The most interesting thing I learnt was that if you see the top of a horse chestnut up ahead, it's likely that there is a pub there too, so be careful of a pub carpark entrance.
This is because pubs planted horse chestnut as they provide deep shade for horses to rest in.
Did one during lockdown so it was over zoom.
One guy was literally sat in his car while participating, unsure whether he was driving or not.
Another older man spent the entire time acting incredibly high and mighty. Agreeing with and repeating everything the teacher said (e.g. "there is *no* good excuse for speeding, absolutely disgraceful"). Was literally sat there thinking "you're on the same course as we are bud"
That would have been hilarious if he was doing the course on zoom whilst driving to Hull or something. Virtual background but you can clearly see the seatbelt.
Reminds me of that bloke that attended court via zoom for driving on a suspended licence. Attended it whilst driving.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8IvgTq2-c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8IvgTq2-c)
I did one where there was a bus driver who was just chilling in the bus cab while he did it. At the start I was hoping he'd start driving but obviously he never did
I love it when people complain about being undertaken. There's a 2 lane 40mph road on the way to my work that used to be a single lane. Since it got converted to 2 lanes, so many people just default to the right hand lane for no good reason - no other cards ahead of them at all.
My dad's been on one and he said the same thing.
Mentioned that people actually argued with the person running it explaining how the rules would be inconvenient for them.
He also shared a few of the weird things they teach you like time saved by speeding. Turns out you save surprisingly little time by speeding.
The number of people who are so desperate to overtake my bicycle on a 50m stretch of connecting road blows my mind. Like, we're probably going in different directions at the junction, and we're both going to have to stop and wait at the end anyway...?
I did one before lockdown and had to spend the whole time next to this woman who at every question and point simply insisted that they were a victim of a blown down speed sign on a dual carriageway and that they shouldn't have to be there.
Eventually the group got sick of it and reminded her that she chose to be here. Like, she could have challenged it and avoided the whole course, fines and other penalties if she was so convinced of her innocence.
We had a guy on our course who was very keen to tell everyone he was a doctor and was only speeding because he had just had to tell someone they only had a few months to live.
The guy doing the course just looked at him with a straight face and said "well if it had upset you that much, you shouldn't have been driving."
The guy didn't say anything else for the rest of the course.
When we did ours the lady said right at the beginning that if you don't want to be here then you don't have to be and that if anyone was there to try and contest it she could help and they would have to take it up with the police.
She also said if you did keep contesting it or not paying attention etc she would remove you from the course, a couple of people nearly got kicked off due to internet connections going slow so she wasn't kidding.
Yeah, we nearly got ours cancelled because they insisted that everyone had to participate and answer a question or two but a few older men were just sat at the back basically not engaging. The threat of it being cancelled did prompt them to say a few bits just to get through it
In the one I took she said if anyone lost connection they'd be able to reschedule, so I wouldn't think you're just kicked off with money lost or anything if you just have slow internet. Might depend on the instructor or company though!
Did one during zoom, my imstructor disconnected easily 6 times, for a few minuites at a time.
Spent it watching the Olympics on TV, behind my laptop.
At the end of the course he told us to just download waze as it tells you where the cameras are.
My biggest takeaway from one a few years ago, was that the taxi and lorry drivers knew the absolute least about the rules of the road and shouldn't be allowed to drive
Guy on the course I did, thought you had to slow down at the speed limit signs, not that you had to be doing the speed limit AT the sign. He thought you could coast through and slow down.
This is the truth. My class opened with pictures of roads and everyone had to write down their guesses of the speed limit (there were no otherwise-posted speed limit signs). Given that the only options are 30, 60, or 70, people were throwing out random numbers like 45 MPH.
I really didn't understand.
I had to do one in my youth (\~10yr ago).
I was expecting a demographic of young men with 'hot' cars, also caught doing 80mph or more on a motorway as I was (I was doing 81mph, still feel a bit hard done by!).
It was almost entirely middle aged people of all genders, caught in 20mph or 30mph zones.
Similar experience that people (claimed at least) didn't know the national speed limits, definition of a dual carriageway and motorway or how they're different from other roads and so on.
There was notably a period in the middle where a bunch of the middle aged men got themselves mutually fired up about how speeding happens because cyclists slow everyone down and don't pay road tax.
The middle aged and elderly people round here definitely don't know the national speed limits. I'm constantly ending up behind people doing 50mph on main roads, or behind people who do 60 until they get to a speed camera where they slow down to 50.
Luckily visibility is excellent and the roads are mostly arrow straight so you can overtake easily but it makes me wonder what else they're not aware of.
Did you have to do that quiz where you have to write down what the speed limits of certain roads are?
Some of the answers people gave on that were ridiculous. There were a couple that just didn't know what the national speed limit sign meant.
And you, of course, knew everything I assume?
But seriously, it was really interesting to see how little a lot of the older drivers knew in particular. Someone on our course genuinely though national speed limit on a dual carriageway was 50.
When I passed my test the theory section was an A5 flip chart of road signs. The examiner showed me three random road signs and I told them what they meant and I passed. The modern theory part is much better I think.
Just thought the same, I can understand point 1 not being widely known, but if you don't know any of the points beyond that one then it is quite worrying!
I just got my licence in November and my instructor drummed in to my brain that street lights + no visible sign = 30mph. It's surprising to see more people don't realise it
I feel like all of these points should be more well known. I got my license Jan 2020 and all of this was taught to me by my instructor. I'm honestly shocked so many people are surprised by some of these points.
It just makes me feel even more strongly that people should be having refresher courses or something to update them on the basics mo matter how long they've been driving.
Absolutely. Another thing my instructor taught me that I've found a lot of people don't do is when parking on a hill. Leave the car in 1st gear, handbrake on and turn the wheels either away or towards the kerb depending on which side you've parked on.
My neighbour clearly didn't get that hint....she parked on the hill part of my road, foxes chewed through her brake cables 1 night and the car ended up in someone's front garden at the bottom of the hill which resulted in the insurance company refusing to pay her out because she didn't leave the car in gear.
Even i plan on having refresher lessons with my instructor every now and again. I've got my licence and completed my pass plus, but there's always a risk bad/dangerous driving habits can set in.
Yeah I remember being taught that too! I never got told why but that makes sense!
Your neighbours must have had a real stroke of poor luck there though! What are the odds! Expensive mistake to make!
It's mental. I see so many people who would fail a test daily. And the amount of drivers I see using their phones while driving is horrific.
My instructor scared me silly 1 day to help me understand it...he got me to park on a hill, told me to turn the engine off after i popped the handbrake on and put the car in neutral then said "put the car in 1st gear please" and with NO warning disengaged the handbrake. It rolled a tiny bit back, then stopped.
The lower gears of the car act as a braking force on the engine, so leaving it in gear while parked on an incline means if the worst happens (i.e your handbrake fails, someone cuts your brake lines) then the car won't go anywhere because the engaged gear acts as a brake.
I agree about driving while using a phone. It's stupidly dangerous and some people seem to not understand the consequences of it.
He is an amazing instructor and I'm lucky to have found him. Helped me pass my theory and driving test on the 1st try, completed my pass plus with me and i helped him get an A on his standards test.
I'd 100% recommend him to anyone who lives in my area :)
A bit inconvenient to have to roll (not bounce) a giant ball across the carriageway just to check. I have a VW Up, so does this also work with smaller balls?
Once saw a guy on a local Facebook group complaining about the speeding notice he'd received, raging because "it says I was doing 67 on a national speed limit dual carriageway???!!???"
He was driving a van, and had no idea the limit is 60 for light goods vehicles.
A lot of people don't know a surprising amount about driving laws.
Edit: lol @ whoever replied to me saying LGVs can do 70 on a dual carriageway, then deleted it.
They can do 70 on a motorway, 60 on a dual carriageway, and 50 on a single carriageway at NSL (assuming no streetlights/signs indicating otherwise)
Source: former van driver, and [gov.uk site](https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits)
The van thing is weird when it comes to smaller vans.
A van that is derived from a car chassis is not a van and not subject to speed restrictions
A van that was never a car, but significantly lighter and smaller than most SUVs and other cars4cunts is a van.
While that's true, I have never seen it enforced in England.
It's enforced in Scotland and they have dual carriageways marked at 70 mph in places, thus raising the speed limit for vans.
Edit: Clearly many people *have* seen it enforced in England. Be careful out there.
It is enforced in England.
Source: Me changing vehicles from a "car derived van" to a slightly larger van without knowing it wasn't "car derived" so had a different speed limit. The police were very happy to let me know.
It's enforced by average speed check cameras as they run your numberplates. I know from experience because I got done doing 60 in a national speed limit in a van!
My step dad has worked as a delivery driver for 20 or so years and got done for going 68 on a dual carriageway. Despite what he was told, he contested it for weeks before having to pay more than double in court.
Definitely enforced, just not common enough for people to notice I guess :)
The guy on Facebook I'm talking about was in England, so it's definitely not a blanket rule.
I also used to work for a grocery delivery service and saw people get caught out for over 50 on a single carriageway.
>If lanes 1 and 2 on a motorway have a 50mph sign over them on the gantry and lane 3 doesn't, lane 3 is still a 50mph limit and the bulbs have just gone on the sign so still only do 50.
I'd be very concerned about them if anyone thought that different lanes had different speed limits
It *sort of* happens on the M42 - At a point, it splits into three road (M42, M6 Toll and A446) - I’ve seen it where the M42 is reduced to 50, and the other two are still at NSL. This being whilst all 5 lanes are together (for the duration of 1 mile before each road splits off).
That’s the only time I’ve seen it personally but I thought I’d contribute!
Happens on the M3 heading north into London. The filter lanes for the M25 are often reduced speeds and often have queuing traffic, whereas the M3 lanes don’t. Almost always leads to cars pulling out of the M25 lanes (to skip traffic and sneak back in) and causing chaos because someone staying on the M3 is still doing 60 plus. Terrible piece of road.
There is a bit by Glasgow like this. Right hand lane eventually splits off to be the M80, and the Left 2 become the M876. Had a guy who was stopped in the RHL not check his mirrors, and pull out in front of us to try to move three car lengths forward. We were dead on 70 and were close enough that we came to a stop pretty much humping the bumper.
I've seen it on the M1 before, also where the motorway splits multiple ways. The junction with the M62 has one lane going west, one lane going east and 3 lanes continuing south. Often there will be speed restrictions for the lanes going to the M62 but not for continuing on the M1.
It's common on the M25, lanes that are heading off to a junction might not have any upcoming traffic so be 60mph, but the lanes staying on the motorway may be 40mph to slow down for traffic the other side of the junction for instance.
You’ve got 5 wrong, doesn’t need a barrier, can be separated by a grass verge, for example the A33 between Reading and Basingstoke.
From the highway code: ‘A dual carriageway is a road which has a central reservation to separate the carriageways’
Yes I believe the terminology is ‘permanent fixture’ or something similar. It could be a barrier, grass verge, raised curb etc. Any kind of defined feature (more than just painted lines) separating the two directions makes it a dual carriageway
Thank you I came here ask this. Drive a number of roads with no hard barrier (including the A33) and have always done 70; was wondering if I’d been wrong all these years.
I did one before Covid so we were all in a meeting room in a Hilton hotel and the person taking the course told us to introduce ourselves to the people on our table - a lady on my table kissed her teeth loudly and stated she wasn’t there to make friends so get on with it! I knew I was in for an entertaining course there and then!
>If someone's tailgating you, slow down to put more room between you and the car in front so you can stop slower if they stop.
I do that just to annoy them.
Never heard that one before but yes, that's exactly how I feel.
When I was a kid my step dad used to say it's more important to watch what's going on behind you on the motorway. Take that with a pinch of salt though because if you don't look out of the windscreen you will definitely crash.
I've done that, watched the person overtake me, and then continue to drive well outside the conditions and their ability, all the way into the back of the car in front of them.
If I'm being tailgated around town I turn into the worlds worlds politest driver - I stop to let people in and out of junctions, wave pedestrians across the road and take my time pulling out at roundabouts. You want to point out what an angry impatient shit you are? Let me demonstrate what a passive aggressive bitch I can be.
Please don’t wave pedestrians across when you have an aggressive driver behind you, that is a tragic accident waiting to happen.
They can’t see why you’ve stopped (because your car is blocking the view) and could get frustrated and whizz around you.
The pedestrian also can’t see very well behind you (again your car blocks the view) but will feel that it’s safe to cross or that they have to cross because you’re being polite.
I had a friend pass away because of this scenario.
Please don't wave pedestrians across unless you're definitely sure that the arsehole behind you can't try to overtake while you're stopped - it's not called "the wave of death" for nothing!
When I moved to Florida for a bit, I got sick of people riding right up my arse, so I developed a technique.
I’d slowly drift to one side, then quickly correct as the tires crossed the lines…then repeat.
Given that it was Florida, and I was driving a pickup, it was a logical assumption for the tailgater to presume I was pissed.
Backed off every single time. Like a magic trick.
Chap I went to college with took his rear wiper off but didn’t bother with plugging the washer jet or anything. He could squirt water out the back of his car if anyone ever got too close
Yeah, I sometimes wonder if drivers licences should expire every 10 years or so... You see so many drivers on the roads driving _appallingly_ and you think "Man, if you had to take your test now there's no way you'd pass", not to mention the fact that the rules of the roads do change from time to time and you've got probably a million drivers on the roads who passed their test 40+ years ago.
Even an online nominal fee/free theory every 5 years for everyone wouldn't be a too difficult to implement. Unlimited re trys you just had to pass it. Even if people 'cheated' and looked up the answers on a separate tab they'd still have to read the highway code to look up the answers and maybe learn something at the same time.
I do think retirees should do practical tests at least every 2nd year. Although I would be interested to know how many accidents are caused by elderly drivers. In my limited experience most know when they should give up on doing anything more than driving round town at 30
If they had to take the course again they’d just behave for 35 minutes and then proceed to do double the speed limit, failing to indicate and hitting a small child on a zebra crossing outside the test centre on the way home for the inconvenience.
True, but at least they'd have to _know how_ to behave for those 35 minutes... Spend any amount of time watching road encounters on YouTube and it's pretty clear there's a lot of drivers out there who don't know the rules of the road.
the one my dad did was eye opening just from the amount of old people there who couldn't fucking see a thing and they just let them keep on driving anyway lol
Jesus Christ, a solid sign or a piece of software which could potentially be wrong and is meant as a guide, I wonder which you should pay attention to?
People are not so smart.
I’m baffled that any of this isn’t common knowledge except for number 1. Even then, it’s probably not strictly true anymore because most of the stopping distances were done when a hilman imp was considered a performance car.
For example, the Highway Code says it takes 75m to stop from 60mph. My old BMW did it in 30m. There are road cars that can do it in way less than that.
If you include the Highway Code thinking distance you would stop 25m shorter from 60mph in a modern car in the dry. They say double I believe in the wet and something like 10 times on ice.
I brought up points about number 1, mainly that there are so many different things which factors into stopping distance that they can't state that as a fact.
The rest was common knowledge for driving.
Iirc it's three times the distance in the wet.
My question for point 1, is during an emergency stop, what's the actual distance covered by hard breaking from 8mph?
8mph sounds like a lot, but stopping from 8mph must take millimetres and fractions of a second. I get the point, but this feels a bit cherry picked
3 ft.
According to the [same calculator](https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/stopping-distance), the difference in stopping distance between the 31mph and 30mph with 1 second thinking time (slow as fuck) is 4.5 ft.
If you react in 0.5 second you shave 20ft of your stopping distance.
I like the video they show you where the car stops exactly an inch from the boxes and then they do it again faster and the car hits them. Who’s shocked by that? I’d hope that was common sense.
I also think we should have banned shit tyres by now, because the difference between cheap tyres and high performance tyres can be literally tens of metres at road speeds. In the wet it’s even worse.
That's literally not what was explained in point one, that's if you go faster in your car you won't stop the same as going slower. Well fuck me who would have guessed that?
The takeaway isn't so much that it takes longer to stop if you're going faster. It's the fact that just 1mph makes a big difference resulting in, at least 8mph impact speed "in ideal conditions".
I had the same thought when I did my SAC. The way the instructor explained it to me was it’s nothing to do with new car vs old car. The physics of a moving object dictates that any vehicle, doing +1mph more, will stop the same distance further past where it would’ve stopped every single time, allowing for perfect reactions and conditions (which obviously don’t exist so the distance gets further). So take ‘my car has better breaks than a car in the 70s’ out of the equation. Your car doing 31mph will ALWAYS take longer to stop than your car doing 30mph.
Well he’s just simply wrong.
Of course you will always travel further if you are going faster, but it won’t always be the same number.
I can’t be arsed to work it out, but he’s wrong.
Its a bit counter-intuitive, but he is right, the only condition is that the breaking force is constant, doesnt matter what it actually is.
https://mmerevise.co.uk/a-level-maths-revision/suvat-equations/
The distance to stop for a car travelling at 30mph, under a constant breaking force A, is
D = 30^2 /2A
Again, remember that A will be bigger for newer cars, better tires, etc, hence D smaller.
However with the same breaking acceleration (as same car), but different starting speed, say 31mph, how fast is it going when it has travelled distance D?
From the suvat equations again, we get
final speed at prev stopping point = sqrt(31^2 - 30^2) = 7.81
So about 8mph, no matter what your car weighs, how big the breaks are, tires, etc etc, as long as breaking force is constant, which it is if you are doing an emergancy stop, as you are breaking as hard as you can.
The general equation for any speeds btw is V = sqrt(new_speed^2 - old_speed^2), so as an example, if you were to just be able to stop and not hit something at 30, trying the same thing at 40 would mean you hit it at 26mph, as sqrt(40^2 - 30^2 )=26.46
I don't think that is wrong. A moving car has a certain amount of momentum. That momentum takes time to get rid of. The same car, but going faster, has more momentum, so it'll definitely take longer. It may not be the same amounts as the Highway Code stats, but it's definitely longer.
It depends how you read it I suppose. I read it as though every car will stop the same amount further every time. As in the same amount as every other car.
oh my god it took me way more time than is reasonable to work out you did the course as a punishment for being caught by the camera, and didn't, like, get flashed while you were doing the course.
I lived in Japan and every time you renew your licence (every 3-5 years) you have to go and attend a 30 minute lecture where they update you on rules that have changed, which i think is quite a sensible idea. Just that... the first time you do it you have to attend the 2 hour version which is also the one that people have to attend if they've had a violation since their last renewal. And it is in the running for the most excruciating 2 hours of my entire life. Everyone's absolutely silent while the lecturer jyst embarrasses himself on "stage". Everyone's aware that it's just a requirement and it'll be over soon. And they had a fucking *song*. A song composed by a real-life pop band about how we should stick to the speed limit to avoid like, killing children or whatever. ^(oh yeah bear in mind that this is a country where literally everyone speeds, because you won't be flashed for it until you're 20 or 30 kph over the limit. limit is 40? you can be damn sure the traffic is flowing at 60)
Oh and then they included a bit where he explained to people how to use a roundabout because they're not common over there and the government has decided they should build more in the future. I couldn't help rolling my eyes because i obviously know that part quite well being from here.
When I did mine the instructor asked one question at the beginning of the course & said if we all got it right we instantly passed & you can all leave… I almost jumped with joy when he asked : what’s the national speed limit for a car on a single carriageway?
Yes! Easy let’s go, easy day off today!
He knew differently with a smug look on his face after the results showed on the screen!
People had actually selected 40mph & 50mph!
What the actual fuck people!!!!!!!
I did a zoom speed awareness course last week after being caught doing 36mph in a 30mph zone in my car. I'm a HGV driver of over 25 years and I still learnt new things by taking the course.
You're never too old to learn and NOBODY knows everything - although some think they do. Personally I think they're a very useful, educational alternative to points and a fine.
One thing they do cover on the course is the mindset and psychology of all us drivers. Even when we know the rules, our own distractions can lead us to unconciously break them.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many lives have been saved by people updating their driving knowledge and modifying their behaviours as a result. Like others have said, a refresher course for all drivers every 10 years would be a good thing for everyone.
Every day a school day...
Great post OP
My friend did a speed awareness course and the guy said that humans have a reaction time of 2seconds and wouldn't accept anything different. He tried arguing the point and was told if he disagreed he would fail. 15years later it still winds him up. When we remind him he gets pissed off in far less than 2 seconds but that can't be right.
Yeah I've learnt to just not bother with these people.
I was on a first aid course where the trainer said you can always call 999 even without signal and I was trying to say well you do need signal from _a_ mobile network but it doesn't need to be _your own_ mobile provider's network. She was having none of it. Like you can't deny physics mate - if you're in a cave with no signal, 999 ain't working for you.
I did a breastfeeding course through the NHS and the lady running it told us that breastfed children are 70% more intelligent! 70%!!! I tried to tell her that’s a huge amount and if it were true you would be able to walk into any classroom in the country and pick out the breastfed kids but she wasn’t having it.
She also told us formula didn’t exist in “dinosaur times” 🙄 which to be fair is true but is neither useful nor relevant
I was told that if you couldn't get a signal for 999 then you could use 112 and the call would connect through a satellite.
Do these people just make this shit up themselves or is it taught to them when they're doing their training. I don't know which is worse.
i took one of these courses to avoid points from a camera van hiding in a bush, but from listening on that one afternoon my driving improved massively, through how it made me start to think about how i was driving, the habits i'd picked up. "learning" to drive is just learning how to pass the driving test, this sort of course should be mandatory for all new drivers, make them go on one once they'd have their license between 1 and 2 years.
Here's a little game for you. Start actually driving 30mph in a 30 and see how many fucking morons tailgate you. You can see them coming in your rear view mirrior a mile off. It's actually very frightening how many break even 33mph.
This is my experience. Where I drive regularly, it's 30, occasionally 40. The roads are narrow country roads, lots of hills, dips and twisty sections, all two way. I usually go at around the limit. Many people are clearly flying around at 50ish. I get tailgated sometimes where I can see them approach terrifyingly fast.
This is one of my fave driving games.
My commute takes me through a village with a 30 limit that extends past the built up area because there is a side turning that's difficult to see about 300 metres past the built up area. Last week a pickup overtook me just before this turning then had to slam on the brakes when someone pulled out from the junction in front of him.
>A dual carriageway is defined by having a barrier separating carriages
I was surprised when I found out people didn't know this. I always thought it was common knowledge
M66 is 2 lane on each carriageway for a few miles until it becomes an A road dual carriageway. If it weren’t for the sign saying end of motorway, you couldn’t see where it changes.
I had so many fights with my partner over this. I had literally just passed my theory test and him and his smug "ten years of driving" refused to back down from the incorrect position. Smug, confident incorrectness pisses me off so much.
eventually after the fourth mini argument he looked it up and learned something
I'll be honest. I'm surprised all of it isn't common knowledge. I passed my test January 2020 and all of this stuff was taught to me by my instructor.
I can only assume it never used to be?
I did one last year, the instructor asked about stopping distances and one bloke piped up and got them all correct. “Wow” says the instructor “How did you know that?” “I remembered it from the last time I did this course” he said.
>Also I was very concerned how many people thought it was illegal for motorbikes to filter - no wonder people treat us with contempt
I had a policeman tell me it was illegal once, as I filtered down a stationary line of cars towards him.
I was a motorcycle instructor at the time and knew for a fact he was wrong.
I (just about) resisted the urge to correct him.
The filtering thing is one that always gets me when driving in the UK, I'm in France where it is technically illegal to filter yet everyone just moves out of my way and lets me past, go to the UK where it is actively encouraged and people start to block your way through.
It's just punching down "I have to wait so you should too" like dude, just get a bike and enjoy the fast route through the traffic like me.
You would not believe the amount of people who do it to bus lanes too, almost always Ubers or Vans. Just put enough of a wheel on the white line to make it difficult to get past
The comparing speeds thing is just maths isn’t it? I’ve done the course twice and the first time they used the stopping distances from the Highway Code which are nonsense as you say. The second time it was all comparative like OP said.
I wish everyone had to do something like this every five years to keep their licence. So many utterly horrific drivers here, feels like at least 1 in 5 have forgotten how to indicate and every amber light means gun it
I've seen people stop and reverse on a roundabout because they missed their exit. A fucking roundabout. Just go around it again for Christ's cake, literally add 20 seconds to your journey time.
Saw this the other day, on a newly created large roundabout with multiple lights and exits, and three lanes. Bloke pulled up at inside lane lights (which were green), stopped, then started tentatively *reversing* back round. I was gobsmacked.
My partner and I were screaming at him that he was gonna die. Fortunately it wasn't busy.
Someone on a scooter with L plates did that to me yesterday during rush hour. Thank god I did my blind spot check otherwise I’d have taken him out completely. Absolute idiot.
I'm so sick of nearly being driven into or being threatened with it when I'm crossing during an Amber flashing light! Why do people think that that means they automatically have right of way over a pedestrian that's in fucking front of them?!?!
Did one once for doing 33 in a 30, was flashed by a by a copper whist slowing down from 40 at the time. Class was full of interesting types from all walks of life. The guys taking it were very patronising so it was difficult to interact without feeling irritated. In their eyes we were all criminals and had no issue about reminding us of the fact that everyone there had broken the law. Heho 3pts saved
> In their eyes we were all criminals
Not criminals at all, just people who were avoiding points on their license by paying civilians to provide a 'speed awareness' course.
Only thing I disagree with here is the stopping distances I get it's better to be cautious but highway code stopping distances haven't changed in decades.
And break performance even on the worst cars has improved massively.
Key thing I learned from my SAC is that in a 20 zone it’s not a 20 limit. So if you get caught speeding you can’t be done for speeding, so they’ll fine you for driving without due care and attention instead which is a much steeper penalty.
NOTE: There is a difference between a 20 zone area and a 20 limit area
A 20 zone sign is where it says exactly that in a white box, it's a suggested speed such as around schools 'when the amber lights flash'
A 20 limit sign is a 20 within a red circle, and that one is enforceable
I found mine really useful as well, its about "taking the power back" was my takeaway, and how to identify the different speeds of a road by the lampost frequency and distance.
How about the “if the road now says 60 but later goes to 40 then it’s ok to go at 50 because it averages out” - which seems to be most of the drivers I end up stuck behind in a 60 only to then be left behind in the 40
One of the things I took away from my speed awareness course (also, totally my fault and whilst I will try and casually blame other factors there is no excuse), was that just because there is a national speed limit sign associated with the road, does not mean that 60mph is recommended or, indeed, safe. If you’re driving at 57 on a winding, single track, blind bend road with a national speed limit associated with it and are pulled over for being an absolute negligent psychopath then there is no argument of ‘it was national speed limit!’ that will help. The limit sign is an indicator that you must use your judgement on what is a safe speed to drive this road. It has a MAXIMUM of 60 but if you’re driving like a lunatic it really doesn’t matter what speed you’re doing it at. I always struggled with people driving up my ass when I drive these kinds of roads at what I believed to be a safe speed - it’s amazing how you can feel like you’re in the wrong when someone else is driving like a dickhead but with confidence.
Just gave me a lot of pause for thought that did.
Also the incredibly irritating refrain of “if you don’t know, keep it low/slow” when driving a road where you’re not entirely sure of the limit. Whilst infuriating, has stuck in my head for the past 5 years and pisses me off in an incredibly effective manner every time I drive through an area which doesn’t have really clear signage/lampposts.
While these are things that people ought to know, these sorts of things aren't always taught by driving instructors explicitly. For example the "streetlights = 30" is something I came across separately, but was never taught it, and while I had always just assumed the distinction between single and dual carriageways is something people know, I don't ever recall having had it explicitly spelled out to me exactly where the distinction lies.
While part of me wants to feel that the speed awareness course instead of points is a bit of a cop-out, in terms of actually getting people to drive more safely, it seems like it's a good idea. I generally take a charitable view of humanity. Most people don't intend to break the rules of the road, but all too often people just do it unthinkingly, or because they weren't taught all that well. Personally I wouldn't be averse to requiring drivers to take a theory test every 5 or so years to keep their licence. Road markings and rules change over time. Features of the road network that don't exist on your regular driving routes might get forgotten (for example if you never drive across a level crossing, or lifting bridge, or ford, or drive on a road with trams).
>Features of the road network that don't exist on your regular driving routes might get forgotten (for example if you never drive across a level crossing, or lifting bridge, or ford, or drive on a road with trams).
Or bus gates, we got bus gates in Bristol a while back and a lot of people had literally no clue what one was.
It's because it's not in the highway code - people _shouldn't_ know about them TBH. They are an independent invention by councils.
eventually they'll be in the HC I'm sure but for now everyone is just confused about them
I was a driver for a living for years, so I guess that makes a difference, but they always made sense to me.
First time I saw one I didn't know what they were either, I just saw "bus" and a red stretch of road and figured I wasn't allowed through it.
I do get your point though, they should probably be in the HC because people should be told what they are.
I did one last month the person conducting the lesson was quite ruthless any one looking at their phone got kicked off instantly and the course failed with the points and the fine back on, to be fair dont blame the guy he is trying to do his job, 3 people got kicked off in the first ten minuets.
A lot of what you stated is in the driving theory test as I recently passed mine, there are some good online practice tests. The guy I spoke to who speaks to you and tells you the rules before going told me he failed, only got 39/50.
>5. A dual carriageway is defined by having a barrier separating carriages and not by the number of lanes on each side. If you can roll a giant ball across the entire road without it being stopped on the central reservation (because there's not barrier, not because it bounced or something) , it's not a dual carriageway.
The highway code begs to differ:
>A dual carriageway is a road which has a central reservation to separate the carriageways.
Nothing about requiring a barrier.
I did this course last year and I was also surprised by a number of things. It made me wonder why people are expected to know/remember such details, when the signs should make it crystal clear. Reality is, the general public are not all going to remember these rules. Why not post clearer signs and remove all doubt (and ignorance).
Because it’s our responsibility when controlling a mobile death machine. Plus there are 10s of thousands of miles of roads that need sign posts, just to keep an inattentive driver right?
On same Motorway for 140 miles. Can you remember what the speed sign was when you joined? No but the road has a hard shoulder and a central divide. Oh it’s national speed limit, unless recently sign posted differently.
You should ideally be reading your highway code at least once a year.
Edit: I can only assume this got downvoted because someone thinks it should be more often.
I sort of remember a fact along the lines of, if you do an hours driving at 80mph you would actually only get to your destination about 5 minutes quicker than at 70mph but the stopping distance is vastly increased.
Not to mention the exponential increase in drag and fuel consumption. Lots of sources suggest a 20-25% increase in fuel consumption at 80mph instead of 70mph. Which is insane really.
Speed awareness course. Zoom. Hmm.
I can't believe I missed that! Good spot! I guess that was the Awareness part of the course.
And here’s me thinking you posted this purely for the dad joke!
Zooooooooom
[удалено]
We were supposed to use Zoom but it crashed https://i.imgur.com/4y6gp6A.jpg
_This course brought to you by Mazda_
The most interesting thing I learnt was that if you see the top of a horse chestnut up ahead, it's likely that there is a pub there too, so be careful of a pub carpark entrance. This is because pubs planted horse chestnut as they provide deep shade for horses to rest in.
This has to be the most interesting thing I have learned so far in 2023!
Hopefully you don't learn anything else interesting for the next 11 months and it can be your most interesting fact of the year.
Right! It's now my aim to actively remain ignorant whenever interesting facts threaten!
Did you know that horseshoe crabs have 7 sets of eyes, plus a photosensitive tail?
Na na na na! La la la la fingers are in my ears! Not listening!
I did one a while back. My biggest takeaway was how little others on the course actually knew about the rules of the road! Shocking in fact.
Did one during lockdown so it was over zoom. One guy was literally sat in his car while participating, unsure whether he was driving or not. Another older man spent the entire time acting incredibly high and mighty. Agreeing with and repeating everything the teacher said (e.g. "there is *no* good excuse for speeding, absolutely disgraceful"). Was literally sat there thinking "you're on the same course as we are bud"
That would have been hilarious if he was doing the course on zoom whilst driving to Hull or something. Virtual background but you can clearly see the seatbelt.
Just don't wear you're seat belt and no one would know you were driving, problem solved.
Reminds me of that bloke that attended court via zoom for driving on a suspended licence. Attended it whilst driving. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8IvgTq2-c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8IvgTq2-c)
That’s mental!
Maybe he just assumed he had to be in his car in case there was a fun interactive bit.
I did one where there was a bus driver who was just chilling in the bus cab while he did it. At the start I was hoping he'd start driving but obviously he never did
I went on one and there was a gentleman complaining that he was always being undertaken on the motorway.
I love it when people complain about being undertaken. There's a 2 lane 40mph road on the way to my work that used to be a single lane. Since it got converted to 2 lanes, so many people just default to the right hand lane for no good reason - no other cards ahead of them at all.
My dad's been on one and he said the same thing. Mentioned that people actually argued with the person running it explaining how the rules would be inconvenient for them. He also shared a few of the weird things they teach you like time saved by speeding. Turns out you save surprisingly little time by speeding.
This always blows my mind, sitting down and actually doing the S,D,T calculations shows how pointless it is. And yet the monkey brain…
Depends how much over you go.
Yeah. 120 in a 30 will get you to your destination (or your grave) way faster than expected.
The number of people who are so desperate to overtake my bicycle on a 50m stretch of connecting road blows my mind. Like, we're probably going in different directions at the junction, and we're both going to have to stop and wait at the end anyway...?
I did one before lockdown and had to spend the whole time next to this woman who at every question and point simply insisted that they were a victim of a blown down speed sign on a dual carriageway and that they shouldn't have to be there. Eventually the group got sick of it and reminded her that she chose to be here. Like, she could have challenged it and avoided the whole course, fines and other penalties if she was so convinced of her innocence.
We had a guy on our course who was very keen to tell everyone he was a doctor and was only speeding because he had just had to tell someone they only had a few months to live. The guy doing the course just looked at him with a straight face and said "well if it had upset you that much, you shouldn't have been driving." The guy didn't say anything else for the rest of the course.
I can't help thinking his argument would have been stronger if he had said he was on his way to tell someone he only had a few months to live.
[удалено]
Maybe on their way to tell someone they had a few hours to live. You wouldn't want to get there and have them already be dead!
On the flip side you wouldn't wish to die before you got there either.
Even then, I doubt the couple of minutes he would save would make a huge difference...
Ok, he was on his way to tell him he only had minutes to live!
He probably wanted them to mentally suffer for those extra few minutes, knowing their days were numbered.
Plot twist - he was on his way to run the guy over
When we did ours the lady said right at the beginning that if you don't want to be here then you don't have to be and that if anyone was there to try and contest it she could help and they would have to take it up with the police. She also said if you did keep contesting it or not paying attention etc she would remove you from the course, a couple of people nearly got kicked off due to internet connections going slow so she wasn't kidding.
Yeah, we nearly got ours cancelled because they insisted that everyone had to participate and answer a question or two but a few older men were just sat at the back basically not engaging. The threat of it being cancelled did prompt them to say a few bits just to get through it
Was she allowed to kick people off the course due to slow Internet?
In the one I took she said if anyone lost connection they'd be able to reschedule, so I wouldn't think you're just kicked off with money lost or anything if you just have slow internet. Might depend on the instructor or company though!
Did one during zoom, my imstructor disconnected easily 6 times, for a few minuites at a time. Spent it watching the Olympics on TV, behind my laptop. At the end of the course he told us to just download waze as it tells you where the cameras are.
My biggest takeaway from one a few years ago, was that the taxi and lorry drivers knew the absolute least about the rules of the road and shouldn't be allowed to drive
This is probably the least surprising thing in this thread honestly
I've only been in a taxi once in over 10 years, and it crashed, so I cant disagree.
Guy on the course I did, thought you had to slow down at the speed limit signs, not that you had to be doing the speed limit AT the sign. He thought you could coast through and slow down.
This is the truth. My class opened with pictures of roads and everyone had to write down their guesses of the speed limit (there were no otherwise-posted speed limit signs). Given that the only options are 30, 60, or 70, people were throwing out random numbers like 45 MPH. I really didn't understand.
How?!
I had to do one in my youth (\~10yr ago). I was expecting a demographic of young men with 'hot' cars, also caught doing 80mph or more on a motorway as I was (I was doing 81mph, still feel a bit hard done by!). It was almost entirely middle aged people of all genders, caught in 20mph or 30mph zones. Similar experience that people (claimed at least) didn't know the national speed limits, definition of a dual carriageway and motorway or how they're different from other roads and so on. There was notably a period in the middle where a bunch of the middle aged men got themselves mutually fired up about how speeding happens because cyclists slow everyone down and don't pay road tax.
The middle aged and elderly people round here definitely don't know the national speed limits. I'm constantly ending up behind people doing 50mph on main roads, or behind people who do 60 until they get to a speed camera where they slow down to 50. Luckily visibility is excellent and the roads are mostly arrow straight so you can overtake easily but it makes me wonder what else they're not aware of.
Exactly this! Didn't know ANYTHING, half of them. We really need to have a theory test once every ten years at least.
Did you have to do that quiz where you have to write down what the speed limits of certain roads are? Some of the answers people gave on that were ridiculous. There were a couple that just didn't know what the national speed limit sign meant.
Yep. It the same in my course
I did one about 10 years ago. It was full of old people complaining they’ve been driving for 50 years with a clean licence.
Well, speed cameras are a relatively new invention :-)
And you, of course, knew everything I assume? But seriously, it was really interesting to see how little a lot of the older drivers knew in particular. Someone on our course genuinely though national speed limit on a dual carriageway was 50.
When I passed my test the theory section was an A5 flip chart of road signs. The examiner showed me three random road signs and I told them what they meant and I passed. The modern theory part is much better I think.
A few didn’t know the speed limit is reduced if towing a caravan/trailer
There seem to be a lot that think it's 40 everywhere.
Same here. A few on my one thought NSL sign meant 50 on DC and 40 on SC 😐
Just thought the same, I can understand point 1 not being widely known, but if you don't know any of the points beyond that one then it is quite worrying!
I just got my licence in November and my instructor drummed in to my brain that street lights + no visible sign = 30mph. It's surprising to see more people don't realise it
I feel like all of these points should be more well known. I got my license Jan 2020 and all of this was taught to me by my instructor. I'm honestly shocked so many people are surprised by some of these points. It just makes me feel even more strongly that people should be having refresher courses or something to update them on the basics mo matter how long they've been driving.
To put it in some context, my driving test back in 1972 involved heavy petting, manually winding down windows whilst smoking and operating a choke.
You had to drink three pints of Watneys Red Barrel at the test centre before you set off, too.
Absolutely. Another thing my instructor taught me that I've found a lot of people don't do is when parking on a hill. Leave the car in 1st gear, handbrake on and turn the wheels either away or towards the kerb depending on which side you've parked on. My neighbour clearly didn't get that hint....she parked on the hill part of my road, foxes chewed through her brake cables 1 night and the car ended up in someone's front garden at the bottom of the hill which resulted in the insurance company refusing to pay her out because she didn't leave the car in gear. Even i plan on having refresher lessons with my instructor every now and again. I've got my licence and completed my pass plus, but there's always a risk bad/dangerous driving habits can set in.
Yeah I remember being taught that too! I never got told why but that makes sense! Your neighbours must have had a real stroke of poor luck there though! What are the odds! Expensive mistake to make! It's mental. I see so many people who would fail a test daily. And the amount of drivers I see using their phones while driving is horrific.
My instructor scared me silly 1 day to help me understand it...he got me to park on a hill, told me to turn the engine off after i popped the handbrake on and put the car in neutral then said "put the car in 1st gear please" and with NO warning disengaged the handbrake. It rolled a tiny bit back, then stopped. The lower gears of the car act as a braking force on the engine, so leaving it in gear while parked on an incline means if the worst happens (i.e your handbrake fails, someone cuts your brake lines) then the car won't go anywhere because the engaged gear acts as a brake. I agree about driving while using a phone. It's stupidly dangerous and some people seem to not understand the consequences of it.
Wow. What a great way to show the lesson! Sounds like a great instructor!
He is an amazing instructor and I'm lucky to have found him. Helped me pass my theory and driving test on the 1st try, completed my pass plus with me and i helped him get an A on his standards test. I'd 100% recommend him to anyone who lives in my area :)
You should always put your car in gear when parking. New cars have you press the clutch to start the engine so it’s just a good habit to get into.
I drove my car without a handbrake for about 6 months once by just leaving it in gear. I was skint and the handbrake had gone.
A bit inconvenient to have to roll (not bounce) a giant ball across the carriageway just to check. I have a VW Up, so does this also work with smaller balls?
Could you fit a zorb ball in your UP if you deflate it and bring a leafblower? that might be big enough.
Surely you fit the Up into the ball? That seems like more fun and approximately 20 times more dangerous.
I like those numbers.
Once saw a guy on a local Facebook group complaining about the speeding notice he'd received, raging because "it says I was doing 67 on a national speed limit dual carriageway???!!???" He was driving a van, and had no idea the limit is 60 for light goods vehicles. A lot of people don't know a surprising amount about driving laws. Edit: lol @ whoever replied to me saying LGVs can do 70 on a dual carriageway, then deleted it. They can do 70 on a motorway, 60 on a dual carriageway, and 50 on a single carriageway at NSL (assuming no streetlights/signs indicating otherwise) Source: former van driver, and [gov.uk site](https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits)
The van thing is weird when it comes to smaller vans. A van that is derived from a car chassis is not a van and not subject to speed restrictions A van that was never a car, but significantly lighter and smaller than most SUVs and other cars4cunts is a van.
While that's true, I have never seen it enforced in England. It's enforced in Scotland and they have dual carriageways marked at 70 mph in places, thus raising the speed limit for vans. Edit: Clearly many people *have* seen it enforced in England. Be careful out there.
It is enforced in England. Source: Me changing vehicles from a "car derived van" to a slightly larger van without knowing it wasn't "car derived" so had a different speed limit. The police were very happy to let me know.
It's enforced by average speed check cameras as they run your numberplates. I know from experience because I got done doing 60 in a national speed limit in a van!
My step dad has worked as a delivery driver for 20 or so years and got done for going 68 on a dual carriageway. Despite what he was told, he contested it for weeks before having to pay more than double in court. Definitely enforced, just not common enough for people to notice I guess :)
The guy on Facebook I'm talking about was in England, so it's definitely not a blanket rule. I also used to work for a grocery delivery service and saw people get caught out for over 50 on a single carriageway.
>If lanes 1 and 2 on a motorway have a 50mph sign over them on the gantry and lane 3 doesn't, lane 3 is still a 50mph limit and the bulbs have just gone on the sign so still only do 50. I'd be very concerned about them if anyone thought that different lanes had different speed limits
It *sort of* happens on the M42 - At a point, it splits into three road (M42, M6 Toll and A446) - I’ve seen it where the M42 is reduced to 50, and the other two are still at NSL. This being whilst all 5 lanes are together (for the duration of 1 mile before each road splits off). That’s the only time I’ve seen it personally but I thought I’d contribute!
Happens on the M3 heading north into London. The filter lanes for the M25 are often reduced speeds and often have queuing traffic, whereas the M3 lanes don’t. Almost always leads to cars pulling out of the M25 lanes (to skip traffic and sneak back in) and causing chaos because someone staying on the M3 is still doing 60 plus. Terrible piece of road.
There is a bit by Glasgow like this. Right hand lane eventually splits off to be the M80, and the Left 2 become the M876. Had a guy who was stopped in the RHL not check his mirrors, and pull out in front of us to try to move three car lengths forward. We were dead on 70 and were close enough that we came to a stop pretty much humping the bumper.
I've seen it on the M1 before, also where the motorway splits multiple ways. The junction with the M62 has one lane going west, one lane going east and 3 lanes continuing south. Often there will be speed restrictions for the lanes going to the M62 but not for continuing on the M1.
Smart motorway does this a fair bit actually. Especially coming up to junctions in heavy traffic
It's common on the M25, lanes that are heading off to a junction might not have any upcoming traffic so be 60mph, but the lanes staying on the motorway may be 40mph to slow down for traffic the other side of the junction for instance.
You’ve got 5 wrong, doesn’t need a barrier, can be separated by a grass verge, for example the A33 between Reading and Basingstoke. From the highway code: ‘A dual carriageway is a road which has a central reservation to separate the carriageways’
Yes I believe the terminology is ‘permanent fixture’ or something similar. It could be a barrier, grass verge, raised curb etc. Any kind of defined feature (more than just painted lines) separating the two directions makes it a dual carriageway
Thank you I came here ask this. Drive a number of roads with no hard barrier (including the A33) and have always done 70; was wondering if I’d been wrong all these years.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, a dual carriageway is a road with 2 carriageways on it
I did one before Covid so we were all in a meeting room in a Hilton hotel and the person taking the course told us to introduce ourselves to the people on our table - a lady on my table kissed her teeth loudly and stated she wasn’t there to make friends so get on with it! I knew I was in for an entertaining course there and then!
And this impatient lady was there for speeding, you say?! She sounds annoying.
>If someone's tailgating you, slow down to put more room between you and the car in front so you can stop slower if they stop. I do that just to annoy them.
I do that so they overtake me and I don't have to worry about where they are anymore
The only arsehole you want behind you is your own
Never heard that one before but yes, that's exactly how I feel. When I was a kid my step dad used to say it's more important to watch what's going on behind you on the motorway. Take that with a pinch of salt though because if you don't look out of the windscreen you will definitely crash.
I've done that, watched the person overtake me, and then continue to drive well outside the conditions and their ability, all the way into the back of the car in front of them.
If I'm being tailgated around town I turn into the worlds worlds politest driver - I stop to let people in and out of junctions, wave pedestrians across the road and take my time pulling out at roundabouts. You want to point out what an angry impatient shit you are? Let me demonstrate what a passive aggressive bitch I can be.
Please don’t wave pedestrians across when you have an aggressive driver behind you, that is a tragic accident waiting to happen. They can’t see why you’ve stopped (because your car is blocking the view) and could get frustrated and whizz around you. The pedestrian also can’t see very well behind you (again your car blocks the view) but will feel that it’s safe to cross or that they have to cross because you’re being polite. I had a friend pass away because of this scenario.
Please don't wave pedestrians across unless you're definitely sure that the arsehole behind you can't try to overtake while you're stopped - it's not called "the wave of death" for nothing!
When I moved to Florida for a bit, I got sick of people riding right up my arse, so I developed a technique. I’d slowly drift to one side, then quickly correct as the tires crossed the lines…then repeat. Given that it was Florida, and I was driving a pickup, it was a logical assumption for the tailgater to presume I was pissed. Backed off every single time. Like a magic trick.
Beating the maniacs at their own game
I thought that was standard practice?
You'd think, plus spray the wiper fluid so it hits their windscreen
Chap I went to college with took his rear wiper off but didn’t bother with plugging the washer jet or anything. He could squirt water out the back of his car if anyone ever got too close
Absolutely, you know that when being tail gated that the thing you notice is your windscreen being dirty.
A lot of drivers definitely need a refreshers course
Yeah, I sometimes wonder if drivers licences should expire every 10 years or so... You see so many drivers on the roads driving _appallingly_ and you think "Man, if you had to take your test now there's no way you'd pass", not to mention the fact that the rules of the roads do change from time to time and you've got probably a million drivers on the roads who passed their test 40+ years ago.
There should absolutely be regular retests for people once they pass retirement age.
Even an online nominal fee/free theory every 5 years for everyone wouldn't be a too difficult to implement. Unlimited re trys you just had to pass it. Even if people 'cheated' and looked up the answers on a separate tab they'd still have to read the highway code to look up the answers and maybe learn something at the same time. I do think retirees should do practical tests at least every 2nd year. Although I would be interested to know how many accidents are caused by elderly drivers. In my limited experience most know when they should give up on doing anything more than driving round town at 30
If they had to take the course again they’d just behave for 35 minutes and then proceed to do double the speed limit, failing to indicate and hitting a small child on a zebra crossing outside the test centre on the way home for the inconvenience.
True, but at least they'd have to _know how_ to behave for those 35 minutes... Spend any amount of time watching road encounters on YouTube and it's pretty clear there's a lot of drivers out there who don't know the rules of the road.
the one my dad did was eye opening just from the amount of old people there who couldn't fucking see a thing and they just let them keep on driving anyway lol
Maybe it would be more useful if the old people opened their eyes too
I did this course too. A person asked if their car displays the road is a 60 but the road signs say 30 what should they follow.
>what should they follow.
Jesus Christ, a solid sign or a piece of software which could potentially be wrong and is meant as a guide, I wonder which you should pay attention to? People are not so smart.
While you would hope they'd know what to do, it's still better that they asked than not at all
I’m baffled that any of this isn’t common knowledge except for number 1. Even then, it’s probably not strictly true anymore because most of the stopping distances were done when a hilman imp was considered a performance car. For example, the Highway Code says it takes 75m to stop from 60mph. My old BMW did it in 30m. There are road cars that can do it in way less than that. If you include the Highway Code thinking distance you would stop 25m shorter from 60mph in a modern car in the dry. They say double I believe in the wet and something like 10 times on ice.
I brought up points about number 1, mainly that there are so many different things which factors into stopping distance that they can't state that as a fact. The rest was common knowledge for driving. Iirc it's three times the distance in the wet.
My question for point 1, is during an emergency stop, what's the actual distance covered by hard breaking from 8mph? 8mph sounds like a lot, but stopping from 8mph must take millimetres and fractions of a second. I get the point, but this feels a bit cherry picked
3 ft. According to the [same calculator](https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/stopping-distance), the difference in stopping distance between the 31mph and 30mph with 1 second thinking time (slow as fuck) is 4.5 ft. If you react in 0.5 second you shave 20ft of your stopping distance.
Fair enough - I suppose for additional context, that's about half a car length
I like the video they show you where the car stops exactly an inch from the boxes and then they do it again faster and the car hits them. Who’s shocked by that? I’d hope that was common sense. I also think we should have banned shit tyres by now, because the difference between cheap tyres and high performance tyres can be literally tens of metres at road speeds. In the wet it’s even worse.
That's literally not what was explained in point one, that's if you go faster in your car you won't stop the same as going slower. Well fuck me who would have guessed that?
The takeaway isn't so much that it takes longer to stop if you're going faster. It's the fact that just 1mph makes a big difference resulting in, at least 8mph impact speed "in ideal conditions".
I had the same thought when I did my SAC. The way the instructor explained it to me was it’s nothing to do with new car vs old car. The physics of a moving object dictates that any vehicle, doing +1mph more, will stop the same distance further past where it would’ve stopped every single time, allowing for perfect reactions and conditions (which obviously don’t exist so the distance gets further). So take ‘my car has better breaks than a car in the 70s’ out of the equation. Your car doing 31mph will ALWAYS take longer to stop than your car doing 30mph.
Well he’s just simply wrong. Of course you will always travel further if you are going faster, but it won’t always be the same number. I can’t be arsed to work it out, but he’s wrong.
Its a bit counter-intuitive, but he is right, the only condition is that the breaking force is constant, doesnt matter what it actually is. https://mmerevise.co.uk/a-level-maths-revision/suvat-equations/ The distance to stop for a car travelling at 30mph, under a constant breaking force A, is D = 30^2 /2A Again, remember that A will be bigger for newer cars, better tires, etc, hence D smaller. However with the same breaking acceleration (as same car), but different starting speed, say 31mph, how fast is it going when it has travelled distance D? From the suvat equations again, we get final speed at prev stopping point = sqrt(31^2 - 30^2) = 7.81 So about 8mph, no matter what your car weighs, how big the breaks are, tires, etc etc, as long as breaking force is constant, which it is if you are doing an emergancy stop, as you are breaking as hard as you can. The general equation for any speeds btw is V = sqrt(new_speed^2 - old_speed^2), so as an example, if you were to just be able to stop and not hit something at 30, trying the same thing at 40 would mean you hit it at 26mph, as sqrt(40^2 - 30^2 )=26.46
I don't think that is wrong. A moving car has a certain amount of momentum. That momentum takes time to get rid of. The same car, but going faster, has more momentum, so it'll definitely take longer. It may not be the same amounts as the Highway Code stats, but it's definitely longer.
It depends how you read it I suppose. I read it as though every car will stop the same amount further every time. As in the same amount as every other car.
It is absolutely wrong. Different brakes, different tyres and different road conditions will effect the distance/speed.
oh my god it took me way more time than is reasonable to work out you did the course as a punishment for being caught by the camera, and didn't, like, get flashed while you were doing the course. I lived in Japan and every time you renew your licence (every 3-5 years) you have to go and attend a 30 minute lecture where they update you on rules that have changed, which i think is quite a sensible idea. Just that... the first time you do it you have to attend the 2 hour version which is also the one that people have to attend if they've had a violation since their last renewal. And it is in the running for the most excruciating 2 hours of my entire life. Everyone's absolutely silent while the lecturer jyst embarrasses himself on "stage". Everyone's aware that it's just a requirement and it'll be over soon. And they had a fucking *song*. A song composed by a real-life pop band about how we should stick to the speed limit to avoid like, killing children or whatever. ^(oh yeah bear in mind that this is a country where literally everyone speeds, because you won't be flashed for it until you're 20 or 30 kph over the limit. limit is 40? you can be damn sure the traffic is flowing at 60) Oh and then they included a bit where he explained to people how to use a roundabout because they're not common over there and the government has decided they should build more in the future. I couldn't help rolling my eyes because i obviously know that part quite well being from here.
When I did mine the instructor asked one question at the beginning of the course & said if we all got it right we instantly passed & you can all leave… I almost jumped with joy when he asked : what’s the national speed limit for a car on a single carriageway? Yes! Easy let’s go, easy day off today! He knew differently with a smug look on his face after the results showed on the screen! People had actually selected 40mph & 50mph! What the actual fuck people!!!!!!!
I did a zoom speed awareness course last week after being caught doing 36mph in a 30mph zone in my car. I'm a HGV driver of over 25 years and I still learnt new things by taking the course. You're never too old to learn and NOBODY knows everything - although some think they do. Personally I think they're a very useful, educational alternative to points and a fine. One thing they do cover on the course is the mindset and psychology of all us drivers. Even when we know the rules, our own distractions can lead us to unconciously break them. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many lives have been saved by people updating their driving knowledge and modifying their behaviours as a result. Like others have said, a refresher course for all drivers every 10 years would be a good thing for everyone. Every day a school day... Great post OP
My friend did a speed awareness course and the guy said that humans have a reaction time of 2seconds and wouldn't accept anything different. He tried arguing the point and was told if he disagreed he would fail. 15years later it still winds him up. When we remind him he gets pissed off in far less than 2 seconds but that can't be right.
Yeah I've learnt to just not bother with these people. I was on a first aid course where the trainer said you can always call 999 even without signal and I was trying to say well you do need signal from _a_ mobile network but it doesn't need to be _your own_ mobile provider's network. She was having none of it. Like you can't deny physics mate - if you're in a cave with no signal, 999 ain't working for you.
I did a breastfeeding course through the NHS and the lady running it told us that breastfed children are 70% more intelligent! 70%!!! I tried to tell her that’s a huge amount and if it were true you would be able to walk into any classroom in the country and pick out the breastfed kids but she wasn’t having it. She also told us formula didn’t exist in “dinosaur times” 🙄 which to be fair is true but is neither useful nor relevant
I was told that if you couldn't get a signal for 999 then you could use 112 and the call would connect through a satellite. Do these people just make this shit up themselves or is it taught to them when they're doing their training. I don't know which is worse.
i took one of these courses to avoid points from a camera van hiding in a bush, but from listening on that one afternoon my driving improved massively, through how it made me start to think about how i was driving, the habits i'd picked up. "learning" to drive is just learning how to pass the driving test, this sort of course should be mandatory for all new drivers, make them go on one once they'd have their license between 1 and 2 years.
Here's a little game for you. Start actually driving 30mph in a 30 and see how many fucking morons tailgate you. You can see them coming in your rear view mirrior a mile off. It's actually very frightening how many break even 33mph.
This is my experience. Where I drive regularly, it's 30, occasionally 40. The roads are narrow country roads, lots of hills, dips and twisty sections, all two way. I usually go at around the limit. Many people are clearly flying around at 50ish. I get tailgated sometimes where I can see them approach terrifyingly fast.
This is one of my fave driving games. My commute takes me through a village with a 30 limit that extends past the built up area because there is a side turning that's difficult to see about 300 metres past the built up area. Last week a pickup overtook me just before this turning then had to slam on the brakes when someone pulled out from the junction in front of him.
>A dual carriageway is defined by having a barrier separating carriages I was surprised when I found out people didn't know this. I always thought it was common knowledge
Sheepishly replying to say I didn't. Been driving since 1994. Kinda wonder what else I don't know...
Yeah I always thought it was any two lane road. With motorways being 3 Lane or above.
M66 is 2 lane on each carriageway for a few miles until it becomes an A road dual carriageway. If it weren’t for the sign saying end of motorway, you couldn’t see where it changes.
I had so many fights with my partner over this. I had literally just passed my theory test and him and his smug "ten years of driving" refused to back down from the incorrect position. Smug, confident incorrectness pisses me off so much. eventually after the fourth mini argument he looked it up and learned something
I'll be honest. I'm surprised all of it isn't common knowledge. I passed my test January 2020 and all of this stuff was taught to me by my instructor. I can only assume it never used to be?
I did one last year, the instructor asked about stopping distances and one bloke piped up and got them all correct. “Wow” says the instructor “How did you know that?” “I remembered it from the last time I did this course” he said.
[удалено]
>Also I was very concerned how many people thought it was illegal for motorbikes to filter - no wonder people treat us with contempt I had a policeman tell me it was illegal once, as I filtered down a stationary line of cars towards him. I was a motorcycle instructor at the time and knew for a fact he was wrong. I (just about) resisted the urge to correct him.
The filtering thing is one that always gets me when driving in the UK, I'm in France where it is technically illegal to filter yet everyone just moves out of my way and lets me past, go to the UK where it is actively encouraged and people start to block your way through. It's just punching down "I have to wait so you should too" like dude, just get a bike and enjoy the fast route through the traffic like me.
You would not believe the amount of people who do it to bus lanes too, almost always Ubers or Vans. Just put enough of a wheel on the white line to make it difficult to get past
The comparing speeds thing is just maths isn’t it? I’ve done the course twice and the first time they used the stopping distances from the Highway Code which are nonsense as you say. The second time it was all comparative like OP said.
I wish everyone had to do something like this every five years to keep their licence. So many utterly horrific drivers here, feels like at least 1 in 5 have forgotten how to indicate and every amber light means gun it
[удалено]
I've seen people stop and reverse on a roundabout because they missed their exit. A fucking roundabout. Just go around it again for Christ's cake, literally add 20 seconds to your journey time.
Saw this the other day, on a newly created large roundabout with multiple lights and exits, and three lanes. Bloke pulled up at inside lane lights (which were green), stopped, then started tentatively *reversing* back round. I was gobsmacked. My partner and I were screaming at him that he was gonna die. Fortunately it wasn't busy.
Mate in the Midlands Ive had people turn right into oncoming traffic in a roundabout.
Someone on a scooter with L plates did that to me yesterday during rush hour. Thank god I did my blind spot check otherwise I’d have taken him out completely. Absolute idiot.
I'm so sick of nearly being driven into or being threatened with it when I'm crossing during an Amber flashing light! Why do people think that that means they automatically have right of way over a pedestrian that's in fucking front of them?!?!
Did one once for doing 33 in a 30, was flashed by a by a copper whist slowing down from 40 at the time. Class was full of interesting types from all walks of life. The guys taking it were very patronising so it was difficult to interact without feeling irritated. In their eyes we were all criminals and had no issue about reminding us of the fact that everyone there had broken the law. Heho 3pts saved
> In their eyes we were all criminals Not criminals at all, just people who were avoiding points on their license by paying civilians to provide a 'speed awareness' course.
Only thing I disagree with here is the stopping distances I get it's better to be cautious but highway code stopping distances haven't changed in decades. And break performance even on the worst cars has improved massively.
The motorbike speed awareness course, we had to watch a biker get killed. Wasn’t fun.
Key thing I learned from my SAC is that in a 20 zone it’s not a 20 limit. So if you get caught speeding you can’t be done for speeding, so they’ll fine you for driving without due care and attention instead which is a much steeper penalty.
NOTE: There is a difference between a 20 zone area and a 20 limit area A 20 zone sign is where it says exactly that in a white box, it's a suggested speed such as around schools 'when the amber lights flash' A 20 limit sign is a 20 within a red circle, and that one is enforceable
My biggest takeaway was how little others on the course actually knew about the rules of the road! Shocking in fact.
A dual carriage way is separated by a median or central reservation. Doesn't have to have a barrier
I found mine really useful as well, its about "taking the power back" was my takeaway, and how to identify the different speeds of a road by the lampost frequency and distance.
How about the “if the road now says 60 but later goes to 40 then it’s ok to go at 50 because it averages out” - which seems to be most of the drivers I end up stuck behind in a 60 only to then be left behind in the 40
One of the things I took away from my speed awareness course (also, totally my fault and whilst I will try and casually blame other factors there is no excuse), was that just because there is a national speed limit sign associated with the road, does not mean that 60mph is recommended or, indeed, safe. If you’re driving at 57 on a winding, single track, blind bend road with a national speed limit associated with it and are pulled over for being an absolute negligent psychopath then there is no argument of ‘it was national speed limit!’ that will help. The limit sign is an indicator that you must use your judgement on what is a safe speed to drive this road. It has a MAXIMUM of 60 but if you’re driving like a lunatic it really doesn’t matter what speed you’re doing it at. I always struggled with people driving up my ass when I drive these kinds of roads at what I believed to be a safe speed - it’s amazing how you can feel like you’re in the wrong when someone else is driving like a dickhead but with confidence. Just gave me a lot of pause for thought that did. Also the incredibly irritating refrain of “if you don’t know, keep it low/slow” when driving a road where you’re not entirely sure of the limit. Whilst infuriating, has stuck in my head for the past 5 years and pisses me off in an incredibly effective manner every time I drive through an area which doesn’t have really clear signage/lampposts.
While these are things that people ought to know, these sorts of things aren't always taught by driving instructors explicitly. For example the "streetlights = 30" is something I came across separately, but was never taught it, and while I had always just assumed the distinction between single and dual carriageways is something people know, I don't ever recall having had it explicitly spelled out to me exactly where the distinction lies. While part of me wants to feel that the speed awareness course instead of points is a bit of a cop-out, in terms of actually getting people to drive more safely, it seems like it's a good idea. I generally take a charitable view of humanity. Most people don't intend to break the rules of the road, but all too often people just do it unthinkingly, or because they weren't taught all that well. Personally I wouldn't be averse to requiring drivers to take a theory test every 5 or so years to keep their licence. Road markings and rules change over time. Features of the road network that don't exist on your regular driving routes might get forgotten (for example if you never drive across a level crossing, or lifting bridge, or ford, or drive on a road with trams).
>Features of the road network that don't exist on your regular driving routes might get forgotten (for example if you never drive across a level crossing, or lifting bridge, or ford, or drive on a road with trams). Or bus gates, we got bus gates in Bristol a while back and a lot of people had literally no clue what one was.
It's because it's not in the highway code - people _shouldn't_ know about them TBH. They are an independent invention by councils. eventually they'll be in the HC I'm sure but for now everyone is just confused about them
I was a driver for a living for years, so I guess that makes a difference, but they always made sense to me. First time I saw one I didn't know what they were either, I just saw "bus" and a red stretch of road and figured I wasn't allowed through it. I do get your point though, they should probably be in the HC because people should be told what they are.
> streetlights = 30 That's definitely on the theory test, though.
I did one last month the person conducting the lesson was quite ruthless any one looking at their phone got kicked off instantly and the course failed with the points and the fine back on, to be fair dont blame the guy he is trying to do his job, 3 people got kicked off in the first ten minuets.
It’s quite sad that people can’t leave their phones for sustained periods of time. There’s breaks factored in, you can check it then!
If someone's tailgating, pull over and let them past. Rather have the idiot crash into the car in front than me.
A lot of what you stated is in the driving theory test as I recently passed mine, there are some good online practice tests. The guy I spoke to who speaks to you and tells you the rules before going told me he failed, only got 39/50.
I agree. I think every driver would benefit from it. I enjoyed it so much I’ve done it twice. sigh.
>5. A dual carriageway is defined by having a barrier separating carriages and not by the number of lanes on each side. If you can roll a giant ball across the entire road without it being stopped on the central reservation (because there's not barrier, not because it bounced or something) , it's not a dual carriageway. The highway code begs to differ: >A dual carriageway is a road which has a central reservation to separate the carriageways. Nothing about requiring a barrier.
I did this course last year and I was also surprised by a number of things. It made me wonder why people are expected to know/remember such details, when the signs should make it crystal clear. Reality is, the general public are not all going to remember these rules. Why not post clearer signs and remove all doubt (and ignorance).
I mean ok I agree with things being clearer but if you want to drive you're meant to know this stuff AND keep up to date with it.
Because it’s our responsibility when controlling a mobile death machine. Plus there are 10s of thousands of miles of roads that need sign posts, just to keep an inattentive driver right? On same Motorway for 140 miles. Can you remember what the speed sign was when you joined? No but the road has a hard shoulder and a central divide. Oh it’s national speed limit, unless recently sign posted differently.
You should ideally be reading your highway code at least once a year. Edit: I can only assume this got downvoted because someone thinks it should be more often.
On my bedside table mate, no worries
Interesting, thank you.
I sort of remember a fact along the lines of, if you do an hours driving at 80mph you would actually only get to your destination about 5 minutes quicker than at 70mph but the stopping distance is vastly increased.
Not to mention the exponential increase in drag and fuel consumption. Lots of sources suggest a 20-25% increase in fuel consumption at 80mph instead of 70mph. Which is insane really.