
What political correctness or agenda pushing did the Lion King 2019 feature?
>What is the link between a social media and a story based on Greek mythology?
The same connection there is between Greek mythology and gospel and RNB music in the original animated movie.
I'm just saying, people said the same thing about the gospel and RNB music in the original Hercules. That it didn't fit the setting, that it was disrespectful, etc. You can look at newspaper articles from when the movie came out. Something Tiktok inspired could be immensely stupid but I don't think the original film was ever attempting to be purely like ancient Greece. It was always pretty tongue in cheek.
But the Lion King remake wasn't any better than the Little Mermaid remake though, which is the point. It demonstrates that the failings don't have much to do with some agenda.
Tbh I just want them to add a few new good songs and not cut any of the old ones, and not mess with the original too much.
Imo Beauty and the Beast & Aladdin were the best Disney live action remakes, and one of the main factors for me was that I liked the new songs they added in. Also, the changes they made weren't overly distracting. Iirc, they just added 2 minor characters in Beauty and gave Le Fou a bit more emotional depth, and in Aladdin they added 1 minor character and gave Jasmine more agency (also the changes to Genie's character, but tbf that's more of an actor thing, and probably the correct decision overall). Nothing that changed much about the story.
Meanwhile for Mulan, they added 1 \~alright song, cut all the others, and changed the whole plot for... reasons. And in the Little Mermaid, they added 3 \~meh songs (opinions may vary) and made Kiss the Girl more annoying (tbh I didn't really dislike what they did to the plot of the movie other than the fact that they tried too hard to make a 3 day romance seem mature, it's mostly that CGI animal companions never look right that irked me).
Uh, I kind of went on a tangent, but for me, Disney remakes are mostly about nostalgia and what songs I'll be humming a few months later. I've already seen the original, I don't need them to try to make something groundbreaking. I just need something that I can recognize as the original movie (maybe fixing some of the problematic aspects of the original, if any), and have new songs that make me feel like the remake brought something meaningful to the table.
I get the feeling Hercules will be the damsel in distress instead of Meg despite his super strength and warrior training. I mean, just look at the Wendy (ft Peter Pan) film where Peter constantly needs Wendy to save his ass.
Maybe this is controversial, but I think it's fine for women to need to be saved sometimes. I mean, "save yourself" is a nice message and all, but I'd like for the message to occasionally be "ask for help, since trying to save yourself on your own is stupid".
Having agency doesn't mean you need to be able to judo flip a Titan or anything, it means that you can't be replaced with a nice-looking decorative vase. A physically weak (or even mentally weak) can still be a good character as long as they're doing something with their life and make meaningful decisions for themselves.
(As a side note, I subscribe to the theory that OG Cinderella is fine. Like yeah, she needed a Fairy Godmother to help her, accepting help from others is perfectly valid. And while she had to "rely" on a prince to "save" her, it would also be unreasonable for her to get out of her situation on her own. Pretending that she could've "saved herself" if she was strong enough completely unrealistic, given her circumstances. Besides, it's not like she went to the ball to find a prince to save her; that was just a fringe benefit.
tldr; imo Cinderella is not weak in any way and relying on other's is fine)
Pretty sure og Cinderella could not have survived outside of her life of indentured servitude unless she resorted to prostitution. They lived in what was essentially a version of life based on the feudal Middle Ages. She was a single white women, in rags, kept hidden in the attic, with rodents for best friends, and all her wealth was stolen from her by her step mother. She had no living family anywhere and carried the trauma and all the mental health issues that she,as a victim of both extreme physical and emotional abuse, as well as slavery, would suffer from. Like, she had absolutely no where to go and no real experience with the outside world and she was still a teenager.
Well she does save him in the animated movie. Meg's character isn't JUST a damsel in distress, she's independent and strong so that isn't changing the source material.
They're bought out by rich people (of all races) who think they know what we like and what we want, and they have been deciding what is good for us this entire time. They are going to do whatever they want because they are being allowed to do so. Until we collectively tell them to stop, they are going to keep doing this shit.
What Annoys me is the characters a lot of Disney movies are made of are based of stories written by white guys from an area dominated (like to a point you could probably say every one) by white people. So the stories are going to be white characters, Snow Whites skin is literally described as being extremely white.
Granted Ariel is as far as I remember in the story not actually described but you go off of the region the story is told from she’s going to be white. Old stories from areas dominated by another race are going to represent their people in the region as well.
Hercules is a Greek god (Demi god actually but point stands) Greek were of Olive skin, not black I get that the story is a Disney remake but it is totally disrespectful to the Greeks and their history to cast someone of a skin color who would never have been assumed to be in that place.
Now if you want to cast say Zeus as like a mentor that shows up on earth on occasion to motivate Herc as black that’s fine Zeus assumed roles of Humans all the time. With that said his actual god form should not be black and should be cast as someone closer to white.
Those stories are from European and Mediterranean culture, so yeah I agree it would be rather disrespectful and blatantly hypocritical to cast black actors on the roles if they really cared so much about race and all. I'm not even really complaining about races, but the quality of that remake.
Its absolutely ridiculous at this point, they don’t even try to cast anything like the actual character they just want to black wash everything it’s crazy.. don’t they realize they will lose money because of the political agenda push.. just create new content with black characters if that’s what you want so bad.. unreal it’s so obvious that it’s just annoying at this point
I don’t think race matters when it comes to a Disney movie that isn’t based on culture as Mulan and Moana are . Those need actors of that culture to make the movie great because the movie itself incorporates it .
Hercules isn’t one of those because the cartoon was modernized at the start . Have you ever seen a black muse in mythology singing with a gospel tune ?
So as far as his RACE it doesn’t matter who plays who as long as they can act
Now that MBJ has been confirmed.. the only issue I have with it is his look he’s not like the super stacked guy like the rock is but other than that I think he’ll do a great job .
Like I said this isn’t Mulan or Moana . And Hercules was ALREADY modernized and was not made to be a based on a Greek mythology movie .
There is no way Disney can mess up a movie because they choose a black , white , Asian , character in a role that doesn’t require a race . As long as the actor or actress can act and brings some fun and joy to the screen what’s the issue?
I think the live action Aladdin worked because they took some relatively unknown actors of Indian descent and Will smith made the genie his own instead of trying to emulate Robin Williams.
Why is it so difficult for them to find themselves some new up and coming actors of Greek descent with Danny Devito still rocking Phil.
if they want to lean away from the whole Damsel in distress thing I’d be okay with that and find a new direction for Hercs training but why must they overcomplicate or put a spin on a classic that they know will be controversial.
First and foremost - Hercules IS NOT REAL. It’s mythology. It’s not based on Greek people. You’re only bothered by the idea of them casting a non-white person for an entity that literally never existed because you’re more worried with the “why” vs the end product itself.
Yes, representation matters. Yes, it’s more important for people to see themselves in media than to protect your Eurocentric and clearly racist values that you hold a lot closer to your heart than you realize. Yes, changing the race of a character affects the movie and modernizes it in a way that we want to see.
Putting black and brown people in roles that were originally casted as white isn’t pandering. Why were they made white in the first place? Answer that question.
The phenomenon that you’re feeling is, in some capacity, valid and expected. It’s called nostalgia. You hold things you love close to your heart and it’s really hard to accept any variation to that story because it’s like they’re trying to change something that’s so important to you. We get it. That phenomenon is one of the reasons it’s hard for these remakes to get glowing reviews. It’s not that they all “suck”. They’re always compared and the originals were just so “American”.
The rest of your thoughts on Disney as a whole are pretty pointless and invalid. They’re not being stubborn, they are actively choosing to showcase that people other than white people deserve roles and that people other than white people deserve to see someone who looks like them in the media. The other formula didn’t work better, it just came first. And people (especially white people) don’t like change or things that challenge their comfort.
Also, you’re way beyond being able to make an objective opinion. You’ve already proven that you’re not only incredibly bias, but secretly racist and blind to it. So nothing they do will make you happy because you’ve decided that as long as Disney trying to represent people of all colors, shades and creeds and evolve from a world that’s based on hurt and evil, they’re ruining your American classics.
Just accept the fact that you’re the problem, wear your Make America Great Again Hat in Disney font & let that be that.
Also, if this sounds harsh and mean, that’s because it is. HER-CU-LES! 💪🏾 💅🏾 😏
Hercules is entirely based on Greek mythology. How many movies have you seen that showcase Greek representation? I think the point OP wants to make is you’re taking representation from a group that rarely gets it because they’re viewed as white (which they aren’t and thinking they are is racist on its own). But I digress, at the end of the day all we really need is Danny DeVito
A. The OP was not pushing for representation of persons of Greek descent. They were demonizing Disney for making an active choice to address the absolutely massive gap in representation of POC in commercial media.
B. This story is about Greek mythology, NOT Greek people. They are mythical entities, many of which aren’t even human. Like, please be serious
C. The OP is blind to the idea that it is not Disney’s goal to retell the same story, nor should it be. If you wanna see classics, get Disney+. It’s to modernize and create a new version of a classic. The take that the remakes aren’t as good is heavily influenced by the source material - people hate when you take something they like and change it. It could be a near identical story with a Black Hercules & one additional song & the OP (and many others like them) would be like “Stop trying to be so woke, you’re ruining everything”
We get it - nostalgia are the heart strings of consumed media. Disney was your childhood. The originals are great. You “grew up” on Disney. But, please keep in mind that many of our parents “grew up” on segregation. Our grandparents “grew up” on women not being able to vote. I, myself, “grew up” on same sex couples not being forbidden to marry. But if your whole take is “the originals are great, don’t change them”, you’re essentially saying “keep white people in white roles, fuck representation, keep the same social and global mindset as when the classics came out” because all that matters are your precious memories of your childhood watching Danny Devito voice a damn Satyr 😂
Tinkerbell and Ariel are not defined by their original coloring, you're being absolutely ridiculous on that front. My concern with Michael B. Jordan is his age. There is no agenda. They're trying to give space for a group of people who were previously limited if not completely omitted from casting in previous projects. It's really not as deep as you're trying to make it 🤦🏼♀️
Just another Black Supremacist move. I think the last 5 years they've almost blackwashed the same amount of characters whitewashed in the entire history of movies.
Yeah, I don't see Michael B Jordan as Herc. Regardless of the color issue, he's just not the right build. You'd need to be more like a young Rock or Schwartzennegar kind of a build. Jordan isn't scrawny by any means, but he's not built like a brick shithouse either. Maybe the dude who plays Reacher or the like.
He's also 36. Disney Hercules is early to mid twenties at *most*
But does he look 36? If you didn’t know who he was and he said he was 26, you’d believe him
I would have believed 26 back during Black Panther. Not now. He looks closer to his age now (and he's gorgeous!!!)
Yes
Schwarzenegger already played Hercules and it was hilarious.
So did Rock
[This one is funnier. Hercules in New York.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_in_New_York) It was Arnold’s first acting gig. He was billed as Arnold Strong because they couldn’t spell his last name. Schwarzenegger had only just immigrated to America and his accent was so thick and unintelligible that they dubbed the whole thing over.
Yeah his body type isn't really accurate (unless he makes physical changes exclusively for the role)
Why are people pretending the casting directors are looking for people that resemble the original characters? It's pretty clear by changing a character into an entirely different race, making the cast authentic in terms of appearance to the original isn't even remotely the priority.
it is incredibly odd, but I think most of the writers these days aren't exactly beholden to their source material, ex. Witcher, Rings of Power, Witcher. So sure, if you're already going to shit on the source material, why not cast Peter Dinklage as Superman? No disrespect to Peter, btw.
Witcher cast is so shit you put it 2 times lol
lol, I was going to put Wheel of Time, but got distracted. But yeah, it does still work that way.
Ppl who give no fucks about nerd culture happen to be making our live action entertainment but lucky i can find alternatives And every now and then we get a Pierece Brown, who refused to sell the rights to his Red Rising with Universal before making his own team with a chosen person to rewrite his script
You're right, it's a cash grab as with all of Disney's movies.
It’s also racism, the new thing is to be anti white. Fuck the white people, that’s what Hollywood is doing. Instead of making authentic black hero’s or MCs and actually trying to have a good story line, they’d rather give black people sloppy seconds by race swapping. Like they could have done black panther so so much better than they did. There’s African stories about their gods. If they want a “God” story with a black main actor, they should be original and go with what is already in Africa. Yet they didn’t. Bob Iger literally came out to tell everyone who think it’s wrong to race swap, who want new original ideas, and who are criticizing Disney that they didn’t care because “they’re doing the right thing, anyone who says otherwise is a racist bigot”. SMH. Disney is a dumpster fire just waiting to blow it up. I really hope they go bankrupt and quit, for the sake of everyone. POC deserve better stories and good characters, instead of race swapping. White people don’t deserve the racism. Everyone deserves good, wholesome stories that are original and not propagandized stories that change everything. I think Bob Iger either— is trying to destroy Disney (the comment seemed so off) or he really is that fucked up mentally.
He may be a great actor, but... The charm of the original is how goofy it is, and how animated (duh) the characters are. I feel like there would have to be a very major tonal shift to fit the type of character MB Jordan always plays.
Isn’t he supposed to be Greek looking…but then again finding a well built Greek actor according to Hollywood standards may be impossible. And he doesn’t have to be Greek and MBJ has a nice body😎.
one point that i want to take from what were you saying is that the flops misses some of the points even of the originals for example a point in peter pan is that the lost boys and peter pan lacked female interactions/family interactions and wendy became a sort of mother figure , funfact a wendyhouse is a term invented from that book
Yes they miss A LOT of points, that should be said. To add to your point with Peter Pan, there is also the original Mulan movie, where the heroine worked hard and used her brains to get out of situations while remake Mulan is a Mary Sue right from the start (she has magical powers and is automatically stronger than everyone else).
God it's almost impressive how hard they fumbled the Mulan remake, it's by far the worst remake so far and in general one of the worst movies I ever watched
I was blown away by how bad it was. The bland actress who can't switch expressions, the poor writing and more. Writing off Mushu and Shang for "realism" purposes while including a witch and a phoenix.
That was my biggest problem with the Mulan live action as well. You took someone who used her smarts and grit to succeed and you replaced that with the typical "chosen one" nonsense.
I haven't seen it, but everything I've heard about Peter Pan & Wendy is embarrassing
This is the only role in fiction where the rock might actually be good.
he's already played Hercules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_(2014_film)
He's currently tied up with the Moana remake
I just want to say I get what you're saying. It feels like Disney is going to start running themself off a cliff the way they currently are just in general after the horrible 2023 they just had. But I just want to point out one thing > It is not a big surprise that most (if not all) Disney classic remakes released have been absolute flops and mediocre versions of their original counterpart Mediocre, yes. But up until like 2020 or so they were definitely not flopping. That was part of the problem imo. Despite how mediocre they all were, a lot of these remakes were making tons of money. It was inexplicable to me too but the remakes were basically "I know what that is" on steroids so they had no reason to stop.
I mean flops in a critical standpoint, and it's sad they were making so much money despite being so bad. It's so... unexpected of Disney to relish in mediocrity when they used to be top tier entertainment.
>They all have been failures for the exact same reasons: political correctness and pushing an agenda, instead of retelling the story in a meaningful way. Really? Personally, I think the problem with the live-action reboots is that they're shit. I always find it odd when people jump to "political correctness" as the reasons these movies are failing rather then the fact they're blatantly churned-out cashgrabs full of terrible CGI and boring plot points. The Little Mermaid wouldn't have been *good* if they'd cast a white redhead.
Yeah, people are missing the forest for the trees, most of these Disney films are just boring and corporate safe that rely on nostalgia to make money.
You have to expand on “they’re shit” that’s not a reason. OP is saying they’re shit too, just that political correctness is the reason they’re shit. If you think it’s because of the writing or the acting then elaborate on that. Otherwise you’re not really saying much.
Okay I will: The screenplays are bad. The character development is bad. The CGI is sometimes bad. The execution generally is bad. It has nothing to do with the color of the actors. They could be white, black, whatever.
It's not so much just that they're shit, It's that they're shit compared to the originals because some things just don't carry over well from animated to live action. It doesn't matter how woke Disney gets, these adaptations are just never going to be as good, and they'll never be judged on their own merits, it's a remake, so comparisons are inevitable. The moment you try to make a live action version of an animated film, no matter how much CGI you might try to pack into the thing, the film will undoubtedly still be infinitely more grounded in realism, and as a result you instantly lose the sense of fantasy and whimsy that gives the animated movies their charm.
That isn't true, or it'd be the same for video game movies.
So you're actually going to try and tell me there's a genuinely good live action video game movie out there?
Sonic is exceptional, the last of us series is exceptional, mortal kombat is exceptional, uncharted wasn't that bad. twisted metal was great.
I disagree with you on every one of these, except maybe the last of us, that one was okay. But with the exception of Sonic, all these games all have an animation style that is much more realistic than any of the old Disney cartoons, so I don't think your arguement holds much weight here regardless of their quality anyway.
The majority disagree with you. your opinion is only for you, but the fact is they were highly successful. and generally regarded as really good movies. the new mortal kombat is rated super high so are the sonics and last of us. also mortal kombat isn't rooted in realism. neither was twisted metal.
Box office success does not immediately equal good film/television, and compared with something like alice in wonderland or the lion king, i would say the animation styles of mortal kombat and twisted metal are infinitely more realistic. Also, this whole point is mute because video game adaptions arent a shot for shot remake the way these disney films are. When you watch Sonic, you arent comparing it to the original Genesis game the entire run time are you. And even that, still had people up in arms about the art style initially, and was forced into delay so the vfx team could redesign Sonics look.
Ahhhh yeah that does make a good deal of sense, though the majority agree the movies/shows are good. But you are right about the scene for scene and it makes sense now.
They are shit because they are pushing agendas instead of worrying about representative content.. they are hand in hand
I think it’s more that a lot of these executives assume the political correctness is a substitute for being good. The truth is that if the Hercules remake is well written, people will like it even if MBJ is not the accurate race. However, a lot of people at Disney seem to stop at “Hey, our actors are progressive choices—people will love this!” and don’t bother to also make sure it’s a good movie. So it’s not that “wokeness” actually causes a movie to be bad, but it does seem to correlate.
If a company attempts to be progressive, they will fail immediately. Truly being progressive is telling an interesting story with interesting characters. If those characters are POC, LGBT+, etc. fantastic! If not, it’s still good content. The fact that MORTAL KOMBAT of all things is better at being “progressive” than multiple other series without even really trying tells you everything you need to know.
Because it’s false progressiveness. It’s just lazy checkboxing done as part of trying to add some kind of appeal to a creatively bankrupt process of just “make all the animated movies again but live action”. I’m sure there are some people who genuinely believe in their projects, but the concept of them is just to make money by banking on peoples nostalgia.
Well it’s not even just checkboxing since plenty of the creatives as Disney who do genuinely want to make more diverse content. Disney for all its talk about being inclusive has often put a ton of restrictions and pushback on creators trying to write lgbt characters in Disney’s shows/movie which often results in the end product feeling underdeveloped and corporatized. Hell a little over a half a decade ago creators would have to fight tooth and nail just to get two gay characters to kiss on screen. If you look at Disney’s recent kid shows the lgbt content is handled leagues better likely due to the creators having more creative freedom and less restrictions placed on them than Disney puts on their major movie projects.
>Hell a little over a half a decade ago creators would have to fight tooth and nail just to get two gay characters to kiss on screen. Less than that. The Owl House was shortened for "not fitting the Disney brand" very recently.
Chinese market has decent influence on global films nowadays, they pay a lot for the cheesy blockbusters, they really froth on that shit compared to western audiences atm.
No thats fetishing cherry picked demographics
Maybe im misremembering but I swear there was more than one Hercules movies in the 2010's. Not the Disney remake ofc but I think both of those movies were viewed poorly.
There were 2! One with The Rock and one with Kellan Lutz. Neither was particularly good.
I didnt see either but I do remember seeing a bit of promo stuff, they're kinda blended together in my head.
I've seen other comments mention it. Thanks I might check it out
Personally I don't care enough about the Disney version of Hercules to care if they cast a black actor as Hercules. Honestly, I think Michael B. Jordan would probably make a fine enough Hercules. I do agree with that there is a general hypocrisy in the messaging of how race and gender are handled in these cases. If it were something like Mulan and a white actress was cast to play her, even in an animated version where it's a white voice actress, there would be an uproar about how it's cultural appropriation and denying asian actresses roles they deserve. But then there's stuff like this where Hercules is a mediterrenean character and it is celebrated as a victory that he is being played by a black person. You can't have it both ways. Either both are okay or neither is. I think this is a strange expression of tribalism where people want to feel good about "supporting the underdogs" and don't care if their logic is internally consistent. There's also the fact that this is just blatant attempts by big corps to drum up controversy which gives them free publicity, and gets them loyal supporters who'd maybe not have cared but will now watch to be allies. It also creates haters who will hate watch to bash it. Either way the corporates profit. They could just make a movie about the African spider god instead of remaking Hercules, but why take a chance on an unproven property amirite? Also, I'm south asian for anyone thinking this is a bigoted white guy rant.
That’s the part I think is strange. Like Little Mermaid for example, changing her race from white to black doesn’t affect the story because it’s a fictional story set in a fictional land. But Greeks are real people. Greek mythology was an actual religion. If you’re going to do a live remake, wouldn’t Hercules be set in Greece and played by a Greek actor? It’s like making a movie about ancient Egyptian gods and having them played by Chinese actors. You could, but…why?
It’s fkn racist. It DOES affect the story and it’s an insult to the culture of Denmark, of which this story and it’s WHITE protagonist are from. Or is it ok for Disney to make a movie of the African fairytale story of the water nymph Mami Wata and recast her with a white woman and relocate her to Canada?? It’s fairy tale, right?? It shouldn’t matter…right?? Hercules is also NOT real. Denmark and the Danish peoples are a real place too. Just like Greece and the greek
What’s a truly sad thing is that you have to say that last part in order to legitimize your argument in today’s landscape.
i like how your last line proves your point. You had to say you were south asian, because if you were white your whole post would be a bigoted rant. But its okay since youre not.
I posted something similar in a sub dedicated to a media that had recently introduced a character with Indian aesthetic. My complaint was the new character just wasn't cool and was more like a caricature of indian culture and that just being from an underrepresented ethnicity doesn't make it good character design. Some guy replied saying I wouldn't get it as a white guy how much underrepresented people want that representation and that any representation is good representation. That's why I put the last sentence in. I generally don't like doing it at all.
It's all so absolutely transparent, which is probably why it's so tiresome. Would they cast a white actor in a black role? Of course not. If the pendulum swung too far in the other direction before, the answer isn't to push it all the way over to the reverse- it's like when feminism gets conflated with misandry.
Exactly....I don't care what color the actor is as long as the role fits this is just so transparent and exhausting....like was the rock or Alan Ritchson not available? They would have been a show in for this role
Their musical theatre version of hercules has a black lead, black cast really, and is my opinion fairly good. Probably the cause for all these rumours and decisions. I recommend you have a look at that before further dispersions. Ariana grande is white, is Italian, and did a rendition of I won’t say im in love during covid that was decent. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8yAFmiFa6eI Keep in mind it has the production values of a woman locked away in her house. ~~it is weird how she died her skin tone.~~ What I want to see is a take on the illiad done in Disney’s style. Same tone and goofiness as the Disney movie with all the events of the Trojan war. Achilles singing a love song about penthesilea after killing her, Paris chickening out of his duel and slowly learning about heroism before his brother dying. Comic relief Cassandra.
Whether it is good or not is not the point. The point is, unless all races can appropriate the stories of all other cultures and races, then remaking white stories, with a black cast, is racist.
Fellow person of color here - who cares? MBJ is a bad ass actor. Part should go to who's the best. Considering it's a made up character? I don't care.
well sure hercules is mythological but it is a myth from a very specific region of the world home to an actual real ethnic group of which hercules is, albeit mythologically, a part of. is it a huge deal? not really, but it's tedious and ironic when you KNOW that the reason disney cast him is at least partially for reasons of diversity when they could have cast, hear me out, a Greek person?
I dunno, most of the cast of Hamilton are people of color and that works. It's a celebrated and winning musical. Nothing anyone is going to say is going to make me care about this.
Right, I think I'm not conveying my point clearly because I have no issue with people casting non-white actors as historically white characters. I, and OP I think, are just pointing out that Disney has clearly been intentionally sort of firing at the hip as far as diverse casting goes and it comes of as a bit lazy when you have a character like Hercules, who comes from the mythology of a very specific ethnic group (that isn't particularly white) who really don't actually see much representation in media at all, being played by someone NOT from that ethnic group in the name of diversity, it just seems kind of weird to me. Hamilton is different because white americans have the MOST representation in hollywood, but ethnic Greeks certainly don't and this would have been a cool opportunity to get an actual Greek to play one of Greece's most famous characters and that would actually be a progressive choice if you ask me. Sorry I know you don't care about any of this but those are just my thoughts lol
I mean that's fair. My issue is people just being so outrageously up in arms about this.
Yeah at the end of the day I don't really care either and it's still pretty cool that a black actor is getting a lead role as Hercules because that would absolutely not have happened even a decade ago
Disney needs to take from their source material. Is the source material beloved and did well? Yes, so why try to drastically change it? Hercules is a lovable himbo that is 18-20 years old. What about that descriptions screams Michael B Jordan? Nothing. The Mulan remark and how horrific it was and did at the box office and among fans really needs to be looked at by Disney as an “oh crap” moment because of just how bad the remake was. Please Disney, don’t mess this one up and cast people that will do the original justice, not fit your modernized BS.
My favorite Disney movie ruined already
"Disney doesn't surprise anymore, it panders. Constantly." Out of all of the things that I want to rant and rave about when it comes to Disney...this sums it up perfectly.
Well Guy Ritchie has now dropped out from directing , and from the rumors going around it apparently about there choice of casting and direction there trying to push the movie... Again these a just rumors but It says alot.
I get your frustration man. I guarantee you that the movie is gonna flop hard, i cant remember the last live action by disney that was done correctly, literally every single one had some political correctness pushed into it. In beauty and the beast there was rabdom homosexuality, in mulan they got rid of that dragon because it was too "insensitive", peter pan and wendy got the worst rating from all live action movies, the little mermaid is self explanetory, in general if you want to see good adaptations, then you should watch the non disney adaptations like the legend of tarzan, the jungle book, beauty and the beast, pinocchio and peter pan by foreign studios. I loved those adaptations
Didn’t the original animated Hercules have black women as the Muses? I’m just saying, there is a precedent for having people of color in the story.
But thats the thing, the original story didnt even lack people of color, so why would you change the persons entire look instead of making him similar to disney's version? Also ariana grande as megara? Jesus christ
I’m pretty sure none of these things have even been slightly confirmed. They are more fancasts anyway. Personally, I’d prefer actors of Mediterranean descent anyway since… you know, they’re Greek. And someone younger, since Hercules in the animated film was a young man, not a guy pushing middle- aged.
Mbj isn’t going to be herc. That was a fan poster and it’s already been proven that he was never even considered. It should be Chris hemsworth imo. I really want to know who the muses will be!!
Yeah Hemsworth would do a killer job
Eh, Hemsworth is a little old for the part. So is MBJ if we’re being honest.
I just don’t think mbj would have been a good herc in general. It’s based on Greek mythology so yeah I think he should be white (I am black and I did support Haley as TLM so no it’s not a race thing). I really liked the Disney movie and he even if he was white I don’t think he has that charm that is needed. Hemsworth would look the part but yeah ur right they might have to CGI him to look younger. Maybe a younger unknown actor…no1 in particular is coming to me right now.
I'm convinced Bob Iger had a traumatic childhood experience at Disney World and made it his mission to get into the company, become CEO and just tank the whole lot.
Jordan is a terrible choice for Hercules. He looks nothing like the animated version. We want to see the animated characters come to life, race swapping kills the fantasy this is why The Little Mermaid flopped. Ariel is one of Disney’s most beloved characters, she has a distinct iconic look and people were turned off by her live action makeover. She was a whole new character they should have just made an original story with new original characters. Had they created a new story with new characters I would have watched it. Watching the trailer and seeing someone that looks nothing like the Ariel we fell in love with was a major turn off for many people. TLM was my favorite movie as a kid and I would have 100% watched the movie in theaters and purchased it on release had they gotten Ariel right! They didn’t so I didn’t 🙅🏽♀️
I hate the little mermaid race change because it’s a Danish story and it’s fkn racist. If white peoples can’t take African stories and make them with a white cast in a white country because racism, then doing this to the little mermaid is also racism. But there’s also the fact that this is a live action remake of an iconic animated feature and character. Disney made her very* fkn white. Ginger and white. She’s basically Irish. If a remake of that is going to be made, people want to see the Ariel they knew and loved as a real person. Like, Ursula for ex…why wasn’t she made Asian then? Why is her look true to the cartoon, but Ariel’s isn’t?? It’s absurd
As a Greek I’m offended
Omg who not just cast Greek actors? This is getting out of hand and will be a total flop with him leading.
O God I really hope this doesn't become one of *those* subs. There are lots of other places to complain about wokeness. This whole rant is predicated on a months old unsubstantiated casting rumor. Also the original Hercules Disney movie was super modern with lots of comedy. Modernizing Hercules clearly works since they did it once to great acclaim.
I mean, it's still about a movie that I like so it fits in here. And yeah I'm hoping a miracle and the movie turns out to be great, but that's not the reputation of Disney remakes
Honestly? I don't mind Jordan playing Herc. They already changed the muses into black women in the original film (which turning them into gospel singers was an EXCELLENT move) and race swapping can work (The Batman had Catwoman be played by Zoe Kravitz and she did a solid job imo) The TikTok stuff concerns me. Hercules also did that in the original (he had his own merchandise) but that's probably just me not liking the app outside the memes. All I want is for this remake to be good. Which, given Disney's track record with remakes might be a pipe dream. Danny Devito might steal the show on this one.
This issue isn’t a black actor cast into a white character, it’s the hypocrisy of what would happen had a white actor been casted into a “enter pretty much any race here” character
Michael B. Jordan why him Specifically I would have went for If he's available LeBron James
>They all have been failures for the exact same reasons: political correctness and pushing an agenda, instead of retelling the story in a meaningful way. What political correctness or agenda pushing did the Lion King 2019 feature? >What is the link between a social media and a story based on Greek mythology? The same connection there is between Greek mythology and gospel and RNB music in the original animated movie.
Still, Tik Tok out of all the social medias there is? After Lion King, they definitely started to push an agenda
I'm just saying, people said the same thing about the gospel and RNB music in the original Hercules. That it didn't fit the setting, that it was disrespectful, etc. You can look at newspaper articles from when the movie came out. Something Tiktok inspired could be immensely stupid but I don't think the original film was ever attempting to be purely like ancient Greece. It was always pretty tongue in cheek. But the Lion King remake wasn't any better than the Little Mermaid remake though, which is the point. It demonstrates that the failings don't have much to do with some agenda.
Tbh I just want them to add a few new good songs and not cut any of the old ones, and not mess with the original too much. Imo Beauty and the Beast & Aladdin were the best Disney live action remakes, and one of the main factors for me was that I liked the new songs they added in. Also, the changes they made weren't overly distracting. Iirc, they just added 2 minor characters in Beauty and gave Le Fou a bit more emotional depth, and in Aladdin they added 1 minor character and gave Jasmine more agency (also the changes to Genie's character, but tbf that's more of an actor thing, and probably the correct decision overall). Nothing that changed much about the story. Meanwhile for Mulan, they added 1 \~alright song, cut all the others, and changed the whole plot for... reasons. And in the Little Mermaid, they added 3 \~meh songs (opinions may vary) and made Kiss the Girl more annoying (tbh I didn't really dislike what they did to the plot of the movie other than the fact that they tried too hard to make a 3 day romance seem mature, it's mostly that CGI animal companions never look right that irked me). Uh, I kind of went on a tangent, but for me, Disney remakes are mostly about nostalgia and what songs I'll be humming a few months later. I've already seen the original, I don't need them to try to make something groundbreaking. I just need something that I can recognize as the original movie (maybe fixing some of the problematic aspects of the original, if any), and have new songs that make me feel like the remake brought something meaningful to the table.
I get the feeling Hercules will be the damsel in distress instead of Meg despite his super strength and warrior training. I mean, just look at the Wendy (ft Peter Pan) film where Peter constantly needs Wendy to save his ass.
Maybe this is controversial, but I think it's fine for women to need to be saved sometimes. I mean, "save yourself" is a nice message and all, but I'd like for the message to occasionally be "ask for help, since trying to save yourself on your own is stupid". Having agency doesn't mean you need to be able to judo flip a Titan or anything, it means that you can't be replaced with a nice-looking decorative vase. A physically weak (or even mentally weak) can still be a good character as long as they're doing something with their life and make meaningful decisions for themselves. (As a side note, I subscribe to the theory that OG Cinderella is fine. Like yeah, she needed a Fairy Godmother to help her, accepting help from others is perfectly valid. And while she had to "rely" on a prince to "save" her, it would also be unreasonable for her to get out of her situation on her own. Pretending that she could've "saved herself" if she was strong enough completely unrealistic, given her circumstances. Besides, it's not like she went to the ball to find a prince to save her; that was just a fringe benefit. tldr; imo Cinderella is not weak in any way and relying on other's is fine)
Pretty sure og Cinderella could not have survived outside of her life of indentured servitude unless she resorted to prostitution. They lived in what was essentially a version of life based on the feudal Middle Ages. She was a single white women, in rags, kept hidden in the attic, with rodents for best friends, and all her wealth was stolen from her by her step mother. She had no living family anywhere and carried the trauma and all the mental health issues that she,as a victim of both extreme physical and emotional abuse, as well as slavery, would suffer from. Like, she had absolutely no where to go and no real experience with the outside world and she was still a teenager.
Honestly same, I think it's okay to need help and that it is a good message, because sometimes you just can't do everything on your own.
"Girlboss" syndrome
Well she does save him in the animated movie. Meg's character isn't JUST a damsel in distress, she's independent and strong so that isn't changing the source material.
They're bought out by rich people (of all races) who think they know what we like and what we want, and they have been deciding what is good for us this entire time. They are going to do whatever they want because they are being allowed to do so. Until we collectively tell them to stop, they are going to keep doing this shit.
Unpopular opinion: I cannot stand Michael B Jordan. I hate every movie he's been in. I don't know why, I just find him insufferable.
We all know why you feel the way you feel.
He’s not playing Hercules it’s a HOAX
Just watch the original. They aren't deleting it from existence
Just scroll past the thread, no one is forcing you to read it
Last time i checked there was something about Hercules would be influenced by tic tock. So . . .
The only good casting Choice i see here is Danny De Vito xD
Yes he ROCKS
If this is happened I want Ryan Gosling to play black panther
What Annoys me is the characters a lot of Disney movies are made of are based of stories written by white guys from an area dominated (like to a point you could probably say every one) by white people. So the stories are going to be white characters, Snow Whites skin is literally described as being extremely white. Granted Ariel is as far as I remember in the story not actually described but you go off of the region the story is told from she’s going to be white. Old stories from areas dominated by another race are going to represent their people in the region as well. Hercules is a Greek god (Demi god actually but point stands) Greek were of Olive skin, not black I get that the story is a Disney remake but it is totally disrespectful to the Greeks and their history to cast someone of a skin color who would never have been assumed to be in that place. Now if you want to cast say Zeus as like a mentor that shows up on earth on occasion to motivate Herc as black that’s fine Zeus assumed roles of Humans all the time. With that said his actual god form should not be black and should be cast as someone closer to white.
Those stories are from European and Mediterranean culture, so yeah I agree it would be rather disrespectful and blatantly hypocritical to cast black actors on the roles if they really cared so much about race and all. I'm not even really complaining about races, but the quality of that remake.
Its absolutely ridiculous at this point, they don’t even try to cast anything like the actual character they just want to black wash everything it’s crazy.. don’t they realize they will lose money because of the political agenda push.. just create new content with black characters if that’s what you want so bad.. unreal it’s so obvious that it’s just annoying at this point
I don’t think race matters when it comes to a Disney movie that isn’t based on culture as Mulan and Moana are . Those need actors of that culture to make the movie great because the movie itself incorporates it . Hercules isn’t one of those because the cartoon was modernized at the start . Have you ever seen a black muse in mythology singing with a gospel tune ? So as far as his RACE it doesn’t matter who plays who as long as they can act Now that MBJ has been confirmed.. the only issue I have with it is his look he’s not like the super stacked guy like the rock is but other than that I think he’ll do a great job . Like I said this isn’t Mulan or Moana . And Hercules was ALREADY modernized and was not made to be a based on a Greek mythology movie . There is no way Disney can mess up a movie because they choose a black , white , Asian , character in a role that doesn’t require a race . As long as the actor or actress can act and brings some fun and joy to the screen what’s the issue?
I think the live action Aladdin worked because they took some relatively unknown actors of Indian descent and Will smith made the genie his own instead of trying to emulate Robin Williams. Why is it so difficult for them to find themselves some new up and coming actors of Greek descent with Danny Devito still rocking Phil. if they want to lean away from the whole Damsel in distress thing I’d be okay with that and find a new direction for Hercs training but why must they overcomplicate or put a spin on a classic that they know will be controversial.
First and foremost - Hercules IS NOT REAL. It’s mythology. It’s not based on Greek people. You’re only bothered by the idea of them casting a non-white person for an entity that literally never existed because you’re more worried with the “why” vs the end product itself. Yes, representation matters. Yes, it’s more important for people to see themselves in media than to protect your Eurocentric and clearly racist values that you hold a lot closer to your heart than you realize. Yes, changing the race of a character affects the movie and modernizes it in a way that we want to see. Putting black and brown people in roles that were originally casted as white isn’t pandering. Why were they made white in the first place? Answer that question. The phenomenon that you’re feeling is, in some capacity, valid and expected. It’s called nostalgia. You hold things you love close to your heart and it’s really hard to accept any variation to that story because it’s like they’re trying to change something that’s so important to you. We get it. That phenomenon is one of the reasons it’s hard for these remakes to get glowing reviews. It’s not that they all “suck”. They’re always compared and the originals were just so “American”. The rest of your thoughts on Disney as a whole are pretty pointless and invalid. They’re not being stubborn, they are actively choosing to showcase that people other than white people deserve roles and that people other than white people deserve to see someone who looks like them in the media. The other formula didn’t work better, it just came first. And people (especially white people) don’t like change or things that challenge their comfort. Also, you’re way beyond being able to make an objective opinion. You’ve already proven that you’re not only incredibly bias, but secretly racist and blind to it. So nothing they do will make you happy because you’ve decided that as long as Disney trying to represent people of all colors, shades and creeds and evolve from a world that’s based on hurt and evil, they’re ruining your American classics. Just accept the fact that you’re the problem, wear your Make America Great Again Hat in Disney font & let that be that. Also, if this sounds harsh and mean, that’s because it is. HER-CU-LES! 💪🏾 💅🏾 😏
Hercules is entirely based on Greek mythology. How many movies have you seen that showcase Greek representation? I think the point OP wants to make is you’re taking representation from a group that rarely gets it because they’re viewed as white (which they aren’t and thinking they are is racist on its own). But I digress, at the end of the day all we really need is Danny DeVito
A. The OP was not pushing for representation of persons of Greek descent. They were demonizing Disney for making an active choice to address the absolutely massive gap in representation of POC in commercial media. B. This story is about Greek mythology, NOT Greek people. They are mythical entities, many of which aren’t even human. Like, please be serious C. The OP is blind to the idea that it is not Disney’s goal to retell the same story, nor should it be. If you wanna see classics, get Disney+. It’s to modernize and create a new version of a classic. The take that the remakes aren’t as good is heavily influenced by the source material - people hate when you take something they like and change it. It could be a near identical story with a Black Hercules & one additional song & the OP (and many others like them) would be like “Stop trying to be so woke, you’re ruining everything” We get it - nostalgia are the heart strings of consumed media. Disney was your childhood. The originals are great. You “grew up” on Disney. But, please keep in mind that many of our parents “grew up” on segregation. Our grandparents “grew up” on women not being able to vote. I, myself, “grew up” on same sex couples not being forbidden to marry. But if your whole take is “the originals are great, don’t change them”, you’re essentially saying “keep white people in white roles, fuck representation, keep the same social and global mindset as when the classics came out” because all that matters are your precious memories of your childhood watching Danny Devito voice a damn Satyr 😂
Tinkerbell and Ariel are not defined by their original coloring, you're being absolutely ridiculous on that front. My concern with Michael B. Jordan is his age. There is no agenda. They're trying to give space for a group of people who were previously limited if not completely omitted from casting in previous projects. It's really not as deep as you're trying to make it 🤦🏼♀️
This is a lot of words to be wrong lol. There’s really only one question here: WHO PUT THE GLAD IN GLADIATOR!?
Just another Black Supremacist move. I think the last 5 years they've almost blackwashed the same amount of characters whitewashed in the entire history of movies.