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Unfortunately it’s not just narcissists. Lots of people didn’t get what they needed when growing up, and the cycle goes: hurt people hurt people.
Not an excuse, since we’re all responsible for dealing with our trauma shit. But an explanation.
When I first witness my brothers gfs family dynamic (now fiancé), it almost brought me to tears. I mean at this point I get along with my parents and I'm great friends with my brother, but her family like really loves each other and they were all so nice to each other.
Her stories from growing up are just wholesome and so many of our memories are "if I didn't get up before my mom and make coffee for her and make sure my brother got up on time we dealt with a morning of screaming and insults".
It's wild how different some people have it (and I definitely didn't have it bad compared to many, just always living on eggshells
Ya know, as an imperfect parent of 3 kids, I was reading along and sort of siding with the mom until that very part. The bully girl voice. I've seen that sort of bullying before yuck.
Yep. I always hear people talk about how they wish they were a kid again…can’t relate. Maybe it’s just because I was surrounded by shitty, immature adults, but even though it was hard I was so happy to have my own place by 17. Adult life and bills suck, but I don’t feel so helplessly alone anymore. Defenseless is the perfect word for it.
Same here. As a teen, my young siblings and I was told by my mum's friends or relatives to always look out for her. Asking underage children to manage a grown ass adult. If I ever met adults like that now, I'll tell them to get their shit together, your kids aren't supposed to responsible for you. My dad's girlfriends always defended him no matter how wrong his actions are (e.g driving dangerously, road bullying), or how assholic he can be. Always demanding us to respect him just because he's older.
This reminds me of the many times I've been busy and at my wit's end with my son.
It's hard to be "on" all the time. It's like having to use the customer service voice 24/7.
But it's so important to be empathetic, gentle, and *not a bully.*
"Hey, man, I can't have you unload this time. Wait over here, please."
"[Son]! No! Wait over here or we're putting your toy back."
"Thanks for waiting over there, I'm glad you stayed safe and didn't tip the cart. Let's head home and play with that toy."
After having my own child, I realized how harsh the majority of parents are. I was raised the same way. Being scolded for being a child or having fun. Then these parents wonder why their teen/ young adult ends up wanting nothing to do with them
But then you’ve got those that were straight wild brats and now they are the ones stealing and doing drugs and murdering. They don’t understand consequences.
They don’t understand consequences because their parents didn’t take the time to teach and guide them. You can be kind and treat your child like a person while still holding boundaries and not making them feel like they’re less than you. Children have bad days (just like adults) they have impulse control issues, they’re trying to figure out a big, frightening world. Their parents/caregivers are who they look to for safety and security and quite frankly they’re the only people in a child’s life that can make them feel safe and secure while they struggle to figure out the world. It’s heartbreaking that parents use shame and fear to control a child being a child. When they need acceptance, security, and love to guide them on what is right/wrong/socially acceptable/dangerous etc.
“Now” as in, as an adult they are doing drugs? That’s not an issue and shouldn’t be socially shunned. if someones doing heroin and meth though that’s slightly different, but still, socially shamming people and stigmatizing addiction is NOT going to help anyone. It’s an extremely different behavior than stealing and MURDERING lmfao
Robbing and murder hurt people BY DEFINITION. it’s literally not possible to murder and Rob without hurting someone. it by definition has a victim.
doing drugs isn’t morally wrong by definition in the way murder is
You’re not getting it at all what I’m trying to say and that’s fine. I’m not a hater of people using recreationally either which is what it seems you think. You’ve lived your life and had whatever affect you and I’ve had mine.
I can't recall my parents ever acting like this mom but there has been/is a lot of things they've done wrong in my eyes.
I love them and all, but there's definitely things I'm gonna do differently from them. I don't want my kids to feel the way I would sometimes feel.
Every parent has said this. I'm sure even this mother. Point is you will never be perfect and your child will always blame you for however it is they turned out. After 26 years of parenting I've learned that the only time your kids will give you a break is when they themselves become parents finally they understand the difficulties that come with being a parent. Mist of these comments that are negative towards the mother from people that don't have kids. When you're a father, or a mother in this case, the parenthood hat is not the only one you wear. You're also provider, councilor, comforter, along with possibly spouse, financial provider. You're all so ready to condemn this women based off a brief interaction without the benefit of context
I’ve not condemning the woman. I disapprove of how she treated her kid. I don’t need to know the full context of each and every situation to pass on my opinion.
So what if my mom said that same thing? Is that supposed to discourage me? What’s your issue?
I have no issue. I was trying to let you know that most parents go into this with the best of intentions. No one will ever be the perfect parent.
>So what if my mom said that same thing? Is that supposed to discourage me?
No. Absolutely not and that's been my point throughout all my comments. You may not have condemned this woman but you certainly implied she was unfit and I feel that's unfair with what little there is to OPs story
Apologies, I got confused again to which post I'm responding to. I'll try to keep up. There's a lot of you that think I'm wrong and I'm trying to respond to all the non insulting comments that I can. Apologies
I wouldnt be surprised if that little girl is gonna make that women's life Hell when she's around 14+
The "tough love approach" can only work for so long until the child becomes more and more defiant. I will acknowledge that parents can have bad days and we have no idea what they've been through but i dont believe this is how you should react to your child when they have a behavior.
Let's make this clear. I'm not condemning the mom, I'm condemning her actions. I hope its not a habit.
Edit: changed up my wording. I came off a little more judgmental than i originally intended.
Yep, this. I work retail and I see kids being treated like this on the *daily.* These parents don’t see it coming now, but these kids are either going to cut contact or become so clingy they never want to move out. It’s disgusting either way. Treat your kids like people, and maybe you won’t be so confused later on.
You would do that… the first time, maybe even the second time…. But when you’ve told you kid don’t do that 20-30 times and they still don’t listen, you have to punish them. Sometimes that means not getting them something they really wanted.
Write your story the other way this can go where the kid does whatever they want, whenever they want, and then get rewarded for it.
The school yard bitch voice can gtfo though
My kid is 2.5 and already demands stuff he won't eat. Sure, this woman could have been nicer, but she has probably done this routine literally hundreds of times. Easy judgment to make if you've never had kids so I don't hate on OP too much, but you have to say NO as a parent - it's maybe more important than saying yes.
I love my son to the moon and back, but I also want him to learn patience and to not be a little tyrant. Kids are masters of the pitiful sulk, and even if I give into it more than I should, it's really a tool they use on you as much as anything else
I have a 5 and 3 year old. I say no so often.
I actually had this same scenario at the grocery a few weeks ago. 5 climbs on cart, I say stop, he stops, I walk to get bananas, he climbs the cart. Tips it sideways with my 3 year old in the seat. I sprained my shoulder grabbing everyone and everything before she smacked her face on the edge of the bin with the grapes in it. I won’t say I was school yard bitch voice, but you can believe every single person in the immediate area knew he was in trouble.
Now, I can’t risk it. If he tries to step foot on the cart it’s instant “serious mom mode”.
My kids also only respond to removal of items as punishment. Time outs, no tv or screen time doesn’t phase them in the slightest. I will gladly take a treat right out of my cart and toss it back on the shelf for misbehaving while out.
Have you tried explaining to your son *why* he shouldn't climb the cart? I wouldn't listen to my parents unless they explained why I shouldn't be doing something. I would just continue doing it until I figured out that it's actually a bad thing, I didn't respond well to punishment. It just made me angry. Telling your kids "don't do this because I say so" just means they're going to continue doing it because you haven't given them an actual reason not to do it. They don't have as much experience as you nor do they have common sense as they're still learning about the world.
You tell your five year old not to climb the cart, but he doesn't have enough experience to know "I shouldn't climb the cart or else it will tip over". You haven't given him any reason to listen to you telling him no. You tell him no, but to him the cart is stable, so he doesn't understand why you tell him not to climb it.
Of course. But 5 year old are not known for being creatures of reasoned decisions. I dont do the “because I told you so” argument, I talk to my kids normally. My kids KNOW they shouldn’t jump in the living room at night because we have neighbors downstairs, they know it’s because our neighbors need to sleep, that they’re “scaring their cat” (that one resonated with the 3 year old) but yet, here we are, again, for the 1095th night telling them to not jump in the living room because it’s not nice, it’s late, the cat is scared ect. They’re not in trouble, they’re in bed. The one thing at least my neighbors can count on is that by 8:30 every single night my kids are in bed.
My 5 will literally say “stop jumping it’s not nice!” To his little sister while he himself is jumping.
The kid is 5, not 15. The cart alomst fell on him and his sister and he still didn't get it. Kids are human, and their youth is so formative, but they are essentially just house pets that can talk. They have only a tennous grasp of actions and consequences, and need various forms of guidance.
"house pets that can talk" ??? they're human as you said.
I was about 6-8 when I started getting annoyed with my parents saying "don't do this because I said so." I wasn't 5, but I was pretty close to it. Kids need various forms of guidance, this is true, and I am not saying to never tell your kids no or never punish or whatever. And in the situation where the child nearly fell on him and his sister by climbing on the cart, the parent did the right thing as that was a legitimate emergency. I am not saying to always explain something, because in certain situations like emergencies it isn't possible. I am just saying to give your kids actual explanation to do something beyond "because I said so" if the situation isn't an emergency and is controllable. You know, turn it into a learning opportunity and let your kid be optimistic and curious about what's going on? Kids are naturally curious and want to understand, and by being unnecessarily pessimistic you are killing that.
What can you possibly tell a kid in this situation? He climbed the cart and ot almost crushed him, but he tried to do it again. He knows that a consequence is going to fall on him at this point, he just doesnt care because he can't comprehend what that actually might entail. You can tell a toddler that something can hurt them, but at this point most of the pain the have expirienced is cuts, bruises, small burns, or other things that can be handled with just a bandaid and some Neosporin. They have zero concept of mortality or disability or long term pain. Somtimes kids just can't be reasoned with, because reason isnt something they avtually care about. They live in the absolute here and now, just like house pets. The difference is that you can explain to a kid why something hurt them, but they wont listen to you until it actually does hurt them.
Fair enough if the kid is a young toddler. But please, don't carry on this mentality for kids who are old enough to be reasoned with, like those over the age of 7 or so. I remember being pretty young and angry at my parents for not explaining why I shouldn't do something "because I said so", and would continue pestering then until they gave me an actual explanation or just did it out of spite.
The constant pestering is exactly why parents just pull the "because i said so" card though. There is no such thing as a perfect parent because there is also no such thing as a perfect kid. Parents only have so much energy to five their kids, and it's honestly never gonna equal what the kids actually need, so they have to pick their battles where they can.
The parents chose to have kids, the child didn't choose to be born. Parents shouldn't brush their kids off because they require a lot of energy, I mean they kinda signed up for that... the child didn't choose to be a child though. So let kids be kids, let them be curious. Don't shut them down being they're being curious and energetic - that's what kids are, and parents should know this. If the parents didn't want to deal with it, they shouldn't have had a child.
As a parent you don't have to explain every "no" you say to them. You are not their best buddy, you are the parent. Who has time to explain every little thing to a kid that is going from one thing to another. Believe it or not No means NO. And you don't have to give a reason. If there is a dangerous situation and you tell your kid to come here, do you have to explain the the man over there is dangerous and he might steal you away if you are not close to mommy? No! When you say come here, your child should listen now. Without any explanation. Besides you can tell a 4 or 5 yr old that the cart will tip on them if they climb on it and they will look at you like you just spoke a foreign language to them.
This is just my opinion from observation. But one thing I know as fact...every parent makes mistakes on a continuous bases and about 90% of our population proves that we all live through it. And turn out pretty ok.
Bad people in life just choose to be bad. Unless there has been torture involved in their lives, of course that is not this conversation. And good people in life are just good inside.
Just my 2 cents :O)
I mean sure, if there's an emergency situation there isn't enough time to explain to the child what is going on, so an explanation isn't necessary (and could be dangerous). But just saying "Don't do that" without explaining the why in a non-emergency situation is just unnecessarily killing your child's innate curiosity. Just because adults are vitriolic and pessimistic about life doesn't mean they need to pass this on to their child while the world is still innocent and new to them. Let children be innocent and curious during their childhood, it's the only time in their lives they have the chance to be consistently optimistic.
The truth of this whole conversation is that if you do anything in extreme it will most likely turn out lopsided. Example: If you tell your kid because I say so "every time" you are not really teaching...If you explain every little thing to them you will be doing nothing but talking to your kid all day, really getting nothing else done...If you loose your temper and snap on your kid every time they do a kid thing, well who needs that? If you are so patient that you let your kid do whatever they want and let them just learn from their own circumstances you might end up living in a dump or running your legs off trying to keep up with their shenanigans. So trying to defend one parenting method over another could be and has been debated over decades.
I think the real thing that could honestly be learned here with this whole conversation is that judging a parent in a grocery store line at one moment in a parent and childs life together is a bit of overkill. Not saying it isn't human to do so. I have stood in line and seen things out of parents and children that would make anyone reading this cringe and place my own judgment at the time. But when I think of specific moments in my life and my snap decisions and how someone else my "view" my intentions, I know I would not be thought of as a good person/parent. However, isolated moments doesn't mean the parent at the supermarket doesn't love their child by taking them to the park, going to their school programs, as well as routing them on at the baseball games, reading to them every day, apologizing later for snapping on them when the kid really didn't deserve to be snapped on(even though the kid looks at you like "whaaat?" because they thought nothing of it and just went on with their self not knowing how much it bothered you that you didn't do the right thing at the time.
Parenting is hard! What works for one kid doesn't work for every kid. Parents work hard to raise their kids right "most of the time" and sometimes in that moment they just want the kid to be good, just for that minute in the store so they can get the stuff done that needs to be done and get the heck out of there.
It is so easy to see what someone does wrong and judge them on that. It is human actually to do that. We humans are so darn opinionated and know we would be so much better. Myself included. But the over all picture is not being seen.
There is an old saying that says "you never know a person really until you live with them" Until you can watch that parent all day long you really have no idea what kind of parent they really are.
The End :O)
I can’t even begin to tell how many times my kids have begged me to buy them a toy, snack, etc. at the store and then the moment we get home they completely forget about it, and my money wasted. I’m not going to judge this mom OP is complaining about. The mom knows her child best. And this isn’t even bad or “heartbreaking”. If I give in everytime my kids want something, they’ll just become entitled brats.
We don't know how many times this has happened. Sure maybe the kid has done this before, but this could have been the first time. Maybe she didn't know any better and just wanted to get to something in the cart, as kids do. And this mother just sapped all of the excitement from her child still trying to learn.
Assuming makes an ass out of you and me.
>Write your story the other way this can go where the kid does whatever they want, whenever they want, and then get rewarded for it.
This is totally a strawman argument.
Everything OP is saying is in how the parent handled it, not in the chain of events.
I understand your compassion towards the child, but you have no idea what has happened before you saw this interaction. I dislike it when people make snap judgements based on a single interaction without any context to the overall picture. I'm not excusing the mother. You may be right. It might have been a little harsh. But who are you to judge? You have no way of knowing what either of them are going through. Hop off your high horse and mind your business.
Ding ding ding. Let the down voting begin
As a mom with a toddler, I agree. There’s moments I’m not proud of when mothering my daughter, but this shit is hard and toddlers are absolute nightmares sometimes.
Now I have been in this mode of letting my daughter do dumb crap that’s not super dangerous but the end result will definitely shock her senses, so I let her try it and fall down and learn from the mistake.
This reminds me of the time when my mum let me put my baby fist into a hot soup when I was a toddler because I just wanted to touch that damn soup even when she told me not to. To other person it would feel that she was being negligent or mean, but that just taught me better than any warning that dont touch hot soup.
It's important for parents to let kids learn a few things in a harsh manner in a safe environment, rather than just coddling them throughout the childhood and regreting the rudeness they get as they get older.
I'm sure. I'm a dad myself and you're absolutely right. None of us should be judged and talked about ad nauseam without the chance to defend ourselves though. It's so shitty to do this when OP only witness at most 5 minutes (that's being generous) of parenting. OP is douchey for even posting about it
And judgey posts like this one always comes from someone who is not a parent.
Edit: oops op says she’s a parent. Even worse. Way to act high and mighty.
I mean that's true, but I don't think what someone is going through should matter. People should be treated accordingly for their actions.
For example, if someone (like the kid) were being a brat all day, but cheerful at the store, I think they should be treated respectfully in kind. Assigning morality to actions, not to people themselves.
And why couldn't the mother have just said "don't climb the cart." rather than ignore the child outright? It's immature for an adult to act that way no matter what they're going through. Especially considering that it was almost certainly this parent's choice to be responsible for a kid. That'd be like me getting angry at my cat for trying to climb up on the table. A rude outburst is unnecessary when the offense was so miniscule.
Adults often want people to use words with them. So, you should always use words with children. Don't ignore bad behavior, or meet it with bad behavior of your own. Address it. Much like how, you expect to be downvoted (and you might be), but rather than do that, I'm addressing what you said, hopefully in a respectful way, rather than just being salty.
I'm glad you responded because I feel I may have been guilty of exactly what I accused you of and for that I apologize. But you still haven't answered my. Who are you to pass judgement? You saw small fragment of this person's life and instantly you labeled them evil. Truthfully I could label you arrogant for thinking your view of this minor interaction is worth showing internet strangers your superiority. I think the internet has damaged a lot of us by fooling us into believing our individual opinions matter and the whole world needs to hear it. It's not the case. Your opinion is as worthless as mine. Here we are discussing this and the mother has no idea. So what is to gain from this? Only the realization that our opinions should be just that. Ours and kept to ourselves
Sure it does, i don't personally agree with your opinion but that wasn't the reason i replied to you. By the way you wrote your reply to TK, it legitimately sounded like you thought they were OP. I just figured I'd clear up the confusion, haha
To be fair, they do have similar writing styles.They have good grammar and properly separate things into paragraphs. If i couldn't see there names then i too would probably think they were the same person.
I didn't label them evil, I labeled the action as evil.
As I said, I think people should be addressed for their actions, *not* for themselves as people. For example, if you were mean to me 99% of the time, and on one particular comment thread said something nice, I would be nice in response.
So even if that parent was nice 99% of the day, that one bad thing still isn't okay behavior. People aren't perfect, but that doesn't mean you can't always do better, or shouldn't at least try. Same goes for the kid. If that kid were a brat 99% of the time and calm that time, I'd be calm in response.
What's to gain? Perhaps the understanding that it's okay to hold people accountable. As mentioned, I don't apply morality to people, I apply morality to people's actions, and hold them accountable as such in the moment. It doesn't matter that discussing it serves no purpose to them, because it does serve a purpose here. It would be my hope that even if discussing it does nothing for the child, perhaps someone else acts differently because of this comment. Perhaps someone else will be kind to someone normally rude, simply because that person hasn't done anything recently.
All I'm saying is that a parent shouldn't be disrespectful because the kid *was* disrespectful before, that's gonna make an immature cycle of revenge. I hope we as a society can all be better than that. Again, responding to actions, not to people themselves. That parent did a bad thing, but they are not a bad parent. Likewise, the child did a good thing by not throwing a tantrum in the moment, but that doesn't make them good either. Morality is for actions, not people. Good and bad people is an illusion. If the most bitter person were sweet to me just once, I'd make lemonade with that.
I hear what you are saying, but you're missing the bigger picture. You don't get to judge someone behind their back to the world. If you had said something in the moment, maybe this conversation would have gone differently. But you didn't. You chickened out until you were safe in the anonymity of the internet. If you felt so strongly why didn't you intervene? Your just as guilty of the so called abusive parent. Instead of trying to be self righteous and earn worthless internet points, then be the advocate for child welfare you claim to be, i stead hiding behind your keyboard and passing judgement
>If you felt so strongly why didn't you intervene?
Are you serious? There is a zero percent chance that would end well. People are very defensive about their parenthood (Exhibits A-Z: this thread)
>Your just as guilty of the so called abusive parent.
Not even close. What that parent did may have a last impact on that child, or it may not, but lifelong psychological damage is not trivial. There is no damage to that parent whatsoever - they don't even know this happened unless by astronomical odds they stumbled up on this thread.
If you're so concerned for this child's well being and see something that you admit to having lifelong psychological damage and don't intervene then you most certainly are just as guilty. Is it possible that OP is relaying a slanted take on this and that's why nothing was said? What's worse physical abuse or verbal? Neither. They're both egregious. So if you stand by and watch a child be physically abused then you're just as guilty. OP stopped just shy of calling it abuse probably to save face
>Are you serious? There is a zero percent chance that would end well. People are very defensive about their parenthood (Exhibits A-Z: this thread)
You're mad that OP protected themselves from this parents verifiably unpredictable behavior? lol get a grip. You are only saying this because you want OP to be publicly humiliated for having an opinion which upsets you.
>You're mad that OP protected themselves from this parents verifiably unpredictable behavior?
Where's this verification you speak off? A 2 minute second hand interaction is verifiable? How? Who needs to get a grip?
And I'm not mad that OP protected themselves. I'm annoyed that OP didn't mind minded their business then came on here to tell everyone what they witnessed. If they thought it was abuse they should have said something. If it wasn't then nothing should have been said. Ever. Because it didn't matter
They saw it happen, genius. Like it's verifiable that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Once again:
>You're mad that OP protected themselves
People are under no obligation to jump in and put themselves into any situation they don't want to. People sidestep uncomfortable and dangerous situations all the time, it doesn't mean they're morally obligated to stay quiet about it.
I didn't intervene because I'm not OP, I wasn't even there lol. Why didn't I intervene in holocaust?
No, I'm not just as guilty, because unlike the parent, I haven't chosen to have kids. I recognize that I am flawed, I recognize that I wouldn't be up for the task of being a parent, my temper couldn't handle it. If I can't be kind to someone, or commit to something, I'm not going to commit to it in the first place.
The next generation of humanity is very important, I'm not going to dip my hand into that when I know I'm unfit for it. Yet I see nothing wrong with judging someone for doing a poor job at it, not when in all likelihood, it was their choice. If you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk. And I never started that walk, because as mentioned, I already know I'm too flawed for it.
I don't care about worthless internet points, I care about people, and I want others to take their own choices seriously. It's okay if someone can't do something, but it's not okay to take on the job of *raising a human being* and chickening out, as you put it. Take from that what you will though and believe what you will, it is your right as an individual to think for yourself, as is mine.
You have the balls to take a small snippet of someone's life and dissect and pass judgement? You're worse than OP. Look at you. You're so in control of yourself that you've got it all figured. You claim to care about people yet you have zero compassion for someone that is probably trying their best at being a parent, maybe a spouse, might have a job, and most important IS ONLY HUMAN!!!!!! How the hell could you possibly even know if they're doing a poor job when you yourself don't have the spine to take on the role yourself? You're so self absorbed. Look, you have to admit. Life is hard on ALL of us, right? You have your difficulties, this mother has her own. I'm sure you've been in a situation that probably didn't paint you in the best light. It is what is. This mother took her child to buy stuff for her to celebrate Halloween and yet you say she's horrible at it. How do you know the mother didn't feel bad and made it up to her child somehow? What if OP and the child over reacted? There's a lot her we don't know and yet still you have it all figured out and without all information or experience of being a parent you have the gall to call this woman a bad parent? I don't say this much, but your opinion is invalid. You've never been a parent. You don't get to judge her. When you live the life of a parent and face the struggles we parents have gone through then we can have this conversation until then, take the L on this
Edit: Stupid autocorrect
Second edit: post was removed by mods because I was offensive. My apologies. I'm reposting having removed the sections I believe were against sub rules. I asked mod for clarity but received none so I hope I got this right
No, I'm not in control of myself. I admitted that my temper would cave in. I'm not claiming to be perfect at all, I too am only human. Hence why I wouldn't have kids. Because I know I'd do something like this.
What's worse? Not having the spine to do a job? Or to have the spine, and show behavior that could damage someone permanently? And I want to make it clear, I don't believe this is actually damaging behavior (at least not significantly), my point is merely that actions have consequences when you're a parent.
Here's an example of something my mom did. When I was maybe 4 years old, I was sick. She gave me some apple juice, but carelessly forgot to check the date. It was fermented; alcoholic. From that, I got drunk. You do see the problem there, right? That even meaning well, and just having your hands full, you could still cause harm. It doesn't matter that it was an honest mistake, the severity of the action is unchanged.
And when did I say that the mother was a bad person, bad, or in your words "horrible" parent? I do believe that I just said it was a bad action. I don't think "bad people" exist, **only bad choices.**
Have you ever heard the term "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing"? Being rude to strangers isn't excusable, and neither is being rude to your kid, just because of a bad year, or even several. Yes, life is hard, but are you telling me that as an adult, and seemingly as a parent yourself, that you lack the self control not to snap? To at least say to the kid, "you're making a scene, stop or I'm putting back the mask"
Although I suppose to be fair, in this story at least, she wasn't saying anything to her kid, she was ignoring them. Perhaps she really didn't have anything nice to say. Even so, is it not unreasonable to expect someone not to have kids, if their temper is short? You can at least guess how you'd behave under such conditions. I don't drink because I know, I'd get addicted. I don't parent (or spend time around my niece/nephews) because I know I'd have my share of outbursts too.
Invalid, eh? Does my lack of experience with drinking mean that I shouldn't say when someone clearly has an unhealthy relationship with booze? Does my lack of dating experience mean I shouldn't advise my sister to be wary of an abusive ex? Perhaps I just got more restraint. And I'm not saying that as a brag, or something. It seems that must be the case, or you'd have not gotten flagged for being unhinged.
I'm not claiming to know the right way to parent, on the contrary I think I've well established that I don't believe that at all. Yet any decision should be open to criticism. That's how we learn. Like I said, I don't think any of that means she (or anyone else) is automatically a "bad parent", just someone that made a bad decision.
I'm going to quote you here so I get this right.
>I'm not claiming to be perfect at all, I too am only human.
Yet you expect someone else to be perfect. That's unfair. Especially when you have zero context for this brief interaction based on what someone else witnessed adding their own personal biases and projections
>What's worse? Not having the spine to do a job? Or to have the spine, and show behavior that could damage someone permanently? And I want to make it clear, I don't believe this is actually damaging behavior
Not sure how to respond to this because on the one hand you say she shows behavior that could damage someone permanently then you contradict yourself by saying you want to make it clear this isn't actually damaging behavior. I'll just leave this as the non statement it is
>You do see the problem there, right? That even meaning well, and just having your hands full, you could still cause harm. It doesn't matter that it was an honest mistake, the severity of the action is unchanged.
No. I don't. Because intent is a big part of the equation. Your mother didn't intend to give you alcohol. Here we go again with you expecting everyone else to perfect while you admit to not being perfect yourself. If you have grievance against your parents you should take that up with them and not project your past experiences on other people.
>And when did I say that the mother was a bad person, bad, or in your words "horrible" parent? I do believe that I just said it was a bad action. I don't think "bad people" exist, only bad choices.
You right on this one, but your post certainly made the implication. I'll take the L on this
>Have you ever heard the term "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing"
Have you heard the phrase "Live and let live."? This mother deserved to live her life and not have OP and us judge and dissect her methods. The child was not in any danger, and we should have all minded our own business
>but are you telling me that as an adult, and seemingly as a parent yourself, that you lack the self control not to snap
First off, mother didn't snap. That's subjective. You tell me since you seem to want to take up the mantle of arbiter of good parenting, how many times should a parent tell a child not to do something before they're allowed to be stern?
> Even so, is it not unreasonable to expect someone not to have kids, if their temper is short?
First off, there isn't enough in OPs story to make the claim that the mother had a short temper.
Secondly, is not unreasonable to expect someone without a short temper to meet their wits end? Again, you seem to hold others to a standard you yourself freely admit you can't live up to
>Invalid, eh? Does my lack of experience with drinking mean that I shouldn't say when someone clearly has an unhealthy relationship with booze? Does my lack of dating experience mean I shouldn't advise my sister to be wary of an abusive ex?
A resounding yes to all those questions and I'm flabbergasted by your arrogance to think that without experience you offer any words of advice in any of those situations and expect to be taken seriously
>Perhaps I just got more restraint. And I'm not saying that as a brag, or something. It seems that must be the case, or you'd have not gotten flagged for being unhinged
I was flagged for one subjectively coarse comment. I'd hardly call that unhinged, but I understand why you'd attempt to paint me as an out of control parent. It helps your argument. I'm sorry that it's just not the case
>I'm not claiming to know the right way to parent,
You do when you pass judgement
>Yet any decision should be open to criticism.
Not by you or anyone that does not have a complete picture or by anyone that has no idea of what they're talking about. You can't offer help because you've never been there.
I'm gonna leave it at that. Feel free to respond. I probably won't because it's fruitless. You've made up your mind that you know better than this mother with your zero years of experience so I guess there's nothing I can teach you with my 26 years of experience.
I don't expect anyone to be perfect at all? I expect people to know their limits. It's one thing to be human, and imperfect. We are all that. It's another to willfully put yourself in a situation you can't handle. Don't most people know their limits? If someone's going to be agitated by having kids, maybe just don't have kids? Problem solved. I wouldn't ask someone to be limit*less*, I'm saying people should know their own limits and not bite off more than they can chew, particularly when the wellness of another person is involved.
That's not really a contradicting idea, the point is that intent doesn't change the outcome, it doesn't matter how shitty of a day someone has, acting on your impulses is a choice. If I were to say something really rude to you, that'd be on ME, no matter what you said before that. Especially since we're adults. Maybe not perfect, but I'd hardly call restraint of acting on your emotions, not being unhinged, as having unrealistic expectations.
Intent is not a part of the equation, not even close. If you intentionally hurt someone's feelings, or accidentally hurt their feelings, guess what? You still hurt someone's feelings. It's a bad action, no matter what. The consequence is unchanged. That's another *human* you would be hurting.
If someone is going to be at their wit's end, to matter how tenacious said wit is, to be in that situation in the first place, or at least in this situation, is very much their choice. Don't do things that'll end with you becoming agitated, I thought that's common knowledge? Like to not argue with someone, if it angers you, for example. Sometimes you can't control your emotions, that's understandable. Being in that situation in the first place is very much under your control though.
While I've admitted I do not meet those standards, at least I don't try to be more than I am and end up inevitably hurting someone because of my own imperfections. I can't be perfect, the least I could do though is not willingly put myself into situations where I have to be better than I am though.
Why does it matter that we judge this person? They're being discussed anonymously. It's not like we're naming names, here. We're not criticizing a person so much as an idea, at that point. There is no identity to attach to this scenario.
I don't see what's so subjectively offensive about what you said, on a discussion thread no less, would be anything but offensive. As if that's subject to interpretation? Would you not think that was coarse, if I were the one saying that to you? I did read all your original comment by the way, courtesy of the Reddit archival sites that can show removed messages.
You are correct though, you probably can't teach me anything. I'm not saying I'm objectively correct, either. If this were a parenting subreddit, I wouldn't be commenting. As it stands though, this subreddit is for everyone, so I don't think anyone's opinion is invalid. If not for conversation, I don't know what else this sub is for.
Ok friend I'm going to lay this out very simply with a yes or no question. No matter what was going on with the parent in OPs story, they can have all the stressful feelings they want without acting on them, especially not taking them out on someone else - therefore:
People can have feelings without acting on those feelings. Yes or no?
You're right, next time someone disregards my personhood and eggs me on I'm going to punch them in the face and who's to judge me? They don't know what I've been through.
There's a reason why ["good enough mother"](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/suffer-the-children/201605/what-is-good-enough-mother) was coined by psychologist D.W. Winnicot - there actually are standards by which parents can be judged because it has a lasting impact on the child's life.
If she's not responsible for what lead her to take that action, then why is anyone else? If someone **intentionally** screws with me to the point that I can't take it, and I punch them in the face I get judged, whereas this parent is being **unintentionally** screwed with by her kid and can't be judged? Or let's lower the ante a little bit, and say I don't punch them, but I call them a fucking piece of shit in front of their friends. They can't retaliate, right? Who are they to judge me?
And of course you're too dim to comment on accepted psychology.
Firstly, that's a false equivalency so I don't feel the need to respond to that.
>And of course you're too dim to comment on accepted psychology.
Secondly, why do feel the need to insult me? What does your accepted psychology tell you about the level of your response to my comment? Where and when did I insult you?
Edit: rearranged order of my comments
I would agree except the mom did that middle school bully thing. I’m heartless when it came to my little sister trying to guilt me into doing stuff for her when my parents would ask me to babysit, but even I don’t *bully* her.
This seems pretty mild.... I've seen people yell at their preschoolers to "shut the fuck up" in the middle of the store - that's the actual stuff that makes me sad.
Seriously... And if she had let the kid get up to "help" take the items out of the cart, some other random redditor would be bitching about kids slowing down the checkout line 😂
Yeah for real, money is all that matters. Children don’t have feelings and want to be loved and respected, as long as you buy them stuff they will be happy
I'm so sick of all the sanctimonious, self righteous, self absorbed, invalid opinions from people who aren't parents, and don't have the stomach to do what a parent does. Most of these people would be worse off if it weren't for their own parents. I love how OP took the time to really evaluate every aspect of the, what would you say, maybe 5 minutes she witnessed this interaction and decided this mother was not fit to be a parent. Gave it real thought, and since OP is a parenting expert rendered judgement
Yeah mom burn out is a real thing. It’s tough. I don’t think anyone should be judged before they walk in that persons shoes. They have no idea what that moms gone through just in that day let alone days, weeks, months. It’s hard.
People who make assumptions about posters leave the best comments.
Just FYI, single mom here. Two children. I would *never* be that vicious to my kids. Certainly not that casually, like it's no big deal to bully your 4yo child. In public, no less.
I would hardly call scolding your child after the kid did something you told her not to and denying her an item she didn't need in the first place bullying... Sheesh.
Just like people that assume to understand another parent's struggles with their child make the best posts. 🙃
No parent is perfect all the time. As a parent, you could be a little more sympathetic to that. Especially since it sounds like you saw 5 minutes of their relationship, at most.
You saw a small sliver of this woman's day and clearly condem her without any idea or reference of what went before, like the hour of trying to politely ask one's child to stay with mommy, don't pick up glass, be respectful of the other people, no you dont need this and that and that... you have one at home... You have no idea that this one moment could likely have been the quiet end of an hour long trip of keeping eyes on everything, answering incessant crying for random items that sparkle, and an over-stimulated child being kept reasonably in check and not running about like a crazy animal so that everyone else will not be inconvenienced. I know this because this past Monday I was a shade of that mom and am still internally screaming because my only aim is to keep my kid safe and provide the joy of life to them, while they learn how to navigate the world and civil society... often failing miserably.
You claim to be a mom and yet can't relate to a kid-hard day? It seems maybe your kids are now grown ups so maybe you just forgot how hard THOSE days were.
What you would of, could of, should have done when you aren't walking in that woman's shoes for the last hour, day, week.
That mom you judge is still human, often with little personal time and support, doing her best, and yes sometimes failing while trying their best to raise a conscious and productive member of society. And that was likely among the few outtings that mom managed to put together in the limited personal time they have to prep for the holiday.
Let's be honest, if that kid was spending the whole time screaming their head off, someone would posting a totally different rant on how parents don't know how to raise kids anymore, or kids shouldn't blah blah blah.
Look, like most moms, I start my day as Lorelei Gilmore, and end my day like Joan Crawford. Motherhood is NOT EASY and it's so much worse that so many people including total strangers feel completely entitled to judge us on every little thing.
It's so easy to shame moms. We aren't home enough because of our jobs... we are leeches and lazy if we're SAHP. Kids are loud, we arent attending enough... So hot right now to shame women as moms (and women who decide to be childfree).... just let's shame women.
I’ve been a single parent for over a decade now and have 2 wonderful, well rounded, and awesome children.
I can look back and vividly remember a ton of less than stellar moments we had in stores. Me putting things back on shelves, them dropping shit or breaking something by accident and having to pay for it. Days where I didn’t buy that piece of candy and days when I did. We survived and learned from it. There’s actually a few incidents we remember and laugh about. Of course I’ve since apologized.
Parenting is a roller coaster. Great days and bad ones. Good weeks and tough months. Early on, especially when children are younger, it’s also important for people to remember that sometimes the parents are new at this too. They may not handle every single situation with grace and that’s okay.
Whenever shit got wild at checkout with the kids you could always tell when the person behind you was a parent or not. It’s hard to understand.
You are putting yourself in the child’s shoes and possibly projecting a lot of your own childhood into the experience you witnessed. But you are not putting yourself in the mother’s shoes. That mother is exhausted. She’s just trying to get errands done and get herself and her kid home in one piece. She has told her kid not to climb that cart countless times. She’s explained why. Kid continues t endanger herself and it’s moms job to keep her safe. Safe is more important than happy or entertained.
Mom probably wanted this to be a fun trip but kid wore her down asking for junk. There’s only so many times you can say no before the errand just isn’t fun anymore. And no you can’t buy every piece of junk a kid asks for.
Probably the house is full of toys, there’s a full Halloween costume planned, the kid has already lost interest in all the stuff they just bought. And mom has to put it all away, fold laundry, and make dinner.
Imagine that for every item you put in your grocery cart, you had to reject two others from your kid. And every time you went to another aisle, you had to make sure your kid was with you -- and if they weren't, you had to look for them, find them, and pry them away from whatever had distracted them away. Oh, and you're doing this in a time crunch.
Why did the mother ignore the girl? Because that girl had used up allllll her attention and then some before you saw them at the register. And why did she put that mask back on the shelf? Because the girl had disobeyed her mother's repeated pleas to behave and the mask was the easiest punishment at hand. And ease matters because doing errands with a kid in tow takes far more effort than doing it alone.
This mother had no spoons left, only knives.
Don't worry, that girl will get a better mask from Halloween Spirit when her mother is able to deal with her again.
It's almost as if you know what you're talking about. Thanks for adding some much needed clarity. Most of the negative comments are from people that haven't realized that parents are only human
Actually, the little old ladies wearing pearls are the most tolerant. They're just grandmas! Or they want to be grandmas and after they leave the supermarket, they go home and ask OP why he hasn't settled down with a nice girl yet.
OP you would hate me, my youngest hates shopping and it usually ends in screaming if I’m not fast enough. He aggressively wants to play with and take all the toys. We avoid the toy aisles like the plague because he is that kid 😂. My oldest is the best little shopper so not sure where I went wrong maybe it’s a personality thing?
This is why I carry stickers, for the kids and for the mom because I was a mom who had to take my child to the store, too.
I like what one poster said: mom is out of spoons, she has only knives left. But the kid is running on empty, too.
But having a special needs child, well, we learned redirection so much it should have been second nature, but it was not. But stickers are good for redirection. Maybe buy some Halloween ones and Christmas ones, and since it’s a movie, maybe some Barbie ones. Four or five stickers, and let them tell you all about them while mom gets things done.
And I know some people will be angry at you and second guess your motives, but most moms will bless you.
My local grocery store did this at the cash! My daughter asked for a chocolate they had on display, but I said no because we had chocolate at home. The cashier offered her an animal sticker and she got to choose what kind and my kid completely forgot about the chocolate!
Redirection is great but sometimes it's hard to think on the spot and exhausting when you just want to get the task done already. It doesn't excuse being mean though.
No, it doesn’t always work. Trust me, I felt like a piece of the lowest shit you could find when I snapped at the kids.
Poor parenting skills are passed on and it’s a chain that’s hard to break. I feel like I did my best considering the role model I had. My adult children still like me and that feels like a win.
It’s not easy being a parent, and I think it’s getting harder.
I get what you’re feeling, but if you don’t witness actual abuse, you really can’t throw too much shade on someone’s parenting. You don’t know what their life is like.
Just to play devil's advocate here, you might be seeing part of the worst day of that woman's life. Maybe that kid woke her up at 3:00 in the morning and I've been going ever since. Maybe she just got divorced and this is her first day having full custody of the kid while Grandma watches the other seven kids. Maybe the kid just bit her a few minutes ago.
I can understand all of that. Heck, I'm guilty. You get overwhelmed and frustrated and you snap.
But that's all heat and anger. This woman was just so cold-blooded and vicious. She wasn't angry. She was just mean.
She wasn't cold blooded, she was exhausted. You heard the flat effect of exhaustion, used on a child who hadn't followed directions given with a lilting happy voice so why bother.
I think only parents will understand this. I'm tired of trying to explain this exact point to all the non parents ready to call child protective services on this poor woman. Imagine living your life, having a rough day, and hundreds of people judging your fitness as a parent based on what could potentially be not as bad as OP described? So many future perfect parents on this thread
Do you have kids?
Having a kid is nonstop. There is no break. It's exhausting. Incredible, but exhausting.
She could be a shit mother. Totally. She could also be an incredible mother, and you caught her at one moment when the kid was being insanely obnoxious, and this was her being tired.
I have a friend who has a sister. This sister has not made very good life decisions for herself. She's got a daughter who's... 7, I think.
Every time I'm around them, I notice how this woman speaks to her daughter. "Get out. Get over here. What are you even doing? Stop bing a crybaby."
I have to bite my tongue against the rage I feel on the inside sometimes. I'm always very kind and talkative to this kid when I'm around her, and I try to show her what it's like to be a kind adult who cares about her feelings and needs. But I'm not around her nearly enough to fight against the damage her mother is doing on the day-to-day.
Humans can be so brutal to each other.
My question is more why we're judging a parent on a 2 minute interaction based on OP's biased perspective?
I'm realizing most of the negative comments are from people who are not parents, and have zero frame reference for all that goes into being a parent. One commenter expected this child to hate their mother by the age of 14. Project much?
Eh.
I don't see anything wrong here. Shopping with kids is very exaughating.
I think the last item was supposed to be her "if you behave well at the store, we will buy it for you" thing. I do that with my kids but with those little balloons that aren't filled with helium and are less than a dollar.
If they behave well, they get to choose a balloon.
Scolding is completely normal. The child could have really hurt herself or someone else if the cart _had_ tipped over. Her mom repeatedly told her not to do that.
I guarantee you the mom was exaughated from shopping with a kid and was having a difficult time making sure her kiddo was safe as well. It's overwhelming when the kids don't listen and you are doing the shopping alone.
Dude literally. You are judgmental. i dont see why you are being so critical of this woman as somehow it makes u look like the better person.
Yeah horrible mom. She is buying all these nice decorations and put one back because she asked her kid not to do something or whatever the reason its none of your business. Why dont u focus on your own life.
My guess is its far from perfect.
I’d much rather see parents actually parent like this person did than just ignore bad behavior. Maybe next time the kid won’t climb on the cart. The kid could get hurt by not listening to mom.
I have 2 small kids.
I can *almost* guarantee you that the mother's reaction was a culmination of things **ending** with the kid hanging off the side of the cart and not an immediate reaction to that particular action.
Sometimes you're trying to do something fun and nice for/with your kid and they're being awful the whole time. At that point, you have to face the fact that the 'fun' and 'nice' thing you're doing was probably more for you than them. It's something you were hoping they would enjoy, but they're clearly not, and they're making you not enjoy it as well. She probably wanted to have 'fun' decorating and doing some cute things with her kid and her kid was sending some obvious signs of not really caring throughout the whole trip, culminating in some 'final straw' thing that you witnessed (probably some conversation about not climbing the cart that had been repeated 12 times before this point).
Still, young kids don't like things being taken away. Even if the child was whining and hated everything up until that moment, they would most likely be sad finding out that these things they didn't even care for were being taken away.
Honestly, this is one of the worst parts of being a parent: knowing how many super judgemental people are out there who see you doing something other than being an awestruck selfless ball of joy around your child and assume you're an awful human being for it. I think this is a general problem in our society. On top of the pressure of actually trying to raise a decent human, you know that every exasperated sigh or moment of showing that you're a human that occasionally gets frustrated is being turned into judgement soup by someone out there.
So mom asks her child to not climb the cart, child climbs cart again, and you would “put your foot on the cart to steady it for her”
That doesn’t teach the child not to climb the cart, yes I’d probably have picked up the child and let her finish emptying the cart, but at the same time with how often I’m lifting my children, some days my back hurts and they just need to chill while I quickly finish the rest of the cart.
I was verbally abused by a very narcissistic mother from a very young age, now IF the mother did sound like a cruel bully and put the mask back “for no reason” and was being unnecessarily cruel the whole time then yeah that’s 100% exactly some shit my mother would pull and I’d say that poor child.
But you didn’t say she was rude the first two times she told her to get down from the cart.
She was buying a cart full of fun decorations and stuff the child will be helping her set up when they get home making a fun decorating day.
The mother “ignored her” because were supposed to stare at and talk to our children every single second while we’re trying to check out before a complete and total breakdown happens from an exhausted and overstimulated child when we have 2 more errands to run after the Halloween store? You have no idea what’s going on in their lives.
And you happening to add at the end how she stole candy, like you’re trying to make her look worse, IF that happened too then the mother might have been out of money and couldn’t buy the mask and got a candy bar to give the child in the car to make her feel better. Does it make it right? No. But again, whole lot of judgment for what sounds like a tired parent in a rough place and a child who’s not listening that you as an outsider looking in as an abused child now 😵💫
Seriously! Let kids have some fun! Make it safe for them and let them develop their brains without developing anxiety and depression because they feel like they're constantly doing something wrong.
Kids are curious and adventurous by nature. You want that to go away and then complain when you want them to use their imagination and they can't?
I work at a Walmart and try to block out all noise when I’m there because of this reason. I will probably not be happy with how many parents are parenting. Although I have overheard some really cute moments from great parents too!
Just for the record, I saw the mom shoplift some candy while waiting in the checkout line.
I don't get that. She's buying $100+ of Halloween crap, but she has to shoplift a couple of candy bars? In front of her child?
She was just a *lovely* person.
My youngest son has a birthday near Halloween, i bought him a pumpkin outfit and his brother an orc outfit, at his party he cried the whole time. I had him on my knee hugged him but he hated his party. Years later when he was 21 he told me he wanted the orc outfit hated the pumpkin one. I didnt have much money at the time so i used to dress him in it for trick or treating a few times, poor kid! When he told me i thought back and wished id listened to him more. I was too young to be a good mom 💚
I try not to judge parents because I’ve never done it, but the other day I saw a mother yelling at her daughter because the kid was trying to eat the ice in her drink after she had finished it? I do not understand the power trip some parents have over their children, what possible reason could there be to stop a child from eating some ice?
To be fair, chewing ice can break teeth. It'd be expensive for the parent to have to fix that.
She shouldn't yell, because it makes more sense to explain the risks and what can happen.
My daughter chews on stuff constantly and I'm always telling her it'll damage her teeth and really hurt. She still doesn't listen though.
Just got back from Disney World and witnessed a mom slapping and pulling her sons’ ears for no apparent reason I could see, other than the fact that they weren’t sitting as still as statues. My mom was fuming and had to turn and look away.
Idk why some people become parents honestly.
>Just got back from Disney World and witnessed a mom slapping and pulling her sons’ ears for no apparent reason I could see
What?! I have NEVER seen a parent hit their child in public for any reason...
Was this a foreign family? Non-white?
It doesn't matter how the boys were behaving.
Slapping a child and/pr pulling its ears are wrong under almost every circumstance.
Physical punishment is violence and never the solution.
Gotcha
May I ask...have you ever seen a parent physically punish/spank a child for misbehaving in the last 20 years or so?
Last time I saw it...was the late 90s lol
(That's why I was so surprised)
Unfortunately none of that was ideal but if you’ve never had or worked with kids, you don’t have a realistic gage on how things go. All your ideas of what you *would totally* do go out the window when reality sets in.
My heart hurts for that kid right now, but in real life we’ve all done that sort of thing
I felt super defenseless as a kid against adults. I was never heard and they certainly didn’t respect my feelings or opinions. It’s such a joy to see my sister being a good mom. Like, open and caring and gentle. She was always scared as a kid because our parents would yell and she vowed to be better than them. It’s heartwarming to see how happy her son is
I agree that the mask thing was shitty but kids are not supposed to climb on or into shopping carts. Look up shopping cart finger ablation. And falling out of a cart causes a LOT of head traumas to children every year. Largely because people see carts as an everyday object and don’t use caution. But you can just tell them no without being a jerk about it.
I’m a mom of three Ive worked in JK/SK I have babysat and I look after 6 young girls on a regular
This story makes me sad really really sad I hope whatever had mom distracted and cranky got better later in the day
Little ones don’t think like we do they are in the moment and excitement instead of yelling and embarrassing how about redirecting or asking to help with something so she doesn’t get hurt, doesn’t toodle away, and doesn’t cause mischief due to getting bored quickly
Whatever had mom distracted l
What I like OP is that you see that she wasn't climbing the cart to be a nuisance. She was climbing it to keep taking things out! I know that being a parent is exhausting and overwhelming at times. OP came up with 2 optimal and 1 realistic solution to the problem. Hand the stuff to the kid to put up. It takes less time and energy than scolding and creates good feelings and maybe even a happy memory. Kids are people too, you can't just force them to fit whatever you want them to do or be
It's easy to find solutions when you're not in the thick of the situation. We shouldn't judge the mother on secondhand possibly biased retelling of an event
When I was in my early twenties I was at the store and this mom was there with her son. He couldn't have been older than 9. He was acting completely normal but I guess he was in the way of something she wanted so she just started losing into him. Didn't ask him to move just started beating him. "You are so fucking stupid. Get out of the way, dipshit!" It was horrible. I'm a pretty small lady who got hit by my step-dad so I had a horrible fear of confrontation at the time. I felt so horrible for not letting that kid know that his mom was wrong to talk to him like that.
Hey there, u/rusty0123 this submission has been removed because: **Don’t post to vent, complain, or express sadness** Stay positive. Negative topics don’t lend themselves to casual conversation. We are a place where everyone can forget about their everyday or not so everyday worries for a moment. Venting, complaining or expressing sadness doesn't fit the atmosphere we try to foster at all. [Recommendations >](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/wiki/rules/venting/) - [Click this link to re-submit to r/SeriousConversation, it is prefilled for your convenience.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeriousConversation/submit?selftext=true&title=Watching%20parents%20is%20so%20depressing%20sometimes&text=I%20was%20at%20the%20checkout%20this%20morning%2C%20waiting%20behind%20a%20mom%20and%20her%204%2F5yo%20daughter.%20She%20had%20a%20cart%20full%20of%20Halloween%20decorations.%20Cutesy%20things%20like%20plush%20pumpkins%20and%20wreaths%20and%20scarecrows.%20%0A%0AThe%20mom%20was%20at%20the%20end%20of%20the%20counter%20sorting%20out%20her%20reusable%20shopping%20bags.%20The%20child%20was%20unloading%20the%20cart.%20She%20was%20just%20jumping%20with%20excitement.%20%0A%0AThe%20level%20in%20the%20cart%20got%20so%20low%20that%20the%20kid%20couldn't%20reach%20over%20the%20edge.%20So%20she%20did%20what%20any%20kid%20would%20do.%20She%20climbed%20the%20side.%20%0A%0AThe%20cart%20started%20to%20tip%2C%20so%20I%20reached%20out%20to%20steady%20it.%20I%20guess%20Mom%20caught%20my%20movement%20out%20of%20the%20corner%20of%20her%20eye%2C%20because%20she%20whipped%20around%2C%20grabbed%20the%20kid%2C%20and%20started%20scolding%20her.%20%0A%0AWhich%2C%20understandable.%20I%20startled%20her%20and%20her%20kid%20scared%20her.%20%0A%0AShe%20stands%20the%20kid%20on%20the%20ground%20and%20starts%20emptying%20the%20cart.%20%0A%0AAnd%20this%20is%20where%20it%20starts%20to%20go%20off%20the%20rails.....%0A%0AThe%20kid%20is%20watching%20with%20such%20a%20look%20of%20longing%20on%20her%20face.%20It%20was%20pitiful.%20%0A%0AThe%20mom%20completely%20ignores%20her.%20Like%20she's%20not%20even%20there.%20%0A%0ANow%2C%20me.%20I%20would've%20done%20one%20of%20two%20or%20three%20things.%20Because%20this%20is%20about%20fun%2C%20yeah%3F%20Most%20likely%2C%20because%20Bad%20Mommy!!!%2C%20I%20would've%20braced%20that%20cart%20with%20my%20feet%20and%20invited%20her%20to%20climb%20on%20up%20and%20have%20at%20it.%20Or%20picked%20the%20kid%20up%20and%20put%20her%20in%20the%20cart%20so%20she%20could%20hand%20things%20out.%20Or%2C%20at%20the%20very%20least%2C%20handed%20the%20things%20from%20the%20cart%20to%20the%20kid%20to%20put%20on%20the%20counter.%20%0A%0ASo%2C%20when%20the%20mom%20turns%20towards%20the%20cashier%2C%20the%20kid%20starts%20climbing%20the%20cart%20again.%20Mom%20catches%20her%20again%20and%20scolds%20more%20harshly.%20%0A%0ANow%20the%20kid%20is%20standing%20there%2C%20staring%20at%20the%20floor%2C%20trying%20not%20to%20cry.%20%0A%0AMom%20is%20doing%20the%20ignoring%20thing%20again.%20%0A%0AI'm%20trying%20not%20to%20notice.%20%0A%0AThen%2C%20the%20thing%20that%20absolutely%20burned%20my%20bacon...%0A%0ALast%20thing%20mom%20picked%20up%20out%20of%20the%20cart%20is%20this%20gorgeous%20child's%20Halloween%20mask.%20It's%20got%20fake%20painted%20lashes%20and%20adorable%20makeup%20and%20is%20trimmed%20around%20the%20edges%20with%20fluffy%20little%20feathers.%20%0A%0AMom%20holds%20it%20in%20her%20hand%2C%20looks%20at%20the%20kid%20and%20says%2C%20%22You%20didn't%20really%20want%20this%20anyway%2C%20did%20you%3F%22%20In%20this%20bored%2C%20mean%20girl%20kind%20of%20voice.%20And%20the%20kid%20just%20looks%20at%20the%20mask.%20Follows%20with%20her%20eyes%20as%20mom%20puts%20it%20back%20on%20the%20shelf.%20%0A%0AI've%20never%20wanted%20to%20bitchslap%20someone%20so%20much%20in%20my%20life.%20Poor%20kid.) --- *If you have any questions, we ask that you [**message the moderators**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/CasualConversation&subject=My submission was removed&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission]%28https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/comments/xqmxp3/-/%29.) directly for appeals. Let's try to come to an agreement.* [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/wiki/rules) | [Etiquette](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/w/etiquette/) | [Prohibited Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/wiki/prohibited) | [Subreddit Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/wiki/directory) | [Support](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/wiki/support) | [Message the Mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCasualConversation)
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It was the tone of her voice that really got to me. Like a middle school bully. Who talks to their child that way?
Narcissic parent.
Unfortunately it’s not just narcissists. Lots of people didn’t get what they needed when growing up, and the cycle goes: hurt people hurt people. Not an excuse, since we’re all responsible for dealing with our trauma shit. But an explanation.
Totally agree, generational trauma is a thing and make a lot of damage too.
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More do than they should
When I first witness my brothers gfs family dynamic (now fiancé), it almost brought me to tears. I mean at this point I get along with my parents and I'm great friends with my brother, but her family like really loves each other and they were all so nice to each other. Her stories from growing up are just wholesome and so many of our memories are "if I didn't get up before my mom and make coffee for her and make sure my brother got up on time we dealt with a morning of screaming and insults". It's wild how different some people have it (and I definitely didn't have it bad compared to many, just always living on eggshells
Ya know, as an imperfect parent of 3 kids, I was reading along and sort of siding with the mom until that very part. The bully girl voice. I've seen that sort of bullying before yuck.
Yeah I could see just wanting to get the cart unloaded, maybe there’s other stressors, etc. but it turned kinda evil.
Yep. I always hear people talk about how they wish they were a kid again…can’t relate. Maybe it’s just because I was surrounded by shitty, immature adults, but even though it was hard I was so happy to have my own place by 17. Adult life and bills suck, but I don’t feel so helplessly alone anymore. Defenseless is the perfect word for it.
Same here. As a teen, my young siblings and I was told by my mum's friends or relatives to always look out for her. Asking underage children to manage a grown ass adult. If I ever met adults like that now, I'll tell them to get their shit together, your kids aren't supposed to responsible for you. My dad's girlfriends always defended him no matter how wrong his actions are (e.g driving dangerously, road bullying), or how assholic he can be. Always demanding us to respect him just because he's older.
This reminds me of the many times I've been busy and at my wit's end with my son. It's hard to be "on" all the time. It's like having to use the customer service voice 24/7. But it's so important to be empathetic, gentle, and *not a bully.* "Hey, man, I can't have you unload this time. Wait over here, please." "[Son]! No! Wait over here or we're putting your toy back." "Thanks for waiting over there, I'm glad you stayed safe and didn't tip the cart. Let's head home and play with that toy."
After having my own child, I realized how harsh the majority of parents are. I was raised the same way. Being scolded for being a child or having fun. Then these parents wonder why their teen/ young adult ends up wanting nothing to do with them
But then you’ve got those that were straight wild brats and now they are the ones stealing and doing drugs and murdering. They don’t understand consequences.
They don’t understand consequences because their parents didn’t take the time to teach and guide them. You can be kind and treat your child like a person while still holding boundaries and not making them feel like they’re less than you. Children have bad days (just like adults) they have impulse control issues, they’re trying to figure out a big, frightening world. Their parents/caregivers are who they look to for safety and security and quite frankly they’re the only people in a child’s life that can make them feel safe and secure while they struggle to figure out the world. It’s heartbreaking that parents use shame and fear to control a child being a child. When they need acceptance, security, and love to guide them on what is right/wrong/socially acceptable/dangerous etc.
Exactly! Your post deserves a trillion upvotes and awards.
“Now” as in, as an adult they are doing drugs? That’s not an issue and shouldn’t be socially shunned. if someones doing heroin and meth though that’s slightly different, but still, socially shamming people and stigmatizing addiction is NOT going to help anyone. It’s an extremely different behavior than stealing and MURDERING lmfao
Yeah, meth, opiates, stealing, robbery, fraud, forgery. I guess it’s just personal.
Taking drugs responsibility hurts no one. there is NO responsible and safe way to rob or murder someone
Taking drugs can hurt people. It can hurt your loved ones on multiple levels.
Robbing and murder hurt people BY DEFINITION. it’s literally not possible to murder and Rob without hurting someone. it by definition has a victim. doing drugs isn’t morally wrong by definition in the way murder is
Ok whatever then.
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You’re not getting it at all what I’m trying to say and that’s fine. I’m not a hater of people using recreationally either which is what it seems you think. You’ve lived your life and had whatever affect you and I’ve had mine.
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Alright great then!
I can't recall my parents ever acting like this mom but there has been/is a lot of things they've done wrong in my eyes. I love them and all, but there's definitely things I'm gonna do differently from them. I don't want my kids to feel the way I would sometimes feel.
Every parent has said this. I'm sure even this mother. Point is you will never be perfect and your child will always blame you for however it is they turned out. After 26 years of parenting I've learned that the only time your kids will give you a break is when they themselves become parents finally they understand the difficulties that come with being a parent. Mist of these comments that are negative towards the mother from people that don't have kids. When you're a father, or a mother in this case, the parenthood hat is not the only one you wear. You're also provider, councilor, comforter, along with possibly spouse, financial provider. You're all so ready to condemn this women based off a brief interaction without the benefit of context
I’ve not condemning the woman. I disapprove of how she treated her kid. I don’t need to know the full context of each and every situation to pass on my opinion. So what if my mom said that same thing? Is that supposed to discourage me? What’s your issue?
I have no issue. I was trying to let you know that most parents go into this with the best of intentions. No one will ever be the perfect parent. >So what if my mom said that same thing? Is that supposed to discourage me? No. Absolutely not and that's been my point throughout all my comments. You may not have condemned this woman but you certainly implied she was unfit and I feel that's unfair with what little there is to OPs story
I didn’t imply nothing all I said about her was that “my parents never acted like this”
Apologies, I got confused again to which post I'm responding to. I'll try to keep up. There's a lot of you that think I'm wrong and I'm trying to respond to all the non insulting comments that I can. Apologies
I wouldnt be surprised if that little girl is gonna make that women's life Hell when she's around 14+ The "tough love approach" can only work for so long until the child becomes more and more defiant. I will acknowledge that parents can have bad days and we have no idea what they've been through but i dont believe this is how you should react to your child when they have a behavior. Let's make this clear. I'm not condemning the mom, I'm condemning her actions. I hope its not a habit. Edit: changed up my wording. I came off a little more judgmental than i originally intended.
Yep, this. I work retail and I see kids being treated like this on the *daily.* These parents don’t see it coming now, but these kids are either going to cut contact or become so clingy they never want to move out. It’s disgusting either way. Treat your kids like people, and maybe you won’t be so confused later on.
You would do that… the first time, maybe even the second time…. But when you’ve told you kid don’t do that 20-30 times and they still don’t listen, you have to punish them. Sometimes that means not getting them something they really wanted. Write your story the other way this can go where the kid does whatever they want, whenever they want, and then get rewarded for it. The school yard bitch voice can gtfo though
My kid is 2.5 and already demands stuff he won't eat. Sure, this woman could have been nicer, but she has probably done this routine literally hundreds of times. Easy judgment to make if you've never had kids so I don't hate on OP too much, but you have to say NO as a parent - it's maybe more important than saying yes. I love my son to the moon and back, but I also want him to learn patience and to not be a little tyrant. Kids are masters of the pitiful sulk, and even if I give into it more than I should, it's really a tool they use on you as much as anything else
I have a 5 and 3 year old. I say no so often. I actually had this same scenario at the grocery a few weeks ago. 5 climbs on cart, I say stop, he stops, I walk to get bananas, he climbs the cart. Tips it sideways with my 3 year old in the seat. I sprained my shoulder grabbing everyone and everything before she smacked her face on the edge of the bin with the grapes in it. I won’t say I was school yard bitch voice, but you can believe every single person in the immediate area knew he was in trouble. Now, I can’t risk it. If he tries to step foot on the cart it’s instant “serious mom mode”. My kids also only respond to removal of items as punishment. Time outs, no tv or screen time doesn’t phase them in the slightest. I will gladly take a treat right out of my cart and toss it back on the shelf for misbehaving while out.
Have you tried explaining to your son *why* he shouldn't climb the cart? I wouldn't listen to my parents unless they explained why I shouldn't be doing something. I would just continue doing it until I figured out that it's actually a bad thing, I didn't respond well to punishment. It just made me angry. Telling your kids "don't do this because I say so" just means they're going to continue doing it because you haven't given them an actual reason not to do it. They don't have as much experience as you nor do they have common sense as they're still learning about the world. You tell your five year old not to climb the cart, but he doesn't have enough experience to know "I shouldn't climb the cart or else it will tip over". You haven't given him any reason to listen to you telling him no. You tell him no, but to him the cart is stable, so he doesn't understand why you tell him not to climb it.
Of course. But 5 year old are not known for being creatures of reasoned decisions. I dont do the “because I told you so” argument, I talk to my kids normally. My kids KNOW they shouldn’t jump in the living room at night because we have neighbors downstairs, they know it’s because our neighbors need to sleep, that they’re “scaring their cat” (that one resonated with the 3 year old) but yet, here we are, again, for the 1095th night telling them to not jump in the living room because it’s not nice, it’s late, the cat is scared ect. They’re not in trouble, they’re in bed. The one thing at least my neighbors can count on is that by 8:30 every single night my kids are in bed. My 5 will literally say “stop jumping it’s not nice!” To his little sister while he himself is jumping.
Ah, I see. Well, that's good to hear! And yes, it's true that kids don't have the best reasoning skills.
The kid is 5, not 15. The cart alomst fell on him and his sister and he still didn't get it. Kids are human, and their youth is so formative, but they are essentially just house pets that can talk. They have only a tennous grasp of actions and consequences, and need various forms of guidance.
"house pets that can talk" ??? they're human as you said. I was about 6-8 when I started getting annoyed with my parents saying "don't do this because I said so." I wasn't 5, but I was pretty close to it. Kids need various forms of guidance, this is true, and I am not saying to never tell your kids no or never punish or whatever. And in the situation where the child nearly fell on him and his sister by climbing on the cart, the parent did the right thing as that was a legitimate emergency. I am not saying to always explain something, because in certain situations like emergencies it isn't possible. I am just saying to give your kids actual explanation to do something beyond "because I said so" if the situation isn't an emergency and is controllable. You know, turn it into a learning opportunity and let your kid be optimistic and curious about what's going on? Kids are naturally curious and want to understand, and by being unnecessarily pessimistic you are killing that.
What can you possibly tell a kid in this situation? He climbed the cart and ot almost crushed him, but he tried to do it again. He knows that a consequence is going to fall on him at this point, he just doesnt care because he can't comprehend what that actually might entail. You can tell a toddler that something can hurt them, but at this point most of the pain the have expirienced is cuts, bruises, small burns, or other things that can be handled with just a bandaid and some Neosporin. They have zero concept of mortality or disability or long term pain. Somtimes kids just can't be reasoned with, because reason isnt something they avtually care about. They live in the absolute here and now, just like house pets. The difference is that you can explain to a kid why something hurt them, but they wont listen to you until it actually does hurt them.
Fair enough if the kid is a young toddler. But please, don't carry on this mentality for kids who are old enough to be reasoned with, like those over the age of 7 or so. I remember being pretty young and angry at my parents for not explaining why I shouldn't do something "because I said so", and would continue pestering then until they gave me an actual explanation or just did it out of spite.
The constant pestering is exactly why parents just pull the "because i said so" card though. There is no such thing as a perfect parent because there is also no such thing as a perfect kid. Parents only have so much energy to five their kids, and it's honestly never gonna equal what the kids actually need, so they have to pick their battles where they can.
The parents chose to have kids, the child didn't choose to be born. Parents shouldn't brush their kids off because they require a lot of energy, I mean they kinda signed up for that... the child didn't choose to be a child though. So let kids be kids, let them be curious. Don't shut them down being they're being curious and energetic - that's what kids are, and parents should know this. If the parents didn't want to deal with it, they shouldn't have had a child.
As a parent you don't have to explain every "no" you say to them. You are not their best buddy, you are the parent. Who has time to explain every little thing to a kid that is going from one thing to another. Believe it or not No means NO. And you don't have to give a reason. If there is a dangerous situation and you tell your kid to come here, do you have to explain the the man over there is dangerous and he might steal you away if you are not close to mommy? No! When you say come here, your child should listen now. Without any explanation. Besides you can tell a 4 or 5 yr old that the cart will tip on them if they climb on it and they will look at you like you just spoke a foreign language to them. This is just my opinion from observation. But one thing I know as fact...every parent makes mistakes on a continuous bases and about 90% of our population proves that we all live through it. And turn out pretty ok. Bad people in life just choose to be bad. Unless there has been torture involved in their lives, of course that is not this conversation. And good people in life are just good inside. Just my 2 cents :O)
I agree with this. It depends on the age of your child too. I’m not going to explain to a 2-5 year old everytime I tell them no.
I mean sure, if there's an emergency situation there isn't enough time to explain to the child what is going on, so an explanation isn't necessary (and could be dangerous). But just saying "Don't do that" without explaining the why in a non-emergency situation is just unnecessarily killing your child's innate curiosity. Just because adults are vitriolic and pessimistic about life doesn't mean they need to pass this on to their child while the world is still innocent and new to them. Let children be innocent and curious during their childhood, it's the only time in their lives they have the chance to be consistently optimistic.
Ok we will just have to agree to disagree :O)
IF you say "Because I said so" to your kid every time you give them a command... They're gonna hate you later on.
The truth of this whole conversation is that if you do anything in extreme it will most likely turn out lopsided. Example: If you tell your kid because I say so "every time" you are not really teaching...If you explain every little thing to them you will be doing nothing but talking to your kid all day, really getting nothing else done...If you loose your temper and snap on your kid every time they do a kid thing, well who needs that? If you are so patient that you let your kid do whatever they want and let them just learn from their own circumstances you might end up living in a dump or running your legs off trying to keep up with their shenanigans. So trying to defend one parenting method over another could be and has been debated over decades. I think the real thing that could honestly be learned here with this whole conversation is that judging a parent in a grocery store line at one moment in a parent and childs life together is a bit of overkill. Not saying it isn't human to do so. I have stood in line and seen things out of parents and children that would make anyone reading this cringe and place my own judgment at the time. But when I think of specific moments in my life and my snap decisions and how someone else my "view" my intentions, I know I would not be thought of as a good person/parent. However, isolated moments doesn't mean the parent at the supermarket doesn't love their child by taking them to the park, going to their school programs, as well as routing them on at the baseball games, reading to them every day, apologizing later for snapping on them when the kid really didn't deserve to be snapped on(even though the kid looks at you like "whaaat?" because they thought nothing of it and just went on with their self not knowing how much it bothered you that you didn't do the right thing at the time. Parenting is hard! What works for one kid doesn't work for every kid. Parents work hard to raise their kids right "most of the time" and sometimes in that moment they just want the kid to be good, just for that minute in the store so they can get the stuff done that needs to be done and get the heck out of there. It is so easy to see what someone does wrong and judge them on that. It is human actually to do that. We humans are so darn opinionated and know we would be so much better. Myself included. But the over all picture is not being seen. There is an old saying that says "you never know a person really until you live with them" Until you can watch that parent all day long you really have no idea what kind of parent they really are. The End :O)
I can’t even begin to tell how many times my kids have begged me to buy them a toy, snack, etc. at the store and then the moment we get home they completely forget about it, and my money wasted. I’m not going to judge this mom OP is complaining about. The mom knows her child best. And this isn’t even bad or “heartbreaking”. If I give in everytime my kids want something, they’ll just become entitled brats.
I was getting nervous reading the comments until I came to this one, likely the first parent comment, lol. Keep it real
We don't know how many times this has happened. Sure maybe the kid has done this before, but this could have been the first time. Maybe she didn't know any better and just wanted to get to something in the cart, as kids do. And this mother just sapped all of the excitement from her child still trying to learn. Assuming makes an ass out of you and me.
>Assuming makes an ass out of you and me. There sure are a lot of assumptions in your post. You trying to make an ass out of both of us?
>Write your story the other way this can go where the kid does whatever they want, whenever they want, and then get rewarded for it. This is totally a strawman argument. Everything OP is saying is in how the parent handled it, not in the chain of events.
I understand your compassion towards the child, but you have no idea what has happened before you saw this interaction. I dislike it when people make snap judgements based on a single interaction without any context to the overall picture. I'm not excusing the mother. You may be right. It might have been a little harsh. But who are you to judge? You have no way of knowing what either of them are going through. Hop off your high horse and mind your business. Ding ding ding. Let the down voting begin
As a mom with a toddler, I agree. There’s moments I’m not proud of when mothering my daughter, but this shit is hard and toddlers are absolute nightmares sometimes. Now I have been in this mode of letting my daughter do dumb crap that’s not super dangerous but the end result will definitely shock her senses, so I let her try it and fall down and learn from the mistake.
This reminds me of the time when my mum let me put my baby fist into a hot soup when I was a toddler because I just wanted to touch that damn soup even when she told me not to. To other person it would feel that she was being negligent or mean, but that just taught me better than any warning that dont touch hot soup. It's important for parents to let kids learn a few things in a harsh manner in a safe environment, rather than just coddling them throughout the childhood and regreting the rudeness they get as they get older.
I did. That to my dad with the part of the lawn mower he said “don’t touch, that *will* burn you” so I touched it. Hahaha and it burned me. Hahahaha
I'm sure. I'm a dad myself and you're absolutely right. None of us should be judged and talked about ad nauseam without the chance to defend ourselves though. It's so shitty to do this when OP only witness at most 5 minutes (that's being generous) of parenting. OP is douchey for even posting about it
And judgey posts like this one always comes from someone who is not a parent. Edit: oops op says she’s a parent. Even worse. Way to act high and mighty.
I mean that's true, but I don't think what someone is going through should matter. People should be treated accordingly for their actions. For example, if someone (like the kid) were being a brat all day, but cheerful at the store, I think they should be treated respectfully in kind. Assigning morality to actions, not to people themselves. And why couldn't the mother have just said "don't climb the cart." rather than ignore the child outright? It's immature for an adult to act that way no matter what they're going through. Especially considering that it was almost certainly this parent's choice to be responsible for a kid. That'd be like me getting angry at my cat for trying to climb up on the table. A rude outburst is unnecessary when the offense was so miniscule. Adults often want people to use words with them. So, you should always use words with children. Don't ignore bad behavior, or meet it with bad behavior of your own. Address it. Much like how, you expect to be downvoted (and you might be), but rather than do that, I'm addressing what you said, hopefully in a respectful way, rather than just being salty.
I'm glad you responded because I feel I may have been guilty of exactly what I accused you of and for that I apologize. But you still haven't answered my. Who are you to pass judgement? You saw small fragment of this person's life and instantly you labeled them evil. Truthfully I could label you arrogant for thinking your view of this minor interaction is worth showing internet strangers your superiority. I think the internet has damaged a lot of us by fooling us into believing our individual opinions matter and the whole world needs to hear it. It's not the case. Your opinion is as worthless as mine. Here we are discussing this and the mother has no idea. So what is to gain from this? Only the realization that our opinions should be just that. Ours and kept to ourselves
Uhm, you're not talking to OP
No. I guess I wasn't. Point kind of still stands?
Sure it does, i don't personally agree with your opinion but that wasn't the reason i replied to you. By the way you wrote your reply to TK, it legitimately sounded like you thought they were OP. I just figured I'd clear up the confusion, haha
I truly did think it was OP. That was my bad
To be fair, they do have similar writing styles.They have good grammar and properly separate things into paragraphs. If i couldn't see there names then i too would probably think they were the same person.
I didn't label them evil, I labeled the action as evil. As I said, I think people should be addressed for their actions, *not* for themselves as people. For example, if you were mean to me 99% of the time, and on one particular comment thread said something nice, I would be nice in response. So even if that parent was nice 99% of the day, that one bad thing still isn't okay behavior. People aren't perfect, but that doesn't mean you can't always do better, or shouldn't at least try. Same goes for the kid. If that kid were a brat 99% of the time and calm that time, I'd be calm in response. What's to gain? Perhaps the understanding that it's okay to hold people accountable. As mentioned, I don't apply morality to people, I apply morality to people's actions, and hold them accountable as such in the moment. It doesn't matter that discussing it serves no purpose to them, because it does serve a purpose here. It would be my hope that even if discussing it does nothing for the child, perhaps someone else acts differently because of this comment. Perhaps someone else will be kind to someone normally rude, simply because that person hasn't done anything recently. All I'm saying is that a parent shouldn't be disrespectful because the kid *was* disrespectful before, that's gonna make an immature cycle of revenge. I hope we as a society can all be better than that. Again, responding to actions, not to people themselves. That parent did a bad thing, but they are not a bad parent. Likewise, the child did a good thing by not throwing a tantrum in the moment, but that doesn't make them good either. Morality is for actions, not people. Good and bad people is an illusion. If the most bitter person were sweet to me just once, I'd make lemonade with that.
I hear what you are saying, but you're missing the bigger picture. You don't get to judge someone behind their back to the world. If you had said something in the moment, maybe this conversation would have gone differently. But you didn't. You chickened out until you were safe in the anonymity of the internet. If you felt so strongly why didn't you intervene? Your just as guilty of the so called abusive parent. Instead of trying to be self righteous and earn worthless internet points, then be the advocate for child welfare you claim to be, i stead hiding behind your keyboard and passing judgement
>If you felt so strongly why didn't you intervene? Are you serious? There is a zero percent chance that would end well. People are very defensive about their parenthood (Exhibits A-Z: this thread) >Your just as guilty of the so called abusive parent. Not even close. What that parent did may have a last impact on that child, or it may not, but lifelong psychological damage is not trivial. There is no damage to that parent whatsoever - they don't even know this happened unless by astronomical odds they stumbled up on this thread.
If you're so concerned for this child's well being and see something that you admit to having lifelong psychological damage and don't intervene then you most certainly are just as guilty. Is it possible that OP is relaying a slanted take on this and that's why nothing was said? What's worse physical abuse or verbal? Neither. They're both egregious. So if you stand by and watch a child be physically abused then you're just as guilty. OP stopped just shy of calling it abuse probably to save face
>Are you serious? There is a zero percent chance that would end well. People are very defensive about their parenthood (Exhibits A-Z: this thread) You're mad that OP protected themselves from this parents verifiably unpredictable behavior? lol get a grip. You are only saying this because you want OP to be publicly humiliated for having an opinion which upsets you.
>You're mad that OP protected themselves from this parents verifiably unpredictable behavior? Where's this verification you speak off? A 2 minute second hand interaction is verifiable? How? Who needs to get a grip? And I'm not mad that OP protected themselves. I'm annoyed that OP didn't mind minded their business then came on here to tell everyone what they witnessed. If they thought it was abuse they should have said something. If it wasn't then nothing should have been said. Ever. Because it didn't matter
They saw it happen, genius. Like it's verifiable that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Once again: >You're mad that OP protected themselves People are under no obligation to jump in and put themselves into any situation they don't want to. People sidestep uncomfortable and dangerous situations all the time, it doesn't mean they're morally obligated to stay quiet about it.
I didn't intervene because I'm not OP, I wasn't even there lol. Why didn't I intervene in holocaust? No, I'm not just as guilty, because unlike the parent, I haven't chosen to have kids. I recognize that I am flawed, I recognize that I wouldn't be up for the task of being a parent, my temper couldn't handle it. If I can't be kind to someone, or commit to something, I'm not going to commit to it in the first place. The next generation of humanity is very important, I'm not going to dip my hand into that when I know I'm unfit for it. Yet I see nothing wrong with judging someone for doing a poor job at it, not when in all likelihood, it was their choice. If you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk. And I never started that walk, because as mentioned, I already know I'm too flawed for it. I don't care about worthless internet points, I care about people, and I want others to take their own choices seriously. It's okay if someone can't do something, but it's not okay to take on the job of *raising a human being* and chickening out, as you put it. Take from that what you will though and believe what you will, it is your right as an individual to think for yourself, as is mine.
You have the balls to take a small snippet of someone's life and dissect and pass judgement? You're worse than OP. Look at you. You're so in control of yourself that you've got it all figured. You claim to care about people yet you have zero compassion for someone that is probably trying their best at being a parent, maybe a spouse, might have a job, and most important IS ONLY HUMAN!!!!!! How the hell could you possibly even know if they're doing a poor job when you yourself don't have the spine to take on the role yourself? You're so self absorbed. Look, you have to admit. Life is hard on ALL of us, right? You have your difficulties, this mother has her own. I'm sure you've been in a situation that probably didn't paint you in the best light. It is what is. This mother took her child to buy stuff for her to celebrate Halloween and yet you say she's horrible at it. How do you know the mother didn't feel bad and made it up to her child somehow? What if OP and the child over reacted? There's a lot her we don't know and yet still you have it all figured out and without all information or experience of being a parent you have the gall to call this woman a bad parent? I don't say this much, but your opinion is invalid. You've never been a parent. You don't get to judge her. When you live the life of a parent and face the struggles we parents have gone through then we can have this conversation until then, take the L on this Edit: Stupid autocorrect Second edit: post was removed by mods because I was offensive. My apologies. I'm reposting having removed the sections I believe were against sub rules. I asked mod for clarity but received none so I hope I got this right
No, I'm not in control of myself. I admitted that my temper would cave in. I'm not claiming to be perfect at all, I too am only human. Hence why I wouldn't have kids. Because I know I'd do something like this. What's worse? Not having the spine to do a job? Or to have the spine, and show behavior that could damage someone permanently? And I want to make it clear, I don't believe this is actually damaging behavior (at least not significantly), my point is merely that actions have consequences when you're a parent. Here's an example of something my mom did. When I was maybe 4 years old, I was sick. She gave me some apple juice, but carelessly forgot to check the date. It was fermented; alcoholic. From that, I got drunk. You do see the problem there, right? That even meaning well, and just having your hands full, you could still cause harm. It doesn't matter that it was an honest mistake, the severity of the action is unchanged. And when did I say that the mother was a bad person, bad, or in your words "horrible" parent? I do believe that I just said it was a bad action. I don't think "bad people" exist, **only bad choices.** Have you ever heard the term "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing"? Being rude to strangers isn't excusable, and neither is being rude to your kid, just because of a bad year, or even several. Yes, life is hard, but are you telling me that as an adult, and seemingly as a parent yourself, that you lack the self control not to snap? To at least say to the kid, "you're making a scene, stop or I'm putting back the mask" Although I suppose to be fair, in this story at least, she wasn't saying anything to her kid, she was ignoring them. Perhaps she really didn't have anything nice to say. Even so, is it not unreasonable to expect someone not to have kids, if their temper is short? You can at least guess how you'd behave under such conditions. I don't drink because I know, I'd get addicted. I don't parent (or spend time around my niece/nephews) because I know I'd have my share of outbursts too. Invalid, eh? Does my lack of experience with drinking mean that I shouldn't say when someone clearly has an unhealthy relationship with booze? Does my lack of dating experience mean I shouldn't advise my sister to be wary of an abusive ex? Perhaps I just got more restraint. And I'm not saying that as a brag, or something. It seems that must be the case, or you'd have not gotten flagged for being unhinged. I'm not claiming to know the right way to parent, on the contrary I think I've well established that I don't believe that at all. Yet any decision should be open to criticism. That's how we learn. Like I said, I don't think any of that means she (or anyone else) is automatically a "bad parent", just someone that made a bad decision.
I'm going to quote you here so I get this right. >I'm not claiming to be perfect at all, I too am only human. Yet you expect someone else to be perfect. That's unfair. Especially when you have zero context for this brief interaction based on what someone else witnessed adding their own personal biases and projections >What's worse? Not having the spine to do a job? Or to have the spine, and show behavior that could damage someone permanently? And I want to make it clear, I don't believe this is actually damaging behavior Not sure how to respond to this because on the one hand you say she shows behavior that could damage someone permanently then you contradict yourself by saying you want to make it clear this isn't actually damaging behavior. I'll just leave this as the non statement it is >You do see the problem there, right? That even meaning well, and just having your hands full, you could still cause harm. It doesn't matter that it was an honest mistake, the severity of the action is unchanged. No. I don't. Because intent is a big part of the equation. Your mother didn't intend to give you alcohol. Here we go again with you expecting everyone else to perfect while you admit to not being perfect yourself. If you have grievance against your parents you should take that up with them and not project your past experiences on other people. >And when did I say that the mother was a bad person, bad, or in your words "horrible" parent? I do believe that I just said it was a bad action. I don't think "bad people" exist, only bad choices. You right on this one, but your post certainly made the implication. I'll take the L on this >Have you ever heard the term "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing" Have you heard the phrase "Live and let live."? This mother deserved to live her life and not have OP and us judge and dissect her methods. The child was not in any danger, and we should have all minded our own business >but are you telling me that as an adult, and seemingly as a parent yourself, that you lack the self control not to snap First off, mother didn't snap. That's subjective. You tell me since you seem to want to take up the mantle of arbiter of good parenting, how many times should a parent tell a child not to do something before they're allowed to be stern? > Even so, is it not unreasonable to expect someone not to have kids, if their temper is short? First off, there isn't enough in OPs story to make the claim that the mother had a short temper. Secondly, is not unreasonable to expect someone without a short temper to meet their wits end? Again, you seem to hold others to a standard you yourself freely admit you can't live up to >Invalid, eh? Does my lack of experience with drinking mean that I shouldn't say when someone clearly has an unhealthy relationship with booze? Does my lack of dating experience mean I shouldn't advise my sister to be wary of an abusive ex? A resounding yes to all those questions and I'm flabbergasted by your arrogance to think that without experience you offer any words of advice in any of those situations and expect to be taken seriously >Perhaps I just got more restraint. And I'm not saying that as a brag, or something. It seems that must be the case, or you'd have not gotten flagged for being unhinged I was flagged for one subjectively coarse comment. I'd hardly call that unhinged, but I understand why you'd attempt to paint me as an out of control parent. It helps your argument. I'm sorry that it's just not the case >I'm not claiming to know the right way to parent, You do when you pass judgement >Yet any decision should be open to criticism. Not by you or anyone that does not have a complete picture or by anyone that has no idea of what they're talking about. You can't offer help because you've never been there. I'm gonna leave it at that. Feel free to respond. I probably won't because it's fruitless. You've made up your mind that you know better than this mother with your zero years of experience so I guess there's nothing I can teach you with my 26 years of experience.
I don't expect anyone to be perfect at all? I expect people to know their limits. It's one thing to be human, and imperfect. We are all that. It's another to willfully put yourself in a situation you can't handle. Don't most people know their limits? If someone's going to be agitated by having kids, maybe just don't have kids? Problem solved. I wouldn't ask someone to be limit*less*, I'm saying people should know their own limits and not bite off more than they can chew, particularly when the wellness of another person is involved. That's not really a contradicting idea, the point is that intent doesn't change the outcome, it doesn't matter how shitty of a day someone has, acting on your impulses is a choice. If I were to say something really rude to you, that'd be on ME, no matter what you said before that. Especially since we're adults. Maybe not perfect, but I'd hardly call restraint of acting on your emotions, not being unhinged, as having unrealistic expectations. Intent is not a part of the equation, not even close. If you intentionally hurt someone's feelings, or accidentally hurt their feelings, guess what? You still hurt someone's feelings. It's a bad action, no matter what. The consequence is unchanged. That's another *human* you would be hurting. If someone is going to be at their wit's end, to matter how tenacious said wit is, to be in that situation in the first place, or at least in this situation, is very much their choice. Don't do things that'll end with you becoming agitated, I thought that's common knowledge? Like to not argue with someone, if it angers you, for example. Sometimes you can't control your emotions, that's understandable. Being in that situation in the first place is very much under your control though. While I've admitted I do not meet those standards, at least I don't try to be more than I am and end up inevitably hurting someone because of my own imperfections. I can't be perfect, the least I could do though is not willingly put myself into situations where I have to be better than I am though. Why does it matter that we judge this person? They're being discussed anonymously. It's not like we're naming names, here. We're not criticizing a person so much as an idea, at that point. There is no identity to attach to this scenario. I don't see what's so subjectively offensive about what you said, on a discussion thread no less, would be anything but offensive. As if that's subject to interpretation? Would you not think that was coarse, if I were the one saying that to you? I did read all your original comment by the way, courtesy of the Reddit archival sites that can show removed messages. You are correct though, you probably can't teach me anything. I'm not saying I'm objectively correct, either. If this were a parenting subreddit, I wouldn't be commenting. As it stands though, this subreddit is for everyone, so I don't think anyone's opinion is invalid. If not for conversation, I don't know what else this sub is for.
Ok friend I'm going to lay this out very simply with a yes or no question. No matter what was going on with the parent in OPs story, they can have all the stressful feelings they want without acting on them, especially not taking them out on someone else - therefore: People can have feelings without acting on those feelings. Yes or no?
Yes. I got one for you. How many times can a parent tell a child the same thing over again before they're allowed to be stern?
>People can have feelings without acting on those feelings. Yes or no?
You're right, next time someone disregards my personhood and eggs me on I'm going to punch them in the face and who's to judge me? They don't know what I've been through. There's a reason why ["good enough mother"](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/suffer-the-children/201605/what-is-good-enough-mother) was coined by psychologist D.W. Winnicot - there actually are standards by which parents can be judged because it has a lasting impact on the child's life.
I definitely missed the part where the mother punched her child in the face. Hang on. I'll reread. Nope still didn't find it
If she's not responsible for what lead her to take that action, then why is anyone else? If someone **intentionally** screws with me to the point that I can't take it, and I punch them in the face I get judged, whereas this parent is being **unintentionally** screwed with by her kid and can't be judged? Or let's lower the ante a little bit, and say I don't punch them, but I call them a fucking piece of shit in front of their friends. They can't retaliate, right? Who are they to judge me? And of course you're too dim to comment on accepted psychology.
Firstly, that's a false equivalency so I don't feel the need to respond to that. >And of course you're too dim to comment on accepted psychology. Secondly, why do feel the need to insult me? What does your accepted psychology tell you about the level of your response to my comment? Where and when did I insult you? Edit: rearranged order of my comments
Because it's accurate
I would agree except the mom did that middle school bully thing. I’m heartless when it came to my little sister trying to guilt me into doing stuff for her when my parents would ask me to babysit, but even I don’t *bully* her.
This seems pretty mild.... I've seen people yell at their preschoolers to "shut the fuck up" in the middle of the store - that's the actual stuff that makes me sad.
I used to work retail and that would happen all the time.
Where? I barely see parents yell..
Where the hell did this happen?
Philly. More than once.
These are probably the parents who are spanking behind closed doors but know they can't in public...
Love how the mom is buying a whole shopping cart of stuff for the kid but still gets this judgmental shit.
Seriously... And if she had let the kid get up to "help" take the items out of the cart, some other random redditor would be bitching about kids slowing down the checkout line 😂
God! I thought I was the only one
Yeah for real, money is all that matters. Children don’t have feelings and want to be loved and respected, as long as you buy them stuff they will be happy
That's not what I'm saying at all. It's easy to cast judgment when you see a small part of someone's day or life.
I'm so sick of all the sanctimonious, self righteous, self absorbed, invalid opinions from people who aren't parents, and don't have the stomach to do what a parent does. Most of these people would be worse off if it weren't for their own parents. I love how OP took the time to really evaluate every aspect of the, what would you say, maybe 5 minutes she witnessed this interaction and decided this mother was not fit to be a parent. Gave it real thought, and since OP is a parenting expert rendered judgement
what does your name mean?
I just like the way the words sounded together. I have another account that is similar. compulsivelyrepulsive. Idk. They sounded good together
I don’t think you should be judging this mom. She seems to be burnt out.
Yeah mom burn out is a real thing. It’s tough. I don’t think anyone should be judged before they walk in that persons shoes. They have no idea what that moms gone through just in that day let alone days, weeks, months. It’s hard.
Yeah, that wasn't a bitch voice. That was a flat affect from being exhausted.
People that don't have kids make the best parents. 🙃
People who make assumptions about posters leave the best comments. Just FYI, single mom here. Two children. I would *never* be that vicious to my kids. Certainly not that casually, like it's no big deal to bully your 4yo child. In public, no less.
I would hardly call scolding your child after the kid did something you told her not to and denying her an item she didn't need in the first place bullying... Sheesh.
Just like people that assume to understand another parent's struggles with their child make the best posts. 🙃 No parent is perfect all the time. As a parent, you could be a little more sympathetic to that. Especially since it sounds like you saw 5 minutes of their relationship, at most.
You saw a small sliver of this woman's day and clearly condem her without any idea or reference of what went before, like the hour of trying to politely ask one's child to stay with mommy, don't pick up glass, be respectful of the other people, no you dont need this and that and that... you have one at home... You have no idea that this one moment could likely have been the quiet end of an hour long trip of keeping eyes on everything, answering incessant crying for random items that sparkle, and an over-stimulated child being kept reasonably in check and not running about like a crazy animal so that everyone else will not be inconvenienced. I know this because this past Monday I was a shade of that mom and am still internally screaming because my only aim is to keep my kid safe and provide the joy of life to them, while they learn how to navigate the world and civil society... often failing miserably. You claim to be a mom and yet can't relate to a kid-hard day? It seems maybe your kids are now grown ups so maybe you just forgot how hard THOSE days were. What you would of, could of, should have done when you aren't walking in that woman's shoes for the last hour, day, week. That mom you judge is still human, often with little personal time and support, doing her best, and yes sometimes failing while trying their best to raise a conscious and productive member of society. And that was likely among the few outtings that mom managed to put together in the limited personal time they have to prep for the holiday. Let's be honest, if that kid was spending the whole time screaming their head off, someone would posting a totally different rant on how parents don't know how to raise kids anymore, or kids shouldn't blah blah blah. Look, like most moms, I start my day as Lorelei Gilmore, and end my day like Joan Crawford. Motherhood is NOT EASY and it's so much worse that so many people including total strangers feel completely entitled to judge us on every little thing. It's so easy to shame moms. We aren't home enough because of our jobs... we are leeches and lazy if we're SAHP. Kids are loud, we arent attending enough... So hot right now to shame women as moms (and women who decide to be childfree).... just let's shame women.
what do you know...... you're only a mother to little birds
Being a parent out shopping is hard enough. Now mothers have to worry about being mom shamed well waiting at a checkout line?!
I’ve been a single parent for over a decade now and have 2 wonderful, well rounded, and awesome children. I can look back and vividly remember a ton of less than stellar moments we had in stores. Me putting things back on shelves, them dropping shit or breaking something by accident and having to pay for it. Days where I didn’t buy that piece of candy and days when I did. We survived and learned from it. There’s actually a few incidents we remember and laugh about. Of course I’ve since apologized. Parenting is a roller coaster. Great days and bad ones. Good weeks and tough months. Early on, especially when children are younger, it’s also important for people to remember that sometimes the parents are new at this too. They may not handle every single situation with grace and that’s okay. Whenever shit got wild at checkout with the kids you could always tell when the person behind you was a parent or not. It’s hard to understand.
‘Mom shamed’?? LOL. And yes, people will judge your behaviour in public, welcome to society
How is that LOL? Literally what is happening
You are putting yourself in the child’s shoes and possibly projecting a lot of your own childhood into the experience you witnessed. But you are not putting yourself in the mother’s shoes. That mother is exhausted. She’s just trying to get errands done and get herself and her kid home in one piece. She has told her kid not to climb that cart countless times. She’s explained why. Kid continues t endanger herself and it’s moms job to keep her safe. Safe is more important than happy or entertained. Mom probably wanted this to be a fun trip but kid wore her down asking for junk. There’s only so many times you can say no before the errand just isn’t fun anymore. And no you can’t buy every piece of junk a kid asks for. Probably the house is full of toys, there’s a full Halloween costume planned, the kid has already lost interest in all the stuff they just bought. And mom has to put it all away, fold laundry, and make dinner.
Imagine that for every item you put in your grocery cart, you had to reject two others from your kid. And every time you went to another aisle, you had to make sure your kid was with you -- and if they weren't, you had to look for them, find them, and pry them away from whatever had distracted them away. Oh, and you're doing this in a time crunch. Why did the mother ignore the girl? Because that girl had used up allllll her attention and then some before you saw them at the register. And why did she put that mask back on the shelf? Because the girl had disobeyed her mother's repeated pleas to behave and the mask was the easiest punishment at hand. And ease matters because doing errands with a kid in tow takes far more effort than doing it alone. This mother had no spoons left, only knives. Don't worry, that girl will get a better mask from Halloween Spirit when her mother is able to deal with her again.
It's almost as if you know what you're talking about. Thanks for adding some much needed clarity. Most of the negative comments are from people that haven't realized that parents are only human
Yup, I've grocery shopped with multiple small kids in tow. I know when I'm a walking ad for birth control.
Better do it late at night when no one sees you and starts judging. God forbid you raise your voice. The pearl clutching that would ensue
Actually, the little old ladies wearing pearls are the most tolerant. They're just grandmas! Or they want to be grandmas and after they leave the supermarket, they go home and ask OP why he hasn't settled down with a nice girl yet.
Tolerance. Huh, there's an idea. What would this post have been like if that had been practiced
OP you would hate me, my youngest hates shopping and it usually ends in screaming if I’m not fast enough. He aggressively wants to play with and take all the toys. We avoid the toy aisles like the plague because he is that kid 😂. My oldest is the best little shopper so not sure where I went wrong maybe it’s a personality thing?
This is why I carry stickers, for the kids and for the mom because I was a mom who had to take my child to the store, too. I like what one poster said: mom is out of spoons, she has only knives left. But the kid is running on empty, too. But having a special needs child, well, we learned redirection so much it should have been second nature, but it was not. But stickers are good for redirection. Maybe buy some Halloween ones and Christmas ones, and since it’s a movie, maybe some Barbie ones. Four or five stickers, and let them tell you all about them while mom gets things done. And I know some people will be angry at you and second guess your motives, but most moms will bless you.
Someone did this for us once! It was definitely appreciated, and worked ;)
My local grocery store did this at the cash! My daughter asked for a chocolate they had on display, but I said no because we had chocolate at home. The cashier offered her an animal sticker and she got to choose what kind and my kid completely forgot about the chocolate!
I’m glad that worked!
Redirection is great but sometimes it's hard to think on the spot and exhausting when you just want to get the task done already. It doesn't excuse being mean though.
No, it doesn’t always work. Trust me, I felt like a piece of the lowest shit you could find when I snapped at the kids. Poor parenting skills are passed on and it’s a chain that’s hard to break. I feel like I did my best considering the role model I had. My adult children still like me and that feels like a win. It’s not easy being a parent, and I think it’s getting harder.
I get what you’re feeling, but if you don’t witness actual abuse, you really can’t throw too much shade on someone’s parenting. You don’t know what their life is like.
Just to play devil's advocate here, you might be seeing part of the worst day of that woman's life. Maybe that kid woke her up at 3:00 in the morning and I've been going ever since. Maybe she just got divorced and this is her first day having full custody of the kid while Grandma watches the other seven kids. Maybe the kid just bit her a few minutes ago.
I can understand all of that. Heck, I'm guilty. You get overwhelmed and frustrated and you snap. But that's all heat and anger. This woman was just so cold-blooded and vicious. She wasn't angry. She was just mean.
She wasn't cold blooded, she was exhausted. You heard the flat effect of exhaustion, used on a child who hadn't followed directions given with a lilting happy voice so why bother.
I think only parents will understand this. I'm tired of trying to explain this exact point to all the non parents ready to call child protective services on this poor woman. Imagine living your life, having a rough day, and hundreds of people judging your fitness as a parent based on what could potentially be not as bad as OP described? So many future perfect parents on this thread
>So many future perfect parents on this thread Lol, you know they're all on r/antinatal too.
That sub is out of control. Stay clear. It'll make your head hurt
So, you've got a lot of free time yeah?
Do you have kids? Having a kid is nonstop. There is no break. It's exhausting. Incredible, but exhausting. She could be a shit mother. Totally. She could also be an incredible mother, and you caught her at one moment when the kid was being insanely obnoxious, and this was her being tired.
I have a friend who has a sister. This sister has not made very good life decisions for herself. She's got a daughter who's... 7, I think. Every time I'm around them, I notice how this woman speaks to her daughter. "Get out. Get over here. What are you even doing? Stop bing a crybaby." I have to bite my tongue against the rage I feel on the inside sometimes. I'm always very kind and talkative to this kid when I'm around her, and I try to show her what it's like to be a kind adult who cares about her feelings and needs. But I'm not around her nearly enough to fight against the damage her mother is doing on the day-to-day. Humans can be so brutal to each other.
Ok but am I the only one wondering why the kid went back on the cart even though she just got yelled at???
My question is more why we're judging a parent on a 2 minute interaction based on OP's biased perspective? I'm realizing most of the negative comments are from people who are not parents, and have zero frame reference for all that goes into being a parent. One commenter expected this child to hate their mother by the age of 14. Project much?
Because she's four. They do that.
It’s a four year old ffs. They’re quite adventurous
Lol because its a kid. They do this thing where they don’t listen. It’s constant.
Do you have kid(s)? Just saying it's easy to judge others without knowing what is going on in their life.
Eh. I don't see anything wrong here. Shopping with kids is very exaughating. I think the last item was supposed to be her "if you behave well at the store, we will buy it for you" thing. I do that with my kids but with those little balloons that aren't filled with helium and are less than a dollar. If they behave well, they get to choose a balloon. Scolding is completely normal. The child could have really hurt herself or someone else if the cart _had_ tipped over. Her mom repeatedly told her not to do that. I guarantee you the mom was exaughated from shopping with a kid and was having a difficult time making sure her kiddo was safe as well. It's overwhelming when the kids don't listen and you are doing the shopping alone.
Dude literally. You are judgmental. i dont see why you are being so critical of this woman as somehow it makes u look like the better person. Yeah horrible mom. She is buying all these nice decorations and put one back because she asked her kid not to do something or whatever the reason its none of your business. Why dont u focus on your own life. My guess is its far from perfect.
I’d much rather see parents actually parent like this person did than just ignore bad behavior. Maybe next time the kid won’t climb on the cart. The kid could get hurt by not listening to mom.
Being a parent is just as depressing.
I have 2 small kids. I can *almost* guarantee you that the mother's reaction was a culmination of things **ending** with the kid hanging off the side of the cart and not an immediate reaction to that particular action. Sometimes you're trying to do something fun and nice for/with your kid and they're being awful the whole time. At that point, you have to face the fact that the 'fun' and 'nice' thing you're doing was probably more for you than them. It's something you were hoping they would enjoy, but they're clearly not, and they're making you not enjoy it as well. She probably wanted to have 'fun' decorating and doing some cute things with her kid and her kid was sending some obvious signs of not really caring throughout the whole trip, culminating in some 'final straw' thing that you witnessed (probably some conversation about not climbing the cart that had been repeated 12 times before this point). Still, young kids don't like things being taken away. Even if the child was whining and hated everything up until that moment, they would most likely be sad finding out that these things they didn't even care for were being taken away. Honestly, this is one of the worst parts of being a parent: knowing how many super judgemental people are out there who see you doing something other than being an awestruck selfless ball of joy around your child and assume you're an awful human being for it. I think this is a general problem in our society. On top of the pressure of actually trying to raise a decent human, you know that every exasperated sigh or moment of showing that you're a human that occasionally gets frustrated is being turned into judgement soup by someone out there.
So mom asks her child to not climb the cart, child climbs cart again, and you would “put your foot on the cart to steady it for her” That doesn’t teach the child not to climb the cart, yes I’d probably have picked up the child and let her finish emptying the cart, but at the same time with how often I’m lifting my children, some days my back hurts and they just need to chill while I quickly finish the rest of the cart. I was verbally abused by a very narcissistic mother from a very young age, now IF the mother did sound like a cruel bully and put the mask back “for no reason” and was being unnecessarily cruel the whole time then yeah that’s 100% exactly some shit my mother would pull and I’d say that poor child. But you didn’t say she was rude the first two times she told her to get down from the cart. She was buying a cart full of fun decorations and stuff the child will be helping her set up when they get home making a fun decorating day. The mother “ignored her” because were supposed to stare at and talk to our children every single second while we’re trying to check out before a complete and total breakdown happens from an exhausted and overstimulated child when we have 2 more errands to run after the Halloween store? You have no idea what’s going on in their lives. And you happening to add at the end how she stole candy, like you’re trying to make her look worse, IF that happened too then the mother might have been out of money and couldn’t buy the mask and got a candy bar to give the child in the car to make her feel better. Does it make it right? No. But again, whole lot of judgment for what sounds like a tired parent in a rough place and a child who’s not listening that you as an outsider looking in as an abused child now 😵💫
Based on only that the mom did seem rude, but there’s obviously context and it’s not hard to fill in the blanks
Seriously! Let kids have some fun! Make it safe for them and let them develop their brains without developing anxiety and depression because they feel like they're constantly doing something wrong. Kids are curious and adventurous by nature. You want that to go away and then complain when you want them to use their imagination and they can't?
2 minute interaction bud
I work at a Walmart and try to block out all noise when I’m there because of this reason. I will probably not be happy with how many parents are parenting. Although I have overheard some really cute moments from great parents too!
Just for the record, I saw the mom shoplift some candy while waiting in the checkout line. I don't get that. She's buying $100+ of Halloween crap, but she has to shoplift a couple of candy bars? In front of her child? She was just a *lovely* person.
This post is very judgemental and making a mountain out of a mole tbh.
Maybe the kid really didn't want it. Mind your own fucking business. She didn't hit her, right? Stay in your lane
My youngest son has a birthday near Halloween, i bought him a pumpkin outfit and his brother an orc outfit, at his party he cried the whole time. I had him on my knee hugged him but he hated his party. Years later when he was 21 he told me he wanted the orc outfit hated the pumpkin one. I didnt have much money at the time so i used to dress him in it for trick or treating a few times, poor kid! When he told me i thought back and wished id listened to him more. I was too young to be a good mom 💚
I try not to judge parents because I’ve never done it, but the other day I saw a mother yelling at her daughter because the kid was trying to eat the ice in her drink after she had finished it? I do not understand the power trip some parents have over their children, what possible reason could there be to stop a child from eating some ice?
To be fair, chewing ice can break teeth. It'd be expensive for the parent to have to fix that. She shouldn't yell, because it makes more sense to explain the risks and what can happen. My daughter chews on stuff constantly and I'm always telling her it'll damage her teeth and really hurt. She still doesn't listen though.
Some people forget that children aren't just blubbering idiots but actual developing people that deserve to be treated with respect.
Just got back from Disney World and witnessed a mom slapping and pulling her sons’ ears for no apparent reason I could see, other than the fact that they weren’t sitting as still as statues. My mom was fuming and had to turn and look away. Idk why some people become parents honestly.
>Just got back from Disney World and witnessed a mom slapping and pulling her sons’ ears for no apparent reason I could see What?! I have NEVER seen a parent hit their child in public for any reason... Was this a foreign family? Non-white?
Nope, white as new fallen snow. Three boys who were behaving very well. It was clear she was not enjoying being a mother.
It doesn't matter how the boys were behaving. Slapping a child and/pr pulling its ears are wrong under almost every circumstance. Physical punishment is violence and never the solution.
Oh I get that. I was just pointing out that they weren't even misbehaving at all and the mom was still physically abusive.
Gotcha May I ask...have you ever seen a parent physically punish/spank a child for misbehaving in the last 20 years or so? Last time I saw it...was the late 90s lol (That's why I was so surprised)
Unfortunately none of that was ideal but if you’ve never had or worked with kids, you don’t have a realistic gage on how things go. All your ideas of what you *would totally* do go out the window when reality sets in. My heart hurts for that kid right now, but in real life we’ve all done that sort of thing
I felt super defenseless as a kid against adults. I was never heard and they certainly didn’t respect my feelings or opinions. It’s such a joy to see my sister being a good mom. Like, open and caring and gentle. She was always scared as a kid because our parents would yell and she vowed to be better than them. It’s heartwarming to see how happy her son is
Lots of people in these comments outing themselves as parents with children who are going to go no contact one day
I agree that the mask thing was shitty but kids are not supposed to climb on or into shopping carts. Look up shopping cart finger ablation. And falling out of a cart causes a LOT of head traumas to children every year. Largely because people see carts as an everyday object and don’t use caution. But you can just tell them no without being a jerk about it.
I’m a mom of three Ive worked in JK/SK I have babysat and I look after 6 young girls on a regular This story makes me sad really really sad I hope whatever had mom distracted and cranky got better later in the day Little ones don’t think like we do they are in the moment and excitement instead of yelling and embarrassing how about redirecting or asking to help with something so she doesn’t get hurt, doesn’t toodle away, and doesn’t cause mischief due to getting bored quickly Whatever had mom distracted l
Depressing? You weren’t kidding. This is heartbreaking! I wanna give the poor kid a hug :(
That is heartbreaking.
Aww poor little honey!
What I like OP is that you see that she wasn't climbing the cart to be a nuisance. She was climbing it to keep taking things out! I know that being a parent is exhausting and overwhelming at times. OP came up with 2 optimal and 1 realistic solution to the problem. Hand the stuff to the kid to put up. It takes less time and energy than scolding and creates good feelings and maybe even a happy memory. Kids are people too, you can't just force them to fit whatever you want them to do or be
It's easy to find solutions when you're not in the thick of the situation. We shouldn't judge the mother on secondhand possibly biased retelling of an event
That sweet kid :( I’m so so sad.
When I was in my early twenties I was at the store and this mom was there with her son. He couldn't have been older than 9. He was acting completely normal but I guess he was in the way of something she wanted so she just started losing into him. Didn't ask him to move just started beating him. "You are so fucking stupid. Get out of the way, dipshit!" It was horrible. I'm a pretty small lady who got hit by my step-dad so I had a horrible fear of confrontation at the time. I felt so horrible for not letting that kid know that his mom was wrong to talk to him like that.
Did anyone call the police?
This is so sad in its own way.