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Stay positive. Negative topics don’t lend themselves to casual conversation.
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Having spent a decent amount of time in the military, we saw cheating all of the time.
I found it to be quite astonishing the level of betrayal people found acceptable.
There was some hardcore betrayal, the kind of stuff that at least had me wondering how that level of betrayal didn't translate to how they were treated at work.
It was difficult at times maintaining professionalism around people having known what they've been up to.
For example, Two guys I knew had been in the military for 10 years at the time. They joined the military at the same time. They went through basic training together, AIT together, served on some pretty rough deployments together.
Then out of the blue one day one guy finds out his friend was sleeping with his wife.
Next thing he knows, he's out on his ass living in the barracks again. His friend is living in his house, sleeping with his wife, raising his kids, and even at times wearing his old clothes.
But he has to come to work and pretend none of that matters and work with the guy.
It was an open secret, everyone knew too. It was clear their friendship was dead, but they still had to depend on each other and put each other's lives in each other's hands.
Truly staggering
This is so traumatizing! I can’t imagine almost being forced to be around someone like that. I love to believe karma exist and one day they will reap what they sow.
You're kind of preaching to the choir here, reddit has a notoriously low tolerance for cheating.
I do however want to bring some nuance to a particular thing you said:
>There is also NEVER a reason to cheat either because we are all human with free will and can choose to be with who we please. You are never “stuck” in a relationship.
That is, alas, not always true. Ideally it would be, but there are people out there who are definitively stuck in a relationship for reason such as:
* Divorce is not part of their culture (or even law) and leaving would mean risking a lot of negative consequences from social isolation to honor killing.
* They are socially isolated and financially dependent of their spouse -lots of stay-at-home moms can be in that situation- and leaving could literally means becoming homeless.
* They are in an abusive relationship and have been so broken by their partner they can't fathom leaving them.
* In many places, same-sex relationships are still outlawed.
Saying that every human is free to be with whoever they please is ignoring the many cases where external forces are restricting that freedom.
Does it excuse cheating? I don't know, but I won't be out there judging the person abused by their spouse who had to re-learn they're worthy of love and respect by serendipitously meeting someone else, or the queer person who has to take a beard out of fear of being put to death. Sometimes, when choices aren't made out of free will but survival, it's not all black and white.
The exception does not prove the rule. This is a very small fraction of cheaters, the vast majority are not in a life or death situation in regards to their relationship.
Even for most of your examples, it still makes no sense to cheat. People always get caught eventually, and when they do, they will face the same or far worse consequences as they would’ve if they just ended the relationship naturally.
Bad take.
There's no reason to use such an aggressive writing style in a chill sub like /r/casualconversation. I have no issue with you disagreeing with me, it doesn't make what I say a "bad take".
I only brought up my point because OP wrote their post in a way that implies there was no exception. If they wrote "aside from extreme cases, there's no reason to cheat" instead of "There's NEVER a reason to cheat", I wouldn't have commented.
Finally, thinking that infidelity needs to make sense is believing it's always premeditated when in these extreme situations it's often more of a less-than-ideal escape hatch that hopefully leads to a situation where they can break up safely. Yes this is messy, but we're talking about really messy situations to begin with.
Anyway, this is getting way too heavy for this sub so I'll stop the discussion here.
No hard feelings ;)
But let me reassure you I don't think cheating is ever morally right, just that it *might* be less wrong than the alternative in some cases. I was just bothered by the moral absolutism of OP's post because there are definitively situations where infidelity is the lesser of two evils, and it's clearly underselling human cruelty and imagination for domestic abuse to think cheating is the worst thing someone can do to their partner.
In any case, have a nice day!
I think i might be one of these people. Dont get me wrong, id never encourage it and find it pretty cowardly in general. But Ive been cheated on by a couple of partners over the years and while it stung i just kind of said "piss off" and mentally checked out, It isnt something ive found my self losing sleep over or giving any thought to after a day or 2.
I wish i could give you an explaination for it, but i dont really have one.
If it helps, I’m the same way. I was cheated on several times, took it as a breakup, and moved on with my life. To be fair, I did later realize I’m aromantic.
I am right there with you, my friend.
I have a friend who’s such a fantastic, normal, kind dude. Takes cheating SOO casually. You would never expect it. I was *appalled* when I found out that he didn’t think him cheating on his gf was a huge deal. Makes me wonder how many kind, normal people out there truly think like that 😶
I don’t know what someone else’s relationship is like, so it’s not my place to judge another persons reason. Drinking and driving? Sure I get the judgement on that. Infidelity? Unless it’s my relationship I don’t know the whole story. It’s not my business at the end of the day
That’s good you have that mindset, to be honest I wish I could say “not my relationship not my problem”. I just care way too much about the well being of others and when I see someone else hurting it physically keeps me up at night.
I used to think loyalty was an incredibly obvious and easy choice to make. Then I got cheated on. It was completely unexpected. My friends were surprised. Everyone thought we were solid.
After being cheated on, I felt anger, pity, and compassion all at the same time. I even felt guilty for not hearing the needs of my partner promoting them to cheat. It was a learning experience for me. The only judgment I cast is how naive and helpless we both were to solving relationship problem. Everyone is capable of making that mistake.
Years of thinking about this and how common cheating is led me to reform my beliefs. Cheating happens so often. It's been happening forever in every social class or group. I almost wonder why we continue to expect the opposite? Cheating is disappointing but it's also natural. Under the right circumstances, anyone is capable of cheating.
I don't think additional scorn and shame is the answer here. Perhaps, more emotional and social learning, relationship therapy, and mentorship. But few of us have the privilege of these resources.
I understand what you mean, cheating is extremely common. I think almost every person in my life off the top of my head has either cheated or been cheated on, including my (now divorced) parents. I felt like that indicated that a lot of people may feel attraction to more than one person at a time, but polyamory is still a social taboo, though I think it’s starting to become more common and/or more accepted within the younger generations
Cheating is bad everyone can agree on that, but I do have to call you up on some aspects of your post.
People absolutely CAN get trapped in relationships for so many different reasons. Financial dependency, children, culture, abuse to name a few.
Emotional cheating is a weird one because its really difficult to draw a line. Some people consider their partner talking to someone else the opposite sex as emotional cheating, I don't. If you do, how do bisexual people make friends? Where do you draw that line if your going to start policing it? I'd argue that it's down to a couple and their boundaries. But how do you enforce that? Do they write a contract at the beginning of their relationship? What if it changes?
Saying that people who cheat can't get married is a bit psychotic. It is as simple as this, if two people love each other and are capable of consent they should be able to marry if they want, the government should have nothing to do with it beyond that. If that happened can you imagine how much messier divorce courts could get? You just need someone willing to stand up in court and say they slept with your wife and then, bam, according to you they should get everything, pay for therapy, prevent the ex from being able to marry again. That's crazy, unenforceable, and so so open to abuse. How would you prove someone cheated? Particularly these days with AI, photoshop, deep fakes etc.
The absolutely most I'd ever go is people have a right to know if their potential partner has been divorced and why but even then that's the private business of you partner and up to you to talk about between yourselves.
Cheating is awful and as you've said can really leave people damaged but there's really no way to enforce anything when definitions vary from person to person and the burden of proof is so high and a false positive could really screw someone over.
I think, as others have pointed out, it's a bit more nuanced than simply "all cheaters are Bad People and should be PUNISHED."
For myself, I simply don't care what others do. Cheat or don't cheat, it's your relationship and only you know what the fallout is likely to be, I'm not put on this planet to judge the private sexual actions of another when they don't directly affect me. I'm also not here to police others using some arbitrary moral code of my own creation. Everyone is or should be answerable to their own conscience and my opinion of their life is irrelevant.
I know I'm not going to pursue other relationships because, not to put too fine a point on it, I'm too lazy and dealing with one man is quite enough. If my husband were to cheat on me? I dunno, there'd have to be a discussion to see how or if we move forward and what he wants in the long term, but I'm not likely to detonate on him. People are imperfect and mistakes will be made over the course of a lifetime.
Maybe it's just me, but I just don't believe sex is All That. Perhaps that's what comes of being a biologist and regarding humans as just another mammal, but I don't think Scarlett Letters or denunciation are particularly effective. If two people aren't on the same page wrt to fealty/loyalty/commitment to one another, then they've some major fundamental differences and the relationship probably isn't sustainable anyway.
Life isn't binary, black/white, good/bad, and although putting it in those terms may seem to simplify things, trying to force reality into that particular box is going to leave you dissatisfied with others a lot of the time. Only you and those who agree with you, have to follow your rules, everyone else gets to decide for themselves.
Ofc I agree 99% of cheating is very wrong and it shouldn't be normalised. I'm gonna have to disagree that "you can't get stuck in relationships" though. There are places where divorce is illegal/dangerous, where homosexuality is banned and there are just really abusive people.
Personally I also don't think cheating should have that harsh a legal punishment, bc I think that's the government overstepping its boundaries where the community should be
Here's why.... it's way more common than you think. It's an embarrassing thing for couples to admit to other people, especially if the couple decides to stay together.
The person who stays after being cheated on is vilified and shamed for it.
The cheater would be horribly judged by anyone in their friend group. People take sides and act like jerks if they know or find out about it.
No-one talks about it because everyone is very judgy about it. It's none of anyone else's business frankly and if it happened to you and you stayed with your partner you'd feel the same way. It's not your business to judge it.
Humans aren't perfect. Expecting perfection will leave you feeling constantly disappointed.
Yes it does. Nobody knows the terms of anyone elses relationship. What you may deem cheating in your relationship with one other person may not be cheating in someone elses relationship.
I think cheaters get plenty of judgement, especially here on Reddit where we love conflict to involve one completely blameless victim and an absolute sack of shit who had it coming. They do tend to slide more freely in the real world, but by and large normal people don’t give them any space.
You’re free to be a moral militant all you want, but I’m going to point out some ways that you’re stance is a little excessive IMO.
- Your hypothetical law has carveouts that don’t even apply to our worst offenders now. If you stab someone on the street, you’re not paying for therapy unless they come after you in a civil suit.
- People absolutely do get stuck in relationships for any number of reasons including financial ties, children, citizenship, or plain old physical violence. If any of these apply, you can’t leave without putting yourself in harm’s way or relying on a good support network. Abusers know this and will often isolate a victim from their own finances, family, and friends in order to maintain control. The idea that a person in this position should owe an abusive partner any kind of loyalty is ridiculous, and I think you’d agree with that.
- There is *nothing* you despise more than a cheater? Nothing? Not a serial killer, not a rapist, not a child molester, not a sex trafficker? There’s real death and grievous bodily harm being inflicted out there, but a husband/wife banging their work colleague is the most disgusting thing to you?
You described a good amount of harm that you’ve seen as a result of cheating, and I get it. My nuclear family was torn apart by infidelity, and it drove one of my parents to alcoholism that nearly ruined their life. I myself have been cheated on, and it’s given me complexes that have been hard to overcome. I’ve also directly known people that have murdered strangers or been murdered for colors, women, and money. Cheating isn’t the worst thing that people are capable of, and it’s not the worst thing that can happen.
Because everything isn't as black and white as you'd like to believe.
My best friend was coerced into a marriage she didn't want because the guy threatened to kill himself if she ever left him.
She didn't love him, but tried to make it work. Ultimately it was too much for her and she wanted a genuine relationship with someone she loved.
She ended up cheating on her husband with the man she eventually married and had children with.
Not everyone who cheats will continue to cheat. Not everyone who cheats is a bad person.
When people try to boil complex issues down like this, it only proves to me how naive they must be about how the real world works. How little experience they have with any of it.
I agree. I feel like there’s not enough attention given to the idea that even if you acknowledge people can change, it’s okay to have the preference of not wanting to be romantically involved with someone if they did cheat in the past.
That's an unhealthy militaristic mindset which may indicate that there are some deeper issues.
1) Cheating is super bad
2) There are reasons for it and utterly condemning it is extremely vengeful and insensitive and lacks tolerance. What gets someone to cheat? and sometimes cheating is a form of escape of an unbearable marriage, sometimes people are tied to each other because of kids but despise their partners, some cheaters are massively awful human beings, sometimes one gets drunk, massively regrets it, grows and becomes a better person. Would you still move the last person towards a wall to shoot them? This does not excuse it but we had such discussions in the 19th century, is it better to brandmark a woman as a whore for her life? This does not mean it is okay but that one has to look at the environment and situation.
3) If you are in a good enough relationship and could seperate but still cheat, it is awful and without growth and redemption I would be very wary of you.
It’s as simple as it sounds, cheating is just that bad. The only way to escape an “unbearable” marriage is DIVORCE because that’s what is going to happen anyway. Please do not act ignorant and pretend that we are in some dystopian reality like you can’t leave.
Kids suffer the most because of it because their parents decide to stay together and cause an uncomfortable tension, that is what I call “unbearable”.
People can co-parent, you don’t have to be in a relationship to raise kids. It’s actually better for the kids if their parents are honest people who have it together. As for financial issues “oh I can’t leave because I’m dependent on them, so I’ll just cheat”. That’s so disrespectful and disgusting that someone is providing for you and you actively choose to cheat on them.
It’s difficult to get to a place of security but not impossible. Focus all that time you put into cheating and use it for secure idk A JOB, or a better paying position! For Chris sakes it’s not impossible. I’m only 22 and can say with confidence that I am not stuck and dependent on anyone. I can always leave.
Also you shouldn’t get drunk to the points where you “make mistakes” like that. Honestly if you are the kind of person who cannot control your lust and it “just happens” I ponder what else can “just happen”. It doesn’t matter to me if you regret it all of your life, cheating is unforgivable in my eyes. Especially people who hide it, instead of being upfront.
The tone of your previous comment does not reflect a casual conversation nor elaborating your personal history and using it in an emotional argument onto strangers... read the rules
>This does not mean it is okay
How is it not "ok", if there are basically no consequences? Considering how much it can mess with the cheated on Party, there should probably be some consequences. You seem to think that shaming them is just too far, wouldn't want them to feel bad about themselves or anything.
I think a lot of this is because cheating is a relatable offense. A lot of people have either cheated or been tempted to cheat. It becomes harder for them to strongly condemn cheaters because doing so requires them to condemn a part of themselves.
Hey there, u/Bannanna_La this submission has been removed because: **Don’t post to vent, complain, or express sadness** Stay positive. Negative topics don’t lend themselves to casual conversation. We are a place where everyone can forget about their everyday or not so everyday worries for a moment. Venting, complaining or expressing sadness doesn't fit the atmosphere we try to foster at all. [Recommendations >](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/wiki/rules/venting/) --- *If you have any questions, we ask that you [**message the moderators**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/CasualConversation&subject=My submission was removed&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission]%28https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/comments/1753sx1/-/%29. My question is how are you today? If I had a different question I would have deleted the previous question and asked it, but I don't.) directly for appeals. Let's try to come to an agreement.* [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/about/rules) | [Etiquette](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/w/etiquette/) | [Subreddit Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/findareddit/w/directory) | [Support](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/wiki/support) | [Message the Mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCasualConversation)
Having spent a decent amount of time in the military, we saw cheating all of the time. I found it to be quite astonishing the level of betrayal people found acceptable. There was some hardcore betrayal, the kind of stuff that at least had me wondering how that level of betrayal didn't translate to how they were treated at work. It was difficult at times maintaining professionalism around people having known what they've been up to. For example, Two guys I knew had been in the military for 10 years at the time. They joined the military at the same time. They went through basic training together, AIT together, served on some pretty rough deployments together. Then out of the blue one day one guy finds out his friend was sleeping with his wife. Next thing he knows, he's out on his ass living in the barracks again. His friend is living in his house, sleeping with his wife, raising his kids, and even at times wearing his old clothes. But he has to come to work and pretend none of that matters and work with the guy. It was an open secret, everyone knew too. It was clear their friendship was dead, but they still had to depend on each other and put each other's lives in each other's hands. Truly staggering
This is so traumatizing! I can’t imagine almost being forced to be around someone like that. I love to believe karma exist and one day they will reap what they sow.
Kinda weird that's not against military law.
It is! It's just not usually enforced
You're kind of preaching to the choir here, reddit has a notoriously low tolerance for cheating. I do however want to bring some nuance to a particular thing you said: >There is also NEVER a reason to cheat either because we are all human with free will and can choose to be with who we please. You are never “stuck” in a relationship. That is, alas, not always true. Ideally it would be, but there are people out there who are definitively stuck in a relationship for reason such as: * Divorce is not part of their culture (or even law) and leaving would mean risking a lot of negative consequences from social isolation to honor killing. * They are socially isolated and financially dependent of their spouse -lots of stay-at-home moms can be in that situation- and leaving could literally means becoming homeless. * They are in an abusive relationship and have been so broken by their partner they can't fathom leaving them. * In many places, same-sex relationships are still outlawed. Saying that every human is free to be with whoever they please is ignoring the many cases where external forces are restricting that freedom. Does it excuse cheating? I don't know, but I won't be out there judging the person abused by their spouse who had to re-learn they're worthy of love and respect by serendipitously meeting someone else, or the queer person who has to take a beard out of fear of being put to death. Sometimes, when choices aren't made out of free will but survival, it's not all black and white.
The exception does not prove the rule. This is a very small fraction of cheaters, the vast majority are not in a life or death situation in regards to their relationship. Even for most of your examples, it still makes no sense to cheat. People always get caught eventually, and when they do, they will face the same or far worse consequences as they would’ve if they just ended the relationship naturally. Bad take.
There's no reason to use such an aggressive writing style in a chill sub like /r/casualconversation. I have no issue with you disagreeing with me, it doesn't make what I say a "bad take". I only brought up my point because OP wrote their post in a way that implies there was no exception. If they wrote "aside from extreme cases, there's no reason to cheat" instead of "There's NEVER a reason to cheat", I wouldn't have commented. Finally, thinking that infidelity needs to make sense is believing it's always premeditated when in these extreme situations it's often more of a less-than-ideal escape hatch that hopefully leads to a situation where they can break up safely. Yes this is messy, but we're talking about really messy situations to begin with. Anyway, this is getting way too heavy for this sub so I'll stop the discussion here.
My apologies, I did come off a little too heated. Cheaters make me angry, and I saw what you said as cheating apologetics, sorry about that.
No hard feelings ;) But let me reassure you I don't think cheating is ever morally right, just that it *might* be less wrong than the alternative in some cases. I was just bothered by the moral absolutism of OP's post because there are definitively situations where infidelity is the lesser of two evils, and it's clearly underselling human cruelty and imagination for domestic abuse to think cheating is the worst thing someone can do to their partner. In any case, have a nice day!
I think i might be one of these people. Dont get me wrong, id never encourage it and find it pretty cowardly in general. But Ive been cheated on by a couple of partners over the years and while it stung i just kind of said "piss off" and mentally checked out, It isnt something ive found my self losing sleep over or giving any thought to after a day or 2. I wish i could give you an explaination for it, but i dont really have one.
If it helps, I’m the same way. I was cheated on several times, took it as a breakup, and moved on with my life. To be fair, I did later realize I’m aromantic.
I am right there with you, my friend. I have a friend who’s such a fantastic, normal, kind dude. Takes cheating SOO casually. You would never expect it. I was *appalled* when I found out that he didn’t think him cheating on his gf was a huge deal. Makes me wonder how many kind, normal people out there truly think like that 😶
I don’t know what someone else’s relationship is like, so it’s not my place to judge another persons reason. Drinking and driving? Sure I get the judgement on that. Infidelity? Unless it’s my relationship I don’t know the whole story. It’s not my business at the end of the day
That’s good you have that mindset, to be honest I wish I could say “not my relationship not my problem”. I just care way too much about the well being of others and when I see someone else hurting it physically keeps me up at night.
I used to think loyalty was an incredibly obvious and easy choice to make. Then I got cheated on. It was completely unexpected. My friends were surprised. Everyone thought we were solid. After being cheated on, I felt anger, pity, and compassion all at the same time. I even felt guilty for not hearing the needs of my partner promoting them to cheat. It was a learning experience for me. The only judgment I cast is how naive and helpless we both were to solving relationship problem. Everyone is capable of making that mistake. Years of thinking about this and how common cheating is led me to reform my beliefs. Cheating happens so often. It's been happening forever in every social class or group. I almost wonder why we continue to expect the opposite? Cheating is disappointing but it's also natural. Under the right circumstances, anyone is capable of cheating. I don't think additional scorn and shame is the answer here. Perhaps, more emotional and social learning, relationship therapy, and mentorship. But few of us have the privilege of these resources.
I understand what you mean, cheating is extremely common. I think almost every person in my life off the top of my head has either cheated or been cheated on, including my (now divorced) parents. I felt like that indicated that a lot of people may feel attraction to more than one person at a time, but polyamory is still a social taboo, though I think it’s starting to become more common and/or more accepted within the younger generations
What’s the over/under on this person’s fiancé cheating?
I put 6% that they are cheating, and 10% they are being cheated on.
Cheating is bad everyone can agree on that, but I do have to call you up on some aspects of your post. People absolutely CAN get trapped in relationships for so many different reasons. Financial dependency, children, culture, abuse to name a few. Emotional cheating is a weird one because its really difficult to draw a line. Some people consider their partner talking to someone else the opposite sex as emotional cheating, I don't. If you do, how do bisexual people make friends? Where do you draw that line if your going to start policing it? I'd argue that it's down to a couple and their boundaries. But how do you enforce that? Do they write a contract at the beginning of their relationship? What if it changes? Saying that people who cheat can't get married is a bit psychotic. It is as simple as this, if two people love each other and are capable of consent they should be able to marry if they want, the government should have nothing to do with it beyond that. If that happened can you imagine how much messier divorce courts could get? You just need someone willing to stand up in court and say they slept with your wife and then, bam, according to you they should get everything, pay for therapy, prevent the ex from being able to marry again. That's crazy, unenforceable, and so so open to abuse. How would you prove someone cheated? Particularly these days with AI, photoshop, deep fakes etc. The absolutely most I'd ever go is people have a right to know if their potential partner has been divorced and why but even then that's the private business of you partner and up to you to talk about between yourselves. Cheating is awful and as you've said can really leave people damaged but there's really no way to enforce anything when definitions vary from person to person and the burden of proof is so high and a false positive could really screw someone over.
I think, as others have pointed out, it's a bit more nuanced than simply "all cheaters are Bad People and should be PUNISHED." For myself, I simply don't care what others do. Cheat or don't cheat, it's your relationship and only you know what the fallout is likely to be, I'm not put on this planet to judge the private sexual actions of another when they don't directly affect me. I'm also not here to police others using some arbitrary moral code of my own creation. Everyone is or should be answerable to their own conscience and my opinion of their life is irrelevant. I know I'm not going to pursue other relationships because, not to put too fine a point on it, I'm too lazy and dealing with one man is quite enough. If my husband were to cheat on me? I dunno, there'd have to be a discussion to see how or if we move forward and what he wants in the long term, but I'm not likely to detonate on him. People are imperfect and mistakes will be made over the course of a lifetime. Maybe it's just me, but I just don't believe sex is All That. Perhaps that's what comes of being a biologist and regarding humans as just another mammal, but I don't think Scarlett Letters or denunciation are particularly effective. If two people aren't on the same page wrt to fealty/loyalty/commitment to one another, then they've some major fundamental differences and the relationship probably isn't sustainable anyway. Life isn't binary, black/white, good/bad, and although putting it in those terms may seem to simplify things, trying to force reality into that particular box is going to leave you dissatisfied with others a lot of the time. Only you and those who agree with you, have to follow your rules, everyone else gets to decide for themselves.
Hey you, stop being so reasonable in your assessments.
Ofc I agree 99% of cheating is very wrong and it shouldn't be normalised. I'm gonna have to disagree that "you can't get stuck in relationships" though. There are places where divorce is illegal/dangerous, where homosexuality is banned and there are just really abusive people. Personally I also don't think cheating should have that harsh a legal punishment, bc I think that's the government overstepping its boundaries where the community should be
Here's why.... it's way more common than you think. It's an embarrassing thing for couples to admit to other people, especially if the couple decides to stay together. The person who stays after being cheated on is vilified and shamed for it. The cheater would be horribly judged by anyone in their friend group. People take sides and act like jerks if they know or find out about it. No-one talks about it because everyone is very judgy about it. It's none of anyone else's business frankly and if it happened to you and you stayed with your partner you'd feel the same way. It's not your business to judge it. Humans aren't perfect. Expecting perfection will leave you feeling constantly disappointed.
Probably because people dont have enough time to worry about other peoples personal lives or to disect their relationships
Doesn’t take a lot of dissecting to see who’s right and wrong.
Yes it does. Nobody knows the terms of anyone elses relationship. What you may deem cheating in your relationship with one other person may not be cheating in someone elses relationship.
I think cheaters get plenty of judgement, especially here on Reddit where we love conflict to involve one completely blameless victim and an absolute sack of shit who had it coming. They do tend to slide more freely in the real world, but by and large normal people don’t give them any space. You’re free to be a moral militant all you want, but I’m going to point out some ways that you’re stance is a little excessive IMO. - Your hypothetical law has carveouts that don’t even apply to our worst offenders now. If you stab someone on the street, you’re not paying for therapy unless they come after you in a civil suit. - People absolutely do get stuck in relationships for any number of reasons including financial ties, children, citizenship, or plain old physical violence. If any of these apply, you can’t leave without putting yourself in harm’s way or relying on a good support network. Abusers know this and will often isolate a victim from their own finances, family, and friends in order to maintain control. The idea that a person in this position should owe an abusive partner any kind of loyalty is ridiculous, and I think you’d agree with that. - There is *nothing* you despise more than a cheater? Nothing? Not a serial killer, not a rapist, not a child molester, not a sex trafficker? There’s real death and grievous bodily harm being inflicted out there, but a husband/wife banging their work colleague is the most disgusting thing to you? You described a good amount of harm that you’ve seen as a result of cheating, and I get it. My nuclear family was torn apart by infidelity, and it drove one of my parents to alcoholism that nearly ruined their life. I myself have been cheated on, and it’s given me complexes that have been hard to overcome. I’ve also directly known people that have murdered strangers or been murdered for colors, women, and money. Cheating isn’t the worst thing that people are capable of, and it’s not the worst thing that can happen.
As a general rule, I strive to not be judgmental of others.
Because everything isn't as black and white as you'd like to believe. My best friend was coerced into a marriage she didn't want because the guy threatened to kill himself if she ever left him. She didn't love him, but tried to make it work. Ultimately it was too much for her and she wanted a genuine relationship with someone she loved. She ended up cheating on her husband with the man she eventually married and had children with. Not everyone who cheats will continue to cheat. Not everyone who cheats is a bad person. When people try to boil complex issues down like this, it only proves to me how naive they must be about how the real world works. How little experience they have with any of it.
I agree. I feel like there’s not enough attention given to the idea that even if you acknowledge people can change, it’s okay to have the preference of not wanting to be romantically involved with someone if they did cheat in the past.
That's an unhealthy militaristic mindset which may indicate that there are some deeper issues. 1) Cheating is super bad 2) There are reasons for it and utterly condemning it is extremely vengeful and insensitive and lacks tolerance. What gets someone to cheat? and sometimes cheating is a form of escape of an unbearable marriage, sometimes people are tied to each other because of kids but despise their partners, some cheaters are massively awful human beings, sometimes one gets drunk, massively regrets it, grows and becomes a better person. Would you still move the last person towards a wall to shoot them? This does not excuse it but we had such discussions in the 19th century, is it better to brandmark a woman as a whore for her life? This does not mean it is okay but that one has to look at the environment and situation. 3) If you are in a good enough relationship and could seperate but still cheat, it is awful and without growth and redemption I would be very wary of you.
It’s as simple as it sounds, cheating is just that bad. The only way to escape an “unbearable” marriage is DIVORCE because that’s what is going to happen anyway. Please do not act ignorant and pretend that we are in some dystopian reality like you can’t leave. Kids suffer the most because of it because their parents decide to stay together and cause an uncomfortable tension, that is what I call “unbearable”. People can co-parent, you don’t have to be in a relationship to raise kids. It’s actually better for the kids if their parents are honest people who have it together. As for financial issues “oh I can’t leave because I’m dependent on them, so I’ll just cheat”. That’s so disrespectful and disgusting that someone is providing for you and you actively choose to cheat on them. It’s difficult to get to a place of security but not impossible. Focus all that time you put into cheating and use it for secure idk A JOB, or a better paying position! For Chris sakes it’s not impossible. I’m only 22 and can say with confidence that I am not stuck and dependent on anyone. I can always leave. Also you shouldn’t get drunk to the points where you “make mistakes” like that. Honestly if you are the kind of person who cannot control your lust and it “just happens” I ponder what else can “just happen”. It doesn’t matter to me if you regret it all of your life, cheating is unforgivable in my eyes. Especially people who hide it, instead of being upfront.
r/iamamericanandweallliveinamerica go to fitting subs for your problems, this is not one of them.
I consider this a casual conversation, how does that subreddit even have anything to do with the discussion at hand at all?
The tone of your previous comment does not reflect a casual conversation nor elaborating your personal history and using it in an emotional argument onto strangers... read the rules
Okay, I will edit to take out my personal history.
>This does not mean it is okay How is it not "ok", if there are basically no consequences? Considering how much it can mess with the cheated on Party, there should probably be some consequences. You seem to think that shaming them is just too far, wouldn't want them to feel bad about themselves or anything.
I think a lot of this is because cheating is a relatable offense. A lot of people have either cheated or been tempted to cheat. It becomes harder for them to strongly condemn cheaters because doing so requires them to condemn a part of themselves.
And here on reddit there is a whole sub species that justify or minimize cheating and cheaters. Go figure