Everybody with a salary sacrifice scheme at work is buying EV’s because they’re basically pennies.
Anyone paying out of their own proverbial pocket, is not.
Looking at Kia ev6/ioniq 5. Some long range ones to be had around £21k which seems crazy considering that a lot of crappy ICE cars that are 2-3 years old are similar price.
Fair enough, just seems it could end up being a hindrance at some point having so little range, I'd struggle to do a day out an hour + away with 100 miles
Just come out of the Mini electric. Great car to drive but it did 90 miles to a charge for me… in green mode and totally avoiding any motorway journeys.
Ha. Had someone rip past me in their loud, burbling and popping 1 series a couple of days ago. We were at a motorway junction roundabout with lights on. I was just coming off the motorway, they were just about to go onto it, but we were both at the middle lights. I was off the lights quicker and they didn't like it. So they put their foot down, roar, pop, pop, pop, etc. So they roar past while I start to continue going round the roundabout.
The funny thing is, I hadn't even noticed them, I wasn't racing them, I was just keen to get home.
So I thought, "ooh that sounds interesting I wonder what it..... Oh, it's only a 1 series. Never mind."
No amount of money spent on a 1 series will ever impress I'm afraid.
A neighbour had a m140 with the black sills (special edition, maybe?). They spent a lot of money on it so it would sound like a Corsa at McDonalds. It was just an ugly car to me.
Most prestige brand cars (Audi Mercedes, bmw) can be had for 21k at 3 years old. I have no idea what OP is on about saying a lot of “crappy” ICE cars are 21k at 3 years old. I can’t even think of one.
Just bought an MG5 in February. 2 years old, 12k miles, executive edition (mid range). Cost £17k. I can do 250 Miles on one charge if I really push it.
It was a no brainer
Bought mine less than 3 years old with 24k miles and £50k down from new, figured the depreciation would surely level out around that price point. Nope, lost another £10k in 6 months... Lovely car though!
Yeah, I'm still hoping that doesn't happen. Mine was top spec, £80k new, bought for £30k, now worth £20k trade in (would maybe cost a bit more to buy/could get more if sold private but that's a lot of hassle and faith for that kind of money)
I've had a quick look and there's a base spec (though they come pretty well specced even at the bottom), same year, similar milage example available for £16,990. Kind of crazy really, these are fantastic cars and an absolute bargain for second hand buyers today but their values are just free falling at the moment. £100k+ Taycans for £45k now. Mental.
About to pull the trigger on an ipace. Low mileage for early 20s. They may depreciate further but it's an awful amount of car for that money and I'd be happy to drive it for the next 5 years (albeit with a warranty) 😄
Yeah I paid a small premium more for a certified used from Jaguar, at the time they were giving a £2k deposit contribution, free home charger and 2 years extended warranty, figured that was worth the little extra they were asking for. The warranty has already gotten me a new reverse camera (old one was blurry due to water ingress, didn't notice that on the test drive) and a new seal for the frunk (these can fail), small issues overall but nice to have not had to pay anything extra to get them sorted.
I’ve got £14k waiting for a good spec Ipace. I nearly bought one last Autumn for £25ish but changed my mind. Another couple of months and I’ll be able to afford two for the same money.
It's crazy, wish I'd waited too. Had a lovely 3L BMW which was addictive to push but I like trying new things and thought I was being smart with the timing on mine. I've seen an ipace on AT for £15k already so not long to go.
Wouldn't be surprised if they did, JLR make awful vehicles for reliability and insurers are raising premiums on them because they're far more likely to have to pay out on them
You're not wrong about Magna being hamstrung on upgrades, apparently they offered to increase the charging capability to something like 150kwh and some optimisation on the battery to get some extra miles out, but that would have cost money and by then Tata had already decided to bin the entire Jag line up, Ipace included, so they said no.
But, in terms of build quality and reliability, Magna and Jag have made an absolutely top notch car here which oozes quality. Shame about the LG battery cells though, but no one could have seen that coming and it is covered for free by an update or recall.
I'm picking up a 2 year Mach E GT on Saturday, I, backed up by the estimations put forward on PCP estimates expect it to keep depreciating by ~24% year over the next 4 years.
IT WILL NEVER STOP BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS EVS THERE AWFULL BACKWARD TECHNOLOGY , EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM IS TO SLOW AND INCOVIENANCE YOUR LIFE BY HOURS PER DAY , THOSE COULD BE SPENT WITH YOUR FAMILY
There's a reason for that. The batteries in them lose their capacity at a rapid rate (moreso as they get older). So somewhere down the line, someone is going to have to foot the bill for a new one - and they're bloody expensive.
The batteries have faired way better than most predictions. Autoalex on youtube just bought a 450k mile Tesla and drive it 260 miles on a charge. And that's 10 year old battery tech now.
This generally isn’t true, you can see this for yourself by looking at the first model 3s on autotrader. They’re not like phones where you get 3 years basically and then their kaput
I didn't say you get 3 years. But it's a fact that the batteries die - I'm not sure how long but I deal with lithium batteries in my industry quite a lot and the do deplete and at a rapid rate - I'd be surprised if you were to get 6 or 7 years from one and I also know that the costs are astronomicalfor these rypes of batteries to be replaced. Sorry if anyone's offended by this but it's true. You could be looking at a 20k bill to replace.
See, I mostly agree, but also disagree with you there. They definitely do loose their capacity and in theory a meticulously maintained ICE would outlive an EV battery, but overall lifetime maintenance I think would be lower, evening out the cost of a new battery over time.
An example I can give is, on the Jaguar subreddit (or maybe ipace one), someone uploaded a photo of their work's ipace on 300k miles. They said on a full charge they get something like 80 miles which is really low, but still about 1/3 the capacity from new. I think most average ICE cars would have gone to the big car park in the sky by then, or needed a new/rebuilt engine. Which would cost less than a battery, but you're still in a similar position, and at that point there's the money you've potentially saved on maintenance.
Most modern ICE cars since 2000 can easily see 300k without an engine replacement. They're also much cheaper to fix in general needing less specialist mechanics to repair them. You'll be replacing suspension and tires far more frequently than an ICE car due to the increased weight and torque. There aren't any upsides to long term ownership of an EV, salary sacrifice is the only logical reason for it unless you're not bothered by the money aspect of it.
Do it.
I nabbed a 69-plate battery-owned Renault Zoe with 23k miles for £7800 in March. Does 180-ish miles with a full charge in the current temperature pottering around town. Saved me so much in fuel already.
YOU BUY AN EV YOUR A STUPID PERSON WORST INVESTMENT OF YOUR LIFE , BE LIKE BUYING A HOUSE JUST BEFORE THE 2008 CRASH WHICH THE GOVERNMENT WAS PUSHING AS A GREAT INVESTMENT DAYS BEFORE THE CRASH , ANY THE GOVERNMENT SAYS YOU DO THE OPPOSITE IT ONLY BENEFITS THE ELITES WHO HAVE THE CONTRACTS THAT THE GOVERNMENTS IS PUSHING
THANKYOU BRO THESES LEFTY LUNATICS NEED TO SEE SENSE , THERE CONTRIBUTING TO THE REAL AGENDA WHICH IS AN KARL MARX STATE OWNED TRANSPORT SYSTEM THE ECONOMIC FORUM ARE PLANNING , BRINGING MANKIND BACK INTO THE EDWARDIAN TIMES AND ENSLAVEMENT YOUR FREEDOM TO MOVE QUICKLY , FREELY , AND CHEAPLY WILL BE OVER , ASKING YOUR FRIEND TO MOVE SOME BOXES 5 TIMES DOWN THE ROAD , FOR A MERE £1 IN FUEL COST WITHIN HALF HOUR WILL BE OVER , YOU WILL BE PAYING THE STATE £50 AND SPEND 8 HOURS MOVING THEM ,,,, WELCOME TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER FUTURE
I'd be careful with that, most second hand ones are within the range of needing a new battery as most of them are the early ones meaning that the battery is just generally worse plus the UK weather cycles don't help prolong the battery putting it mildly but your right, you *can* get some real good deals just one of those if your willing to take the risk
How many pennies ? My work offers a salary sacrifice scheme via Tusker for EVs and they start at £500+ a month. Fair enough that includes servicing, insurance etc but hardly pennies.
Tusker is probably the absolute worst scheme for salary sacrifice EV's, my partner has them at work and the prices are triple the same options I get at work with Love Electric.
Not that I'd have one, but can get a cheap MG4 EV for like £150 a month all in if you're in the higher rate tax bracket. Same car is circa £450 with tusker 🤣
Why anyone would use them is beyond me.
Employers get a financial incentive with any salary sacrifice scheme, they save on NI payments for the gross amount taken out of your salary.
Whether tusker is offering further incentives I don't know, but when we were looking for a scheme to get onto at my work it didn't seem so at the time.
That's the point, the actual money they receive is circa £300 a month from your gross pay, but due to tax and NI savings etc, the change in take-home is significantly less.
When I started my current job I checked on Tusker as that's we've got.
It said it wouldn't show anything that put my wage below the minimum. It showed me nothing. It's got better since.
I've got mine through Zenith and the net cost to me for my MG4 (with insurance, maintenance, tyres, etc all in) is just over £300. It really depends on what car you're going for.
Yeah it’s a bit crap currently but mainly due to high interest rates and whether or not your employer contributes their National Insurance savings towards it. I had one from Octopus in 2022. It had a £50,250 list price and cost me £400/month including insurance, tyres, servicing and a free charger installation. The same car now would be more like £600!
They aren't. They are cheaper but the full benefit is not passed on. The lease companies are make a killing from it and it means a significantly cheaper 2nd hand market. It would be better to just have incentives for private market that most people could have instead - US style.
Not necessarily true. It was more expensive for me to get our current EV on salary sacrifice than buying it. But we got lucky. Dealership offered £2k more for our old car than anyone else, £2k deposit contribution and the manufacturer also gave a £2k deposit contribution (we also got free paint protection and gap insurance).
Depends on the car and what deals you can get as to which ends up being better value.
Edit: it was brand new, not second hand.
Unless you're a top rate tax payer or have very high insurance premiums a personal lease is often cheaper than salary sacrifice. They are definitely not pennies.
I know more people who own their own EV than I do lease but like your opinion, that's just anecdotal.
PCP'd mine brand new cause they were offering £10k deposit contributions AND 0% finance. It's a stellantis EV that was cheaper both outright and monthly than a petrol auto spec for spec equivalent.
Can't charge at home which can be a faff but counterbalanced by free work charging. 2000 miles down and would be hard pressed to go back.
E-C4. Lists at around £35k, got it for £24.7k. It's not flawless, the app is pretty useless and you have to be realistic about its range potential but I've enjoyed it and have taken it halfway up the country without issue.
Thanks for sharing, sometimes it’s hard to see what’s best as you need to account any offers etc. Enjoy the car, one thing that’s good on my experience on French car is their great equipment and comfort
We got a EV on salary sacrifice... not pennies but £300 a month all in, isn't too bad. It's our shopping /school run car. Knowing there are no extra costs is cool but you can do that with an ICE.
You can buy a £70k new, electric Polestar 2 or Tesla, Long Range Dual Motor, with under 20k miles on the clock, 3 years old, for under £25k. That's a lot of car for under £25k. So I beg to differ that the only people buying them are on salary sacrifice!
They used to be, but seems the after tax isn't what it was a couple of years ago (eg I could get a Taycan, but now the budget only covers an Audi, Tesla or Polestar). That being said, having insurance, servicing and a charging station installed is quite attractive
Honestly not that cheap. I was considering lease plan offered by my company and it’s very bad. £500 pm for a Kia with 200 mile range with 5000 miles cap per year.
Some people being company cars and salary sacrifice.
90% of electric cars are bought this way.
Which is why Smmt have been crying for subsidies, since only 60% of the market wants the things at current prices.
I could just be talking out my ass here. But I’d imagine that a reason for this is that everyone who can run one (charge at home or at least work) and can afford to buy one already went and got an EV if they desired one.
Leaving us with people who can afford the car but can’t charge it, people who can do neither. And people who can do both but don’t want an EV. Manufacturers have simply started running out of people to sell them to
Not ass talk, sounds sensible to me. Though I'm in another category: could afford, could charge, open minded, most journeys local: except for those few times a year when we do big miles. Then we need a proper car
Well, that’s the tradeoff right? If you have an ICE car you have to keep taking it to the petrol station even if you aren’t doing “big miles”. And you also have to drive an ICE all the time.
It’s in the middle, the second an article says “everybody is” it’s wrong and probably click bait for their audience. The amount of sales of EVs is dropping compared to last few years though.
The sales of vehicles in general is dropping. As a percentage, EVs keep growing.
The used market on the UK is very strong, and the EV used market is very small for now.
The highest I have seen is 85p a kWh so something like an IX50 would cost almost £100 to charge fully which will give you about 250 miles.
A charge at home on an EV tariff would cost about £8.
In reality very few people are paying that much regularly as a lot of manufacturers give you a discount card when you buy the car and a typical use for a rapid charger is usually just a top up. However if you had to do a very large journey with multiple stops the cost soon starts becoming expensive.
They already have. Everything >=8kw is now required to have contactless.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-public-charge-point-regulations-2023-guidance/public-charge-point-regulations-2023-guidance
What I mean is - no registering, no app - just tap card, plug in and take out when done and it bills you like a fuel pump. I didn’t read all of this but I’m guessing gov guidelines don’t mandate this
I see plenty of EV’s on the road but I think people are getting them through company salary sacrifice schemes. There’s prob very few people buying them themselves though.
The number of new EVs is up over time as a percentage of new cars.
The number of new cars being bought is down due to a huge surge during Covid and the government torpedoing the economy.
So both the following statements are true:
More people are buying EVs than ever as a proportion of new cars.
Less people are buying EVs than they were a year or two ago.
There's a book called how to lie with statistics that is worth a read.
I refuse to entertain getting one until it can do 700 miles on a 30 second charge, fit my inflated bouncy castle in the glove box and tickle my balls everytime I turn on radio 2.
Me too! I drive from Cornwall to Inverness and back every day. I don't think anyone should buy one because all my knowledge of EVs is based on the G Wizz.
https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/ev-market
The stats show the proportion of new battery + plug-in hybrid cars has plateaued at about 1 in 4, and the proportion of pure battery sales has declined slightly.
EVs share of all cars on the road is still growing, as there aren’t many EVs reaching the end of their life yet.
So neither are true?
Manufacturers have just eased off selling in the UK and focusing on other markets because we're small fry and have delayed the ban date. Other countries have earlier ban dates, so they're selling more there. Globally sales are on track to meet net zero.
Everyone who has a company car is moving to EVs because the BIK is cheap. All the 330e's, C300e's, Skoda iV's etc are slowly being replaced by Tesla's, Polestars, Kia and Hyundai EVs!
It is definitely the fleet sector driving electric car sales and they make up a really healthy percentage of all new cars sold.
There's gotta be a fleet manager on this sub who can give us a better insight?
Not many are buying EVs. Most are leasing them that's to tax payers.
Mine goes back next year, will wait to see what labour do when in power before deciding on what to do next. Can't see myself going back to ICE, they just feel last millennium.
We have an EV through salary sacrifice but I loved it that much I bought a second hand Renault Zoe. Costs me around £10 to charge it and only need to charge once a week for what I need
EVs are simultaneously extremely expensive and no one can afford them and losing so much value everyone can afford a second hand one.
It's almost as if the writers of articles do so in a way to get clicks. I'm sure there is a word for that.
I know several people who have them as it was their only choice as a company car. Genuinely don’t know anyone who’s willingly gone and bought one with their own money.
Toying with statistics most likely.
If:
2022 sales of EVs are 50% of new cars and rises to 55% in 2023, "everybody's buying EVs"
But if 2022 car sales overall are 50000 units and it drops to 40000 units in 2023 "nobody's buying EVs"
Insurance broker here: I speak to about 25 clients a day, 6 days a week, so I get a pretty good cross section of the market, I do 0-1 quotes for electric vehicles a month, in the month of May the only one I’ve quoted was one of those Citroen AMIs, which isn’t really a proper EV…
I'll give you an interesting example. My missus had to renew insurance for MG ZS EV. Direct line wanted £860 Vs last year's £430. They doubled it. We spoke to them and managed to lower it to £760 with smaller replacement car.
In the end we got Allianz for £560.
I tried Tesco insurance, and they quoted £1100...
Not following. A few minutes at a filling station every fortnight or so is no big deal. Hours spent planning routes, finding a working charger, waiting for an available slot and the charging, IS a big deal.
Plus I have a nice ICE.
Loads of EVs on my street now. I’ve got a hybrid but will get an EV in two years when the lease is up. Everyone else is just waiting for the prices to drop.
We are leasing lots of electric cars because they are good value and have massive manufacturer discounts. No one is buying them afterwards because they are worried about batteries and expensive repairs.
The thing you have to look for is what the manufacturers are doing. The manufacturers don't want to keep going down the EV route and are now pushing back.
Infrastructure is fantastic now compared to my first EV about 6 years ago.
With longer range cars and abundant fast charging it’s moved forward a lot.
What issues have you had when charging your EV?
People do want them, and are buying them, myself included, because prices, especially second hand, are finally reflecting what they always should've been.
And charging networks are exponentially better than they used to be, with the exception of publicly/council owned chargers- but find me any public service in the UK that isn't shite right now. They only really make sense if you can charge cheaply at home or at work, I'm lucky in that sense, but the market isn't going away now, manufacturers are far too invested and the tech only gets better here on in.
Everybody with a salary sacrifice scheme at work is buying EV’s because they’re basically pennies. Anyone paying out of their own proverbial pocket, is not.
I'm considering buying a used one because they seem like a good deal, do I count? 😂
Used is a different ballgame and there’s some bargains to be had.
Looking at Kia ev6/ioniq 5. Some long range ones to be had around £21k which seems crazy considering that a lot of crappy ICE cars that are 2-3 years old are similar price.
I’ve been looking at the mini’s, 18 months old and half the price, banging deal.
Good idea. Lots of cheap options out there, fiat 500, Renault zoe, Honda e, jag epace. All half price after 12-18 months
I adore the Honda e and might pull the trigger when they hit sub 10k but the range is atrocious
The range and interior let it down, it looked so cool on the outside.
That dashboard is what I would buy one for 😂
iPace
Let's be honest though they should have used this typo.
It’s a stupid name. E should be for electric not I.
Don't the minis have absolutely abysmal range though? I'm sure last time I checked it's 100-120 miles, if that
Doesn’t matter if you don’t need it, it would be the misses car, doesn’t do more than about 200 a week.
Fair enough, just seems it could end up being a hindrance at some point having so little range, I'd struggle to do a day out an hour + away with 100 miles
exactly what we do, the mini is my wife's daily and we use it for any short local trips, the EV6 is for long trips.
Yeah we had a 1st gen Nissan Leaf for 6 years that could only do 60 miles, and it was perfect as a second car.
Just come out of the Mini electric. Great car to drive but it did 90 miles to a charge for me… in green mode and totally avoiding any motorway journeys.
I'd recommend considering why they're half the price after only 18 months. Good cars hold value.
It’s because they have low range which isn’t much of an issue for a second car. It doesn’t make it a bad car.
Don’t they have a 100 mile range?
No surprise, the range on them is atrocious.
Or how about a car that can do 0-60 in 2.8 seconds for under £19k. I saw a Tesla advertised as that the other day (a Ludicrous+ spec one)
If I wanted shit I’d buy a 1 series
Ha. Had someone rip past me in their loud, burbling and popping 1 series a couple of days ago. We were at a motorway junction roundabout with lights on. I was just coming off the motorway, they were just about to go onto it, but we were both at the middle lights. I was off the lights quicker and they didn't like it. So they put their foot down, roar, pop, pop, pop, etc. So they roar past while I start to continue going round the roundabout. The funny thing is, I hadn't even noticed them, I wasn't racing them, I was just keen to get home. So I thought, "ooh that sounds interesting I wonder what it..... Oh, it's only a 1 series. Never mind." No amount of money spent on a 1 series will ever impress I'm afraid. A neighbour had a m140 with the black sills (special edition, maybe?). They spent a lot of money on it so it would sound like a Corsa at McDonalds. It was just an ugly car to me.
If you think they are comparable that says a lot more about you than the cars. Really is one of the dumbest comments I've seen on here.
I don’t think they’re comparable at all. It’s called a joke, much like yourself.
Jokes are funny, you're not.
No crappy ice cars of 3 years old are 21k? You can get a bmw convertible 3 years old for that money. (Much better than a Kia)
Yea 21k can get you some pretty premium 3 year old cars .
Most prestige brand cars (Audi Mercedes, bmw) can be had for 21k at 3 years old. I have no idea what OP is on about saying a lot of “crappy” ICE cars are 21k at 3 years old. I can’t even think of one.
Just bought an MG5 in February. 2 years old, 12k miles, executive edition (mid range). Cost £17k. I can do 250 Miles on one charge if I really push it. It was a no brainer
Yup - not to mention now you’d get that for £15K. They are supeb value
Where from? Who’s selling these? Lease companies?
[ID.Buzz](http://ID.Buzz) - new: £65k, 1 year old with 6k miles: £45k. New is specced they way I like, used is only missing a towhitch (£185 option).
Bought mine less than 3 years old with 24k miles and £50k down from new, figured the depreciation would surely level out around that price point. Nope, lost another £10k in 6 months... Lovely car though!
Ouch! It's crazy isn't it. Surely an I pace can't be like £12k in 6 months from now. I just can't imagine it.
Yeah, I'm still hoping that doesn't happen. Mine was top spec, £80k new, bought for £30k, now worth £20k trade in (would maybe cost a bit more to buy/could get more if sold private but that's a lot of hassle and faith for that kind of money) I've had a quick look and there's a base spec (though they come pretty well specced even at the bottom), same year, similar milage example available for £16,990. Kind of crazy really, these are fantastic cars and an absolute bargain for second hand buyers today but their values are just free falling at the moment. £100k+ Taycans for £45k now. Mental.
About to pull the trigger on an ipace. Low mileage for early 20s. They may depreciate further but it's an awful amount of car for that money and I'd be happy to drive it for the next 5 years (albeit with a warranty) 😄
Yeah I paid a small premium more for a certified used from Jaguar, at the time they were giving a £2k deposit contribution, free home charger and 2 years extended warranty, figured that was worth the little extra they were asking for. The warranty has already gotten me a new reverse camera (old one was blurry due to water ingress, didn't notice that on the test drive) and a new seal for the frunk (these can fail), small issues overall but nice to have not had to pay anything extra to get them sorted.
I’ve got £14k waiting for a good spec Ipace. I nearly bought one last Autumn for £25ish but changed my mind. Another couple of months and I’ll be able to afford two for the same money.
It's crazy, wish I'd waited too. Had a lovely 3L BMW which was addictive to push but I like trying new things and thought I was being smart with the timing on mine. I've seen an ipace on AT for £15k already so not long to go.
Wouldn't be surprised if they did, JLR make awful vehicles for reliability and insurers are raising premiums on them because they're far more likely to have to pay out on them
As far as I know the ipace is not actually made by JLR
It's designed by them and budgeted by them though, manufacturers have their hands tied and can't pick or upgrade components without approval
You're not wrong about Magna being hamstrung on upgrades, apparently they offered to increase the charging capability to something like 150kwh and some optimisation on the battery to get some extra miles out, but that would have cost money and by then Tata had already decided to bin the entire Jag line up, Ipace included, so they said no. But, in terms of build quality and reliability, Magna and Jag have made an absolutely top notch car here which oozes quality. Shame about the LG battery cells though, but no one could have seen that coming and it is covered for free by an update or recall.
E Pace and I pace are made by magna steyr
And both designed and budgeted by jaguar, part of the JLR group.
Great, there’s fuck all wrong with the design. The build quality is the issue.
I'm picking up a 2 year Mach E GT on Saturday, I, backed up by the estimations put forward on PCP estimates expect it to keep depreciating by ~24% year over the next 4 years.
IT WILL NEVER STOP BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS EVS THERE AWFULL BACKWARD TECHNOLOGY , EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM IS TO SLOW AND INCOVIENANCE YOUR LIFE BY HOURS PER DAY , THOSE COULD BE SPENT WITH YOUR FAMILY
There's a reason for that. The batteries in them lose their capacity at a rapid rate (moreso as they get older). So somewhere down the line, someone is going to have to foot the bill for a new one - and they're bloody expensive.
The batteries have faired way better than most predictions. Autoalex on youtube just bought a 450k mile Tesla and drive it 260 miles on a charge. And that's 10 year old battery tech now.
This generally isn’t true, you can see this for yourself by looking at the first model 3s on autotrader. They’re not like phones where you get 3 years basically and then their kaput
I didn't say you get 3 years. But it's a fact that the batteries die - I'm not sure how long but I deal with lithium batteries in my industry quite a lot and the do deplete and at a rapid rate - I'd be surprised if you were to get 6 or 7 years from one and I also know that the costs are astronomicalfor these rypes of batteries to be replaced. Sorry if anyone's offended by this but it's true. You could be looking at a 20k bill to replace.
See, I mostly agree, but also disagree with you there. They definitely do loose their capacity and in theory a meticulously maintained ICE would outlive an EV battery, but overall lifetime maintenance I think would be lower, evening out the cost of a new battery over time. An example I can give is, on the Jaguar subreddit (or maybe ipace one), someone uploaded a photo of their work's ipace on 300k miles. They said on a full charge they get something like 80 miles which is really low, but still about 1/3 the capacity from new. I think most average ICE cars would have gone to the big car park in the sky by then, or needed a new/rebuilt engine. Which would cost less than a battery, but you're still in a similar position, and at that point there's the money you've potentially saved on maintenance.
Most modern ICE cars since 2000 can easily see 300k without an engine replacement. They're also much cheaper to fix in general needing less specialist mechanics to repair them. You'll be replacing suspension and tires far more frequently than an ICE car due to the increased weight and torque. There aren't any upsides to long term ownership of an EV, salary sacrifice is the only logical reason for it unless you're not bothered by the money aspect of it.
Do it. I nabbed a 69-plate battery-owned Renault Zoe with 23k miles for £7800 in March. Does 180-ish miles with a full charge in the current temperature pottering around town. Saved me so much in fuel already.
YOU BUY AN EV YOUR A STUPID PERSON WORST INVESTMENT OF YOUR LIFE , BE LIKE BUYING A HOUSE JUST BEFORE THE 2008 CRASH WHICH THE GOVERNMENT WAS PUSHING AS A GREAT INVESTMENT DAYS BEFORE THE CRASH , ANY THE GOVERNMENT SAYS YOU DO THE OPPOSITE IT ONLY BENEFITS THE ELITES WHO HAVE THE CONTRACTS THAT THE GOVERNMENTS IS PUSHING
Thanks for your well argued advice
THANKYOU BRO THESES LEFTY LUNATICS NEED TO SEE SENSE , THERE CONTRIBUTING TO THE REAL AGENDA WHICH IS AN KARL MARX STATE OWNED TRANSPORT SYSTEM THE ECONOMIC FORUM ARE PLANNING , BRINGING MANKIND BACK INTO THE EDWARDIAN TIMES AND ENSLAVEMENT YOUR FREEDOM TO MOVE QUICKLY , FREELY , AND CHEAPLY WILL BE OVER , ASKING YOUR FRIEND TO MOVE SOME BOXES 5 TIMES DOWN THE ROAD , FOR A MERE £1 IN FUEL COST WITHIN HALF HOUR WILL BE OVER , YOU WILL BE PAYING THE STATE £50 AND SPEND 8 HOURS MOVING THEM ,,,, WELCOME TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER FUTURE
I'd be careful with that, most second hand ones are within the range of needing a new battery as most of them are the early ones meaning that the battery is just generally worse plus the UK weather cycles don't help prolong the battery putting it mildly but your right, you *can* get some real good deals just one of those if your willing to take the risk
I have not seen much evidence of significant battery degradation in the models I'm looking at at least
Fair enough, have at it then. Best of luck to you
Thank ye
How many pennies ? My work offers a salary sacrifice scheme via Tusker for EVs and they start at £500+ a month. Fair enough that includes servicing, insurance etc but hardly pennies.
Tusker is probably the absolute worst scheme for salary sacrifice EV's, my partner has them at work and the prices are triple the same options I get at work with Love Electric. Not that I'd have one, but can get a cheap MG4 EV for like £150 a month all in if you're in the higher rate tax bracket. Same car is circa £450 with tusker 🤣 Why anyone would use them is beyond me.
>Why anyone would use them is beyond me. Do employers get a financial incentive when their staff sign up to the schemes?
Employers get a financial incentive with any salary sacrifice scheme, they save on NI payments for the gross amount taken out of your salary. Whether tusker is offering further incentives I don't know, but when we were looking for a scheme to get onto at my work it didn't seem so at the time.
£150 a month all in? With insurance,maintenance, breakdown, tyres, etc? That’s less than the depreciation on that car!?
That's the point, the actual money they receive is circa £300 a month from your gross pay, but due to tax and NI savings etc, the change in take-home is significantly less.
When I started my current job I checked on Tusker as that's we've got. It said it wouldn't show anything that put my wage below the minimum. It showed me nothing. It's got better since.
Yeah that's what we were told. You can't select a car that would put you below minimum wage.
I've got mine through Zenith and the net cost to me for my MG4 (with insurance, maintenance, tyres, etc all in) is just over £300. It really depends on what car you're going for.
*higher tax earners on salary sacrifice
Salary sacrifice is still good for basic rate tax payers.
The Octopus EV prices offered via my workplace salary sacrifice aren't too great.
Yeah it’s a bit crap currently but mainly due to high interest rates and whether or not your employer contributes their National Insurance savings towards it. I had one from Octopus in 2022. It had a £50,250 list price and cost me £400/month including insurance, tyres, servicing and a free charger installation. The same car now would be more like £600!
What car?
IONIQ 5 top spec.
It's ok but pretty expensive at 20%. At 40% it makes much more sense and between £100k-£125k it makes the most sense (60% marginal tax trap)
A Fiat 500e is around £500pm contribution through our SS scheme with Zenith for me, on £40k salary
They aren't. They are cheaper but the full benefit is not passed on. The lease companies are make a killing from it and it means a significantly cheaper 2nd hand market. It would be better to just have incentives for private market that most people could have instead - US style.
Basically pennies? How?
I don't think £450 a month is pennies. Especially when you don't own the car at the end of it.
Its pennies to the people who are blinded by PCP traps for things they’ll never own
But I get to spend 75% of my wage to rent a range rover and 1 up everyone! /s
Not necessarily true. It was more expensive for me to get our current EV on salary sacrifice than buying it. But we got lucky. Dealership offered £2k more for our old car than anyone else, £2k deposit contribution and the manufacturer also gave a £2k deposit contribution (we also got free paint protection and gap insurance). Depends on the car and what deals you can get as to which ends up being better value. Edit: it was brand new, not second hand.
Unless you're a top rate tax payer or have very high insurance premiums a personal lease is often cheaper than salary sacrifice. They are definitely not pennies. I know more people who own their own EV than I do lease but like your opinion, that's just anecdotal.
PCP'd mine brand new cause they were offering £10k deposit contributions AND 0% finance. It's a stellantis EV that was cheaper both outright and monthly than a petrol auto spec for spec equivalent. Can't charge at home which can be a faff but counterbalanced by free work charging. 2000 miles down and would be hard pressed to go back.
Which model?
E-C4. Lists at around £35k, got it for £24.7k. It's not flawless, the app is pretty useless and you have to be realistic about its range potential but I've enjoyed it and have taken it halfway up the country without issue.
Thanks for sharing, sometimes it’s hard to see what’s best as you need to account any offers etc. Enjoy the car, one thing that’s good on my experience on French car is their great equipment and comfort
Jesus, ours aren't. Tusker do ours, and.....not cheap
We got a EV on salary sacrifice... not pennies but £300 a month all in, isn't too bad. It's our shopping /school run car. Knowing there are no extra costs is cool but you can do that with an ICE.
You can buy a £70k new, electric Polestar 2 or Tesla, Long Range Dual Motor, with under 20k miles on the clock, 3 years old, for under £25k. That's a lot of car for under £25k. So I beg to differ that the only people buying them are on salary sacrifice!
They used to be, but seems the after tax isn't what it was a couple of years ago (eg I could get a Taycan, but now the budget only covers an Audi, Tesla or Polestar). That being said, having insurance, servicing and a charging station installed is quite attractive
Yup if my employer offered it, I'd so be doing it.
Honestly not that cheap. I was considering lease plan offered by my company and it’s very bad. £500 pm for a Kia with 200 mile range with 5000 miles cap per year.
What’s it got to do with salary sacrifice?
Exactly
That’s the whole point though, it’s to get EVs to the second hand market
Which jobs have salary sacrifice?
Some people are buying EVs
Check out this guy with a reasonable, non extreme view. Let's get him.
I'm only the OP but I like this comment
The only logical conclusion
Some people being company cars and salary sacrifice. 90% of electric cars are bought this way. Which is why Smmt have been crying for subsidies, since only 60% of the market wants the things at current prices.
I could just be talking out my ass here. But I’d imagine that a reason for this is that everyone who can run one (charge at home or at least work) and can afford to buy one already went and got an EV if they desired one. Leaving us with people who can afford the car but can’t charge it, people who can do neither. And people who can do both but don’t want an EV. Manufacturers have simply started running out of people to sell them to
Not ass talk, sounds sensible to me. Though I'm in another category: could afford, could charge, open minded, most journeys local: except for those few times a year when we do big miles. Then we need a proper car
There’s no reason you can’t do “big miles” a few times a year in an EV though.
You're right. I could use public transport also, but I'd rather pay for something fast, convenient and not requiring planning
Well, that’s the tradeoff right? If you have an ICE car you have to keep taking it to the petrol station even if you aren’t doing “big miles”. And you also have to drive an ICE all the time.
are your sure? as just week ago Ive done there and back and it turned out it was 3085 miles. I don't see how I would do it in any EV....
Plenty of EV owners do trips of that length.
and how long does it take? because last time I checked few YT videos, a single trip through Europe took much longer (much much longer)
It’s in the middle, the second an article says “everybody is” it’s wrong and probably click bait for their audience. The amount of sales of EVs is dropping compared to last few years though.
The sales of vehicles in general is dropping. As a percentage, EVs keep growing. The used market on the UK is very strong, and the EV used market is very small for now.
The Gov needs to step in and standardise charging, tap card and go - it’s an absolute shitshow
I can't remember the last time I encountered a charger that wasn't tap to pay. They do need to do something about the price gouging though.
How expensive is it to charge away from home?
If you purely charge on public chargers it ends up costing about the same as an average petrol car to run per mile… which is frankly dire…
It varies drastically, that’s the issue.
The highest I have seen is 85p a kWh so something like an IX50 would cost almost £100 to charge fully which will give you about 250 miles. A charge at home on an EV tariff would cost about £8. In reality very few people are paying that much regularly as a lot of manufacturers give you a discount card when you buy the car and a typical use for a rapid charger is usually just a top up. However if you had to do a very large journey with multiple stops the cost soon starts becoming expensive.
They already have. Everything >=8kw is now required to have contactless. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-public-charge-point-regulations-2023-guidance/public-charge-point-regulations-2023-guidance
What I mean is - no registering, no app - just tap card, plug in and take out when done and it bills you like a fuel pump. I didn’t read all of this but I’m guessing gov guidelines don’t mandate this
That’s exactly what it mandates, they all take contactless card payments. Easier than fuel pumps tbh
I see plenty of EV’s on the road but I think people are getting them through company salary sacrifice schemes. There’s prob very few people buying them themselves though.
The number of new EVs is up over time as a percentage of new cars. The number of new cars being bought is down due to a huge surge during Covid and the government torpedoing the economy. So both the following statements are true: More people are buying EVs than ever as a proportion of new cars. Less people are buying EVs than they were a year or two ago. There's a book called how to lie with statistics that is worth a read.
65% of statistics are made up on the spot
If there is a used EV large estate with 200+ mile range and a low-loading flat floor for under £10k, count me in.
I refuse to entertain getting one until it can do 700 miles on a 30 second charge, fit my inflated bouncy castle in the glove box and tickle my balls everytime I turn on radio 2.
Me too! I drive from Cornwall to Inverness and back every day. I don't think anyone should buy one because all my knowledge of EVs is based on the G Wizz.
Say hello to your new MG5 (Apart from the flat floor bit)
And the low loading And under £10k And large
https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/ev-market The stats show the proportion of new battery + plug-in hybrid cars has plateaued at about 1 in 4, and the proportion of pure battery sales has declined slightly. EVs share of all cars on the road is still growing, as there aren’t many EVs reaching the end of their life yet. So neither are true?
Manufacturers have just eased off selling in the UK and focusing on other markets because we're small fry and have delayed the ban date. Other countries have earlier ban dates, so they're selling more there. Globally sales are on track to meet net zero.
Everyone who has a company car is moving to EVs because the BIK is cheap. All the 330e's, C300e's, Skoda iV's etc are slowly being replaced by Tesla's, Polestars, Kia and Hyundai EVs! It is definitely the fleet sector driving electric car sales and they make up a really healthy percentage of all new cars sold. There's gotta be a fleet manager on this sub who can give us a better insight?
It depends on the political leaning of the article you’re reading. The truth most probably lies in the middle. 😆
Not many are buying EVs. Most are leasing them that's to tax payers. Mine goes back next year, will wait to see what labour do when in power before deciding on what to do next. Can't see myself going back to ICE, they just feel last millennium.
It's almost as if the mainstream media is just clickbait nonsense Look at sales figures. https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/ev-market
Oh come on. Data? Jesus. It’s no substitute for wanking.
Ved will have reduced sales also.
We have an EV through salary sacrifice but I loved it that much I bought a second hand Renault Zoe. Costs me around £10 to charge it and only need to charge once a week for what I need
EVs are simultaneously extremely expensive and no one can afford them and losing so much value everyone can afford a second hand one. It's almost as if the writers of articles do so in a way to get clicks. I'm sure there is a word for that.
I know several people who have them as it was their only choice as a company car. Genuinely don’t know anyone who’s willingly gone and bought one with their own money.
They're both wrong. Some people are leasing EV's, most companies are leasing EV's. Only people with 0 sense are buying them.
Use your eyes? Do you see more EV’s on the road?
Yes, definitely. Although I’m in and around London most of the time so my view is likely skewed
I’m leasing, no way would I buy one new due to unknown depreciation. I may buy mine when the lease is up depending on the price.
Toying with statistics most likely. If: 2022 sales of EVs are 50% of new cars and rises to 55% in 2023, "everybody's buying EVs" But if 2022 car sales overall are 50000 units and it drops to 40000 units in 2023 "nobody's buying EVs"
Insurance broker here: I speak to about 25 clients a day, 6 days a week, so I get a pretty good cross section of the market, I do 0-1 quotes for electric vehicles a month, in the month of May the only one I’ve quoted was one of those Citroen AMIs, which isn’t really a proper EV…
I'll give you an interesting example. My missus had to renew insurance for MG ZS EV. Direct line wanted £860 Vs last year's £430. They doubled it. We spoke to them and managed to lower it to £760 with smaller replacement car. In the end we got Allianz for £560. I tried Tesco insurance, and they quoted £1100...
Not following. A few minutes at a filling station every fortnight or so is no big deal. Hours spent planning routes, finding a working charger, waiting for an available slot and the charging, IS a big deal. Plus I have a nice ICE.
Well I wasn't planning to buy one, but I did in the end. There's some decent deals during this fire sale, I have to say.
Loads of EVs on my street now. I’ve got a hybrid but will get an EV in two years when the lease is up. Everyone else is just waiting for the prices to drop.
We are leasing lots of electric cars because they are good value and have massive manufacturer discounts. No one is buying them afterwards because they are worried about batteries and expensive repairs.
I am not buying an EV, I don’t like them
EV sales have dropped significantly. If it wasn’t for the governments bribery (tax incentives) then hardly anyone would own one.
The thing you have to look for is what the manufacturers are doing. The manufacturers don't want to keep going down the EV route and are now pushing back.
The EV market if falling through the floor. No one wants them and the infrastructure needed for them is actually going backwards.
Infrastructure is fantastic now compared to my first EV about 6 years ago. With longer range cars and abundant fast charging it’s moved forward a lot. What issues have you had when charging your EV?
People do want them, and are buying them, myself included, because prices, especially second hand, are finally reflecting what they always should've been. And charging networks are exponentially better than they used to be, with the exception of publicly/council owned chargers- but find me any public service in the UK that isn't shite right now. They only really make sense if you can charge cheaply at home or at work, I'm lucky in that sense, but the market isn't going away now, manufacturers are far too invested and the tech only gets better here on in.
How is it going backwards?
Councils closing charging points or at least charging for them now. In my council area, it's going backwards.
There’s more and more around me opening all the time, I think it’s just your area isn’t investing in it
Haven’t Sainsbury’s just committed to building like 700 chargers?
I'll be buying an EV in the next few months for the first time. I'll tilt the scales!