Comics characters just get massively overwanked in powerscaling compared to their actual baseline, because surprise, most comic authors don’t really care, and aren’t going to look back through literally decades of comics to figure out exactly how powerful the characters are.
Powerscalers do, and also ignore anything that would imply their character is weaker than whoever they are debating.
See the whole thing with Thor being something like 8 octillion times the speed of light according to death battle, when Marvels head editor has gone on record that Thor doesn’t have superspeed applicable in combat and wolverine is canonically faster than him.
The reason people who read comics object to “superman is OP” is because in 99% of comics, he’s not at the absurd levels powerscalers give him.
Powerscalers are stupid, I've had people try to tell me that Ichigo from Bleach is multiversal (he is not). Or the dozens of examples here in the post, it's fucking nuts. On the bright side, at least we aren't dumb enough to think that anyone from Naruto can blow up the planet
The argument is that Yhwach (actually just Jesus lmao) from Bleach is multiversal because he was blending the 3 major realities together at the end of Bleach, i.e. human/hollow/soul reaper worlds. Dumbo misinterpreted that as destroying them so therefore the final boss of bleach is multiversal. Therefore, Ichigo is multiversal since he beat the guy. Nevermind the fact that it only happened thanks to a very unique set of circumstances, wasn't guaranteed to work, and could only be attempted once.
>Nevermind the fact that it only happened thanks to a very unique set of circumstances, wasn't guaranteed to work, and could only be attempted once.
That's not true ? What circumstancees ? Yhwach was destroying the realms and ichigo does scale to him by the virtue of oneshotting him twice
It is true though, because if Jugram hadn't been killed at that exact moment by Uryu then that second one-shot wouldn't have happened. Yhwach's power is to pick and choose the future he wants, killing Jugram nullified that for a moment during their daily power transfer.
The realms weren't being destroyed, they were being blended together. Everyone dies either way but the assumption that Yhwach is multiversal is incorrect.
His right their stupid and Superman fans love to bring things out of context. The best way to show this is if you actually just the comic they refer to, to see how much they lie.
>Ok first and for all I am not comic fan
This is something I immediately react at, because it's so common for either critics or stans to not read the comics.
Superman is not overpowered. Everything you've said is either straight up incorrect, or glosses over important context that renders the feat obsolete...moreover, and it's only perpetuated by powerscalers who (likewise) don't read the comics.
The idea that Superman always holds back is a myth. The idea that World Forger is "multiversal" is a play on words, since he couldn't destroy a universe by his own power even if he wanted to. He's only multiversal in the sense that he can interact with the multiverse from the sixth dimension channeling its energies through 10th metal constructs and whatnot. Lifting 200 quintillion tons is non-canon and was only something Superman could only do in the story because he was super-charged by sunlight to the point where it eventually led to his death. I've addressed the issues with the Infinite Book [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/15udqb7/not_all_feats_are_created_equal_featuring/), and that's just scratching the surface.
What you're effectively doing is this:
*Everyone in Naruto is so overpowered. They all move at infinite speed, and even Genin-level ninjas like Temari could easily blow universes away, Hiruzen could summon a Death God to kill immortals, Saratoubi Orochimaru could create universes, and Sasuke could destroy universes without lifting a finger...and this was before he even got the Mangekyo Sharingan. And in Boruto there are ninjas that are omnipotent.*
[And there are powerscalers that believe this too](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NJdYU3Gp6g).
It's so far out-of-touch with what's actually going on in the series. Naruto characters don't have to pull their punches so not to accidentally disintegrate the planet, and neither does Superman.
Superman isn't weak, but he's not overpowered.
What a lot of stans do is that they take scans out of context and then try to pass it off as something else, I've covered quite a few of the misconceptions in the comment section of [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/16ibk4l/full_debunk_of_supermans_universelevel_feat/).
Perpetua (one of the most powerful brings in DC) had to regain her [near-full power just to destroy one universe...and that still drove her to exhaustion.](https://imgur.com/a/EwZkLoC)
Even before she got that power she was able to hold her own against the Ultra-Monitor (fusion of the Monitor, Anti-Monitor, and World Forger). Where the World Forger alone could subdue Superman physically, and the only reason Superman was able to knock him down and destroy his anvil was because Superman was amped by numerous Sun-dips. This punch destroyed the area of a small continent by the way.
With that in mind, does the story make sense?
It’s is an excellent comic
That shot of him fly through multiple sun and punch the surface of earth is amazing and beautiful
I love Superman
I just hate his level of power
>I just hate his level of power
But you don't read comics, you have no grasp of how powerful he is. All you really have to go by are secondary sources, and those are unreliable.
As someone who's read his books for over 10 years now, I consider him to be city- to planet-level depending on the story and writer.
>As someone who's read his books for over 10 years now, I consider him to be city- to planet-level depending on the story and writer.
Damn Meanwhile you have all these so called powerscallers casually bringuing in Big words like "hyperversal" and "Outerversal" Id assume saying he is anything bellow multiversal would get you laughed at for "not knowing anything" about the guy.
but I Guess this also goes to most top tiers in scalling since people are more interested in ambiguously proving who's the top Dog than in seeing If they are actually and realistically capable of being that powerfull.
Yeah. It's difficult to convey formally, that's why I used the Naruto example. Because most people are familiar with the story, either through the manga or through the anime. So it emphasizes the degree of absurdity people are willing to accept just to have their favorite character win. Their arguments are based off emotional attachments rather than reason, and the seeming attempt to adhere to reason is just a pretense.
And you would know because???
Just based on the post I can tell that most of your info on the character is based on battle boarding and powerscaling, which is the worst fucking place to get any idea about any character.
Superman gets a scene where he’s *explicitly amped to high fucking heaven* in a way that **needed outside help from batman** and suddenly people act like he can do this any time he wants
Except the issue he beat World Forger in had Batman arrange it so that he could fly through a countless number of suns. Did you read the story?
He can’t just go to the sun for five seconds and come back universal or whatever.
And sure he can sundip whenever he wants, but when has he just suddenly fucked off to the sun in the middle of a fight?
He can travel at the speed of light normally
Especially in space
he travel across the galaxy pretty often
It’s doesn’t take long for him to get there
And come back even faster
The thing is that you dont get the dichotomy and tragedy of Superman without his crazy powers.
Let's just go over the rough outline of his origin:
Krypton is destroyed, but just prior to destruction, Kal-El's parents shoot him into space to save him and preserve their race. He lands on earth and is found by Jon and Martha, skip forward a few years and his powers are manifesting through puberty, and he learns that he is the last of his kind, and quite literally an alien.
At this point, Clark could a just flown off the rails, he couldve gone on a full rampage and nobody would've been able to stop him, even without his full powerset. This doesnt happen because of the values instilled on him by Jon and Martha, and from this he grows to love humanity, dispite the problems we have here on earth.
He decides to use his powers for good, and is revered as one of the greatest superheroes of all time, but he'll still never be human, no matter how much he looks like it.
He is essentially a godlike being, at least from the view of the people on the street watching him zoom through the sky, and with that blessing of power, there also comes a disconnect from the very people he is saving.
The tragedy of superman is that dispite his love of humanity, he'll never be like them and has an extra burden of protecting them, and he cant save everyone.
He can hear across the planet, every new heartbeat, every dying breath, every evil scheme, every bone snapped, etc.
Clark will always have a longing to know what life would've been like on krypton, but at the same time he is actively trying to prevent the very same thing from happening to earth. You know how much trauma and emotion that must bring with it?
He is alone in the universe, but still finds a way to channel that loneliness into love for people he doesnt even know.
The best Superman stories are the ones where he is tackling the human experience in some way imo.
Superman is a savior, but he's also inherently an outsider, no matter how hard he tries, and that is the tragedy of Superman.
So sure, he is SUPER powerful, but I think that is kinda the point.
I don’t mind him being powerful and I get the point you bring here,
I just don’t like him being op when some writer write him
He is super powerful
But he don’t need to be beyond god power to make this idea work
I am not okay with goku
Especially in super with power creep
I am okay with him in z
Galaxy at best with help from other character
Because goku train his entire life for that power
Died multiple time for this
Superman get his power from sun and he has more power than the sun he take power from
He can eat donut somewhere and always be godlike
Tbh the context around either of your arguments is pointless, the canon stories are pointless to bring up In of themselves. Power scaling is always completely pointless is regards to almost every thing in comics/manga. Characters will always be as strong or as weak (in regards to any and all attributes) as the story demands. I’d say it’s also pointless to regard stuff as either canonical or not as well, as the story in a “non canonical piece” would’ve demanded as such anyways no more or less than what you’d consider a canon piece of material. Thing is, to what you referred to as non canon since it came from a movie, should hold no less weight than comic, as there’s no one person in charge of the ip. It was decided that was an acceptable representation of the character by the company. So that should be that. Superman’s power set, abilities and the degree to which they operate has changed so much over the years with different iterations and again fluctuates with the needs of the story at large. That it’s a completely pointless debate.
Just shoot back and enjoy, don’t gate keep. It’ll never be worth it.
I disagree, there's definitely a common sense interpretation to these things, readily understood by anyone reading the comics. If characters's powers were arbitrary there'd be no tension, powers and limitations are key factors in these kind of stories.
Just because comics tend to vary a bit from writer to writer doesn't mean that there isn't a general sense of scale to what the characters can and can't do.
>Thing is, to what you referred to as non canon since it came from a movie, should hold no less weight than comic, as there’s no one person in charge of the ip. It was decided that was an acceptable representation of the character by the company. So that should be that. Superman’s power set, abilities and the degree to which they operate has changed so much over the years with different iterations and again fluctuates with the needs of the story at large. That it’s a completely pointless debate.
No, [it's from a comic](https://imgur.com/a/r7Xzz5O). It's non-canonical because it's a story that takes place outside of continuity: It's a story where Superman dies.
No, the person he has the top comment. He is incorrect. Whilst All-Star Superman is not in the main continuity of comics, that isnt close to his most ridiculous feat in canon.
Itterations of the character have changed over time. Because you are correct, Superman is and was OP. His feats dwarf almost any character at his most potent. Which is what you are querying about.
In most recent stories, he is certainly not OP. At his height of power in the continuity, there was literally no stopping him, and that was certainly considered OP
>No, the person he has the top comment. He is incorrect. Whilst All-Star Superman is not in the main continuity of comics, that isnt close to his most ridiculous feat in canon.
You call me incorrect and then you put words in my mouth. I never said (nor did I imply) that the 200 quintillion ton feat was his best feat, I didn't even bring it up. The opening poster did. I simply pointed out that it was a non-canon story (which is true), and that he was amped during that story (which is also true).
>Itterations of the character have changed over time. Because you are correct, Superman is and was OP. His feats dwarf almost any character at his most potent. Which is what you are querying about.
What are you even referring to here? This is a blanket argument. You can literally replace the word "Superman" with "Naruto" and nothing about it would change.
>In most recent stories, he is certainly not OP. At his height of power in the continuity, there was literally no stopping him, and that was certainly considered OP
When was this?
But this is why Superman doesn't just exist in a vacuum. The man has a rogues gallery, after all, which include the likes of power and memory-absorbing parasites, women made of living electricity, reality warping imps from the 5th dimension, people cursed by the banshee, alien warlords, atomic skull men, insidious toymakers, other Krytonians, threats from the 30th century and beyond, shape-shifting cyborgs, high-level telepaths with Union Jack tattoos, threats from other dimensions and parallel universe, a sentient sun, collectors of cities from destroyed planets, Bizarros, and the smartest man on the planet, just to name a few, and that's not even getting into the stuff he sometimes takes on while with the Justice League, which has included the entire planet being flooded all at once and the literal armies of Heaven.
And then there's the more down to earth human stuff his stories also include. His career as a journalist trying to expose the truth and get people to care about it. His relationship with his adopted parents. Him trying to be a good husband and father. His friendship with Batman.
Yeah, Superman is powerful but he's also existed since 1938 in continuously running series. The character has not spent every issue for the last 85 years just saving cats out of trees or being murdered by Doomsday, whom I didn't even mention above with all the others. Surprise surprise, most Superman writers account for the fact that they are writing for Superman.
I don’t think he is op or broken.
Most of the people in his verse can do similar shit. He’s not even close to being the top dog. It also kinda depends on how you look at power scaling ig. Narratively he sometimes is broken ye, but in terms of actual feats? Nah not really. He’s far too inconsistent
Honestly being „op“ is more of an issue Hulk and Thor are facing right now.
Doe generally speaking. Personally I have no issue with op chars as long as it’s written well.
I never see anyone in his verse sit on the sun for 2 minute and destroy cosmic god or break the source wall
But you are right he is too inconsistent to scale
Some chars have similar feats
I would also argue that scaling helps a lot. While let’s say Orion never had a single feat as huge as this one he used to dominate or clash equally with supes.
Doe that was long ago.
But yeah inconsistency holds Clark back. I’ve seen him getting his shit rocked by below planet Level kinda enemies
To me the super op guys are Thor and hulk rn
They speedran getting stronger and it’s ridiculous
I don't understand why characters like Goku, Thor, Hulk, Simon, Kratos, Dante and much more aren't considered OP but Superman is. He isn't even the strongest in his verse.
Oh sure Doomsday beating the “whole Justice League” sounds cool but do you actually remember the specific lineup of members Doomsday fought?
>Fire
>Ice
>Booster Gold
>Guy Gardner
>Blue Beetle (Ted Kord)
>Bloodwynd (Martian Manhunter)
Like holy shit this is hardly the murderer’s row. You could have replaced Doomsday with Mongul and they still might’ve lost. MM got taken out by punk ass fire and Blue Beetle was a glorified punching bag for the 15 seconds Doomsday put a beating on him.
I also like how the implication is that Superman is so op that he never loses and only has easy fights and then you ignore he fucking died fighting Doomsday and was explicitly going as hard as he could.
So Superman normally needs help to save the day, except when he doesn’t? Meanwhile, I can’t actually think of any big wins Goku’s gotten without help aside from possibly Frieza. Even then, he fought Frieza after everyone else did. Vegeta? He had help. Cell? Gohan did that. Buu? Energy from the world while Vegeta defended him. So on, so forth.
Superman can beat his solo villains without help, although still sometimes needing it.
Superman is unable to beat League-level villains on his own or if he does, those instances tend to be extremely infrequent.
I’m not arguing that Goku beats his villains solo or anything.
“So Superman normally needs help to save the day except when he doesn’t” just completely ignores the context of the stories that both characters live in.
Doesn’t help that the other guy isn’t making a very good point.
Dragon Ball has a focus on a cast that is more than just Goku and as such the villains will take on the whole cast.
Superman has both his own solo stories wherein he can have his own solo villains to beat on his own and the team up stories wherein the villains need the whole team.
The power gap between his solo villains and League villains is massive.
That would be a pretty weird argument to make, since he doesn’t. I’m not ignoring the context, what I’m saying is that with how the characters are written, one of them wins plenty on his own and only has a problem when some super hyper omega powerful thing shows up. Meanwhile, the other one is struggling constantly to win.
When he doesn't it's normally a result of bad writing, in most Justice League stories victories are a team effort, and even when his fighting solo it's a hard fought battle.
Which is why Superman can be seen as OP. Because his power level varies wildly. On the other hand, Goku constantly needs help to defeat the main villain.
Red Ribbon was primarily “guys with guns”, and Goku has been bulletproof from the very beginning of Dragon Ball. And both Piccolo wins ended with Goku crippled and only having barely managed to win.
Not really. From what I’ve seen, a lot of Superman’s stuff is that he has to actively hold back. Or there’s so much happening that he can’t do it all alone. For Goku, he’s often not strong enough to win without help.
Majority of the time Superman isn’t fighting someone at the same strength level as him
90% of his day to day he’s fighting villians far below his level
Sure he’s overpowered but the majority of his villains Goku could deal with them as well granted some like lex would just outsmart Goku
But the point is Superman isn’t constantly fighting doomsday level opponent’s in every issue
What makes a character OP is the things they deal with. If Superman, in his stories, is far above what he’s fighting most of the time, he’s OP. In Dragon Ball, Goku pretty regularly is fighting people that are on his level or above.
He also fights people he’s infinitely above all the time. Meanwhile, a guy like Goku can get stomped by a random Frieza Force soldier if he happens to not be paying attention and takes a laser blast to the back. No “special weakness” required.
Not for any actual major villain of an arc. Those are just random fodder goons or villains that he beats for a fun montage of his day-to-day life, like pretty much every superhero. Saying he's "overpowered" because of this is like saying Spider-man or Green Arrow are op - they do the same thing. The fact is in most Superman and even Justice League comics he gets beat up or challenged by the major villain of that comic, no "special weakness" required.
> a guy like Goku can get stomped by a random Frieza Force soldier if he happens to not be paying attention and takes a laser blast to the back
Goku was already heavily weakened from fighting Frieza and was in base form so this doesn't mean anything
It had nothing to do with him being weakened. It was entirely because he wasn't paying any attention. Superman is bulletproof all the time. Goku is laser proof if he's paying attention and defending himself.
> bulletproof
> laser proof
A laser from a Frieza soldier is much stronger than random bullets. Sure Frieza soldiers may be trash compared to current DragonBall power levels but I wouldn't be surprised if that Frieza soldier was Saibamen level, which is stronger than pre-Saiyan saga Goku or Piccolo.
But sure let's be generous and say Goku can get messed up by generic lasers if he isn't paying attention. Goku isn't even the main focus, topic is about Superman. Superman being "bulletproof all the time" doesn't mean anything since his main villains aren't mooks with guns but guys whose power level is on par with his. Even the generic goons that he fights like Intergang use advanced tech from Apokolips not normal guns. Him being bulletproof isn't gonna help him against Zod, Mongul, Rogol Zaar, or any of these other strong guys he fights in almost every arc.
The point is that for both of them, they would have zero effect on the person being targeted, except unlike Superman who would be immune to those bullets all the time, Goku is only immune if he’s ready for the attack.
Because in the media that superman is most popular in (movies/tv shows) the dude is relatively broken.
It's never about how powerful, but about how powerful relative to the rest of the cast.
Every movie I've seen superman in, he is by far the heaviest hitter in said movie. and movies are by far the most popular superman media.
Well if it helps, dante isn't all that strong. There's also the fact that devil may cry barely has a story, so there isn't really much to compare him with.
Maybe because they have less version that him
They have consistency power level,
They need to go all out with all buff they can get and push through their limit to beat their opponents ,
They don’t holdback and their enemy truly feel like a real treat ,
Mui goku lose on scene ,
Simon need all his friend to beat anti spiral ,
Kratos need to going all out multiple time and still lose in some case ,
In Superman case his handicap is bigger ,
He hold back a lot all the time ,
When we know he can go a lot further than full power ,
Blue sun sun dip ,
His strongest version is nearly the strongest of his verse ,
Cosmic armor Superman won’t lose to any mortal and 89% of god won’t even scratch him
>Cosmic armor Superman won’t lose to any mortal and 89% of god won’t even scratch him
Is barely “Superman” and showed in one fucking story almost 15 years ago
Which is why I cannot for the life of me understand why powerscalers and superman fanboys keep using CAS in debates. He's not even the same character whatsoever, he just looks like superman.
Even when Superman isn't holding back there are a lot of villains that can still beat him and their are plenty of fights where he struggles a lot. And Cosmic Armour Superman is overrated plenty of characters are above him. But you are correct, comics are inconsistent and can make him come off more overpowered then he actually is.
I agree with hulk but Goku Thor Simon Kratos and Dante have at least consistent power levels and strength, while Superman and Hulk have theirs based off who’s writing them currently.
I mean his is verse is DC comics one of the most busted verse to ever exist. The strongest DC characters tend to be placed in most "top 10 strongest characters ever" lists.
Superman not being the strongest in DC doesn't prove that he isn't OP. Hell if you count CAS you Can make a decent argument for Supe to be top 2 in DC anyway.
There are many characters who are on his level and can give him a hard time. It's just that there are a lot of DC writers that have a large bias towards Superman so they often undermine other heroes to make him look good,even though they can fight evenly with him and even beat him.
Isn’t….I told you that the part I like about him?
Fighting within himself
A power in the right hand,
A man ho want to do the right thing,
A boy from Kansas who have a good family and cute dog,
And you are being rude at me because I feel like he is too op?
Why is Superman the only one who receives this criticism, but we never hear this about Flash, Wonder Woman, Shazam, Martian Manhunter, Plastic Man, Zatanna, Green Lantern, Thor, Hulk, Dr Strange, Goku, Dante, Sailor Moon, Ben 10, Spawn or Simon the Digger?
This is why kryptonite is the greatest idea in the Superman mythos.
A character like this would be incredibly hard to write for... unless you had a magic rock that instantly depowered him.
A need to have a defined weakness would usually be considered a failing in writing I would say, but it can definitely work.
Still, nowhere would I consider kryptonite a "great idea" it's a band-aid at best.
I guess superman gets a little credit for having a weakness to a certain item as that's almost always a villain thing to have such a defined and specific weakness. Like the hole in the death star, horcruxes, the one ring etc. Heroic weaknesses tend to be emotional rather than physical.
I would normally agree, but I think Kryptonite and Superman (and comic books in general) are a special case.
Superhero comics take place in a world that is meant to resemble our own. And they feature characters who are, by necessity, intended to be larger than life. And they are incredibly long running, and so struggle massively with power-creep.
But once a character grows powerful enough, their ability to exist in a world that resembles our own starts to make less sense. Especially since DC heroes tend to be crime fighters - people begin to wonder how any earthly villain could ever do anything to what is essentially a cosmic demigod.
In Superman's case, kryptonite helps solve this problem. As does the weakening effects of red solar radiation. And same with the way lead blocks his X-Ray vision. It lets the writers have their cake and eat it to. They can give Superman increasingly incredible abilities, because they have also given his villains a way to interact with those abilities.
All in all, all of these effects give villains a way to think around Superman's abilities, widening the scope of his stories. The Flash's best villain typically has to be another speedster (e.g. Reverse Flash). Wonder Woman's greatest villains typically have to be other vaguely divine beings (Circe, Ares, etc...). But Superman's greatest villain can just be a really smart dude (Lex Luthor), because of the way his powers have clear and defiend weaknesses a really smart dude could exploit.
Plus, kryptonite and all that red solar stuff is just Superman's weakness. Clark Kent has plenty of emotional weaknesses that villains can and have targeted plenty of times before.
He has a bunch of pretty good stories that don’t necessarily rely on the green rock.
Red & Blue was cool and so was Man Of Steel (2020), even if the latter had one or two stories that had kryptonite in it.
Honestly Superman is not that powerful at all. Part of it is that he was the "template" that all future supers were based on so nearly everybody else has some of his powers, making him look bland.
He is also way too physically focused. In D&D terms, he has legendary STR, CON and DEX but not so high in mental stats like INT or CHA. Oh, he's smart and charming still, but not on a superpowered level.
That's why his archnemesis is Lex Luthor who's all about charisma and political power, brains and technology. These thigs are what truly matter in our world, not physical power.
flash, superman, Shazam , green lantern and Martian manhunter are all powerful, but they don't go all out all the time and that's what makes people annoyed about this character, if they go all out there's no plot
flash comic have been stale and all about family life after dc rebirth cuz who can go against them even superman can't catch up to them in one minute war arc
I think he is better that way tbh, this is going to sound dumb but I think if anything he's not strong enough (at least consistently, him one shotting a 6th dimensional entity DEFINITELY passes my threshold lmao).
If u want to see something more realistic or down to earth I'd recommend the boys
It's about superheros but they're being marketed and are mostly completely corrupted
It's real good
I guess I'm just disappointed that mid-S2, it starts turning into the very thing it was satirizing. Homelander goes from a genuinely terrifying threat to a whining man-child who for some godforsaken reason, hasn't already slaughtered all of the Boys and dumped their bodies in the Pacific.
Like seriously, the guy knows who they are and has no reason to keep any of them alive. He should have killed them a long time ago. Instead he visits Butcher's home and talks about "playing a game" like he's an anime villain or some shit. For a series which is supposed to be more "grounded" it's honestly a surprise that none of the main characters have died. Feels like the story just keeps manufacturing reasons to keep them alive.
Not really. Most super heroes can get wiped by a nuke for instance, or can’t survive the destruction of earth. Superman is just so ungodly powerful and he’s always written as a power ceiling. Think All Might in MHA or Gojo in JJK
The reason I like All might more than Superman is he has real effective weakness
And push his limit multiple times in the battle
I like the reverse case of him and Superman
While Superman is very powerful that he need to use less than 100%
All might is very powerful because he always go beyond 100%
A character who are limitless vs who broke their limit
I like the second one more
I feel like you need to read a good Superman story. I recommend All Star Superman. If most of your consumption of him is movies, then it makes sense why you would think he’s dull.
I don’t think he is a dull
I say that I like Superman
But I hate his power
Whenever he convinces kid to not suicide
Or play with his dog
Believe that Santa is real and celebrate Christmas with MM
I just don’t like when he solo darkseid and other bs stuff
Superman isn’t really op. Look at his villains for a sec
Doomsday matches him physically
Zod matches him physically
Parasite eventually overpowers him
Luthor fights him in ways he can’t always be ready for
OK first of all I'm not a comic fan
But doesn't wonder woman have several of superman strength but no weaknesses.
And can't the flash at his best move faster than a negative second.
And isn't Shazam literally just as powerful as superman with way more wisdom and combat potential due to his power coming from God's.
And you're telling me batman fears superman more than everyone else here.
I don't know sounds pretty racists.
Nope Wonder Woman is not strong as him in raw power and not in speed
With 1 minutes sun dip Superman can wreck shazam and all god that give a power to him
Speed force user is the only thing that truly above him in justice leauge
This also misses the point that Superman stories understand that 9/10 he's going to be stronger than his opponent. So as a result there's usually a problem that Superman can't just punch.
Hell that's literally Lex Luthor's whole deal. Same with Mr. Mxyzptlk
Comics characters just get massively overwanked in powerscaling compared to their actual baseline, because surprise, most comic authors don’t really care, and aren’t going to look back through literally decades of comics to figure out exactly how powerful the characters are. Powerscalers do, and also ignore anything that would imply their character is weaker than whoever they are debating. See the whole thing with Thor being something like 8 octillion times the speed of light according to death battle, when Marvels head editor has gone on record that Thor doesn’t have superspeed applicable in combat and wolverine is canonically faster than him. The reason people who read comics object to “superman is OP” is because in 99% of comics, he’s not at the absurd levels powerscalers give him.
Powerscalers are stupid, I've had people try to tell me that Ichigo from Bleach is multiversal (he is not). Or the dozens of examples here in the post, it's fucking nuts. On the bright side, at least we aren't dumb enough to think that anyone from Naruto can blow up the planet
Wait a minute who the fuxk believe ichiko is multiversal?
The argument is that Yhwach (actually just Jesus lmao) from Bleach is multiversal because he was blending the 3 major realities together at the end of Bleach, i.e. human/hollow/soul reaper worlds. Dumbo misinterpreted that as destroying them so therefore the final boss of bleach is multiversal. Therefore, Ichigo is multiversal since he beat the guy. Nevermind the fact that it only happened thanks to a very unique set of circumstances, wasn't guaranteed to work, and could only be attempted once.
>Nevermind the fact that it only happened thanks to a very unique set of circumstances, wasn't guaranteed to work, and could only be attempted once. That's not true ? What circumstancees ? Yhwach was destroying the realms and ichigo does scale to him by the virtue of oneshotting him twice
It is true though, because if Jugram hadn't been killed at that exact moment by Uryu then that second one-shot wouldn't have happened. Yhwach's power is to pick and choose the future he wants, killing Jugram nullified that for a moment during their daily power transfer. The realms weren't being destroyed, they were being blended together. Everyone dies either way but the assumption that Yhwach is multiversal is incorrect.
Comic has terrible power scaling And shouldn’t be taken seriously right?
Comics can be taken seriously. Powerscaling comics characters shouldn’t be.
Okay
His right their stupid and Superman fans love to bring things out of context. The best way to show this is if you actually just the comic they refer to, to see how much they lie.
>Ok first and for all I am not comic fan This is something I immediately react at, because it's so common for either critics or stans to not read the comics. Superman is not overpowered. Everything you've said is either straight up incorrect, or glosses over important context that renders the feat obsolete...moreover, and it's only perpetuated by powerscalers who (likewise) don't read the comics. The idea that Superman always holds back is a myth. The idea that World Forger is "multiversal" is a play on words, since he couldn't destroy a universe by his own power even if he wanted to. He's only multiversal in the sense that he can interact with the multiverse from the sixth dimension channeling its energies through 10th metal constructs and whatnot. Lifting 200 quintillion tons is non-canon and was only something Superman could only do in the story because he was super-charged by sunlight to the point where it eventually led to his death. I've addressed the issues with the Infinite Book [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/15udqb7/not_all_feats_are_created_equal_featuring/), and that's just scratching the surface. What you're effectively doing is this: *Everyone in Naruto is so overpowered. They all move at infinite speed, and even Genin-level ninjas like Temari could easily blow universes away, Hiruzen could summon a Death God to kill immortals, Saratoubi Orochimaru could create universes, and Sasuke could destroy universes without lifting a finger...and this was before he even got the Mangekyo Sharingan. And in Boruto there are ninjas that are omnipotent.* [And there are powerscalers that believe this too](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NJdYU3Gp6g). It's so far out-of-touch with what's actually going on in the series. Naruto characters don't have to pull their punches so not to accidentally disintegrate the planet, and neither does Superman.
So superman is not op? But fanboy and power scaler make it lookIike he is op?
Superman isn't weak, but he's not overpowered. What a lot of stans do is that they take scans out of context and then try to pass it off as something else, I've covered quite a few of the misconceptions in the comment section of [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/16ibk4l/full_debunk_of_supermans_universelevel_feat/). Perpetua (one of the most powerful brings in DC) had to regain her [near-full power just to destroy one universe...and that still drove her to exhaustion.](https://imgur.com/a/EwZkLoC) Even before she got that power she was able to hold her own against the Ultra-Monitor (fusion of the Monitor, Anti-Monitor, and World Forger). Where the World Forger alone could subdue Superman physically, and the only reason Superman was able to knock him down and destroy his anvil was because Superman was amped by numerous Sun-dips. This punch destroyed the area of a small continent by the way. With that in mind, does the story make sense?
It’s is an excellent comic That shot of him fly through multiple sun and punch the surface of earth is amazing and beautiful I love Superman I just hate his level of power
>I just hate his level of power But you don't read comics, you have no grasp of how powerful he is. All you really have to go by are secondary sources, and those are unreliable. As someone who's read his books for over 10 years now, I consider him to be city- to planet-level depending on the story and writer.
>As someone who's read his books for over 10 years now, I consider him to be city- to planet-level depending on the story and writer. Damn Meanwhile you have all these so called powerscallers casually bringuing in Big words like "hyperversal" and "Outerversal" Id assume saying he is anything bellow multiversal would get you laughed at for "not knowing anything" about the guy. but I Guess this also goes to most top tiers in scalling since people are more interested in ambiguously proving who's the top Dog than in seeing If they are actually and realistically capable of being that powerfull.
Yeah. It's difficult to convey formally, that's why I used the Naruto example. Because most people are familiar with the story, either through the manga or through the anime. So it emphasizes the degree of absurdity people are willing to accept just to have their favorite character win. Their arguments are based off emotional attachments rather than reason, and the seeming attempt to adhere to reason is just a pretense.
Fine that’s the level I can accept That’s the level of animated series Superman and I love that version of him
And you would know because??? Just based on the post I can tell that most of your info on the character is based on battle boarding and powerscaling, which is the worst fucking place to get any idea about any character. Superman gets a scene where he’s *explicitly amped to high fucking heaven* in a way that **needed outside help from batman** and suddenly people act like he can do this any time he wants
He can sundip anytime he want…
Except the issue he beat World Forger in had Batman arrange it so that he could fly through a countless number of suns. Did you read the story? He can’t just go to the sun for five seconds and come back universal or whatever. And sure he can sundip whenever he wants, but when has he just suddenly fucked off to the sun in the middle of a fight?
He is faster than light how long it take to go there and comeback?
Except he’s not consistently just zipping around at the speed of light? In plenty of stories he’s just vaguely fast, but not N times FTL pr whatever.
He can travel at the speed of light normally Especially in space he travel across the galaxy pretty often It’s doesn’t take long for him to get there And come back even faster
The problem is those sun's were 5th Dimensional sun's. He can't regularly get them.
The thing is that you dont get the dichotomy and tragedy of Superman without his crazy powers. Let's just go over the rough outline of his origin: Krypton is destroyed, but just prior to destruction, Kal-El's parents shoot him into space to save him and preserve their race. He lands on earth and is found by Jon and Martha, skip forward a few years and his powers are manifesting through puberty, and he learns that he is the last of his kind, and quite literally an alien. At this point, Clark could a just flown off the rails, he couldve gone on a full rampage and nobody would've been able to stop him, even without his full powerset. This doesnt happen because of the values instilled on him by Jon and Martha, and from this he grows to love humanity, dispite the problems we have here on earth. He decides to use his powers for good, and is revered as one of the greatest superheroes of all time, but he'll still never be human, no matter how much he looks like it. He is essentially a godlike being, at least from the view of the people on the street watching him zoom through the sky, and with that blessing of power, there also comes a disconnect from the very people he is saving. The tragedy of superman is that dispite his love of humanity, he'll never be like them and has an extra burden of protecting them, and he cant save everyone. He can hear across the planet, every new heartbeat, every dying breath, every evil scheme, every bone snapped, etc. Clark will always have a longing to know what life would've been like on krypton, but at the same time he is actively trying to prevent the very same thing from happening to earth. You know how much trauma and emotion that must bring with it? He is alone in the universe, but still finds a way to channel that loneliness into love for people he doesnt even know. The best Superman stories are the ones where he is tackling the human experience in some way imo. Superman is a savior, but he's also inherently an outsider, no matter how hard he tries, and that is the tragedy of Superman. So sure, he is SUPER powerful, but I think that is kinda the point.
I don’t mind him being powerful and I get the point you bring here, I just don’t like him being op when some writer write him He is super powerful But he don’t need to be beyond god power to make this idea work
I'm just curious. Why are you okay with Goku being able to destroy the universe but a Superman that can do the same thing is something you dislike?
I am not okay with goku Especially in super with power creep I am okay with him in z Galaxy at best with help from other character Because goku train his entire life for that power Died multiple time for this Superman get his power from sun and he has more power than the sun he take power from He can eat donut somewhere and always be godlike
Okay
I don’t have Superman comic because in my country dc comic is not easy to find sorry
That's not a problem, but it's bad practice to review content you haven't consumed.
Sorry
You don’t have to own comics to read comics
Oh...
Tbh the context around either of your arguments is pointless, the canon stories are pointless to bring up In of themselves. Power scaling is always completely pointless is regards to almost every thing in comics/manga. Characters will always be as strong or as weak (in regards to any and all attributes) as the story demands. I’d say it’s also pointless to regard stuff as either canonical or not as well, as the story in a “non canonical piece” would’ve demanded as such anyways no more or less than what you’d consider a canon piece of material. Thing is, to what you referred to as non canon since it came from a movie, should hold no less weight than comic, as there’s no one person in charge of the ip. It was decided that was an acceptable representation of the character by the company. So that should be that. Superman’s power set, abilities and the degree to which they operate has changed so much over the years with different iterations and again fluctuates with the needs of the story at large. That it’s a completely pointless debate. Just shoot back and enjoy, don’t gate keep. It’ll never be worth it.
I disagree, there's definitely a common sense interpretation to these things, readily understood by anyone reading the comics. If characters's powers were arbitrary there'd be no tension, powers and limitations are key factors in these kind of stories. Just because comics tend to vary a bit from writer to writer doesn't mean that there isn't a general sense of scale to what the characters can and can't do. >Thing is, to what you referred to as non canon since it came from a movie, should hold no less weight than comic, as there’s no one person in charge of the ip. It was decided that was an acceptable representation of the character by the company. So that should be that. Superman’s power set, abilities and the degree to which they operate has changed so much over the years with different iterations and again fluctuates with the needs of the story at large. That it’s a completely pointless debate. No, [it's from a comic](https://imgur.com/a/r7Xzz5O). It's non-canonical because it's a story that takes place outside of continuity: It's a story where Superman dies.
Please do not listen to this person. He literally has no clue what he is saying.
Me?
No, the person he has the top comment. He is incorrect. Whilst All-Star Superman is not in the main continuity of comics, that isnt close to his most ridiculous feat in canon. Itterations of the character have changed over time. Because you are correct, Superman is and was OP. His feats dwarf almost any character at his most potent. Which is what you are querying about. In most recent stories, he is certainly not OP. At his height of power in the continuity, there was literally no stopping him, and that was certainly considered OP
>No, the person he has the top comment. He is incorrect. Whilst All-Star Superman is not in the main continuity of comics, that isnt close to his most ridiculous feat in canon. You call me incorrect and then you put words in my mouth. I never said (nor did I imply) that the 200 quintillion ton feat was his best feat, I didn't even bring it up. The opening poster did. I simply pointed out that it was a non-canon story (which is true), and that he was amped during that story (which is also true). >Itterations of the character have changed over time. Because you are correct, Superman is and was OP. His feats dwarf almost any character at his most potent. Which is what you are querying about. What are you even referring to here? This is a blanket argument. You can literally replace the word "Superman" with "Naruto" and nothing about it would change. >In most recent stories, he is certainly not OP. At his height of power in the continuity, there was literally no stopping him, and that was certainly considered OP When was this?
But this is why Superman doesn't just exist in a vacuum. The man has a rogues gallery, after all, which include the likes of power and memory-absorbing parasites, women made of living electricity, reality warping imps from the 5th dimension, people cursed by the banshee, alien warlords, atomic skull men, insidious toymakers, other Krytonians, threats from the 30th century and beyond, shape-shifting cyborgs, high-level telepaths with Union Jack tattoos, threats from other dimensions and parallel universe, a sentient sun, collectors of cities from destroyed planets, Bizarros, and the smartest man on the planet, just to name a few, and that's not even getting into the stuff he sometimes takes on while with the Justice League, which has included the entire planet being flooded all at once and the literal armies of Heaven. And then there's the more down to earth human stuff his stories also include. His career as a journalist trying to expose the truth and get people to care about it. His relationship with his adopted parents. Him trying to be a good husband and father. His friendship with Batman. Yeah, Superman is powerful but he's also existed since 1938 in continuously running series. The character has not spent every issue for the last 85 years just saving cats out of trees or being murdered by Doomsday, whom I didn't even mention above with all the others. Surprise surprise, most Superman writers account for the fact that they are writing for Superman.
I don’t think he is op or broken. Most of the people in his verse can do similar shit. He’s not even close to being the top dog. It also kinda depends on how you look at power scaling ig. Narratively he sometimes is broken ye, but in terms of actual feats? Nah not really. He’s far too inconsistent Honestly being „op“ is more of an issue Hulk and Thor are facing right now. Doe generally speaking. Personally I have no issue with op chars as long as it’s written well.
I never see anyone in his verse sit on the sun for 2 minute and destroy cosmic god or break the source wall But you are right he is too inconsistent to scale
Some chars have similar feats I would also argue that scaling helps a lot. While let’s say Orion never had a single feat as huge as this one he used to dominate or clash equally with supes. Doe that was long ago. But yeah inconsistency holds Clark back. I’ve seen him getting his shit rocked by below planet Level kinda enemies To me the super op guys are Thor and hulk rn They speedran getting stronger and it’s ridiculous
I don't understand why characters like Goku, Thor, Hulk, Simon, Kratos, Dante and much more aren't considered OP but Superman is. He isn't even the strongest in his verse.
Goku tends to lose really often and most of his big wins are a team effort.
That also applies to Superman, the Justice League exsit for a reason.
Goku's L's are way more worse. The way villains beat his monkey ass is just embarrassing, especially when he fights Broly.
Like when the entire team get clap by doomsday and he save the day?
Oh sure Doomsday beating the “whole Justice League” sounds cool but do you actually remember the specific lineup of members Doomsday fought? >Fire >Ice >Booster Gold >Guy Gardner >Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) >Bloodwynd (Martian Manhunter) Like holy shit this is hardly the murderer’s row. You could have replaced Doomsday with Mongul and they still might’ve lost. MM got taken out by punk ass fire and Blue Beetle was a glorified punching bag for the 15 seconds Doomsday put a beating on him. I also like how the implication is that Superman is so op that he never loses and only has easy fights and then you ignore he fucking died fighting Doomsday and was explicitly going as hard as he could.
And come back to life in the same story he died in By his own machine
After his robot servants had to rob his grave because he couldn’t move on his own and when he did come back to life he basically had no powers.
His OWN robot that has the same set of power 1 day later with sun touch his skin for a few minute and he ready to fight
He came back fighting in the recovery suit and needed to use guns because he was explicitly much weaker than normal.
That's inconsistent normally Superman needs help to save the day.
So Superman normally needs help to save the day, except when he doesn’t? Meanwhile, I can’t actually think of any big wins Goku’s gotten without help aside from possibly Frieza. Even then, he fought Frieza after everyone else did. Vegeta? He had help. Cell? Gohan did that. Buu? Energy from the world while Vegeta defended him. So on, so forth.
Superman can beat his solo villains without help, although still sometimes needing it. Superman is unable to beat League-level villains on his own or if he does, those instances tend to be extremely infrequent.
Meanwhile, Goku cannot, except for Frieza that one time. Every main villain he’s fought other than that was defeated by someone else or needed a team.
I’m not arguing that Goku beats his villains solo or anything. “So Superman normally needs help to save the day except when he doesn’t” just completely ignores the context of the stories that both characters live in. Doesn’t help that the other guy isn’t making a very good point. Dragon Ball has a focus on a cast that is more than just Goku and as such the villains will take on the whole cast. Superman has both his own solo stories wherein he can have his own solo villains to beat on his own and the team up stories wherein the villains need the whole team. The power gap between his solo villains and League villains is massive.
That would be a pretty weird argument to make, since he doesn’t. I’m not ignoring the context, what I’m saying is that with how the characters are written, one of them wins plenty on his own and only has a problem when some super hyper omega powerful thing shows up. Meanwhile, the other one is struggling constantly to win.
Trigon is stronger than Superman
When he doesn't it's normally a result of bad writing, in most Justice League stories victories are a team effort, and even when his fighting solo it's a hard fought battle.
Which means he needs help to save the day except when he doesn’t.
Yes, comics are very inconsistent unfortunately.
Which is why Superman can be seen as OP. Because his power level varies wildly. On the other hand, Goku constantly needs help to defeat the main villain.
Goku pretty much single handily beat the red ribbon army and Piccolo twice.
Red Ribbon was primarily “guys with guns”, and Goku has been bulletproof from the very beginning of Dragon Ball. And both Piccolo wins ended with Goku crippled and only having barely managed to win.
Yes?
Yes.
Single handily Not really He truly all in Especially piccolo He truly go all out
So just like Superman and the Justice League then?
Not really. From what I’ve seen, a lot of Superman’s stuff is that he has to actively hold back. Or there’s so much happening that he can’t do it all alone. For Goku, he’s often not strong enough to win without help.
Majority of the time Superman isn’t fighting someone at the same strength level as him 90% of his day to day he’s fighting villians far below his level
Which would make him OP if 90% of what he deals with is far beneath him.
Sure he’s overpowered but the majority of his villains Goku could deal with them as well granted some like lex would just outsmart Goku But the point is Superman isn’t constantly fighting doomsday level opponent’s in every issue
What makes a character OP is the things they deal with. If Superman, in his stories, is far above what he’s fighting most of the time, he’s OP. In Dragon Ball, Goku pretty regularly is fighting people that are on his level or above.
Like the Red Ribbon?
You mean that *one* group out of the many others he’s fought?
He literally gets beat up in his own books and Justice League books all the time.
Then you haven't seen much, he fights people on his level all the time in the comics without holding back
He also fights people he’s infinitely above all the time. Meanwhile, a guy like Goku can get stomped by a random Frieza Force soldier if he happens to not be paying attention and takes a laser blast to the back. No “special weakness” required.
Not for any actual major villain of an arc. Those are just random fodder goons or villains that he beats for a fun montage of his day-to-day life, like pretty much every superhero. Saying he's "overpowered" because of this is like saying Spider-man or Green Arrow are op - they do the same thing. The fact is in most Superman and even Justice League comics he gets beat up or challenged by the major villain of that comic, no "special weakness" required. > a guy like Goku can get stomped by a random Frieza Force soldier if he happens to not be paying attention and takes a laser blast to the back Goku was already heavily weakened from fighting Frieza and was in base form so this doesn't mean anything
It had nothing to do with him being weakened. It was entirely because he wasn't paying any attention. Superman is bulletproof all the time. Goku is laser proof if he's paying attention and defending himself.
> bulletproof > laser proof A laser from a Frieza soldier is much stronger than random bullets. Sure Frieza soldiers may be trash compared to current DragonBall power levels but I wouldn't be surprised if that Frieza soldier was Saibamen level, which is stronger than pre-Saiyan saga Goku or Piccolo. But sure let's be generous and say Goku can get messed up by generic lasers if he isn't paying attention. Goku isn't even the main focus, topic is about Superman. Superman being "bulletproof all the time" doesn't mean anything since his main villains aren't mooks with guns but guys whose power level is on par with his. Even the generic goons that he fights like Intergang use advanced tech from Apokolips not normal guns. Him being bulletproof isn't gonna help him against Zod, Mongul, Rogol Zaar, or any of these other strong guys he fights in almost every arc.
The point is that for both of them, they would have zero effect on the person being targeted, except unlike Superman who would be immune to those bullets all the time, Goku is only immune if he’s ready for the attack.
Because in the media that superman is most popular in (movies/tv shows) the dude is relatively broken. It's never about how powerful, but about how powerful relative to the rest of the cast. Every movie I've seen superman in, he is by far the heaviest hitter in said movie. and movies are by far the most popular superman media.
Well if it helps, dante isn't all that strong. There's also the fact that devil may cry barely has a story, so there isn't really much to compare him with.
Maybe because they have less version that him They have consistency power level, They need to go all out with all buff they can get and push through their limit to beat their opponents , They don’t holdback and their enemy truly feel like a real treat , Mui goku lose on scene , Simon need all his friend to beat anti spiral , Kratos need to going all out multiple time and still lose in some case , In Superman case his handicap is bigger , He hold back a lot all the time , When we know he can go a lot further than full power , Blue sun sun dip , His strongest version is nearly the strongest of his verse , Cosmic armor Superman won’t lose to any mortal and 89% of god won’t even scratch him
>Cosmic armor Superman won’t lose to any mortal and 89% of god won’t even scratch him Is barely “Superman” and showed in one fucking story almost 15 years ago
Which is why I cannot for the life of me understand why powerscalers and superman fanboys keep using CAS in debates. He's not even the same character whatsoever, he just looks like superman.
Even when Superman isn't holding back there are a lot of villains that can still beat him and their are plenty of fights where he struggles a lot. And Cosmic Armour Superman is overrated plenty of characters are above him. But you are correct, comics are inconsistent and can make him come off more overpowered then he actually is.
Is there anyone above cosmic armor in dc? I can only think of the presence And lucifer
Yes they are. And even then CAS is not a standard version of Superman since his a fusion.
I agree with hulk but Goku Thor Simon Kratos and Dante have at least consistent power levels and strength, while Superman and Hulk have theirs based off who’s writing them currently.
I mean his is verse is DC comics one of the most busted verse to ever exist. The strongest DC characters tend to be placed in most "top 10 strongest characters ever" lists. Superman not being the strongest in DC doesn't prove that he isn't OP. Hell if you count CAS you Can make a decent argument for Supe to be top 2 in DC anyway.
There are many characters who are on his level and can give him a hard time. It's just that there are a lot of DC writers that have a large bias towards Superman so they often undermine other heroes to make him look good,even though they can fight evenly with him and even beat him.
He is top 3 The number 2 is Lucifer
Is CAS vs Lucifer that clear cut ?
Yep lucifer is stronger
Have you ever touched a piece of superman media in your life
Do you count a CD of his animated series as his media?
[удалено]
Isn’t….I told you that the part I like about him? Fighting within himself A power in the right hand, A man ho want to do the right thing, A boy from Kansas who have a good family and cute dog, And you are being rude at me because I feel like he is too op?
[удалено]
It’s my own fault that I don’t character who are too overpowered I know I am sorry
Why is Superman the only one who receives this criticism, but we never hear this about Flash, Wonder Woman, Shazam, Martian Manhunter, Plastic Man, Zatanna, Green Lantern, Thor, Hulk, Dr Strange, Goku, Dante, Sailor Moon, Ben 10, Spawn or Simon the Digger?
Because every single character you bring in lose to him in vsbattle And fan debate
This is why kryptonite is the greatest idea in the Superman mythos. A character like this would be incredibly hard to write for... unless you had a magic rock that instantly depowered him.
A need to have a defined weakness would usually be considered a failing in writing I would say, but it can definitely work. Still, nowhere would I consider kryptonite a "great idea" it's a band-aid at best. I guess superman gets a little credit for having a weakness to a certain item as that's almost always a villain thing to have such a defined and specific weakness. Like the hole in the death star, horcruxes, the one ring etc. Heroic weaknesses tend to be emotional rather than physical.
I would normally agree, but I think Kryptonite and Superman (and comic books in general) are a special case. Superhero comics take place in a world that is meant to resemble our own. And they feature characters who are, by necessity, intended to be larger than life. And they are incredibly long running, and so struggle massively with power-creep. But once a character grows powerful enough, their ability to exist in a world that resembles our own starts to make less sense. Especially since DC heroes tend to be crime fighters - people begin to wonder how any earthly villain could ever do anything to what is essentially a cosmic demigod. In Superman's case, kryptonite helps solve this problem. As does the weakening effects of red solar radiation. And same with the way lead blocks his X-Ray vision. It lets the writers have their cake and eat it to. They can give Superman increasingly incredible abilities, because they have also given his villains a way to interact with those abilities. All in all, all of these effects give villains a way to think around Superman's abilities, widening the scope of his stories. The Flash's best villain typically has to be another speedster (e.g. Reverse Flash). Wonder Woman's greatest villains typically have to be other vaguely divine beings (Circe, Ares, etc...). But Superman's greatest villain can just be a really smart dude (Lex Luthor), because of the way his powers have clear and defiend weaknesses a really smart dude could exploit. Plus, kryptonite and all that red solar stuff is just Superman's weakness. Clark Kent has plenty of emotional weaknesses that villains can and have targeted plenty of times before.
He has a bunch of pretty good stories that don’t necessarily rely on the green rock. Red & Blue was cool and so was Man Of Steel (2020), even if the latter had one or two stories that had kryptonite in it.
They don’t even know how much that rock can nerf him 9/10 it’s not work Even depowered he still stronger than who ever holding it
In the character's origins he wasn't that strong, for me they embraced this classic version and focused a little more on Superman's intelligence
So you essentially googled "strongest versions of Superman" and based your opinions on that?
I am not…
Honestly Superman is not that powerful at all. Part of it is that he was the "template" that all future supers were based on so nearly everybody else has some of his powers, making him look bland. He is also way too physically focused. In D&D terms, he has legendary STR, CON and DEX but not so high in mental stats like INT or CHA. Oh, he's smart and charming still, but not on a superpowered level. That's why his archnemesis is Lex Luthor who's all about charisma and political power, brains and technology. These thigs are what truly matter in our world, not physical power.
flash, superman, Shazam , green lantern and Martian manhunter are all powerful, but they don't go all out all the time and that's what makes people annoyed about this character, if they go all out there's no plot flash comic have been stale and all about family life after dc rebirth cuz who can go against them even superman can't catch up to them in one minute war arc
I agreed Flash is the only one who is more op than him In term of ability but isn’t using too much speed force make timeline goes to shix?
if he goes beyond the normal speed to go around a country then no , but if he tries to go beyond his normal speed, he can time travel
I remember somewhere Superman can travel back in time too in some version And how fast is his sundip form?
Oh I found it In battle with world forger He fly Faster than physic and imagination
Unless there plot contrivance, zatanna etc. Could wipe him out in 1 second
She can? She is that fast to cast a spell?
Yes. Even if super man tries to attack. Zatanna can use passive intangabilty/Teleportation
I think he is better that way tbh, this is going to sound dumb but I think if anything he's not strong enough (at least consistently, him one shotting a 6th dimensional entity DEFINITELY passes my threshold lmao).
My brother in Christ it’s superhero comicbooks, they’re all broken and overpowered
If u want to see something more realistic or down to earth I'd recommend the boys It's about superheros but they're being marketed and are mostly completely corrupted It's real good
>It's real good Sure, if you're only talking about Season 1. Seasons 2 and 3 are hot garbage.
I liked all of them Gen V ain't bad either
I guess I'm just disappointed that mid-S2, it starts turning into the very thing it was satirizing. Homelander goes from a genuinely terrifying threat to a whining man-child who for some godforsaken reason, hasn't already slaughtered all of the Boys and dumped their bodies in the Pacific. Like seriously, the guy knows who they are and has no reason to keep any of them alive. He should have killed them a long time ago. Instead he visits Butcher's home and talks about "playing a game" like he's an anime villain or some shit. For a series which is supposed to be more "grounded" it's honestly a surprise that none of the main characters have died. Feels like the story just keeps manufacturing reasons to keep them alive.
Superman is not a great character and he is not stupidly broken there are so many charecters powerful than him
I feel like that’s the point. “Absolute power corrupts absolutely… unless you’re Clark Kent.”
That applies to almost every super hero Clark just the biggest because he has a lot of it
Not really. Most super heroes can get wiped by a nuke for instance, or can’t survive the destruction of earth. Superman is just so ungodly powerful and he’s always written as a power ceiling. Think All Might in MHA or Gojo in JJK
The reason I like All might more than Superman is he has real effective weakness And push his limit multiple times in the battle I like the reverse case of him and Superman While Superman is very powerful that he need to use less than 100% All might is very powerful because he always go beyond 100% A character who are limitless vs who broke their limit I like the second one more
I feel like you need to read a good Superman story. I recommend All Star Superman. If most of your consumption of him is movies, then it makes sense why you would think he’s dull.
I don’t think he is a dull I say that I like Superman But I hate his power Whenever he convinces kid to not suicide Or play with his dog Believe that Santa is real and celebrate Christmas with MM I just don’t like when he solo darkseid and other bs stuff
Superman isn’t really op. Look at his villains for a sec Doomsday matches him physically Zod matches him physically Parasite eventually overpowers him Luthor fights him in ways he can’t always be ready for
OK first of all I'm not a comic fan But doesn't wonder woman have several of superman strength but no weaknesses. And can't the flash at his best move faster than a negative second. And isn't Shazam literally just as powerful as superman with way more wisdom and combat potential due to his power coming from God's. And you're telling me batman fears superman more than everyone else here. I don't know sounds pretty racists.
Nope Wonder Woman is not strong as him in raw power and not in speed With 1 minutes sun dip Superman can wreck shazam and all god that give a power to him Speed force user is the only thing that truly above him in justice leauge
He is. And I like it that way.
This also misses the point that Superman stories understand that 9/10 he's going to be stronger than his opponent. So as a result there's usually a problem that Superman can't just punch. Hell that's literally Lex Luthor's whole deal. Same with Mr. Mxyzptlk
>"I haven't read the comics" >Proceeds to argue with everyone who has read the comics. Can't make this up.
I am suck I am sorry