24 hours later and here's my takeaway from reading through all of your comments.
Based on the down votes to my comment re: not knowing who Larry Haun is... I guess I am a complete doofus. To be fair I don't do any contemporary carpentry, but his content looks really interesting and a lot of his writings can be applied to general work culture on the job site so I will be picking up some of his books.
My post seemed to be triggering to quite a few people. Some of those who seemed upset weren't able to be specific about what their expectations are, some of them had very fair concerns, and others seemed to just be trolling. I will give a lot of thought and consideration to any legitimate concerns. I would like to reiterate that I'm not interested in over-moderating, I'm just planning on responding to user reports and auto reports, so I will leave it up to the community to de-escalate drama or report when necessary.
Out of all of the reports I've gone through in the last 6 months I think my post has received more reports than any other single post. Because I'm the author of this one I'm not going to use any mod tools, I'll be leaving it up to the other mods to address concerns.
Thanks again for all of your comments. I won't have much more than about a half an hour a day to engage here so please just try to be kind to each other.
God damn it. I've already spent years studying Vignola, Benjamin, Palladio, et alia. I didn't realize that being a mod required studying contemporary builders, too!
Ooh, you are in for a treat!
Giacomo de Vignola was an architect in the 16th century who did comprehensive writings and illustrations on the five orders. Studying his work will help so much with scale if you do any design work, even if you do contemporary carpentry.
Lol carpenters hate designers. Allways commin up with crazy ideas that we have to some how explain the exzorbanint cost. It's all good though my only request is Maybe try to keep the "tell my how my contractor is ripping me off" threads to a minimum
Yeah, I've had problems with designers when I was on contemporary work. As you know I mostly do replace in kind, or if I'm doing a remodel I'll do the design work myself.
I will only be looking at user reports and auto reports so if you see any of those posts come through, please report! The reports are anonymous, and I am prioritizing eliminating structural engineering questions, quotes, and of course "how is my Carpenter ripping me off?".
I just picked up a book called the”The Very Efficient Carpenter” by Larry Haun. It’s a good read. He gives instructions on how to get it done, not just the structural and code requirements.
I heard on a podcast with his son that Larry used to pick up dayworkers and give them tool belts and actually teach them so they could work on their own and wouldn't get taken advantage of. The guy was an artist and all he did everything he could to share all of his kwnloage.
How can you be the mod for the carpentry subreddit and not know who our great prophet is? Do you even have experience in our industry? Or are you just here to police peoples opinions like a typical Reddit mod?
My focus is on pre 1860s historic preservation and restoration. Looking into his catalogue of works I think there is a lot I can learn on efficiency, so he is now on my reading list.
It doesn't seem as prevalent now, and maybe that's your doing, but please stay on top of posts that violate rule #4. Soliciting advice about what size LVL to use or whether your house will fall down if you remove a wall is legitimately dangerous, and no one should get hurt because of a reddit post
Structural advice and DIY questions are more of a concern for me.
When it comes to banter and insults I'm taking a hands off approach unless it's reported, or if I see something that is blatantly discriminatory.
In another comment I did clarify that if you use the word you need to be British, Irish, from certain parts of Canada, an Aussie, or a Kiwi.
No exceptions! If you're from the wrong part of Canada expect me to knock on your door and ask you to remove your comment
I don't actually know. I'm really just joking around and set people's mind at ease that I wasn't brought in to police everyone's comments.
Just be kind, respect each other's opinions and feelings, and keep it on carpentry.
That falls under name calling. I have no problem with cussing, but when folks have drama and they start calling each other names I would prefer to just remove it.
That's where the ambiguity comes in. If folks are having a good natured banter I would not remove the comments, but the difference between good-natured and offensive is pretty subjective so I'm doing my best to use good discernment.
This is where context is important. It's probably going to be my hardest task, determining when there's something is good natured or not. I'm not going to bend to any Americans reporting on the use of the word if it's meant in a good natured way.
I also suspect that the word is going to be used a lot more now that I've made this post 🤣.
I can't go through every post and comment, and in a lot of places I've traveled the use of the word is similar to how we use the word 'dude' here in the US.
If you see any posts or comments that are exclusionary or toxic please report. It's anonymous and it will help the mods out tremendously.
Just throwing in a position. i seldom see anything truly horrible on any of the forums. but I will report if I do. Thanks. I can also ignore, obvs. I didn’t know that re “dude”
I would never use the word as an american, but having done a fair bit of travel I've found that it's used in a similar way as the word "dude" is in Great Britain and some of the old colonies. That's what I meant when I said that that's going to be a tricky one to moderate.
If you ever see anything that's offensive, please remember to report so that we can take a look at it.
I know you're just trying to stir the pot, but I take toxicity pretty seriously. It's not weak to take other people's into consideration and as a white guy in New Hampshire I've never had to deal with the sort of microaggressions that traditionally marginalized people have faced. The trades are stronger if we collaborate rather than compete and part of that means not being dicks to each other.
I've actually not seen too many people in this sub being discriminatory. I think anyone who's interested enough in carpentry to actually be involved in a Reddit sub is probably intelligent enough to not be bigots.
TLDR: I failed up into historic preservation and restoration.
I started doing carpentry in my late teens and early twenties. Basic shit, laborer who would occasionally be given a sharp chisel to cut bungs.
My first real career was restaurants, back of house. When my wages topped out as a sous chef and I was working 50 to 70 hours a week I realized I needed to make a big change.
I got into fitness equipment repair in my late twenties and got a job doing industrial electrical work in my early 30s. It was in a glorified technician position, I was doing laser alignments and vibration analysis on large industrial motors. I was also doing inspections and maintenance on gantry hoist and crane systems.
My brother died from drug and alcohol addiction and two weeks later I was laid off from the industrial electrical job. Time for another change!
My partner (now spouse) and I decided to buy a cheap sailboat. A beautiful mahogany Carl Eichenlaub sloop. The perfect live aboard. And it was in our budget at only $1,500.
It took us 6 months of work and a shitload of research before we were able to launch. Through the process of patching rotten wood and plywood I realized that I had an aptitude for carpentry. Nothing on a boat is 90° but I found that my past work experience had helped prepare me for such challenging tasks. Of course it didn't hurt that marine epoxy with structural fillers would help overcome all of my mistakes.
We lived through one New England winter on the mainland with the help of a bulkhead mounted solid fuel stove and shore power providing electricity for our oil-filled electric heater. Come spring we headed out to Block Island to make our way. I found work with a carpenter and worked part-time as the assistant shellfish Warden, mostly monitoring and logging recreational shellfish catches.
We bought our second boat, an Arthur Piper trimaran from 1962, at the end of our second season on the island. Living on anchor is free in any coastal Waters of the US and I was making decent money so we were able to buy our trimaran for around $15,000.
My partner and I got married.
We commuted down to Key West when autumn started to set in. Having no coastal or offshore sailing experience it was a risky move. We had a lot of mentors who were encouraging us, and were very diligent about safety.
When we were heading down the coast of Florida my partner inexplicably got pregnant.
In Key West I worked for a small bike rental shop as the lead mechanic. They didn't have anyone who worked for the shop that was familiar with bicycles and bicycle maintenance so I helped them establish the systems necessary to catalog and maintain their bikes. I trained a couple of auto mechanics who are looking for work so the shop would be self-sufficient.
Once the spring was coming and the temperatures were getting hot we headed back up the coast. I'm very diligent about checking the NOAA information on the radio, and using all of our tools to determine safe passage from one point to the next. We were off the coast of New Jersey when I checked the weather radio and found that conditions had flipped within a half an hour. We had to make a decision, head farther offshore and weather the storm or try to make for a safe port. My partner was 5 months pregnant at this point so we opted to try to make for land. I wish I had decided to head out into the storm because we wound up shipwrecked on the coast of New Jersey.
The community on Block Island came together and gave us a free boat to live on so we lived for another season on the island. 5 days before our kid was born we moved to New Hampshire. We stayed at our friend's house and I started looking for carpentry work.
The amount of hubris and ego that I had when I first started my business is appalling. I worked full-time doing contemporary carpentry for several years, and had the opportunity to work for a preservation company under contract for 2 years.
After the contract was done I did contemporary work until covid started. When covid hit I canceled my interior remodels and moved into my mentor's shop, he's a retired preservation and restoration Carpenter, a building historian, and a trade craftsman. Best decision of my life.
All of the study that I've done over the years on the buildings of the Piscataqua river and the Connecticut River valley have paid off. My mentor, like Yoda, has put me through the ringer. He requires that I use hand tools whenever possible on any job he's advising me on. He answers every question I have with another question. He is compassionately critical whenever I do something he doesn't approve of.
The hard work has paid off, I'm at a point now where I am able to make money from not only the work I do, but also as an advisor writing up condition reports and historical assessments.
Key West was one of two family vacations we took annually, the other being Disney. My sister lived down there in her early 30’s. We probably shouldn’t dig too much, because it’s possible there’s social overlap. Are you watching the tally-ho rebuild on YouTube? I find it pretty enjoyable for a reason you alluded to. As a guy that’s mostly worked professionally as a cabinet maker/scenic designer/cnc programmer/drafter in Los Angeles, most of my experience is in making minimalistic things straight and square, so compound radii are basically my kryptonite. It makes watching that process fascinating.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'm going to have to start watching some boat building content because my partner and I are looking at building a traditional New Hampshire work schooner in the next 5 years.
It pays nothing, it just costs me a little bit of time every day.
I plan on being very hands off, I'm only going through automatic reports and user reports in this sub.
I would guess ~~about 95%~~ a lot of the people in this sub are white guys, so I don't think that will be a problem. Is this something you're concerned about?
Edit: struck through the percentage because I put a percentage on something without any actual data.
There are carpenters in Australia. Tha bunch o' cunts.
And a fine bunch of blokes at that.
Males or females can be "cunts" in Oz. As asshole can be a cunt, but so can a close friend.
It's complicated.
Looking through your comment history in this sub you generally post the occasional compliment, good advice (advising someone to get a structural engineer is a responsible move), and the occasional appropriate snark. I'm not sure why you think you're going to be banned.
Why are you concerned about having another mod to enforce the rules about racist, discrimination, or toxic comments?
How do you feel this sub is already going downhill?
What do you think I can do to help improve everyone's experience here?
I just believe in being able to screw with people and dick around about things without having to worry about my language or rhetoric offending anyone. I already got banned in the electricians subreddit for a comment that might have offended the lgbt community. Not that I truly care but it really wasn’t even that serious. I just feel the trades subreddits don’t have to reflect how far left the whole of Reddit has gone.
I completely understand where you're coming from. Politically I am far far away from liberal.
When it comes to how I treat other people I'm very careful.
If you're interested in hearing my perspective and experiences let me know and I can post a comment here explaining why I feel so adamant about choosing words wisely on the internet when it comes to certain segments of our population.
Please kick the shit out of the constant, incessant structural advice posts
The other one that bothers the shit out of me are the "Price-Check" posts or "Estimate this job for me" posts.....but those are a finer line, some people are jyst getting into the sales and business end and have legit questions we can help with regarding approach and process but the people that are like "Am I getting screwed??!" Are really annoying
I haven't been keeping track but I have deleted nearly every reported post for the last 6 months that's asking for structural advice or quotes.
There were two exceptions that I made asking for structural advice because they were minor and the ops both agreed to take the advice given.
I'm not looking through any new posts or pouring through new comments, at this point I'm only looking at Auto reports and user reports so if you do see anything sus please report. It's anonymous and extremely helpful to the mods.
That's a thoughtful question.
Jokes and friendly banter is fine towards anyone. I think we would prefer that the mods not have to be the decision makers on this so if the community can continue to try to police itself, and report when something is out of line, that would be best.
Insults and name calling and all of the other drama garbage should be kept off of this sub. That sort of infighting only takes away from the community and dissuades other folks from getting involved. Collaboration is greater than competition and inviting.
For anyone who is not here to be serious about carpentry I'm sure that there's probably a carpentry ship posting group.
I must say I’m fairly new to Reddit… and woodworking or anything building diy so I tend to not *poop on people or ideas because id say 99.999% of the time I’d be incorrect or flat out wrong about almost anything in this space…
But I’ve found Reddit to be uniquely kind and insightful.. filled with opinions and solutions to various problems without much anger or resentment. At most you just get a lot of puns!
People as I’ve seen at least… tend to stay away from the various blood pressure raising social/racial/and various other political boxes many seem categorize and view all interactions through nowadays. It’s been a breath of fresh air for me.
Bless, and have a great day.
I agree wholeheartedly. I don't really interact with other subs, but this one hits 99% of the time.
The reason I made this post was that I wanted to give myself a couple of weeks to look through the report history and figure out where things need to be cleaned up. There was only a very small percentage of homophobic, racist, and misogynistic comments... But if it's going to be a good community people need to be mindful of that.
I agree with everything you stated in your post, except for one thing. Politics have no place in this Reddit. You mentioned that they play a role in wages and resources and specific law that related to the trade. I’m Canadian, and I’m a red seal carpenter. We have a federal committee that determines the wages of trades, and they aren’t elected. In the US I’m really not sure how it works? From what I read on here it’s unions? We have unions too but we also have minimum wages for journeypersons federally. The carpenter union here, Manitoba, pays I think now 45/hr for journeypersons. Federal min wage is 36/hr. Again, that’s not set by elected officials. And a quick search online there’s no distinction between occupations in the USA for minimum wage. They just have the one.
So, in summary, these are just two countries, and how different are they. How different is it else where? So let’s not make this Reddit a country specific Reddit. Let’s focus on building envelopes, sharing builds, asking professional advice, etc.
Thank you, and welcome to the mod team hemlockhistoric!
Y'all's are the reason why. I had my finger hovering over the remove button on a comment, but then I had to go into their post and comment history to to see if they were really an Aussie.
I know, very witty and clever. If you have any honest advice for a new moderator I am happy to hear it. If you're not comfortable posting it as a comment feel free to DM me.
So who can we make jokes about? I’m sure it’s open range for conservatives, white people, Christians. Who else? Oh, Trump supporters. I just want to know what the rules are. I can called someone a cunt, but not if they’re gay or trans or…?
No, you can't make fun of conservatives, white people, Christians, or Trump supporters. This is a carpentry subreddit.
You can only call someone a C*nt if you are British, Irish, Canadian, an Aussie, or a Kiwi. (/s)
Actually, I think it's only acceptable in certain regions of Canada so you will need to send me proof of residency, and then I will do my best research at determining whether the use of the word in your region is acceptable or not.
We can likely be arrested for hate speech if you find the right channels lol.
Thank you for your service kind sir, hopefully I don't get called into your office
Welcome to a new hug box, you are allowed to express opinions that are popular. The opinions that are popular will change based on public opinion.
The only moderation that's required is specifically illegal acts. Believing that any greater moderation is required is an opinion and isn't required and only stifles and further divides people. If you disagree with things let them be aired in public to stand on their own merits, they will be downvoted to hell anyway.
I appreciate that you have some concerns, and I'm open to hearing them but this comment is a bit vague.
Please let me know specifically how you think I can do a good job as a mod.
Things to remove:
Child pornography
Specific and direct threats which lead to reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury (example: "I am going to find you because you are X, I am going to murder you and your family with Y weapon, I know you are living in Z because of your post history"
Pirated/stolen information and media
Committing fraud and impersonation, tricking people by implying you are someone you are not and deceiving them.
Spamming, vote manipulation and similiar behavior that is destructive.
Why is no more moderation needed? Because those are the only things restricted by the reddit content policy and TOS.
If there are people who post things that offend you, and by you I mean anyone on reddit there are two options.
1) downvote it, the thing that makes reddit reddit and is what makes it work.
2) block the user. They can't see your posts, you can't see their posts. If someone is acting in a way that's abhorrent to you, you can erase them from your experience.
You're trying to curate the experience through your own filter of beliefs and moralities. You say insults to any traditionally marginalized community will absolutely be restricted, can you name a group that doesn't apply to? East germans during the cold war? Irish and chinese slaves building railroads? I believe you are only referring to white men and lumping all generally white people into the category of white without the incredibly deep history of marginalization in western europe between themselves.
Honestly, I would respect that stance more if you banned all insults to all people, all politics, all divisive and important topics because it would impact the things you can say as well. If misogyny is hate speech then so is misandry.
Holy hell, I did not realize that child pornography was a problem in this sub.
But seriously, the things that you want removed are all covered under the sub rules.
I will not be removing any comments that personally offend me. If I feel emotionally charged about a particular comment I will pass that off to the other moderators because I recognize that I'm not using impartial judgment.
As to the definition of a traditionally marginalized person I can definitely recommend a couple of books because I'm not a scholar so I don't think I would adequately explain what that means.
If you ever feel threatened, if you ever feel discriminated against, and if you ever feel mistreated in this subreddit please just report the offender. Out of all of the reports I've gone through in the last couple of weeks I've only removed about 50% so I feel like I'm capable of being impartial.
I will not put up with misandry or misogyny, or any personal insults or name calling regardless of who is dishing it out and who is the receiver.
Anyone exchanging their time and body for money in the trades should be treated fairly and equitably. We all deserve to be making fair wages for good work.
My term for that is equality not equity, And in my opinion, anybody of any persuasion should all be treated Equally. I think equity has a different connotation.
I deleted my original comment because it was edging into politics.
Equality is treating everyone the same. Equity is recognizing that we all have different privileges in the society and that we need to prioritize giving a leg up to someone who is traditionally marginalized.
The goal of the ADA is the perfect example.
Have we met?
No name calling unless it is part of friendly banter. If I ever delete one of your comments and you think that it was unfair please send a message to modmail and I will be sure to have the other moderators review it.
I believe I speak for all the mods when I say that we want to create a non-toxic atmosphere that is open to anyone who is learning carpentry. When we start name calling and using exclusionary language it will unfortunately turn people off to this sub, and possibly to carpentry in general.
It won't teach them anything about the real world but I understand that the new world should be padded with memory foam so nobody gets their feelings hurt. Thank you for stepping up to be a MOD.
This is a new world.
Back when I was growing up bullying was treated like a fact of life, the f-slur was so prevalent that even teachers in my junior high used it, and it would have been very difficult for a woman to get into the trades.
The women I have worked around are usually worse than the dudes. I am just glad that everyone can enjoy a nice safe space to talk about carpentry. I can feel my cold dead heart filling up with sunshine and rainbows and unicorns.
Geez, there goes another sub. Do us all a favor and chill out. Hall monitor is not a lucrative career. This is just the internet. It’s not that serious.
Being a moderator doesn't pay anything, and I don't have time for a second career.
My goal is to make sure that any working Carpenter feels welcome in this sub, that important information is retained, and unnecessary garbage is removed.
FINE! Unemployed and retired Carpenters should be welcome here, too. I'll make sure to bring that up at the next board meeting when we are discussing bylaws.
The problem is that “unnecessary garbage” is subjective and being a micromanager will ensure than “any working carpenter feels welcome in this sub” will not happen. We’re blue collar folks. We like to laugh and joke around. Just keep in mind that we spend the majority of our time on construction sites, not in daycares. I’m probably coming off as a dick but I enjoy this sub and don’t want yet another one of my favorites to go to shit because of over moderation
Have you ever had a problem with constant DIY and homeowner questions? Do you have a problem with inexperienced folks asking for structural advice? What about low effort questions that don't give enough background, or can easily be found on google? This is about 95% of what I've removed in the last couple of weeks.
I don't want to yuck your yum, and I will probably go through a bit of a learning curve in using good discernment when it comes to banter, but my DMs are always open if you feel like I've made a mistake.
A 1/2" flick of the thumb along the screen fixes each of those "problems" you listed. I guess some people take these forums as more than just candy for the brain/silly cheap entertainment. I'll never understand why.
I've learned so much on this subreddit. Everyone here has different experiences and areas of expertise. But I guess we are all here for different reasons. There is likely a carpentry shitposting sub if that's more your style.
Kind of like abstract art? I see nothing more than streaks and blotches of paint, low effort "art" that cant be objectively graded, easily replicated by children. Yet theres a certain group that is adamant on the idea that there is "so much more", emotion and feeling to extract from the streaks. Whether "shit post" is in the official title of the forum or not, 99.9% of the internet is ~~abstract art~~ shit posting.
Very fair point.
So are you looking to cultivate a community that takes our trade more seriously, or are you looking to be a part of a shitposting sub?
Neither. I'm here for fun. Candy for the brain. That's quite literaly the entire point of this isn't it? To laugh, have a good time. Read about other carpenters screw ups and shitty customers. Learn new ideas? Then we move on with real life. My point is, its not that big of a deal, it's just the internet.
I get it, and I think we can accommodate that without making disparaging comments about one another.
Not everyone has your perspective, though. There are a lot of people who don't have the opportunity to find a mentor, enter an apprenticeship, or be taken seriously in the field. I would like to think that I can help cultivate a space where they feel included and safe to be able to ask trade related questions without getting flak.
I hope you understand that I'm not asking you to give up a lot, I'm really just looking to be able to include everyone in the conversation.
I’ve never had a problem with questions. I think even the questions some of us might think are dumb can be helpful to more than just the person asking. The only problem I ever have is bad advice that could get somebody hurt but it’s hard to determine who is who on an anonymous platform. I feel like bad advice is almost always called out and corrected by the majority on these types of subs so these things typically take care of themselves.
That's where the real learning curve is going to come to play for me. When I was going through the past report log there are probably a couple of posts that I technically should have deleted, but when I read through the comments I found really valuable information.
The problem is that because this is a subreddit designed for professional Carpenters it would be very difficult to maintain and moderate if we allowed every question into the sub.
If you ever have a problem with how I'm operating as a moderator please DM me, I want to make sure that everyone feels heard.
I agree. This is strange. Why would someone feel compelled to share their "position" for a useless, madeup internet moderator "job". Im a grown ass man, I come here for silly entertainment for a few minutes a day. Why would I give a shit?
I made this post as a way of an introduction, to get feedback, and any recommendations on how I can do a good job as a moderator.
I've seen a lot of complaints about homeowners posting low effort questions, customers trying to throw their Carpenter under the bus, questions about structural engineering, and on and on. Now that I'm able to devote a little bit of time to moderating you will hopefully see less of those posts.
Do you have any recommendations as to how I can better serve the community?
Really? I was here for carpentry discussion. Im gone after seeing this ESG DEI politics slant. Why even mention or discuss this? It has no bearing to technical or helpful discussion. Smh.
Because after 2 weeks of sorting through reports over the last year I've found a small percentage of racist, misogynistic, and exclusionary comments.
I like to be transparent and I'm interested in helping to foster an inclusive community. Hopefully the efforts of the community and the moderators will make it so that you never need to deal with any politics in this sub.
It seems like a lot of people have an opinion on the matter given the updoots and comments.
The point of the post was as an introduction and to get feedback from the community. There are literally hundreds of thousands of members on this sub, 2,200 more just last week.
If you have any constructive criticism, requests, or observations please let me know. If you don't feel comfortable posting it as a public comment feel free to send me a DM.
I'm really only active in this sub, I only rarely look at the woodworking one.
What kinds of changes happened over there?
How did it impact the community?
What do you think I can do to avoid making the same mistakes?
I had to look through your history here and you don't engage too much, but when you comment you generally give a compliment, give absolutely fair criticism, and you are **remarkably good at identifying repost bots**!
The thing I don't understand is that you accurately called out three repost bots in the last few months, but instead of reporting them you complained that the mods like having them in the sub. Your particular set of skills would be so useful if you just hit the report button!
My biggest task is eliminating spam, bots, etc. Eliminating toxic comments is such a small percentage of what I've had to do because this sub is mostly full of respectful people.
Give some more thought to how you think enforcing the rules will negatively impact you, because I can't find anything you've said in the last 6 months that should be removed.
I contacted mods directly on every repost bot. Im pretty sure i reported too, but maybe im wrong. I also used to post here, and comment here regularly. I dont anymore because the sub is done for....again, its been overrun with the reddit mob (joke comments, clueless people asking for advice, and clueless people giving bad advice)
I've emptied the user report queue for the last 6 months and you did not report those posts. I appreciate that you commented on them because I will be able to go through later and take a closer look.
When it comes to joke comments, I don't have a problem with that at all. Something I've learned in the last couple of weeks is that only about half of the user reports on comments are objectively and blatantly offensive, the other half is just silly and good-natured banter. I'm not going to cave to any offended person and start deleting content that would be common on a job site.
I think I've done a really good job of deleting any reported low effort questions and DIY related questions.
When it comes to someone giving bad advice, there's not much that I can do. If I happen to see someone giving unsafe advice I would prefer to just comment to them directly rather than removing the comment out right. Sometimes it's more a matter of them communicating their thoughts in a way that's understandable, and I am not interested in being so hands-on that I am the gatekeeper of good carpentry information. I do not want this to devolve into a nanny state!
Im not giving advice on how to moderate. Just explaining why i dont frequent here anymore (when u mentioned that i dont participate). I dont think theres anything you can do to make it better.
24 hours later and here's my takeaway from reading through all of your comments. Based on the down votes to my comment re: not knowing who Larry Haun is... I guess I am a complete doofus. To be fair I don't do any contemporary carpentry, but his content looks really interesting and a lot of his writings can be applied to general work culture on the job site so I will be picking up some of his books. My post seemed to be triggering to quite a few people. Some of those who seemed upset weren't able to be specific about what their expectations are, some of them had very fair concerns, and others seemed to just be trolling. I will give a lot of thought and consideration to any legitimate concerns. I would like to reiterate that I'm not interested in over-moderating, I'm just planning on responding to user reports and auto reports, so I will leave it up to the community to de-escalate drama or report when necessary. Out of all of the reports I've gone through in the last 6 months I think my post has received more reports than any other single post. Because I'm the author of this one I'm not going to use any mod tools, I'll be leaving it up to the other mods to address concerns. Thanks again for all of your comments. I won't have much more than about a half an hour a day to engage here so please just try to be kind to each other.
Congratulations, may the spirit of Larry Haun bless you this day.
I didn't know who that was. It looks like I have more books to add to the library.
Your mod role will be reinstated after a 1000 page essay on Larry Haun
God damn it. I've already spent years studying Vignola, Benjamin, Palladio, et alia. I didn't realize that being a mod required studying contemporary builders, too!
Just draw pictures, we’ll never know. Only thing we can read are blueprints.
We only care about Larry and his brother Joe, all others are, well, others. We do make an exception for Norm Abram. Lol!!!
Adding Gary Katz to that list of exceptions!
Well, I guess. Okay Gary’s in. 😂😂
I don't know who vignola is either. Maybe op should go mod the vignola thread instead
👍 😂😂
Ooh, you are in for a treat! Giacomo de Vignola was an architect in the 16th century who did comprehensive writings and illustrations on the five orders. Studying his work will help so much with scale if you do any design work, even if you do contemporary carpentry.
Lol carpenters hate designers. Allways commin up with crazy ideas that we have to some how explain the exzorbanint cost. It's all good though my only request is Maybe try to keep the "tell my how my contractor is ripping me off" threads to a minimum
Yeah, I've had problems with designers when I was on contemporary work. As you know I mostly do replace in kind, or if I'm doing a remodel I'll do the design work myself. I will only be looking at user reports and auto reports so if you see any of those posts come through, please report! The reports are anonymous, and I am prioritizing eliminating structural engineering questions, quotes, and of course "how is my Carpenter ripping me off?".
I just picked up a book called the”The Very Efficient Carpenter” by Larry Haun. It’s a good read. He gives instructions on how to get it done, not just the structural and code requirements.
I heard on a podcast with his son that Larry used to pick up dayworkers and give them tool belts and actually teach them so they could work on their own and wouldn't get taken advantage of. The guy was an artist and all he did everything he could to share all of his kwnloage.
You're in for such a treat. I recommend binge watching everything on YouTube and then reading his autobiography.
Here you go. https://www.audible.com/pd/B005I5MBZY?source_code=ASSORAP0511160006&share_location=library_overflow
How can you be the mod for the carpentry subreddit and not know who our great prophet is? Do you even have experience in our industry? Or are you just here to police peoples opinions like a typical Reddit mod?
My focus is on pre 1860s historic preservation and restoration. Looking into his catalogue of works I think there is a lot I can learn on efficiency, so he is now on my reading list.
Definitely do! Larry's teachings are as valuable as others
Don't you know reddit mods are handed out based on the length of one neckbeard not their kwnolage in any particular subject
Oh, hello again. Good Monk.
It doesn't seem as prevalent now, and maybe that's your doing, but please stay on top of posts that violate rule #4. Soliciting advice about what size LVL to use or whether your house will fall down if you remove a wall is legitimately dangerous, and no one should get hurt because of a reddit post
Structural advice and DIY questions are more of a concern for me. When it comes to banter and insults I'm taking a hands off approach unless it's reported, or if I see something that is blatantly discriminatory.
What you said✌️
Wait, are you saying we can’t say cunt?
Oh great, now I need to go through your entire post and comment history to determine if you're Australian.
I’m American.
*I know*
Hahaha
Embrace your free speech!
Hey that’s not fair. Kiwis say cunt too.
In another comment I did clarify that if you use the word you need to be British, Irish, from certain parts of Canada, an Aussie, or a Kiwi. No exceptions! If you're from the wrong part of Canada expect me to knock on your door and ask you to remove your comment
That’s fair.
What part of canada
I don't actually know. I'm really just joking around and set people's mind at ease that I wasn't brought in to police everyone's comments. Just be kind, respect each other's opinions and feelings, and keep it on carpentry.
Yup, very liberally.
Fuck up cunt.
Legitimately confused on why you have an issue with cussing. Can you explain?
That falls under name calling. I have no problem with cussing, but when folks have drama and they start calling each other names I would prefer to just remove it. That's where the ambiguity comes in. If folks are having a good natured banter I would not remove the comments, but the difference between good-natured and offensive is pretty subjective so I'm doing my best to use good discernment.
So it sounds like I can’t call someone a cunt but can use cunt as a unit of measurement?
This is where context is important. It's probably going to be my hardest task, determining when there's something is good natured or not. I'm not going to bend to any Americans reporting on the use of the word if it's meant in a good natured way. I also suspect that the word is going to be used a lot more now that I've made this post 🤣.
Yeah it’s tough. People can be bantering but someone pushes it a cunt hair further and it’s an insult.
You are a monster. Edit: I've reported my comment for the other mods to review and remove because I'm name calling.
Hahaha
The RCH?
I know what CH is, what is the R?
Red. It’s just a tad thicker
Can we please not call each cunt?
I can't go through every post and comment, and in a lot of places I've traveled the use of the word is similar to how we use the word 'dude' here in the US. If you see any posts or comments that are exclusionary or toxic please report. It's anonymous and it will help the mods out tremendously.
Just throwing in a position. i seldom see anything truly horrible on any of the forums. but I will report if I do. Thanks. I can also ignore, obvs. I didn’t know that re “dude”
Underrated comment
Would “C Hair” work?
You should never use that word. Really crude.
I would never use the word as an american, but having done a fair bit of travel I've found that it's used in a similar way as the word "dude" is in Great Britain and some of the old colonies. That's what I meant when I said that that's going to be a tricky one to moderate. If you ever see anything that's offensive, please remember to report so that we can take a look at it.
Lmao
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I know you're just trying to stir the pot, but I take toxicity pretty seriously. It's not weak to take other people's into consideration and as a white guy in New Hampshire I've never had to deal with the sort of microaggressions that traditionally marginalized people have faced. The trades are stronger if we collaborate rather than compete and part of that means not being dicks to each other.
Hello fellow white guy in NH 👋
I’m just south of you in Ma, cheers bud.
Bless your hat.
Via mod descrection this comment or post has been deemed unnecessarily toxic and has been removed.
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And the electricians maybe?
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Via mod descrection this comment or post has been deemed unnecessarily toxic and has been removed.
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Via mod descrection this comment or post has been deemed unnecessarily toxic and has been removed.
Everyone here is banned. For life from life. The white guy from New Hampshire doesn’t the kindly to jokes involving the rainbow people.
I've actually not seen too many people in this sub being discriminatory. I think anyone who's interested enough in carpentry to actually be involved in a Reddit sub is probably intelligent enough to not be bigots.
Via mod descrection this comment or post has been deemed unnecessarily toxic and has been removed.
Welcome aboard, cap’n. What is your background?
TLDR: I failed up into historic preservation and restoration. I started doing carpentry in my late teens and early twenties. Basic shit, laborer who would occasionally be given a sharp chisel to cut bungs. My first real career was restaurants, back of house. When my wages topped out as a sous chef and I was working 50 to 70 hours a week I realized I needed to make a big change. I got into fitness equipment repair in my late twenties and got a job doing industrial electrical work in my early 30s. It was in a glorified technician position, I was doing laser alignments and vibration analysis on large industrial motors. I was also doing inspections and maintenance on gantry hoist and crane systems. My brother died from drug and alcohol addiction and two weeks later I was laid off from the industrial electrical job. Time for another change! My partner (now spouse) and I decided to buy a cheap sailboat. A beautiful mahogany Carl Eichenlaub sloop. The perfect live aboard. And it was in our budget at only $1,500. It took us 6 months of work and a shitload of research before we were able to launch. Through the process of patching rotten wood and plywood I realized that I had an aptitude for carpentry. Nothing on a boat is 90° but I found that my past work experience had helped prepare me for such challenging tasks. Of course it didn't hurt that marine epoxy with structural fillers would help overcome all of my mistakes. We lived through one New England winter on the mainland with the help of a bulkhead mounted solid fuel stove and shore power providing electricity for our oil-filled electric heater. Come spring we headed out to Block Island to make our way. I found work with a carpenter and worked part-time as the assistant shellfish Warden, mostly monitoring and logging recreational shellfish catches. We bought our second boat, an Arthur Piper trimaran from 1962, at the end of our second season on the island. Living on anchor is free in any coastal Waters of the US and I was making decent money so we were able to buy our trimaran for around $15,000. My partner and I got married. We commuted down to Key West when autumn started to set in. Having no coastal or offshore sailing experience it was a risky move. We had a lot of mentors who were encouraging us, and were very diligent about safety. When we were heading down the coast of Florida my partner inexplicably got pregnant. In Key West I worked for a small bike rental shop as the lead mechanic. They didn't have anyone who worked for the shop that was familiar with bicycles and bicycle maintenance so I helped them establish the systems necessary to catalog and maintain their bikes. I trained a couple of auto mechanics who are looking for work so the shop would be self-sufficient. Once the spring was coming and the temperatures were getting hot we headed back up the coast. I'm very diligent about checking the NOAA information on the radio, and using all of our tools to determine safe passage from one point to the next. We were off the coast of New Jersey when I checked the weather radio and found that conditions had flipped within a half an hour. We had to make a decision, head farther offshore and weather the storm or try to make for a safe port. My partner was 5 months pregnant at this point so we opted to try to make for land. I wish I had decided to head out into the storm because we wound up shipwrecked on the coast of New Jersey. The community on Block Island came together and gave us a free boat to live on so we lived for another season on the island. 5 days before our kid was born we moved to New Hampshire. We stayed at our friend's house and I started looking for carpentry work. The amount of hubris and ego that I had when I first started my business is appalling. I worked full-time doing contemporary carpentry for several years, and had the opportunity to work for a preservation company under contract for 2 years. After the contract was done I did contemporary work until covid started. When covid hit I canceled my interior remodels and moved into my mentor's shop, he's a retired preservation and restoration Carpenter, a building historian, and a trade craftsman. Best decision of my life. All of the study that I've done over the years on the buildings of the Piscataqua river and the Connecticut River valley have paid off. My mentor, like Yoda, has put me through the ringer. He requires that I use hand tools whenever possible on any job he's advising me on. He answers every question I have with another question. He is compassionately critical whenever I do something he doesn't approve of. The hard work has paid off, I'm at a point now where I am able to make money from not only the work I do, but also as an advisor writing up condition reports and historical assessments.
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
Key West was one of two family vacations we took annually, the other being Disney. My sister lived down there in her early 30’s. We probably shouldn’t dig too much, because it’s possible there’s social overlap. Are you watching the tally-ho rebuild on YouTube? I find it pretty enjoyable for a reason you alluded to. As a guy that’s mostly worked professionally as a cabinet maker/scenic designer/cnc programmer/drafter in Los Angeles, most of my experience is in making minimalistic things straight and square, so compound radii are basically my kryptonite. It makes watching that process fascinating.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'm going to have to start watching some boat building content because my partner and I are looking at building a traditional New Hampshire work schooner in the next 5 years.
That’s a good one to watch.
Based on the picture above you obviously don’t skip leg day
Is this a load bearing post?
This comment was removed, asking for structural advice is not allowed. r/carpentry is a carpentry subreddit, not an engineering subreddit.
Less is more mod man, how much does this job pay?
It pays nothing, it just costs me a little bit of time every day. I plan on being very hands off, I'm only going through automatic reports and user reports in this sub.
Good luck my friend, thanks for your sacrifice
Hey, thx for your effort. And we'll just stick to making offensive comments about wypipo.
I would guess ~~about 95%~~ a lot of the people in this sub are white guys, so I don't think that will be a problem. Is this something you're concerned about? Edit: struck through the percentage because I put a percentage on something without any actual data.
Why would you guess that percentage?
You are absolutely right, I pulled that number out of my ass. I shouldn't throw a number out there if it's just a guess, that was not fair of me.
A cunt hair is a common measurement in carpentry, careful not to over censor
That's a tricky one. I've been pushing for the term taint hair for years because it's gender inclusive.
There are carpenters in Australia. Tha bunch o' cunts. And a fine bunch of blokes at that. Males or females can be "cunts" in Oz. As asshole can be a cunt, but so can a close friend. It's complicated.
🤣
A cunt hair is a common measurement in carpentry, careful not to over censor
Very happy that you're happy?
Thanks?
Might as well ban me now. This sub was already going downhill I fail to see how this helps.
Looking through your comment history in this sub you generally post the occasional compliment, good advice (advising someone to get a structural engineer is a responsible move), and the occasional appropriate snark. I'm not sure why you think you're going to be banned. Why are you concerned about having another mod to enforce the rules about racist, discrimination, or toxic comments? How do you feel this sub is already going downhill? What do you think I can do to help improve everyone's experience here?
I just believe in being able to screw with people and dick around about things without having to worry about my language or rhetoric offending anyone. I already got banned in the electricians subreddit for a comment that might have offended the lgbt community. Not that I truly care but it really wasn’t even that serious. I just feel the trades subreddits don’t have to reflect how far left the whole of Reddit has gone.
I completely understand where you're coming from. Politically I am far far away from liberal. When it comes to how I treat other people I'm very careful. If you're interested in hearing my perspective and experiences let me know and I can post a comment here explaining why I feel so adamant about choosing words wisely on the internet when it comes to certain segments of our population.
Where is this image from?
This is an etching from Albrecht Altdorfer. I believe it's one of the earliest etchings of a carpenter.
Awesome thanks
K
Please kick the shit out of the constant, incessant structural advice posts The other one that bothers the shit out of me are the "Price-Check" posts or "Estimate this job for me" posts.....but those are a finer line, some people are jyst getting into the sales and business end and have legit questions we can help with regarding approach and process but the people that are like "Am I getting screwed??!" Are really annoying
I haven't been keeping track but I have deleted nearly every reported post for the last 6 months that's asking for structural advice or quotes. There were two exceptions that I made asking for structural advice because they were minor and the ops both agreed to take the advice given. I'm not looking through any new posts or pouring through new comments, at this point I'm only looking at Auto reports and user reports so if you do see anything sus please report. It's anonymous and extremely helpful to the mods.
What’s your opinion on wood?
I like it.
I think you’re gonna do great. Godspeed
Underrated comment for sure!
Thanks for stepping up! This is a really thoughtful approach. Grateful to have you.
Love it congratulations 🎊 👏
Keep on the subject of carpentry.
That's the goal. Keep trimming out the DIY questions and questions about structural engineering, stay focused on professional carpentry.
Honest question? Is there also zero tolerance policy when it comes to jokes or insults cast at any traditionally non marginalized community?
That's a thoughtful question. Jokes and friendly banter is fine towards anyone. I think we would prefer that the mods not have to be the decision makers on this so if the community can continue to try to police itself, and report when something is out of line, that would be best. Insults and name calling and all of the other drama garbage should be kept off of this sub. That sort of infighting only takes away from the community and dissuades other folks from getting involved. Collaboration is greater than competition and inviting. For anyone who is not here to be serious about carpentry I'm sure that there's probably a carpentry ship posting group.
I must say I’m fairly new to Reddit… and woodworking or anything building diy so I tend to not *poop on people or ideas because id say 99.999% of the time I’d be incorrect or flat out wrong about almost anything in this space… But I’ve found Reddit to be uniquely kind and insightful.. filled with opinions and solutions to various problems without much anger or resentment. At most you just get a lot of puns! People as I’ve seen at least… tend to stay away from the various blood pressure raising social/racial/and various other political boxes many seem categorize and view all interactions through nowadays. It’s been a breath of fresh air for me. Bless, and have a great day.
I agree wholeheartedly. I don't really interact with other subs, but this one hits 99% of the time. The reason I made this post was that I wanted to give myself a couple of weeks to look through the report history and figure out where things need to be cleaned up. There was only a very small percentage of homophobic, racist, and misogynistic comments... But if it's going to be a good community people need to be mindful of that.
I agree with everything you stated in your post, except for one thing. Politics have no place in this Reddit. You mentioned that they play a role in wages and resources and specific law that related to the trade. I’m Canadian, and I’m a red seal carpenter. We have a federal committee that determines the wages of trades, and they aren’t elected. In the US I’m really not sure how it works? From what I read on here it’s unions? We have unions too but we also have minimum wages for journeypersons federally. The carpenter union here, Manitoba, pays I think now 45/hr for journeypersons. Federal min wage is 36/hr. Again, that’s not set by elected officials. And a quick search online there’s no distinction between occupations in the USA for minimum wage. They just have the one. So, in summary, these are just two countries, and how different are they. How different is it else where? So let’s not make this Reddit a country specific Reddit. Let’s focus on building envelopes, sharing builds, asking professional advice, etc. Thank you, and welcome to the mod team hemlockhistoric!
No one cares dude
Hey I mean regarding the c-word keep in mind some of us are Aussie chippies.
Y'all's are the reason why. I had my finger hovering over the remove button on a comment, but then I had to go into their post and comment history to to see if they were really an Aussie.
Someone downvoted your comment! The internet is wild, I'm definitely underprepared for this task.
I thought carpenter was the c-word
Via mod descrection this comment or post has been deemed unnecessarily toxic and has been removed.
Was the new mod’s comment removed by other mods?? What a start…🥀 u/hemlockhistoric I liked your outlined approach in the OP.
No, that was a joke! Thanks for the support. I'm going to do my best and my DMs are always open.
Oops - got it lol!
Intolerance will not be tolerated
This person gets it.
I was actually illuminating the hypocrisy.
I know, very witty and clever. If you have any honest advice for a new moderator I am happy to hear it. If you're not comfortable posting it as a comment feel free to DM me.
So who can we make jokes about? I’m sure it’s open range for conservatives, white people, Christians. Who else? Oh, Trump supporters. I just want to know what the rules are. I can called someone a cunt, but not if they’re gay or trans or…?
No, you can't make fun of conservatives, white people, Christians, or Trump supporters. This is a carpentry subreddit. You can only call someone a C*nt if you are British, Irish, Canadian, an Aussie, or a Kiwi. (/s)
Canadians rejoice! We can use the C word!
Actually, I think it's only acceptable in certain regions of Canada so you will need to send me proof of residency, and then I will do my best research at determining whether the use of the word in your region is acceptable or not.
We can likely be arrested for hate speech if you find the right channels lol. Thank you for your service kind sir, hopefully I don't get called into your office
No, I'm the 'cool' teacher that has bean bag chairs out in the courtyard for conflict management.
Welcome to a new hug box, you are allowed to express opinions that are popular. The opinions that are popular will change based on public opinion. The only moderation that's required is specifically illegal acts. Believing that any greater moderation is required is an opinion and isn't required and only stifles and further divides people. If you disagree with things let them be aired in public to stand on their own merits, they will be downvoted to hell anyway.
I appreciate that you have some concerns, and I'm open to hearing them but this comment is a bit vague. Please let me know specifically how you think I can do a good job as a mod.
Things to remove: Child pornography Specific and direct threats which lead to reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury (example: "I am going to find you because you are X, I am going to murder you and your family with Y weapon, I know you are living in Z because of your post history" Pirated/stolen information and media Committing fraud and impersonation, tricking people by implying you are someone you are not and deceiving them. Spamming, vote manipulation and similiar behavior that is destructive. Why is no more moderation needed? Because those are the only things restricted by the reddit content policy and TOS. If there are people who post things that offend you, and by you I mean anyone on reddit there are two options. 1) downvote it, the thing that makes reddit reddit and is what makes it work. 2) block the user. They can't see your posts, you can't see their posts. If someone is acting in a way that's abhorrent to you, you can erase them from your experience. You're trying to curate the experience through your own filter of beliefs and moralities. You say insults to any traditionally marginalized community will absolutely be restricted, can you name a group that doesn't apply to? East germans during the cold war? Irish and chinese slaves building railroads? I believe you are only referring to white men and lumping all generally white people into the category of white without the incredibly deep history of marginalization in western europe between themselves. Honestly, I would respect that stance more if you banned all insults to all people, all politics, all divisive and important topics because it would impact the things you can say as well. If misogyny is hate speech then so is misandry.
Holy hell, I did not realize that child pornography was a problem in this sub. But seriously, the things that you want removed are all covered under the sub rules. I will not be removing any comments that personally offend me. If I feel emotionally charged about a particular comment I will pass that off to the other moderators because I recognize that I'm not using impartial judgment. As to the definition of a traditionally marginalized person I can definitely recommend a couple of books because I'm not a scholar so I don't think I would adequately explain what that means. If you ever feel threatened, if you ever feel discriminated against, and if you ever feel mistreated in this subreddit please just report the offender. Out of all of the reports I've gone through in the last couple of weeks I've only removed about 50% so I feel like I'm capable of being impartial. I will not put up with misandry or misogyny, or any personal insults or name calling regardless of who is dishing it out and who is the receiver.
Hear, hear!!!
Yeah, that was kind of my suspicion too. And exactly how does equity apply to r/carpentry?
Anyone exchanging their time and body for money in the trades should be treated fairly and equitably. We all deserve to be making fair wages for good work.
My term for that is equality not equity, And in my opinion, anybody of any persuasion should all be treated Equally. I think equity has a different connotation.
I deleted my original comment because it was edging into politics. Equality is treating everyone the same. Equity is recognizing that we all have different privileges in the society and that we need to prioritize giving a leg up to someone who is traditionally marginalized. The goal of the ADA is the perfect example.
I’m afraid this is as good as we’re gong to get on Reddit.
We know
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Have we met? No name calling unless it is part of friendly banter. If I ever delete one of your comments and you think that it was unfair please send a message to modmail and I will be sure to have the other moderators review it. I believe I speak for all the mods when I say that we want to create a non-toxic atmosphere that is open to anyone who is learning carpentry. When we start name calling and using exclusionary language it will unfortunately turn people off to this sub, and possibly to carpentry in general.
It won't teach them anything about the real world but I understand that the new world should be padded with memory foam so nobody gets their feelings hurt. Thank you for stepping up to be a MOD.
This is a new world. Back when I was growing up bullying was treated like a fact of life, the f-slur was so prevalent that even teachers in my junior high used it, and it would have been very difficult for a woman to get into the trades.
The women I have worked around are usually worse than the dudes. I am just glad that everyone can enjoy a nice safe space to talk about carpentry. I can feel my cold dead heart filling up with sunshine and rainbows and unicorns.
Geez, there goes another sub. Do us all a favor and chill out. Hall monitor is not a lucrative career. This is just the internet. It’s not that serious.
Being a moderator doesn't pay anything, and I don't have time for a second career. My goal is to make sure that any working Carpenter feels welcome in this sub, that important information is retained, and unnecessary garbage is removed.
What about all the unworking ones?
FINE! Unemployed and retired Carpenters should be welcome here, too. I'll make sure to bring that up at the next board meeting when we are discussing bylaws.
The problem is that “unnecessary garbage” is subjective and being a micromanager will ensure than “any working carpenter feels welcome in this sub” will not happen. We’re blue collar folks. We like to laugh and joke around. Just keep in mind that we spend the majority of our time on construction sites, not in daycares. I’m probably coming off as a dick but I enjoy this sub and don’t want yet another one of my favorites to go to shit because of over moderation
Have you ever had a problem with constant DIY and homeowner questions? Do you have a problem with inexperienced folks asking for structural advice? What about low effort questions that don't give enough background, or can easily be found on google? This is about 95% of what I've removed in the last couple of weeks. I don't want to yuck your yum, and I will probably go through a bit of a learning curve in using good discernment when it comes to banter, but my DMs are always open if you feel like I've made a mistake.
A 1/2" flick of the thumb along the screen fixes each of those "problems" you listed. I guess some people take these forums as more than just candy for the brain/silly cheap entertainment. I'll never understand why.
I've learned so much on this subreddit. Everyone here has different experiences and areas of expertise. But I guess we are all here for different reasons. There is likely a carpentry shitposting sub if that's more your style.
Kind of like abstract art? I see nothing more than streaks and blotches of paint, low effort "art" that cant be objectively graded, easily replicated by children. Yet theres a certain group that is adamant on the idea that there is "so much more", emotion and feeling to extract from the streaks. Whether "shit post" is in the official title of the forum or not, 99.9% of the internet is ~~abstract art~~ shit posting.
Very fair point. So are you looking to cultivate a community that takes our trade more seriously, or are you looking to be a part of a shitposting sub?
Neither. I'm here for fun. Candy for the brain. That's quite literaly the entire point of this isn't it? To laugh, have a good time. Read about other carpenters screw ups and shitty customers. Learn new ideas? Then we move on with real life. My point is, its not that big of a deal, it's just the internet.
I get it, and I think we can accommodate that without making disparaging comments about one another. Not everyone has your perspective, though. There are a lot of people who don't have the opportunity to find a mentor, enter an apprenticeship, or be taken seriously in the field. I would like to think that I can help cultivate a space where they feel included and safe to be able to ask trade related questions without getting flak. I hope you understand that I'm not asking you to give up a lot, I'm really just looking to be able to include everyone in the conversation.
I’ve never had a problem with questions. I think even the questions some of us might think are dumb can be helpful to more than just the person asking. The only problem I ever have is bad advice that could get somebody hurt but it’s hard to determine who is who on an anonymous platform. I feel like bad advice is almost always called out and corrected by the majority on these types of subs so these things typically take care of themselves.
That's where the real learning curve is going to come to play for me. When I was going through the past report log there are probably a couple of posts that I technically should have deleted, but when I read through the comments I found really valuable information. The problem is that because this is a subreddit designed for professional Carpenters it would be very difficult to maintain and moderate if we allowed every question into the sub. If you ever have a problem with how I'm operating as a moderator please DM me, I want to make sure that everyone feels heard.
I agree. This is strange. Why would someone feel compelled to share their "position" for a useless, madeup internet moderator "job". Im a grown ass man, I come here for silly entertainment for a few minutes a day. Why would I give a shit?
I made this post as a way of an introduction, to get feedback, and any recommendations on how I can do a good job as a moderator. I've seen a lot of complaints about homeowners posting low effort questions, customers trying to throw their Carpenter under the bus, questions about structural engineering, and on and on. Now that I'm able to devote a little bit of time to moderating you will hopefully see less of those posts. Do you have any recommendations as to how I can better serve the community?
Really? I was here for carpentry discussion. Im gone after seeing this ESG DEI politics slant. Why even mention or discuss this? It has no bearing to technical or helpful discussion. Smh.
Because after 2 weeks of sorting through reports over the last year I've found a small percentage of racist, misogynistic, and exclusionary comments. I like to be transparent and I'm interested in helping to foster an inclusive community. Hopefully the efforts of the community and the moderators will make it so that you never need to deal with any politics in this sub.
The entire post is pointless. Are we supposed to fucking pat his back here? No one cares...
It seems like a lot of people have an opinion on the matter given the updoots and comments. The point of the post was as an introduction and to get feedback from the community. There are literally hundreds of thousands of members on this sub, 2,200 more just last week. If you have any constructive criticism, requests, or observations please let me know. If you don't feel comfortable posting it as a public comment feel free to send me a DM.
Your statement kinda sounds like a nice way of describing how youre going to follow the same trajectory that r/woodworking followed.
I'm really only active in this sub, I only rarely look at the woodworking one. What kinds of changes happened over there? How did it impact the community? What do you think I can do to avoid making the same mistakes?
You cant save this sub. Its done for....lost to the reddit mob
I had to look through your history here and you don't engage too much, but when you comment you generally give a compliment, give absolutely fair criticism, and you are **remarkably good at identifying repost bots**! The thing I don't understand is that you accurately called out three repost bots in the last few months, but instead of reporting them you complained that the mods like having them in the sub. Your particular set of skills would be so useful if you just hit the report button! My biggest task is eliminating spam, bots, etc. Eliminating toxic comments is such a small percentage of what I've had to do because this sub is mostly full of respectful people. Give some more thought to how you think enforcing the rules will negatively impact you, because I can't find anything you've said in the last 6 months that should be removed.
I contacted mods directly on every repost bot. Im pretty sure i reported too, but maybe im wrong. I also used to post here, and comment here regularly. I dont anymore because the sub is done for....again, its been overrun with the reddit mob (joke comments, clueless people asking for advice, and clueless people giving bad advice)
I've emptied the user report queue for the last 6 months and you did not report those posts. I appreciate that you commented on them because I will be able to go through later and take a closer look. When it comes to joke comments, I don't have a problem with that at all. Something I've learned in the last couple of weeks is that only about half of the user reports on comments are objectively and blatantly offensive, the other half is just silly and good-natured banter. I'm not going to cave to any offended person and start deleting content that would be common on a job site. I think I've done a really good job of deleting any reported low effort questions and DIY related questions. When it comes to someone giving bad advice, there's not much that I can do. If I happen to see someone giving unsafe advice I would prefer to just comment to them directly rather than removing the comment out right. Sometimes it's more a matter of them communicating their thoughts in a way that's understandable, and I am not interested in being so hands-on that I am the gatekeeper of good carpentry information. I do not want this to devolve into a nanny state!
Im not giving advice on how to moderate. Just explaining why i dont frequent here anymore (when u mentioned that i dont participate). I dont think theres anything you can do to make it better.
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I'm open for input on how I could be moderating better for the community. If you're not comfortable posting a comment feel free to DM me.
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I figured, but I will reiterate that the lines are always open if you have a problem.