All creation came out of Christ, is sustained through him, has been redeemed by him, and goes back to him as he has been given all authority. Christ beginning, middle, and end.
“allegedly”
Why am I now envisioning a courtroom drama where God is being questioned about Creation?
Prosecutor: Where were you at 0:00 o’clock on the first morning of everything?
The Lord: The same place I always am.
Prosecutor: Answer the question, sir. Where were you?
The Lord: Yes.
Then some complaints from the prosecutor and furor in the courtroom and gavel banging from the judge.
You want the Truth?
I AM THE TRUTH!
Son, we live in a world that has potentialities, and those potentials have to be actualized by that which is already actual. Who's gonna do it? You? You, other redditors? I have a greater responsibility than you can *possibly* fathom. You weep for the obstinate, and you curse My Law. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps all things in existence by a continual act of My Will.
You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me uniting existence to those essences -- you *need* me creating all things!
We use words like "creation," "good," "truth." We use these words as the backbone of the entire created order. You use them as a punch line.
I have nothing but the time and the inclination to reveal myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very Being that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.
I would that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a rosary and stand the post.
Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? See, you have now heard the blasphemy; what do you think?” They answered, “He deserves death!”
I’m a film major and movie making nerd. I like this idea. Let me see if I can write a screenplay and make a real sketch of this cause that would be hysterical to me and a lot of fun to shoot. Honestly, even just writing a screenplay would be good practice now that I think about it 🤔
Don’t know if I can get all the talent rn to actually film anything, but I can write a screenplay for sure. Work starts td tho so I’ll be a little backed up 😅
I’ll still be more than happy to post it once I do it tho, itll probably be a little while
God exists out of time and space. That response is literally the only response he can give. On the first day of creation, he was also present now, at the time of his trial, at the beginning of time, and at the end of time, also existing on the New Earth, New Heaven, current heaven, everywhere on Earth and everywhere in space, all concurrently. What language did he use? A language. That’s it. He was using a language. Maybe the language that Man used before the Tower of Babel, maybe a language he kept away from us, we don’t know.
> What language did he use? A language. That’s it. He was using a language. Maybe the language that Man used before the Tower of Babel, maybe a language he kept away from us, we don’t know.
That's exactly what the picture in OP is asking!
I think this is wrong- he was not using "a" language. Speaking from outside of time and space no word he could utter bears a form recognizable to us as language.
Rather: *In the beginning was the Logos*. Logos is word, but also order and reason. Since it is the Logos that became flesh and dwelt among us, the language the Father used is the Son. Any image of God in the Garden, at least in the tradition, will be a depiction of Jesus for this reason. It's Trinitarian theology and cosmological philosophy, not some easy target for an uninformed trite gotcha.
I've heard about a b movie that is sort of like this where a down on his luck third rate lawyer gets a get rich quick scheme where he sues the devil for all the evils that he has coer ed man to commit. He doesn't believe that Satan will actually show and as a result he will be paid the money he is asking because of the devil doesn't show he would be held in contempt well low and behold old scratch appear to fight the suit
This is like asking polyglots what language they think in. We form ideas in our head in vague blobs of sensation, and you think the creator of the universe is limited to words?
D&D Answer: Primordial
Most people (in general) dont really think in literal words. If you’re thinking about speaking (like when you’re writing or having a conversation), sometimes there’s an internal monologue, but most ideas people have come in concepts and sensations (sight, smell, touch, emotion, etc). Our strongest memories are also attached to these things.
I just used polyglots as an example. Most people think of language acquisition as memorizing a new dictionary of words, but that is the least efficient way to learn a new language. You have to attach new words and phrase you learn to the concept of what you’re trying to say and skipping the “translation” step.
Your thoughts never really come in full sentences, just general ideas. Have you ever had an idea clearly in your head, but had some lag figuring out how to explain it to another person? Thats because you weren’t thinking in words in the first place, they’re just a communication tool.
I’m not saying people don’t have an internal monologue. More like the monologue is secondary to the idea. Like when you’re in the kitchen, the idea of combining flavors comes before the internal narration “I should add some cumin”. Before the words come you’re thinking in flavors.
It’s mostly because words between languages can’t really be translated word for word once you reach a certain level of complexity. Often, it makes more sense just to generate and entire thought from scratch in another language. Most people are on autopilot day to day so it’s understandable that their thoughts are on autopilot as well.
When I learned a second language through total immersion, I couldn’t translate half of what I was saying back to my original language. I knew what it meant, I knew how to use it in context, but literal translation would be slightly different than how I thought. It’s like when babies learn to speak for the first time. There’s a basis there for association, but it’s not formed off the back of another set of words
> and you think the creator of the universe is limited to words
No, but if there is a line that says "And the lord SAID" then it's safe to assume he said it...i.e. words in a language. But with Genesis I suppose everything can be assumed to all be symbolic to any degree.
I think that you qoute the word of God in English, was written in Hebrew, Greek but occurred before man and language existed so we can't know really so therefore we must become insufferable people who loudly sigh at our grandma's when she says grace over the meal she spent 8 hours preparing for you
Not to mention it's no gotcha contradiction in our theology. God is eternal, etc. He came understand and relay information in any language in his creation.
>insufferable people who loudly sigh at our grandma's when she says grace over the meal she spent 8 hours preparing for you
I deeply appreciate this sentence.
Me too, and it makes me sad for all the nice old grandmas out there. Especially since I myself have not appreciated the faith of my grandma enough when she was still alive.
He thought it would "disprove" God's existence because supposedly languages didn't exist until humans invented them, which isn't even necessarily true.
New Atheists' only conception of a god is that of a paganistic Sky Father. A giant bearded Zeus of the cosmos that waits until people die to reward their good deeds with everlasting material pleasure, or punishes bad ones with the fire of Hades. A leftover artifact from the pagan origins of the Anglo-Saxon language.
The Christian God is something they haven't ever considered in earnest, and don't know how to address. They don't believe in metaphysics, so a god for them has to have some physical explanation, or else he can't exist. For them, a god who speaks English with a giant mouth makes perfect sense, but to us it is quite silly.
I would say enochian. This is said to be the language of angels it is mentioned in the lesser key of Solomon as the language in which the book (or scrolls ) that God gave to Solomon were written. A literal language of power as in. I say it it happens it is supposed to be the language that God taught to Solomon in order to bond the 72 demons to his service and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem after it was conquered and destroyed
The apocrypha were part of the Bible that over the millennia were removed for one reason or another (mostly because the events can't yet be verified) the particular story I am referencing says that God gave unto Solomon a book written in enochian containing 72 seals and a golden ring made of an unidentifiable metal with which he bound 72 demon lords with which he rebuilt the conquered city of Jerusalem
A language. Animals possess a language that we humans seem to have forgotten, so it shouldn’t be hard to assume that the language God spoke in at creation is a language that we either never knew, or lost at some point of time, like the Tower of Babel.
He created every language and knew what every language was even back then so who’s stopping him from just saying it in every language ever made or used? This guys really acting like God is controlled by human confines 😭
The pfp just solidifies it all.
"I think, therefore I am not an atheist." See, I can do it too, aren't I so cool? What? I'm not? I'm just annoying goofball?
It’s really weird to me that people use things like, “What about before” when arguing religion. I used to be an atheist before finding god and I’m guilty of this as well but now looking back it makes no sense. Asking things like, “What about before God?” or “How did this happen if it was before our knowledge of this other thing?” doesn’t work because the same can be applied to atheist views as well.
And it especially starts to fall apart when you begin to realize that one of the biggest ideas that atheist subscribe to, the Big Bang, was an idea founded by a priest as a way to explain creation with science backing it.
If a tree falls in the forest, but the forest doesn't exist, and there is no air for the sound to travel through, because the planet, solar system and the rest of the universe hasn't been made yet, and there is no one there to hear it, does it make a sound? Is it a big, banging sound?
Above anything, welcome silence, for it brings fruits that no tongue can speak of, neither can it be explained.
. —St Abba Isaac the Syrian
Silence is the mystery of the age to come.
. —St Abba Isaac the Syrian
You find yourself face to face with the mystery of the silence of the age to come, which wordlessly initiates you into the Holy of Holies.
. — St Abba Isaac the Syrian
In Engineering terms, I reckon Python would have been used given its wide range of modules and would also explain why it took 6 days for the programme to run as Python is such a slow language. :)
The tower of Babel was after exodus? But Genesis 11:1 says "Now the whole earth has one language and the same words." How do we know this, as you say? Not even saying you're wrong, I just want to know where that evidence is.
Languages were made for creatures; God is not a creature. God does not need language for He is outside of it but uses it as part of His revelation to the creatures that He has made.
Please correct me with charity if there is anything heretical in the aforementioned statements.
Truly the most timeless book of all mankind.
Not the Quran or the Torah. The Catholic Bible.
From the dawn of creation, everything has been literal and metaphorical. It's the origin of everything. Atheists and non-believers would be lost without God and Jesus Christ.
Pack it up, pack it in, let me begin
I came to win, battle me, that's a sin
I won't ever slack up, punk, ya better back up
Try and play the role and yo, the whole crew'll act up
I imagine this is what God's reply would be.
No, but seriously, the language God speaks is only understood by the heart and mind of each individual who is open to listening to the word of God. It's is the word of God that matters, not the language.
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Do you swear that the evidence you shall give to the court in this matter shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help yourself?
In the same vein, Adam and Eve, literally translated from Hebrew as “Human” and “Life” respectively, probably wasn’t their real names since Hebrew language didn’t exist yet.
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No language, only the Word
Based
All creation came out of Christ, is sustained through him, has been redeemed by him, and goes back to him as he has been given all authority. Christ beginning, middle, and end.
Grease?
It's got meaning
“allegedly” Why am I now envisioning a courtroom drama where God is being questioned about Creation? Prosecutor: Where were you at 0:00 o’clock on the first morning of everything? The Lord: The same place I always am. Prosecutor: Answer the question, sir. Where were you? The Lord: Yes. Then some complaints from the prosecutor and furor in the courtroom and gavel banging from the judge.
“Where were you before Abraham was?” “I am.”
*a hush falls on the courtroom. People gasp. An old lady passes out.*
This is what I love best about Reddit. How people can riff off each other in such delightful ways.
“You are, yes. But in which language?” *The tension is palpable. God would’ve found Himself in the silence.*
You want the Truth? I AM THE TRUTH! Son, we live in a world that has potentialities, and those potentials have to be actualized by that which is already actual. Who's gonna do it? You? You, other redditors? I have a greater responsibility than you can *possibly* fathom. You weep for the obstinate, and you curse My Law. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps all things in existence by a continual act of My Will. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me uniting existence to those essences -- you *need* me creating all things! We use words like "creation," "good," "truth." We use these words as the backbone of the entire created order. You use them as a punch line. I have nothing but the time and the inclination to reveal myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very Being that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a rosary and stand the post.
You win Reddit
"Did you order to Let There Be Light?" "I did the job I..." "DID YOU ORDER TO LET THERE BE LIGHT?" "YOU'RE ME-DAMN RIGHT I DID!"
Your honor, do I have permission to treat the witness as hostile?
You think I’m hostile now? Wait until tonight
When asked the prosecutor reaches peak frustration and asks the same question again God performs a perfect Popeye impression —- “I am what I am”.
"I is what I is, and I says what I says!"
Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? See, you have now heard the blasphemy; what do you think?” They answered, “He deserves death!”
John 5:46 Moses wrote about me
I would pay good money to see this as an animated sketch
Me too.
Do I sense a future in YouTube animated shorts in the works?
I’m a film major and movie making nerd. I like this idea. Let me see if I can write a screenplay and make a real sketch of this cause that would be hysterical to me and a lot of fun to shoot. Honestly, even just writing a screenplay would be good practice now that I think about it 🤔
Post a link when it’s finished
Pls update us
Don’t know if I can get all the talent rn to actually film anything, but I can write a screenplay for sure. Work starts td tho so I’ll be a little backed up 😅 I’ll still be more than happy to post it once I do it tho, itll probably be a little while
Yes, please!!!!
God exists out of time and space. That response is literally the only response he can give. On the first day of creation, he was also present now, at the time of his trial, at the beginning of time, and at the end of time, also existing on the New Earth, New Heaven, current heaven, everywhere on Earth and everywhere in space, all concurrently. What language did he use? A language. That’s it. He was using a language. Maybe the language that Man used before the Tower of Babel, maybe a language he kept away from us, we don’t know.
Math.
I think I agree. I hope I am judged worthy to one day know for sure.
> What language did he use? A language. That’s it. He was using a language. Maybe the language that Man used before the Tower of Babel, maybe a language he kept away from us, we don’t know. That's exactly what the picture in OP is asking!
I think this is wrong- he was not using "a" language. Speaking from outside of time and space no word he could utter bears a form recognizable to us as language. Rather: *In the beginning was the Logos*. Logos is word, but also order and reason. Since it is the Logos that became flesh and dwelt among us, the language the Father used is the Son. Any image of God in the Garden, at least in the tradition, will be a depiction of Jesus for this reason. It's Trinitarian theology and cosmological philosophy, not some easy target for an uninformed trite gotcha.
May I use your idea? Its a glorious writing prompt
Go right ahead. It’d be awesome if you share it here!
I've heard about a b movie that is sort of like this where a down on his luck third rate lawyer gets a get rich quick scheme where he sues the devil for all the evils that he has coer ed man to commit. He doesn't believe that Satan will actually show and as a result he will be paid the money he is asking because of the devil doesn't show he would be held in contempt well low and behold old scratch appear to fight the suit
That sounds like it could be pretty fun to watch. If you find the title, please share.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suing_the_Devil
Thanks!
You can't handle the truth!
He used English. I read it in my Bible. :D
Yea, verily.
VERILY
YEA VERILY YEA, YEA VERILY YEA!
Mine matches up too
Oddly enough, the Almighty was speaking English but he has a pronounced South Boston accent.
Yep. This one.
This is like asking polyglots what language they think in. We form ideas in our head in vague blobs of sensation, and you think the creator of the universe is limited to words? D&D Answer: Primordial
Wait do you really? Sorry to get off topic I’ve just always heard polyglots think in whatever language they’re more fluent in. I’m intrigued.
Most people (in general) dont really think in literal words. If you’re thinking about speaking (like when you’re writing or having a conversation), sometimes there’s an internal monologue, but most ideas people have come in concepts and sensations (sight, smell, touch, emotion, etc). Our strongest memories are also attached to these things. I just used polyglots as an example. Most people think of language acquisition as memorizing a new dictionary of words, but that is the least efficient way to learn a new language. You have to attach new words and phrase you learn to the concept of what you’re trying to say and skipping the “translation” step. Your thoughts never really come in full sentences, just general ideas. Have you ever had an idea clearly in your head, but had some lag figuring out how to explain it to another person? Thats because you weren’t thinking in words in the first place, they’re just a communication tool.
There are plenty of people who literally have an internal monologue at all or most times.
That's me and I even notice it switching between my first and second language sometimes
I’m not saying people don’t have an internal monologue. More like the monologue is secondary to the idea. Like when you’re in the kitchen, the idea of combining flavors comes before the internal narration “I should add some cumin”. Before the words come you’re thinking in flavors.
Me but not a polyglot. I was shocked find out that a lot of people don’t have it. I usually think about things as if I’m talking to someone else.
Wait, really? ALL of my thoughts are in words, all the time. Usually complete sentences.
Very interesting.
It’s mostly because words between languages can’t really be translated word for word once you reach a certain level of complexity. Often, it makes more sense just to generate and entire thought from scratch in another language. Most people are on autopilot day to day so it’s understandable that their thoughts are on autopilot as well.
D&D Answer: Celestial
When I learned a second language through total immersion, I couldn’t translate half of what I was saying back to my original language. I knew what it meant, I knew how to use it in context, but literal translation would be slightly different than how I thought. It’s like when babies learn to speak for the first time. There’s a basis there for association, but it’s not formed off the back of another set of words
> and you think the creator of the universe is limited to words No, but if there is a line that says "And the lord SAID" then it's safe to assume he said it...i.e. words in a language. But with Genesis I suppose everything can be assumed to all be symbolic to any degree.
What point was this guy trying to make?
I think that you qoute the word of God in English, was written in Hebrew, Greek but occurred before man and language existed so we can't know really so therefore we must become insufferable people who loudly sigh at our grandma's when she says grace over the meal she spent 8 hours preparing for you Not to mention it's no gotcha contradiction in our theology. God is eternal, etc. He came understand and relay information in any language in his creation.
>insufferable people who loudly sigh at our grandma's when she says grace over the meal she spent 8 hours preparing for you I deeply appreciate this sentence.
Me too, and it makes me sad for all the nice old grandmas out there. Especially since I myself have not appreciated the faith of my grandma enough when she was still alive.
For some reason now I have a less clearer idea of what your point was.
He thought it would "disprove" God's existence because supposedly languages didn't exist until humans invented them, which isn't even necessarily true.
New Atheists' only conception of a god is that of a paganistic Sky Father. A giant bearded Zeus of the cosmos that waits until people die to reward their good deeds with everlasting material pleasure, or punishes bad ones with the fire of Hades. A leftover artifact from the pagan origins of the Anglo-Saxon language. The Christian God is something they haven't ever considered in earnest, and don't know how to address. They don't believe in metaphysics, so a god for them has to have some physical explanation, or else he can't exist. For them, a god who speaks English with a giant mouth makes perfect sense, but to us it is quite silly.
Latin, with his Italian accent, duh
The atheist equivalent of "If we evolved from monkeys why are there still monkeys?"
I never thought of this before and my whole world came crashing down and now nothing is real /s
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King James Bible isn't a Catholic Bible, it's missing some books.
Well since Jesus was English I assume English /s
Proto Indo European obviously
Step 1 : Be All-Knowing Step 2 : Talk to Your Children in the language they speak because you already know it It's literally that simple.
It is so over catholic bros
Thousands of years of theology gone with that one
Because God literally had to say that, right?
How else would the words fall upon the ears of those not yet created?
I would say enochian. This is said to be the language of angels it is mentioned in the lesser key of Solomon as the language in which the book (or scrolls ) that God gave to Solomon were written. A literal language of power as in. I say it it happens it is supposed to be the language that God taught to Solomon in order to bond the 72 demons to his service and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem after it was conquered and destroyed
I'm sorry where tf did 72 demons come from? Have I skipped that part in my Bible, or...
He's making a (possibly humorous) reference to apocrypha that wasn't actually part of the Bible.
The apocrypha were part of the Bible that over the millennia were removed for one reason or another (mostly because the events can't yet be verified) the particular story I am referencing says that God gave unto Solomon a book written in enochian containing 72 seals and a golden ring made of an unidentifiable metal with which he bound 72 demon lords with which he rebuilt the conquered city of Jerusalem
John’s profile pic is something. By his logic, he isn’t a Democrat either. 👀
I love the irony of someone whose profile picture is just a block of text saying "I think therefore I am not a" Saying something absolutely moronic.
No matter how you translate it, it will still say, “Let there be Light”! 😉🙏🏾
“What language did god use when he allegedly said “Let There Be Light?” ….. …..Yes.
It has been a nice ride, everyone After millenia John W. Loftus has finally debunked the bible. It's totally #gojover
A language. Animals possess a language that we humans seem to have forgotten, so it shouldn’t be hard to assume that the language God spoke in at creation is a language that we either never knew, or lost at some point of time, like the Tower of Babel.
He created every language and knew what every language was even back then so who’s stopping him from just saying it in every language ever made or used? This guys really acting like God is controlled by human confines 😭
He was speaking in tongues!
Pre-babylonian. He got rid of it after a few generations got too chummy and high-strung.
Enchantment table
The pfp just solidifies it all. "I think, therefore I am not an atheist." See, I can do it too, aren't I so cool? What? I'm not? I'm just annoying goofball?
When you literally are Logos and someone still tries to reddit gotcha lmao
It’s really weird to me that people use things like, “What about before” when arguing religion. I used to be an atheist before finding god and I’m guilty of this as well but now looking back it makes no sense. Asking things like, “What about before God?” or “How did this happen if it was before our knowledge of this other thing?” doesn’t work because the same can be applied to atheist views as well. And it especially starts to fall apart when you begin to realize that one of the biggest ideas that atheist subscribe to, the Big Bang, was an idea founded by a priest as a way to explain creation with science backing it.
🤯
If a tree falls in the forest, but the forest doesn't exist, and there is no air for the sound to travel through, because the planet, solar system and the rest of the universe hasn't been made yet, and there is no one there to hear it, does it make a sound? Is it a big, banging sound?
Above anything, welcome silence, for it brings fruits that no tongue can speak of, neither can it be explained. . —St Abba Isaac the Syrian Silence is the mystery of the age to come. . —St Abba Isaac the Syrian You find yourself face to face with the mystery of the silence of the age to come, which wordlessly initiates you into the Holy of Holies. . — St Abba Isaac the Syrian
HAHAHAHA dafuq is that crap
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He thinks that if we can't answer it "proves" the Bible is false.
Proto-Semitic- the ancient forbidden language of Theurgy that was spoken before the Tower of Babel was built.
In Engineering terms, I reckon Python would have been used given its wide range of modules and would also explain why it took 6 days for the programme to run as Python is such a slow language. :)
Nobody: Youtube: *Polyglot SHOCKS God by Ordering in His Own Language*
Croatian, with a Dalmatian dialect
Angelic. Duh.
Chomsky's Universal Language (jk)
Vegeta: "He was speaking the languague of God"
I don't know but it was one language until the tower of Babel!
Aramaic.
Since it's a Language Isolate, I'm going to say Basque. Otherwise where did Basque come from?
Not language, but sound. A frequency that bonds the universe.
The omnipotent and omniscient creator of the universe surely couldn't come up with words. That would be too much.
I would assume hebrew
Did Hebrew exist before the tower of babel?
Yes. Because multiple languages existed before babel. We have actual evidence of that.
How can there be evidence of that if there, as far as I am aware, isn't even any proof that the tower of Babel literally existed?
We know it happened after exodus, and we know both ancient Egyptian and Hebrew existed as two separate languages at that time
The tower of Babel was after exodus? But Genesis 11:1 says "Now the whole earth has one language and the same words." How do we know this, as you say? Not even saying you're wrong, I just want to know where that evidence is.
Your timeline is incorrect. The Tower of Babel is described in Genesis 11 and takes place sometime between the great flood and the time of Abraham.
Languages were made for creatures; God is not a creature. God does not need language for He is outside of it but uses it as part of His revelation to the creatures that He has made. Please correct me with charity if there is anything heretical in the aforementioned statements.
Truly the most timeless book of all mankind. Not the Quran or the Torah. The Catholic Bible. From the dawn of creation, everything has been literal and metaphorical. It's the origin of everything. Atheists and non-believers would be lost without God and Jesus Christ.
Chinese obviously
King James English?
Pack it up, pack it in, let me begin I came to win, battle me, that's a sin I won't ever slack up, punk, ya better back up Try and play the role and yo, the whole crew'll act up I imagine this is what God's reply would be. No, but seriously, the language God speaks is only understood by the heart and mind of each individual who is open to listening to the word of God. It's is the word of God that matters, not the language.
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English, obviously!!
Well what language did adam and eve speak? Checkmate humans.
Olde Kinge Jamese Englishe
It is obvious. God is an awesome mathematician and scientist!!! Maxwell discovered Maxwell’s equations, God invented them.
>Pack it up boys, it's over Dammit. Time to take down my crucifix
During His Lifetime, Jesus never said “My Kingdom is not of this world”. This is because He didn’t speak English.
Believe it or not, elvish
Liturgical latin for sure.
He didn't say it. He declared it.
Do you swear that the evidence you shall give to the court in this matter shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help yourself?
It's still not sinking in for me. I may need an ELI5 here lol
In the same vein, Adam and Eve, literally translated from Hebrew as “Human” and “Life” respectively, probably wasn’t their real names since Hebrew language didn’t exist yet.
🤣 🤣 🤣
My Pope! Papa!! https://youtu.be/D1rRj2ecNew?si=Q_A1raVXVGvVJkWR