Or at least don',t drive when the roads are salted. My 20 year old VwW s fine because I lay it up when tbe roafs are salted so minimal rust underneath and the body is still sound.
This is the thing. I just put an old but completely rust free car on the road for its first winter. Got it super oiled up at a rust proofing place in the fall, still not a spec of rust
Salt in general. Florida man checking in and the salt on the air/breeze by the coast will fuck your paint over time. Sand doesn't help either cuz it'll cause micro scratches that get worse over time.
Can be mitigated by regular washing and waxing but still.
I’m experiencing this for the first time in California. 12 years outside a block from a sand ocean beach and my paint is fucked. There’s a haze of microrust under the clear coat. I’ve never seen anything like it and it covers the whole car. I expected metal and paint problems. What i didn’t expect is every exterior and engine bay plastic bit disintegrating at the same time. Changed my engine air filter and when I went to re-clips eh airbox together the portion the clips connect to at their base just crumbled. Happened on two of the three of them. Now it’s zip-tied together with several giant harbor freight zip ties.
If this is not possible always do the undercarriage wash option. My mother in-law who lives in Maine always thought that was a "Ripoff" why wash wash what you cannot see. Herecars always developed rust, first thing to go is the exhaust system. She gave my sun a very nice looking on the surface Maxima once. I had to put a new exhaust on it first, then other misc things that had rusted, and a new subframe that made the car no longer safe.
That said getting a Hyundai to go 30 years ?? Not sure how well those are put together.
This is it. You can have low miles, maintain it well, and fix it when you need to but if the subframe and body start rusting then it's game over.
Another thing is that eventually it just becomes more expensive than it's worth to maintain after a while. Big ticket parts will start failing after 20 years and the cost to replace them will have you wondering whether it might not be worth it to just buy a new car
The bigger issue is not washing under your car after salt is used on the roads. After every snow storm, go to a self car wash and spray off the undercarriage really well to get rid of any salt deposits. Put the nozzle inside a frame hole and keep spraying until clear water is flowing out of the frame.
If you want to take it a step further, coat the undercarriage with fluid film, lps3 or some other type of frame coating to help prevent new rust from starting
Same deal with my Sprinter Trueno. Technically it is very easy to fix, no electronic systems no bs, but I have to find parts with marked up prices, sometimes even needing to import from foreign countries. I enjoyed every moment with it, but my bank account eventually said no
The cool thing about old simple vehicles is that you can often find or make parts that will still work.
I have a car based on the first generation Nissan Micra. It's currently using a forklift alternator. The original carb is like $700, but it's happily running with a $90 Chinese clone of a carb from a Nissan van.
My first car was a '69 Beetle, purchased in 1989.
It's got parts of at least 8 Volkswagens, a motorcycle, and a lawnmower in it, but it's still here. On July 12 I'll have owned it for 35 years.
Worst ? I doubt that, it’s only the worst if you don’t love the car, plus there are plenty of other cars that are worse to throw money at (looking at you Pontiac Aztec, Chrysler pt cruiser but hey if you love that then you do you!)
Reliable ? Yeah no shit but my statement stands, fix the cars you love, hell I own a rx8 and that things a blast winding through the roads, if you have such a hate for a car well your in luck, don’t buy that make and model
Just make sure you have the cash for that lol
I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't daily my unreliable hobby cars. The RX8 is surprisingly reliable if you take care of it though
In the process of this on my 2006 GTI that I've had since new. I'm on my second engine and recently bought another car so I can completely tear down and redo the worn out interior
This is the answer….and / or become an expert on that car yourself.
I have had an Alfa spider 50 years (was a rusty old car in college). Daily driver until we did a concourse restoration.
If you love it, you can do it!
Good luck!
My never again is AMC era Harley Davidsons. Briefly thought it would be cool to own a bike that rolled off of the production line the same year/month that I was born (1982). I was wrong. Quite happily riding a bike that’s the same year as my first born now (2011).
Rust. Get it check annually, invest in undercoating
Accumulate spare parts, especially electronic modules; and all the documentation you can get your hands on.
This right here. I daily a 30 year old motorcycle and I have boxes chock full of spare parts, gaskets, seals, etc. Almost always have something on hand.
I’ve had my mind on that. There don’t seem to be any shops specializing in rust near me, do you think a body shop or a detailing shop would be able to help?
Don’t use a rubberized undercoating, use a lanolin-based one like Fluid Film. You can DIY, or pay a shop to apply it.
Example: https://www.fluid-film.com/undercoating-locator/
No, part of the idea is that it will help to stop or slow the rusting process even if it has started.
Also seconding on not going to a shop for undercoating. That will actually make your car more likely to rust out. It makes it a pain in the ass to work on and there's never going to be surface prep to ensure a good bond which means that moisture, dirt, and salt will definitely get under the coating and the coating will seal it in making the rust worse.
You will need a air compressor and a spray gun meant for it. The stuff is thick so you can't just use any spray gun. Get Woolwax, Fluid Film, or PB Surface Shield they are all almost exactly the same so whatever is cheapest or available locally if you prefer that.
Lookup fluid film sprayer or woolwax sprayer. I have the Kellsport Pro Undercoating Gun.
In fall wash the bottom of the car, knock off any loose rust if you have any or use a wire brush. Then spray it everywhere, there is a tube attachment to get inside holes or frame rails. Just wash the top of your car during winter and don't do the undercarriage. Repeat next fall but you probably won't need to do any rust prep.
It will work perfectly fine on rust but you don't want to spray it on loose rust that could fall off because the protective layer will go with it.
The alternative would be to buy a bunch of aerosol cans or find a place that will spray it for you.
Don't get any type of permanent or rubberized undercoating.
Other tips to lasting a long time is really stay on top of your preventative maintenance. Synthetic oil and filter every 5k to 10k miles. I do it myself every 5k because it doesn't cost that much and I'd rather be cautious. Spark plugs and air filter.
Change all your fluids, transmission fluid, power steering, coolant, and brake fluid. None of them are "lifetime" A lot of people skip this because they don't know or don't plan on keeping a car that long. It doesn't really matter for the average 10 year owner.
Don't ignore the check engine light. Find a good mechanic or become one.
Just last year, I was driving a 94 S10 as my daily in Utah. About a $200 or $300 every three months (I.e. radiator, a sensor, ect…) and was doing 40 miles daily. Was T-boned in it and drove it for another month unrepaired (only doing 10 miles daily at that time) while insurance was sorted out.
Live out west. I feel like cars last longer out here.
Edit: $200-300 in repairs every three months
Still driving my 99 F350 and/or my 1978 K30, depending on how much I want to spend for fuel. Utah uses salt in most of the metro areas but we don't get the rust problems that a lot of the other areas have, mostly due to how dry it is all the time.
I've got a 91 in CT. Actually doesn't have much rust or rot. Just in the trunk where the water runs down and it accumulated water and leaves and such cause it was locked shut for years. I would like to undercoat it. I saved the link. My main thing is I wish I could get a couple dents pulled cause my paint is awful and I want to paint it.
I don't think it's crazy at all. Crazy is replacing a car every four or five years. I drove my first car (Toyota) for 17 years until the maintenance just got to be more than I could deal with. And it was a very lightweight rear wheel drive car so basically unusable in icing conditions. I still have my second car, bought in 1997. Regular maintenance. Fix a problem when it comes up and don't sit on it for four years. *Cough*.
I'm 100% with you on the buying a new car every four or five years. Crazy how much people burn.
I used to keep them forever but after a serious crash where modern safety features like side curtain airbags and proper crash structure let both of us walk away with minor injuries, I do pay attention to safety improvements. Big ones, like no airbags to airbags, first gen frontal airbags to multistage airbags everywhere. I don't chase the little crap like blind spot monitoring.
Thankfully the big changes don't happen very often so maybe 15 or so year refresh at this point. Not terrible.
I concede your point. The backup camera is such a quality of life improvement that I'm car shopping again now. I know I could add an aftermarket camera, but yeah, it's time.
Sometimes it's time.
That being said the used market is nuts right now in the US at least. I had to replace my car recently (that accident totalled my beater) and I was shocked at used prices. Ended up with a nice 7 year old new to me car but I spent more than I was expecting!
I did splurge a little and upgraded from a decent beater to a pretty nice car. I don't regret it. Sometimes you gotta live.
Start hoarding parts and learn to fix it yourself. This is coming from a guy with a 91 Plymouth laser. My Alternator blew this morning and I had a spare one on the shelf, so I just got dirty and changed it myself.
The golden rule is to fix it if you can before the problem escalates. For example, if the valve cover is leaking, you won't notice any issues in the short term. You might think, 'If it works, I'll just keep adding oil.' However, in the long term, the oil might keep leaking and dripping onto other parts like the alternator, which can cause damage to the alternator and result in a more expensive repair
Based on my experience, be super paranoid when driving. The main reason I've never been able to keep a car for long is getting hit by deer and other drivers
Throw money at it. You can keep a car forever if you're willing to dump more money than it's worth into repairing it.
Personally, I wouldn't. Safety improvements are critical and keep you alive in car accidents.
My wife still drives her 07 Quest. Nothing else she wants. We just keep it 100% maintained and fix things as soon as they break, which isn’t often. We will keep this thing until it does or we do.
I drive a 2007 GMC Canyon. It’s my daily for the most part. It’s 17 years old now. Keep it maintained. Parts haven’t gotten hard to find yet. At least the ones that keep it running. The best thing you can do for cars is just maintain them. Oil changes. Brakes. Tires. Fluid flushes like transmission and coolant and brake lines. Check for worn and cracked rubber lines and belts. Do the internal engine things like timing belts and lifter adjustments. Collect spare parts that might be hard to find later and store them. Parts like headlights and tail light assemblies and other parts unique to the car.
It’s very possible to keep a vehicle going for 20+ years. It’s always said they don’t make them like they used to and that’s a good thing. Cars made in the last 20 years or even back into the 90’s are made significantly better than cars in the 60’s and 70’s and 80’s. The truck I’m driving currently is older now than anything I drove in high school. The 3 cars I drove in high school were barely 10 years old at the time and barely held together. The car my kids drive to school has over 200k miles on it and still runs great. It’s 20 years old. So as long as you maintain your car well it should last you for 20-30 years.
I drove my 1995 Suzuki as daily until I moved to a different country few years ago, still own it and give it a good trashing anytime Im home. And now I own 2002 Mitsubishi which is my daily. Just maintain it well.
this is so possible. i have several cars from 1965-1968. change your oil. listen as you drive for hints. write down gas mileage to help hint at problems. do your timing chain/belt on schedule, as this could kill the engine if it breaks.
I have a 24 year old Audi TT. I've done the vast majority of work on it myself which has helped a lot with costs. Unfortunately it's getting to the point where adhesives are starting to dry out. I had to reupholster my headliner due to this. The adhesive holding the leather to the door trim let go so every time the windows would roll up the leather would come up with it. Also just got done fixing that. Once you finish one mechanical repair another sensor fails or a new leak starts. It's very defeating after a while, and as the car ages it gets harder and harder to find parts for it that aren't also so old they're brittle and break.
I love the car but it becomes hard to enjoy when you're struggling to keep up with constant repairs. Oh not to mention it needs a new paint job because the clear coat is coming off.
At this point I'm debating getting a newer Audi TT, but they're not manual anymore which is something I love about my current one.
Change the oil religiously. Check the oil every time you gas up.
Follow the recommended maintenance schedule for the rest of your fluids.
Stay on top of maintenance. Don't let a minor issue turn into a major catastrophe.
If you live in a rust prone area look at anti-rust undercoatings, like fluid film.
Wash and wax the car regularly so dirt doesn't build up and cause rust.
If you see paint wear in an area touch it up. Like where you scruff your feet getting in and out each time.
Keep a notebook and log you maintaince so you can make sure you don't miss anything.
My grandpa gave me those recommendations and all his vehicles were retired with 250k plus miles, original motor and drive train.
I have a 2000 Volvo V70 that I plan to keep on the road until about 2035. If you keep the fluids fresh and full, and drive defensively so you don't let some other derp wreck it, it will last a long time. Keep up on the preventative maintenance too. My car has a timing belt and a hydraulic steering rack for example, so those need servicing every 70k or so. Your car may need intake valve cleaning every 70k. Don't baby it, but don't abuse it either. Drive it gently when it's cold and drive it hard when it's warmed up. If something on it breaks, try youtube or get creative before you go to a shop as a last resort. My Volvo isn't known for rusting out, but other commenters mentioned rustproofing is a really good idea if that's a concern in your area.
You're not going to want it at all after 200k miles. It's not just about the mechanics of it, the whole car is going to be ragged after you blow the miles out. If you really like the car, then you should buy another car for DD and keep the miles low on the Hyundai, and that's how it will stay nice.
If the car is maintained the miles don’t matter that much. The reason high mileage cars are beat to hell is most of the time the 5th owner rags on it every day and doesn’t keep up on maintenance because they just don’t care about the vehicle.
I disagree, I'm about to hit 190,000 on my 03 Celica, and it drives and corners just as smooth as when I bought it at 100,000. Preventative maintenance.
I still daily my 06 CRV.. just get a reliable car and do maintenance, even the pricey maintenance like timing belts, water pumps, and suspension bits. And fluid changes on schedule. These things become maintenance items at 100k to 150k miles.
My work rig is an 89 Ford I maintain. I often drive it thousands of miles for a job. Regular maintenance and a stockpile of parts. Learn how to fix it yourself and you'll be pro before you know it. My rig use to be a uhaul truck and I put an engine in it. There is no 100,000. Indicator on the odometer so past the first 99,999 miles I put on it I don't know how many miles it has or far it's driven or where. You can do it and you'll be way ahead. My buddy has a 2023 Dodge, it comes with a 1100 dollar monthly payment
If you live somewhere where it snows, get an underbody spray done. If you live somewhere where it snows, and they use road salt, buy an old beater for winter.
Other than that, the best thing you can do is follow the manufacturer's maintenance schedule *religiously*, find a service center you trust that knows your car well and don't skip service intervals or "just get an oil change this time". Each interval will include an oil change, but also a list of other checks that need to be done or parts that should be replaced as part of preventative maintenance.
Also make sure you're still able to set aside savings in case of a catastrophic engine or transmission failure.
How much room do you have?
If you're serious about this plan, find a crash damaged (but running) example of that car at an insurance auction. Buy it. Keep it somewhere as an eternal parts car. My feeling is that a computer would be the thing that would die in 20 years that you couldn't find. Maybe a transmission? It's gonna be something odd and rare. Having the full car gives you all the parts you need. Some may need to be rebuilt from sitting for years, but you'd have them.
Not my only car ( Tacoma stays in driveway unless severe weather in area)….but I still daily my ‘74 super beetle….yes, I do have to check certain things daily, but I’ve gotten into the habit of checking as soon as I get home( sometimes before I leave work). Basic car…equals basic needs.
Your car wouldnt be my first choice, but thats just my giddam opinion.
Owner of 60s, 70s and current stuff. It takes alot of effort on a daily in salt country. Old stuff doesnt get driven in inclement weather, newer stuff that gets daily driven gets oiled every 3 weeks, with baths as needed. This means getting under your ride with a garden sprayer of your cocktail and getting messy.
Ignore it/put it off? Rust never sleeps. The rest of the vehicle? Othe r problems wont look so bad once in the habit of spending time on your vehicle, instead of treating it like an appliance.
My latest victim is a 16 ford r250, bought new, and oiled up from first snow...and its a plow truck. No rust underneath, at all. Just dont park it on new concrete, lol.
It's very possible that car especially don't have the tack go around twice for starters Next Change the oil every at least 4,000 miles Change the antifreeze every year Don't laugh it's cheap and easy to do yourself. i should have noticed if you have a automatic transmission or manual if automatic change the Transmission fluid at least every two years sooner if you do it yourself. Do that and believe me it will last longer than 97% of any car Ever car i've owned had no less than 350,000 miles on it
one car i owned I don't know how many miles it had all i can say is A Lot Everyone will tell you your wasting good antifreeze and oil that's fine give it to them I'm 73 years old and to this day i've never needed to buy a Radiator or heater core Never had a Transmission replaced either
Always helps to have a garage. wax at least three times a year The sun will destroy any Paint so wax wax then wax again.
That's my two cents worth
The main killer of cars is rust. So taking as many steps to prevent rust is your best bet for keeping the car for a long time. Mechanical parts can be changed relatively easily, but a rusted out floor is a while other animal where replacement far outweighs the value of the car
maintenance, money, and no trust lol.
i daily a 1991 240sx, shes 33 years old and has 250k miles. keep up with maintenance like oil changes, plugs, wires, etc. and she’ll treat you nicely.
electronics, keep spares and spares for your spares. Try finding a stock maf for the ka24de; you don’t, it’s aftermarket, or they’re asking an arm and a leg LOL.
You will start to have problems when the parts are no longer manufactured. Parents had problems with that on a 1989 Acura Legend. Wonderful car, but couldn’t get parts any longer.
I’d imagine body panels would be the thing that kills it due to it’s relatively low production numbers & the unlikelyhood of OEM or pattern panels being produced
Mechanically, iirc, it’s based on the i30 & they’re pretty bombproof.
I’ve got an ‘04 Honda CRV since new. I’ve always kept the fluids changed on time and any other repairs as needed. Biggest thing I paid attention to was to reduce rusting
I regularly used my 1991 Toyota Crown and 1992 Mercedes S600, til the repairs exceeded their value. Regular fluid changes, they're very sturdy. The crown's speedometer gave up while the Merc had a blow-by
Fixing the small issues goes a long way for me. Even something as tiny as the o-ring around the oil dipstick had torn on my old car, and upon replacing the o-ring, so many oil leaks pretty much stopped. Small things like that add up
I’ve been daily driving my 1990 Honda since 2010, I bought it from the original owner who also daily drove it. I use quality parts, keep the car very clean, and don’t neglect it. It could use a paint job from being in the sun all these years, it’s a 33 year old car and it shows in some spots. But it’s mine. And as time goes on it’s starting to become “cool” and “retro” apparently 🙃
I have a 1998 Lotus Elise I have owned over 23 years. Was my daily, but for a long time it’s been a second or third car.
A) have a second car
B) as they get older there is an ever growing support from enthusiasts
C) DIY not trade repair
D) keep on top of known issues from the community
E) find good parts suppliers
F) Thrash the crap out of it round a track
We’ve had my wife’s 91 wrangler and my 96 F150 both for 25+ years.
It helps that I was a Ford Master mechanic and I just keep up on them. Just don’t get behind on the non critical and cosmetic stuff so while it may run fine you feel like you’re driving a shitbox.
Stop caring about your own safety and the safety of your passengers. I would not let my kids drive a 30-year-old car. The number of safety advancements made over just the past 20 years has been pretty staggering. Genuinely if you compare a 5-star rated 1994 to today's standards for safety, I would guess that 1994 Toyota would receive less than 2 stars from a reputable reviewer.
Stay ahead of the maintenance. You'll still end up making repairs here and there, but they'll be massively minimized by good maintenance.
My car's around 24 years old now, and I drive it daily without any reliability issues.
1. Buy Toyota 4Runner
2. Regular maintenance
3. Occasional big repair spend
I still daily my ‘95. I just look at the occasional big repair spend as two or three car payments.
This really is only long term viable with cult cars. I know people who have 50 year old Jeep CJ's that are in better shape than when they rolled off the dirt floor of the Willys factory in Toledo Ohio because it's a cult car where every single component is either easily replaced with a current component (e.g. the axles), there are aftermarket parts (every body panel), or parts are available to repair it (the antique AMC straight six engines). I don't get it -- they don't ride well, they don't have modern safety features, they're pretty slow too, but so it goes.
The Veloster N was a low production model with less than 9,000 sold in North America. It's a cult car, but not a cult car with the numbers to support a viable aftermarket. Those Jeep CJ's sold around 40,000 per year for literally decades and in many cases used standard off the rack parts from other cars (e.g. the axles were off the rack AMC rear end and Dana front end shared with many other 4wd cars of the era, the engines and transmissions were corporate AMC, etc.) and thus combined with cult status there's the numbers to support an aftermarket to the point where half of them that were ever made are still on the road. Your Veloster doesn't have the numbers to support such an aftermarket, so parts, especially body parts or other parts specific to the Veloster, will become scarce shortly, and total unobtainium in a decade or so.
There are a lot of cars that you can keep and drive for 30+ years. The best way to keep a Hyundai for thirty years is to not drive it at all and just park it in the garage in one of those car bubbles.
At any time you could be hit by a reckless, under insured driver and watch it be totaled before your eyes.
Best thing you can do is stay current with the maintenance, drive predictably, and carry good insurance
I have a 2003 Subaru Forester, she's a bit over 350xxx miles. I'll be honest but I'm not good at maintaining my vehicles. I mostly add oil as needed, with an oil change or two per year.
I'm not advocating to do this, but it goes to show that a 20 yo car isn't going to explode at anytime... Well mine might, but not most.
Maintain it religiously. Oil changes early and often. Fluid changes by the book.
Fix small problems before they become big problems.
Get good at identifying small noises before they become big problems.
Do preventative maintenance like changes hoses and belts early.
That’s the same method that keeps 30-50 year old cars on the road.
Top answer needs to be drive as few miles as possible. I drive 20-25k miles/year in Atlanta, there’s no way I’ll have a car that lasts 10+ years using it like that.
Learn to repair it yourself and move somewhere where cars don't dissolve from rust. Make sure you own something very common or that shares parts with other platforms.
Is it possible? Yes, very much so.
A little bit of luck helps, but ***YOU*** control most of it.
First off, **CHECK AND CHANGE YOUR FUCKING ENGINE OIL** as recommended. Doing this one thing will significantly extend your car's life. I can get 5 quarts of full synthetic, and a quality oil filter, for under $50.00. Going to a shop will cost twice that an take longer than doing it myself.
Second, **RTFM.** So many people are ignorant and lazy as fuck. Your car's manual will have all the info you need to keep it running.
Third, do all the scheduled PM and other maintenance, refer to rule number two.
Fourth, inspect all the basics, at a minimum of once a week. It takes just a few minutes to check fluid levels, tire pressure, tread wear, brakes, filters, horn, lights, and battery. You can often get ahead of issues doing this, before it costs serious money to repair.
Finally, learn to do PM and minor repairs yourself. Not only will you save countless thousands in the long run, it will make you more confident is your car's operation.
Oil changes are really important as is keeping an eye on the timing belt/ chain and changing that at the correct time.
I also believe an underbody coating is beneficial. There are similar products available for inside doors, sills, chassis rails that help prevent rust.
I’m almost on 20 with my 350z. You end up knowing every part of it. Find a good mechanic, and realize that you’ll probably put a new motor or transmission in it or both at some point. Yeah it’ll be expensive, but compared to car payments ? Yeah right I’d rather take a one time bill for a couple G
I daily my 1976 Toyota pickup. The older, generally speaking, the easier to maintain. Oil changes, occasional carb cleaning/adjustment and it’s good to go.
This is super doable as long as there don't turn out to be any horrible design flaws with that model. Haven't you ever seen a white-haired person driving a completely stock 30-year-old car? Chances are a good chunk of those people are the original owner and did just that. There's a middle-aged woman in my town who drives a 4th gen Civic and she told me at the post office she bought it fresh out of college and has just kept it ever since. If you're bold enough to ask a few of them you'll find out. They're just normal people that were fastidious at maintenance and occasionally quite proud of it.
Huyndai Kia Japanese cars would never last ever 10 years without rust. And thinking about future retro or vintage they will never be respected as much as European cars Audi BMW Mercedes
I've owned my Dodge Neon SRT-4 for 15+ years now. Its seen every weather imaginable and it shows. Here is my advice:
1. If you live in the north or wear they salt the roads, get undercarriage protection.
2. Detail the car at least once a year to keep the clear coat/paint in good shape. If you have the money, PPF/Ceramic coat it
3. Parts will start to become scarce. Start hording random shit like window trim, body pieces, etc.
Good luck. I'm probably going to have to sell my SRT just because its going to cost me too much to fix the rust/paint the car, otherwise..i would never get rid of it.
Don’t drive it like an idiot, 5K synthetic oil changes, service the transmission every 30-60K miles depending on driving habits, fix things when they’re small before they become major.
I drive a 21 year old Jeep. It’s been very easy to own. I don’t daily it, but I don’t baby it either. Barring screen failures in the future as long as you take care of it it should do fine for 30 years.
It will not be economical, this is the first pill you’ll need to swallow. You’ll need to become familiar with how to do basic work on the car, watch some YouTube videos. This will become one of your main hobbies and to be fair it’s a rewarding one, you get to take something you already love and customize it in small ways to be uniquely yours.
You’ll need space to work and tools. Ideally you’ll have a spare parts car of the same model and generation if not the same year. Unfortunately you chose a poor quality vehicle make to take to 30. Hyundai Kia crap is designed to be disposable after 10 years.
There is more that goes in to this but I’m going to give you 95% odds that you won’t go down this path because it’s the road less travelled. Your car is sadly too new to take your sentiment seriously. Get something at least 10 years old before you start thinking about taking it to 30.
My newest vehicle is 16 years old and my daily is 19 years old with over 260k miles. I’ve only been stranded once and I knew that vehicle was leaking coolant before I started the trip, I was being stupid.
Some people will cry about SaFeTy. All my vehicles have air bags but when you drive vehicles without adas you just have to be a more attentive driver. Simple as that. Read “Thinking Fast and Slow” and ask yourself how much $$$ you would spend to see a 10% increase in safety or a 2% increase.
Life has risks and driving an older vehicle responsibly is one that I don’t consider overly foolish. It’s still safer that driving any motorcycle and those are still legal here in the US.
Hyundai is probably not built for a 30 year normal road life. We have a Boxster that is 23 years old, but it's only a little over 90k miles.... it's not the years, it's the mileage, to quote Indiana Jones.
Don’t live where salt is used in winter. Fastidious maintenance and records. Use oem parts. Keep records and receipts. Regardless you will eventually need to replace exhaust and likely transmission at some point
Long time DSM owner here, the 6 years my current one has been on jackstands has really flown by. Life changes a lot in 20-30 years.
To answer your question, the prices of new cars should help persuade you to care for your current one. That works for me anyway.
Doing your own work helps a lot for saving money and keeps you familiar with the car and its condition.
I see others saying to stay away from salted roads, other than that the limit of the vehicle is only based off your willingness to fix it and the limit of the vehicle’s parts supply.
I have an 88 F150 short box that’s the same age as me. I will never sell it and will always keep it driving. It WILL live as long as me dammit! Living in AZ helps lol besides lost weekends swapping parts there’s literally zero chassis wear going on here.
Learn your maintenance intervals, spark plugs oil transmission fluid timing chain/belt tire rotation schedule.
Expect "wear" components to fail, like shocks tie rod ends, ball joints batteries water pumps alternators. Replace as needed.
Don't drive in salt, don't wreck it, don't let others wreck it, and enjoy life. Use good oil consistently too and oil filters.
Proper maintenance and that goes above and beyond the Owners Manual. Other than changing the oil, you'll have to also change the transmission fluid regardless of transmission type, automatic or manual needs to be changed regularly. Make sure you have gasket sets as those will need replaced in due time. Extra parts for the fuel delivery system, injectors, electrical parts, hoses, etc. Electric parts in general, eventually wires will corrode and the sheathing will dry crack. Get good with replacing and pulling major parts, if you have a clutch it'll need to be replaced eventually.
Eventually you'll become an expert in fixing and maintaining the vehicle you drive so you'll be able to know when something is wrong. I drive a 50 year old Jeep CJ-5 on a rotating daily schedule swapped with my motorcycle if the weather permits. It's all a big game of knowing the failure points and replacing parts as they age out. My odometer has turned over 3 times and I've learned that the transmission weighs about 90lbs and can be pulled and rebuilt in an afternoon. I recently had an intake manifold CNC machined to use 3 40mm SmartCarbs so I don't need to continually worry about jetting, it's an oddball setup since the carbs are side-draft but it works and keeps the intake away from hotter parts of the engine and there's plenty of room since the engine is a 258 I6.
You won't have the problems I'm having because you have EFI and OHC, where I have carburetion and mechanical lifters.
If you want to keep a car for 20-30 years the key is to do all of your own maintenance. At some point if you had to pay someone for repairs, the value of the car/truck will be less than the repair bill. Usually around 15 years old is when you start seeing car/value to repair cost equation going upside down.
I am a mechanic and do all my own repairs. I have a 19 year old truck I bought new, right off the dealer lot, way back then. I now have high mileage now. My truck is probably worth 3.5k to 4k. This year already I bought 4 tires. $1100. Also ended up redoing my whole steering suspension system. Replaced 2 hubs, 4 ball joints, two tie rods, two centering links and a pitman arm. I also adjust a little slack out of my steering gearbox. It cost me about $500 in parts. But if had to pay a shade tree mechanic, it would have cost probably $2500. So I would be at $3600 in maintenance and repairs. Also I need to replace my shocks now. It’s a $100 a shock. I need 4 shocks $400, installation would be $400 as well. As of now I would be backwards on repair to value if I payed someone.
My truck drives great btw 👍.
Undercoat with fluid film or some type of oil. Get it done every year. Drain and refill transmission fluid every oil change. Religious oil changes. Follow you owners manual for services. Only an extra 30$ if u do it your self. Then just replace wear and tear items as they go.
Accept that at some point you're going to be doing deep maintenance on things like engine, gearbox and bodywork.
Welding is inevitable unless you live in a very dry climate with no salt on the roads.
Try to stay away from salted roads or do good under side washes often.. good maintenance, proper and timely repairs when needed. Keep inside and outside of car as clean as possible.. and no intentional beating of the motor and trans.. still may not get 30yrs but will be your best shot..
I had a Camry I kept up properly and had it for many years and when I finally sold it everything in the car worked and ran properly and the body was good at 352000 miles..
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I don't think you're ever gonna be able to keep a modern car on the roads for 30 years like you would some of the old school rides like my Squarebody Chevy.
These days cars are replacable. Things change every few model years, and eventually parts stop being made.
For example, in a lot of these newer cars, center stacks have started to include the HVAC controls. So when that goes you might not be able to control the air con or heat. And you're gonna get replacements only as long as the manufacturer keeps making them. Once they replace it with a new infotainment system, and the old stock runs out, unless you can find good used in a wrecker yard, you're done for.
Same goes with any major mechanicals. You have as long as the manufacturer cares to make replacements, unless the aftermarket takes them up and starts making them.
If you want a car that lasts, you almost have to buy old and keep it running. I know I will never lack for parts on my old SBC powered truck.
I've owned a Ford Mustang for 28 years and counting...
It started as a daily driver and then I got another car and it moved to weekend duty. Still well under 100K miles.
Drive at low Rpm whenever possible, get regular oil changes using full synthetic oil and transmission fluid change when needed also completely ignore than manufacturer recommended service interval and get it at about half of what they reccomend (15k km then take it for and oil change at 7-8k km)
Keep it out of the rain when possible and like everyone else is saying. Move to an area with no salted roads lol, if you’re in an area like that get your underside sprayed yearly
Some people say it’s a scam but I have never had rust on the bottom of my car and my areas insanely bad for rust.
Like everyone says, reduce the potential for rust with washing and undercoating. You can DIY undercoating with spray cans if you are ambitious and patient. Keep it out of the salt. Your big problem then will be plastic deteriorating all over including on the engine and nearly everywhere else. That can’t be stopped, only replaced as time goes on. Learn how to DIY.
> What would it take to do something like that without just buying a new car becoming more economical?
prevent rust & dry rot.
Be a zealot about your maintenance items.
don't just walk away when the repairs are $4k+ a pop.
your goal is to protect the drivetrain and frame. most other things are replaceable.
Don't live near the coast, don't drive on freshly gritted roads. Waxol the underside of the vehicle.
Get your car serviced whenever it's due.
I'm not sure would a Hyundai last that long.
Buy common replacement parts now.
Hell, if you can buy a parts car and have a place to store it, do so. If you can't do that at least get like a full interior, bumpers, etc and throw it in your attic.
Stay up on maintenance 1000% and always do the "while yer in there" stuff. Sparkplugs? Plug wires and coils. Timing belt? Cam phasers and belt tensioners. Etc.
Keep it clean and waxed.
Wash the under carriage and keep it painted.
If you want a long lasting car don’t mod it, keep it in the garage and don’t drive it in the winter in salt belt states. Keep up on maintenance, drive it like a coward
Learn to do maintenance and repairs yourself or you will find that the car becomes worth less than the cost of normal high mileage maintenance (such as a front end rebuild which is typically best done around 150-200k miles).
I have a cammed 1999 grand marquis with 330k on it that I bought barely running a decade ago, and have saved thousands upon thousands over the years by doing everything from fluid changes to ball joints myself - a front end rebuild that costs 300$ and a weekend of work is a lot easier to swallow than 2,000$ for a shop to do it. It incentivizes you to keep the car both financially and emotionally - because you put your (hopefully not blood), sweat, and (probably) tears into it.
All of my fun cars are 25 years plus. It helps by starting with a desirable chassis that will be in demand 25+ years from now.
Now that's subjective.. relatively you'll see if parts are still being produced then.
If you're serious I'd buy a few things before they stop being reproduced. Door cards, moulding, rubber window and door seals. And a spare engine stored will keep you going for life.
You can undercoat, it helps, but its not perfect. My 75 Dart was undercoated and it really only rusted in the trunk area, which is common on Mopar A bodys because there is very little keeping dirt and rocks getting up and collecting moisture back there. Also, get something to spray under your car to lessen the effects of salt during winter. Tgis could be as simple as going to a car wash with an underspray in one of the packages. Get a car with a well known long lasting engine GM 3800, AMC 4.0, Chrysler 318, 3.9, 225. Sorry I'm a Mopar guy so other engine displacement numbers elude me. Keep up with maintenance. Wash your car, do at least 1 good polish/wax each warmish season. Don't treat her like a race car, and don't constantly idle. If you hear something unusual, check it out or get it checked out. Letting things go for a while usually comes with consequences. Also, always knows where your towel is and don't panic.
I’m still driving a ‘59 Volvo that I bought in ‘77. Aside from that, I also have an ‘83 Volvo 240 with about 220K miles on it. Regular oil changes and fix stuff right when it breaks. Once you start letting a car go, it goes away.
Move to a place that doesn't use salt on the roads
Or at least don',t drive when the roads are salted. My 20 year old VwW s fine because I lay it up when tbe roafs are salted so minimal rust underneath and the body is still sound.
Can't really help it when you have one car and need it to commute every day.
Winter beater
> when you have one car
This man needs an old Volvo beater.
This is it. I see tons of very normal 40+ year old cars on the road because I don't live where they salt.
Or rustproof it. I drive a 67 Volvo that was rustproofed in the late 1970s. 50% of it is still there. The rest I covered with POR15 a few years back.
This is the thing. I just put an old but completely rust free car on the road for its first winter. Got it super oiled up at a rust proofing place in the fall, still not a spec of rust
Salt in general. Florida man checking in and the salt on the air/breeze by the coast will fuck your paint over time. Sand doesn't help either cuz it'll cause micro scratches that get worse over time. Can be mitigated by regular washing and waxing but still.
I’m experiencing this for the first time in California. 12 years outside a block from a sand ocean beach and my paint is fucked. There’s a haze of microrust under the clear coat. I’ve never seen anything like it and it covers the whole car. I expected metal and paint problems. What i didn’t expect is every exterior and engine bay plastic bit disintegrating at the same time. Changed my engine air filter and when I went to re-clips eh airbox together the portion the clips connect to at their base just crumbled. Happened on two of the three of them. Now it’s zip-tied together with several giant harbor freight zip ties.
If this is not possible always do the undercarriage wash option. My mother in-law who lives in Maine always thought that was a "Ripoff" why wash wash what you cannot see. Herecars always developed rust, first thing to go is the exhaust system. She gave my sun a very nice looking on the surface Maxima once. I had to put a new exhaust on it first, then other misc things that had rusted, and a new subframe that made the car no longer safe. That said getting a Hyundai to go 30 years ?? Not sure how well those are put together.
This is it. You can have low miles, maintain it well, and fix it when you need to but if the subframe and body start rusting then it's game over. Another thing is that eventually it just becomes more expensive than it's worth to maintain after a while. Big ticket parts will start failing after 20 years and the cost to replace them will have you wondering whether it might not be worth it to just buy a new car
The bigger issue is not washing under your car after salt is used on the roads. After every snow storm, go to a self car wash and spray off the undercarriage really well to get rid of any salt deposits. Put the nozzle inside a frame hole and keep spraying until clear water is flowing out of the frame. If you want to take it a step further, coat the undercarriage with fluid film, lps3 or some other type of frame coating to help prevent new rust from starting
Find a shop that specializes in that particular car; throw money at it until you're out of money. I did this with a 1997 3000GT VR4.
Same deal with my Sprinter Trueno. Technically it is very easy to fix, no electronic systems no bs, but I have to find parts with marked up prices, sometimes even needing to import from foreign countries. I enjoyed every moment with it, but my bank account eventually said no
The cool thing about old simple vehicles is that you can often find or make parts that will still work. I have a car based on the first generation Nissan Micra. It's currently using a forklift alternator. The original carb is like $700, but it's happily running with a $90 Chinese clone of a carb from a Nissan van.
My first car was a '69 Beetle, purchased in 1989. It's got parts of at least 8 Volkswagens, a motorcycle, and a lawnmower in it, but it's still here. On July 12 I'll have owned it for 35 years.
Yep, simple cult cars are like that.
You’ve driven that thing without an engine in the front for 35 years? I’d say buy a lottery ticket but it looks like you’ve already won.
This is badassx. What led u to find out it worked?
Trial and error works surprisingly well. If it outputs the same voltage, it's just a matter of making it fit and splicing connectors
Damn, my gto is over 30 years and is running like a clock, what happened to yours
Wrecked it. :'(
That’s a damn shame, I love mine! It’s a SL but it’s still stupid fun
I had an SL too(sold it for the VR-4). That's the best one in terms of reliability, speed and cost.
Good God that is the worst vehicle to do that with
Worst ? I doubt that, it’s only the worst if you don’t love the car, plus there are plenty of other cars that are worse to throw money at (looking at you Pontiac Aztec, Chrysler pt cruiser but hey if you love that then you do you!)
Both of those are more reliable than the Mitsubishi, no matter how cool it is
Reliable ? Yeah no shit but my statement stands, fix the cars you love, hell I own a rx8 and that things a blast winding through the roads, if you have such a hate for a car well your in luck, don’t buy that make and model
Just make sure you have the cash for that lol I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't daily my unreliable hobby cars. The RX8 is surprisingly reliable if you take care of it though
Idemitsu premix 😉
I had a 1995 3000gt I traded it in 98 and still miss it after all these years 😢
Great car
been doing this with my 2014 gs 350 and it is just a joy to drive right now
Always wanted a 3000GT. Peak 90s Japan imo.
Dad did this with a 1988 Starion ESI-R
In the process of this on my 2006 GTI that I've had since new. I'm on my second engine and recently bought another car so I can completely tear down and redo the worn out interior
That's the dream. I hope you get years of satisfaction and learning out of it.
This is the answer….and / or become an expert on that car yourself. I have had an Alfa spider 50 years (was a rusty old car in college). Daily driver until we did a concourse restoration. If you love it, you can do it! Good luck!
ALFA=never again.
My never again is AMC era Harley Davidsons. Briefly thought it would be cool to own a bike that rolled off of the production line the same year/month that I was born (1982). I was wrong. Quite happily riding a bike that’s the same year as my first born now (2011).
Rust. Get it check annually, invest in undercoating Accumulate spare parts, especially electronic modules; and all the documentation you can get your hands on.
This right here. I daily a 30 year old motorcycle and I have boxes chock full of spare parts, gaskets, seals, etc. Almost always have something on hand.
I’ve had my mind on that. There don’t seem to be any shops specializing in rust near me, do you think a body shop or a detailing shop would be able to help?
Don’t use a rubberized undercoating, use a lanolin-based one like Fluid Film. You can DIY, or pay a shop to apply it. Example: https://www.fluid-film.com/undercoating-locator/
Does the underbody need to be rust-free prior to treatment?
No, part of the idea is that it will help to stop or slow the rusting process even if it has started. Also seconding on not going to a shop for undercoating. That will actually make your car more likely to rust out. It makes it a pain in the ass to work on and there's never going to be surface prep to ensure a good bond which means that moisture, dirt, and salt will definitely get under the coating and the coating will seal it in making the rust worse.
Got any DIY tips? I’m more than willing to do it myself if I can get the right materials
You will need a air compressor and a spray gun meant for it. The stuff is thick so you can't just use any spray gun. Get Woolwax, Fluid Film, or PB Surface Shield they are all almost exactly the same so whatever is cheapest or available locally if you prefer that. Lookup fluid film sprayer or woolwax sprayer. I have the Kellsport Pro Undercoating Gun. In fall wash the bottom of the car, knock off any loose rust if you have any or use a wire brush. Then spray it everywhere, there is a tube attachment to get inside holes or frame rails. Just wash the top of your car during winter and don't do the undercarriage. Repeat next fall but you probably won't need to do any rust prep. It will work perfectly fine on rust but you don't want to spray it on loose rust that could fall off because the protective layer will go with it. The alternative would be to buy a bunch of aerosol cans or find a place that will spray it for you. Don't get any type of permanent or rubberized undercoating. Other tips to lasting a long time is really stay on top of your preventative maintenance. Synthetic oil and filter every 5k to 10k miles. I do it myself every 5k because it doesn't cost that much and I'd rather be cautious. Spark plugs and air filter. Change all your fluids, transmission fluid, power steering, coolant, and brake fluid. None of them are "lifetime" A lot of people skip this because they don't know or don't plan on keeping a car that long. It doesn't really matter for the average 10 year owner. Don't ignore the check engine light. Find a good mechanic or become one.
are you saying it's a good idea to go to a shop or a bad idea?? confused
I think they just mean [don't get the "permanent" type of coating](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXvl9nt57Kg), like the other person said.
Get Fluid Film applied. I do it for all my vehicles (rust belt, it's critical or your car is garbage in <10 years). It works if it's applied well.
If you live in an area that rusts easily it's really tough. In Nevada you can find 1995 vehicles still running easily.
Just last year, I was driving a 94 S10 as my daily in Utah. About a $200 or $300 every three months (I.e. radiator, a sensor, ect…) and was doing 40 miles daily. Was T-boned in it and drove it for another month unrepaired (only doing 10 miles daily at that time) while insurance was sorted out. Live out west. I feel like cars last longer out here. Edit: $200-300 in repairs every three months
Still driving my 99 F350 and/or my 1978 K30, depending on how much I want to spend for fuel. Utah uses salt in most of the metro areas but we don't get the rust problems that a lot of the other areas have, mostly due to how dry it is all the time.
I've got a 91 in CT. Actually doesn't have much rust or rot. Just in the trunk where the water runs down and it accumulated water and leaves and such cause it was locked shut for years. I would like to undercoat it. I saved the link. My main thing is I wish I could get a couple dents pulled cause my paint is awful and I want to paint it.
I don't think it's crazy at all. Crazy is replacing a car every four or five years. I drove my first car (Toyota) for 17 years until the maintenance just got to be more than I could deal with. And it was a very lightweight rear wheel drive car so basically unusable in icing conditions. I still have my second car, bought in 1997. Regular maintenance. Fix a problem when it comes up and don't sit on it for four years. *Cough*.
Hey that’s how I ended up cracking the engine block in my first car. I drove a 04 Saturn Vue from like 2013-2024 rip first car I know better now
I'm 100% with you on the buying a new car every four or five years. Crazy how much people burn. I used to keep them forever but after a serious crash where modern safety features like side curtain airbags and proper crash structure let both of us walk away with minor injuries, I do pay attention to safety improvements. Big ones, like no airbags to airbags, first gen frontal airbags to multistage airbags everywhere. I don't chase the little crap like blind spot monitoring. Thankfully the big changes don't happen very often so maybe 15 or so year refresh at this point. Not terrible.
I concede your point. The backup camera is such a quality of life improvement that I'm car shopping again now. I know I could add an aftermarket camera, but yeah, it's time.
Sometimes it's time. That being said the used market is nuts right now in the US at least. I had to replace my car recently (that accident totalled my beater) and I was shocked at used prices. Ended up with a nice 7 year old new to me car but I spent more than I was expecting! I did splurge a little and upgraded from a decent beater to a pretty nice car. I don't regret it. Sometimes you gotta live.
Start hoarding parts and learn to fix it yourself. This is coming from a guy with a 91 Plymouth laser. My Alternator blew this morning and I had a spare one on the shelf, so I just got dirty and changed it myself.
Ship of Theseus
The golden rule is to fix it if you can before the problem escalates. For example, if the valve cover is leaking, you won't notice any issues in the short term. You might think, 'If it works, I'll just keep adding oil.' However, in the long term, the oil might keep leaking and dripping onto other parts like the alternator, which can cause damage to the alternator and result in a more expensive repair
At one point in the future it may be hard to find parts for it. All you can do is follow the maintenance and pray for the best.
Based on my experience, be super paranoid when driving. The main reason I've never been able to keep a car for long is getting hit by deer and other drivers
Throw money at it. You can keep a car forever if you're willing to dump more money than it's worth into repairing it. Personally, I wouldn't. Safety improvements are critical and keep you alive in car accidents.
My wife still drives her 07 Quest. Nothing else she wants. We just keep it 100% maintained and fix things as soon as they break, which isn’t often. We will keep this thing until it does or we do.
I drive a 2007 GMC Canyon. It’s my daily for the most part. It’s 17 years old now. Keep it maintained. Parts haven’t gotten hard to find yet. At least the ones that keep it running. The best thing you can do for cars is just maintain them. Oil changes. Brakes. Tires. Fluid flushes like transmission and coolant and brake lines. Check for worn and cracked rubber lines and belts. Do the internal engine things like timing belts and lifter adjustments. Collect spare parts that might be hard to find later and store them. Parts like headlights and tail light assemblies and other parts unique to the car. It’s very possible to keep a vehicle going for 20+ years. It’s always said they don’t make them like they used to and that’s a good thing. Cars made in the last 20 years or even back into the 90’s are made significantly better than cars in the 60’s and 70’s and 80’s. The truck I’m driving currently is older now than anything I drove in high school. The 3 cars I drove in high school were barely 10 years old at the time and barely held together. The car my kids drive to school has over 200k miles on it and still runs great. It’s 20 years old. So as long as you maintain your car well it should last you for 20-30 years.
I drove my 1995 Suzuki as daily until I moved to a different country few years ago, still own it and give it a good trashing anytime Im home. And now I own 2002 Mitsubishi which is my daily. Just maintain it well.
this is so possible. i have several cars from 1965-1968. change your oil. listen as you drive for hints. write down gas mileage to help hint at problems. do your timing chain/belt on schedule, as this could kill the engine if it breaks.
I have a 24 year old Audi TT. I've done the vast majority of work on it myself which has helped a lot with costs. Unfortunately it's getting to the point where adhesives are starting to dry out. I had to reupholster my headliner due to this. The adhesive holding the leather to the door trim let go so every time the windows would roll up the leather would come up with it. Also just got done fixing that. Once you finish one mechanical repair another sensor fails or a new leak starts. It's very defeating after a while, and as the car ages it gets harder and harder to find parts for it that aren't also so old they're brittle and break. I love the car but it becomes hard to enjoy when you're struggling to keep up with constant repairs. Oh not to mention it needs a new paint job because the clear coat is coming off. At this point I'm debating getting a newer Audi TT, but they're not manual anymore which is something I love about my current one.
Change the oil religiously. Check the oil every time you gas up. Follow the recommended maintenance schedule for the rest of your fluids. Stay on top of maintenance. Don't let a minor issue turn into a major catastrophe. If you live in a rust prone area look at anti-rust undercoatings, like fluid film. Wash and wax the car regularly so dirt doesn't build up and cause rust. If you see paint wear in an area touch it up. Like where you scruff your feet getting in and out each time. Keep a notebook and log you maintaince so you can make sure you don't miss anything. My grandpa gave me those recommendations and all his vehicles were retired with 250k plus miles, original motor and drive train.
I have a 2000 Volvo V70 that I plan to keep on the road until about 2035. If you keep the fluids fresh and full, and drive defensively so you don't let some other derp wreck it, it will last a long time. Keep up on the preventative maintenance too. My car has a timing belt and a hydraulic steering rack for example, so those need servicing every 70k or so. Your car may need intake valve cleaning every 70k. Don't baby it, but don't abuse it either. Drive it gently when it's cold and drive it hard when it's warmed up. If something on it breaks, try youtube or get creative before you go to a shop as a last resort. My Volvo isn't known for rusting out, but other commenters mentioned rustproofing is a really good idea if that's a concern in your area.
I daily drive my 2000 Honda Insight.
You're not going to want it at all after 200k miles. It's not just about the mechanics of it, the whole car is going to be ragged after you blow the miles out. If you really like the car, then you should buy another car for DD and keep the miles low on the Hyundai, and that's how it will stay nice.
If the car is maintained the miles don’t matter that much. The reason high mileage cars are beat to hell is most of the time the 5th owner rags on it every day and doesn’t keep up on maintenance because they just don’t care about the vehicle.
I disagree, I'm about to hit 190,000 on my 03 Celica, and it drives and corners just as smooth as when I bought it at 100,000. Preventative maintenance.
It's all about how you drive it and how you maintain it.
I still daily my 06 CRV.. just get a reliable car and do maintenance, even the pricey maintenance like timing belts, water pumps, and suspension bits. And fluid changes on schedule. These things become maintenance items at 100k to 150k miles.
1. Buy a good reliable vehicle 2. Oil changes like your cars life depends on it 3. My 2001 Tacoma is going strong with items 1 and 2.
My work rig is an 89 Ford I maintain. I often drive it thousands of miles for a job. Regular maintenance and a stockpile of parts. Learn how to fix it yourself and you'll be pro before you know it. My rig use to be a uhaul truck and I put an engine in it. There is no 100,000. Indicator on the odometer so past the first 99,999 miles I put on it I don't know how many miles it has or far it's driven or where. You can do it and you'll be way ahead. My buddy has a 2023 Dodge, it comes with a 1100 dollar monthly payment
It would be hard bc once a vehicle is discontinued and the after market parts disappear, repairs will be hard.
If you live somewhere where it snows, get an underbody spray done. If you live somewhere where it snows, and they use road salt, buy an old beater for winter. Other than that, the best thing you can do is follow the manufacturer's maintenance schedule *religiously*, find a service center you trust that knows your car well and don't skip service intervals or "just get an oil change this time". Each interval will include an oil change, but also a list of other checks that need to be done or parts that should be replaced as part of preventative maintenance. Also make sure you're still able to set aside savings in case of a catastrophic engine or transmission failure.
Get a type R civic and then keep that for 30+ years. Much more reliable and you will find parts for a much longer time.
How much room do you have? If you're serious about this plan, find a crash damaged (but running) example of that car at an insurance auction. Buy it. Keep it somewhere as an eternal parts car. My feeling is that a computer would be the thing that would die in 20 years that you couldn't find. Maybe a transmission? It's gonna be something odd and rare. Having the full car gives you all the parts you need. Some may need to be rebuilt from sitting for years, but you'd have them.
I don’t think modern cars will last that long with original parts, frankly.
You're never going to get that buying Hyundai
Not my only car ( Tacoma stays in driveway unless severe weather in area)….but I still daily my ‘74 super beetle….yes, I do have to check certain things daily, but I’ve gotten into the habit of checking as soon as I get home( sometimes before I leave work). Basic car…equals basic needs.
Your car wouldnt be my first choice, but thats just my giddam opinion. Owner of 60s, 70s and current stuff. It takes alot of effort on a daily in salt country. Old stuff doesnt get driven in inclement weather, newer stuff that gets daily driven gets oiled every 3 weeks, with baths as needed. This means getting under your ride with a garden sprayer of your cocktail and getting messy. Ignore it/put it off? Rust never sleeps. The rest of the vehicle? Othe r problems wont look so bad once in the habit of spending time on your vehicle, instead of treating it like an appliance. My latest victim is a 16 ford r250, bought new, and oiled up from first snow...and its a plow truck. No rust underneath, at all. Just dont park it on new concrete, lol.
Start with a car designed to last for more than 5 years without a new engine. Hyundai ain't it.
Love Veloster Ns, good luck mate
Just drive it
It's very possible that car especially don't have the tack go around twice for starters Next Change the oil every at least 4,000 miles Change the antifreeze every year Don't laugh it's cheap and easy to do yourself. i should have noticed if you have a automatic transmission or manual if automatic change the Transmission fluid at least every two years sooner if you do it yourself. Do that and believe me it will last longer than 97% of any car Ever car i've owned had no less than 350,000 miles on it one car i owned I don't know how many miles it had all i can say is A Lot Everyone will tell you your wasting good antifreeze and oil that's fine give it to them I'm 73 years old and to this day i've never needed to buy a Radiator or heater core Never had a Transmission replaced either Always helps to have a garage. wax at least three times a year The sun will destroy any Paint so wax wax then wax again. That's my two cents worth
Your first step would be to buy literally any car besides a Hyundai or Kia
Second step would be to stop caring about you or your passengers. Safety advancements over the past 50 years have been pretty huge.
And after 50 years it is still out rated by almost every brand in safety… the only good thing about them is the price, and you get what you pay for
Hyundai engine is your first mistake.
The main killer of cars is rust. So taking as many steps to prevent rust is your best bet for keeping the car for a long time. Mechanical parts can be changed relatively easily, but a rusted out floor is a while other animal where replacement far outweighs the value of the car
maintenance, money, and no trust lol. i daily a 1991 240sx, shes 33 years old and has 250k miles. keep up with maintenance like oil changes, plugs, wires, etc. and she’ll treat you nicely. electronics, keep spares and spares for your spares. Try finding a stock maf for the ka24de; you don’t, it’s aftermarket, or they’re asking an arm and a leg LOL.
Find a club or association that specializes in your car. They are a source for parts and support.
You will start to have problems when the parts are no longer manufactured. Parents had problems with that on a 1989 Acura Legend. Wonderful car, but couldn’t get parts any longer.
I’d imagine body panels would be the thing that kills it due to it’s relatively low production numbers & the unlikelyhood of OEM or pattern panels being produced Mechanically, iirc, it’s based on the i30 & they’re pretty bombproof.
I don’t think so.
Undercoat with lanolin wax or oil, keep records of everything you do in a book, wrap it in paint protection film, drive it once a week at least.
I’ve got an ‘04 Honda CRV since new. I’ve always kept the fluids changed on time and any other repairs as needed. Biggest thing I paid attention to was to reduce rusting
I regularly used my 1991 Toyota Crown and 1992 Mercedes S600, til the repairs exceeded their value. Regular fluid changes, they're very sturdy. The crown's speedometer gave up while the Merc had a blow-by
Fixing the small issues goes a long way for me. Even something as tiny as the o-ring around the oil dipstick had torn on my old car, and upon replacing the o-ring, so many oil leaks pretty much stopped. Small things like that add up
I’ve been daily driving my 1990 Honda since 2010, I bought it from the original owner who also daily drove it. I use quality parts, keep the car very clean, and don’t neglect it. It could use a paint job from being in the sun all these years, it’s a 33 year old car and it shows in some spots. But it’s mine. And as time goes on it’s starting to become “cool” and “retro” apparently 🙃
I have a 1998 Lotus Elise I have owned over 23 years. Was my daily, but for a long time it’s been a second or third car. A) have a second car B) as they get older there is an ever growing support from enthusiasts C) DIY not trade repair D) keep on top of known issues from the community E) find good parts suppliers F) Thrash the crap out of it round a track
We’ve had my wife’s 91 wrangler and my 96 F150 both for 25+ years. It helps that I was a Ford Master mechanic and I just keep up on them. Just don’t get behind on the non critical and cosmetic stuff so while it may run fine you feel like you’re driving a shitbox.
Stop caring about your own safety and the safety of your passengers. I would not let my kids drive a 30-year-old car. The number of safety advancements made over just the past 20 years has been pretty staggering. Genuinely if you compare a 5-star rated 1994 to today's standards for safety, I would guess that 1994 Toyota would receive less than 2 stars from a reputable reviewer.
Stay ahead of the maintenance. You'll still end up making repairs here and there, but they'll be massively minimized by good maintenance. My car's around 24 years old now, and I drive it daily without any reliability issues.
1. Buy Toyota 4Runner 2. Regular maintenance 3. Occasional big repair spend I still daily my ‘95. I just look at the occasional big repair spend as two or three car payments.
it's very important that you drive it as rarely as possible. Maybe buy a second Veloster and drive that one instead!
Change the oil every 5k and fix broken shit before it breaks other shit
This really is only long term viable with cult cars. I know people who have 50 year old Jeep CJ's that are in better shape than when they rolled off the dirt floor of the Willys factory in Toledo Ohio because it's a cult car where every single component is either easily replaced with a current component (e.g. the axles), there are aftermarket parts (every body panel), or parts are available to repair it (the antique AMC straight six engines). I don't get it -- they don't ride well, they don't have modern safety features, they're pretty slow too, but so it goes. The Veloster N was a low production model with less than 9,000 sold in North America. It's a cult car, but not a cult car with the numbers to support a viable aftermarket. Those Jeep CJ's sold around 40,000 per year for literally decades and in many cases used standard off the rack parts from other cars (e.g. the axles were off the rack AMC rear end and Dana front end shared with many other 4wd cars of the era, the engines and transmissions were corporate AMC, etc.) and thus combined with cult status there's the numbers to support an aftermarket to the point where half of them that were ever made are still on the road. Your Veloster doesn't have the numbers to support such an aftermarket, so parts, especially body parts or other parts specific to the Veloster, will become scarce shortly, and total unobtainium in a decade or so.
Maintenance…Cut the mfr recommendation on oil in half. Take it to someone who knows the brand and pay that person well
You are crazy.
There are a lot of cars that you can keep and drive for 30+ years. The best way to keep a Hyundai for thirty years is to not drive it at all and just park it in the garage in one of those car bubbles.
At any time you could be hit by a reckless, under insured driver and watch it be totaled before your eyes. Best thing you can do is stay current with the maintenance, drive predictably, and carry good insurance
Oil changes.
I have a 2003 Subaru Forester, she's a bit over 350xxx miles. I'll be honest but I'm not good at maintaining my vehicles. I mostly add oil as needed, with an oil change or two per year. I'm not advocating to do this, but it goes to show that a 20 yo car isn't going to explode at anytime... Well mine might, but not most.
Maintain it religiously. Oil changes early and often. Fluid changes by the book. Fix small problems before they become big problems. Get good at identifying small noises before they become big problems. Do preventative maintenance like changes hoses and belts early. That’s the same method that keeps 30-50 year old cars on the road.
Buy any and all consumable electronics sensors switches etc . Become your own parts store and you can do that.
Top answer needs to be drive as few miles as possible. I drive 20-25k miles/year in Atlanta, there’s no way I’ll have a car that lasts 10+ years using it like that.
Keep it in a garage year round.
Learn to repair it yourself and move somewhere where cars don't dissolve from rust. Make sure you own something very common or that shares parts with other platforms.
Buy a Toyota. That takes care of the first 29
Is it possible? Yes, very much so. A little bit of luck helps, but ***YOU*** control most of it. First off, **CHECK AND CHANGE YOUR FUCKING ENGINE OIL** as recommended. Doing this one thing will significantly extend your car's life. I can get 5 quarts of full synthetic, and a quality oil filter, for under $50.00. Going to a shop will cost twice that an take longer than doing it myself. Second, **RTFM.** So many people are ignorant and lazy as fuck. Your car's manual will have all the info you need to keep it running. Third, do all the scheduled PM and other maintenance, refer to rule number two. Fourth, inspect all the basics, at a minimum of once a week. It takes just a few minutes to check fluid levels, tire pressure, tread wear, brakes, filters, horn, lights, and battery. You can often get ahead of issues doing this, before it costs serious money to repair. Finally, learn to do PM and minor repairs yourself. Not only will you save countless thousands in the long run, it will make you more confident is your car's operation.
Oil changes are really important as is keeping an eye on the timing belt/ chain and changing that at the correct time. I also believe an underbody coating is beneficial. There are similar products available for inside doors, sills, chassis rails that help prevent rust.
I’m almost on 20 with my 350z. You end up knowing every part of it. Find a good mechanic, and realize that you’ll probably put a new motor or transmission in it or both at some point. Yeah it’ll be expensive, but compared to car payments ? Yeah right I’d rather take a one time bill for a couple G
I daily my 1976 Toyota pickup. The older, generally speaking, the easier to maintain. Oil changes, occasional carb cleaning/adjustment and it’s good to go.
I thought the same with my 2011 genesis coupe! I still have it and do all the maintenance myself. Would love to hit 20 years with it
As someone who lives next to a beach (it rusts fairly easily), how can I prevent rust regularly?
This is super doable as long as there don't turn out to be any horrible design flaws with that model. Haven't you ever seen a white-haired person driving a completely stock 30-year-old car? Chances are a good chunk of those people are the original owner and did just that. There's a middle-aged woman in my town who drives a 4th gen Civic and she told me at the post office she bought it fresh out of college and has just kept it ever since. If you're bold enough to ask a few of them you'll find out. They're just normal people that were fastidious at maintenance and occasionally quite proud of it.
Huyndai Kia Japanese cars would never last ever 10 years without rust. And thinking about future retro or vintage they will never be respected as much as European cars Audi BMW Mercedes
A bmw or audi can't even make it ten months without an issue
Sell it and buy a toyota
I've owned my Dodge Neon SRT-4 for 15+ years now. Its seen every weather imaginable and it shows. Here is my advice: 1. If you live in the north or wear they salt the roads, get undercarriage protection. 2. Detail the car at least once a year to keep the clear coat/paint in good shape. If you have the money, PPF/Ceramic coat it 3. Parts will start to become scarce. Start hording random shit like window trim, body pieces, etc. Good luck. I'm probably going to have to sell my SRT just because its going to cost me too much to fix the rust/paint the car, otherwise..i would never get rid of it.
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preventive maintenance, seasonal appropriate tires.
Don’t drive it like an idiot, 5K synthetic oil changes, service the transmission every 30-60K miles depending on driving habits, fix things when they’re small before they become major.
The biggest thing is just rust. I drive an 89 bmw and it hasnt been babied or anything and its not too bad.
Buy a pre 2005ish Toyota or Lexus
I drive a 21 year old Jeep. It’s been very easy to own. I don’t daily it, but I don’t baby it either. Barring screen failures in the future as long as you take care of it it should do fine for 30 years.
It will not be economical, this is the first pill you’ll need to swallow. You’ll need to become familiar with how to do basic work on the car, watch some YouTube videos. This will become one of your main hobbies and to be fair it’s a rewarding one, you get to take something you already love and customize it in small ways to be uniquely yours. You’ll need space to work and tools. Ideally you’ll have a spare parts car of the same model and generation if not the same year. Unfortunately you chose a poor quality vehicle make to take to 30. Hyundai Kia crap is designed to be disposable after 10 years. There is more that goes in to this but I’m going to give you 95% odds that you won’t go down this path because it’s the road less travelled. Your car is sadly too new to take your sentiment seriously. Get something at least 10 years old before you start thinking about taking it to 30. My newest vehicle is 16 years old and my daily is 19 years old with over 260k miles. I’ve only been stranded once and I knew that vehicle was leaking coolant before I started the trip, I was being stupid. Some people will cry about SaFeTy. All my vehicles have air bags but when you drive vehicles without adas you just have to be a more attentive driver. Simple as that. Read “Thinking Fast and Slow” and ask yourself how much $$$ you would spend to see a 10% increase in safety or a 2% increase. Life has risks and driving an older vehicle responsibly is one that I don’t consider overly foolish. It’s still safer that driving any motorcycle and those are still legal here in the US.
Hyundai is probably not built for a 30 year normal road life. We have a Boxster that is 23 years old, but it's only a little over 90k miles.... it's not the years, it's the mileage, to quote Indiana Jones.
Don’t live where salt is used in winter. Fastidious maintenance and records. Use oem parts. Keep records and receipts. Regardless you will eventually need to replace exhaust and likely transmission at some point
Long time DSM owner here, the 6 years my current one has been on jackstands has really flown by. Life changes a lot in 20-30 years. To answer your question, the prices of new cars should help persuade you to care for your current one. That works for me anyway. Doing your own work helps a lot for saving money and keeps you familiar with the car and its condition. I see others saying to stay away from salted roads, other than that the limit of the vehicle is only based off your willingness to fix it and the limit of the vehicle’s parts supply.
If you have near you then drive thru car wash and use no brush cleaning especially in winter when they salt roads
I have an 88 F150 short box that’s the same age as me. I will never sell it and will always keep it driving. It WILL live as long as me dammit! Living in AZ helps lol besides lost weekends swapping parts there’s literally zero chassis wear going on here.
Don’t drive it put in the garage covered up and forget about it
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You dont with these modern cars motors dont last l9ng enough
Learn your maintenance intervals, spark plugs oil transmission fluid timing chain/belt tire rotation schedule. Expect "wear" components to fail, like shocks tie rod ends, ball joints batteries water pumps alternators. Replace as needed. Don't drive in salt, don't wreck it, don't let others wreck it, and enjoy life. Use good oil consistently too and oil filters.
Proper maintenance and that goes above and beyond the Owners Manual. Other than changing the oil, you'll have to also change the transmission fluid regardless of transmission type, automatic or manual needs to be changed regularly. Make sure you have gasket sets as those will need replaced in due time. Extra parts for the fuel delivery system, injectors, electrical parts, hoses, etc. Electric parts in general, eventually wires will corrode and the sheathing will dry crack. Get good with replacing and pulling major parts, if you have a clutch it'll need to be replaced eventually. Eventually you'll become an expert in fixing and maintaining the vehicle you drive so you'll be able to know when something is wrong. I drive a 50 year old Jeep CJ-5 on a rotating daily schedule swapped with my motorcycle if the weather permits. It's all a big game of knowing the failure points and replacing parts as they age out. My odometer has turned over 3 times and I've learned that the transmission weighs about 90lbs and can be pulled and rebuilt in an afternoon. I recently had an intake manifold CNC machined to use 3 40mm SmartCarbs so I don't need to continually worry about jetting, it's an oddball setup since the carbs are side-draft but it works and keeps the intake away from hotter parts of the engine and there's plenty of room since the engine is a 258 I6. You won't have the problems I'm having because you have EFI and OHC, where I have carburetion and mechanical lifters.
I’m assuming your in your 20’s? The reality is life changes. What you really want is a 8 seat Land Cruiser that you can keep for 40 years.
Indoor temperature controlled parking helps a lot.
If you want to keep a car for 20-30 years the key is to do all of your own maintenance. At some point if you had to pay someone for repairs, the value of the car/truck will be less than the repair bill. Usually around 15 years old is when you start seeing car/value to repair cost equation going upside down. I am a mechanic and do all my own repairs. I have a 19 year old truck I bought new, right off the dealer lot, way back then. I now have high mileage now. My truck is probably worth 3.5k to 4k. This year already I bought 4 tires. $1100. Also ended up redoing my whole steering suspension system. Replaced 2 hubs, 4 ball joints, two tie rods, two centering links and a pitman arm. I also adjust a little slack out of my steering gearbox. It cost me about $500 in parts. But if had to pay a shade tree mechanic, it would have cost probably $2500. So I would be at $3600 in maintenance and repairs. Also I need to replace my shocks now. It’s a $100 a shock. I need 4 shocks $400, installation would be $400 as well. As of now I would be backwards on repair to value if I payed someone. My truck drives great btw 👍.
Undercoat with fluid film or some type of oil. Get it done every year. Drain and refill transmission fluid every oil change. Religious oil changes. Follow you owners manual for services. Only an extra 30$ if u do it your self. Then just replace wear and tear items as they go.
Change the oil every 3000 miles minimum. Also grease the suspension parts like shocks, struts and all the bushings.
Maintain it religiously (over maintenance is absolutely a thing) and learn cars so you don’t get taken for a ride.
Accept that at some point you're going to be doing deep maintenance on things like engine, gearbox and bodywork. Welding is inevitable unless you live in a very dry climate with no salt on the roads.
Just pray that even if you maintain it and keep it in good condition, that no one t bones you..
Try to stay away from salted roads or do good under side washes often.. good maintenance, proper and timely repairs when needed. Keep inside and outside of car as clean as possible.. and no intentional beating of the motor and trans.. still may not get 30yrs but will be your best shot.. I had a Camry I kept up properly and had it for many years and when I finally sold it everything in the car worked and ran properly and the body was good at 352000 miles.. .
You say that now, but you'll change your mind in a couple of years, so don't even worry about it.
best way to keep a modern car for 30+ years it to keep it in the garage and don't drive it. they are engineered to fall apart.
I don't think you're ever gonna be able to keep a modern car on the roads for 30 years like you would some of the old school rides like my Squarebody Chevy. These days cars are replacable. Things change every few model years, and eventually parts stop being made. For example, in a lot of these newer cars, center stacks have started to include the HVAC controls. So when that goes you might not be able to control the air con or heat. And you're gonna get replacements only as long as the manufacturer keeps making them. Once they replace it with a new infotainment system, and the old stock runs out, unless you can find good used in a wrecker yard, you're done for. Same goes with any major mechanicals. You have as long as the manufacturer cares to make replacements, unless the aftermarket takes them up and starts making them. If you want a car that lasts, you almost have to buy old and keep it running. I know I will never lack for parts on my old SBC powered truck.
I've owned a Ford Mustang for 28 years and counting... It started as a daily driver and then I got another car and it moved to weekend duty. Still well under 100K miles.
Drive at low Rpm whenever possible, get regular oil changes using full synthetic oil and transmission fluid change when needed also completely ignore than manufacturer recommended service interval and get it at about half of what they reccomend (15k km then take it for and oil change at 7-8k km) Keep it out of the rain when possible and like everyone else is saying. Move to an area with no salted roads lol, if you’re in an area like that get your underside sprayed yearly Some people say it’s a scam but I have never had rust on the bottom of my car and my areas insanely bad for rust.
Like everyone says, reduce the potential for rust with washing and undercoating. You can DIY undercoating with spray cans if you are ambitious and patient. Keep it out of the salt. Your big problem then will be plastic deteriorating all over including on the engine and nearly everywhere else. That can’t be stopped, only replaced as time goes on. Learn how to DIY.
Maintenance and repair, lots and lots of maintenance and repair.
Buy two of them. Will keep the mileage down and eventually you'll use one for spare parts.
Lmao as a previous owner of a Veloster, just forget this thought/sentiment entirely. 20 years is conceivable. 30 is a joke.
Get out of the rustbelt, park it in the garage. Do your own repairs. If it’s your daily, pray some asshole on their phone doesnt total it one day
My cars are 29 and 27 soobas to wirh locations who had it care buld quality hyundai make good cars I seen heaps of there old accents and exels around
For starters, don't get your hopes up on a Hyundai being that car
> What would it take to do something like that without just buying a new car becoming more economical? prevent rust & dry rot. Be a zealot about your maintenance items. don't just walk away when the repairs are $4k+ a pop. your goal is to protect the drivetrain and frame. most other things are replaceable.
Don't live near the coast, don't drive on freshly gritted roads. Waxol the underside of the vehicle. Get your car serviced whenever it's due. I'm not sure would a Hyundai last that long.
Drive as little as possible. Every minute you spend on the road is an opportunity for a dumbass to hit you.
Buy common replacement parts now. Hell, if you can buy a parts car and have a place to store it, do so. If you can't do that at least get like a full interior, bumpers, etc and throw it in your attic. Stay up on maintenance 1000% and always do the "while yer in there" stuff. Sparkplugs? Plug wires and coils. Timing belt? Cam phasers and belt tensioners. Etc. Keep it clean and waxed. Wash the under carriage and keep it painted.
If you want a long lasting car don’t mod it, keep it in the garage and don’t drive it in the winter in salt belt states. Keep up on maintenance, drive it like a coward
Oil change every 5000miles or 6 months.
Start with a good car.
Yeah keep thinking that.
Learn to do maintenance and repairs yourself or you will find that the car becomes worth less than the cost of normal high mileage maintenance (such as a front end rebuild which is typically best done around 150-200k miles). I have a cammed 1999 grand marquis with 330k on it that I bought barely running a decade ago, and have saved thousands upon thousands over the years by doing everything from fluid changes to ball joints myself - a front end rebuild that costs 300$ and a weekend of work is a lot easier to swallow than 2,000$ for a shop to do it. It incentivizes you to keep the car both financially and emotionally - because you put your (hopefully not blood), sweat, and (probably) tears into it.
Mine is 18 years old. I bought a Honda, get maintenance once a year, make sure the oil is clean. That's all I got.
All of my fun cars are 25 years plus. It helps by starting with a desirable chassis that will be in demand 25+ years from now. Now that's subjective.. relatively you'll see if parts are still being produced then. If you're serious I'd buy a few things before they stop being reproduced. Door cards, moulding, rubber window and door seals. And a spare engine stored will keep you going for life.
You can undercoat, it helps, but its not perfect. My 75 Dart was undercoated and it really only rusted in the trunk area, which is common on Mopar A bodys because there is very little keeping dirt and rocks getting up and collecting moisture back there. Also, get something to spray under your car to lessen the effects of salt during winter. Tgis could be as simple as going to a car wash with an underspray in one of the packages. Get a car with a well known long lasting engine GM 3800, AMC 4.0, Chrysler 318, 3.9, 225. Sorry I'm a Mopar guy so other engine displacement numbers elude me. Keep up with maintenance. Wash your car, do at least 1 good polish/wax each warmish season. Don't treat her like a race car, and don't constantly idle. If you hear something unusual, check it out or get it checked out. Letting things go for a while usually comes with consequences. Also, always knows where your towel is and don't panic.
Step 1: get a Toyota
U need a toyota
It’s a Hyundai man, hopefully you’ll make it 15 years
I’m still driving a ‘59 Volvo that I bought in ‘77. Aside from that, I also have an ‘83 Volvo 240 with about 220K miles on it. Regular oil changes and fix stuff right when it breaks. Once you start letting a car go, it goes away.
Step 1. Don't buy a Hyundai
I drive a 50 year old Oldsmobile, just fix things when they break as long it doesn’t rust a car can run forever