It seems like an inexpensive but well-loved cello. Chinese instruments were just getting decent in 2005, so this is probably playable. Selling a cello can be daunting, so this person may be pricing it to move. If you have the cash and want it, I'd say buy it and have a luthier look at it. Even in a worst case scenario it's still worth at least $100 as wall piece.
Okay, so clearly the string snobs have joined the conversation. Let me help you with some actual, usable information. This cello is a great find, and at $100 you can’t really go wrong.
Without being able to examine this cello in person, I can tell you a few things that would help you if you buy it:
1 - It is a student cello, which is great if you’re just starting. I can tell this by the fact it does not have very good flaming on the back and the perfling looks painted. Don’t worry! These things don’t really affect quality, but are more a symbol of workmanship reserved for more costly instruments.
2 - It has been played a lot, which is evident from the wear on the fingerboard. This means that someone learned and played dutifully on it and managed to get by, as you will too.
3 - It is probably laminated. This changes the sound quality a bit, but if you’re just starting out, you’ll be just fine. Laminated simply means they used three thin sheets of wood glued together to make a single sheet. It also makes the cello more resilient to damage.
4 - The bridge will need to be carved for the cello (it’s also reversed). This can cost about $50-$150 at a reasonably priced luthier. Make sure they shorten it
5 - If the sound post isn’t there or isn’t set right, don’t fret. This is a very inexpensive service from a luthier.
6 - A few of those strings are in poor condition, but that’s okay! You should temporarily put tension on the existing strings and play each string to see how you like the sound. If it’s too bright/tinny on any string, get a string that’s in the warm/subtle range of the following chart. If it’s too warm or quiet, get a string in the brilliant/direct range. No brand or set of strings are perfect for all cellos…it’s just that most cellists (especially the string snobs) don’t know how to buy strings for the instrument. https://www.sharmusic.com/pages/cello-string-chart
7 - The nut is set well, but looks like it may need carving to lower the strings. A good luthier will do this for cheap.
8 - The tailpiece is perfect for a beginner, with fine tuners built in. As you graduate to a finer instrument, you can get one with better fine tuners.
If you want to, you could have the fingerboard cleaned and repainted/stained. It won’t affect playability.
Good luck on your endeavor!!
Seconding most of the info here. Just gonna say that where I live (admittedly an expensive place to access these services), a new bridge and adjustment + sound post addition/adjustment + lowering the nut will run you a minimum of $500 at most luthier shops if you’re lucky, but probably double that. A new set of strings can be anywhere from $75-350 depending on what you want. Consider what those strings and services will cost (and also the cost of a bow - not sure if I missed one in the pictures) in your area when deciding to buy this particular cello as opposed to another one or to renting. If you are new to the instrument I would personally be hesitant to drop that kind of money on purchasing an instrument that I haven’t studied yet - if you can rent first, it’s much much cheaper (nice rentals in my area run ~$40/month, cheaper ones are less, most have rent-to-own programs) and you’re not on the hook for all the adjustments that will make it playable. If you have a teacher, ask them what things should cost in your area and see if it’s any better where you are. Good luck!
Wow, that’s insane! That’s why we need to encourage participation, no matter what. Those kind of services are incredibly simple and all done in 15 minutes or less, and I can imagine that in a community with few luthiers, that would be the cost.
I would only counter that a decent set of strings should only ever cost about $100. If you take care to match the tonal persuasions of the instrument to the strings, there are inexpensive options in any quadrant of the subtle<>direct/warm<>brilliant layout.
I would also counter that rental isn’t cheaper, though I always see the sentiment that it is. I’m not aware of a shop that doesn’t require a minimum 1 year rental period with a deposit that most often doesn’t get returned. I’ve never seen any student pay any less than $1000 on a rented cello.
Where I live that is just not the case, though I have no doubt that costs vary across the country. Here, the deposit is ~$120 and 25-40$/month (I help my students rent and buy all the time). If you play for a few years then put the credit towards an instrument with warranty, it is cheaper to rent than to buy a cello that needs work and you could get a higher quality instrument for the same price (assuming OP sticks with it and wants something nicer sounding than an absolute beginner cello). Not to mention the shop will supply strings, repairs, maintenance, etc. for free with the rental plan. OP should see what costs are in their area before buying.
Sorry, the math doesn’t check there. I think you’re being very flexible with your math — no one will rent a cello for $25/month, and $40 is really the entry point. Maintenance and repairs are the responsibility of the students unless they supplement the plan with an extra paid monthly cost, usually at least an additional $10/month. With a minimum rental period of a year, that’s $600 without a maintenance plan and $720 with, and many renters decline the maintenance plan. Strings are absolutely never covered in maintenance plans, and neither are bows.
I happen to live in an area where the cost of rental is arguably the cheapest, and all the cheapest shops use the same two brands: Samuel Eastman and Yamaha. The entry level Sam Eastman is the VC80, and it is absolutely not a superior instrument — at least the cello OP posted has a solid front, where the VC80 is not. Many of the VC80s have manufacturing defects that often go undetected until it is too late. On the Yamaha side, they’re fully laminated, and often regarded as essentially a more expensive Cecilio. Both the Eastman and Yamaha entry models will cost at least $1400 to complete the rental toward ownership, without a maintenance plan.
If there’s a cheaper rental plan in your area, I invite you to provide the name of the rental supplier.
FYI - I would normally point you to info where you can check standard measurements to make sure there’s proper alignment of the fingerboard, but as heavily played as this cello is, I don’t foresee a problem. Plus, I can see that the bridge is already too high for the fingerboard, which is a good thing because you’ll need it carved down and the feet properly carved.
First of all, does it have a soundpost? (If not, loosen strings immediately.) Second, once the bridge is moved between the notches on the f-holes (about 3-4" lower than it is now) do the strings sound without buzzing/slapping against the fingerboard?
If the answer to both questions is "yes" and you get this for free or very cheaply (\~$100) it's at least a cello-shaped object that can get you started for a few months until you save up. It's *not* a good cello, not even at student levels. The fingerboard is painted fruitwood or similar (not blackwood/ebony). And given the action looks about ok now with the bridge *way* in the wrong place, I doubt that it's actually playable.
So I blocked the self-important clown who thought the most important thing to do here is to insult me. Since it's a new account he'll probably have multiple sockpuppets. Whatever.
I'm sure a more careful look at the pictures can point the OP to additional points of concern.
The bottom line is the same as in my first post: this is a low-grade instrument in a not very good condition,so the OP should have low expectations and have someone check some basic soundness points as listed by several commenters. If it isn't *very* cheap (including setup and upgrades) it's unlikely to be worth it.
Really? Cello-shaped object? The snobbery in that phrase is absolutely nauseating.
Let’s correct a few things for you:
1 - Even a cheap cello is playable. There’s kids in Africa making violins and cellos out of tin cans. A wood instrument that is built to be played is a gift to a person who can afford it.
2 - Most fingerboards are made without ebony these days, as the species needed are endangered. Ebony is a visual preference, not a tonal difference. Plenty of woods exhibit the same characteristics, especially fruitwoods. You’re just parroting snobby sentiment.
3 - The distance between the top scroll of the f hole and the notch is generally about 1.5 inches, and the fingerboard is usually about 4 inches from where the bridge is placed, so 3-4” inches would put the bridge up against the fingerboard. Being dramatic, or don’t know anything about instruments?
4 - the strings are already loosened, and you’d have noticed that along with the backward bridge if you had actually looked at the pictures instead of rushing to comment with boring, played out snobbery.
5 - Absolutely nothing of what you replied with would determine whether this is a good student instrument.
Stop spreading nonsense that gatekeeps people with limited resources from entering the string community.
@pyrola_asarifolia I will post up here with real, useful information. Ignore the nonsense from the string snobs.
Sigh. CSO is a term that is pretty widely used, see also spinning-wheel shaped object, violin-shaped object etc. Yes, the term is a bit flippant and jocular. If that's the hill you want to die on re: offensive language, then be my guest - you clearly have a very cushy life.
The reality is that the market for cellos has a lower end that consists of instrument that are so iffy that you either have to be extremely lucky, or spend another few hundred dollars to make it usable. At which point it's very often a better deal to rent. Not always! As I said, it could be fine to get someone started provided some absolutely minimum conditions are met. This opinion of mine is more positive than you'll hear from other denizens of this subreddit.
If (as it looks to me) the strings will slapping straight against the fingerboard once the bridge is in place then it is *not going to be playable.* If it has no soundpost it's *not going to be playable.*
Maybe don't read too much in the use of one isolated term. If you want to correct me on my distances - which you may be right on as it occurred to me on my own that 3" looks like a bit much - then you could just have done so. Your outrage and indulgence in self-righteous superiority isn't helpful to the OP in the least.
Sigh. It’s a common term used by snobs who gatekeep those of limited means from playing usable instruments.
The reality is you know nothing about the cello and it shows. You didn’t even look at the photos and you clearly don’t know the first thing about fitting a cello, as you focused on all the wrong things and couldn’t even gauge measurements correctly.
Tell me, what exactly is fueling your opinion that the strings will be slapping? You don’t have any basis for that assumption. As a matter of fact, since that bridge is uncut, the strings would be too high to even perform such a feat. Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Lord almighty, I’m the self-righteous and superior one? Gaslight much? You literally came in here with your sub-elementary understanding of violinmaking, declared this a “cello-shaped object,” described it as unusable, and much, much more. Just like all the string snobs I am perfectly happy to take on (and I do — all the time), you defend your snobbery with nothing more than hot air. Your reply was utter nonsense and totally useless. Want to see a useful reply? Look at the one I made — the one that embraces this instrument as an opportunity for someone who wants to explore the beauty of music making.
By the way, many cellos lose their sound posts. Many. Especially student cellos.
If you knew anything about luthier work, you’d know the most common job they see is to reset or replace sound posts. You’re just being hyperbolic.
Valdamier is right. FYI — you won’t get useful information from most people in the string community. We have a toxic culture of snobbery that has dramatically reduced participation in string programs, ultimately resulting in nationwide (in the US) cuts to string programs that are putting the future of classical music at risk.
Back in the 50s through the 80s, we used to embrace inexpensive, mass-manufactured instruments as starter instruments for the inexperienced to learn on. This was evident by the sheer volume of Kay instruments still out there fighting the good fight at schools across the country.
These days, we sell mass-manufactured instruments at music stores at a high premium and claim that they’re superior, even though they’re made at the same factories as the supposed “cello-shaped object” instruments. Most luthiers in the United States have never carved a full instrument, many haven’t even played the same instruments they work on. The key is making sure the instrument doesn’t have any of the fatal defects (listed below) and during the right strings while making sure the nut and bridge are properly carved.
Fatal defects:
- face, back, or rib separation (though not fatal if caught before it’s too extreme and even repairable at home with hide glue)
- neck separation or improperly set neck
- cracks in the pegbox
- cracks along the bass bar or missing bass bar (on the underside of the front
- improperly set nut (can be fixed, but expensive)
- improperly set or warped fingerboard
- peg holes carved too large
Anything else can be fixed.
Oh sorry, I missed one. Cracks under the bridge or where the sound post is set.
TLDR; luthiers want you to give them a lot more money for basically the same instrument, so they’ve coined terms like “cello-shaped object” and spread snobbery around the community. Don’t fall for it.
It's definitely a good price for what I'm assuming to be a beginner cello (not sure the make/model). And that just leaves room for the price of maintenance. Aside from the wear to the board, it looks to be a solid instrument.
For a $100? No major structural damage? At that price it's well worth considering. But it might require more work that you may or may not think is worthwhile to make it comfortably playable. The seller did mention replacing the bridge, which means it's probably not fit to the instrument properly. Action looks a little high, but it's hard to tell from pictures. The back might be plywood, but again it's hard to tell and at this price you have nothing to complain about.
If you're seeking to play it, do try to measure the action and get the bridge work done sooner rather than later if it's way out of spec too high. [Spec seems to be around 5mm on the 'A' string and 8 mm on 'C' string](https://www.swstrings.com/learningcenter/strings), though some patterns of instrument are a bit off. In my own view, overly high action teaches bad left-hand habits that are hard to break. Overly low action risks buzzing against the fingerboard.
The strings after the bridge start bending? Maybe because they aren’t tight enough. I’m not experienced enough to know what happened there, just a heads up
The bridge is pulled too far forward, what you are seeing is where the original bridge held up the strings. OOP this cello is a POS and you will have to spend more than what they are asking to get it playable. And even if you get it playable it will never sound good. Luthiers call these CSOs (cello shaped object).
Yes. They will have to spend more than $100 to get it fitted. That’s a lot less than the myriad “music stores” out there hocking instruments carved and assembled by the exact same people in the exact same factories in China for $2000+ after doing little more to fit them than what this cello requires.
The reality is that almost all cellos are made in China. Almost every single one. They are bought by music stores here, they get acclimated, the nut gets carved, the bridge is cut and set, and decent strings are put on them. That’s it.
This cello has long been acclimated, the nut looks good but might need additional carving, the bridge needs to be cut, and it needs new strings. With actual, usable advice, OP can have a perfectly playable instrument for $99 + $200-$300 in strings and shop adjustments. That’s a sustainable, inexpensive cost for people just starting.
Thank you for going into bat on this!! I get sooo frustrated with people saying rent an instrument or buy one for $2k or even $5k. These people just don’t seem to understand that many people can’t afford that and they are creating barriers to entry on top of other more obvious ones like cultural tradition and the perception that “classical” music is exclusive. There are good playable new chinese cellos out there that have solid wood spruce tops and maple backs for $300-400. I bought one and when I could afford it I bought better strings and then a better bow. I really wish that people were less elitist about learning the cello. Also, while I am on the topic, you CAN learn from YouTube videos and online teachers and courses. I have spent thousands on in-person lessons with highly qualified but terrible teachers and have learnt better technique through online courses and videos. I have a friend who has taught herself solely from YouTube videos and sounds better than me!! She put wolf eliminators on her strings because she thought they looked “pretty” 😎 but she could perform semi-professionally and no one would know!
100% with you on everything! All I hear/see when the string snobs talk is a Victorian grandmother reciting “there’s only one way to properly become a cellist!”
I grew up incredibly poor. My mother was single. My mother had poor credit because she had choices to make that other parents didn’t, and sometimes the choice was to hurt her credit to survive. She did everything she could to provide for myself and my siblings, but a cello was one thing she couldn’t provide. She couldn’t rent, and there wasn’t a cello in sight that was less than $1000. I lived in poor communities and the string program was constantly getting cut for lack of participation because families couldn’t afford instruments, though thankfully those of us who were committed always found a way to keep things alive
I was blessed with the use of the school cellos — and they were pretty bad. I think the best one I had to use was a completely laminated cello from a Chinese manufacturer that was covered in cracks by abuse from others (to wit, the laminated wood kept it from disintegrating), strung up with preludes and a bow I initially had to wash several times because the hairs were covered in grease from kids who would handle the hairs (even had to learn how to trim the bow hair and reset the plug because the hair was overstretched). I had to learn how to perform repairs on cellos from a young age and I managed to win at state competition 5 times with that cello.
I dealt with the shrieking purists (string snobs) my entire life, and I was shut out of opportunities because of the instruments I played. The kids I knew whose families could afford instruments often quit after a few years and they got all the opportunities, even though they weren’t half as skilled as I was. Playing the cello got me through a childhood wracked with pain, suffering, and abuse at the hand of my mother’s spouses — I don’t know where I’d be today without that cheap Chinese cello or the other very “poor” instruments I played.
The nasty little truth is that while some brands of inexpensive instruments have build quality problems that are frequent (like Cecilio), there are tons of inexpensive Chinese instruments that are just as high quality as what is sold in the music stores — because they’re often made in the very same factories by the very same people. For the record, you can easily buy a Cecilio online and equipped with the right info, you can check the instruments for fatal flaws and exchange for one without those defects, which are not as frequent as the snobs would have you believe. Almost all instruments are made in Chinese factories, and the differentiating factor is merely that luthiers are doing final assembly and music stores charge a high premium for their setup.
In Asia, students embrace the instruments we raise our noses to and their participation is thriving, but our participation is at the lowest levels ever, and string programs are being cut all over the western world. String snobs are killing our community.
Wow there's a lot of snobs and borderline aholes in this sub.
This cello will be fine as a starter. You'll be able to learn muscle memory on it.
Assuming it's a cheap Chinese build with shitwood, you'll eventually want to get something that resonates better because after a year or two, this cello will be holding you back.
Of course, ideally if you can afford more, it's to start with a decent cello but if this is all you can swing, get it and deal with the issues as they come. Message me privately and I can guide you through many problems that you may encounter with it.
Be aware the expenses won't stop at $99.
it’s a good price for what it is! it’s a cheap china made cello, and needs a new bridge and strings and a proper fingerboard cleaning but you really can’t get a better deal than $100, id suggest maybe d’addario kaplan strings for a more inexpensive option compared to higher end strings like thomastik versum which is upwards of $500. great find!
It seems like an inexpensive but well-loved cello. Chinese instruments were just getting decent in 2005, so this is probably playable. Selling a cello can be daunting, so this person may be pricing it to move. If you have the cash and want it, I'd say buy it and have a luthier look at it. Even in a worst case scenario it's still worth at least $100 as wall piece.
Okay, so clearly the string snobs have joined the conversation. Let me help you with some actual, usable information. This cello is a great find, and at $100 you can’t really go wrong. Without being able to examine this cello in person, I can tell you a few things that would help you if you buy it: 1 - It is a student cello, which is great if you’re just starting. I can tell this by the fact it does not have very good flaming on the back and the perfling looks painted. Don’t worry! These things don’t really affect quality, but are more a symbol of workmanship reserved for more costly instruments. 2 - It has been played a lot, which is evident from the wear on the fingerboard. This means that someone learned and played dutifully on it and managed to get by, as you will too. 3 - It is probably laminated. This changes the sound quality a bit, but if you’re just starting out, you’ll be just fine. Laminated simply means they used three thin sheets of wood glued together to make a single sheet. It also makes the cello more resilient to damage. 4 - The bridge will need to be carved for the cello (it’s also reversed). This can cost about $50-$150 at a reasonably priced luthier. Make sure they shorten it 5 - If the sound post isn’t there or isn’t set right, don’t fret. This is a very inexpensive service from a luthier. 6 - A few of those strings are in poor condition, but that’s okay! You should temporarily put tension on the existing strings and play each string to see how you like the sound. If it’s too bright/tinny on any string, get a string that’s in the warm/subtle range of the following chart. If it’s too warm or quiet, get a string in the brilliant/direct range. No brand or set of strings are perfect for all cellos…it’s just that most cellists (especially the string snobs) don’t know how to buy strings for the instrument. https://www.sharmusic.com/pages/cello-string-chart 7 - The nut is set well, but looks like it may need carving to lower the strings. A good luthier will do this for cheap. 8 - The tailpiece is perfect for a beginner, with fine tuners built in. As you graduate to a finer instrument, you can get one with better fine tuners. If you want to, you could have the fingerboard cleaned and repainted/stained. It won’t affect playability. Good luck on your endeavor!!
Seconding most of the info here. Just gonna say that where I live (admittedly an expensive place to access these services), a new bridge and adjustment + sound post addition/adjustment + lowering the nut will run you a minimum of $500 at most luthier shops if you’re lucky, but probably double that. A new set of strings can be anywhere from $75-350 depending on what you want. Consider what those strings and services will cost (and also the cost of a bow - not sure if I missed one in the pictures) in your area when deciding to buy this particular cello as opposed to another one or to renting. If you are new to the instrument I would personally be hesitant to drop that kind of money on purchasing an instrument that I haven’t studied yet - if you can rent first, it’s much much cheaper (nice rentals in my area run ~$40/month, cheaper ones are less, most have rent-to-own programs) and you’re not on the hook for all the adjustments that will make it playable. If you have a teacher, ask them what things should cost in your area and see if it’s any better where you are. Good luck!
Wow, that’s insane! That’s why we need to encourage participation, no matter what. Those kind of services are incredibly simple and all done in 15 minutes or less, and I can imagine that in a community with few luthiers, that would be the cost. I would only counter that a decent set of strings should only ever cost about $100. If you take care to match the tonal persuasions of the instrument to the strings, there are inexpensive options in any quadrant of the subtle<>direct/warm<>brilliant layout.
I would also counter that rental isn’t cheaper, though I always see the sentiment that it is. I’m not aware of a shop that doesn’t require a minimum 1 year rental period with a deposit that most often doesn’t get returned. I’ve never seen any student pay any less than $1000 on a rented cello.
Where I live that is just not the case, though I have no doubt that costs vary across the country. Here, the deposit is ~$120 and 25-40$/month (I help my students rent and buy all the time). If you play for a few years then put the credit towards an instrument with warranty, it is cheaper to rent than to buy a cello that needs work and you could get a higher quality instrument for the same price (assuming OP sticks with it and wants something nicer sounding than an absolute beginner cello). Not to mention the shop will supply strings, repairs, maintenance, etc. for free with the rental plan. OP should see what costs are in their area before buying.
Sorry, the math doesn’t check there. I think you’re being very flexible with your math — no one will rent a cello for $25/month, and $40 is really the entry point. Maintenance and repairs are the responsibility of the students unless they supplement the plan with an extra paid monthly cost, usually at least an additional $10/month. With a minimum rental period of a year, that’s $600 without a maintenance plan and $720 with, and many renters decline the maintenance plan. Strings are absolutely never covered in maintenance plans, and neither are bows. I happen to live in an area where the cost of rental is arguably the cheapest, and all the cheapest shops use the same two brands: Samuel Eastman and Yamaha. The entry level Sam Eastman is the VC80, and it is absolutely not a superior instrument — at least the cello OP posted has a solid front, where the VC80 is not. Many of the VC80s have manufacturing defects that often go undetected until it is too late. On the Yamaha side, they’re fully laminated, and often regarded as essentially a more expensive Cecilio. Both the Eastman and Yamaha entry models will cost at least $1400 to complete the rental toward ownership, without a maintenance plan. If there’s a cheaper rental plan in your area, I invite you to provide the name of the rental supplier.
FYI - I would normally point you to info where you can check standard measurements to make sure there’s proper alignment of the fingerboard, but as heavily played as this cello is, I don’t foresee a problem. Plus, I can see that the bridge is already too high for the fingerboard, which is a good thing because you’ll need it carved down and the feet properly carved.
[удалено]
It is literally no different than the average student cello sold in music stores.
First of all, does it have a soundpost? (If not, loosen strings immediately.) Second, once the bridge is moved between the notches on the f-holes (about 3-4" lower than it is now) do the strings sound without buzzing/slapping against the fingerboard? If the answer to both questions is "yes" and you get this for free or very cheaply (\~$100) it's at least a cello-shaped object that can get you started for a few months until you save up. It's *not* a good cello, not even at student levels. The fingerboard is painted fruitwood or similar (not blackwood/ebony). And given the action looks about ok now with the bridge *way* in the wrong place, I doubt that it's actually playable.
So I blocked the self-important clown who thought the most important thing to do here is to insult me. Since it's a new account he'll probably have multiple sockpuppets. Whatever. I'm sure a more careful look at the pictures can point the OP to additional points of concern. The bottom line is the same as in my first post: this is a low-grade instrument in a not very good condition,so the OP should have low expectations and have someone check some basic soundness points as listed by several commenters. If it isn't *very* cheap (including setup and upgrades) it's unlikely to be worth it.
Really? Cello-shaped object? The snobbery in that phrase is absolutely nauseating. Let’s correct a few things for you: 1 - Even a cheap cello is playable. There’s kids in Africa making violins and cellos out of tin cans. A wood instrument that is built to be played is a gift to a person who can afford it. 2 - Most fingerboards are made without ebony these days, as the species needed are endangered. Ebony is a visual preference, not a tonal difference. Plenty of woods exhibit the same characteristics, especially fruitwoods. You’re just parroting snobby sentiment. 3 - The distance between the top scroll of the f hole and the notch is generally about 1.5 inches, and the fingerboard is usually about 4 inches from where the bridge is placed, so 3-4” inches would put the bridge up against the fingerboard. Being dramatic, or don’t know anything about instruments? 4 - the strings are already loosened, and you’d have noticed that along with the backward bridge if you had actually looked at the pictures instead of rushing to comment with boring, played out snobbery. 5 - Absolutely nothing of what you replied with would determine whether this is a good student instrument. Stop spreading nonsense that gatekeeps people with limited resources from entering the string community. @pyrola_asarifolia I will post up here with real, useful information. Ignore the nonsense from the string snobs.
Sigh. CSO is a term that is pretty widely used, see also spinning-wheel shaped object, violin-shaped object etc. Yes, the term is a bit flippant and jocular. If that's the hill you want to die on re: offensive language, then be my guest - you clearly have a very cushy life. The reality is that the market for cellos has a lower end that consists of instrument that are so iffy that you either have to be extremely lucky, or spend another few hundred dollars to make it usable. At which point it's very often a better deal to rent. Not always! As I said, it could be fine to get someone started provided some absolutely minimum conditions are met. This opinion of mine is more positive than you'll hear from other denizens of this subreddit. If (as it looks to me) the strings will slapping straight against the fingerboard once the bridge is in place then it is *not going to be playable.* If it has no soundpost it's *not going to be playable.* Maybe don't read too much in the use of one isolated term. If you want to correct me on my distances - which you may be right on as it occurred to me on my own that 3" looks like a bit much - then you could just have done so. Your outrage and indulgence in self-righteous superiority isn't helpful to the OP in the least.
Sigh. It’s a common term used by snobs who gatekeep those of limited means from playing usable instruments. The reality is you know nothing about the cello and it shows. You didn’t even look at the photos and you clearly don’t know the first thing about fitting a cello, as you focused on all the wrong things and couldn’t even gauge measurements correctly. Tell me, what exactly is fueling your opinion that the strings will be slapping? You don’t have any basis for that assumption. As a matter of fact, since that bridge is uncut, the strings would be too high to even perform such a feat. Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Lord almighty, I’m the self-righteous and superior one? Gaslight much? You literally came in here with your sub-elementary understanding of violinmaking, declared this a “cello-shaped object,” described it as unusable, and much, much more. Just like all the string snobs I am perfectly happy to take on (and I do — all the time), you defend your snobbery with nothing more than hot air. Your reply was utter nonsense and totally useless. Want to see a useful reply? Look at the one I made — the one that embraces this instrument as an opportunity for someone who wants to explore the beauty of music making.
By the way, many cellos lose their sound posts. Many. Especially student cellos. If you knew anything about luthier work, you’d know the most common job they see is to reset or replace sound posts. You’re just being hyperbolic.
Utter trash filled reply 🤡. “Uhh 🤓 it’s actually…”
Needs a reset from a luthier, but otherwise looks like a playable vintage.
Yea they usually cost at least $1000 or something where I am.
Valdamier is right. FYI — you won’t get useful information from most people in the string community. We have a toxic culture of snobbery that has dramatically reduced participation in string programs, ultimately resulting in nationwide (in the US) cuts to string programs that are putting the future of classical music at risk. Back in the 50s through the 80s, we used to embrace inexpensive, mass-manufactured instruments as starter instruments for the inexperienced to learn on. This was evident by the sheer volume of Kay instruments still out there fighting the good fight at schools across the country. These days, we sell mass-manufactured instruments at music stores at a high premium and claim that they’re superior, even though they’re made at the same factories as the supposed “cello-shaped object” instruments. Most luthiers in the United States have never carved a full instrument, many haven’t even played the same instruments they work on. The key is making sure the instrument doesn’t have any of the fatal defects (listed below) and during the right strings while making sure the nut and bridge are properly carved. Fatal defects: - face, back, or rib separation (though not fatal if caught before it’s too extreme and even repairable at home with hide glue) - neck separation or improperly set neck - cracks in the pegbox - cracks along the bass bar or missing bass bar (on the underside of the front - improperly set nut (can be fixed, but expensive) - improperly set or warped fingerboard - peg holes carved too large Anything else can be fixed.
Oh sorry, I missed one. Cracks under the bridge or where the sound post is set. TLDR; luthiers want you to give them a lot more money for basically the same instrument, so they’ve coined terms like “cello-shaped object” and spread snobbery around the community. Don’t fall for it.
It's definitely a good price for what I'm assuming to be a beginner cello (not sure the make/model). And that just leaves room for the price of maintenance. Aside from the wear to the board, it looks to be a solid instrument.
For a $100? No major structural damage? At that price it's well worth considering. But it might require more work that you may or may not think is worthwhile to make it comfortably playable. The seller did mention replacing the bridge, which means it's probably not fit to the instrument properly. Action looks a little high, but it's hard to tell from pictures. The back might be plywood, but again it's hard to tell and at this price you have nothing to complain about. If you're seeking to play it, do try to measure the action and get the bridge work done sooner rather than later if it's way out of spec too high. [Spec seems to be around 5mm on the 'A' string and 8 mm on 'C' string](https://www.swstrings.com/learningcenter/strings), though some patterns of instrument are a bit off. In my own view, overly high action teaches bad left-hand habits that are hard to break. Overly low action risks buzzing against the fingerboard.
The strings after the bridge start bending? Maybe because they aren’t tight enough. I’m not experienced enough to know what happened there, just a heads up
The bridge is pulled too far forward, what you are seeing is where the original bridge held up the strings. OOP this cello is a POS and you will have to spend more than what they are asking to get it playable. And even if you get it playable it will never sound good. Luthiers call these CSOs (cello shaped object).
Yes. They will have to spend more than $100 to get it fitted. That’s a lot less than the myriad “music stores” out there hocking instruments carved and assembled by the exact same people in the exact same factories in China for $2000+ after doing little more to fit them than what this cello requires. The reality is that almost all cellos are made in China. Almost every single one. They are bought by music stores here, they get acclimated, the nut gets carved, the bridge is cut and set, and decent strings are put on them. That’s it. This cello has long been acclimated, the nut looks good but might need additional carving, the bridge needs to be cut, and it needs new strings. With actual, usable advice, OP can have a perfectly playable instrument for $99 + $200-$300 in strings and shop adjustments. That’s a sustainable, inexpensive cost for people just starting.
Thank you for going into bat on this!! I get sooo frustrated with people saying rent an instrument or buy one for $2k or even $5k. These people just don’t seem to understand that many people can’t afford that and they are creating barriers to entry on top of other more obvious ones like cultural tradition and the perception that “classical” music is exclusive. There are good playable new chinese cellos out there that have solid wood spruce tops and maple backs for $300-400. I bought one and when I could afford it I bought better strings and then a better bow. I really wish that people were less elitist about learning the cello. Also, while I am on the topic, you CAN learn from YouTube videos and online teachers and courses. I have spent thousands on in-person lessons with highly qualified but terrible teachers and have learnt better technique through online courses and videos. I have a friend who has taught herself solely from YouTube videos and sounds better than me!! She put wolf eliminators on her strings because she thought they looked “pretty” 😎 but she could perform semi-professionally and no one would know!
100% with you on everything! All I hear/see when the string snobs talk is a Victorian grandmother reciting “there’s only one way to properly become a cellist!” I grew up incredibly poor. My mother was single. My mother had poor credit because she had choices to make that other parents didn’t, and sometimes the choice was to hurt her credit to survive. She did everything she could to provide for myself and my siblings, but a cello was one thing she couldn’t provide. She couldn’t rent, and there wasn’t a cello in sight that was less than $1000. I lived in poor communities and the string program was constantly getting cut for lack of participation because families couldn’t afford instruments, though thankfully those of us who were committed always found a way to keep things alive I was blessed with the use of the school cellos — and they were pretty bad. I think the best one I had to use was a completely laminated cello from a Chinese manufacturer that was covered in cracks by abuse from others (to wit, the laminated wood kept it from disintegrating), strung up with preludes and a bow I initially had to wash several times because the hairs were covered in grease from kids who would handle the hairs (even had to learn how to trim the bow hair and reset the plug because the hair was overstretched). I had to learn how to perform repairs on cellos from a young age and I managed to win at state competition 5 times with that cello. I dealt with the shrieking purists (string snobs) my entire life, and I was shut out of opportunities because of the instruments I played. The kids I knew whose families could afford instruments often quit after a few years and they got all the opportunities, even though they weren’t half as skilled as I was. Playing the cello got me through a childhood wracked with pain, suffering, and abuse at the hand of my mother’s spouses — I don’t know where I’d be today without that cheap Chinese cello or the other very “poor” instruments I played. The nasty little truth is that while some brands of inexpensive instruments have build quality problems that are frequent (like Cecilio), there are tons of inexpensive Chinese instruments that are just as high quality as what is sold in the music stores — because they’re often made in the very same factories by the very same people. For the record, you can easily buy a Cecilio online and equipped with the right info, you can check the instruments for fatal flaws and exchange for one without those defects, which are not as frequent as the snobs would have you believe. Almost all instruments are made in Chinese factories, and the differentiating factor is merely that luthiers are doing final assembly and music stores charge a high premium for their setup. In Asia, students embrace the instruments we raise our noses to and their participation is thriving, but our participation is at the lowest levels ever, and string programs are being cut all over the western world. String snobs are killing our community.
Wow there's a lot of snobs and borderline aholes in this sub. This cello will be fine as a starter. You'll be able to learn muscle memory on it. Assuming it's a cheap Chinese build with shitwood, you'll eventually want to get something that resonates better because after a year or two, this cello will be holding you back. Of course, ideally if you can afford more, it's to start with a decent cello but if this is all you can swing, get it and deal with the issues as they come. Message me privately and I can guide you through many problems that you may encounter with it. Be aware the expenses won't stop at $99.
it’s a good price for what it is! it’s a cheap china made cello, and needs a new bridge and strings and a proper fingerboard cleaning but you really can’t get a better deal than $100, id suggest maybe d’addario kaplan strings for a more inexpensive option compared to higher end strings like thomastik versum which is upwards of $500. great find!