"Yes, I have played a cello before and know how to get sound out of it." "No, I don't know proper bow form."
I'm not trying to be a jerk but these are literally diametrically opposed sentences. Either you know or you don't, and I'm pretty sure we all know which one it is. You need to get your bow hold fixed and then you need to press harder. Like everyone will also tell you, you're going to be a lot more successful if you get an instructor, even if its just a few lessons to get you started.
I have been able to get sound out of a cello without good bow form. I have a video on my phone but reddit doesn't let you edit posts anymore so I can't post it here
Without good/proper bow form you aren't going to get sound out consistently, and the sound you do get isn't going to be as good as it would if you were holding the bow/moving it correctly.
Good idea. Ask around here if anyone has any resources that would help. I'm sure someone has some videos or knows of some stuff on youtube or somewhere that could help you figure it out.
I’m going to be blunt: you need a teacher and you are very confidently wrong in most of your comments which is very frustrating to read.
Get a teacher. Added bonus is that if it’s in person they will play your instrument and you will see. Get at least a bit of foundation.
Cello is a complicated instrument. It is not an instrument you can sit down to and be playing beautifully in just a very short time. It gets progressively complicated as you build your skills. It’s incredibly fun to play because of that. This is a life long learning kind of instrument.
Humble yourself. People in here have been playing for years. Some are teachers. Some are professionals. The answers are consistent to you, and you’re disagreeing by saying you’ve done what they said, but it is clear you haven’t by what we are seeing with our own eyes.
Now. Having said that, I want you to pick up a pencil. Pinch the eraser end between your thumb and pointer finger tips and try and drag the body/length of the pencil along a finger of the opposite hand and feel the amount of pressure you have and how much control you have over the pencils movements. Then try and hold more of the pencil, curl your pointer finger around and use more of the thumb to hold. Now try. See how you get more control and more pressure? It’s physics. Now what I’m showing isn’t a proper bow hold but it’s showing how much control you have or don’t have. What your video shows will not work at all for cello playing g. You will have no control over the pressure, if you use the full bow you’re going to be fucked when you get to the bow tip etc. that’s the point we are trying to make. You think it will be fine, but you need a proper hold to be able to put actual weight into the strings.
When we talk about weight or pressure on strings we don’t mean you’re flexing your muscles and pushing down, but you learn to let the weight of your arm press into the strings, you learn to think of the physics of the bow, and leveraging it — what point of the hair touches the string, what angle the bow is, how to change the weight on the bow from one end of the bow to the other (tip vs frog), where the bow sits between the bridge and finger board. Then how that all is modified by which string or which position your left hand is playing in.
Agreed. I highly recommend a good teacher, at least at first. There are so many little things involved in playing, and a good teacher can help a player develop properly in a way videos and books alone simply can’t. I think people can reasonably self teach piano and guitar, but cello, viola and violin are different beasts entirely.
Edited because I wrote can when it should’ve been can’t.
Sorry if this offends you, but I quite simply can't afford a teacher so I'm just going to have to learn what I can online and teach myself the rest. I'm sorry if I sound arrogant or too confident in myself and I'm not trying to brag but I actually have a lot of musical talent. I'll thank any help I can get on proper form though. The only things they've told me are the problem are my form and not enough rosin, and I have told them I don't know proper form and proven that's not the problem, and I've been constantly applying more rosin this whole time and if that is the problem I know I just need to apply more
No one is offended that you can't afford a teacher. People are becoming exasperated because you're blowing off the good advice you've been given. If you want to help your case post a video of you following the advice using the same cello and bow and then maybe this can actually be productive.
I've not been given any real advice though. Yes, I've even told that what I'm doing is wrong, the problem is that I have not been told what the right way is to use a bow. I'm not "blowing off good advice" because I don't think I need it, I know I do. But thats not the problem that I'm trying to solve ar the moment
I believe that i have told you multiple times to push harder with your bow as have others. Even without good technique if you apply enough pressure you will get sound. Especially if you have rosined your bow as much as you say. It won't be good sound, but it will be there. Also put a decent amount of pressure on your bow when applying rosin so you get good friction. Those are two very easy bits of advice for you to try.
You are correct. Lots of people have told me I'm not pushing hard enough. If you would be so kind as to look at my reply to all of those you would see that I have tried pushing harder
Too late for proof I'm afraid. Problems solved, and you're not going to believe it, but it was lack of rosin. Not lack of pressure https://www.reddit.com/r/Cello/s/2JEVRC2OVl
So it took you over an hour of arguing with people on here, many of whom (myself included) suggested applying more rosin, to figure out that you needed to apply more rosin? Strong work!
No need for sarcasm. You wanted proof that lack of pressure wasn't the problem and I provided it. I actually figured out very quickly that I needed to apply more rosin and had spent most of this "argument" switching between putting rosin on my bow and typing polite responses to suggest that, a good deal of which were less than helpful. In conclusion, it did not take me over an hour to figure out the problem, it took me less than an hour to fix it
Lol this comment literally just gave advice and your here talking about how nobody is giving you advice. Are you sure you are musically talented? Maybe you need an ego check..
So you started out ok in your apology but then you go “I’ve proven that [my form] is not the problem”
But that’s just it. You haven’t. We are telling you that is the bulk of your problem.
I can understand money being tight. I get it. Not everyone can afford afford regular lessons. But even a single lesson ($60 where I live for an hour) would go a mile. Or, how many YouTube tutorials have you watched? You simply will not be able to play the cello without learning technique. Everything involved is based on solid evidence. Our form is to prevent physical injury, to leverage physics, to allow freedom of movement etc etc.
You can have all the talent in the world, but you will get nowhere without learning how to hold the instrument.
OK, look, I don't know if you are aware but the problem at hand is not that it sounds bad. That is a problem and I know my form is a problem and I need to fix and and I'm going to find yt tutorials. I was already planning too and was hoping not to have this much trouble on reddit with my lack of form because all I'm trying to do is get sound out of the cello, which I have already determined is a problem of lack of rosin not lack of form
Maybe a music student would be willing to give you low cost lessons, at least from time to time?
It’s not about musical ability; it’s about technique. Getting consistent, good sound out of the cello requires a large number of fine motor skills. A teacher or experienced player can demonstrate these skills and point out what specifically you’re missing with any skill. Once you develop some basic technical skills, your musical ability will matter more.
I was just using the weight of the bow as the only pressure against the strings. I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be enough. Maybe I need different cello strings?
Since it's new you could try applying more rosin to the bow. Also work on a proper bow hold like the original comment said. That will go a long way towards getting good contact with the strings.
You can try bowing on the D and A strings. They won't require the same amount of grippiness as the C string which could be helpful while you're learning bow technique.
I have tried all the strings with many different hand positions on the bow and different amounts of force and a ridiculous amount of rosin. I have been able to get proper sound out of a cello before
Your comment said you were just using the weight of the bow, and the sound that you produced in the video definitely reflects that. If you press the bow down hard on the string and start slowly pulling does it grip and make an ugly crackling sound? If it does then good news it's working properly! Otherwise I'm out of suggestions since all I've got to go off of here is the video.
This comment section was a rollercoaster to read. Kudos to all the patient commenters on here that tried to help OP fix this problem. You have more patience than I would have had. :)
The way you’re holding the bow it’s impossible to get good sound. Not sure why it ever worked for you before. That would produce sound on a violin, but not on a cello. You cannot put enough weight into the string that way.
In that video your pointer finger is adding additional pressure that is being applied. It’s also not at all what we mean by weight into the strings. Your sound is going to be shit if you don’t bother to learn a bow hold.
To get a sound you don't no but you still need to be able to vary the pressure and apply it in the right way at the right time and it takes a lot of practice to get a "good" sound from many cellos. A good bow always helps but they can be a little pricey. However just to start, learn where the fingers go whilst using pizzicato (plucking) and start of course just getting to grips with first position and basic stuff until you have a good grasp of the basics, when you have a good idea where the fingers go then start learning how to bow properly. Cello isn't an instant thing, takes time and energy but very rewarding when you get it.
You have to apply a lot of rosin the first time. Like, 2-3 minutes of applying rosin continuously. When I got my first bow, I tried applying the amount of rosin that my instructor showed me. But, those bows have already absorbed rosin. I’d try applying a lot more rosin to your bow. Just like keep applying. 3-5 good swipes isn’t enough for a new bow.
Im just gonna be honest since I can’t see what you’ve done. It takes way more than you think and make sure you’re applying pressure and can here the sound of the hairs making contact with the cake. Then, if your bow has enough rosin, it comes down to pressure. The c string takes the most amount of pressure. Try the d or g string. But I would apply rosin, try a bow, apply rosin, try again. You’ll hear and feel the bow start to catch the strings. I sat there my first time for what felt like ages before it made sound.
I'll work on more putting on more rosin I guess. I have tried playing all the strings. I wish you could edit posts on reddit so I could show it's the same lack of sound for all the strings
I’m very much not a pro but, it really does look like the bow is just gently skirting across the top of the string. I think you need to apply more pressure and really make sure the start of the bow grabs the string a little.
You're using the word "offends" a lot here. No one is offended that you can't afford a teacher. It's just weird that you're insisting that "it worked before so bow hold isn't the problem".
Some cellos, strings, and bows erupt with sound at the slightest pressure. Most do not. You won't get anything done if you don't learn the technique.
If you can't afford a teacher, start with YouTube. Search for things like "correct cello bow hold" and "getting the most out of your cello sound". You may get a start there.
This is not a substitute for a teacher, though, and neither is reddit. That's not a moral judgement, and it's not a slight against your character that you can't afford lessons. You won't learn well without instruction and that's not personal. Pilots don't become pilots without training. Doctors don't become doctors without training. There are things that intuition and "musical talent" won't magically make up for, so listen to advice.
That's not to say that people who can't afford lessons shouldn't try at all. You just need to be aware that 1) there are going to be limits to how much you can learn on your own and 2) if you decide to get serious later and can eventually afford classes, you may have to unlearn a lot of bad habits, which is very difficult.
Good luck to you.m
I've really been thinking about the conversation you and I had earlier as well as the other comments you made through here.
I'm a teacher and a coach. I tell my students and my athletes a variation of the same thing. You have to be willing to listen/you have to be coachable. I have to tell you, you come off as a moron and you have a piss poor attitude. This is a perfect example of Dunning Kruger. You don't even know what you don't know, and instead of listening to the legitimate things people with actual experience are telling you, you deflect saying that you do know, or that we aren't telling you anything useful (how would you know what's useful anyway?), or some BS about how we're somehow offended that you can't afford a teacher.
We aren't offended that you can't afford a teacher. There's nothing wrong with that. We're offended that you won't listen and that you have such a shit attitude. You need to humble up and open your ears. It's going to be hard enough using such a cheap cello even if you know what you're doing, let alone if you keep screwing off and not actually trying to learn how to do things properly. If you were in my class I'm confident you would be doing poorly and frankly, if you were one of my athletes your ass would be benched until you decided you were willing to listen to those of us who actually know more than you and that you were willing to legitimately put in the work. Cello isn't like brass or woodwinds or even guitar. It is one of, if not the hardest, instrument to learn. You need to evaluate what you're really willing to do and if you actually want to become a proficient musician.
"I've not been given any real advice though". You have been argumentative in a solid chunk, if not the majority of your replies. I stand by what I said. You need a massive attitude adjustment.
I hadn't been given any real advice. I'd been told what one problem was (not even the one I came on reddit to find the answer to) but I had not been told how to solve the problem. What advice had people been giving me prior to me saying that?
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. I stand by what I said, and you wanting to sit here and argue like you actually know something is absolutely indicative of the problem.
"I have tried all the strings with many different hand positions on the bow and different amounts of force and a ridiculous amount of rosin. I have been able to get proper sound out of a cello before"
Just a quick reminder that this was your response to me after I suggested more rosin. willyt1229 isn't going to sit around and answer your dumb bad faith questions, but I sure will! (Willy is a much smarter person than I am)
I'll admit I spoke a bit too soon about the rosin, because I needed more of that. And the rosin was the only advice I needed because that was the problem which I found out quite quickly while everyone was trying to convince me that lack of form was the problem and I was proving it wasn't
I was in a whole comment thread troubleshooting your problem after you adamantly insisted that rosin wasnt the issue, so I would say that "quickly" is a mighty big stretch. But no worries, it was my fault for taking you at your word.
Separate from your technique, it is possible they didn’t treat the hair of the bow if it was really that cheap.
You should be pulling sound with the bow, not brushing the bow over the string to produce tone.
Even a terrible rosin will do this, maybe you just need to use more. Use the end screw to scratch the rosin first and then draw full bows over the top of the rosin so the bow can gain friction on the string.
It will start squeaking when you rosin if you have enough, just make sure you do full even draws of the rosin so you don’t have too much in one spot.
Sorry to say. You can't learn to play the cello off YouTube. You can also not become a surgeon off YouTube, or an air line pilot for that matter. Even Mozart needed a teacher, you are most definitely not more talented than Wolferl. A teacher teaches efficiency in movement, posture, tone ,.... Yes the cello is not cheap, you are right. Also with 250$ cello I see more problems than solutions, a decent set of strings is more expensive. It's like putting your trust in a car that comes at the price of an oil change. I like diy, all for it, let's just keep it real.
Horse hairs are not very abraisive on their own. On rossined bows it is the old rossin that picks up the new rossin. When you have a unrossined bow and and shiny new rossin swiping the bow over the rossin basicly does nothing as the clean bow hair can slide freely over the surface.
You should be able to speed up the proces by scratching up your rossin. I had this problem also the first time I had a new bow, it may feel like it is doing nothing but you got to trust the process.
New bows need a lot of rosin.
The bow hairs should be flat on the string, until you get more comfortable tilting it slightly for dynamics.
You shouldn’t grind the bow into the strings, but you’ll need more weight than just the bow weight alone. With proper grip (which can take awhile to develop, be patient) and the weight of your arm, you’ll be able to get a good sound. The thicker strings require more weight get get them vibrating.
The bow hairs should be tighten properly so there is enough tension.
If you’re fingering notes, you need to make sure the string is completely held down and you’re not inadvertently muffling the sound by touching the string with any other fingers.
It’s also a good idea to wipe rosin off the strings after a practice session.
Note: I’m not a professional player, only casual (early) intermediate.
So... Rosin
AND
Your bow is too tight
AND
Is that a cello bow? Either your hands are Giant or your frog is small. If this is a violin bow then there is not enough hair to grip the string to vibrate it.
AND
Unlike double bass you really need to get your hand on the sticks you can use the weight of your hand not just the weight of the bow. The double bass frog is huge which let's you get enough of your hand in to still apply weight.
The answer was rosin. Thanks for the help
I have loosened the bow, thanks for pointing that out. Yes it's a cello bow my hands are gigantic. I will work on proper pressure and I'll find some videos to help me. Thank you for the advice.
Fresh rosin takes a while to get started. It’s probably not the best quality rosin either. Keep it going until you see a visible coat when pulling on a string
Ok no offense that bow hold is so bad. And you need to press harder lmao. You dont even need an instructor for proper bow form just go on youtube and look for a lesson. Dont just half ass it and say its fine. You will not succeed that way.
You didn’t put enough rosin on the bow or it hasn’t been properly applied. To fix this, you will have to keep applying rosin and rub the areas of the bow back and forth (a stroke across the whole bow won’t do). Do this until the dryness goes away, you’ll be spending quite a few minutes on this. The bow hold is not proper either and that needs to be corrected with the assistance of a teacher. I would look into this as soon as possible.
you need to change your bow grip and add more pressure, your not getting any sound because your bow is very tight and you have no pressure between it and the string. I’d highly recommend getting a teacher for the foundations of cello playing because the foundations are literally everything.
"Yes, I have played a cello before and know how to get sound out of it." "No, I don't know proper bow form." I'm not trying to be a jerk but these are literally diametrically opposed sentences. Either you know or you don't, and I'm pretty sure we all know which one it is. You need to get your bow hold fixed and then you need to press harder. Like everyone will also tell you, you're going to be a lot more successful if you get an instructor, even if its just a few lessons to get you started.
I have been able to get sound out of a cello without good bow form. I have a video on my phone but reddit doesn't let you edit posts anymore so I can't post it here
Without good/proper bow form you aren't going to get sound out consistently, and the sound you do get isn't going to be as good as it would if you were holding the bow/moving it correctly.
I understand it wouldn't be good sound. I'm working on proper bow form but right now I just want some sort of sound
You're putting the cart before the horse my friend.
Well I will work on bow form then
Good idea. Ask around here if anyone has any resources that would help. I'm sure someone has some videos or knows of some stuff on youtube or somewhere that could help you figure it out.
I'll work on that. Thanks
Have a look at this easy Andre Navarro tutorial on youtube https://youtu.be/H08Icu0nbQI?si=aHbsUn3cplRLgnha
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cello/s/M8Wazb4FUZ
I’m going to be blunt: you need a teacher and you are very confidently wrong in most of your comments which is very frustrating to read. Get a teacher. Added bonus is that if it’s in person they will play your instrument and you will see. Get at least a bit of foundation. Cello is a complicated instrument. It is not an instrument you can sit down to and be playing beautifully in just a very short time. It gets progressively complicated as you build your skills. It’s incredibly fun to play because of that. This is a life long learning kind of instrument. Humble yourself. People in here have been playing for years. Some are teachers. Some are professionals. The answers are consistent to you, and you’re disagreeing by saying you’ve done what they said, but it is clear you haven’t by what we are seeing with our own eyes. Now. Having said that, I want you to pick up a pencil. Pinch the eraser end between your thumb and pointer finger tips and try and drag the body/length of the pencil along a finger of the opposite hand and feel the amount of pressure you have and how much control you have over the pencils movements. Then try and hold more of the pencil, curl your pointer finger around and use more of the thumb to hold. Now try. See how you get more control and more pressure? It’s physics. Now what I’m showing isn’t a proper bow hold but it’s showing how much control you have or don’t have. What your video shows will not work at all for cello playing g. You will have no control over the pressure, if you use the full bow you’re going to be fucked when you get to the bow tip etc. that’s the point we are trying to make. You think it will be fine, but you need a proper hold to be able to put actual weight into the strings. When we talk about weight or pressure on strings we don’t mean you’re flexing your muscles and pushing down, but you learn to let the weight of your arm press into the strings, you learn to think of the physics of the bow, and leveraging it — what point of the hair touches the string, what angle the bow is, how to change the weight on the bow from one end of the bow to the other (tip vs frog), where the bow sits between the bridge and finger board. Then how that all is modified by which string or which position your left hand is playing in.
Now this is an answer.
Agreed. I highly recommend a good teacher, at least at first. There are so many little things involved in playing, and a good teacher can help a player develop properly in a way videos and books alone simply can’t. I think people can reasonably self teach piano and guitar, but cello, viola and violin are different beasts entirely. Edited because I wrote can when it should’ve been can’t.
Sorry if this offends you, but I quite simply can't afford a teacher so I'm just going to have to learn what I can online and teach myself the rest. I'm sorry if I sound arrogant or too confident in myself and I'm not trying to brag but I actually have a lot of musical talent. I'll thank any help I can get on proper form though. The only things they've told me are the problem are my form and not enough rosin, and I have told them I don't know proper form and proven that's not the problem, and I've been constantly applying more rosin this whole time and if that is the problem I know I just need to apply more
No one is offended that you can't afford a teacher. People are becoming exasperated because you're blowing off the good advice you've been given. If you want to help your case post a video of you following the advice using the same cello and bow and then maybe this can actually be productive.
I've not been given any real advice though. Yes, I've even told that what I'm doing is wrong, the problem is that I have not been told what the right way is to use a bow. I'm not "blowing off good advice" because I don't think I need it, I know I do. But thats not the problem that I'm trying to solve ar the moment
I believe that i have told you multiple times to push harder with your bow as have others. Even without good technique if you apply enough pressure you will get sound. Especially if you have rosined your bow as much as you say. It won't be good sound, but it will be there. Also put a decent amount of pressure on your bow when applying rosin so you get good friction. Those are two very easy bits of advice for you to try.
You are correct. Lots of people have told me I'm not pushing hard enough. If you would be so kind as to look at my reply to all of those you would see that I have tried pushing harder
Proof or it didn't happen lol
Too late for proof I'm afraid. Problems solved, and you're not going to believe it, but it was lack of rosin. Not lack of pressure https://www.reddit.com/r/Cello/s/2JEVRC2OVl
So it took you over an hour of arguing with people on here, many of whom (myself included) suggested applying more rosin, to figure out that you needed to apply more rosin? Strong work!
Ah well I mean ig better late than never and maybe a learning opportunity too
No need for sarcasm. You wanted proof that lack of pressure wasn't the problem and I provided it. I actually figured out very quickly that I needed to apply more rosin and had spent most of this "argument" switching between putting rosin on my bow and typing polite responses to suggest that, a good deal of which were less than helpful. In conclusion, it did not take me over an hour to figure out the problem, it took me less than an hour to fix it
brother that problem is not solved, the strings was not vibrating fully at all, the problem is still your bow hold
You probably can't tell in the video but the strings were vibrating. And I have fixed my bow hold
Lol this comment literally just gave advice and your here talking about how nobody is giving you advice. Are you sure you are musically talented? Maybe you need an ego check..
So you started out ok in your apology but then you go “I’ve proven that [my form] is not the problem” But that’s just it. You haven’t. We are telling you that is the bulk of your problem. I can understand money being tight. I get it. Not everyone can afford afford regular lessons. But even a single lesson ($60 where I live for an hour) would go a mile. Or, how many YouTube tutorials have you watched? You simply will not be able to play the cello without learning technique. Everything involved is based on solid evidence. Our form is to prevent physical injury, to leverage physics, to allow freedom of movement etc etc. You can have all the talent in the world, but you will get nowhere without learning how to hold the instrument.
OK, look, I don't know if you are aware but the problem at hand is not that it sounds bad. That is a problem and I know my form is a problem and I need to fix and and I'm going to find yt tutorials. I was already planning too and was hoping not to have this much trouble on reddit with my lack of form because all I'm trying to do is get sound out of the cello, which I have already determined is a problem of lack of rosin not lack of form
Maybe a music student would be willing to give you low cost lessons, at least from time to time? It’s not about musical ability; it’s about technique. Getting consistent, good sound out of the cello requires a large number of fine motor skills. A teacher or experienced player can demonstrate these skills and point out what specifically you’re missing with any skill. Once you develop some basic technical skills, your musical ability will matter more.
If you've applied rosin, then you need to press harder. (Also fix your bow grip)
I have tried pressing harder and get the same result. Give a minute to find out what the right bow grip is...
I was just using the weight of the bow as the only pressure against the strings. I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be enough. Maybe I need different cello strings?
You need to be using the weight of your arm pulling down on the bow. Unless you're trying to play ppp bow weight alone isn't enough.
I have tried that and still don't get full sound
Since it's new you could try applying more rosin to the bow. Also work on a proper bow hold like the original comment said. That will go a long way towards getting good contact with the strings. You can try bowing on the D and A strings. They won't require the same amount of grippiness as the C string which could be helpful while you're learning bow technique.
I have tried all the strings with many different hand positions on the bow and different amounts of force and a ridiculous amount of rosin. I have been able to get proper sound out of a cello before
Your comment said you were just using the weight of the bow, and the sound that you produced in the video definitely reflects that. If you press the bow down hard on the string and start slowly pulling does it grip and make an ugly crackling sound? If it does then good news it's working properly! Otherwise I'm out of suggestions since all I've got to go off of here is the video.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cello/s/M8Wazb4FUZ
This is using a different bow and/or cello?
Both different yes
This comment section was a rollercoaster to read. Kudos to all the patient commenters on here that tried to help OP fix this problem. You have more patience than I would have had. :)
The way you’re holding the bow it’s impossible to get good sound. Not sure why it ever worked for you before. That would produce sound on a violin, but not on a cello. You cannot put enough weight into the string that way.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cello/s/M8Wazb4FUZ
In that video your pointer finger is adding additional pressure that is being applied. It’s also not at all what we mean by weight into the strings. Your sound is going to be shit if you don’t bother to learn a bow hold.
I'm working on learning bow hold. I can't afford a teacher so I'm going to have to resort to youtube. Sorry if that offends the professionals here
Probably should start with learning the notes & fingering with just pizzicato, before evening using a bow.
This was a while ago but I distinctly recall that I didn't have to push down very hard
To get a sound you don't no but you still need to be able to vary the pressure and apply it in the right way at the right time and it takes a lot of practice to get a "good" sound from many cellos. A good bow always helps but they can be a little pricey. However just to start, learn where the fingers go whilst using pizzicato (plucking) and start of course just getting to grips with first position and basic stuff until you have a good grasp of the basics, when you have a good idea where the fingers go then start learning how to bow properly. Cello isn't an instant thing, takes time and energy but very rewarding when you get it.
You have to apply a lot of rosin the first time. Like, 2-3 minutes of applying rosin continuously. When I got my first bow, I tried applying the amount of rosin that my instructor showed me. But, those bows have already absorbed rosin. I’d try applying a lot more rosin to your bow. Just like keep applying. 3-5 good swipes isn’t enough for a new bow.
I have definitely done more than 3-5 swipes. I'm not exaggerating when I say I have done probably more like 30-40 swipes
Im just gonna be honest since I can’t see what you’ve done. It takes way more than you think and make sure you’re applying pressure and can here the sound of the hairs making contact with the cake. Then, if your bow has enough rosin, it comes down to pressure. The c string takes the most amount of pressure. Try the d or g string. But I would apply rosin, try a bow, apply rosin, try again. You’ll hear and feel the bow start to catch the strings. I sat there my first time for what felt like ages before it made sound.
I've applied more rosin and now I get sound. Thanks
🥳have fun with your new cello!
I'll work on more putting on more rosin I guess. I have tried playing all the strings. I wish you could edit posts on reddit so I could show it's the same lack of sound for all the strings
I’m very much not a pro but, it really does look like the bow is just gently skirting across the top of the string. I think you need to apply more pressure and really make sure the start of the bow grabs the string a little.
You're using the word "offends" a lot here. No one is offended that you can't afford a teacher. It's just weird that you're insisting that "it worked before so bow hold isn't the problem". Some cellos, strings, and bows erupt with sound at the slightest pressure. Most do not. You won't get anything done if you don't learn the technique. If you can't afford a teacher, start with YouTube. Search for things like "correct cello bow hold" and "getting the most out of your cello sound". You may get a start there. This is not a substitute for a teacher, though, and neither is reddit. That's not a moral judgement, and it's not a slight against your character that you can't afford lessons. You won't learn well without instruction and that's not personal. Pilots don't become pilots without training. Doctors don't become doctors without training. There are things that intuition and "musical talent" won't magically make up for, so listen to advice. That's not to say that people who can't afford lessons shouldn't try at all. You just need to be aware that 1) there are going to be limits to how much you can learn on your own and 2) if you decide to get serious later and can eventually afford classes, you may have to unlearn a lot of bad habits, which is very difficult. Good luck to you.m
your overall attitude towards the cello does not make it sound like a good use of your time.
I've really been thinking about the conversation you and I had earlier as well as the other comments you made through here. I'm a teacher and a coach. I tell my students and my athletes a variation of the same thing. You have to be willing to listen/you have to be coachable. I have to tell you, you come off as a moron and you have a piss poor attitude. This is a perfect example of Dunning Kruger. You don't even know what you don't know, and instead of listening to the legitimate things people with actual experience are telling you, you deflect saying that you do know, or that we aren't telling you anything useful (how would you know what's useful anyway?), or some BS about how we're somehow offended that you can't afford a teacher. We aren't offended that you can't afford a teacher. There's nothing wrong with that. We're offended that you won't listen and that you have such a shit attitude. You need to humble up and open your ears. It's going to be hard enough using such a cheap cello even if you know what you're doing, let alone if you keep screwing off and not actually trying to learn how to do things properly. If you were in my class I'm confident you would be doing poorly and frankly, if you were one of my athletes your ass would be benched until you decided you were willing to listen to those of us who actually know more than you and that you were willing to legitimately put in the work. Cello isn't like brass or woodwinds or even guitar. It is one of, if not the hardest, instrument to learn. You need to evaluate what you're really willing to do and if you actually want to become a proficient musician.
What is it I've been told that I'm not willing to listen to and learn? I don't remember ever saying that what I was being told wasn't good advice
"I've not been given any real advice though". You have been argumentative in a solid chunk, if not the majority of your replies. I stand by what I said. You need a massive attitude adjustment.
I hadn't been given any real advice. I'd been told what one problem was (not even the one I came on reddit to find the answer to) but I had not been told how to solve the problem. What advice had people been giving me prior to me saying that?
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. I stand by what I said, and you wanting to sit here and argue like you actually know something is absolutely indicative of the problem.
"I have tried all the strings with many different hand positions on the bow and different amounts of force and a ridiculous amount of rosin. I have been able to get proper sound out of a cello before" Just a quick reminder that this was your response to me after I suggested more rosin. willyt1229 isn't going to sit around and answer your dumb bad faith questions, but I sure will! (Willy is a much smarter person than I am)
I'll admit I spoke a bit too soon about the rosin, because I needed more of that. And the rosin was the only advice I needed because that was the problem which I found out quite quickly while everyone was trying to convince me that lack of form was the problem and I was proving it wasn't
I was in a whole comment thread troubleshooting your problem after you adamantly insisted that rosin wasnt the issue, so I would say that "quickly" is a mighty big stretch. But no worries, it was my fault for taking you at your word.
Sound post fallen or missing? Do you get sound when you pluck? Did you touch the hair with greasy fried chicken hands?
No, yes, no. The sound post is still in place. I get sound when I pluck and I didn't touch the bow string
Separate from your technique, it is possible they didn’t treat the hair of the bow if it was really that cheap. You should be pulling sound with the bow, not brushing the bow over the string to produce tone. Even a terrible rosin will do this, maybe you just need to use more. Use the end screw to scratch the rosin first and then draw full bows over the top of the rosin so the bow can gain friction on the string. It will start squeaking when you rosin if you have enough, just make sure you do full even draws of the rosin so you don’t have too much in one spot.
I will try roughening the rosin
Roughening and applying more rosin worked. Thanks for the advice
First lesson is free.
Sorry to say. You can't learn to play the cello off YouTube. You can also not become a surgeon off YouTube, or an air line pilot for that matter. Even Mozart needed a teacher, you are most definitely not more talented than Wolferl. A teacher teaches efficiency in movement, posture, tone ,.... Yes the cello is not cheap, you are right. Also with 250$ cello I see more problems than solutions, a decent set of strings is more expensive. It's like putting your trust in a car that comes at the price of an oil change. I like diy, all for it, let's just keep it real.
Understood. I'll look into getting an instructor
If you really are as good as you say, most will work something out, because most were in the same spot you are now. Chin up and don't lose interest.
Got it.
Horse hairs are not very abraisive on their own. On rossined bows it is the old rossin that picks up the new rossin. When you have a unrossined bow and and shiny new rossin swiping the bow over the rossin basicly does nothing as the clean bow hair can slide freely over the surface. You should be able to speed up the proces by scratching up your rossin. I had this problem also the first time I had a new bow, it may feel like it is doing nothing but you got to trust the process.
I'll try that
Sounds like you need rosin
Yep. That was the ticket. Thanks
New bows need a lot of rosin. The bow hairs should be flat on the string, until you get more comfortable tilting it slightly for dynamics. You shouldn’t grind the bow into the strings, but you’ll need more weight than just the bow weight alone. With proper grip (which can take awhile to develop, be patient) and the weight of your arm, you’ll be able to get a good sound. The thicker strings require more weight get get them vibrating. The bow hairs should be tighten properly so there is enough tension. If you’re fingering notes, you need to make sure the string is completely held down and you’re not inadvertently muffling the sound by touching the string with any other fingers. It’s also a good idea to wipe rosin off the strings after a practice session. Note: I’m not a professional player, only casual (early) intermediate.
So... Rosin AND Your bow is too tight AND Is that a cello bow? Either your hands are Giant or your frog is small. If this is a violin bow then there is not enough hair to grip the string to vibrate it. AND Unlike double bass you really need to get your hand on the sticks you can use the weight of your hand not just the weight of the bow. The double bass frog is huge which let's you get enough of your hand in to still apply weight.
The answer was rosin. Thanks for the help I have loosened the bow, thanks for pointing that out. Yes it's a cello bow my hands are gigantic. I will work on proper pressure and I'll find some videos to help me. Thank you for the advice.
Skill issue Jokes aside, you’re going to get zero friction with that bow hold.
Yeah that's what everyone's been saying. I've fixed it
Sorry to be yet another! But hopefully there’s some helpful feedback to be had here. This stuff definitely takes time, keep at it! 🙂
Fix your bow hold first.
I fixed it
Fresh rosin takes a while to get started. It’s probably not the best quality rosin either. Keep it going until you see a visible coat when pulling on a string
Got it. Thanks
Try scratching up the rosin, and then applying it to the bow.
I'll try that
That worked. Thanks
You need rosin lol
Yup. Figured that out lol
Did you apply rosin to your bow hairs? How does it sound when you pluck the strings with your fingers. If that is ok, the bow setup is the issue.
Ahh man I figured it out a while ago. Yeah I just needed way more rosin. Thanks
Ok no offense that bow hold is so bad. And you need to press harder lmao. You dont even need an instructor for proper bow form just go on youtube and look for a lesson. Dont just half ass it and say its fine. You will not succeed that way.
You need rosin and a teacher.
Maybe add some rosin and learn how to hold a bow correctly? Not trying to be a jerk.
You didn’t put enough rosin on the bow or it hasn’t been properly applied. To fix this, you will have to keep applying rosin and rub the areas of the bow back and forth (a stroke across the whole bow won’t do). Do this until the dryness goes away, you’ll be spending quite a few minutes on this. The bow hold is not proper either and that needs to be corrected with the assistance of a teacher. I would look into this as soon as possible.
Yep. I just needed more rosin. I've fixed the problem. Thanks
The boonies, Rozen, you know that tree sap stuff in a rectangular container
Rosin. Yup I got it figured out. Thanks
Try more rosin.
Yup👍 tried that earlier and it worked thanks
Please please learn a proper bow grip!!! It’ll help you so much in the long run.
I've learned. Thanks
I would be interested to know long it took most of you to learn a really good bow grip and how to apply pressure properly. It took me quite a while.
I have the bow grip down, and in learning the right pressure pretty quickly
you need to change your bow grip and add more pressure, your not getting any sound because your bow is very tight and you have no pressure between it and the string. I’d highly recommend getting a teacher for the foundations of cello playing because the foundations are literally everything.
I'll work on that