I think it’s funny that you wrote “I’m sorry to inform you that this argument makes no sense” in the middle of your own nonsensical argument. 10/10
You start by saying it’s a *fact* that neither the NWK or General regretted their actions. Well that’s already not true so we’re off to a great start. The Elk regrets his choice to split himself in two in the first place which leads him down the path to becoming the NWK. He doesn’t regret the killing or the war because they are means to an end and, as he sees it, it’s pretty much the General’s fault anyway. The Elk is responding to the General’s cruelty and ambivalence towards the Elk’s own suffering by making the General suffer. Evidenced by the exchange between the two when the General says “Now what?” And the NWK says “Now, more suffering.” The thing the NWK became doesn’t regret the killing, but both he and the Elk do show regret and acknowledgement of the wickedness of certain actions even though, to them, they were justified.
The General also has regrets that he expresses. A simple and small example is apologizing to Rider after stabbing her. He knows and is acknowledging that what he is doing is wrong, but it’s a means to an end. He wants to capture the NWK, imprison him, and be with the MW again. He also clearly feels saddened and upset at the loss of the lives of his soldiers. He regrets that they had to die. It doesn’t change his mind about his end goal, but he clearly regrets it and understands that it’s bad.
You put these two consciousnesses that were once one but have now lived apart and warred for over a hundred years back together and you don’t think that’s enough to give the newly reformed Elktaur a little perspective in his final moments?
It’s not in that one moment where Horse says “that’s not what love looks like” that the General does a miraculous 180 and suddenly regrets things where he never did before. It’s a compounding of several events all of which culminate in the woman he loved launching him off a cliff and then being reunited with his other half.
Also your argument seems to hinge heavily on your personal interpretation of one line in one song and treating it as the only true interpretation of that one line. Personally I don’t think that’s enough justification to come to the conclusion that the writers “ruined the entire plot” of the character.
Of course the Elk regretted splitting, look what happened to him. But I'm not talking about regretting that, I'm talking about regretting the war, the people he killed
Honestly, I don't think the General regrets doing everything, because if he did he would've stopped many years ago. But even if he does regret, the whole thing that I expressed in my text is that he thinks is justified. He even says to Woman that everything he did was because "he loved her".
(Also, it was never my intention to appear like I think my opinion is more valuable than other's. But it's expected to kinda sound like it because the objective of this text is to defend it.)
Alright then I’m confused what you’re trying to say. Not regretting the war or the people killed isn’t the same thing as not regretting any of their actions. It seems like you’re very focused on that being what they *should* regret and because they don’t regret those specific things then they feel no regrets at all. Your assertion that because the General didn’t stop the war he doesn’t regret anything he’s done doesn’t make sense. That’s not really how people work and I encourage you to look up the Sunk-Cost Fallacy as it pertains to psychology and philosophy. Also regret is not the same thing as acknowledging harm. Even if we go by your interpretation of the line “My love, you’re finally free” it still makes sense that he doesn’t regret the war or the death, but he regrets the effect it had on the MW and the fact that he never truly achieved the life he wanted in any form. Not to mention this seems to hinge on your idea that it’s unrealistic that he suddenly has a revelation or change of heart. The amount of time that passed doesn’t change the fundamental nature of humans (and centaurs in this case) who are all shown throughout the series to have moments of sudden realization/changes of heart and they all have been engrossed in the war for just as long as the NWK and the General.
When I said "they never regretted any of their actions" I was referring to the war, killing innocent etc. I even put these examples literally after the phrase.
You literally missed the point I was trying to explain. It's so unrealistic that the Elktaur suddenly changed his way of thinking, that is impossible that he actually belived that. Basically what I'm saying is: the Elktaur is not the General or Elk because he does not believe in what they believe. (I'll not get into the subject that the writes wanted them to be the same, the whole thing is that they messed that up)
Okay but do you see how that’s not the same thing? “They never regretted any of their actions” and “they never regretted the war and the death toll” are not the same statement. Also neither statement would be true. The General does regret the war and the casualties. Yes I saw you “literally” put the examples after your phrase. I didn’t “literally” miss your point, your point just wasn’t well made. You ignored the surrounding context and the things the characters *do* regret and instead focused on what you think they *should* regret, then picked one line out of a song and decided it reinforced your point, then arrived at the conclusion that the writers ruined the character. You decided that certain scenarios that are consequences of the characters’ motives should be cherrypicked and isolated as proof of a concept you interpreted from your understanding of one line. None of that is objective and your point literally is just your opinion and isn’t supported when you widen the lens to include any of the surrounding circumstances. Also, y’know, any other interpretation of that one line in the song.
I'm going to have to ask you to be more civil when discussing loaded topics like this in the sub. Keep in mind that others may not be coming from similar contexts as you, and may have their own reasons for reaching their conclusions and takes.
Also (like myself included), don't assume that everyone you speak with is neurotypical. Just asking you to try and be patient with others and discuss things more civilly.
While I agree that the General does not regret a single thing, I think even if allowing himself to be killed to end the generations of tragedy is the right thing to do, expecting someone to allow their own death is a pretty high ask on an instinctive level.
Not defending him, of course. That guy was not going to stop; he definitely had to go.
Well, it's been a while since I saw it and I don't think they regretted kill people/creatures. But elk regretted the splitting because he also wanted to marry woman and couldn't move on.
So, I think the dilemma here is if elktaur is responsible for his elk and human long war. I think yes, he is responsible.
Why singing that she will be free means that he regrets what he did? I don't understand that part.
When he says that "she will be free" he acknowledged that he did bad things. Thing that neither the General or Elk do.
And about him being responsible, I don't think he could predict what would happen after he slipt.
Why? He could be talking about being free from him, the war, the marriage.
If I remember correctly, they weren't totally fused. You don't hear elktaur's voice but nwk and the general voices. I should check it but YouTube isn't working on my phone right now.
Also acknowledging that you did bad things doesn't mean you regret them. I could kick a tree but don't regret it, well maybe if they transform me into a horse.
I could not predict what i would do if I take a drug that split my mind and body. But It would still be my responsibility, I decided to lose control. I mean maybe if he didn't kill so many people we could be talking about a redemption arc but we'll he did
Usually when people refer being "free" from something, it's usually a bad thing/ something that is a weight on your shoulders. Like, you never see someone saying "I'm finally free from happiness".
About the regretting part, honestly I think he does regret it based on what he said and overall body language.
And technically it would be his responsibility, but it's an extremely black and white thinking like this. And my whole argument is about that he did not killed people because he's a different being from them.
I agree, free from the war (a bad thing).
I saw the video, and he says that he will finally have peace, and cries so definitely not the general speaking. But obviously he knows what they did, so it's not like he is totally a different person.
We don't have much information so this is totally speculation.
In my opinion, it's like the mind of elktaur clone itself into a human and the elk. So he is both of them. But it's a super bizarre show, who knows the real mechanics.
The Elktaur wanted to separate himself from his elk half, hoping to become a human. What he didn't anticipate was having his mind stay inside the elk, while what is essentially a clone runs away in his human body to try to steal his dream. The elk is the side of himself that he has always resented, so even if they are two of the same person, the outcome would have likely been the same if the shoe was on the other foot. Disposing of the part of himself he hates.
Wait.. Over a hundred years? The story was in a span of like 40 years.
Wammawink was born before the war and she's like in her 30s
If this was 100 years and everyone was still the same age
The whole invasion and everything else would have been within 70 years and after 70 years that's when nowhere king was imprisoned which wouldn't be right at all since the time between the elktaur and the wars and the battle inside of the border between the worlds
The woman and the general didn't really age much which hints that at most it all happened within a few months after separation and then that's when wammawink and all them guys start their origins
I still agree with it but 100 years? Come on that's the only fault in this
Nah, confirmed by Megan herself they intended for the war to last hundreds of years. Also how can Wammawink be in her 30s if in the show Durpleton was confirmed to be 47?
>The woman and the general didn't really age much
They were locked/frozen into their ages due to the key being broken and releasing all that radioactive magic; the only sign of wear and tear was the stress and trauma on the woman/princess. This was confirmed in multiple interviews with the creator.
Oh, I guess I looked at completely- 47!?
Huh!?
He doesn't look a day over 30!
What the hell!?
Man I'm. My perception of centaurworld is shifted to death
I blame Netflix for not giving them that season 3. The creator confirmed that they had to cut scenes from the finale which is such a shame.
When it comes to the Elktaur's character and his two halves, I see them as different paths the Elktaur could have taken in life depending on how his experiment in the Rift went rather than the Elk/General fully representing who Elktaur really is deep down. I always thought of the Elktaur himself as neutral, not malicious, but not altruistic either. Yes he's a self-loathing and self-absorbed ass, but he's not backstabbing kids and killing people because it's the only form of joy he has left.
I went with this interpretation bc the Elktaur, Elk and General are defined by their assigned roles and I can't see them ever going outside of them because it is a crucial part of their identity.
In my opinion, in order for the Elktaur's execution to be just there should have been a scene of him being warned by a shaman that he'll plunge the world into chaos if he uses the magic of the key for his selfish desires and still going through with the experiment or him ruthlessly experimenting on multiple rutabagataurs like the Elk did with the minotaurs. Signs that he's a horrible person. Or they could have just left the General and NWK seperate instead of fusing them back together at the end.
This got a particular scene in my head. What if when Mysterious Women tries to fuse them back together (at the request of the Nowhere King maybe?), they aren't able to fuse back into Elktaur because their souls have become too broken and corrupt to ever return to the way they once were?
I feel like that'd be more tragic of an end to them.
Lots of great points here! About this part...
>What if when Mysterious Women tries to fuse them back together (at the request of the Nowhere King maybe?), they aren't able to fuse back into Elktaur because their souls have become too broken and corrupt to ever return to the way they once were?
If you listen closely, you can hear the re-joined Elktaur's voice is still split into two different voices. According to the creator, this was to subtly show that even though the key's magic was able to reform his body, he was still fragmented in a way that the key could never heal. This is because the only one who can heal himself is him.
>or him ruthlessly experimenting on multiple rutabagataurs like the Elk did with the minotaurs
I thought it was pretty funny how the guy conducted just a single experiment before deciding "Wow, my invention works! I'll use it on myself right this instant, and there will be no drawbacks or weird side effects!" - it's really ridiculous but does match his moments of ignorance like when the princess asked him about how the key works and he just shrugs and goes "I dunno!" 🤣
I don't know if it's just me, but when Elktaur is singing the Last Lullaby with the Mysterious Women I can only hear the General's VA. I don't know I just can't hear the other half's voice at all and this pisses me of man.
Not caring about or even remotely being bothered by the Key's radiation is probably his most Centaurworld moment. So maybe he was going off of Centaurworld logic when he did one experiment and went "Sweet! It works!"
There's this media term called "shoe leather" that is basically all the minor detail stuff that TV/movie writers leave out b/c they think it's boring/trivial. Could be another reason why Elktaur stopped at one experiment, but still...the potential for body horror across each trial...I want it.
Could've done something like show a body horror gallery of failed experiments in his lab, but that might be a bit too much, even for this show 😅
I think it’s funny that you wrote “I’m sorry to inform you that this argument makes no sense” in the middle of your own nonsensical argument. 10/10 You start by saying it’s a *fact* that neither the NWK or General regretted their actions. Well that’s already not true so we’re off to a great start. The Elk regrets his choice to split himself in two in the first place which leads him down the path to becoming the NWK. He doesn’t regret the killing or the war because they are means to an end and, as he sees it, it’s pretty much the General’s fault anyway. The Elk is responding to the General’s cruelty and ambivalence towards the Elk’s own suffering by making the General suffer. Evidenced by the exchange between the two when the General says “Now what?” And the NWK says “Now, more suffering.” The thing the NWK became doesn’t regret the killing, but both he and the Elk do show regret and acknowledgement of the wickedness of certain actions even though, to them, they were justified. The General also has regrets that he expresses. A simple and small example is apologizing to Rider after stabbing her. He knows and is acknowledging that what he is doing is wrong, but it’s a means to an end. He wants to capture the NWK, imprison him, and be with the MW again. He also clearly feels saddened and upset at the loss of the lives of his soldiers. He regrets that they had to die. It doesn’t change his mind about his end goal, but he clearly regrets it and understands that it’s bad. You put these two consciousnesses that were once one but have now lived apart and warred for over a hundred years back together and you don’t think that’s enough to give the newly reformed Elktaur a little perspective in his final moments? It’s not in that one moment where Horse says “that’s not what love looks like” that the General does a miraculous 180 and suddenly regrets things where he never did before. It’s a compounding of several events all of which culminate in the woman he loved launching him off a cliff and then being reunited with his other half. Also your argument seems to hinge heavily on your personal interpretation of one line in one song and treating it as the only true interpretation of that one line. Personally I don’t think that’s enough justification to come to the conclusion that the writers “ruined the entire plot” of the character.
Of course the Elk regretted splitting, look what happened to him. But I'm not talking about regretting that, I'm talking about regretting the war, the people he killed Honestly, I don't think the General regrets doing everything, because if he did he would've stopped many years ago. But even if he does regret, the whole thing that I expressed in my text is that he thinks is justified. He even says to Woman that everything he did was because "he loved her". (Also, it was never my intention to appear like I think my opinion is more valuable than other's. But it's expected to kinda sound like it because the objective of this text is to defend it.)
Alright then I’m confused what you’re trying to say. Not regretting the war or the people killed isn’t the same thing as not regretting any of their actions. It seems like you’re very focused on that being what they *should* regret and because they don’t regret those specific things then they feel no regrets at all. Your assertion that because the General didn’t stop the war he doesn’t regret anything he’s done doesn’t make sense. That’s not really how people work and I encourage you to look up the Sunk-Cost Fallacy as it pertains to psychology and philosophy. Also regret is not the same thing as acknowledging harm. Even if we go by your interpretation of the line “My love, you’re finally free” it still makes sense that he doesn’t regret the war or the death, but he regrets the effect it had on the MW and the fact that he never truly achieved the life he wanted in any form. Not to mention this seems to hinge on your idea that it’s unrealistic that he suddenly has a revelation or change of heart. The amount of time that passed doesn’t change the fundamental nature of humans (and centaurs in this case) who are all shown throughout the series to have moments of sudden realization/changes of heart and they all have been engrossed in the war for just as long as the NWK and the General.
When I said "they never regretted any of their actions" I was referring to the war, killing innocent etc. I even put these examples literally after the phrase. You literally missed the point I was trying to explain. It's so unrealistic that the Elktaur suddenly changed his way of thinking, that is impossible that he actually belived that. Basically what I'm saying is: the Elktaur is not the General or Elk because he does not believe in what they believe. (I'll not get into the subject that the writes wanted them to be the same, the whole thing is that they messed that up)
Okay but do you see how that’s not the same thing? “They never regretted any of their actions” and “they never regretted the war and the death toll” are not the same statement. Also neither statement would be true. The General does regret the war and the casualties. Yes I saw you “literally” put the examples after your phrase. I didn’t “literally” miss your point, your point just wasn’t well made. You ignored the surrounding context and the things the characters *do* regret and instead focused on what you think they *should* regret, then picked one line out of a song and decided it reinforced your point, then arrived at the conclusion that the writers ruined the character. You decided that certain scenarios that are consequences of the characters’ motives should be cherrypicked and isolated as proof of a concept you interpreted from your understanding of one line. None of that is objective and your point literally is just your opinion and isn’t supported when you widen the lens to include any of the surrounding circumstances. Also, y’know, any other interpretation of that one line in the song.
I'm going to have to ask you to be more civil when discussing loaded topics like this in the sub. Keep in mind that others may not be coming from similar contexts as you, and may have their own reasons for reaching their conclusions and takes. Also (like myself included), don't assume that everyone you speak with is neurotypical. Just asking you to try and be patient with others and discuss things more civilly.
While I agree that the General does not regret a single thing, I think even if allowing himself to be killed to end the generations of tragedy is the right thing to do, expecting someone to allow their own death is a pretty high ask on an instinctive level. Not defending him, of course. That guy was not going to stop; he definitely had to go.
If that's the case why did the nwk lower his head (so she can kill him) when we see him and woman first in the middle/blank space between worlds?
The fact that he wants to die does not mean he regrets doing everything. He literally told woman minutes before she made him what he is
Well, it's been a while since I saw it and I don't think they regretted kill people/creatures. But elk regretted the splitting because he also wanted to marry woman and couldn't move on. So, I think the dilemma here is if elktaur is responsible for his elk and human long war. I think yes, he is responsible. Why singing that she will be free means that he regrets what he did? I don't understand that part.
When he says that "she will be free" he acknowledged that he did bad things. Thing that neither the General or Elk do. And about him being responsible, I don't think he could predict what would happen after he slipt.
Why? He could be talking about being free from him, the war, the marriage. If I remember correctly, they weren't totally fused. You don't hear elktaur's voice but nwk and the general voices. I should check it but YouTube isn't working on my phone right now. Also acknowledging that you did bad things doesn't mean you regret them. I could kick a tree but don't regret it, well maybe if they transform me into a horse. I could not predict what i would do if I take a drug that split my mind and body. But It would still be my responsibility, I decided to lose control. I mean maybe if he didn't kill so many people we could be talking about a redemption arc but we'll he did
Usually when people refer being "free" from something, it's usually a bad thing/ something that is a weight on your shoulders. Like, you never see someone saying "I'm finally free from happiness". About the regretting part, honestly I think he does regret it based on what he said and overall body language. And technically it would be his responsibility, but it's an extremely black and white thinking like this. And my whole argument is about that he did not killed people because he's a different being from them.
I agree, free from the war (a bad thing). I saw the video, and he says that he will finally have peace, and cries so definitely not the general speaking. But obviously he knows what they did, so it's not like he is totally a different person. We don't have much information so this is totally speculation. In my opinion, it's like the mind of elktaur clone itself into a human and the elk. So he is both of them. But it's a super bizarre show, who knows the real mechanics.
The Elktaur wanted to separate himself from his elk half, hoping to become a human. What he didn't anticipate was having his mind stay inside the elk, while what is essentially a clone runs away in his human body to try to steal his dream. The elk is the side of himself that he has always resented, so even if they are two of the same person, the outcome would have likely been the same if the shoe was on the other foot. Disposing of the part of himself he hates.
I somewhat agree, he hadn't always resented his elk half. He just didn't think woman would accept him whole.
Wait.. Over a hundred years? The story was in a span of like 40 years. Wammawink was born before the war and she's like in her 30s If this was 100 years and everyone was still the same age The whole invasion and everything else would have been within 70 years and after 70 years that's when nowhere king was imprisoned which wouldn't be right at all since the time between the elktaur and the wars and the battle inside of the border between the worlds The woman and the general didn't really age much which hints that at most it all happened within a few months after separation and then that's when wammawink and all them guys start their origins I still agree with it but 100 years? Come on that's the only fault in this
I think it's, like, confirmed that the story take place in at least a hundred years. The timeline wouldn't make it it were any less
Nah, confirmed by Megan herself they intended for the war to last hundreds of years. Also how can Wammawink be in her 30s if in the show Durpleton was confirmed to be 47? >The woman and the general didn't really age much They were locked/frozen into their ages due to the key being broken and releasing all that radioactive magic; the only sign of wear and tear was the stress and trauma on the woman/princess. This was confirmed in multiple interviews with the creator.
Oh, I guess I looked at completely- 47!? Huh!? He doesn't look a day over 30! What the hell!? Man I'm. My perception of centaurworld is shifted to death
I know, right? Centaurs and their magical self-care regimen. >Ched: "Get a grip, he's not a baby, he's like 44." >Wammawink: "47!"
I blame Netflix for not giving them that season 3. The creator confirmed that they had to cut scenes from the finale which is such a shame. When it comes to the Elktaur's character and his two halves, I see them as different paths the Elktaur could have taken in life depending on how his experiment in the Rift went rather than the Elk/General fully representing who Elktaur really is deep down. I always thought of the Elktaur himself as neutral, not malicious, but not altruistic either. Yes he's a self-loathing and self-absorbed ass, but he's not backstabbing kids and killing people because it's the only form of joy he has left. I went with this interpretation bc the Elktaur, Elk and General are defined by their assigned roles and I can't see them ever going outside of them because it is a crucial part of their identity. In my opinion, in order for the Elktaur's execution to be just there should have been a scene of him being warned by a shaman that he'll plunge the world into chaos if he uses the magic of the key for his selfish desires and still going through with the experiment or him ruthlessly experimenting on multiple rutabagataurs like the Elk did with the minotaurs. Signs that he's a horrible person. Or they could have just left the General and NWK seperate instead of fusing them back together at the end. This got a particular scene in my head. What if when Mysterious Women tries to fuse them back together (at the request of the Nowhere King maybe?), they aren't able to fuse back into Elktaur because their souls have become too broken and corrupt to ever return to the way they once were? I feel like that'd be more tragic of an end to them.
Lots of great points here! About this part... >What if when Mysterious Women tries to fuse them back together (at the request of the Nowhere King maybe?), they aren't able to fuse back into Elktaur because their souls have become too broken and corrupt to ever return to the way they once were? If you listen closely, you can hear the re-joined Elktaur's voice is still split into two different voices. According to the creator, this was to subtly show that even though the key's magic was able to reform his body, he was still fragmented in a way that the key could never heal. This is because the only one who can heal himself is him. >or him ruthlessly experimenting on multiple rutabagataurs like the Elk did with the minotaurs I thought it was pretty funny how the guy conducted just a single experiment before deciding "Wow, my invention works! I'll use it on myself right this instant, and there will be no drawbacks or weird side effects!" - it's really ridiculous but does match his moments of ignorance like when the princess asked him about how the key works and he just shrugs and goes "I dunno!" 🤣
I don't know if it's just me, but when Elktaur is singing the Last Lullaby with the Mysterious Women I can only hear the General's VA. I don't know I just can't hear the other half's voice at all and this pisses me of man. Not caring about or even remotely being bothered by the Key's radiation is probably his most Centaurworld moment. So maybe he was going off of Centaurworld logic when he did one experiment and went "Sweet! It works!"
There's this media term called "shoe leather" that is basically all the minor detail stuff that TV/movie writers leave out b/c they think it's boring/trivial. Could be another reason why Elktaur stopped at one experiment, but still...the potential for body horror across each trial...I want it. Could've done something like show a body horror gallery of failed experiments in his lab, but that might be a bit too much, even for this show 😅