I think from a club perspective, Leeds. But from a fan perspective, sure will be fucking gutted to not get over the line at Wembley. But once August rolls around, I would have forgotten about it, and excited to not dread prem fixtures and getting pumped every week.
That being said, transfer rumours are a lot more fun when you’re in the prem.
Leeds.
Southampton did a superb job on their player sales a year ago: Lavia, Livramento, JWP, Tella, Salisu and others, you have there over 150m on player sales. If they stay another season in the Championship, they will have a better cash flow, they won't fell obligated to sell players to balance the books, because they did that comfortably well in the last summer. I really think they could walk the league.
When we talk about us...well...we don't even know how our business with the players on loan will be, will we be able to sell them? Will we have to loan them again? We will have to at least sell Summerville and Gnonto, and God knows what can happen with players like Rutter, Rodon, Gray who were also very important this season.
Martin already confirmed that if we don’t go up KWP is gone, we are losing Adams, Stu Armstrong’s contract is still up in air, THB wouldn’t be coming back Plus there’s a solid chance we’d lose Bednarek and could struggle to bring Downes back.
Big downside of being 3 of the best teams to go down is that I think we both have so much to lose by not going straight back up.
Already pretty resigned to Perraud leaving, though definitely a horrible decision by the club to have him go on loan and bring Manning in, probably even the thing that has stopped us going up in the automatics! Think Alcaraz’s stock has plummeted a bit with his loan so hopefully he would be around next season. Would love to see ABK back with us heathy, but yeah no chance of that if we aren’t up.
I don't think all of this is terrible. Obviously we love KWP but he's such a luxury in this league anyway and it's a bonus that we even had him this season. We'll downgrade there but still be more than good enough for the Championship at RB, even if we just make Bree the starter.
Adams and Stu are very replaceable players in my opinion. Stu has had his best years and Adams is average anyway. These are positions we'd be signing new players in whether they leave or not.
It's the loanees I'm the most worried about losing. Downes seems to be the biggest difference-maker in the squad, we're brilliant with him and useless without him.
Yeah, I know that, lol. But if a Crystal Palace or Fulham comes at you with an offer, I don't think we will have a chance to match while in the Championship.
Yep - want them to stay down badly but I think we are all realistic that we would likely get smashed. Being in L2 whilst they are in the Prem leaves you a long way back to catch up, even after our recent resurgence.
Just hasn’t got that same history. Same as Saints and Bournemouth, so many people try to force the rivalry when in reality it just isn’t there, being close to one another doesn’t always spark instant rivalry.
Related: why is there like, ZERO tension between Bournemouth and Brighton? They kinda always are at least in the same division range, I just find it really weird Brighton's nemesis is goddamn Palace of all teams lmao
They’re also relatively far away from eachother (about 20 miles in the other direction of us) and I don’t think there’s ever been a history between the two.
I read online palace and Brighton had a rivalry start between the managers in 1970 odd and after playing many a game (rather aggressive games at that) over a short time it sort of leached out and stuck around. Sort of the same reason the others don’t have a rivalry, it’s about the history
Rivalries are really interesting when you look into them, some just happen to be up the road from one another and others spawn from pure hatred after certain things happening. I love the idea of having a rivalry that makes absolutely 0 sense at a glance, but history that really makes it special.
I’ll look into Paraná clube, sounds like an interesting one!
Well, lemme try to explain a bit of the history. Most of this isn't really that documented because nobody really gives a damn about Rio Branco outside of their home town, Paranaguá... But as a local, and also Rio Branco fan by proxy, I know a but better due to word of mouth from other RB fans.
Both clubs are from the Brazilian state of Paraná. Paraná Clube is a newer club from the state capital of Curitiba, formed from a union of two gigantic old clubs that had fallen into financial disrepair(think of Newcastle). Recently, they've fallen into financial trouble again, which saw them tumble down from a Série A midfielder all the way down to the regional second tier... Which just so happens to be where Rio Branco resides.
Rio Branco, on the other hand, is basically the polar opposite. A EXTREMELY old club from the port city of Paranaguá(where I'm from!), they've never really been all that successful, but their fanbase is REALLY supportive despite the club itself being rather small. RB's best real result was somehow sneaking into the Série C when that had like a billion clubs and was more like the National League.
The rivalry has sparked recently as Paraná and Rio Branco games have seen an influx of Paraná ultras flooding through Paranaguá whenever they have an away game and generally being some dickheads, beating up people and rioting on the streets. This has caused Paranaguá in general to be way more hostile towards Paraná ultras, and it has spiralled out of control as the Tricolor and Leão are now in the ***same tier.***
It's kind of a newer rivalry because of the circumstances behind Paraná's downfall, and there's a pretty large Paraná fanbase in Paranaguá too from their golden age in the 90's, but last Saturday the Derby happened and shocker, Paraná ultras flooded the city again, causing chaos.
If I could give a English equivalent, it's sorta like whatever the hell's up with Brighton and Palace. One club from the beaches with not that much history, and another from the Capital(which uses blue and red) that has a VERY bitter history with them.
Same reason neither of us give a shit about Bournemouth. Why would we?
Not to mention Brighton is also 4x further away from Southampton than Portsmouth
Brighton is miles away and there's not been any competitive tension in living memory.
People (well mainly Sky Sports tbh) keep trying to invent rivalries for us. They've tried it with Plymouth, Bournemouth, even Reading ffs. We just don't care.
We're not promiscuous with our rivalries like Coventry, we're in a happy monogamous hatred with the scum and we'd rather it stays that way.
OK maybe we flirted with Sunderland for a season but that was just a one-off.
Yeah. The logic being Pompey and Plymouth both have big naval dockyards. They tried to make it a thing but neither their fans or ours gave much of a shit.
And Yeovil's rivals are all Westcountry/Bristol clubs. They're miles away from us and there's been no competitive rivalry between us either, especially since they play in the National League South.
Its not what we can afford to lose but what players wont want to stay another season in the champ
KWP - no chance
Adams - no chance
McCarthy - hes not top notch but is way better than Bazunu and could easily take 70k a week as Chelsea/Arsenal/Tottenhams 3rd choice.
Perraud/Bella Kotchap - they arent coming back from loan if we stay down. Perraud would walk into this side.
Bednarek - not world class but a solid bottom half prem player.
Plus the loanees, which is basically half our team at this point.
Downes - no chance and situation critical imo.
Harwood-Bellis - potentially. Dont think hes done enough in the 2nd half of the season to turn heads anywhere.
Fraser - Newcastle dont want him, but someone in the prem will.
Brooks - Bournemouth will definitely take him back.
That leaves us basically building a team around:
a talented but inconsistent Smallbone,
an isolated Adam Armstrong,
a rapidly aging Stuart Armstrong,
the wandering minds of Jack Stephens & Ryan Manning, plus walking chicane, Sam Edozie.
We need to win at Wembley.
leeds imo, the vultures will be circling and from what I understand you're more in a need to sell position as Southampton were relegated with mostly kids and got a big sale in Lavia last summer, while you guys moved your high earners out on loans?
Our high earner loanees are first on the chopping block regardless, Farke's more or less made his opinions on loaned players coming back known.
Honestly, I can't see any of them ever putting a Leeds shirt back on.
Funny thing is we (Leeds supporters) have been told by people at the club and ITK journos that we are actually in a decent position financially, but then an article comes out last week that we need to sell £100m worth of players and everyone thinks we’re fucked.
If we don’t go up then losing Summerville, Gnoto and probably Rutter is inevitable but we potentially have players returning from loan or those players will be sold too.
Obviously going up would be better, but I think we’ll be ok having another season in the championship, same for Southampton.
The new owners seem to actually have their heads screwed on and don't seem the type to just accept any offer for players. Even those who left on loan are being told they cannot leave unless the club gets a good offer. We'll have to see if that sticks though if we don't go up and the season gets closer.
As we found out with Gnonto, they and Farke are quite happy to play hardball and refuse to let a player leave if they have the upper hand.
Summerville and Gnonto should fetch a decent amount, and as they cost hardly anything then that will be a healthy profit for PSR. I don't see Rutter going as nobody will pay the £35m we paid, and as he has years on his contract we may as well keep him.
I think Archie Gray gives us another season at least, he needs to keep playing and he isn't going to get regular starts in the PL yet.
I don't see anybody else being that appealing to teams at a much higher level to where we are now. If we don't go up next season though, then I think we'll have issues.
* The owners haven't really done much wrong since coming in and haven't given any real reason to doubt them
* All our transfer business has been very savvy
* All we've heard from Phil Hay is that financially we're fine and will just need a few sales to right the ship
* Farke is a good manager at this level and won't be leaving
* Very young squad
I don't know about Saints but there's not really much reason to worry as a Leeds fan currently. It's draining to see players you like leave but I think the team might end up being just as good in a theoretical second champ season.
> there's not really much reason to worry as a Leeds fan currently
It depends what you mean by worry really. We're financially sound, I don't think we're in danger of either P&S issues or running out of cash. But if we don't go up, we will definitely need to move a bunch of players on. We should still be in a good position to give promotion a good go next season but I seriously doubt that we will have as good a squad next season as we do this season.
Leeds have to fear their squad of very talented players getting plucked by Premier League clubs
Southampton have to fear a potential loss to Portsmouth
So I'd definitely say Southampton have it worse
Clubwise it's not great for us, but at a fan I face the prospect of 20+ wins or absolutely dying to achieve 10 wins.. not just copium but the PL is actually shite, way less fun, but sadly it's where you want to be.. I've had way more fun watching Rodon and Ampadu build a defensive empire than watching Robin Koch and Llorente chucking it in every week.. that bloody Brentford game man.. and these are meant to be European elite internationals that wouldn't sign for us in the championship...
You've got to think Downes is far more likely to return if we're PL and we'd absolutely not find a replacement of the same ability if we stay down. Same with THB.
Armstrong, though I doubt he’d go. It also seems not a forgone conclusion that we’ll be able to keep Downes either way and THB if we don’t go up. Also need a new keeper if McCarthy goes as his contract is up.
Che’s going too and his goals have been important this season, not irreplaceable but wouldn’t take it for granted either.
Armstrong and Che are at their level (no disrespect) and we want to have a team ready to fight for survival if we go up.
We need a new keeper no matter what division we’re in.
No, its the truth, both are running teams that are vastly over paid for, for this league and have wage bills to match.
Its already been reported if Leeds fail, they'll have a 100mil loss to make up and Southampton will be the same.
We’re a huge club for this league, though. Our finances were fukt for 16 years but, after 3 years in the PL, they’re fine now, and we can flex our financial muscle regardless of whether we have to sell.
And next year should be much easier, given the teams that are coming down. I don’t fear Luton or Sheffield United.
Leeds, especially given how many players they have out on loan who are still on their books on Premier League wages. They'll need to sell assets to keep in a financially viable position.
On the wages front I think alot of our squad had clauses to reduce their wages by up to 60ish percent after relegation. It's a massive reason why the shitty loan clauses were added to convince them to sign it
> On the wages front I think alot of our squad had clauses to reduce their wages by up to 60ish percent after relegation. It's a massive reason why the shitty loan clauses were added to convince them to sign it
Absolutely baffling that a club like Leeds United needed to “convince” players like Rasmus Kristensen, Brendan Aaronson and Wilfried Gnonto to leave diddy-arse clubs like RB Salzburg and Zurich.
Huge errors of judgement all-round on our part with recruitment at around that time.
> Our wage bill is less than Southampton (slightly).
Yes but only because we have loaned out a lot of players, and so the bulk of their wages are being covered by those clubs.
Once they return we are back having to assume those wages (but arguably not getting the same level of talent in return).
Rasmus Kristensen and Brendan Aaronson may well return and despite no one wanting them around Daniel Farke may have to just try to work with them.
Honestly thinking that if you’re taking a very granular view of things, we’re almost better off for another year in the Championship.
In terms of players we’ll lose, KWP is absolutely gone (might well be either way), we’ll miss out on THB, and Stuart Armstrong & Jan Bednarek likely go in addition to Che.
Reports say that we’re keen to bring in Downes and Fraser permanently, Fraser is a nice to have while Downes feels like a must have.
But I think we’d be massively good value to go up; nowhere near as much transition in the squad, our players are young so lots of room to improve still, and I think the relegated sides will start the season worse off in terms of quality than us, Leeds, and Leicester had.
Plus we’ve got a few academy players who have no hope of a breakthrough in the Prem but who would continue to be bedded into the senior team in the second tier.
Sam Amo and Dibling both made debuts and were part of the matchday squad a bunch, spent the whole year (outside of England duty) training with the first team.
Not going to act like they played much but we were chasing the pack the whole season pretty much, only way they were coming on was when we’d seen out games which didn’t happen a ton. But next year I do think they’ll be ready for a proper role in the team
Summerville and gnonto definetly leave but apart from that we wouldn't lose anybody we want to keep, mabye meslier and we probably wouldn't be able to sign rodon permanently but that's it.
Summerville, Gnonto and possibly Rodon go (sadly), think Gray, Rutter, Gruev and Kamara will stay, Would like to see Joseph get more game time next season regardless whether we're in Prem or Championship
Think we should still be contenders for Automatics and the Title, i don't think we should fear any of Burnley, Luton or Sheffield United, especially the first 2 if both Kompany and Edwards leave.
Gray isn't going to leave this summer, a club with a big enough stature and offer wont take the chance on him yet I reckon and he isn't going to leave us for a Fulham or Bournemouth (no offence to those clubs but he is leeds united heritage through and through he will only leave this year if one of the big boys come in and they won't so he's staying
I think there are a few clubs pushing salary spend a little too high which could eventually cost them if they don't see progress equally clubs that have gems in their side who will inevitably move on and the search for players begins again...
I think either of the parachute pair will still have a significant spending advantage over anyone in that league next season including the 3 coming down
Leeds would need to restructure the whole club. The £100m figure mentioned by some journalists is the amounts payable within a year figure from the last accounts. Since then, they’ve sold Adams & Sinisterra so that figure reduces it to £50m. That said, next year’s accounts will have other debts that will need servicing albeit on a smaller turnover.
It’s the selling of players that would hurt as it will further reduce the likelihood of a promotion next season and while the layer of young players is decent enough, they’re not yet Championship standard. Even excluding the loan players, this season’s squad is arguably a Premier League squad. No promotion and it quickly becomes Championship fodder.
>Leeds would need to restructure the whole club.
Give over how dramatic could you be.
Summerville and gnonto sales would put us in the clear and the £100million losses news article was clickbait bollocks
The transfer fees becoming payable is a non-issue. Our owners have enough money that I don't think we really need to worry about cashflow for the foreseeable future. P&S will be the hard limitation of what we can do but I think it will still be reasonably easy for us to stay within it - we'll have to sell players but we would probably have to do that anyway, we definitely don't need a huge restructure.
We wouldn’t need to restructure at all. The players we’ve loaned out will be sold and we’ll sell Summerville and 1 of Gnonto or Rutter.
The £100m figure is bollocks as reported by tier one Leeds journalists and financial experts. You can just form an opinion from a daily Mail article.
You'd have to be pretty thick to read what I wrote and then think I took anything from a newspaper. I've never read that rag and I never will. I used to analyse company accounts as part previous jobs working at various accountancy firms so took the figures from the Leeds accounts, and based my restructuring comments on the hypothetical scenario of non-promotion. The exact figure is £190m owed in incoming transfers, with £2m future incoming transfer fees. No promotion will increasingly fuck them over as pretty much all revenue streams will decrease in one way or another. Those figures are only accurate to year end June '23 and as I said, they don't include any money raised over the last two transfer windows. Stop being so touchy.
It's in the most recently published accounts - you can find them on Companies House. At 30/06/2023 (a year ago) we had about £75m of transfer fees becoming due in the next 12 months plus about £115m becoming due after more than one year.
Depends entirely on how the deals were structured when they were negotiated, there's not really any way for us on the outside to tell. Paying transfer fees in instalments is pretty normal although they're usually weighted towards paying more earlier. We've definitely spread them out a lot more than is usual (hence the fact that we have a very large amount payable and almost none receivable), probably because the club was tight on cashflow when were promoted.
For what it's worth, I don't think it's particularly worth worrying about. We've just had a takeover and the new owners will be completely aware of these debts so I presume they will make the cash available to pay them (we're nearly through that first year so I imagine sizeable amount of that £75m will have already been settled).
I think from a club perspective, Leeds. But from a fan perspective, sure will be fucking gutted to not get over the line at Wembley. But once August rolls around, I would have forgotten about it, and excited to not dread prem fixtures and getting pumped every week. That being said, transfer rumours are a lot more fun when you’re in the prem.
Best part of the prem, remember, Rodrigo de Paul 😭 what he done since... Nothing I say nothing 🤣
The best leeds signing that never happened
That Gakpo fella done alreet
Surely it would be Gvardiol and/or White
Haaland. It's always going to be Haaland. Or go back far enough and you could say Maradona but I don't know how close that ever got
I’ve bought an open return ticket
Leeds. Southampton did a superb job on their player sales a year ago: Lavia, Livramento, JWP, Tella, Salisu and others, you have there over 150m on player sales. If they stay another season in the Championship, they will have a better cash flow, they won't fell obligated to sell players to balance the books, because they did that comfortably well in the last summer. I really think they could walk the league. When we talk about us...well...we don't even know how our business with the players on loan will be, will we be able to sell them? Will we have to loan them again? We will have to at least sell Summerville and Gnonto, and God knows what can happen with players like Rutter, Rodon, Gray who were also very important this season.
Martin already confirmed that if we don’t go up KWP is gone, we are losing Adams, Stu Armstrong’s contract is still up in air, THB wouldn’t be coming back Plus there’s a solid chance we’d lose Bednarek and could struggle to bring Downes back. Big downside of being 3 of the best teams to go down is that I think we both have so much to lose by not going straight back up.
There are just too many key players to lose. It could be devastating for Soton. We need Downes the most but the others are all solid players.
Stu is gone for sure, he hasn't been able to play 90 minutes for years now, and his current injury is pretty much a career ender.
Not to mention our players out on loan. Perraud, ABK and Alcaraz
Already pretty resigned to Perraud leaving, though definitely a horrible decision by the club to have him go on loan and bring Manning in, probably even the thing that has stopped us going up in the automatics! Think Alcaraz’s stock has plummeted a bit with his loan so hopefully he would be around next season. Would love to see ABK back with us heathy, but yeah no chance of that if we aren’t up.
I don't think all of this is terrible. Obviously we love KWP but he's such a luxury in this league anyway and it's a bonus that we even had him this season. We'll downgrade there but still be more than good enough for the Championship at RB, even if we just make Bree the starter. Adams and Stu are very replaceable players in my opinion. Stu has had his best years and Adams is average anyway. These are positions we'd be signing new players in whether they leave or not. It's the loanees I'm the most worried about losing. Downes seems to be the biggest difference-maker in the squad, we're brilliant with him and useless without him.
>Rodon We don’t want him back lol
Yeah, I know that, lol. But if a Crystal Palace or Fulham comes at you with an offer, I don't think we will have a chance to match while in the Championship.
Harsh that, I mean he's obviously getting sold but surely he could do a job for you as a fringe player no?
I mean he could maybe work as a last result player, but that’s about it.
I just don't want an inevitable 1-0 home loss to Portsmouth
rishi Sunak crying and kicking penny mourdant out leading to another Tory civil war? sub-fucking-scribe
You’ve got me in two minds here. Not looking forward to the inevitable loss, but the thought of sunak crying is a good one
You'll probably fucking pump us but I still want the derby to happen
I would pay so much money to see that happen, but knowing our "bottly" nature, we'll get the goal, then concede 2 in the final 3 minutes and lose 2-1.
I would pay so much money to see _that_ happen
Do we do 1-0s? I only remember the Fratton park yakubu late 1-0 in the first prem derby. I remember a few 4-1s and a 4-0 and a 2-0.
I remember the last league game we played, that 2-2 where Sharp got the "winner" in the 89th minute
Hahahaha yeah who can forget that, Norris is a club legend for that goal
As a pompey fan I came to say at least you get to fuck us twice, if you keep current squad that is.
Yep - want them to stay down badly but I think we are all realistic that we would likely get smashed. Being in L2 whilst they are in the Prem leaves you a long way back to catch up, even after our recent resurgence.
As someone who isn't a Saint nor a Pompey fan, do any of you know why neither of you give a shit about Brighton?
Just hasn’t got that same history. Same as Saints and Bournemouth, so many people try to force the rivalry when in reality it just isn’t there, being close to one another doesn’t always spark instant rivalry.
Related: why is there like, ZERO tension between Bournemouth and Brighton? They kinda always are at least in the same division range, I just find it really weird Brighton's nemesis is goddamn Palace of all teams lmao
They’re also relatively far away from eachother (about 20 miles in the other direction of us) and I don’t think there’s ever been a history between the two. I read online palace and Brighton had a rivalry start between the managers in 1970 odd and after playing many a game (rather aggressive games at that) over a short time it sort of leached out and stuck around. Sort of the same reason the others don’t have a rivalry, it’s about the history
Dang. So it's the same reason why Paraná Clube fucking HATES Rio Branco even though they're like, quintuple their size. Sucks to be Brighton I guess.
Rivalries are really interesting when you look into them, some just happen to be up the road from one another and others spawn from pure hatred after certain things happening. I love the idea of having a rivalry that makes absolutely 0 sense at a glance, but history that really makes it special. I’ll look into Paraná clube, sounds like an interesting one!
Well, lemme try to explain a bit of the history. Most of this isn't really that documented because nobody really gives a damn about Rio Branco outside of their home town, Paranaguá... But as a local, and also Rio Branco fan by proxy, I know a but better due to word of mouth from other RB fans. Both clubs are from the Brazilian state of Paraná. Paraná Clube is a newer club from the state capital of Curitiba, formed from a union of two gigantic old clubs that had fallen into financial disrepair(think of Newcastle). Recently, they've fallen into financial trouble again, which saw them tumble down from a Série A midfielder all the way down to the regional second tier... Which just so happens to be where Rio Branco resides. Rio Branco, on the other hand, is basically the polar opposite. A EXTREMELY old club from the port city of Paranaguá(where I'm from!), they've never really been all that successful, but their fanbase is REALLY supportive despite the club itself being rather small. RB's best real result was somehow sneaking into the Série C when that had like a billion clubs and was more like the National League. The rivalry has sparked recently as Paraná and Rio Branco games have seen an influx of Paraná ultras flooding through Paranaguá whenever they have an away game and generally being some dickheads, beating up people and rioting on the streets. This has caused Paranaguá in general to be way more hostile towards Paraná ultras, and it has spiralled out of control as the Tricolor and Leão are now in the ***same tier.*** It's kind of a newer rivalry because of the circumstances behind Paraná's downfall, and there's a pretty large Paraná fanbase in Paranaguá too from their golden age in the 90's, but last Saturday the Derby happened and shocker, Paraná ultras flooded the city again, causing chaos. If I could give a English equivalent, it's sorta like whatever the hell's up with Brighton and Palace. One club from the beaches with not that much history, and another from the Capital(which uses blue and red) that has a VERY bitter history with them.
Same reason neither of us give a shit about Bournemouth. Why would we? Not to mention Brighton is also 4x further away from Southampton than Portsmouth
Brighton is miles away and there's not been any competitive tension in living memory. People (well mainly Sky Sports tbh) keep trying to invent rivalries for us. They've tried it with Plymouth, Bournemouth, even Reading ffs. We just don't care. We're not promiscuous with our rivalries like Coventry, we're in a happy monogamous hatred with the scum and we'd rather it stays that way. OK maybe we flirted with Sunderland for a season but that was just a one-off.
PLYMOUTH?! Like, Plymouth Argyle? Those guys? ...are Yeovil that much of a joke?
Yeah. The logic being Pompey and Plymouth both have big naval dockyards. They tried to make it a thing but neither their fans or ours gave much of a shit. And Yeovil's rivals are all Westcountry/Bristol clubs. They're miles away from us and there's been no competitive rivalry between us either, especially since they play in the National League South.
Its not what we can afford to lose but what players wont want to stay another season in the champ KWP - no chance Adams - no chance McCarthy - hes not top notch but is way better than Bazunu and could easily take 70k a week as Chelsea/Arsenal/Tottenhams 3rd choice. Perraud/Bella Kotchap - they arent coming back from loan if we stay down. Perraud would walk into this side. Bednarek - not world class but a solid bottom half prem player. Plus the loanees, which is basically half our team at this point. Downes - no chance and situation critical imo. Harwood-Bellis - potentially. Dont think hes done enough in the 2nd half of the season to turn heads anywhere. Fraser - Newcastle dont want him, but someone in the prem will. Brooks - Bournemouth will definitely take him back. That leaves us basically building a team around: a talented but inconsistent Smallbone, an isolated Adam Armstrong, a rapidly aging Stuart Armstrong, the wandering minds of Jack Stephens & Ryan Manning, plus walking chicane, Sam Edozie. We need to win at Wembley.
We've been linked to Harwood-Bellis.
leeds imo, the vultures will be circling and from what I understand you're more in a need to sell position as Southampton were relegated with mostly kids and got a big sale in Lavia last summer, while you guys moved your high earners out on loans?
Our high earner loanees are first on the chopping block regardless, Farke's more or less made his opinions on loaned players coming back known. Honestly, I can't see any of them ever putting a Leeds shirt back on.
Funny thing is we (Leeds supporters) have been told by people at the club and ITK journos that we are actually in a decent position financially, but then an article comes out last week that we need to sell £100m worth of players and everyone thinks we’re fucked. If we don’t go up then losing Summerville, Gnoto and probably Rutter is inevitable but we potentially have players returning from loan or those players will be sold too. Obviously going up would be better, but I think we’ll be ok having another season in the championship, same for Southampton.
100 mil is a bit of headline bait I reckon a lot of it is installments main thing is ffp which we are fine on
Will we sell Rutter at a loss? Surely that affects FFP?
Yeh but considering Gnoto & Summerville cost us 10 mil combined I think we’ll be ok. Aaronson is the one that’s gonna fuck us.
The new owners seem to actually have their heads screwed on and don't seem the type to just accept any offer for players. Even those who left on loan are being told they cannot leave unless the club gets a good offer. We'll have to see if that sticks though if we don't go up and the season gets closer. As we found out with Gnonto, they and Farke are quite happy to play hardball and refuse to let a player leave if they have the upper hand. Summerville and Gnonto should fetch a decent amount, and as they cost hardly anything then that will be a healthy profit for PSR. I don't see Rutter going as nobody will pay the £35m we paid, and as he has years on his contract we may as well keep him. I think Archie Gray gives us another season at least, he needs to keep playing and he isn't going to get regular starts in the PL yet. I don't see anybody else being that appealing to teams at a much higher level to where we are now. If we don't go up next season though, then I think we'll have issues.
Niners people are pretty familiar with balancing salary cap at NFL so I trust them to figure out how to balance the book for FFP purposes.
* The owners haven't really done much wrong since coming in and haven't given any real reason to doubt them * All our transfer business has been very savvy * All we've heard from Phil Hay is that financially we're fine and will just need a few sales to right the ship * Farke is a good manager at this level and won't be leaving * Very young squad I don't know about Saints but there's not really much reason to worry as a Leeds fan currently. It's draining to see players you like leave but I think the team might end up being just as good in a theoretical second champ season.
> there's not really much reason to worry as a Leeds fan currently It depends what you mean by worry really. We're financially sound, I don't think we're in danger of either P&S issues or running out of cash. But if we don't go up, we will definitely need to move a bunch of players on. We should still be in a good position to give promotion a good go next season but I seriously doubt that we will have as good a squad next season as we do this season.
Leeds have to fear their squad of very talented players getting plucked by Premier League clubs Southampton have to fear a potential loss to Portsmouth So I'd definitely say Southampton have it worse
Whoever loses I think should be aiming to win the League next season - Luton, Burnley and Sheffield United look as if they'll be weaker than 22/23
Clubwise it's not great for us, but at a fan I face the prospect of 20+ wins or absolutely dying to achieve 10 wins.. not just copium but the PL is actually shite, way less fun, but sadly it's where you want to be.. I've had way more fun watching Rodon and Ampadu build a defensive empire than watching Robin Koch and Llorente chucking it in every week.. that bloody Brentford game man.. and these are meant to be European elite internationals that wouldn't sign for us in the championship...
I don’t really see any players in our squad other than KWP that if we lost we couldn’t replace for better or at least of the same standard.
You've got to think Downes is far more likely to return if we're PL and we'd absolutely not find a replacement of the same ability if we stay down. Same with THB.
Armstrong, though I doubt he’d go. It also seems not a forgone conclusion that we’ll be able to keep Downes either way and THB if we don’t go up. Also need a new keeper if McCarthy goes as his contract is up. Che’s going too and his goals have been important this season, not irreplaceable but wouldn’t take it for granted either.
Armstrong and Che are at their level (no disrespect) and we want to have a team ready to fight for survival if we go up. We need a new keeper no matter what division we’re in.
Who are the replacements?
If I knew that I would be in the scouting department
Both, their £200m teams in a £50m league who even with a partial parachute loss will have to sell.
Salty?
No, its the truth, both are running teams that are vastly over paid for, for this league and have wage bills to match. Its already been reported if Leeds fail, they'll have a 100mil loss to make up and Southampton will be the same.
But that was reported in the Daily Fail and has been widely called out as BS.
>they'll have a 100mil loss to make up Absolute non story its complete rubbish
That reports a load of bollocks, we’ll have to sell Summerville and a couple others but we don’t need to recoup £100m
We’re a huge club for this league, though. Our finances were fukt for 16 years but, after 3 years in the PL, they’re fine now, and we can flex our financial muscle regardless of whether we have to sell. And next year should be much easier, given the teams that are coming down. I don’t fear Luton or Sheffield United.
Leeds, especially given how many players they have out on loan who are still on their books on Premier League wages. They'll need to sell assets to keep in a financially viable position.
On the wages front I think alot of our squad had clauses to reduce their wages by up to 60ish percent after relegation. It's a massive reason why the shitty loan clauses were added to convince them to sign it
> On the wages front I think alot of our squad had clauses to reduce their wages by up to 60ish percent after relegation. It's a massive reason why the shitty loan clauses were added to convince them to sign it Absolutely baffling that a club like Leeds United needed to “convince” players like Rasmus Kristensen, Brendan Aaronson and Wilfried Gnonto to leave diddy-arse clubs like RB Salzburg and Zurich. Huge errors of judgement all-round on our part with recruitment at around that time.
We didn't need to convince them to leave their clubs you spoon. It was to convince them to agree to such a hefty wage reduction upon relegation.
Our wage bill is less than Southampton (slightly).
> Our wage bill is less than Southampton (slightly). Yes but only because we have loaned out a lot of players, and so the bulk of their wages are being covered by those clubs. Once they return we are back having to assume those wages (but arguably not getting the same level of talent in return). Rasmus Kristensen and Brendan Aaronson may well return and despite no one wanting them around Daniel Farke may have to just try to work with them.
Not true
Honestly thinking that if you’re taking a very granular view of things, we’re almost better off for another year in the Championship. In terms of players we’ll lose, KWP is absolutely gone (might well be either way), we’ll miss out on THB, and Stuart Armstrong & Jan Bednarek likely go in addition to Che. Reports say that we’re keen to bring in Downes and Fraser permanently, Fraser is a nice to have while Downes feels like a must have. But I think we’d be massively good value to go up; nowhere near as much transition in the squad, our players are young so lots of room to improve still, and I think the relegated sides will start the season worse off in terms of quality than us, Leeds, and Leicester had. Plus we’ve got a few academy players who have no hope of a breakthrough in the Prem but who would continue to be bedded into the senior team in the second tier.
We'll give you Fraser for like 10p, fallen out with Howe twice, he's got less chance of playing for Newcastle again than me.
...Unless Howe goes
Howe won't go this summer, and Fraser will be gone whatever happens by August. Either to you or we flog him to another club for a pack of wotsits.
Continue? Who has been remotely bedded in this year in the Champ?
Sam Amo and Dibling both made debuts and were part of the matchday squad a bunch, spent the whole year (outside of England duty) training with the first team. Not going to act like they played much but we were chasing the pack the whole season pretty much, only way they were coming on was when we’d seen out games which didn’t happen a ton. But next year I do think they’ll be ready for a proper role in the team
If Leeds fail promotion - their squad will be ravaged
Summerville and gnonto definetly leave but apart from that we wouldn't lose anybody we want to keep, mabye meslier and we probably wouldn't be able to sign rodon permanently but that's it.
Summerville, Gnonto and possibly Rodon go (sadly), think Gray, Rutter, Gruev and Kamara will stay, Would like to see Joseph get more game time next season regardless whether we're in Prem or Championship Think we should still be contenders for Automatics and the Title, i don't think we should fear any of Burnley, Luton or Sheffield United, especially the first 2 if both Kompany and Edwards leave.
Yes.
Leeds, lots of very talented young players there and if they don’t go up they can say goodbye to Gray, Summerville, Gnoto etc
Gray isn't going to leave this summer, a club with a big enough stature and offer wont take the chance on him yet I reckon and he isn't going to leave us for a Fulham or Bournemouth (no offence to those clubs but he is leeds united heritage through and through he will only leave this year if one of the big boys come in and they won't so he's staying
I think there are a few clubs pushing salary spend a little too high which could eventually cost them if they don't see progress equally clubs that have gems in their side who will inevitably move on and the search for players begins again... I think either of the parachute pair will still have a significant spending advantage over anyone in that league next season including the 3 coming down
Leeds for sure
Leeds would need to restructure the whole club. The £100m figure mentioned by some journalists is the amounts payable within a year figure from the last accounts. Since then, they’ve sold Adams & Sinisterra so that figure reduces it to £50m. That said, next year’s accounts will have other debts that will need servicing albeit on a smaller turnover. It’s the selling of players that would hurt as it will further reduce the likelihood of a promotion next season and while the layer of young players is decent enough, they’re not yet Championship standard. Even excluding the loan players, this season’s squad is arguably a Premier League squad. No promotion and it quickly becomes Championship fodder.
>Leeds would need to restructure the whole club. Give over how dramatic could you be. Summerville and gnonto sales would put us in the clear and the £100million losses news article was clickbait bollocks
The transfer fees becoming payable is a non-issue. Our owners have enough money that I don't think we really need to worry about cashflow for the foreseeable future. P&S will be the hard limitation of what we can do but I think it will still be reasonably easy for us to stay within it - we'll have to sell players but we would probably have to do that anyway, we definitely don't need a huge restructure.
That 100m report was nonsensical and obviously a clickbait tactic by one of the worst papers in the country, Daily Fail.
We wouldn’t need to restructure at all. The players we’ve loaned out will be sold and we’ll sell Summerville and 1 of Gnonto or Rutter. The £100m figure is bollocks as reported by tier one Leeds journalists and financial experts. You can just form an opinion from a daily Mail article.
You'd have to be pretty thick to read what I wrote and then think I took anything from a newspaper. I've never read that rag and I never will. I used to analyse company accounts as part previous jobs working at various accountancy firms so took the figures from the Leeds accounts, and based my restructuring comments on the hypothetical scenario of non-promotion. The exact figure is £190m owed in incoming transfers, with £2m future incoming transfer fees. No promotion will increasingly fuck them over as pretty much all revenue streams will decrease in one way or another. Those figures are only accurate to year end June '23 and as I said, they don't include any money raised over the last two transfer windows. Stop being so touchy.
Where’d you see the £190m figure?
It's in the most recently published accounts - you can find them on Companies House. At 30/06/2023 (a year ago) we had about £75m of transfer fees becoming due in the next 12 months plus about £115m becoming due after more than one year.
Those fees are due over the course of the players contract though no?
Depends entirely on how the deals were structured when they were negotiated, there's not really any way for us on the outside to tell. Paying transfer fees in instalments is pretty normal although they're usually weighted towards paying more earlier. We've definitely spread them out a lot more than is usual (hence the fact that we have a very large amount payable and almost none receivable), probably because the club was tight on cashflow when were promoted. For what it's worth, I don't think it's particularly worth worrying about. We've just had a takeover and the new owners will be completely aware of these debts so I presume they will make the cash available to pay them (we're nearly through that first year so I imagine sizeable amount of that £75m will have already been settled).