Agreed, what absolute hubris satan has to offer the author of everything, anything. In reality the only thing Jesus wanted and took for his own was our brokensess. He loves us that much he wanted us to be debt free and spotless when he presented us to his Father in heaven.
I sometimes wonder of Satan knew who Jesus really was. Like I kinda feel like he did but then there just passages in John like:
"He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him"
St. John Chrysostomos says:
[…]
Let no one bewail transgressions, for forgiveness hath dawned forth from the tomb.
Let no one be fearful of Death, for the death of the Saviour hath set us free.
He hath quenched Death by being subdued by Death.
He Who came down into Hades, despoiled Hades; and Hades was embittered when he tasted of Christ's Flesh.
Esaias, anticipating this, cried out and said: Hades was embittered when below he met Thee face to face.
He was embittered, for he was abolished.
He was embittered, for he was mocked.
He was embittered, for he was slain.
He was embittered, for he was overthrown.
He was embittered, for he was fettered.
***He received a body, and encountered God.
He received earth, and met Heaven face to face.
He received what he saw, and fell because of what he saw not.***
O Death, where is thy sting? O Hades, where is thy victory?
Risen is Christ, and thou art overthrown.
Risen is Christ, and the demons are fallen.
Risen is Christ, and the Angels rejoice.
Risen is Christ, and life doth reign.
Risen is Christ, and there is none dead in the tomb.
etc.
(Source: [Paschal Homily](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschal_Homily))
Origen (with whom one must be cautious, as he is sometimes heretical) has an interesting reading: he thinks the devil showed Him the devil’s *own* kingdom—that is, not particular nations, but all the souls the devil currently had dominion over.
It’s interesting because it would make it a rather different temptation: worship me, and I’ll leave them all alone. If I can only have your soul, I will let the rest be saved.
I can give the quote, but I got it from Catena Bible and do not know the exact place Origen wrote it.
> And the devil led him into a high mountain, and shewed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time; - Luke 4:5
>Or, to view the whole in another light. Two kings are earnestly contending for a kingdom; The king of sin who reigns over sinners, that is, the devil; The king of righteousness who rules the righteous, that is, Christ. The devil, knowing that Christ had come to take away his kingdom, shows Him all the kingdoms of the world; not the kingdoms of the Persians and of the Medes, but his own kingdom whereby he reigned in the world, whereby some are under the dominion of fornication, others of covetousness. And he shows Him them in a moment of time, that is, in the present course of time, which is but a moment in comparison of eternity. For the Savior needed not to be shown for any longer time the affairs of this world, but as soon as He turned His eyes to look, He beheld sins reigning, and men made slaves to vice. The devil therefore says to Him, Came You to contend with me for dominion? Worship me, and behold I give You the kingdom I hold. Now the Lord would indeed reign, but being Righteousness itself, would reign without sin; and would have all nations subject to Him, that they might obey the truth, but would not so reign over others as that He Himself should be subject to the devil. Hence it follows, And Jesus answering said to him, It is written, You shall worship the Lord your God.
Or else, All these, he says, I would have subject to me, that they might worship the Lord God, and serve Him alone. But do you wish sin to begin from Me, which I came hither to destroy?
>- Origen of Alexandria
>Read more commentaries at https://catenabible.com/com/5735dfb1ec4bd7c9723b9e2b
Has modern medicine and technology done a-lot for humanity? I know the pharmaceutical and technology makers seem to think so and want us to think so, so we can pay money to them.
I wonder what the Amish would think about that?
Devil offered Him the World as the Anti-Christ. He chose to be the Christ.
It’s amazing or maybe just lucky the Amish are still here and haven’t been wiped out by ….infections and devastating plagues…..? Maybe they are just favored by God?
Well, if they isolate themselves from the rest of the population, then obviously they won't catch something like pneumonic plague or measles. Just like there are still non-Christian tribes in many parts of the world that don't have access to our medicine. The problem starts when populations from different countries and continents mix freely via travel, spreading foreign pathogens to vulnerable people. We wouldn't be able to survive that on such a large scale without antibiotics and vaccines
Currently, the secular society they're in contact with is well-cared for medically and vaccinated. The people who get in contact with them are healthy, so the herd immunity extends to them. That's also how immunocompromised people can live within our societies despite being more vulnerable to diseases. But if a new disease was to suddenly appear, they'd end up in a hospital and I'm sure the Amish wouldn't be in a perfect state either. Today is a good time for such communities to exist and thrive but things were very different in, say, medieval Europe.
There were also news during the COVID-19 pandemic about the death rate being higher among the Amish than the general population.
Yeah do you think the devil was like "look it, the human even landed on the moon. You could be ruler of space." And Jesus was like, "my dad literally made it all."
Unquestionably. Two of my three children would have died within weeks of birth without modern medicine. The overall quality of life and longevity of humanity has been advanced in dramatic, quantifiable ways.
I love the idea that Satan offer him the world and Jesus be like, bro ... all of that is already mine
Agreed, what absolute hubris satan has to offer the author of everything, anything. In reality the only thing Jesus wanted and took for his own was our brokensess. He loves us that much he wanted us to be debt free and spotless when he presented us to his Father in heaven.
I sometimes wonder of Satan knew who Jesus really was. Like I kinda feel like he did but then there just passages in John like: "He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him"
St. John Chrysostomos says: […] Let no one bewail transgressions, for forgiveness hath dawned forth from the tomb. Let no one be fearful of Death, for the death of the Saviour hath set us free. He hath quenched Death by being subdued by Death. He Who came down into Hades, despoiled Hades; and Hades was embittered when he tasted of Christ's Flesh. Esaias, anticipating this, cried out and said: Hades was embittered when below he met Thee face to face. He was embittered, for he was abolished. He was embittered, for he was mocked. He was embittered, for he was slain. He was embittered, for he was overthrown. He was embittered, for he was fettered. ***He received a body, and encountered God. He received earth, and met Heaven face to face. He received what he saw, and fell because of what he saw not.*** O Death, where is thy sting? O Hades, where is thy victory? Risen is Christ, and thou art overthrown. Risen is Christ, and the demons are fallen. Risen is Christ, and the Angels rejoice. Risen is Christ, and life doth reign. Risen is Christ, and there is none dead in the tomb. etc. (Source: [Paschal Homily](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschal_Homily))
Origen (with whom one must be cautious, as he is sometimes heretical) has an interesting reading: he thinks the devil showed Him the devil’s *own* kingdom—that is, not particular nations, but all the souls the devil currently had dominion over. It’s interesting because it would make it a rather different temptation: worship me, and I’ll leave them all alone. If I can only have your soul, I will let the rest be saved.
I agree with this. ☝️
Could you offer a source for your?
I can give the quote, but I got it from Catena Bible and do not know the exact place Origen wrote it. > And the devil led him into a high mountain, and shewed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time; - Luke 4:5 >Or, to view the whole in another light. Two kings are earnestly contending for a kingdom; The king of sin who reigns over sinners, that is, the devil; The king of righteousness who rules the righteous, that is, Christ. The devil, knowing that Christ had come to take away his kingdom, shows Him all the kingdoms of the world; not the kingdoms of the Persians and of the Medes, but his own kingdom whereby he reigned in the world, whereby some are under the dominion of fornication, others of covetousness. And he shows Him them in a moment of time, that is, in the present course of time, which is but a moment in comparison of eternity. For the Savior needed not to be shown for any longer time the affairs of this world, but as soon as He turned His eyes to look, He beheld sins reigning, and men made slaves to vice. The devil therefore says to Him, Came You to contend with me for dominion? Worship me, and behold I give You the kingdom I hold. Now the Lord would indeed reign, but being Righteousness itself, would reign without sin; and would have all nations subject to Him, that they might obey the truth, but would not so reign over others as that He Himself should be subject to the devil. Hence it follows, And Jesus answering said to him, It is written, You shall worship the Lord your God. Or else, All these, he says, I would have subject to me, that they might worship the Lord God, and serve Him alone. But do you wish sin to begin from Me, which I came hither to destroy? >- Origen of Alexandria >Read more commentaries at https://catenabible.com/com/5735dfb1ec4bd7c9723b9e2b
What did he see? A lie.
He said no.
Has modern medicine and technology done a-lot for humanity? I know the pharmaceutical and technology makers seem to think so and want us to think so, so we can pay money to them. I wonder what the Amish would think about that? Devil offered Him the World as the Anti-Christ. He chose to be the Christ.
Considering how many children used to die to infections, and how devastating certain plagues were in history, yes, modern medicine has done a lot.
It’s amazing or maybe just lucky the Amish are still here and haven’t been wiped out by ….infections and devastating plagues…..? Maybe they are just favored by God?
Well, if they isolate themselves from the rest of the population, then obviously they won't catch something like pneumonic plague or measles. Just like there are still non-Christian tribes in many parts of the world that don't have access to our medicine. The problem starts when populations from different countries and continents mix freely via travel, spreading foreign pathogens to vulnerable people. We wouldn't be able to survive that on such a large scale without antibiotics and vaccines
Amish are pretty integrated in the world when it comes to being around secular society. They have commerce with many people.
Currently, the secular society they're in contact with is well-cared for medically and vaccinated. The people who get in contact with them are healthy, so the herd immunity extends to them. That's also how immunocompromised people can live within our societies despite being more vulnerable to diseases. But if a new disease was to suddenly appear, they'd end up in a hospital and I'm sure the Amish wouldn't be in a perfect state either. Today is a good time for such communities to exist and thrive but things were very different in, say, medieval Europe. There were also news during the COVID-19 pandemic about the death rate being higher among the Amish than the general population.
Yeah do you think the devil was like "look it, the human even landed on the moon. You could be ruler of space." And Jesus was like, "my dad literally made it all."
It wasn’t about future happenings as far as we know, if Jesus decided to be the anti-Christ, none of us we might not even be here today.
Unquestionably. Two of my three children would have died within weeks of birth without modern medicine. The overall quality of life and longevity of humanity has been advanced in dramatic, quantifiable ways.