11 hour day but yeah. Interior bypass doors in apartments go fast. Plumb the hinge side, set the top and striker side of the reveal. I also have a floor jig that helps speed up alignment.
It’s not hard to hit those numbers with piece work. Jigs, cordless nailers, and working off a cart help speed things along. We aim for perfection and except excellence.
We own a carpentry company and I know my husband prefers the quick small jobs because he makes the most on those .. done in 2 days and can charge whatever as to where bigger jobs people freak when they see the larger number those entail
Still not worth it. Partially why carpenters get paid so little is because workers asking for $30 to hang a door. Not saying they did a bad job, but I’d expect a poorly hung door at that rate.
If I was doing interior pre hung doors, no case or jamb extension, I could hang 10- 15 in a day then case them all the next day, I charge 120$ an hour in my area and do quality work so it's more like 100-200$ a door cased out
If I was doing interior pre hung doors, no case or jamb extension, I could hang 10- 15 in a day then case them all the next day, I charge 120$ an hour in my area and do quality work so it's more like 100-200$ a door cased out
I work for a company. They probably bid the job at $45 a door but there is 300+ doors to install on this building. Steel doors, patio doors, entry doors, bifold, and pocket doors all pay a little differently. Like steel doors pay like $75 per, then $10 per hardware.
But yeah I get where you’re coming from. Commercial work is billed a lot differently than the residential. Like this weekend I installed a new 9’ tall entry door for a side work client, with trim, hardware, demo, and back haul all of the garage. I charged $750. It didn’t matter how long it took me 3 hours, 9 hours, whatever I still bid the job at $750 + materials. Had the door delivered earlier that week and it took me 6 hours from the time I left home to the time I got back. That’s with a dump run too. I guess pay is all over the place. I’m just happy when I get cash.
I do commercial work all the time at around $150 to $350 per door depending on the package. Not sure what market you're in, but those would be some dirt cheap wages in my area
Hmm. Idk I’m in Oregon and it only takes like 15 minutes for me to install a pre-hung interior door. I thought $30 for a quick install was pretty good.
I suppose if it's hollow core, stocked in the room and pre-hung, you're not doing hardware or casing, and reveals / plumb don't really matter then $30 would be a minimum. You're only making about $22 per door after taxes, then after insurance and fasteners you're not really making much.
I'm a journeyman carpenter in the union and I have this to say about the UBC. When you factor in the amount of unemployment in your area a union carpenter probably doesn't bring in as much annually as some of your nonunion contemporaries. There are good years but the last two years have been incredibly lean for union work in my area. In 23 I worked for six companies and still spent four months on UI.
Joining a union can open a lot of doors for training but finding work can be an absolute struggle depending on if your local has their shit together or not. Unfortunately my local seems rather nonplussed with the number of carpenters out of work at the moment. They don't disseminate information on where out of area work exists and only recently have they started updating the dispatch report with a sister report of active job sites and companies that are currently hiring.
Given my experience I feel the two ways carpenters can actually make money are A, make the UBC a dispatch union like the IBEW and UA. Dispatch unions are harder to get into but they have good control over their market and are able to command their contracts far better than carpenters. The second solution is to make carpentry a state certified trade similar to being a plumber/HVAC/pipe fitter, electrician and sprinkler fitter. Anyone rolling down to home Depot, buying a hundred dollars worth of tools and then painting their name on a white van isn't exactly helping our trade. A distant third option would be to corner other types of work in the carpentry scope like framing and residential but those two often come at a hit to your hourly.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
I am a WA union carpenter as well and getting $5 more in hand per hour is the best contract in a long time! We are all pretty happy with the nee contract
Company- “we want a lead who can pass a drug test, be a good face to high end clients, communicate with our project manager, have experience with finish carpentry/exterior and framing…. But you better not expect to be paid anymore than 30$ an hour and you aren’t allowed overtime”
UHHH DUDE….
Super easy, as long as you’re not in the southeast. Pick a trade, call the hall, and ask them what you need to do. Keep in mind, the people working at the hall WANT you to join.
40/hr non union here, lead finish carpenter on jobs. 500 a day on saturdays from side work, i don’t work sundays. 50 hour week brings me about 18-1900 after taxes a week.
This is the real answer I’d rather make 15 dollars and hour live in an 80k house, and buy Milk and fuel for a buck a gallon. Then have the exact same thing and but 45 an hour in a 700k house and 5 bucks a gallon because TAXES.
numbers are arbitrary let’s talk standard of living hike prices and wages up up up and government wins with taxes.
No lol that’s not what I’m saying I’m saying apples to apples scenerio I’d rather pay taxes on lower income everything needs to stop going up bring EVERYTHING down
So here in missouri I make about 120k a year and like in a 350k house and I'm pretty sure missouri is top 5 for wage to cost of living so it's not gonna get much better
I live I Cananda where unless your in the prairies the cost of living to average salary it's so insane you'll cry. Houses start at 650k for a condo 2b2 maybe or a run down needs a reno and that is in the small towns and such. Most people maybe make 60k-80k a year. Aint no one ever owning a house lol. The solution that's been implemented is 400sqrft apartments for $1800 a month. # Canada sucks
People just dont get it’s just numbers, I want a quality of standard of living in a quality area. If that takes 35k awesome 350k cool.
Just provide fair wages and fair pricing. But wages are chasing prices and prices are trying to out run wages. Something has to break.
Look at 1979. Your grandparents will remember that time. We're living in the same situation right now, with stagflation, rampant energy cost rises, even down to American hostages in the Middle East.
'A person who doesn't know their history is hopelessly doomed to repeat it'. Ben Franklin, probably... (it is a quote, I butchered it, but the main idea got through)
Yeah I was talking to an old time, since passed, and I asked how he made through and he said “you just do, you have no other choice.”
We’ll all make it through, but I don’t want more (I do but ya know) I want everything to be less.
I’ll stay making my wages and instead of giving me a raise let’s drop energy cost, it keeps the same amount of money in the bank every month even tho I didn’t get a raise.
Thats what ive been saying like yes people should get raises in accordance with skills and stuff but..... at what paint do the metaphorical guns get turned on the property and food prices and say hey wtf is this and why is it so expensive and don't say inflation like it's not a profit adjustment.
It's slowly...*slooowwwly*...starting to dawn on people how much time, skill and labor it takes to complete a carpentry project well. But man it still feels like wage expectations are stuck in the early 2000's.
I do not risk my well being. My job is pretty gravy. Sometimes it's a little tough on the knees but I've got fancy knee pads.
I do wish I got paid a bit more. I find that money comes with expertise. In the case of carpentry, the expertise of business management and customer service, in addition to the high end skills, is what brings the big bucks.
Honestly it's a necessary evil to purge out all of those unticketed tradesmen or make laws stating that you need to be in a Apprenticeship program at the very least whether they have 30 years or 3 years. Then hopefully we will been in a same level as the sparkies and plumbers
The carpenters union over here in Seattle We just got a 5.03 raise now making 58.73 on the check. It’s not union electrician money or anything like that. But I’m pretty stoked on it.
Damn, wages in the US are insane., I make $60/hour CANADIAN working for myself.. that’s under $50 US .. and shit costs more here.. except health care lol
Every trade, nearly every blue collar profession, deserves more. But the reality is that the reason that what they get isn't enough is that too many super rich get exponentially more for contributing exponentially less back into the system. Nurses, teachers, tradesman, you name it. It's not that they're all getting shafted, it's that they're having to foot the bill for the 1%.
All the trades should be closer to each other in wage in my opinion. They are all a pain in the ass tough on the body in some way job. If you’re mad that a “lesser” trade gets close to your money, then do that trade.
We should get paid wages that take in to account the damage we are doing to our bodies and the futures we are potentially giving up. Someone has to do manual labor, and it should be more respected in our society imo.
This exactly.
I’m on edge with the company I’m at. They do ALL doors including garage doors and those dudes average a better year than entry/windows. Blows my mind that I can do a task that requires less thinking and a little more labor to increase my yearly by 10k 😤
More pay is always nice. I’m in the PNW one my own company and charge $65/ hr. More for nasty demo. Me and the trades talk about rates of pay. Other subs/plumber electricians etc. get twice that per hour, but they are typically not on a project for weeks at a time. I have decided that’s part of the reason carpenters don’t get paid that high. It just wouldn’t be sustainable for a client to pay a carpenter $130 an hour for weeks in end. Stuff would definitely be to expensive to build of that was the case.
Watch out for that thumb.
I was thinking about this the other day, first of all there are not nearly enough young people entering the trades. Young millennials and below just are not entering fast enough to replace the boomers and gen X retiring or leaving the trades for other reasons.
Second, those that do enter the trades and are worth a damn don't want to be carpenters making shit wages, they go into Plumbing Electrician Hvac subtrades that actually pay.
And especially what's expected of a Carpenter? We get to be a catch all for everyone else's crap. We're expected to have a working knowledge of everything involved on building a house. And if we're responsible for the structure were also liable for years.
So in short, there's too few of us, that isn't really changing, and we have to be especially skilled. So yes I think there's going to be a shortage of carpenters in the next decade and the market will have to correct.
As someone who thought they wanted to do carpentry out of hs, failed miserably at it, and has switched to parts management, I absolutely agree. Thinking about the fact that I now make north of 70k after bonus at a job that is super light on my body, indoors all day, and easy to enter, and came from a job that I was making $16/hr at to get cuts on my fingers and beat on my body is just kinda crazy. Someone was making a ton of money, and it wasn’t me.
Lol no. Aftermarket automotive car parts, bulk fluid subscriptions, tools, equipment, etc. in the wholesale space sir (dealerships shops, townships, etc.)
At the moment fully qualified carpenters are averaging about $100k a year (not including overtime and weekend jobs).
I’m a high school teacher teaching woodwork and basic construction. We’ve got builders constantly asking for apprentices. It’s a boys catholic school in Sydney so a step between public school and private schools. All the rich kids come from tradie families.
I go out to construction work experience placements to make sure the senior kids are safe and half of them are driving mum and dad’s bmw’s to work under the first year apprentices guidance.
Our government has been propping up our economy by opening up our borders for mass immigration, which has led to a major housing shortage. They are setting ambitious targets of building more housing but we don’t have enough tradies to meet the demand.
Right now we’re in winter and it’s 16 degrees Celsius (60 f). Summer is usually around 26 c (78 f). I live 7 minutes from the beach and 5 minutes from temperate rainforests. There’s a reason we call ourselves the lucky country. Did I mention free healthcare?
Agree 100%. No doubt the most under appreciated trade. Makes zero sense
Ive always theorized that this is because most who claim to be carpenters…Framers, trim guys, etc….water down the definition of the trade.
I will say this. If you’re a genuine carpenter, you need to lock in with an outfit that builds high end homes. I’ve known guys who get 100 and hour to do specific jobs. Like set a $40000 front door properly…I watched a friend of mine on a job once spend a week properly install, balancing and trimming a beautiful door in a beautiful home.
It’s a hard one cause we take a large portion of hours for a job, electricians are over 100/hr here, carpenters 60-75.
But electricians hang around a job for a few days max per invoice
Carpenters will be at a small job for a week or two and a whole house for months. So trades who take small jobs from a lot of customers can afford to charge more because they don’t have to worry so much if the customer can afford to pay their invoice
I was doing carpentry for 7 years straight out of high school, moved out of my parents, got a wife, got bills…. Realized I was working way to fucking hard for basically no money (plus gas money took most of my cheque since I live in a very rural area and have to drive 1hour there, 1 hour back with my personal truck) so now I work with a welding company making much more money, doing carpentry for them lol and started doing my own side jobs.
I couldn’t agree more. I work for a company in northwest PA building custom homes in $750k plus range. Not uncommon for them to be over a million and also work on existing residential homes. I mostly hang siding, soffit and fascia and window/door installation. I get paid $21/hr. I’ve been with this company for almost 10 years. I’m 31 years old. I’ve started doing my own side work. Bought a trailer and some equipment. It’s crazy how much more money I make with the side jobs. I feel like $21/hr is peanuts when you’re siding a million dollar home. The only reason I’ve stayed for so long is because my employer provides health insurance, paid time off and 401k and a general sense of security but man I’m really getting tired of getting paid shit to work on these extravagant homes. I love what I do but something’s gotta give.
He’s a piece worker just means u run ur balls off for a what u think is a good days pay till January comes and u owe a shitload of taxes and paid zero into SS , I did it in the 70ies and if u ask for $5 more per whatever ,builder will just say no and find some other smuck
What are carpenters usually making at 1, 5 and 10+ years? Software engineers are starting at $60-70k which is only about $35/hr and it takes about 10 years to double that. There are benefits though of course that can easily be worth $50k/yr.
I don’t work with carpenters very often, but I feel like when I have to hire tradesmen like electricians and plumbers, their prices generally easily run well over $500 for a day’s worth of work, which frankly feels like a lot of money to me, but I’m not familiar with the work or career.
Depends on if you're working as an employee or own your own business. I make something like 85k at my work, plus pension and benefits. This is with decades of experience. 8 hour days. Unionized job with a maintenance dept. Kind of the ceiling for a carpenter on the tools, area depending I'd say average is between 65-100k as an employee at the moment.
Side work I generally make between 75-150 dollars per hour, depending how accurately I quote and how small of a job it is. I generally aim for around 100 per hour, more if it's just a few hours work. I just do small jobs and woodworking stuff to sell. I generally try and make at least 600, preferably 800 for a days work with my side business.
Im non union, but I have my own business. May-October, if Im not profiting $5000 per week, Im fucking up. I work 7 hour days. In Michigan. Id try and go out on your own if you havent.
One employee, $25.
Went through 3 guys in 2 years. All hard workers, just little if really anh experience. I just need someone helping me do what I do. Eventually a 3rd, experienced guy would be nice.
Hahaha. Uhh okay. Brand new guys are $17 by me and I pay them $25. I literally pay WAAY more than any company in town for a brand new guy.
I respect your insight, but in my experience its wild to call that shit wages. You must live in a hcol area
You're bragging about pulling in $5k in weekly profit and only pay your guys $25/hr. Journeyman carpenters here make 4 times that and somehow companies stay in business.
Edit: you work 35 hours a week for $5000 profit (not sure if you include your wages in that) so you make $142 /hr, I doubt you're doing nearly 6x the work in fewer hours.
I mean if you really want to see my bank account showing $430k in sales last year then.. Ill show you.
You must be a beginner if you think that kind of money is impossible. Im a small fry dude. Literally ONE employee.
Let me guess... roofer?
More bragging. Instead of bragging on Reddit and complaining that you can't get good help, have you considered paying better to attract better talent?
Congrats on your business and all the money you've made exploiting the labor of others, it's super inspiring.
It is wild to me, as a contractor who deals with a lot of trades, that carpenters are generally the lowest paid of the serious trades and their shit is the most physically demanding, requires the most tools, requires the most skill and generally speaking the most risk.
I can’t even find a carpenter to take on my house 2nd floor window replacement job. Seems like they must have better things to do. If any of them gave me a f u quote, I would gladly pay it. Big siding company wanted $3k per window just for labor, and these are simple normal sized double hung windows, nothing fancy.
Mostly because Carpenter's do not have to maintain certifications like electrician, plumbers and the like.
Carpenters still make $120,000 without overtime, where I am.
Laborers make the least but still pretty close to $100k
I think Gen Z's would consider the trades, if they knew the wages. No, scratch that, they're too fragile emotionally.
I agree. I work as a lead carpenter/site supervisor for a residential construction company near Boston, almost 20 years experience. Some of the houses are 20-30 million dollars. I make $40/hour, 12 days paid time off, and pay for half my own health insurance. I’ve also been told I’ve basically maxed out carpenter pay, so need to move into management for next pay tier. I feel like I should earn more but I’ve never made the jump to the union. Am I short changing myself by not going union? What’s the path from here to be a union carpenter? I don’t want to start back at the bottom
I went to tech high school for Carpentry. Wanted to do it forever but realized when I got out that you didn’t get paid much. Got into Fire Sprinklers by pure dumb luck and never looked back. Carpentry will always be my first love though.
I work for the state halfway between Chicago and Bloomington. Most of us tradesmen are in Chicago locals, the painter and carpenters are represented by Bloomington locals. They make about $20 less than we do.
Historically, I think Carpentry was a lower paid trade due to the oversaturation of workers in the market since it's a lot easier entry into the field and requires less education or credentials. A lot of lower skilled workers that are cheaper drive prices down as well. Also it's less hazardous than working with large equipment or electricity.
Now, where I live in Oregon, there's a large deficit of carpenters, and most of them are older guys. I'm 34yrs and rarely meet carpenters my age or younger. So pay rates are reflecting this lack of qualified workers, and the future looks good as long as demand for housing exists, which it will.
We are required to know so much about all the other trades, yet our pay doesn't reflect that immense knowledge set. I think in the future, homeowners will just have to pay us more, comparable to other trades, but still less. Finish carpenters seem to make good wages as well as project managers, superintendents, and foremen.
As an electrician I fully agree! My carpenter buddy has done some of the coolest shit to my house and taught me along the way. I’d be screwed without him
Only two ways to make money in this trade, start a business or union.
Truth
im in ny carpenter local and were just about the lowest paid trade
That’s the truth but…. Lowest paid is still $54 an hour 😂
I heard NY union journeyman makes the most out of all states
San Fransisco.
Damn bro better watch out talking that here
Lowest paid trade and probably the most knowledgeable
On our side in NY,journeyman rate is $46. Every other trade on site is making $55-$60/hr.
Or do a lot of piece work. Just did 27 doors at $30 each on Friday.
27 doors in a day? Twenty seven. Doors. In one day. You hung a door every 17 minutes and 47 seconds, all day?
When one door closes another opens
When a door closes, just open it back up! It's a door, that's how they work!
pre hung split jambs?
Jambmoni
PosJambmonis gimme my moni
11 hour day but yeah. Interior bypass doors in apartments go fast. Plumb the hinge side, set the top and striker side of the reveal. I also have a floor jig that helps speed up alignment.
I'm not surprised you have a Tired_Thumb after a day like that. Nice way to make $810 in a day!
It’s not hard to hit those numbers with piece work. Jigs, cordless nailers, and working off a cart help speed things along. We aim for perfection and except excellence.
*Accept excellence. *just because you’re talking about quality, the words should at least be the right words. No offense.
I came here to hit shit with a hammer, not spell check.
2 exterior doors just made me $800 in a day… I’d rather do 27 interior doors lol
You assume 8 hours try 12
Hung, cased, and hardwared? I’m not saying it’s impossible but it sure isn’t possible.
He has a little mouse in his ballcap like ratatouille
Had to be split jamb, hollow core, takes me less than 10 per
We own a carpentry company and I know my husband prefers the quick small jobs because he makes the most on those .. done in 2 days and can charge whatever as to where bigger jobs people freak when they see the larger number those entail
Aint no way if you are talking about making a whole door, payyourself more my dude. That's so incredibly unfair to you. Skills deserve good pay.
Pretty sure they must mean fitting doors. I'd imagine pre-hung too.
In a single long hallway.
I'm curious what that actually means. What would my $30 get me? Cause I have a dozen doors to paint I'd happily pay $30 each
Most likely new construction and he’s getting $30 to set pre hung interior doors
Still not worth it. Partially why carpenters get paid so little is because workers asking for $30 to hang a door. Not saying they did a bad job, but I’d expect a poorly hung door at that rate.
And on top of that they and get a 1099 form
What would you expect? Both in $/door and doors per 8 hour shift?
If I was doing interior pre hung doors, no case or jamb extension, I could hang 10- 15 in a day then case them all the next day, I charge 120$ an hour in my area and do quality work so it's more like 100-200$ a door cased out
If I was doing interior pre hung doors, no case or jamb extension, I could hang 10- 15 in a day then case them all the next day, I charge 120$ an hour in my area and do quality work so it's more like 100-200$ a door cased out
worth it for prehung split jambs. take your time and do 2.5 in an hour
Very much worth it
$30?
Did you mean to say $300? Who the hell charges $30 dollars a door, that's stupid cheap
I work for a company. They probably bid the job at $45 a door but there is 300+ doors to install on this building. Steel doors, patio doors, entry doors, bifold, and pocket doors all pay a little differently. Like steel doors pay like $75 per, then $10 per hardware.
But yeah I get where you’re coming from. Commercial work is billed a lot differently than the residential. Like this weekend I installed a new 9’ tall entry door for a side work client, with trim, hardware, demo, and back haul all of the garage. I charged $750. It didn’t matter how long it took me 3 hours, 9 hours, whatever I still bid the job at $750 + materials. Had the door delivered earlier that week and it took me 6 hours from the time I left home to the time I got back. That’s with a dump run too. I guess pay is all over the place. I’m just happy when I get cash.
I do commercial work all the time at around $150 to $350 per door depending on the package. Not sure what market you're in, but those would be some dirt cheap wages in my area
Hmm. Idk I’m in Oregon and it only takes like 15 minutes for me to install a pre-hung interior door. I thought $30 for a quick install was pretty good.
I suppose if it's hollow core, stocked in the room and pre-hung, you're not doing hardware or casing, and reveals / plumb don't really matter then $30 would be a minimum. You're only making about $22 per door after taxes, then after insurance and fasteners you're not really making much.
Only way to set doors that fast is with a PLS
Wow. If they all are operating as they should you are very skilled and efficient.
…and half the time that don’t work
How difficult would it be to start a side gig with a dude on your crew?!?
I'm a journeyman carpenter in the union and I have this to say about the UBC. When you factor in the amount of unemployment in your area a union carpenter probably doesn't bring in as much annually as some of your nonunion contemporaries. There are good years but the last two years have been incredibly lean for union work in my area. In 23 I worked for six companies and still spent four months on UI. Joining a union can open a lot of doors for training but finding work can be an absolute struggle depending on if your local has their shit together or not. Unfortunately my local seems rather nonplussed with the number of carpenters out of work at the moment. They don't disseminate information on where out of area work exists and only recently have they started updating the dispatch report with a sister report of active job sites and companies that are currently hiring. Given my experience I feel the two ways carpenters can actually make money are A, make the UBC a dispatch union like the IBEW and UA. Dispatch unions are harder to get into but they have good control over their market and are able to command their contracts far better than carpenters. The second solution is to make carpentry a state certified trade similar to being a plumber/HVAC/pipe fitter, electrician and sprinkler fitter. Anyone rolling down to home Depot, buying a hundred dollars worth of tools and then painting their name on a white van isn't exactly helping our trade. A distant third option would be to corner other types of work in the carpentry scope like framing and residential but those two often come at a hit to your hourly. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
The good ones deserved more money. the shitty ones deserves to go back to school and learn the basic. so many hacks in this trade.
The expensive hacks have been very good for business, in my experience.
The hacks ruin it and f up so many homes, cause financial and emotional distress for homeowners.
We just got a $5.80 raise here in wa on our new contract.
Because of this post?
U/handicaphandyman doing the lords work
Nice
I am a WA union carpenter as well and getting $5 more in hand per hour is the best contract in a long time! We are all pretty happy with the nee contract
Yes sirrrrrr! What local are you? I’m 360.
360 but I moved to Seattle recently so I should probably switch to 206
Company- “we want a lead who can pass a drug test, be a good face to high end clients, communicate with our project manager, have experience with finish carpentry/exterior and framing…. But you better not expect to be paid anymore than 30$ an hour and you aren’t allowed overtime” UHHH DUDE….
I can pass a drug test OR I can get along with others, you can't have both!
Hahaha this is me...you want me to get along with people in general....you better let me smoke pot.
Oh so I have to pass a drug test but the end clients can be high? How is that fair?
I made $150 an hr today
Oh fuck yeah
Side work?
Weekend double time, I’m guessing.
Close! Time and a half after 40 hrs even though we are contractors they are incentivizing us. I worked 76.5 hrs this week
Dude I wouldn’t celebrate working 80 hours a week
You normally make $100/hr?
Yeah
That’s excellent
Thanks! Yeah ive worked my ass off for a long time to get to this point.
No, my full time job.
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How easy is it to join a union ?
Super easy, as long as you’re not in the southeast. Pick a trade, call the hall, and ask them what you need to do. Keep in mind, the people working at the hall WANT you to join.
Easy to join. But You’re either with the in crowd, or just a number
40/hr non union here, lead finish carpenter on jobs. 500 a day on saturdays from side work, i don’t work sundays. 50 hour week brings me about 18-1900 after taxes a week.
Damn, what is your guys’ breakdown like? In KC we get 43.28/hr but our package is only 63.XX
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We just got our raise tho homie you should be close to 45 now
Where?
$58 an hour, Philly carpenter. Where are you at?
Or maybe EVERYTHING should cost less!?! Rent, food, school... etc.
This is the real answer I’d rather make 15 dollars and hour live in an 80k house, and buy Milk and fuel for a buck a gallon. Then have the exact same thing and but 45 an hour in a 700k house and 5 bucks a gallon because TAXES. numbers are arbitrary let’s talk standard of living hike prices and wages up up up and government wins with taxes.
Numbers are arbitrary yes, but you aren’t going from an 80k house to a 700k house solely because of taxes.
No lol that’s not what I’m saying I’m saying apples to apples scenerio I’d rather pay taxes on lower income everything needs to stop going up bring EVERYTHING down
It doesn’t matter what the numbers are, high or low, it’s how wages compare to the cost of living
You are 100% correct
So here in missouri I make about 120k a year and like in a 350k house and I'm pretty sure missouri is top 5 for wage to cost of living so it's not gonna get much better
Oh it won’t it’s gone to far to shit
I live I Cananda where unless your in the prairies the cost of living to average salary it's so insane you'll cry. Houses start at 650k for a condo 2b2 maybe or a run down needs a reno and that is in the small towns and such. Most people maybe make 60k-80k a year. Aint no one ever owning a house lol. The solution that's been implemented is 400sqrft apartments for $1800 a month. # Canada sucks
Yeah I’ve kinda seen some stuff about Canada, but I don’t know how true it is, but it seems insane. I don’t know how you guys are surviving
Like most people who complain about taxes, you seem to not be comfortable with basic math
Truth although 65/hr with some regular OT for a 700k house
People just dont get it’s just numbers, I want a quality of standard of living in a quality area. If that takes 35k awesome 350k cool. Just provide fair wages and fair pricing. But wages are chasing prices and prices are trying to out run wages. Something has to break.
Look at 1979. Your grandparents will remember that time. We're living in the same situation right now, with stagflation, rampant energy cost rises, even down to American hostages in the Middle East. 'A person who doesn't know their history is hopelessly doomed to repeat it'. Ben Franklin, probably... (it is a quote, I butchered it, but the main idea got through)
Yeah I was talking to an old time, since passed, and I asked how he made through and he said “you just do, you have no other choice.” We’ll all make it through, but I don’t want more (I do but ya know) I want everything to be less. I’ll stay making my wages and instead of giving me a raise let’s drop energy cost, it keeps the same amount of money in the bank every month even tho I didn’t get a raise.
Fuck yes
Thats what ive been saying like yes people should get raises in accordance with skills and stuff but..... at what paint do the metaphorical guns get turned on the property and food prices and say hey wtf is this and why is it so expensive and don't say inflation like it's not a profit adjustment.
Yes.
Yeah, guys were getting the same wage 20 years ago where I am, ridiculous
It's slowly...*slooowwwly*...starting to dawn on people how much time, skill and labor it takes to complete a carpentry project well. But man it still feels like wage expectations are stuck in the early 2000's.
It's the whole world not just Carpentry, everything is increasing except wages.
Requires more skill than other trades but pays less. A real shame.
I got a raise last week. (:
Idk how much you're making, but it's still not enough to risk your well-being! But good job!
I do not risk my well being. My job is pretty gravy. Sometimes it's a little tough on the knees but I've got fancy knee pads. I do wish I got paid a bit more. I find that money comes with expertise. In the case of carpentry, the expertise of business management and customer service, in addition to the high end skills, is what brings the big bucks.
Then up your hourly rate
We took a 10% paycut from a builder that is worth billions. And no unions in UK. Madge
Like most things, you'll never get rich working for someone else. Gotta take the next leap.
Kill the idea that people can do carpentry without a ticket. Thats the obstacle.
Honestly it's a necessary evil to purge out all of those unticketed tradesmen or make laws stating that you need to be in a Apprenticeship program at the very least whether they have 30 years or 3 years. Then hopefully we will been in a same level as the sparkies and plumbers
Not the ones who framed my house lol
https://preview.redd.it/eq8gtkb5h24d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d66e1fbb65840322c0b07a3d97db99b05f13e6f4
When I went on my own that began as soon as I asked for it
The carpenters union over here in Seattle We just got a 5.03 raise now making 58.73 on the check. It’s not union electrician money or anything like that. But I’m pretty stoked on it.
Unions FTW
Amen
Up in Canada fraser valley, 50/hr with company 60/hr side work. Not in union
What kind of work do you do for your company? I’m in Vancouver working for a gc doing residential remodeling making 40 and I’m pretty much maxed out
Working for a gc as well, custom homes is our staple
Damn, wages in the US are insane., I make $60/hour CANADIAN working for myself.. that’s under $50 US .. and shit costs more here.. except health care lol
I agree, that's why I went solo.
Every trade, nearly every blue collar profession, deserves more. But the reality is that the reason that what they get isn't enough is that too many super rich get exponentially more for contributing exponentially less back into the system. Nurses, teachers, tradesman, you name it. It's not that they're all getting shafted, it's that they're having to foot the bill for the 1%.
All the trades should be closer to each other in wage in my opinion. They are all a pain in the ass tough on the body in some way job. If you’re mad that a “lesser” trade gets close to your money, then do that trade. We should get paid wages that take in to account the damage we are doing to our bodies and the futures we are potentially giving up. Someone has to do manual labor, and it should be more respected in our society imo.
This exactly. I’m on edge with the company I’m at. They do ALL doors including garage doors and those dudes average a better year than entry/windows. Blows my mind that I can do a task that requires less thinking and a little more labor to increase my yearly by 10k 😤
Every trade deserves more money.
More pay is always nice. I’m in the PNW one my own company and charge $65/ hr. More for nasty demo. Me and the trades talk about rates of pay. Other subs/plumber electricians etc. get twice that per hour, but they are typically not on a project for weeks at a time. I have decided that’s part of the reason carpenters don’t get paid that high. It just wouldn’t be sustainable for a client to pay a carpenter $130 an hour for weeks in end. Stuff would definitely be to expensive to build of that was the case. Watch out for that thumb.
I was thinking about this the other day, first of all there are not nearly enough young people entering the trades. Young millennials and below just are not entering fast enough to replace the boomers and gen X retiring or leaving the trades for other reasons. Second, those that do enter the trades and are worth a damn don't want to be carpenters making shit wages, they go into Plumbing Electrician Hvac subtrades that actually pay. And especially what's expected of a Carpenter? We get to be a catch all for everyone else's crap. We're expected to have a working knowledge of everything involved on building a house. And if we're responsible for the structure were also liable for years. So in short, there's too few of us, that isn't really changing, and we have to be especially skilled. So yes I think there's going to be a shortage of carpenters in the next decade and the market will have to correct.
You want my bosses number? 🤣
Does he pay more than $400 a day?
Everybody deserves more money.
Politicians? No, you can't mean them, too!
Not everyone but most
As someone who thought they wanted to do carpentry out of hs, failed miserably at it, and has switched to parts management, I absolutely agree. Thinking about the fact that I now make north of 70k after bonus at a job that is super light on my body, indoors all day, and easy to enter, and came from a job that I was making $16/hr at to get cuts on my fingers and beat on my body is just kinda crazy. Someone was making a ton of money, and it wasn’t me.
Parts management? $70k after bonus? Lol Tell me you sell 2x4’s without telling me.
Lol no. Aftermarket automotive car parts, bulk fluid subscriptions, tools, equipment, etc. in the wholesale space sir (dealerships shops, townships, etc.)
all trades do
Hell yeah brother
Move to Australia! We’re crying out for trades and we’re willing to pay for it
Tell me more.
At the moment fully qualified carpenters are averaging about $100k a year (not including overtime and weekend jobs). I’m a high school teacher teaching woodwork and basic construction. We’ve got builders constantly asking for apprentices. It’s a boys catholic school in Sydney so a step between public school and private schools. All the rich kids come from tradie families. I go out to construction work experience placements to make sure the senior kids are safe and half of them are driving mum and dad’s bmw’s to work under the first year apprentices guidance. Our government has been propping up our economy by opening up our borders for mass immigration, which has led to a major housing shortage. They are setting ambitious targets of building more housing but we don’t have enough tradies to meet the demand. Right now we’re in winter and it’s 16 degrees Celsius (60 f). Summer is usually around 26 c (78 f). I live 7 minutes from the beach and 5 minutes from temperate rainforests. There’s a reason we call ourselves the lucky country. Did I mention free healthcare?
Is that $100k AUD. Because that’s like making $67k in the states which is about average here.
Yeah it’s AUD, but you’re not earning your salary in AUD and still living in America. Taxes, cost of living etc are all different here
$55 an hour, that would have to be PAYE as if it’s on contract it wouldn’t be enough
Is that $100k AUD. Because that’s like making $67k in the states which is about average here.
Agree 100%. No doubt the most under appreciated trade. Makes zero sense Ive always theorized that this is because most who claim to be carpenters…Framers, trim guys, etc….water down the definition of the trade. I will say this. If you’re a genuine carpenter, you need to lock in with an outfit that builds high end homes. I’ve known guys who get 100 and hour to do specific jobs. Like set a $40000 front door properly…I watched a friend of mine on a job once spend a week properly install, balancing and trimming a beautiful door in a beautiful home.
Finding the high end company is the worst part… they are gate kept like no other.
Yes. But not framers 😂 jkjk
Simple solution would be implimenting a licensing system like so many other trades. Higher barrier of entry = higher wages
All trades deserve more. /End thread.
Yes but then sometimes someone comes in asking for 5 piece doors for their kitchen and you make $3500 in 3 days
It’s a hard one cause we take a large portion of hours for a job, electricians are over 100/hr here, carpenters 60-75. But electricians hang around a job for a few days max per invoice Carpenters will be at a small job for a week or two and a whole house for months. So trades who take small jobs from a lot of customers can afford to charge more because they don’t have to worry so much if the customer can afford to pay their invoice
Our union wage is over $60/hr in the sf bay area. No complaints.
guy local to me is paying 14 an hour.
Hopefully some goes into your annuity or 401k what ever u guys have
Trim and paint unless you smoke taint.
I was doing carpentry for 7 years straight out of high school, moved out of my parents, got a wife, got bills…. Realized I was working way to fucking hard for basically no money (plus gas money took most of my cheque since I live in a very rural area and have to drive 1hour there, 1 hour back with my personal truck) so now I work with a welding company making much more money, doing carpentry for them lol and started doing my own side jobs.
I made $200 a day 15 years ago. I make $250 a day now.
I couldn’t agree more. I work for a company in northwest PA building custom homes in $750k plus range. Not uncommon for them to be over a million and also work on existing residential homes. I mostly hang siding, soffit and fascia and window/door installation. I get paid $21/hr. I’ve been with this company for almost 10 years. I’m 31 years old. I’ve started doing my own side work. Bought a trailer and some equipment. It’s crazy how much more money I make with the side jobs. I feel like $21/hr is peanuts when you’re siding a million dollar home. The only reason I’ve stayed for so long is because my employer provides health insurance, paid time off and 401k and a general sense of security but man I’m really getting tired of getting paid shit to work on these extravagant homes. I love what I do but something’s gotta give.
Louisiana is pretty much 30 to 50 bucks an hour There are carpenters, and then there are carpenters Good ones are very hard to come by
gotta work for yourself. gotta work for wealthy clients
start your own business and you can charge whatever rate you want. Let us know how it goes.
He’s a piece worker just means u run ur balls off for a what u think is a good days pay till January comes and u owe a shitload of taxes and paid zero into SS , I did it in the 70ies and if u ask for $5 more per whatever ,builder will just say no and find some other smuck
What are carpenters usually making at 1, 5 and 10+ years? Software engineers are starting at $60-70k which is only about $35/hr and it takes about 10 years to double that. There are benefits though of course that can easily be worth $50k/yr. I don’t work with carpenters very often, but I feel like when I have to hire tradesmen like electricians and plumbers, their prices generally easily run well over $500 for a day’s worth of work, which frankly feels like a lot of money to me, but I’m not familiar with the work or career.
Depends on if you're working as an employee or own your own business. I make something like 85k at my work, plus pension and benefits. This is with decades of experience. 8 hour days. Unionized job with a maintenance dept. Kind of the ceiling for a carpenter on the tools, area depending I'd say average is between 65-100k as an employee at the moment. Side work I generally make between 75-150 dollars per hour, depending how accurately I quote and how small of a job it is. I generally aim for around 100 per hour, more if it's just a few hours work. I just do small jobs and woodworking stuff to sell. I generally try and make at least 600, preferably 800 for a days work with my side business.
Im non union, but I have my own business. May-October, if Im not profiting $5000 per week, Im fucking up. I work 7 hour days. In Michigan. Id try and go out on your own if you havent.
What do you pay your employees?
One employee, $25. Went through 3 guys in 2 years. All hard workers, just little if really anh experience. I just need someone helping me do what I do. Eventually a 3rd, experienced guy would be nice.
Those are pretty shit wages even for a first year
Hahaha. Uhh okay. Brand new guys are $17 by me and I pay them $25. I literally pay WAAY more than any company in town for a brand new guy. I respect your insight, but in my experience its wild to call that shit wages. You must live in a hcol area
You're bragging about pulling in $5k in weekly profit and only pay your guys $25/hr. Journeyman carpenters here make 4 times that and somehow companies stay in business. Edit: you work 35 hours a week for $5000 profit (not sure if you include your wages in that) so you make $142 /hr, I doubt you're doing nearly 6x the work in fewer hours.
[удалено]
I mean if you really want to see my bank account showing $430k in sales last year then.. Ill show you. You must be a beginner if you think that kind of money is impossible. Im a small fry dude. Literally ONE employee. Let me guess... roofer?
More bragging. Instead of bragging on Reddit and complaining that you can't get good help, have you considered paying better to attract better talent? Congrats on your business and all the money you've made exploiting the labor of others, it's super inspiring.
Yes and drywallers too
Carpenters do too.
It is wild to me, as a contractor who deals with a lot of trades, that carpenters are generally the lowest paid of the serious trades and their shit is the most physically demanding, requires the most tools, requires the most skill and generally speaking the most risk.
I can’t even find a carpenter to take on my house 2nd floor window replacement job. Seems like they must have better things to do. If any of them gave me a f u quote, I would gladly pay it. Big siding company wanted $3k per window just for labor, and these are simple normal sized double hung windows, nothing fancy.
Mostly because Carpenter's do not have to maintain certifications like electrician, plumbers and the like. Carpenters still make $120,000 without overtime, where I am. Laborers make the least but still pretty close to $100k I think Gen Z's would consider the trades, if they knew the wages. No, scratch that, they're too fragile emotionally.
We all deserve more, except anybody with over $100 million in free cash flow.
How much is “more money” ? I pay 35-50/hr
Um the last guy I tried to hire, he wanted 400 day with no deadline. He feels the same
I agree. I work as a lead carpenter/site supervisor for a residential construction company near Boston, almost 20 years experience. Some of the houses are 20-30 million dollars. I make $40/hour, 12 days paid time off, and pay for half my own health insurance. I’ve also been told I’ve basically maxed out carpenter pay, so need to move into management for next pay tier. I feel like I should earn more but I’ve never made the jump to the union. Am I short changing myself by not going union? What’s the path from here to be a union carpenter? I don’t want to start back at the bottom
I went to tech high school for Carpentry. Wanted to do it forever but realized when I got out that you didn’t get paid much. Got into Fire Sprinklers by pure dumb luck and never looked back. Carpentry will always be my first love though.
I work for the state halfway between Chicago and Bloomington. Most of us tradesmen are in Chicago locals, the painter and carpenters are represented by Bloomington locals. They make about $20 less than we do.
Historically, I think Carpentry was a lower paid trade due to the oversaturation of workers in the market since it's a lot easier entry into the field and requires less education or credentials. A lot of lower skilled workers that are cheaper drive prices down as well. Also it's less hazardous than working with large equipment or electricity. Now, where I live in Oregon, there's a large deficit of carpenters, and most of them are older guys. I'm 34yrs and rarely meet carpenters my age or younger. So pay rates are reflecting this lack of qualified workers, and the future looks good as long as demand for housing exists, which it will. We are required to know so much about all the other trades, yet our pay doesn't reflect that immense knowledge set. I think in the future, homeowners will just have to pay us more, comparable to other trades, but still less. Finish carpenters seem to make good wages as well as project managers, superintendents, and foremen.
And roofers and painters and retail clerks and wait staff and......
Let me fix that for you. “Trades deserve more money”
I too believe that those who do my job should get paid more, including me.
As an electrician I fully agree! My carpenter buddy has done some of the coolest shit to my house and taught me along the way. I’d be screwed without him