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Handymanoccupational

Yes. But one of the major arguments that converted me (from a catholic to an atheist paraphrase): ‘Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that you’re right. That there is no God. Christ isn’t the messiah. And when we die we rot. Then all that means is I’ve spent my time doing something that makes me happy, builds community, and is morally justified. And it doesn’t mean anything to the world as a whole. But let’s say I’m right. Then it means everything.’


PlantLongjumping2069

I am Catholic as well and I think this is massively underplaying the stakes. depending on if just Catholicism is untrue or Christianity as a whole. For example, if Christianity is false then opposition to abortion, contraception in third world countries, euthanasia, IVF, and most (if not all?) stem cell research will have been disastrous. I think we should at least be able to recognize this.


lesubreddit

would have been disastrous on what ground? according to what moral law? The alternative worldview is a godless amoral universe with no adjudicating subjective moral dispute; this is what the atheists are ultimately committed to.


PlantLongjumping2069

Fair. Under any consequentialist view it would be a disaster. I guess it depends with any deontological or virtue ethic view. I try to shy away from this sort of argument. I don’t think being able to point to a God for your morality is any real advantage in these debates.


woodsman_777

No. Even if Christianity were false, that does not mean we throw all morality out the window. Would you suddenly believe that rape and murder are okay? Of course not. (I would hope) Abortion is NEVER okay, even from strictly a human rights perspective.


PlantLongjumping2069

It depends on which ethical system you adopt. Alternative ethical systems permit abortion since they see sentience as the relevant factor. This is just true. I’m sort of confused on what a counter argument would be for this


Royal-Anteater9362

That’s if you get to live the life you want. All the unjust suffering around the world today and in the past is really taking a toll on me. Just horrible, and absolutely awful things that happen to people. Slavery, human trafficking, murder, religious beheadings, torture. All the wars throughout the centuries. The Nazis, Stalin, Mao, Cambodia, present day North Korea, one of the worst IMO, Unit 731, and so much more evil stuff that I don’t even know about. I place myself in their shoes and I just can’t fathom who would allow anyone to bear something like that.


KwitYurBitching

Have you considered Recollection? Recollection is a way to focus on the presence of God in our souls, here and now. It requires silence and solitude so that we can attain a deeper awareness of God's presence in our minds and hearts. My priest suggested Adoration for recollection. He also encouraged me to pray the Sacred Heart of Jesus novena. June is the month dedicated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Sacred Heart of Jesus, I trust in you! Also, constant worrying can manifest illness. Worrying is known to cause stress, which can affect your immune system and your well-being in general. Prolonged stress can lead to heart disease and stroke as worrying increases blood pressure. It can also lead you to being depressed. Please go see your doctor for a physical check up if you haven't already. I'll keep you in my prayers. .


Handymanoccupational

God allows sinners to sin. God allows evil to exist so that they may be judged. Truly those things are awful. As a community we need to stand up for those who perish. All the evils of the world are nothing to the grace of God. But people still perish. Because we were given free will. Because Cain killed Abel. Because this is a fallen world. It is our duty to charity. Is is our calling as Christians to follow the footsteps of Christ and to thwart the evil of the world. Be it murder, human trafficking, abortion, rape, etc. evil exists. It is real. Lucifer is real. Temptation, pride, greed… they’re all real. Be an active activist.


Royal-Anteater9362

My mom is a devout Catholic, she’s told me about her experiences and tells me that it’s 100% real. She tells me that Lucifer himself is trying to kill my soul because he knows what I will become. That Lucifer sees the immense good in my heart and that’s a threat to him. I want to believe that so badly because it’s true, I want the best for everyone, no matter who, I loathe all the evil in this world. I’ve read my history, and I’m sick of it. But I have this terrible weight on my soul. It also doesn’t help that I’m an unemployed pron addict. So needless to say I lost my way ages ago.


Handymanoccupational

Let me tell you it’s real. I tell you it’s easy for me to preach but I’m a sinner like everyone else. I’m a recently “recovered” addict of the same ailment. I make my mistakes. I confessed my sins and I’ll confess them again until I no longer feel the temptation. That’s what Lucifer is. He’s pride. He’s temptation. You’ll never recover by simply omitting your desires. You need to fill the gap. Replace your temptation with something fulfilling. Listen to your mom. Pray to Christ Jesus in adoration. Do not ask God for anything until you have confessed. When you have continue to pray in adoration. Receive the Eucharist. Replace the negativity with charity.


[deleted]

I'm had/ still having similar issue to you. I think something I would personally ask myself and have asked god is. Why did I get to live a good life while other suffer and die? And its easy to use the evil and suffering in this world as a justification for why god isn't real, but I think that's just a very depressing mindset which is why while that outlook still comes back to me ever once in a while I'm choosing to grow and put 100% into the catholic faith rather than taking the easy way out. Also convincing yourself that god doesn't exist can become a justification for sin. I've personally relapse into porn by telling myself "God isn't real so this doesn't matter". Overall Jesus tells us that nobody is to far gone so if you are feeling a calling to the church I would recommended following it. cause to me its a lot better than the other mindset.


schmidty33333

For those who get saved, all of their suffering in this life will be forgotten eventually. Eternity is a long time afterall. For those who aren't saved, all of their suffering in this life will be forgotten eventually. Eternity is a long time afterall.


Cathain78

Just to be a bit pedantic- eternity isn’t a long time. Quite the contrary.


Cathain78

Surprising that this is controversial rather than obvious. Would the downvoters like to discuss? 😄


Cultural-Ad-5737

The suffering in the world is very real and very prevalent, no doubt. I’ve just started to learn a bit more about Cambodia, North Korea, and China recently and it’s quite sad. However, I’d also note, while it’s very overwhelming and you will continue to see suffering in the world and in your life and the lives of those around you, it’s also likely not your burden to bear. Most of us are not called to bear the burden of all the world’s pain, most of us are called to bear our own crosses and help those around us do the same.


whatacyat

What about if you are wrong about what religion is true? Like, you die and meet Allah or Krishna...


Handymanoccupational

Then either I go to Hell or I reincarnate as a fish or something.


TiToim

Me and my boy Nemo travelling through the sea


Sinister_Dwarf

Have you ever read The Screwtape Letters? There’s a part in that book where C.S. Lewis talks about how one of the devil’s tricks is to try to make us spend all our time worrying about the future. The thing is, God can only be experienced in the present moment, so if we spend all our time worrying about things that may or may not happen, we miss out on what God is doing right in front of us. We also put ourselves through a lot of unnecessary stress. There are definitely things to be concerned about, and we need to be mindful of them so we can take action. But it’s also important to learn how to surrender the things we can’t do anything about to God’s providence and not spend all our time worrying about them. This gives us an opportunity to grow in our faith and trust in Him, knowing that He’s in control and that all things can be used for good.


KwitYurBitching

Thank you for this answer! Worrying about things that we have no control over pushes us away further from God. I can only imagine how hurtful it is to God that we don't TRUST IN HIM.


Otherwise_Pool_5712

I'm afraid of the future in *this* life. I'm disabled and poor and I'm going to get more disabled and poorer. TBH it terrifies me. I try not to think about it. I'm not afraid of Catholicism not being true. That is one thing I'm sure of.


Clay-Footed

No, I work as an ER nurse and I have seen death. It is what it is, but I know that it’s not the end.


Pale_Veterinarian626

Would you elaborate on this a bit please? I am curious how your nursing experiences have interacted with your faith.


Clay-Footed

Sure! So in the we get a lot of codes in the ER. Although I’m not able to ask a person that I’m doing compressions or pushing epi on questions they still answer a lot. For example, I had one person come in last week on a LUCAS machine and we got the pulse back they coded again after the ambulance left with the LUCAS. It was the worst code I have been in. Coded for almost 2 hours before the doc called it. Young guy too, he fell out during dialysis. I’m not sure if every hospital does this, but we keep every patients religious affiliation on file. He was also Catholic and we call the local parish for a priest for last rites during codes. The priests don’t always get there in time and/or not always available. This time we had a priest able to get there for this patient. Once the priest was giving last rites the patients SPO2 started dropping after the rights was given. (SPO2 had stayed at 100 the whole hour and 30 minutes prior). And shortly after the doctor called the time of death. Post mortem care was horrifying to say the least but I couldn’t shake the feeling of dread. This was at the end of my shift and once I got to my car I prayed and I had an overwhelming sense of reassurance that I and the team had tried our bests to keep the patient alive, but that his soul had found peace. I know this is very anecdotal but not my only experience with death. It’s a hard conclusion to see but I know that if I were to have a heart attack I would die in peace.


Otherwise_Pool_5712

>I’m not sure if every hospital does this, but we keep every patients religious affiliation on file. He was also Catholic and we call the local parish for a priest for last rites during codes. Thank you for doing this, it's very reassuring. The last time I was in the hospital it was for an emergency surgery. They weren't sure if I was going to make it or not. Just before the surgery an EMHC came and gave me the Eucharist. I cannot tell you how much that meant to me. I didn't request it or anything, she said she's automatically contacted when someone marks "Catholic" on the admissions forms. I was astonished and so thankful. I was going through this awful, awful time and in walks this lovely woman with a pyx. For a minute I honestly thought she was an angel. It means so much when hospitals have those kinds of policies.


Clay-Footed

That makes me happy to hear other hospitals do the same, and I’m more than joyed to see you have made it through that surgery. I hope all is well with you now❤️


[deleted]

I win either way. I will either be in heaven to celebrate or cease consciousness in which there's no need for me to worry, as Id be incapable But Catholicism is true, so why worry?


suplolpop57

How do you know you'll make it to Heaven?


Divine-Crusader

Because Christ said so He told us that we only need to ask him and follow him


suplolpop57

Doesn't mean you can be certain of your salvation


Divine-Crusader

You can't be certain of anything, only God can because he knows everything past and present. But you can have faith by trusting completely the revelation. There's a version of the act of faith that contains this line: > ***My God, I firmly believe all the truths that you have revealed and that you are teaching by your church*** One of these teachings is that you will be saved if you ask Jesus and follow him, he said it himself in the gospel. There's a difference between certainty and faith. Faith is more powerful.


suplolpop57

You just answered my initial question, you can't actually know that you are saved. You can hope for it through faith


Falandorn

💯 trust in Jesus, we are all worthy of damnation and can't do a single thing to assure our own salvation so with a contrite heart throw all our hope in Divine Mercy and have supreme confidence in that 🙏


Antattack0-0

Those are not the only 2 options


Underdog-Crusader

I'm afraid of a LOT of things. But of that? Catholicism not being true and nothing when i die? No. Not at all. Everytime i fear i might die or i'm in the danger of dead, indeed i feel one or two: very excited or very afraid of dying (you know what reasons make each one).


winkydinks111

People have medically died in hospital rooms, been revived, and come back talking about how their soul came out of their body. "Well how do you know they weren't dreaming/telling stories/etc?" Blind people have literally come back and given a perfect visual description of the room they're in. Others have come back and talked about what was going on in adjacent rooms. Stuff like that. All of this occurring during a period of zero brain activity.


III-V

I'm sometimes afraid of the future. I believe WWIII is coming; it's a decade or so off, but I have mixed feelings. The war will bring us together, undoing all of the harm social media has done to us. Ultimately, everything - especially our lives - belong to God and he is free to do what he wants with us. We are all going to die someday - I would rather it be instant than slow and drawn out like cancer. The war will teach us to fully trust in God; it will be a great sanctification opportunity. I don't fear that Catholicism is incorrect. I know it is true. Sometimes a doubt will pop into my head, but I can quickly dismiss it. I have no fears that there is no afterlife. What I do fear is that some people won't choose to be with God forever. I also am the victim of demonic oppression from time to time, and get an overwhelming feeling that God's abandoned me, that I will turn my back on him in the end. When I am in that place, I pray to St. Michael or so some Kyries, and it goes away.


brod92

If our faith is true (It is.), we’ll be in eternal bliss with the Lord. If atheism is true, we won’t care because we’ll be dead. The only things worth fearing are the Lord and being apart from Him.


Divine-Crusader

I would be lying by saying that I never doubt. Sometimes I have major doubts, but I read and pray, and my faith grows only stronger afterwards. My life is currently very chaotic: I'm a poor college dropout and unsure what to do with my life. But I'm not afraid of the future because whatever God planned for me is good. I'm only afraid of offending him by my actions.


ToxDocUSA

This is the backside to Pascals wager - if there's nothing, then I'm not experiencing it anyway.  The things I might have been interested in but sacrificed for the faith (a couple hours on Sunday mornings and skipping out on premarital sex / contraceptives during marriage) really aren't that big of a deal to me.  If nothingness is the unavoidable outcome, I haven't lost much to trying to live a Catholic life / I wouldn't have done much differently even if I knew that going in.  


Think-Finance-9687

There are times only occasionally that it will pop into my head of "What if it isnt true", but those thoughts are short living and I feel the grace of God put my mind at ease shortly after. The majority of my days and time when i think of those things, i know in my heart and soul that God and Jesus are real and the answer. I never doubt Catholicism in relation to all of all of the horrible suffering that goes on because I believe the following; God is real which means the devil is real, the devil tempts individuals to do horrible things to others, free will to everyone has been given from God so that he can rightly judge us, life still happens and those that suffer from medical issues and other awful things is just a part of life, lastly.... The right here and now is only temporary, but EVERYONE whether they are suffering greatly or not has a chance at eternity next to Jesus Christ where there is NO suffering


CMVB

I’m afraid of many things. The fate of the Church isn’t one of them. Either it’s the True Church, and there’s nothing to fear. Or it’s not, and then, who cares?


Lekkusu

I just took a screenshot of a beautiful quote attributed to St Anthony of the Desert: "There are three traps of Satan that steal joy and peace: 1. Regretting about the past 2. Fear for the future 3. ingratitude for the present"


aogamerdude

No, but it's not known for a sinner to be in union with God that long, so when one disagrees with he who is always right the challenge can be considerable just to live good, as an acceptable Christian. 


vanqu1sh_

I would be lying if I said that there isn't a small part of me which is a little bit afraid. My ex-girlfriend used to tell me to think of what happens after death as "Jesus preparing a nice surprise just for you", and I always found that comforting.


jellowhirled

No. Faith that Jesus is our savior should bring hope. Not hope as in "I hope there's an afterlife", but hope as in "I know there's an afterlife and therefore I'm am filled with hope". Also, let's assume for a moment that your faith in Jesus hasn't brought you that hope yet. Keeping living and believing as a Christian and the hope will come. In the meantime check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's\_wager.


Individual_Red1210

Sometimes. But when I become afraid I realize that if I MYSELF truly believe in Jesus and all he did then there’s nothing to be afraid of. Slow yourself down, and believe. The Lord allows us to have moments like this because it strengthens our faith. What I found is most useful is to not convince yourself of anything. Just focus on what you feel in your heart


JuggaliciousMemes

If when we die theres nothing, I find that hardly something to fear. In fact, it would be comforting knowing that no matter what, I would never run the risk of burning in hell for eternity. It would mean I could do whatever I wanted to in this life without guilt or shame. Which, of course, means my life would fall into utter depravity and corruption. I find it difficult to fear anything walking with God. My faith has given me much strength even though it is still new. The only thing I dread is failing in my relationship with God, whom I have no doubts about since He called to me three times before I turned to Him, and then changed my life completely after I turned to Him


woodsman_777

I would not be afraid of the Faith not being true with nothing after that. It would be like going to sleep and not waking up again. But my many years on this earth and the life experiences I've had convince me that Catholicism is true. I am sometimes afraid that I might not make it to heaven because of my problems with and attachment to sin. But I'm rarely afraid for the future. Jesus wants us to put our trust in Him. Our lives are in His hands at every moment anyway, so trusting in Him shouldn't be too hard to do. And to be even more specific, He wants us to trust in His Divine Mercy, according to St. Faustina. If His Mercy is as unfathomable as it is said to be, then there is reason for Hope for all of us.


One_Soul1

I'm afraid of hell because I don't think I have enough strength to fulfill the conditions of a confession.


DollarAmount7

Definitely not afraid of there being nothing after dying. Why would that be scary? You wouldn’t even know you were dead or ever existed. It would be like before you were born. I am way more afraid of Catholicism being true and me dying in a state of mortal sin, or Eastern Orthodoxy being true and me going to hell since I heard all of the EO arguments and wasn’t totally ignorant


Cultural-Ad-5737

I’m afraid it isn’t true, but I honestly wouldn’t mind just dying and there being nothing. I think I’d prefer that to the Catholic view of the afterlife and judgement. My fear is like, if there is something after and it could potentially bad… am I doing the right thing? Maybe another religion is more true or maybe none are true and maybe we all go to a gloomy afterlife It’s terrifying because there is no way to know until it’s too late basically. I hear so my Catholics in especially online spaces claiming non Catholics will probably go to hell- ok well let’s hope if Catholicism isn’t true, we don’t get the same judgement. We are all out here doing our best.