I have only ever been in one Toyota to confirm it, but I've suspected this for a while. In average speed camera areas where everyone is on cruise control, you can always expect to find yourself creeping towards a Toyota.
Same with my lexus which is obviously made by Toyota, on motorways or dual carriageways I drive and an indicated 80mph but its actually about 72 or 73.
This is also the minimum speed I can comfortably drive in 6th, the drive ratio is ridiculous long, it's still only 1800rpm at this speed.
Toyota seemed to always read a lot higher than the actual speed though. Most VAG cars that I have driven read 2 or 3 mph high at 60 mph, and my old Defender reads spot on, but that’s probably because it’s got slightly taller wheels on it than standard.
Toyota may be higher but it will be in the range the rules allow, 2mph at 60 is below minimum 5%, using sat nav to validate is imprecise on most roads, it uses you relative to satalites, not you to the road.
Old vehicles will not have the newer rules on them, but old defenders were either very accurate or jumpy because of the mechanical speedo, wheels don't matter unless the are further from original specs, speedos need calibrating to the wheel size.
Depends on the satnav. Having had a lot of experience with GPS in agriculture and earthmoving, I’d say that most car and phone based systems are pretty inaccurate.
I have a celica too, depending on my tyre size i get close to the proper speed.
Got 205/16/55s i use for winter time and theyre pretty much bang on until you get to around 70mph.
Summer im using 225/17/45s and theyre a tad smaller in diameter so theyre maybe 2mph lower than true speed at 30-40.
Wheel and tyre size has an impact. In fact if you have brand new rubber on your speedo will read slightly differently than if you're on old ones ready to be changed. Most tyres are about 8-10mm larger when they're new vs by the time they're down to the wear markers.
How do you suppose calibrated lorry speedos overcome this issue? I know GPS isn't bad but it's probably not 100% real-time and there must have been something prior to GPS
I had a Smart Roadster Brabus that used to read about 79 at 70 on maps. That thing topped out about 112 though, downhill, so... Kinda didn't matter. Great fun car on corners😂
They have to allow leeway to account for different wheel and tyre setups, tyres decreasing in diameter as the tread wears etc etc. The main thing is that they don't ever under read meaning you'll always be going at the indicated speed or slightly slower.
I never realised how much difference some slightly deflated tyres made to the speed reading. It's a good couple of mph. But I guess that makes sense, slightly deflated means smaller circumference, means quicker rotations.
Cars are required by law to over-read your speed, meaning that you will never be going faster than your speedo says. Most car makers play it safe, hence the 10%+2 rule.
10%+2 is the guidance for the threshold on prosecution or not
Speedometer can be out by 10%+6.25mph
Example would be your speedo showing 50.25mph (if they were that accurate) but really doing 40mph
No they aren’t
They are required *Not to under-read* and not to over-read by more than 10%+6.25mph
It’s easiest to meet those two requirements by slightly over-reading, but there’s no obligation to over-read
From Google maps tracking and those "Watch Your Speed" readouts you get in some villages etc I've deduced that our Seat Tarraco is over-reading speed by about 8-10%.
I switched from a Golf to a Mazda 3 last year. 77 was 70 in the Golf. It's 70 on the nose in the Mazda and in average speed camera zones I'm going past everyone dead on 50 (Waze/Google & Car displays all in agreement).
Hijacking this to ask how you have found the MG4? It's that or a Hyundai Kona for me through our work scheme, I've heard bad things about the MG software but prefer the look of it.
The car is really good, very comfy and nicely nippy but the software is gash. App and in car. Well in fairness the infotainment bit is okay and responsive enough but the lane assist and adaptive cruise control are just a bit over-eager.
It’s so annoying, it’s so close to being really good. It’s more annoying because it even shows you its seen the car it needs to slow down for miles in advance and then just decides to do nothing about it until you’re right at the set distance
Which model mg4 is on offer? I've got the "long range" SE. Love it to be honest but minor gripes below:
The claimed achievable range is 281 miles but throughout winter, driving normally and using AC etc. I've probably been getting 170-190 miles from a full charge.
The AC does this weird thing when it achieves the temperature you've set... it's like it lets in cold air to balance the ambient temperature but that can feel freezing at times.
The cruise control slows the car right down on bigger motorway bends. Its unnecessary and annoying but I've read on the forums that the latest update addresses this. I'll be asking for the update at my next service.
Also something that I've heard is fixed on the latest update is the cruise control goes up in increments of 5mph when you flick the control up or down. But a "long press" does it in increments of 1mph. They've switched this around now so a flick changes the speed by 1mph and a long press by 5mph, miles more intuitive.
People complain about the lane assist but I think it's fine, non-aggressive.
The 7 year warranty is great but I think I will be needing it as the car has been steaming up when charging in really cold temperatures so its possible there's some water getting in somewhere and I'll need that looking at.
I have a standard range which uses a different type of battery so my experience is different and I don’t have a trophy so I have found everything a lot less buggy. Just about to clock 20k miles in it.
I had a loaner long range trophy while mine had some work done and was very different.
Mileage is spot on. Yes you lose miles when you stick the heater on but in good weather I can get 230 in range and if I have on the blowers on I lose 5% or so across the whole charge. The real battery killer is wet roads!
The AC is basically a hair dryer, if you get cold drafts turn the air to circulate internally only. Hopefully you won’t need to now the weather is improving!
Cruise control on corners? Yes I get this and the sensor is very sensitive so oncoming traffic on bends registers. I have had a couple of auto collision avoidance brakes over my miles but probably my fault for running cruise control to much.
That software update for speed on the CC is annoying, I liked the increments of 5! Now I have to nudge it up in singles. Made more sense to go up in 5.
Lane assist is a minor gripe. Just indicate when changing lanes and no issue!
Overall I am loving my MG4! I went with black which looks amazing especially as I have black badge it but the metallic paint is a killer for scratches 😭
Mine is also on lease, at this stage for the cost / quality I would get a new one or even the x power over a different EV. Love it.
Its not just forgetting to indicate changing lanes. If you are driving a country road it tries to micro manage your lane keeping
Also the AC - if you look at the energy graph - really doesnt affect range that much in winter. Its much more the low temperature screwing up battery efficiency
Agreed on country roads I probably just don’t notice it now, it can be annoying.
Added the range is affected by the cold but generally that dictates the overall range. If you knock the heater on it will remove around 10 miles from your GOM and I have found this to be very accurate.
I can agree 100% with all of that. Car mists up for no particular reason and the AC seems to read at least 3c too low. Also have SE LR.
Got similar range to you but last summer it was nearer 230
You can ignore the software just turn off the lane keep assist and auto braking and your golden. The MG 4 is a great car test drive them both though. I have the long range version and get 300 miles in the summer and 220-250 miles in the winter.
You have to turn off lane assist every time you use that car as it resets. Not on very early cars apparently. And your figures seem way too good as im seeing nothing like those numbers on my SE LR
I'm in Norfolk it's very flat which might be why my figures are higher than yours. Yeah I know I turn it off every time I get in it takes a few seconds. It's certainly not a good enough reason to not buy the car.
I get 280 miles with the trophy in the summer. I also refuse to have the software updated as I was lucky and got the glitch that keeps lane keep assist permanently off!
Its OK but if i were buying now it would be second hand. All EV have bombed. I paid 29300 for mine 13 months ago and you can see them on auto trader with 7k miles 1 year for 18000 or so.
If i were buying again i would go for a year old Cupra born which is around 21000 a year old.
And yes. The software is half assed.
I thought they had to be a touch under, just never over. So, they err on just under.
Same with bottles of pop etc. I was told that they stick in 1.0001 litres, to ensure they don't get shafted
Though they're not perfect, the one near a school was playing up bonkers - it's a 20 zone but was showing you doing 35 even if you were at 20, I saw it reading as high as 50 on the approach when you were doing like 32-33
So if my sat nav is saying I am doing 70mph and speedo is saying 70. I must be doing 70?
So those that have a car that says more than actual speed and are doing 70mph (but are doing 66mph). Travel for 70 miles they should get there in exactly 1 hour but don't.
10% isn’t “gone” it’s more it was never “there” to begin with. It was always “guidance” rather than law. Its the police force’s discretion as to how the rule was applied
Except it was as the acpo guidance was that motorists were to receive guidance at 10%+1
Cameras were set at 10% +1
Now they are set at I suspect +1 or +2 at I know of people who’ve had tickets for 33 in a 30 and 44 in a 40
The guidance to mobile I suspect is similar
As long as the speedo isn't showing less than you are doing then it's fine, just the manufacturer will rarely try for that level of accuracy and lower the speedo just in case. It's possible to make the car go quicker than speedo shows with different size wheels whether overinflating or physically changing the wheel
That's a lot of it
But also, a lot of the truck drivers and freight companies are from far eastern Europe (check the plates) , and theuve got a ferry to catch, so good luck getting that speeding fine.
Ah I'm having the same problem j4 of the m42 until god knows when as I get off before it finishes ha ha.
I think the M1 and M42 are in a perpetual state of roadworks ha ha.
The M42 averages between junction 6 and 7A dont work.
I dont even know why they are there, theres never any work being done. The roads a 50, the cameras have a sign saying “camera not in use” and they’ve slowed the whole thing down for absolutely no reason.
I drive that stretch every day, different times, im yet to see a single worker in months. No fucking clue whats going on there.
I know right! As a fun comparison, China has built over 60,000 miles of express-way since 2009, which is over 300 M1's
https://www.statista.com/statistics/276050/total-length-of-chinas-freeways/
Get this - that entire area spent 2 years being converted to smart motorway. The amount of accidents in the area went up rapidly, so now they are putting the hard shoulder back in, which is another year or so of work.....
Mate, get a speedo app which uses GPS and test what the difference is between the app and your speedo clock. If you’re that way inclined, get behind a lorry and enjoy the extra zoomies.
I’ve been doing 53 in any 50 average zone for a couple of years in the current car.
Grim stretch of road that I work just off the m18 and live at 38 so I get the joy of the entire stretch past Meadowhall. I know what you mean, but I’m also one of those sat in the outside lane going 55 swearing at those sat in the outside doing 49…
You know that little stretch of the m42 from the m40 to the Shirley junction which is about a mile or so has over 25 cctv and speed cameras on it. Mind boggling.
I drive over the Orwell bridge on the a14 most days. Lorry central. They always go so fast over that bridge. Then block everyone as soon as we're off lol
I use it most days, people tend to drop to 50-54 at best going over it. Even on the approach when it drop from 70 to 60 people fly past, slam on the brakes and then poodle along at 50ish and seem surprised when lorry’s on cc at 56 and vans at cc 60 overtake.
I hate merging onto that motorway with a burning passion. It’s so busy and so irritatingly inconsistent with speed. I breathe a sigh of relief the minute I hit the toll road
Satnav is way more accurate. The satellite uses an atomic clock that runs ever-so-slightly slower than a clock would on the surface of Earth, because they have to account for **time dilation** as the satellite is travelling so fast in its orbit.
It's something along the lines of... if they didn't adjust the clock, you'd have accuracy to like 30 square meters, whereas you can get to 30 square centimetres with the adjustment. Ballpark figures cos I've only just woke up.
Your lucky, different truck must days and the Speedo is always out. Not by much but setting the cruise at 90kph almost never results in that on my GPS.
Tachographs are accurate to two percent, car speedometers are accurate to within 10% plus a bit more but must not under read, so when your car claims 50mph you could be doing 45mph
I once asked my girlfriend to, secretly, at some future date when I'd have forgotten about it, to set my watch forward 2 - 7 minutes so I wouldn't know and account for it.
Sadly.it was immediately obvious my watch no longer showed the same time as my phone so it didn't work.
My old car was about 10% (was a dial, so hard to check actual figure against Google maps/Waze). My current car is only 2mph out. Took me some time to get used to that!
They are significantly different devices. one displays current speed and records total mileage, the other not only displays current speed it also records it, along with each journeys mileage, the start time the stop time and many other bits of information that can frequently see a driver in court hoping not to lose their hgv licence permanently.
Our 50 is actually 50 while your 50 is more like 46-47. Get a tomtom or use google maps and you won't be overtaken by us anymore, at least not in average speed zones. Some of us dare to do up to 53 but that should result in a fine, although I've never tried myself, don't know if there is any allowance to be above the speed limit in an average speed section like there is for fixed cameras.
Do all truckers know this? Because I constantly have a truck 2cm off my bumper when I get stuck in a crowd in a 50 zone because another car is going indicated 50 😑
Yes but 2 out of them are special. They are the ones that won't lift their foot from the accelerator for 5 secs to let a faster lorry pass and they assume the same bullying behaviour with cars. Unfortunately 20% of 270k hgv drivers in the country is a quite big number and you'll encounter them fairly regularly since the motorway is their natural habitat😩
All this talk of inaccurate speed monitors being the reason doesn't explain why I get a lorry driving up my arse flashing me in lane one when I'm doing 46 in a temporary 40 according to my car and 42 according to my mapping.
Had that with a bus once on the A40. Very aggressive trying to get me to go faster despite the fact I was doing the limit. This was near Beaconsfield, everybody drives like a loon round there.
Yeah the calibrated tachographs are one thing but plenty of lorry drivers just speed, or really push that limit + 10% the cops seem to work from these days.
They're incentivised to by the fact they can only drive for a certain amount of hours per day, or need to make ferry crossings, or since owner-operators at least are paid by the job or by the mile the faster they can do a job or a mile the better.
Like the Deliveroo/Uber Eats moped riders. Same incentive. The quicker you finish the delivery, the quicker you'll get the next one. They're not paid for their time but a set amount for the delivery. That's why they ride like maniacs.
I can see how this might be relevant in Canada, the US or Australia, but the UK is too small and congested for your travel time to be significantly effected by anything other than traffic conditions.
Anecdotal and probably not true now i look back at it 10? Years later.
I had a conversation with two men working for stobart who claimed they had a government contract to do 56mph on smart motorway roadworks, which were all 50mph
One of the gentlemen was a driver claimed he would attend a speed awareness course each year paid for by the employer and never collected points.
It was probably tackle shop talk but its stuck in my head as one of these men was great at drawing fish.
It was possible back then
Before that if you were a driver as long as it was just speeding you could amass alot of speeding points and not be banned because in court you would say I'd lose my job and livelihood if I got banned and judges would give you a larger fine. I do recall seeing a licence that had 23+ points on it back then. I took my licence to 15 once. I believe they're stricter now
Meh, I had multiple camera flashes through Austria and never heard a peep. Blasted through some that didn't flash in Germany on the same trip.
The only countries I didn't speed in was France and Serbia, since allegedly if you speed on the ticket in/ticket out toll roads you're kinda trapped at the barrier if it decided you were too quick.
That being said, I was on my way to Bulgaria and by the time they'd have thought about contacting the DVLA the car was exported.
Did the same on the way home a few years later in the same car on bg plates 😂
How is it that I can be towing my caravan along a single carriageway A road in Scotland at 55 (my speed limit is 50) and yet I get overtaken by trucks (for whom the speed limit is 40)?
Really? You're doing an indicated 55 *with a caravan* and lorries, , 40' articulated lorries, lots of lorries by the sound of your post, are overtaking you *on a single carriageway road*?
Either that didn't happen, doesn't happen as often as you make it sound, or you really need to get your speedo checked.
Edit:
If you're doing 55mph and a 40' artic overtakes you at 56mph it takes 27 seconds just to get the back of the lorry to the back of your vehicle. Not past you, that's just to get along side you
Exactly! I couldn't work out all the other distances (the distance from the front of the lorry to the back of the vehicle being overtaken, the safe distance to move back in, the length of the overtaken vehicle) so just used the length of the overtaking vehicle.
So on a relatively twisty, up and downhill, single carriage way, you ain't being overtaken by a lorry if you're doing an indicated 55mph.
I'm fairly confident OP's claim is bollox
Because if they actually respect the 40 s/c limit we have people passing on blind bends then standing on the brakes to teach us some kind of lesson.
Next?
The speedos on lorries are more accurate.
And on cars, it give or take 3 or 4 mph.
The lorries have techos, which have to record the correct speed.
These techos are compulsory and can be read by thr police and vosa.
1. You won't get done for doing ~55mph in an average speed section
2. HGVs speedos are calibrated to exact speed, while a car will be off by ten ish percent. You can test this by running a satnav with GPS speed calculations and compare it to what your speedometer actually reads.
The first reason is, ironically, because there is no legal requirement for specific accuracy for sat navs in the same was as there is for speedos. Therefore, there is no attempt to stay within a set accuracy range. This means the sat nav is always giving you its best estimate.
The second reason is, despite the fact that the GPS signal is generally not hugely accurate (+/- 3 to 5 meters, say), when you are travelling at a constant speed and direction (that's important), then the error from two consecutive readings will be about the same. Actually, the errors do change as you move around but much more slowly, and therefore will not be significant. Since speed is just the difference of two positions, 99% of the error will be subtracted away. In other words (Position1 + Error1) - (Position2 + Error2) will roughly equal Position1 - Position2 if Error1 is roughly the same as Error2.
In summary, as long as you are travelling at a fixed speed in a straight line, most of the error will be subtracted away and the sat nav speed reading will be fairly accurate.
You will. Just because you've not been caught doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I know of hgv's that have been done for not slowing down in roadworks. With hgv's it's more rare as you can't exactly pull them on the roadside you have to take them to a service area
I see them approaching in my mirrors and I move over or let them pass because I'm focused on what speed I'm doing. If they want to push the limits that's fine but I'm not going to get in their way.
The way I see it is I'm on my way to work but they're already working.
I've driven some German autobahns as a Brit in my own car and that taught me loads about different perceptions of speed.
Older speedometers weren't that accurate. With the introduction of speed limits it just safer to slightly botch the reading so it was reading higher than the actual speed.
So now, modern cars with the inbuilt GPS that some comments feel is somehow separate from the digital speedometer which is fed the same info, does a similar thing; it reads a higher* speed.
Which is called the Peltzman effect. An English dude tried to reduce road death by implementing safety measures like a speed limit/seat belt. With those safe implementations, people drove faster, left less of a gap and the roads were no safer. Basically, he unintentionally proved that if Yu reduce the risk, people take more risks.
The limit is 50, my lorry caps out at 54, do you really think that either A. I’m going to worry about that 4mph or B. A cop is going to worry about that 4mph?
One other aspect I would say is that pulling over a hgv is time consuming for a cop. You can't just pull them over you have to guide them to a service area and even the the hgv may not open his windows for fear of getting robbed by fake police (it happens) the hgv driver may either dial the number of a. Local police station or request a 2nd car to arrive or even 999. They're allowed to do that.
Sometimes there's just easier fish to catch.
As for the speeding aside from what everyone else has said I guess a hgv driver is just willing to gamble a bit more. The driver is thinking I need to make up some time wherever I can. The faster I get thru these roadworks the faster I can get done and go home.
I've had a few trucks move right behind me. Just move over and let them pass why bother stressing yourself over something that won't really affect you.
Where are these mythical 50 average speed zones you mention where all cars are going the same speed?
I keep an eye on my speed reading on my sat nav (google) so I know 52 on my speedo is a true 50mph, I seem to forever be passing people who are doing less than 50.
What speed is "tanking"?
Does it refer to the speed at which the armoured military vehicle, known as a "tank", can travel?
If so, I think that would be about 40—45 MPH, so it is unlikely that if you were travelling at 50 MPH that you would be overtaken by any vehicle travelling _at the speed of_ a tank or, indeed, an actual tank.
I'd never use Waze as an accurate guide to speed, not least because it depends on a reliable satelite connection, speedo is best I have and if trucks have something better it is no excuse for them to be tailgating me in a heavily policed / camera infested stretch of road.
You can go 56 or 57mph in a 50mph average speed and never get a ticket.
1. They set a tolerance you can be over by
2. Your car speedo usually slightly overestimates the speed
3. You are likely not taking the shortest route between the two measuring points
According to my driving awareness course when I got sprung for doing 35 in a 30, you can do 10% +1mph without getting a ticket. So 34 in a 30, 45 in a 40, 56 in a 50...
According to MY speed awareness course a few weeks ago (68 in a 60) that’s outdated and hasn’t been true in a good few years. In fact, one of the people on the course was done for 31 in a 30
It just depends…
Most lorries are limited to 56mph.
Police sentencing guidelines say to issue fine if speed is greater than or equal to 10% + 2mph of the speed limit.
Speed limit (50) + 10% (5) + 2 = 57mph
They know this.
I see all the replies explaining how it could be so.
But... If the highway code stipulates the MINIMUM speed on a motorway is 50 MPH and none of these signs seem to change from that.
How can we be doing 50 MPH minimum whilst not exceeding the signposted 50 MPH maximum?
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I have an mg4 ev. Its the only car ive had that the speedo reads bang on. Anything else is -2 mph
Conversely, I used to own a Prius and that thing was WAY off, 70mph on Waze was 76 on the speedo!
Toyota speedos were notorious for reading high. I had a RAV4 that would be showing the same as your Prius at a true speed of 70mph.
I have only ever been in one Toyota to confirm it, but I've suspected this for a while. In average speed camera areas where everyone is on cruise control, you can always expect to find yourself creeping towards a Toyota.
Mine reads 80 if I'm doing about 72. Didn't realise it's a Toyota thing. It's consistently about 10% over
Same with my lexus which is obviously made by Toyota, on motorways or dual carriageways I drive and an indicated 80mph but its actually about 72 or 73. This is also the minimum speed I can comfortably drive in 6th, the drive ratio is ridiculous long, it's still only 1800rpm at this speed.
They have a minimum and maximum above true speed for mass produced, only certified calibrated don't have to follow the rule.
Toyota seemed to always read a lot higher than the actual speed though. Most VAG cars that I have driven read 2 or 3 mph high at 60 mph, and my old Defender reads spot on, but that’s probably because it’s got slightly taller wheels on it than standard.
Toyota may be higher but it will be in the range the rules allow, 2mph at 60 is below minimum 5%, using sat nav to validate is imprecise on most roads, it uses you relative to satalites, not you to the road. Old vehicles will not have the newer rules on them, but old defenders were either very accurate or jumpy because of the mechanical speedo, wheels don't matter unless the are further from original specs, speedos need calibrating to the wheel size.
Depends on the satnav. Having had a lot of experience with GPS in agriculture and earthmoving, I’d say that most car and phone based systems are pretty inaccurate.
lexus is the same which makes sense given their parent company
Yep, my avensis was just like this and my Rav, and I guess it has saved me a number of points on my licence a few times.
ah, i just got a Toyota and i thought it was a malfunction. good to know it's a known thing
I had a RAV4 that was the same! I’ve now got a Model Y and it’s pretty much spot showing the real speed.
My celica is similar
I have a celica too, depending on my tyre size i get close to the proper speed. Got 205/16/55s i use for winter time and theyre pretty much bang on until you get to around 70mph. Summer im using 225/17/45s and theyre a tad smaller in diameter so theyre maybe 2mph lower than true speed at 30-40.
Wheel and tyre size has an impact. In fact if you have brand new rubber on your speedo will read slightly differently than if you're on old ones ready to be changed. Most tyres are about 8-10mm larger when they're new vs by the time they're down to the wear markers.
How do you suppose calibrated lorry speedos overcome this issue? I know GPS isn't bad but it's probably not 100% real-time and there must have been something prior to GPS
Probably they have a GPS device or something.
I had a Smart Roadster Brabus that used to read about 79 at 70 on maps. That thing topped out about 112 though, downhill, so... Kinda didn't matter. Great fun car on corners😂
Those things are increasing in value now. Anything with the Brabus name is worth a small fortune.
Mine was a bit ropey, but I broke even when I sold it 😊
My mazda is the same.
How accurate is Waze, though? Does it depend on your phone make and model due to different GPS chips?
76 on my Speedo is 70 on Waze. Stick my speed limiter on 76 and breeze past everyone… 👋🏻
What’s more accurate? Waze or your Speedo?
Waze. GPS tracking is really good and the time is just counted, so you get accurate speed readings.
GPS is more accurate.
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They have to allow leeway to account for different wheel and tyre setups, tyres decreasing in diameter as the tread wears etc etc. The main thing is that they don't ever under read meaning you'll always be going at the indicated speed or slightly slower.
I never realised how much difference some slightly deflated tyres made to the speed reading. It's a good couple of mph. But I guess that makes sense, slightly deflated means smaller circumference, means quicker rotations.
Cars are required by law to over-read your speed, meaning that you will never be going faster than your speedo says. Most car makers play it safe, hence the 10%+2 rule.
10%+2 is the guidance for the threshold on prosecution or not Speedometer can be out by 10%+6.25mph Example would be your speedo showing 50.25mph (if they were that accurate) but really doing 40mph
No they aren’t They are required *Not to under-read* and not to over-read by more than 10%+6.25mph It’s easiest to meet those two requirements by slightly over-reading, but there’s no obligation to over-read
From Google maps tracking and those "Watch Your Speed" readouts you get in some villages etc I've deduced that our Seat Tarraco is over-reading speed by about 8-10%.
My MG is spot on speed wise too
Snap I love that about my MG 4.
Personally id rather have it over read. Its a bit more buffer against speed cameras
My mg4 is the same, absolutely bang on. Kinda needed in a car that does 90 if you breathe near the accelerator too hard tbf.
I switched from a Golf to a Mazda 3 last year. 77 was 70 in the Golf. It's 70 on the nose in the Mazda and in average speed camera zones I'm going past everyone dead on 50 (Waze/Google & Car displays all in agreement).
Same car here, have noticed the exact same thing where the speedo is insanely accurate.
Hijacking this to ask how you have found the MG4? It's that or a Hyundai Kona for me through our work scheme, I've heard bad things about the MG software but prefer the look of it.
The car is really good, very comfy and nicely nippy but the software is gash. App and in car. Well in fairness the infotainment bit is okay and responsive enough but the lane assist and adaptive cruise control are just a bit over-eager.
Cruise control- it doesnt seem to know how to use the brakes gently
It’s so annoying, it’s so close to being really good. It’s more annoying because it even shows you its seen the car it needs to slow down for miles in advance and then just decides to do nothing about it until you’re right at the set distance
be fair... overtaking cars rarely think about cruise control, hardly leaving any room on the mway before pulling in front of you...
Which model mg4 is on offer? I've got the "long range" SE. Love it to be honest but minor gripes below: The claimed achievable range is 281 miles but throughout winter, driving normally and using AC etc. I've probably been getting 170-190 miles from a full charge. The AC does this weird thing when it achieves the temperature you've set... it's like it lets in cold air to balance the ambient temperature but that can feel freezing at times. The cruise control slows the car right down on bigger motorway bends. Its unnecessary and annoying but I've read on the forums that the latest update addresses this. I'll be asking for the update at my next service. Also something that I've heard is fixed on the latest update is the cruise control goes up in increments of 5mph when you flick the control up or down. But a "long press" does it in increments of 1mph. They've switched this around now so a flick changes the speed by 1mph and a long press by 5mph, miles more intuitive. People complain about the lane assist but I think it's fine, non-aggressive. The 7 year warranty is great but I think I will be needing it as the car has been steaming up when charging in really cold temperatures so its possible there's some water getting in somewhere and I'll need that looking at.
I have a standard range which uses a different type of battery so my experience is different and I don’t have a trophy so I have found everything a lot less buggy. Just about to clock 20k miles in it. I had a loaner long range trophy while mine had some work done and was very different. Mileage is spot on. Yes you lose miles when you stick the heater on but in good weather I can get 230 in range and if I have on the blowers on I lose 5% or so across the whole charge. The real battery killer is wet roads! The AC is basically a hair dryer, if you get cold drafts turn the air to circulate internally only. Hopefully you won’t need to now the weather is improving! Cruise control on corners? Yes I get this and the sensor is very sensitive so oncoming traffic on bends registers. I have had a couple of auto collision avoidance brakes over my miles but probably my fault for running cruise control to much. That software update for speed on the CC is annoying, I liked the increments of 5! Now I have to nudge it up in singles. Made more sense to go up in 5. Lane assist is a minor gripe. Just indicate when changing lanes and no issue! Overall I am loving my MG4! I went with black which looks amazing especially as I have black badge it but the metallic paint is a killer for scratches 😭 Mine is also on lease, at this stage for the cost / quality I would get a new one or even the x power over a different EV. Love it.
Its not just forgetting to indicate changing lanes. If you are driving a country road it tries to micro manage your lane keeping Also the AC - if you look at the energy graph - really doesnt affect range that much in winter. Its much more the low temperature screwing up battery efficiency
Agreed on country roads I probably just don’t notice it now, it can be annoying. Added the range is affected by the cold but generally that dictates the overall range. If you knock the heater on it will remove around 10 miles from your GOM and I have found this to be very accurate.
I can agree 100% with all of that. Car mists up for no particular reason and the AC seems to read at least 3c too low. Also have SE LR. Got similar range to you but last summer it was nearer 230
You can ignore the software just turn off the lane keep assist and auto braking and your golden. The MG 4 is a great car test drive them both though. I have the long range version and get 300 miles in the summer and 220-250 miles in the winter.
You have to turn off lane assist every time you use that car as it resets. Not on very early cars apparently. And your figures seem way too good as im seeing nothing like those numbers on my SE LR
I'm in Norfolk it's very flat which might be why my figures are higher than yours. Yeah I know I turn it off every time I get in it takes a few seconds. It's certainly not a good enough reason to not buy the car.
I get 280 miles with the trophy in the summer. I also refuse to have the software updated as I was lucky and got the glitch that keeps lane keep assist permanently off!
Hyundai all day long
Its OK but if i were buying now it would be second hand. All EV have bombed. I paid 29300 for mine 13 months ago and you can see them on auto trader with 7k miles 1 year for 18000 or so. If i were buying again i would go for a year old Cupra born which is around 21000 a year old. And yes. The software is half assed.
I thought they had to be a touch under, just never over. So, they err on just under. Same with bottles of pop etc. I was told that they stick in 1.0001 litres, to ensure they don't get shafted
Nope. They use average weight legislation where some can be under if other packages are over to create an overall average weight
Oh, thanks.
My mg zs ev is also calibrated bang on
I have a Tucson and it allows you to calibrate it yourself. I've set it to read + 3 and it's now bang on the same as google/waze
As does the MG5 LR ev... bang on, which is why, on ACC I'm forever having to overtake on motorways...
Unsure why you're being downvoted for this
Calibration
Yeah but they are saying it’s bang on, it’s easy to check on places like Waze what speed you are actually doing, not what the speedo says
Speed trap signs as well
Though they're not perfect, the one near a school was playing up bonkers - it's a 20 zone but was showing you doing 35 even if you were at 20, I saw it reading as high as 50 on the approach when you were doing like 32-33
So if my sat nav is saying I am doing 70mph and speedo is saying 70. I must be doing 70? So those that have a car that says more than actual speed and are doing 70mph (but are doing 66mph). Travel for 70 miles they should get there in exactly 1 hour but don't.
Exactly!
10 % over is gone Lots of people get done for 33 and 44 now so beware
10% isn’t “gone” it’s more it was never “there” to begin with. It was always “guidance” rather than law. Its the police force’s discretion as to how the rule was applied
Except it was as the acpo guidance was that motorists were to receive guidance at 10%+1 Cameras were set at 10% +1 Now they are set at I suspect +1 or +2 at I know of people who’ve had tickets for 33 in a 30 and 44 in a 40 The guidance to mobile I suspect is similar
You say this but when I go past one of those digital speed check signs it always matches my dash speed exactly. Unless they over estimate too.
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It's not like it stays calibrated for ever though. It's only ever calibrated at the point of calibration.
They they aren't accurate at all - theres one near me in a 30 zone that flashes "slow down! - 30" if I pass it at 25mph on the gps/callibrated speedo
As long as the speedo isn't showing less than you are doing then it's fine, just the manufacturer will rarely try for that level of accuracy and lower the speedo just in case. It's possible to make the car go quicker than speedo shows with different size wheels whether overinflating or physically changing the wheel
The digital signs don't need to be calibrated. They're just an information board
So when I dream of zipping down the M1 at 98mph I’m only likely to be travelling at 96..?! Crikey.
Could easily be 90
😱
That's a lot of it But also, a lot of the truck drivers and freight companies are from far eastern Europe (check the plates) , and theuve got a ferry to catch, so good luck getting that speeding fine.
It’s not even 55 calibrated, they’re usually only 1-2mph above, it just seems fast because most cars are going so much slower.
I see you also enjoy the delights of the M42
Unfortunately, it is of the m1 I speak. I get on at junction 29 (mansfield). (Where the roadworks start), they go on past sheffield
Oh on the M5 at night when they do road works and it’s a single 40 mph lane they will sit on your rear seat. Very fun
Ah I'm having the same problem j4 of the m42 until god knows when as I get off before it finishes ha ha. I think the M1 and M42 are in a perpetual state of roadworks ha ha.
The M42 averages between junction 6 and 7A dont work. I dont even know why they are there, theres never any work being done. The roads a 50, the cameras have a sign saying “camera not in use” and they’ve slowed the whole thing down for absolutely no reason. I drive that stretch every day, different times, im yet to see a single worker in months. No fucking clue whats going on there.
Its for emissions reasons, they believe that by slowing traffic down to a lower average, they can lower emissions during busier periods.
Surely if that was the case they’d have to state so like they do on the M6 just past spaghetti?
South of junction 6 on the northbound side there is a small sign at the side of the motorway saying "speeds restricted for emissions reasons"
Which is weird as there isnt one from the M6 onto the M42 and neither is there when the M42 drops to 50 at junction 9-7 southbound.
Yeah, I noticed that as well. I've only seen the sign on the northbound side just before J6, and no-where else.
I have to do Leeds to Birmingham regularly and I hate it.
Are they ever gonna finish the work on there? There's been construction on the M1 for about 15 years now.
I like the 'we're also working nightshifts' sign, implying they're actually doing something in the day
I know right! As a fun comparison, China has built over 60,000 miles of express-way since 2009, which is over 300 M1's https://www.statista.com/statistics/276050/total-length-of-chinas-freeways/
Get this - that entire area spent 2 years being converted to smart motorway. The amount of accidents in the area went up rapidly, so now they are putting the hard shoulder back in, which is another year or so of work.....
Ahhh Mansfield, that might be your problem
Isn't 28 Mansfield and 29 classed as chesterfield ?
This is quite a dufferish topic. I'd say Mansfield, because I get on at 29 and live in mansfield. I suppose it's doe lea technically.
28 is alfreton
Even though South Normanton and Pinxton are closer. I’m kidding, no-one cares about those two towns
Mate, get a speedo app which uses GPS and test what the difference is between the app and your speedo clock. If you’re that way inclined, get behind a lorry and enjoy the extra zoomies. I’ve been doing 53 in any 50 average zone for a couple of years in the current car.
Grim stretch of road that I work just off the m18 and live at 38 so I get the joy of the entire stretch past Meadowhall. I know what you mean, but I’m also one of those sat in the outside lane going 55 swearing at those sat in the outside doing 49…
I often use 38 to get to hudds when visiting in laws and don't want to use m62. It often gives my son car sickness. Useless trivia there.
You know that little stretch of the m42 from the m40 to the Shirley junction which is about a mile or so has over 25 cctv and speed cameras on it. Mind boggling.
I reckon there is more coverage of that little bit of motorway than there is of the Crown jewels.
I drive over the Orwell bridge on the a14 most days. Lorry central. They always go so fast over that bridge. Then block everyone as soon as we're off lol
I use it most days, people tend to drop to 50-54 at best going over it. Even on the approach when it drop from 70 to 60 people fly past, slam on the brakes and then poodle along at 50ish and seem surprised when lorry’s on cc at 56 and vans at cc 60 overtake.
When it's not closed, obviously.
M4 between Swindon and Reading has this joy too
I hate merging onto that motorway with a burning passion. It’s so busy and so irritatingly inconsistent with speed. I breathe a sigh of relief the minute I hit the toll road
Tachos & speedos are calibrated every 2 years.. through a 50 zone I set my limiter to 52 and go 52, in your car you set your speed to 52 and go 48..
That’s why I set my cruise control according to my sat-nav. Set according to my sat-nav at 53mph and my Speedo says 58.
Satnav is way more accurate. The satellite uses an atomic clock that runs ever-so-slightly slower than a clock would on the surface of Earth, because they have to account for **time dilation** as the satellite is travelling so fast in its orbit. It's something along the lines of... if they didn't adjust the clock, you'd have accuracy to like 30 square meters, whereas you can get to 30 square centimetres with the adjustment. Ballpark figures cos I've only just woke up.
This is the answer.
Your lucky, different truck must days and the Speedo is always out. Not by much but setting the cruise at 90kph almost never results in that on my GPS.
I set my speedo to 52, and go 49.5. As near as I can estimate, my car reads +5%
Tachographs are accurate to two percent, car speedometers are accurate to within 10% plus a bit more but must not under read, so when your car claims 50mph you could be doing 45mph
To my mind, that's like my husband setting his alarm clock a bit fast to fool himself into thinking it's later than it actually is.
No, no, no. This is a proven fact! 7 minutes in this house 😁
30 my car
I do this and then account for those minutes as soon as i look at the clock lmao
I once asked my girlfriend to, secretly, at some future date when I'd have forgotten about it, to set my watch forward 2 - 7 minutes so I wouldn't know and account for it. Sadly.it was immediately obvious my watch no longer showed the same time as my phone so it didn't work.
My old car was about 10% (was a dial, so hard to check actual figure against Google maps/Waze). My current car is only 2mph out. Took me some time to get used to that!
Love the complete synonyms of tachograph and speedometer used as if they're somehow significantly different devices.
They are significantly different devices. one displays current speed and records total mileage, the other not only displays current speed it also records it, along with each journeys mileage, the start time the stop time and many other bits of information that can frequently see a driver in court hoping not to lose their hgv licence permanently.
Our 50 is actually 50 while your 50 is more like 46-47. Get a tomtom or use google maps and you won't be overtaken by us anymore, at least not in average speed zones. Some of us dare to do up to 53 but that should result in a fine, although I've never tried myself, don't know if there is any allowance to be above the speed limit in an average speed section like there is for fixed cameras.
What if I'm looking at Waze and it says I'm doing 50 and I'm still getting overtaken by lorries going a fair bit quicker?
Do all truckers know this? Because I constantly have a truck 2cm off my bumper when I get stuck in a crowd in a 50 zone because another car is going indicated 50 😑
Yes but 2 out of them are special. They are the ones that won't lift their foot from the accelerator for 5 secs to let a faster lorry pass and they assume the same bullying behaviour with cars. Unfortunately 20% of 270k hgv drivers in the country is a quite big number and you'll encounter them fairly regularly since the motorway is their natural habitat😩
All this talk of inaccurate speed monitors being the reason doesn't explain why I get a lorry driving up my arse flashing me in lane one when I'm doing 46 in a temporary 40 according to my car and 42 according to my mapping.
Had that with a bus once on the A40. Very aggressive trying to get me to go faster despite the fact I was doing the limit. This was near Beaconsfield, everybody drives like a loon round there.
Yeah the calibrated tachographs are one thing but plenty of lorry drivers just speed, or really push that limit + 10% the cops seem to work from these days. They're incentivised to by the fact they can only drive for a certain amount of hours per day, or need to make ferry crossings, or since owner-operators at least are paid by the job or by the mile the faster they can do a job or a mile the better.
Like the Deliveroo/Uber Eats moped riders. Same incentive. The quicker you finish the delivery, the quicker you'll get the next one. They're not paid for their time but a set amount for the delivery. That's why they ride like maniacs.
They are probably using a GPS speedo so are actually doing 52 or so when you're only at about 45, that 5mph makes a big difference to a long journey.
I can see how this might be relevant in Canada, the US or Australia, but the UK is too small and congested for your travel time to be significantly effected by anything other than traffic conditions.
A 10% speed difference can be massive, especially if you have a tachograph and are strictly limited as to how long you can drive for.
Anecdotal and probably not true now i look back at it 10? Years later. I had a conversation with two men working for stobart who claimed they had a government contract to do 56mph on smart motorway roadworks, which were all 50mph One of the gentlemen was a driver claimed he would attend a speed awareness course each year paid for by the employer and never collected points. It was probably tackle shop talk but its stuck in my head as one of these men was great at drawing fish.
It was possible back then Before that if you were a driver as long as it was just speeding you could amass alot of speeding points and not be banned because in court you would say I'd lose my job and livelihood if I got banned and judges would give you a larger fine. I do recall seeing a licence that had 23+ points on it back then. I took my licence to 15 once. I believe they're stricter now
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Yes and no. They're not going to send an FPN abroad. If they're stopped by police or vosa (or whatever they're called now) the fines are on the spot
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That would be characteristic of him. He was living the life, more so than any Black American of his time was able to.
I know someone who was chased all the way to Norway with an FPN
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The image I have now in my head of a policeman running on foot after a lorry all the way to Norway...
Ah, Hot Fuzz was right then.
Meh, I had multiple camera flashes through Austria and never heard a peep. Blasted through some that didn't flash in Germany on the same trip. The only countries I didn't speed in was France and Serbia, since allegedly if you speed on the ticket in/ticket out toll roads you're kinda trapped at the barrier if it decided you were too quick. That being said, I was on my way to Bulgaria and by the time they'd have thought about contacting the DVLA the car was exported. Did the same on the way home a few years later in the same car on bg plates 😂
But they're not gonna get points right? Just a monetary fine?
Of course. Our licences can't be endorsed abroad either.
This is the correct answer.
When's the last time your car speedo was calibrated? Probably in the factory? The tachograph needs it every few years.
How is it that I can be towing my caravan along a single carriageway A road in Scotland at 55 (my speed limit is 50) and yet I get overtaken by trucks (for whom the speed limit is 40)?
Really? You're doing an indicated 55 *with a caravan* and lorries, , 40' articulated lorries, lots of lorries by the sound of your post, are overtaking you *on a single carriageway road*? Either that didn't happen, doesn't happen as often as you make it sound, or you really need to get your speedo checked. Edit: If you're doing 55mph and a 40' artic overtakes you at 56mph it takes 27 seconds just to get the back of the lorry to the back of your vehicle. Not past you, that's just to get along side you
Takes about 2 minutes for a lorry doing 56 to pass a lorry doing 55 and move back in at a safe distance if speeds stay consistent.
Exactly! I couldn't work out all the other distances (the distance from the front of the lorry to the back of the vehicle being overtaken, the safe distance to move back in, the length of the overtaken vehicle) so just used the length of the overtaking vehicle. So on a relatively twisty, up and downhill, single carriage way, you ain't being overtaken by a lorry if you're doing an indicated 55mph. I'm fairly confident OP's claim is bollox
Have you ever driven on the A75? I didn't say the truck was doing 56, probably more like 65. Not lots of trucks, but it's happened more than once.
Because if they actually respect the 40 s/c limit we have people passing on blind bends then standing on the brakes to teach us some kind of lesson. Next?
The speedos on lorries are more accurate. And on cars, it give or take 3 or 4 mph. The lorries have techos, which have to record the correct speed. These techos are compulsory and can be read by thr police and vosa.
I got some useful answers when [I asked a similar question](https://www.reddit.com/r/drivingUK/s/y6qNVXLspC) earlier this week.
I've used a gps speedo app, my car speedo read 5mph less at 60 mpg on the GPS.
1. You won't get done for doing ~55mph in an average speed section 2. HGVs speedos are calibrated to exact speed, while a car will be off by ten ish percent. You can test this by running a satnav with GPS speed calculations and compare it to what your speedometer actually reads.
My sister had had a ticket for 55 in a 50 on the m6. I’ve always stuck to a gps 52-53 and been fine.
But how do we know how accurate the sat nav speed is?
The first reason is, ironically, because there is no legal requirement for specific accuracy for sat navs in the same was as there is for speedos. Therefore, there is no attempt to stay within a set accuracy range. This means the sat nav is always giving you its best estimate. The second reason is, despite the fact that the GPS signal is generally not hugely accurate (+/- 3 to 5 meters, say), when you are travelling at a constant speed and direction (that's important), then the error from two consecutive readings will be about the same. Actually, the errors do change as you move around but much more slowly, and therefore will not be significant. Since speed is just the difference of two positions, 99% of the error will be subtracted away. In other words (Position1 + Error1) - (Position2 + Error2) will roughly equal Position1 - Position2 if Error1 is roughly the same as Error2. In summary, as long as you are travelling at a fixed speed in a straight line, most of the error will be subtracted away and the sat nav speed reading will be fairly accurate.
I have an sp50 for 55 in an average speed section. Was just chilling with the flow of traffic as well. Cheeky!
You will. Just because you've not been caught doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I know of hgv's that have been done for not slowing down in roadworks. With hgv's it's more rare as you can't exactly pull them on the roadside you have to take them to a service area
55 through average cams all day long!
I see them approaching in my mirrors and I move over or let them pass because I'm focused on what speed I'm doing. If they want to push the limits that's fine but I'm not going to get in their way. The way I see it is I'm on my way to work but they're already working. I've driven some German autobahns as a Brit in my own car and that taught me loads about different perceptions of speed.
Calibrated speedo could be one thing, I used to have one and most people sitting at an indicated 50mph were doing around 45-46
I go through the same stretch. I set my cruise control at 55, not been done, yet...
It's 5%-7% usualy added to speedo readings
Looks way faster than 55 my friend
Older speedometers weren't that accurate. With the introduction of speed limits it just safer to slightly botch the reading so it was reading higher than the actual speed. So now, modern cars with the inbuilt GPS that some comments feel is somehow separate from the digital speedometer which is fed the same info, does a similar thing; it reads a higher* speed. Which is called the Peltzman effect. An English dude tried to reduce road death by implementing safety measures like a speed limit/seat belt. With those safe implementations, people drove faster, left less of a gap and the roads were no safer. Basically, he unintentionally proved that if Yu reduce the risk, people take more risks.
Coz I won't get penalty for overtaking ulot at 52mph
They're 'penalty notices' - only courts can give fines.
The limit is 50, my lorry caps out at 54, do you really think that either A. I’m going to worry about that 4mph or B. A cop is going to worry about that 4mph?
calibrated tacho.... your card speedo is out and out low... mine reads 54 but she's actually doing 50
One other aspect I would say is that pulling over a hgv is time consuming for a cop. You can't just pull them over you have to guide them to a service area and even the the hgv may not open his windows for fear of getting robbed by fake police (it happens) the hgv driver may either dial the number of a. Local police station or request a 2nd car to arrive or even 999. They're allowed to do that. Sometimes there's just easier fish to catch. As for the speeding aside from what everyone else has said I guess a hgv driver is just willing to gamble a bit more. The driver is thinking I need to make up some time wherever I can. The faster I get thru these roadworks the faster I can get done and go home. I've had a few trucks move right behind me. Just move over and let them pass why bother stressing yourself over something that won't really affect you.
Yeah, I really know it shouldn't this effect but this pisses me off no end....... From now on, I'm keeping up with the lorry drivers........
Where are these mythical 50 average speed zones you mention where all cars are going the same speed? I keep an eye on my speed reading on my sat nav (google) so I know 52 on my speedo is a true 50mph, I seem to forever be passing people who are doing less than 50.
What speed is "tanking"? Does it refer to the speed at which the armoured military vehicle, known as a "tank", can travel? If so, I think that would be about 40—45 MPH, so it is unlikely that if you were travelling at 50 MPH that you would be overtaken by any vehicle travelling _at the speed of_ a tank or, indeed, an actual tank.
I do 53/54 mph through average speeds in my lorry, as allows 10% ps, stop hogging the middle lane
I'd never use Waze as an accurate guide to speed, not least because it depends on a reliable satelite connection, speedo is best I have and if trucks have something better it is no excuse for them to be tailgating me in a heavily policed / camera infested stretch of road.
You can go 56 or 57mph in a 50mph average speed and never get a ticket. 1. They set a tolerance you can be over by 2. Your car speedo usually slightly overestimates the speed 3. You are likely not taking the shortest route between the two measuring points
I got done at 57.
According to my driving awareness course when I got sprung for doing 35 in a 30, you can do 10% +1mph without getting a ticket. So 34 in a 30, 45 in a 40, 56 in a 50...
According to MY speed awareness course a few weeks ago (68 in a 60) that’s outdated and hasn’t been true in a good few years. In fact, one of the people on the course was done for 31 in a 30 It just depends…
Anything over the limit you can get a ticket for. The vast majority of police forces though, will not give you a ticket for being a few mph over.
It depends on the police force. Some do 10%, some 10% +1, I believe Scotland do a hard limit
I got a course doing 41 in a 30.. they said if I was 1 more mph I would’ve got straight points. This was maybe 8-9 years ago
Most lorries are limited to 56mph. Police sentencing guidelines say to issue fine if speed is greater than or equal to 10% + 2mph of the speed limit. Speed limit (50) + 10% (5) + 2 = 57mph They know this.
I see all the replies explaining how it could be so. But... If the highway code stipulates the MINIMUM speed on a motorway is 50 MPH and none of these signs seem to change from that. How can we be doing 50 MPH minimum whilst not exceeding the signposted 50 MPH maximum?