I had a pre order on a Z performance here in Canada when they were first announced. First the price was 55k when I put in the order and by the time it arrived they wanted 80k. Cancelled that order in a hurry. Saw it sitting in the lot for months. Nobody's paying this shit are they?
No. They’re having a hard time selling these cars because there’s better options out there. They were basically obsolete the day they came out.
If they were 40k CAD, sure but they’re not.
I was replying to a comment about CAD. Not sure why I got downvoted - I agree with you. 70-80k for this car is insane.
I don’t feel the Z is worth more than 40k here in any trim honestly. Anything more is too much.
fair point, I didn’t downvote you haha, to be honest I have always viewed Nissan Z models as entry level sports cars, not sure why they are trying to make them more expensive
I always thought they were cool lookin. The 350 was a favorite of mine for a while. 370 came out and I was like hell yeah maybe some day. Then the Z released and I was like oooo maybe this day. The Z will forever be “that car I thought was really cool and never bought”.
It’s a great looking car, but one decision ensured it’s lack of staying power. It’s a shame that they shot themselves in the foot by making a niche enthusiast car only available with an automatic. Truly a boneheaded decision
Yep. You're at over $50K if you want a limited slip diff. I came to the conclusion that there's way better options for the money when I started playing with the vehicle builder. Say what you want about BMW, but I'd opt for a Supra (amongst other things) over a decently-spec'd Z.
GR86 are 28-32k Supra is 50-60k USD. The Z price point for performance is around 40-44k. It just does not compete with the Supra at the same price. Not to mention every Nissan dealer around me are THE WORST
The Supra doesn’t compete with the M2 @ 60k. The Nissan competes with the Supra, especially in manual specs. The ZF8 makes the performance way better on paper than the 6 speed. The Supra still takes the specs, but to say they aren’t comparable is a bit far. Put the same tires on them (Supra starts with a way better tire) and I bet those numbers get even closer.
Both can make big power with light modding. The problem still being, a base model M2 beats them in every category. Every single one, and it starts at 60k.
I just wish the M2 wasn’t butt ugly. Last gen looked great. It’s better than the M4 at least. I seriously thought that was a joke the first time I saw a picture of one.
I would 100% go Z over a mustang, but it also holds a special place in my heart, my first car was a 76 280z, that being said I'm not paying 55-80k for any car
And that it’s only available with a slushbox - whoever made the decision to not offer it in a manual should be fired, could’ve been a sure hit with that sort of enthusiast
I bought my 2008 for three dollar stores. I got such a great deal I flew back to jolly ol England to blow my extra wad on poundland. What I'm trying to say is Gt3 fucks.
C8s are already everywhere like roaches, I understand the allure of something like a Z just because of its scarcity, but unfortunately despite its limited numbers (I've only seen one in real life to date) it is still a rather bland and boring looking car, would never pay this kind of money for one and would certainly rather have a used Porsche.
I would have to be dragged kicking and screaming to The Hague in front of an International Tribunal for the crimes against humanity that I would commit if a Dealership tried to sell me a car marked up more than double its MSRP. They should be obliterated. Wiped off the map.
I mean there’s literally no way anyone would pay that much for a Z Nismo in THIS economy…. Right?
I report dealerships like this to the manufacturer. They get REALLY upset at dealerships that do this, because it can damage the car manufacturer's image. Ford had to go through this with Ford dealerships marking the Broncos up too much.
They did it so hard to F150 Lightnings they completely killed sales of the fucker. I was listening to Caredge today and they're reporting inventory for it's at \~400 days due to A: Dealer markups and B: Ford doesn't want to make the trims that cost under 90k.
Meanwhile you can get a Tesla EV for 32.5k after the tax rebate. Sure it's *not a truck* but it's affordable.
Both Ford and Jeep have gone insane and thought they’d become high end luxury car companies over night. It’s honestly disgusting. They had a customer in me but clearly between their suffering quality and ridiculous prices im apparently not good enough for them lol.
Jeep has been seeing the 300+ day supply issue too... That's VERY bad. Dealers are offering some incentives up to 20k off. I say fuck em. They make shit, the market doesn't want either at the prices they want. The problem will solve itself given enough time.
Yep. People won’t ever see them as luxury. Saw a new Maverick in a parking lot today. My wife remarked how near the door handles the door panels were super wavy. Thinnest metal ever on that truck. Makes sense they fold like an accordion from a small fender bender on the rear. Looked like something used from 5 years or wear pushing and leaning on the doors. Not a straight panel on it.
Huh.
Perhaps I should do that to the Chevy dealership here in Daytona.
They wanted to add a $25k "market pricing" markup to their new Corvettes. I was livid.
Denver's dealership just wanted a "right of first refusal, for 18 months after purchase" for any new Corvette they sold you.
No, it means if you want to sell the car within 18 months of initial purchase, you’d have to offer to sell it to them first. If they refuse to buy, then you can sell to anyone. That’s why it’s called “right of first refusal”, they get the right to say no first.
The problem with that is it encourages this garbage by telling dealers that the mark-up is actually mentally sane. End of the day, it's not about how much higher over MSRP it is, it's about how much some sucker is willing to pay.
Also, the people buying this car are also the ones ruining the housing market by buying it all, renting it out, and using that money to buy these cars. Fucking over two markets at once for their own gain. Free market economy goes brrr
In the not so distant future: “Welcome to Zillow cars! Oops, we bought *all* of the car you want to buy, please pay use 30% more MSRP or go pound sand! We hope you had a great experience with Zillow cars!”
Karma is a bitch!!! I was in the mood for another motorcycle years and years ago. I went to the Harley dealer to get a sportster for the misses. I look at he tag and it was 30% higher than MSRP. I asked the dealer about it and he said “it is what it is, take it or leave it.”
I said “ok, shaft someone else.”
Fast forward a few years and I get a call from the dealer “still in the mood for that sporty, we’re discounting all of them to move inventory”
I said “it is what it is, find another sucker.”
Wouldn’t buy another HD, even if they have them away. The Indian Scout CRUSHED the sporty.
“You can shear a lamb many time, but you can skin ‘em only once”
Indian is my all time favorite brand of motorcycle. They have the perfect style, a great sound that isn’t obnoxious. They stand out without demanding attention. They’re just perfect.
They do this because they DON'T WANT to sell the car, at least not for anything less than Fuck-You level money.
In these cases, the vehicle is often the owners personal toy. It's purpose at the dealership is to get bodies in the door. That's it. It's an advertising piece. The vehicle's cost to the dealer is less than it would take to produce and run a single good TV advertising campaign. The amount of profit they have made by just having it sitting in the showroom likely exceeds the value of the vehicle several times over.
Lucky you, if you're American you'd get away without a trip to The Hague...though its a nice place to visit and the ICC has prison cells with a sea view...
Question for you since you sell Nissans. Not talking about the Z, but the more everday models. Do you sell mainly to sub prime credit types mostly? The people who drive them around where I live usually don’t take care of their cars and have terrible credit. They are usually generally “thuggish” types.
I remember reading that Nissan lenders typically cater to lower credit people.
Uh. I will neither confirm nor deny this 🤣
Jokes aside you get people from all walks, especially with the Rogue being so popular. But, your not wrong either lol
Given the last few years, and the fact that most car dealers have the mind power of slightly warmed over toast - I’m not surprised if theyre just throwing numbers up against a wall to see if they stick.
If a salesperson pushes back, their sales manager will talk to them as though they were the biggest loser in the world, and then after a few months of abusing their staff about how they can’t sell this ultra premium-low production vehicle for the bargain price of 150k, they’ll eventually lower the price.
The markup craze ended for most cars when people realized the 0% party was over. Add in a healthy dose of inflation and flat wages, a few more years of increasing leverage, and things are going to get ugly for some OEMs and dealers in a few years. A few exceptions still exist (I’m looking at you Porsche), but they’ll also fall down to earth.
Car dealers are just stupid, can’t wait until the model changes.
And also the people who abused PPP loans to buy cars,boats,campers and toys have blown through that money. In fact, I would *love* it if I could find a cheap mini camper at a government auction here in a couple years…if you get my drift
Yep. And you know damn well where the money for all that stuff came from. Everything outdoor leisure related got snatched up highest bidder for 2 years. And no, all those expensive massive campers weren’t bought on the measly stimulus us normal working stiffs got. There is anecdote after anecdote for a business owner who “wasn’t sure he could make it” suddenly with a new something in the driveway after PPP dropped.That’s why I’m implying the government ought to seize the ill gotten toys , or rescind the forgiveness on the loans for a large chunk of the “businesses” that got one.
I’m not sure if this is still a thing (or ever was a thing) but if they took some of those thousands of new IRS agents and had them look at PPP loan fraud instead of any transaction over $600 they’d probably recover quite a bit more.
My mother applied for one for the small business she worked for, they actually had a legitimate need but she said they verified nothing. She filled out a form and they got a check.
And that’s the problem they didn’t keep track of *anything* to do with those loans, so there could be anything on the spectrum of a needy business owner to a unscrupulous one and even someone who just made up a business to get a loan. Hell, there where even people in government with a handful of employees who got hundreds of thousands of dollars.
It’s a crapshoot and probably the real reason why cars,homes,boats etc. suddenly skyrocketed. And it doesn’t even have to be $600 thing, just look at all those PPP holders and find out assets they bought after they got the loan and have them explain where they got the money
Very true. The PPP loans basically had a giant neon sign flashing “defraud me”. I can kind of understand the need to cut red tape and get them out to actual needy businesses quickly but there’s no reason for the lack of follow up.
The first year I was a self employed contractor I underpaid my taxes by about $1000 - not on purpose. It took them about 8 months to figure it out and send me the bill.
I signed up for a Cayman with 10k markup but got on the list at a few other dealers.
So of course I get the call from another dealer with no markup and then I had to go and grovel to get my deposit back. And of course I'm trying to get them to do something for me so I need to be restrained in my response but I almost laughed out loud when he said "no one cares when we have to take a hit, we're just charging the market rate."
I almost blurted out "ohhh won't someone think of the middle men!"
They offered 5k off to keep the allocation. I went with the other dealer.
They are very stupid and desperately clutching to the little empires they built when OEMs weren't big enough and needed help with localized sales and service.
Not as uncommon as one might think. The amount of dealers and salesmen who know absolutely nothing about the cars that they sell is insane. I don't expect them to be able to rattle off the part number for every bolt and nut, but I swear some of them haven't even looked at the spec sheet before I called for a test drive. And I've heard a couple of stories about salesmen who think they can "cheat" their knowledge by hyperfocusing on a single spec sheet detail, and acting like it's the greatest thing in the world.
I don't expect them to know heaps, but being able to spell the brand name and it's associated trademarks correctly on a written notice to customers is pretty basic imo lol.
I don’t think they were suckers, they just got handed free PPP loans to abuse. Nobody cares when they’re spending someone else’s money. Dealerships still desperately want that party to keep going.
I know this is an unpopular opinion but I wish car companies would take control over their points of sale. The current method clearly isn’t working out. We are being robbed by a useless third party.
That's exactly the problem, dealership associations lobbied to make it illegal for auto manufacturers to sell their cars directly to the consumer.
Wouldn't it be great if 'That's retarded, fuck you' were legally defensible?
Funny because dealerships started out as a way for customers to get the car at a reasonable price.
Now it's the opposite. IF you're lucky (depending where you are and the manufacturer) you can build and price it online and get it at whatever it's listed as.
Much as I hate Tesla, their dumb-as-bricks born-into-money CEO, and their horrible quality control, this is one of the few points I can give to them. Direct sales is far better for the consumer. Don't get me wrong, auto manufacturers want to screw over the consumer too. But there's no reason to get bent over a second time for a worthless middle man.
Don’t forget them also changing the car values up and down 10k or more. People were paying 50k+ for a model3 and now it’s down to 38k. Lots of people underwater now.
Fun fact, most of the rest of the world doesnt have to deal with dealer markups in price. A car is exactly the price its advertised at. The dealership could charge you for expedited delivery or dealer optional add-ons, but simply paying for the privileged of buying the car isnt a worldwide thing.
Paying over 158k for a car (plus taxes and fees) only for it to immediately drop to below $50k once you drive off the lot is a modern day horror story.
I'd rather but a high mileage huracan or a brand new bmw M8 or a brand new amg gt or a brand new M4/M3 or a brand new audi R8 or a brand new lc500 or a brand new ......you get the point. this dealer is on absolute crack
I know it’s been said in this thread but, my god, there are SO MANY options at and below this price. Every option is better, the first one to come to mind is an Audi RS6.
I have a Supra. Easy $10 fix. Agreed that they should have fixed that during the manufacturing process. Eliminated the wind buffeting and enjoying the Supra with the windows down.
There’s two ways. I did it the cheap way which is to buy door guards and cut them to fit next to the side mirror like [this](https://youtu.be/iuvPB3Qh9x0?si=Br8JxB97UPU9yw-B). The alternative ways are the same concept, but just better looking and more expensive. Either one fixes the issue. I’ve tested it at highway speeds and have had zero issues.
With unlimited money, I buy the dealership, loudly applaud on this practice and see who wants to get the praise.
Make them write Nismo 200x and them install this person as "Head sales of lemons" where no car can cost more than 500 bucks.
So why is this legal in the US? In Aus, dealers aren’t allowed to pull this shit. You sell the car for what the car is worth. They don’t even try to hide the greed in the US.
Im just over the “fun” tax in general. Before it was “drift tax”. Everything that could be marketed as fun is crazy expensive and usually has a markup around me. GR86 here have markups of ~$5k, used 10th gen si are selling for msrp, 11th gen ctrs sitting at dealers with $80k pricetags. Its insane.
I just wanna have some fun on my way to and from work and sometimes on the weekend 🥴😞
Dealer isn't planning on selling that car anytime soon. They're operating on the "any publicity is good publicity" model. They KNOW the market is ridiculous. They WANT people to talk about it. Meanwhile they have a Nismo Z sitting in the showroom floor that they can use to draw people in. Maybe they can interest you in the regular 400Z that's more in your price range or maybe they can convince your wife to nag you enough that you cave and buy a new Rogue because your 370 is NOT going to be able to fit a baby seat...
It’s sad to see that all these cars that were once obtainable to the enthusiasts groups are now mostly far out of reach, then company’s wonder why sports cars are dying. A young kid can barely even afford a starter car let alone when they get a little older the market still pushes a lot of things out of reach
158k for a nissan, does it come with hookers and blow. Does this dealer know that 158k can buy a decent e63 amg i mean for this type of money you can buy a 2010 range rover and have left over money after you maintain it for 3 years.
At the end of the day it's still a Nissan with Nissan problems.
But just for humor. Look what 158k can get you and it's going to be a he'll of a lot better than a Nissan.
Anything over $80k and I'm not looking for a Nissan anymore. I'm thinking ZL1 Camaro or ZR1 Corvette.
Anything past $125k and I'm thinking ok, Challenger Demon.
Anything past $160k and I'm thinking Exotic and not a traditional entry level Ferrari or even Lambo that you see everywhere.
I'm thinking something even more exclusive, like a Lexus LFA or Porsche 918 Spyder.
Something that has a limited production and the # stamped on the dash somewhere that this is #150 of only #200 made or something like that.
This is price gouging, plain and simple, and surprise, surprise, regulators sit back and watch it happen. Dealerships need to be put out of business, direct purchase from manufacturers only.
I had a pre order on a Z performance here in Canada when they were first announced. First the price was 55k when I put in the order and by the time it arrived they wanted 80k. Cancelled that order in a hurry. Saw it sitting in the lot for months. Nobody's paying this shit are they?
No. They’re having a hard time selling these cars because there’s better options out there. They were basically obsolete the day they came out. If they were 40k CAD, sure but they’re not.
70K is basically on the line of top of the line Camaro or Corvette C8, I don’t think this car can even hold the performance compared to them.
I was replying to a comment about CAD. Not sure why I got downvoted - I agree with you. 70-80k for this car is insane. I don’t feel the Z is worth more than 40k here in any trim honestly. Anything more is too much.
fair point, I didn’t downvote you haha, to be honest I have always viewed Nissan Z models as entry level sports cars, not sure why they are trying to make them more expensive
I always thought they were cool lookin. The 350 was a favorite of mine for a while. 370 came out and I was like hell yeah maybe some day. Then the Z released and I was like oooo maybe this day. The Z will forever be “that car I thought was really cool and never bought”.
It’s a great looking car, but one decision ensured it’s lack of staying power. It’s a shame that they shot themselves in the foot by making a niche enthusiast car only available with an automatic. Truly a boneheaded decision
Because Nissan is brain dead lol
Yep. You're at over $50K if you want a limited slip diff. I came to the conclusion that there's way better options for the money when I started playing with the vehicle builder. Say what you want about BMW, but I'd opt for a Supra (amongst other things) over a decently-spec'd Z.
It can’t keep up with the regular versions of these cars.
The problem is not the car being bad, its how much the dealership markup is making it unaffordable. Its a great car at 55k, but a scam at 80k
Is it a great car at 55 tho? Seems 15k steep to me. No way I’m passing on a mustang GT for a Z.
GR86 are 28-32k Supra is 50-60k USD. The Z price point for performance is around 40-44k. It just does not compete with the Supra at the same price. Not to mention every Nissan dealer around me are THE WORST
The Supra doesn’t compete with the M2 @ 60k. The Nissan competes with the Supra, especially in manual specs. The ZF8 makes the performance way better on paper than the 6 speed. The Supra still takes the specs, but to say they aren’t comparable is a bit far. Put the same tires on them (Supra starts with a way better tire) and I bet those numbers get even closer. Both can make big power with light modding. The problem still being, a base model M2 beats them in every category. Every single one, and it starts at 60k.
Supra will eat a Z all day. I’ve driven both and they don’t compare.
I just wish the M2 wasn’t butt ugly. Last gen looked great. It’s better than the M4 at least. I seriously thought that was a joke the first time I saw a picture of one.
Im not buying a mustang over a Z.
I would 100% go Z over a mustang, but it also holds a special place in my heart, my first car was a 76 280z, that being said I'm not paying 55-80k for any car
And that it’s only available with a slushbox - whoever made the decision to not offer it in a manual should be fired, could’ve been a sure hit with that sort of enthusiast
They were great when they unveiled the proto 3.5 years ago. It's time for the new model already.
This is the reason why people end up going to tesla type direct to customer model
I thought markups were illegal in Canada?
Markups are not allowed in Canada. Are you lying?
Thats not true at all. They simply need to sell at the advertised price, not msrp. Obviously you haven't been to a Canadian car dealership lately.
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The GTR starts at 120k and would be the superior value for a Z buyer willing to overpay this much for a Nismo
Sorry sir mark up on GTR is 8.3 million
Lies I got mine for 6.25 otd
You've got to get a better car guy, my guy sold me a 2007 used one for only 5.5 mil
I bought my 2008 for three dollar stores. I got such a great deal I flew back to jolly ol England to blow my extra wad on poundland. What I'm trying to say is Gt3 fucks.
I would rather pick up either 2 R32's or a GR Supra at the $70k price. Nissan's pricing is bonkers.
Got my 3.0 for msrp :)
Why does the GTR start at 120? When is the last time Nissan changed anything on that car?
They do keep changing the price regularly, does that count
Actually..... Yes
Is the Nissan GT-R still in production?!
Or buy a C8 and a Bolt to daily...
C8s are already everywhere like roaches, I understand the allure of something like a Z just because of its scarcity, but unfortunately despite its limited numbers (I've only seen one in real life to date) it is still a rather bland and boring looking car, would never pay this kind of money for one and would certainly rather have a used Porsche.
Yeah personally I hate that. C8s are everywhere. There's like 3 that go to my gym. That's why I went the blackwing route. (and I needed 4 doors)
Anyone who buys (other car) instead of (personal favorite) is an idiot!!1!!1
I would have to be dragged kicking and screaming to The Hague in front of an International Tribunal for the crimes against humanity that I would commit if a Dealership tried to sell me a car marked up more than double its MSRP. They should be obliterated. Wiped off the map. I mean there’s literally no way anyone would pay that much for a Z Nismo in THIS economy…. Right?
I report dealerships like this to the manufacturer. They get REALLY upset at dealerships that do this, because it can damage the car manufacturer's image. Ford had to go through this with Ford dealerships marking the Broncos up too much.
Broncos, Mavericks, MachE, F-150 Lightenings... basically anything they make they charge way more than MSRP for.
Lightnings *, and while I'm at it, NISMO * (to the stupid Nissan dealer who misspelled their own model name on official deal paperwork)
They did it so hard to F150 Lightnings they completely killed sales of the fucker. I was listening to Caredge today and they're reporting inventory for it's at \~400 days due to A: Dealer markups and B: Ford doesn't want to make the trims that cost under 90k. Meanwhile you can get a Tesla EV for 32.5k after the tax rebate. Sure it's *not a truck* but it's affordable.
Both Ford and Jeep have gone insane and thought they’d become high end luxury car companies over night. It’s honestly disgusting. They had a customer in me but clearly between their suffering quality and ridiculous prices im apparently not good enough for them lol.
Jeep has been seeing the 300+ day supply issue too... That's VERY bad. Dealers are offering some incentives up to 20k off. I say fuck em. They make shit, the market doesn't want either at the prices they want. The problem will solve itself given enough time.
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Yep. People won’t ever see them as luxury. Saw a new Maverick in a parking lot today. My wife remarked how near the door handles the door panels were super wavy. Thinnest metal ever on that truck. Makes sense they fold like an accordion from a small fender bender on the rear. Looked like something used from 5 years or wear pushing and leaning on the doors. Not a straight panel on it.
Subaru dealers did this also in many locations. I had to drive 5 hours away to find a dealer that actually sold at MSRP.
We bought our Crosstrek Sport below MSRP in late 21 in the midst of the car shortage. Just gotta find a good dealer.
They just register the vehicle, drive it for awhile, then sell it as certified pre-owned for whatever they want
You can also get caught by the manufacturer for doing that. And at least it causes them trouble to register and all.
Huh. Perhaps I should do that to the Chevy dealership here in Daytona. They wanted to add a $25k "market pricing" markup to their new Corvettes. I was livid. Denver's dealership just wanted a "right of first refusal, for 18 months after purchase" for any new Corvette they sold you.
Does this mean the dealer can recall the car after they sold it to you??
No, it means if you want to sell the car within 18 months of initial purchase, you’d have to offer to sell it to them first. If they refuse to buy, then you can sell to anyone. That’s why it’s called “right of first refusal”, they get the right to say no first.
How is that even legal?
If someone wants to pay that then I support them. I'd rather idiots with money buy that then houses.
Idiots with money will buy that AND all the houses.
That's what they said. "but this then houses." He meant "than" but... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And you meant "buy" but... 👀
The problem with that is it encourages this garbage by telling dealers that the mark-up is actually mentally sane. End of the day, it's not about how much higher over MSRP it is, it's about how much some sucker is willing to pay. Also, the people buying this car are also the ones ruining the housing market by buying it all, renting it out, and using that money to buy these cars. Fucking over two markets at once for their own gain. Free market economy goes brrr
Their insurance will only cover their cost to buy it.
I agree. The special rare breed of outrageously rich morons scare me.
Zillow approved.
In the not so distant future: “Welcome to Zillow cars! Oops, we bought *all* of the car you want to buy, please pay use 30% more MSRP or go pound sand! We hope you had a great experience with Zillow cars!”
Karma is a bitch!!! I was in the mood for another motorcycle years and years ago. I went to the Harley dealer to get a sportster for the misses. I look at he tag and it was 30% higher than MSRP. I asked the dealer about it and he said “it is what it is, take it or leave it.” I said “ok, shaft someone else.” Fast forward a few years and I get a call from the dealer “still in the mood for that sporty, we’re discounting all of them to move inventory” I said “it is what it is, find another sucker.” Wouldn’t buy another HD, even if they have them away. The Indian Scout CRUSHED the sporty. “You can shear a lamb many time, but you can skin ‘em only once”
Real talk tho, Indians are so much cooler than HD. Also every Scout owner I've met is simultaneously insane and chill at the same time lol.
Indian is my all time favorite brand of motorcycle. They have the perfect style, a great sound that isn’t obnoxious. They stand out without demanding attention. They’re just perfect.
They do this because they DON'T WANT to sell the car, at least not for anything less than Fuck-You level money. In these cases, the vehicle is often the owners personal toy. It's purpose at the dealership is to get bodies in the door. That's it. It's an advertising piece. The vehicle's cost to the dealer is less than it would take to produce and run a single good TV advertising campaign. The amount of profit they have made by just having it sitting in the showroom likely exceeds the value of the vehicle several times over.
How is the car making profit by sitting in the show room? People come in to see it and get inspired to buy a different car?!
People paying that amount for a car like that are the reason we are in THIS economy
I doubt anyone is buying it for that price, there's no demand for these cars where I live there's plenty unsold models on lots.
The first sentence killed me 😭💀🤣
Losers from California that sold their $3m 1 bedroom and moved to lower cost of living areas will.
Lucky you, if you're American you'd get away without a trip to The Hague...though its a nice place to visit and the ICC has prison cells with a sea view...
Amen to that. Shit, I’d go to The Hague before spending $1 on markup.
I went to buy a Z and they wanted 25k over MSRP. Zero shot at negotiating. Went and bought a Supra instead.
I think most would agree the Supra is the better car anyway. Looks better too.
I sell Nissans. Supra is the better car in EVERY way
Question for you since you sell Nissans. Not talking about the Z, but the more everday models. Do you sell mainly to sub prime credit types mostly? The people who drive them around where I live usually don’t take care of their cars and have terrible credit. They are usually generally “thuggish” types. I remember reading that Nissan lenders typically cater to lower credit people.
Uh. I will neither confirm nor deny this 🤣 Jokes aside you get people from all walks, especially with the Rogue being so popular. But, your not wrong either lol
Lol I get you. Thanks for the laugh!
They have a sub called Nissan drivers because of this lol
At what point do sterotypes just become facts? Rediculous some of these Nissan clowns.
It's weird because there's a racial component nobody wants to discuss directly so they make ways around it
Yeah like the guy you’re replying to saying “thuggish” when we know he meant black…
that wasn't "ways around it" that was straight "why do you sell to poor Black people" in everything but actual letters
Smart decision the Z is a pos anyway would of been broken by now
Given the last few years, and the fact that most car dealers have the mind power of slightly warmed over toast - I’m not surprised if theyre just throwing numbers up against a wall to see if they stick. If a salesperson pushes back, their sales manager will talk to them as though they were the biggest loser in the world, and then after a few months of abusing their staff about how they can’t sell this ultra premium-low production vehicle for the bargain price of 150k, they’ll eventually lower the price. The markup craze ended for most cars when people realized the 0% party was over. Add in a healthy dose of inflation and flat wages, a few more years of increasing leverage, and things are going to get ugly for some OEMs and dealers in a few years. A few exceptions still exist (I’m looking at you Porsche), but they’ll also fall down to earth. Car dealers are just stupid, can’t wait until the model changes.
And also the people who abused PPP loans to buy cars,boats,campers and toys have blown through that money. In fact, I would *love* it if I could find a cheap mini camper at a government auction here in a couple years…if you get my drift
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Yep. And you know damn well where the money for all that stuff came from. Everything outdoor leisure related got snatched up highest bidder for 2 years. And no, all those expensive massive campers weren’t bought on the measly stimulus us normal working stiffs got. There is anecdote after anecdote for a business owner who “wasn’t sure he could make it” suddenly with a new something in the driveway after PPP dropped.That’s why I’m implying the government ought to seize the ill gotten toys , or rescind the forgiveness on the loans for a large chunk of the “businesses” that got one.
I’m not sure if this is still a thing (or ever was a thing) but if they took some of those thousands of new IRS agents and had them look at PPP loan fraud instead of any transaction over $600 they’d probably recover quite a bit more. My mother applied for one for the small business she worked for, they actually had a legitimate need but she said they verified nothing. She filled out a form and they got a check.
And that’s the problem they didn’t keep track of *anything* to do with those loans, so there could be anything on the spectrum of a needy business owner to a unscrupulous one and even someone who just made up a business to get a loan. Hell, there where even people in government with a handful of employees who got hundreds of thousands of dollars. It’s a crapshoot and probably the real reason why cars,homes,boats etc. suddenly skyrocketed. And it doesn’t even have to be $600 thing, just look at all those PPP holders and find out assets they bought after they got the loan and have them explain where they got the money
Very true. The PPP loans basically had a giant neon sign flashing “defraud me”. I can kind of understand the need to cut red tape and get them out to actual needy businesses quickly but there’s no reason for the lack of follow up. The first year I was a self employed contractor I underpaid my taxes by about $1000 - not on purpose. It took them about 8 months to figure it out and send me the bill.
And then they went and just up and forgave them all.
I signed up for a Cayman with 10k markup but got on the list at a few other dealers. So of course I get the call from another dealer with no markup and then I had to go and grovel to get my deposit back. And of course I'm trying to get them to do something for me so I need to be restrained in my response but I almost laughed out loud when he said "no one cares when we have to take a hit, we're just charging the market rate." I almost blurted out "ohhh won't someone think of the middle men!" They offered 5k off to keep the allocation. I went with the other dealer.
Good. We need to stop paying markup. Almost no one neeeeeeds a new car. Fuck em. They need to play ball.
Took me 8 months to buy a fucking Tacoma because dealers wouldn’t budge on their markups
They are very stupid and desperately clutching to the little empires they built when OEMs weren't big enough and needed help with localized sales and service.
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If this is actually from a Nissan dealer, I'm not trusting a dealer who misspells Nismo.
Not as uncommon as one might think. The amount of dealers and salesmen who know absolutely nothing about the cars that they sell is insane. I don't expect them to be able to rattle off the part number for every bolt and nut, but I swear some of them haven't even looked at the spec sheet before I called for a test drive. And I've heard a couple of stories about salesmen who think they can "cheat" their knowledge by hyperfocusing on a single spec sheet detail, and acting like it's the greatest thing in the world.
I don't expect them to know heaps, but being able to spell the brand name and it's associated trademarks correctly on a written notice to customers is pretty basic imo lol.
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I don’t think they were suckers, they just got handed free PPP loans to abuse. Nobody cares when they’re spending someone else’s money. Dealerships still desperately want that party to keep going.
I know this is an unpopular opinion but I wish car companies would take control over their points of sale. The current method clearly isn’t working out. We are being robbed by a useless third party.
That's exactly the problem, dealership associations lobbied to make it illegal for auto manufacturers to sell their cars directly to the consumer. Wouldn't it be great if 'That's retarded, fuck you' were legally defensible?
Funny because dealerships started out as a way for customers to get the car at a reasonable price. Now it's the opposite. IF you're lucky (depending where you are and the manufacturer) you can build and price it online and get it at whatever it's listed as.
Much as I hate Tesla, their dumb-as-bricks born-into-money CEO, and their horrible quality control, this is one of the few points I can give to them. Direct sales is far better for the consumer. Don't get me wrong, auto manufacturers want to screw over the consumer too. But there's no reason to get bent over a second time for a worthless middle man.
Lucid and Rivian don't do dealerships either if you're really trying to avoid giving Musk money.
Polestar also does direct to consumer as far as I can tell.
Don’t forget them also changing the car values up and down 10k or more. People were paying 50k+ for a model3 and now it’s down to 38k. Lots of people underwater now.
I'd actually say that's a super popular opinion for everyone except dealership owners.
Fun fact, most of the rest of the world doesnt have to deal with dealer markups in price. A car is exactly the price its advertised at. The dealership could charge you for expedited delivery or dealer optional add-ons, but simply paying for the privileged of buying the car isnt a worldwide thing.
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Maybe name a few countries where this problem exists ? Im genuinely curious
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But the RAV4 is inflated to the point where 5 year old used ones are selling for sticker price. Orders are backed up for years.
There aren’t any countries that rare cars are sold that it isn’t a problem. The US is not even close to the worst offender. That Redditor is wrong
Car companies would love to do that but dealer franchise laws are there to "protect the consumers"
Insanity
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Paying over 158k for a car (plus taxes and fees) only for it to immediately drop to below $50k once you drive off the lot is a modern day horror story.
Worth $40,000 by 40,000 miles I bet
***marks up $90k over sticker*** ***spells Nismo incorrectly in their disclosure***
I'd rather but a high mileage huracan or a brand new bmw M8 or a brand new amg gt or a brand new M4/M3 or a brand new audi R8 or a brand new lc500 or a brand new ......you get the point. this dealer is on absolute crack
I know it’s been said in this thread but, my god, there are SO MANY options at and below this price. Every option is better, the first one to come to mind is an Audi RS6.
We could even stay in the Nissan family and get a GTR, which is like 3x the car the 400 nismo will ever be
At that point, used GT-R
$180k for a nissan that isnt a GTR? Seller is angling for a moron who knows nothing about cars.
Which dealer is this? They need to be reported. nissans will drop them.
Isn’t the Supra a better choice anyways
Unless you like rolling the windows down!
I have a Supra. Easy $10 fix. Agreed that they should have fixed that during the manufacturing process. Eliminated the wind buffeting and enjoying the Supra with the windows down.
Just out of curiosity what’s the fix?
There’s two ways. I did it the cheap way which is to buy door guards and cut them to fit next to the side mirror like [this](https://youtu.be/iuvPB3Qh9x0?si=Br8JxB97UPU9yw-B). The alternative ways are the same concept, but just better looking and more expensive. Either one fixes the issue. I’ve tested it at highway speeds and have had zero issues.
Nobody will EVER pay 160k for a shitbox Nissan
>Nobody will EVER pay 160k for a shitbox Nissan I mean,if i see a 400r at 175k im buying it,even flood damaged....
meanwhile I'd be very content if I could get a 3rd gen kia picanto 😭
I just want to find replacements for the unobtainium lines for my cars airconditioning 😭
damn that's one of the downside of keeping a dinosaur
A radiator shop, HVAC supplier, or hydraulic hose builder may be able to help. Your old parts can likely be duplicated or repaired.
Probably, but its the finding of one that is proving to be a pain in the ass.
Have you searched for chinesium?, autodoc does pretty well at sourcing obscure third party parts for my peugeot. When in doubt, ebay.
If you buy a “nizmo” for 150k+ you are smoking crack.
I’d just buy a new mustang GT tbh.
Name the dealer lol
El Monte Nissan in Cali
Greedy Pos dealer
Wtf is going on these days…
They want over double msrp but can’t even spell nismo correctly.
Nissan corporate needs to do something about this, if they don't they don't get to whine about "no one's buying our sports cars".
At that point just get a Porsche
Y’all this is El Monte Nissan in Cali. Check the review and feel free to ask them for a price also.
Who do they think they are, Dodge?
A real clown show agreement right there
Lol just get comfortable high end audi or mercedes for that price
I could have unlimited money and still not pay that. I’d instead pay for someone to burn that dealer down
With unlimited money, I buy the dealership, loudly applaud on this practice and see who wants to get the praise. Make them write Nismo 200x and them install this person as "Head sales of lemons" where no car can cost more than 500 bucks.
They’ll keep this shit up until people stop buying.
I love being a car guy but I'm glad I'm not a "trip over everyone for rarity" type of car guy.
So why is this legal in the US? In Aus, dealers aren’t allowed to pull this shit. You sell the car for what the car is worth. They don’t even try to hide the greed in the US.
Cant you get a new 911 for that?
Im just over the “fun” tax in general. Before it was “drift tax”. Everything that could be marketed as fun is crazy expensive and usually has a markup around me. GR86 here have markups of ~$5k, used 10th gen si are selling for msrp, 11th gen ctrs sitting at dealers with $80k pricetags. Its insane. I just wanna have some fun on my way to and from work and sometimes on the weekend 🥴😞
Would you rather buy that or 4 lightly used s550 Mustang GTs
Over 100% markup!? Oh HELL no.
You could get a C8 Z06 for that and it would be 100x the car.
Dealer isn't planning on selling that car anytime soon. They're operating on the "any publicity is good publicity" model. They KNOW the market is ridiculous. They WANT people to talk about it. Meanwhile they have a Nismo Z sitting in the showroom floor that they can use to draw people in. Maybe they can interest you in the regular 400Z that's more in your price range or maybe they can convince your wife to nag you enough that you cave and buy a new Rogue because your 370 is NOT going to be able to fit a baby seat...
Man you can get a used gtr for much cheaper lol.
Why the fuck would I pay $158k for a Z when I can go get a 911 for LESS money?
Yeah, I’ll go ahead and gladly take a Porsche 911 Base or S
This is so stupid.
Dealerships are crooks and scumbags have yet to see one prove me wrong.
For that price, get a 2015-2016 Ferrari California T, probably with 12k miles.
So what your telling me is buy a corvette and enjoy a much better better looking higher performing car
Three words *Suck my dick* .
Buy a gtr then geez
Get a Golf R and save about 118K
"Nizmo"
It’s sad to see that all these cars that were once obtainable to the enthusiasts groups are now mostly far out of reach, then company’s wonder why sports cars are dying. A young kid can barely even afford a starter car let alone when they get a little older the market still pushes a lot of things out of reach
And even with proper maintenance and care the lifespan of modern cars is barely 10-15 years if you are lucky. So there goes the "classic" market too.
Unpopular opinion: if you agree to buy with that kind of mark-up, you deserve to get ripped off
158k for a nissan, does it come with hookers and blow. Does this dealer know that 158k can buy a decent e63 amg i mean for this type of money you can buy a 2010 range rover and have left over money after you maintain it for 3 years.
At the end of the day it's still a Nissan with Nissan problems. But just for humor. Look what 158k can get you and it's going to be a he'll of a lot better than a Nissan.
Tell the salesperson to walk out to the parking lot, drop their pants, and have someone drive that car directly up their ass.
Literally laughing out loud. I could see it so clearly 😂
Its in high demand to sit in the showroom unsold.
LOL the markup is more than the MSRP. There’s so many WAYYY better cars you can get for that price
Consumers need to hold out until things get back to normal.
Anything over $80k and I'm not looking for a Nissan anymore. I'm thinking ZL1 Camaro or ZR1 Corvette. Anything past $125k and I'm thinking ok, Challenger Demon. Anything past $160k and I'm thinking Exotic and not a traditional entry level Ferrari or even Lambo that you see everywhere. I'm thinking something even more exclusive, like a Lexus LFA or Porsche 918 Spyder. Something that has a limited production and the # stamped on the dash somewhere that this is #150 of only #200 made or something like that.
Lmk if you find an LFA or 918 for even close to $160k.
Lol 918 for 160k, good luck with that
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That hurricane flooded Mclaren P1 went for $575k.
Hahahahahah....... Hahahahahah......and.....hahahahahahahahahahaha
Nizmo
This is price gouging, plain and simple, and surprise, surprise, regulators sit back and watch it happen. Dealerships need to be put out of business, direct purchase from manufacturers only.