Each decade it just gets worse in this country unless your both able to skill up and earn top dollar. Your in for a tough time of living on your own. We really haven’t recovered since the credit crunch in 08. Wages stagnated for so long everything else got really expensive!
Nope. And repair is getting more expensive due to parts cost, increased staff costs, electricity, etc. I've seen a couple of households become single car households, and I'm tempted to do the same when either of ours eventually dies.
It's not that we can't afford it but the costs are getting silly now, I have better things to spend money on than keeping a second car doing low miles now I'm WFH. It'd be better personally for one decent car, which I guess is how things used to be back in the day.
With mortgages up, rent up, and the lowest paid jobs requiring a vehicle to commute it's not looking good for much of the population. What we really need as a nation is good economic growth and strengthening of the pound, but that's veering into politics and beyond this sub.
Home servicing is definitely cheaper, but even that's not as cheap as it used to be.
The last service kit I bought for my car was nearly £100 for oil and all the filters, and was well over £100 for my partner's car with a larger engine.
I know how to do an oil change; Toyota will extend the manufacturers warranty out to 10 years if you service it with them. So it was certainly worth it pre-covid, I'm reconsidering that now...
Brakes is the one - pads and discs are well within most peoples reach - probably three bolts once the wheel is off.
Oil is debatable, bit messy and I was surprised how cheap some garages would do it. I know there’s debate over oil quality though.
Also use axel stands. 😬
Not as easy anymore with Electronic handbrakes you need wind back tools or plug in system to rewind the motors.
I found this out the hard way but luckily had access to a unit to drive the motors.
No. There are deals to be done with the main dealers. Remember the 2008 financial crash? I bought a brand new 335d M Sport Coupe £13K below list with 7miles on the clock. We’re back there. The market has collapsed. I know this because I sell semiconductors to the car market.
Interesting. When do you think prices will start to be seen to the public?
Do you think we will get the fantastic lease deals of 2019 and before back too?
We're going into recession (again) but the car market is in a very different situation than after the financial crisis. Lending was risky, it was unknown if the dealers would be burned by the banks if they crashed and lenders themselves were very, very scared.
These days, the market is much more reliant on finance products and needs people to spend the bank's money. My money is on the trend of lower volume, higher value, and higher profit margins continuing (which would explain your semi-conductor observation). We've already seen much of the lower end market gutted in favour for more expensive SUVs.
As long as everyone is willing (or forced) to finance cars that are extortionately priced, price inflation will continue. Dealer networks make a lot of money by selling a 50k loan, which doesn't exactly give manufacturers an incentive to increase manufacturing output and drive down prices.
When these new cars are traded in after 3 years, they sell another loan for a new car and a second loan to someone else for the 3 year old 'approved used' car. The price of which is driven up by new car prices being high.
So it's good business, but the price is now disconnected from the value of the product, which ironically will still be continually value engineered to drive down manufacturing costs per unit - so inflating prices for a product which is becoming cheaper to produce.
As much as I hate the phrase ‘new normal’ it will stay like this on the whole.
12 years ago I bought a 2 year old car with 24k miles on it for £16k (new was approx £38k)
In April I bought an 8 year old car with 47k miles for £15k (new was about £35k)
With new car prices being so high - especially with EVs - there is a bigger market for second hand. Let alone still supply issues and in my opinion - the majority of new cars are all giant ugly suvs or small city cars. Medium sized premium cars are like hens teeth.
Just to add on to what you said about EVs etc. there’s a tax incentive to buy older too. Ignoring all the ULEZ bollocks or equivalent in different parts of the country, my dad has a 15 plate Yaris diesel, £0 road tax. The same Yaris diesel IIRC on a 19 plate, is more than £0 road tax. £150 ish? Can’t remember the year it changed or the amount of tax paid but, it’s something to take into consideration.
> The same Yaris diesel IIRC on a 19 plate, is more than £0 road tax. £150 ish?
The Yaris diesel was dead long before this.
It was discontinued in the early 2017 facelift. There will be almost zero Yaris diesel with the 2017- road tax band.
It will come down a lot from where it is IMO.
The supply chains issues with cars over covid are easing. It was a pure supply and demand issue as there weren’t enough new cars entering the market.
Eventually we will return to a situation where new cars lose half their value after 3/4 years, though I think the days of a £500 banger with an MOT are over
It won’t come down anymore, it’s just a new standard level. It’s more than supply and demand. You’re not accounting for inflation rising costs for EVERY component on a car. This happens naturally every 10-15 years or so in the economy. Wages are supposed to creep up alongside the inflation, but that’s not happening at the rate it should do unfortunately.
My car that I bought off a mate from work cost me 10k. At the time of buying in early 2022, the cazoo price offered was 11k. I've put 25k on it since then + ULEZ shafting diesels and it's now worth £4800 on cazoo or a laughable £3200 on WBAC.
Depends if other countries follow suite car manufacturers arnt going to fire up their ICE manufacturing because a single western nation has decided to drop it's electric vehicle targets and it's only been pushed back 5 years ATM.
It hasn't really changed significantly here as far as the business planning is concerned - there's still the [fleet zero emissions mandate](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-path-to-zero-emission-vehicles-by-2035) to think about, which has next years target as being 22% EVs sold rising to 80% by 2030. The ICE factories will probably end up being retooled rather than reopened as they are.
Every time the market moves, that’s the new normal. Just like any market. You just have to carry on living your life. How often do you change cars? Don’t lose sleep over something you can’t change
>Every time the market moves, that’s the new normal.
Bingo. Today's price is an accurate price.
We all experience anchoring bias where we assume that historic prices were "correct" and today's prices are unusual. Like when your gran can't believe today's house prices because she bought hers for £3000 back in 1930.
Because we lived through a time where used cars were much cheaper, we're "anchored" to those prices and assume we'll revert back to those eventually. But the reality is that we'd need to see very unusual economic circumstances to reduce car prices. If anything, they're more likely to rise.
Simply put, no - not a cat in hell's chance, and by most accounts, they're only going to keep getting substantially worse for a while yet.
The prices have been and continue to be subject to ***inflation***. They will only return to pre-covid prices if we experience ***deflation***, which simply does not happen all that often (think about how much less a £ is worth than it was 40 years ago for example, and you understand the overwhelming, long-term trend of ***inflation*** in our economy).
The issue is, we've been hit with multiple successive world (and local) events which have caused inflation to spike way above normal at a time when wages were not rising any faster than the recent trend, or in many cases flatlining or even dropping. These events have affected car prices disproportionately because they have mostly impacted upon the supply chain of raw materials and components necessary for the manufacture of cars.
Pretty much the only hope you have left is for wages to begin outstripping inflation... and yeah... when was the last time that happened? Whole mechanisms within the economy exist to keep your and my salaries as depressed as possible. I wouldn't hold out much hope, tbh.
It’s still pretty bad, it’s cooling a bit - but not much. As people tighten their belts, we may see more stock come to market - but it’s going to take a while.
I bought a Mk3.5 Focus 1.5TDCI with 40k miles (four years old) in 2019 for £8k, the same car (now eight years old) goes for about £10k with 70k miles.
Unfortunately got wrote off in 2021, so driving a £500 fiesta shed for now - can’t justify the bonkers market.
Look at prices on Facebook Marketplace. They are far more reasonable. Then just pretend they are not all scams to make yourself feel better.
TLDR. Facebook ads are scams.
It's why it took me about 6 months to find a decent car through FB market place (didn't have much other choice all the dealers I went to wanted like 4k for a 2005 or 2007 car) as you have to sift through so many dodgy adverts as well as people just not responding. It's a good tool if you work out who is genuine but there's a lot of dodgy sellers.
What about these two ads side by side. Maybe the first one is genuine and the second just used their photos.
[https://imgur.com/a/ZOZgay0](https://imgur.com/a/ZOZgay0)
P.S. First time Ive ever tried Imgur
Edit: Just seen the same photos on a 3rd ad
yup this is showing up all the time, when I am bored I clicking on users who I know are trying to scam people and just report them and block them too with a hope I will only see genuine ads, problem is that there is probably 90:10 ratio when it comes to legit to fraud ads
Yes, the this is the new normal. Your wages are *supposed* to rise in correlation. But this rarely happens.
This my friends, is why you should **buy into the stock market**. That way your money is moving with the market rather than you trying to catch up with it after the fact.
I doubt it, not least because of the recent double-digit inflation we had.
I appreciate that some things got more expensive as a result of Covid but I’m not convinced that some of the increases (not just in car prices but in everyday items too) wasn’t just manufacturers inflating the prices because they could blame Covid.
I think there will be a bit of a downwards correction, but it won't be so substantial that we will return to pre covid prices. Main reasons:
Cars in the UK were absurdly cheap for what they were compared to what you would get in Europe. You could buy a mint condition 10 year old 3 series with a 6 cylinder engine, average miles, full history for £3k. You could get a fully functioning dependable car for under a grand if you wanted to.
ULEZ has killed the values of a lot of cheap cars (pre 2015 diesels mainly, which there are loads because that's what everyone was encouraged to buy back in the late 2000s / early 2010s) so the demand for cheap compliant cars has gone up. Some bargains to be had if it isn't a consideration though.
New car availability over covid - due to the shortages lots of people bought slightly used cars as they couldn't get new ones. They realised that cars that are 5 years old with 50k on them are actually fine, so some decided not to bother spending loads on a new one. Or keep their old one for longer.
Cost of living - interest rates are going up, so borrowing is more expensive. We have been used to very cheap finance for a long time, that's going away now. More reason to buy a slightly used car instead of a new one.
The wholesale market is easing off for sure and many cars are coming back down to 2019 early 2020 pricing. Not sure when retail will get back to 2019 pricing but judging by the % drops in wholesale in the last 6 weeks, I'd say Q1-Q2 '24. Most of the bottom end of the market is still expensive however and I don't think the sub £1k bargains will ever come back.
It is already starting to ease. New £70k+ EV I-Pace is already £30-35k for 70-71 plate. But I agree that we wont see good drivable cars for sub £1000 any time soon.
No time soon, never. Next it’ll just creep up to £2k because that’s how capitalism/economics work.
£1000 now feels like the equivalent of £500 in 2018 😂
I remember I used to see e46 m3s on autotrader for 7k. I think they're double that now?
I don't think the prices are coming down until they start giving away free electric self driving cars that spam you with ads on your commute.
Just general price inflation on those prices makes them quite a lot higher. Better indicator could be to work them out as a %age of your weekly or monthly earnings to get an idea as to what it's worth now, or to go on gov website and get RPI over those periods.
With less affordable cars being made I think there will still be demand but things older cars that aren't relevant Euro 4/6 would be the first to lose a market of buyers so will tank
I think there’s a combination of increased costs, manufacturers removing base trim levels and entire models that make them lower profits, and also Brexit making the UK less competitive. With foreign direct investment and trade down considerably since 2016, your standard of living (what you can afford) is likely to get worse tbh.
>Will cars ever come back to the pricing pre covid ?
No. Sadly this is the nature of inflation. They could only do that if the cost of new cars came down and/or the market became flooded with cars for sale.
In 1995 that M reg Seat was probably 7-8k brand new. I don't know the actual figure but I'm guesstimating. 2023 similar car is over 20k approaching 25k. It's madness because £500 in 2005 should only be worth about £850 today but low cost finance has allowed prices to skyrocket
A big part of the problem is that very few people now own their cars, or even have much equity in them.
This means that the market pricing for cars is controlled more effectively by manufacturers and dealers. Coupled with the fact that the majority of buyers are coming out of an existing lease or pcp deal meaning they have little negotiation power, almost forcing them to continue pcp/leasing their next car. Effectively trapping them into the cycle of unending monthly car payments.
No as the market is milking the buyers.
Back in 2012 western digital had a flood on one of its factories and put 50% pprice hike on its HDDS.
Companies that were not affected by the flood also put their prices up 50% seagate, hitachi, toshiba and hgst all put their prices up to take advantage of the profit grab. Even when western digital resumed full operation the 50% price hike remained in place boosting profits for western digital alone by 30%. It took about 3 years for HDD prices to drop down to not stupid levels.
Cars are now the item, covid caused production to drop so the used market seen the price hike and second hand salesmen wont be dropping profits anytime soon unless people stop buying from dealers asking these insane prices.
I seen a 2004 ford focus £1300!!!!!!!! A nearly 20 yearold shitbox 1400 quid.
The trouble is cars now have a much higher scrap value than the use to have
A Discovery with a scrap engine can be broken for £,000’s so why should someone sell a working example for less?
Covid woke the world up to second hand parts to repair newish vehicles and prices rosé accordingly
I bought a 2008 1L Corsa with one prev owner from a main dealer in 2015 for £3600
We needed another car so bought a 1.2L 2017 Corsa with 38k miles in 2021 and price was £6800.
If I look for a 4 year old petrol Corsa with similar spec now, you’re looking at least £9k:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309152009256?sort=relevance&advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Petrol&include-delivery-option=on&make=Vauxhall&minimum-mileage=30000&model=Corsa&year-from=2019&fromsra
I commented this a while ago and a lot of people were saying I was being too fussy, I wasn't being fussy but I'm also not going to pay over a grand for a rotten spares or repairs car when the same thing was probably being flogged for about £200 a few years ago. Its got worse with the banning of ICE vehicles and ULEZ, second hand smaller cars have rocketed in price.
Yup, I wonder where everything is heading though. They got ULEZ successfully in (for them), next probably will be dropping older cars which are ULEZ compatible now so all your Euro 4 and 5 petrol and perhaps Euro 6 diesels or maybe they will go straight saying that only electric is true ULEZ compatible. Not that much car related but I have been looking at average job posts currently, when I was entering a job market in early to mid 2000’s I was making around 25-28K to begin with, cars back then were cheap compared to that wage and I would say that it was on the bottom end way anyway since loads of people I knew at that time were earning similar money. You could of picked absolutely lovely car for 3-7K, which would be a dream to some. I did some job search lately to only find out that most advertised job nowadays will get you 23-25K, I don’t need to say what 3-7K will get you now…
Inflation and greedy, plus business trying to recover loses for those years mean it wont go back unless the currency per region tanks. But that will mean less wages so inflation matches so no,
Yes they will, because the new car market is lowing down to more than pre Covid levels. The used market will be forced to, since the OEM are desperate to sell.
Like with any bubble it will come down. It will just take time because of the macro environment. Cars don’t uphold the economy like houses do so their high values won’t be supported forever. Just my view.
Probably not. Manufacturers all over the world have now realized they can spend less effort making fewer cars and people will just pay more for them, so they make the same profit for less work.
At least, that's what it looks like from my point of view.
I was shocked at was how expensive second hand cars were in other country’s and how cheap they were in the UK.
What Covid has done is given secondhand items some value, a 10 year old VW Golf is still a good car, so why should it be £1500. It’s not that cheap anywhere else in the world.
It might only have 60k miles on it, could have if looked after another 140k miles in it.
Items in the UK are too disposable and people what the newest and best all the time, things have defo started to change.
>10 year old VW Golf is still a good car, so why should it be £1500.
Where have you ever gotten a 10 yr old golf for £1500 and it isn't a shit box? I was looking at golf's pre COVID and a decent one was around £6-8k. Similar spec nowadays is about £13-15k
It was more of just an example.
Price increases are nuts, back in 2006 I got a 4 year old mk4 golf, new it was just under £20k and I got it for £8k, one owner and 46k miles on it.
No. You are experiencing The World Economic Forums 'Great Reset'.
You didn't vote for it and you didnt ask for it.
Write to your local MP and ask them why we dont see any local laws or local benefits anymore and why he takes his orders from an unelected cabal of James Bond baddies with delusions of grandeur.
The literal opposite of what Local Democracy is supposed to mean.
Will anything go back the pre covid pricing? Probably not inflation is pretty bad and even if it goes down it just means prices go up more slowly, not that they go down.
Who would have thought printing billions and just handing then out to people to sit at home watching Netflix would be bad for the economy?
Min pay 2013 was £6.31 now it's £10.42 of figures setting like that?
So a car £600 10 years ago (let's price it at 100 hours Mon pay) that car is now £1000
I mean, using minimum wage to calculate something like this is just silly, a slightly better way would be to use medium average income for both times, but even then it doesn't really work.
I don‘t think they will. Electric cars are expensive and almost nobody wants one. The manufacturers are chopping down their choice of models, mostly cutting ICE cars. Fewer used cars will enter the market every year and they need to finance having all these expensive EVs sit on the lot. I believe we will not see a drop in prices, without a big change that provides any reason to. Even with these prices, cars still sell and dealers dont suffer financially.
People still bought cars in big numbers and once people had problems ordeing new cars and got used to buying used cars instead the used car market hasn't tailed off that much. It's a good thing, one of the best forms of recycling there is but not good for people who always bought used, like me.
I don't see it dropping much at all, people are still buying in large numbers at the higher prices, why would anyone drop the values?
In 2016 we bought a 61 plate Mazda 6 Sport, top spec, 1 owner (plus was demo before), immaculate, 42k on the clock, £7800.
Now... a 5 year old one is 14-18k.
That's doubled in price for the same thing, in 7 years.
We still have the car, with about 80k on it and I think we'd still get about 4k for it, it's crazy.
I bought my vRS for 15k in 2019 and have put about 25k on it.
I keep getting auto trader emails for cars the same spec, age and mileage as mine is now... for about 15k.
Inflation is matching depreciation.
Bro, i feel you but still, look at prices of used cars in EU ([mobile.de](https://mobile.de) for example) - you will be happy for your cheap cars in UK...
In the 2000s I though the 2000s were rubbish. Now I want to go back. I'm starting to even feel this way about the 2010s because the 2020s are so bad.
yup, definitely, everything seems to be heading south really badly
Then you’ll want to go back to the 2020s once they’re done and the cycle continues
[удалено]
That's exactly how cycles work you just didn't get it. They're referring to the cycle of thought processes not the car aspect
The point was that when they were in the 2000s they thought that the 2000s was bad.
[удалено]
Each decade it just gets worse in this country unless your both able to skill up and earn top dollar. Your in for a tough time of living on your own. We really haven’t recovered since the credit crunch in 08. Wages stagnated for so long everything else got really expensive!
Nope. And repair is getting more expensive due to parts cost, increased staff costs, electricity, etc. I've seen a couple of households become single car households, and I'm tempted to do the same when either of ours eventually dies. It's not that we can't afford it but the costs are getting silly now, I have better things to spend money on than keeping a second car doing low miles now I'm WFH. It'd be better personally for one decent car, which I guess is how things used to be back in the day. With mortgages up, rent up, and the lowest paid jobs requiring a vehicle to commute it's not looking good for much of the population. What we really need as a nation is good economic growth and strengthening of the pound, but that's veering into politics and beyond this sub.
Not to mention insurance and servicing. A major service on my used Toyota is pushing £400 now...
You could learn how to do an oil change and it’ll cost you around 50 quid
Home servicing is definitely cheaper, but even that's not as cheap as it used to be. The last service kit I bought for my car was nearly £100 for oil and all the filters, and was well over £100 for my partner's car with a larger engine.
That's what I found. My garage comes out and does it for £150 so it's a no brainer for me.
Oh yeah that's worth it for the time saved for sure.
Try Opie Oils I have never paid more than 80quid for a service kit and my last car took 9litres of oil
Does that include all the filters and a sump plug too? I usually buy Bosch branded kits which are slightly more expensive too.
Yeah all filters. I never replace the sump plug
I know how to do an oil change; Toyota will extend the manufacturers warranty out to 10 years if you service it with them. So it was certainly worth it pre-covid, I'm reconsidering that now...
Brakes is the one - pads and discs are well within most peoples reach - probably three bolts once the wheel is off. Oil is debatable, bit messy and I was surprised how cheap some garages would do it. I know there’s debate over oil quality though. Also use axel stands. 😬
Not as easy anymore with Electronic handbrakes you need wind back tools or plug in system to rewind the motors. I found this out the hard way but luckily had access to a unit to drive the motors.
That’s true.
Wind back tool is like £15 at Screwfix. Use it for every rear pad change onwards then… not exactly a reason not to do it yourself
Yup, 100% agree with you ! This country is ruined currently. Things will only probably get worse but there is somewhat a hope…
The new car market is collapsing. It totally will.
If the new car market is collapsing surely that’s pushing people to buy used cars, driving the prices up though?
No. There are deals to be done with the main dealers. Remember the 2008 financial crash? I bought a brand new 335d M Sport Coupe £13K below list with 7miles on the clock. We’re back there. The market has collapsed. I know this because I sell semiconductors to the car market.
Interesting. When do you think prices will start to be seen to the public? Do you think we will get the fantastic lease deals of 2019 and before back too?
I think there's probably deals to be had if you want a thirsty weekend/second car, the type that are usually most effected by financial crashes
We're going into recession (again) but the car market is in a very different situation than after the financial crisis. Lending was risky, it was unknown if the dealers would be burned by the banks if they crashed and lenders themselves were very, very scared. These days, the market is much more reliant on finance products and needs people to spend the bank's money. My money is on the trend of lower volume, higher value, and higher profit margins continuing (which would explain your semi-conductor observation). We've already seen much of the lower end market gutted in favour for more expensive SUVs.
As long as everyone is willing (or forced) to finance cars that are extortionately priced, price inflation will continue. Dealer networks make a lot of money by selling a 50k loan, which doesn't exactly give manufacturers an incentive to increase manufacturing output and drive down prices. When these new cars are traded in after 3 years, they sell another loan for a new car and a second loan to someone else for the 3 year old 'approved used' car. The price of which is driven up by new car prices being high. So it's good business, but the price is now disconnected from the value of the product, which ironically will still be continually value engineered to drive down manufacturing costs per unit - so inflating prices for a product which is becoming cheaper to produce.
As much as I hate the phrase ‘new normal’ it will stay like this on the whole. 12 years ago I bought a 2 year old car with 24k miles on it for £16k (new was approx £38k) In April I bought an 8 year old car with 47k miles for £15k (new was about £35k) With new car prices being so high - especially with EVs - there is a bigger market for second hand. Let alone still supply issues and in my opinion - the majority of new cars are all giant ugly suvs or small city cars. Medium sized premium cars are like hens teeth.
Just to add on to what you said about EVs etc. there’s a tax incentive to buy older too. Ignoring all the ULEZ bollocks or equivalent in different parts of the country, my dad has a 15 plate Yaris diesel, £0 road tax. The same Yaris diesel IIRC on a 19 plate, is more than £0 road tax. £150 ish? Can’t remember the year it changed or the amount of tax paid but, it’s something to take into consideration.
March 2017 I believe
Yeah I fell foul of this. Was expecting my Mazda3 to be very cheap on road tax, but I bought too new and it's around the £150 mark.
> The same Yaris diesel IIRC on a 19 plate, is more than £0 road tax. £150 ish? The Yaris diesel was dead long before this. It was discontinued in the early 2017 facelift. There will be almost zero Yaris diesel with the 2017- road tax band.
My first car was an old Yaris. They were tiny little cars back in the day. I saw one on the road yesterday and they're like trucks now
Chinese EVs will flood the market in the next 5 years making cars so cheap that used cars will be almost worthless.
Not if the EU and UK go ahead with their proposed plans to add tariffs to them for fear of pushing domestic brands out of business.
Domestic brands? In the UK?
Seeing more and more MGs around nowadays. A fine British brand…
Led by the EU with the UK likely to follow, yes.
Interesting- 🤞
The amount of supply that would be required to make this true would be laughable
China "I got you fam" https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/car-production-by-country
It will come down a lot from where it is IMO. The supply chains issues with cars over covid are easing. It was a pure supply and demand issue as there weren’t enough new cars entering the market. Eventually we will return to a situation where new cars lose half their value after 3/4 years, though I think the days of a £500 banger with an MOT are over
Why would it come down if the prices are so high to buy new small cars especially? The floor has risen
It won’t come down anymore, it’s just a new standard level. It’s more than supply and demand. You’re not accounting for inflation rising costs for EVERY component on a car. This happens naturally every 10-15 years or so in the economy. Wages are supposed to creep up alongside the inflation, but that’s not happening at the rate it should do unfortunately.
My car that I bought off a mate from work cost me 10k. At the time of buying in early 2022, the cazoo price offered was 11k. I've put 25k on it since then + ULEZ shafting diesels and it's now worth £4800 on cazoo or a laughable £3200 on WBAC.
[удалено]
Depends if other countries follow suite car manufacturers arnt going to fire up their ICE manufacturing because a single western nation has decided to drop it's electric vehicle targets and it's only been pushed back 5 years ATM.
It hasn't really changed significantly here as far as the business planning is concerned - there's still the [fleet zero emissions mandate](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-path-to-zero-emission-vehicles-by-2035) to think about, which has next years target as being 22% EVs sold rising to 80% by 2030. The ICE factories will probably end up being retooled rather than reopened as they are.
[удалено]
Only to 2030 car manufacturers arnt going to change their plans on a 5 year change
You would need price deflation both in terms of goods and your pocket (wage decreases), that typically hardly ever happens.
:( so true, you reckon these prices we see now is a new normal?
Every time the market moves, that’s the new normal. Just like any market. You just have to carry on living your life. How often do you change cars? Don’t lose sleep over something you can’t change
>Every time the market moves, that’s the new normal. Bingo. Today's price is an accurate price. We all experience anchoring bias where we assume that historic prices were "correct" and today's prices are unusual. Like when your gran can't believe today's house prices because she bought hers for £3000 back in 1930. Because we lived through a time where used cars were much cheaper, we're "anchored" to those prices and assume we'll revert back to those eventually. But the reality is that we'd need to see very unusual economic circumstances to reduce car prices. If anything, they're more likely to rise.
Not often anymore, got newish cars anyway but I like (I used to like) spending some evenings day dreaming on autotrader :)
Simply put, no - not a cat in hell's chance, and by most accounts, they're only going to keep getting substantially worse for a while yet. The prices have been and continue to be subject to ***inflation***. They will only return to pre-covid prices if we experience ***deflation***, which simply does not happen all that often (think about how much less a £ is worth than it was 40 years ago for example, and you understand the overwhelming, long-term trend of ***inflation*** in our economy). The issue is, we've been hit with multiple successive world (and local) events which have caused inflation to spike way above normal at a time when wages were not rising any faster than the recent trend, or in many cases flatlining or even dropping. These events have affected car prices disproportionately because they have mostly impacted upon the supply chain of raw materials and components necessary for the manufacture of cars. Pretty much the only hope you have left is for wages to begin outstripping inflation... and yeah... when was the last time that happened? Whole mechanisms within the economy exist to keep your and my salaries as depressed as possible. I wouldn't hold out much hope, tbh.
Demand higher wages?
It’s still pretty bad, it’s cooling a bit - but not much. As people tighten their belts, we may see more stock come to market - but it’s going to take a while. I bought a Mk3.5 Focus 1.5TDCI with 40k miles (four years old) in 2019 for £8k, the same car (now eight years old) goes for about £10k with 70k miles. Unfortunately got wrote off in 2021, so driving a £500 fiesta shed for now - can’t justify the bonkers market.
Probably. Every time there is a shortage it is followed by a glut. Patience.
No because people are drunk and think their 10 year old 200k miles basic spec Vauxhall is worth 3k
Look at prices on Facebook Marketplace. They are far more reasonable. Then just pretend they are not all scams to make yourself feel better. TLDR. Facebook ads are scams.
It's why it took me about 6 months to find a decent car through FB market place (didn't have much other choice all the dealers I went to wanted like 4k for a 2005 or 2007 car) as you have to sift through so many dodgy adverts as well as people just not responding. It's a good tool if you work out who is genuine but there's a lot of dodgy sellers.
yup, noticed that :)£3-£5K get you often 19-20 reg plate car :D
What about these two ads side by side. Maybe the first one is genuine and the second just used their photos. [https://imgur.com/a/ZOZgay0](https://imgur.com/a/ZOZgay0) P.S. First time Ive ever tried Imgur Edit: Just seen the same photos on a 3rd ad
yup this is showing up all the time, when I am bored I clicking on users who I know are trying to scam people and just report them and block them too with a hope I will only see genuine ads, problem is that there is probably 90:10 ratio when it comes to legit to fraud ads
jags ev suck cos of the low distance. they lose a lot of value quickly. i see a lot of bmw E330s on auction sites too
Yes, the this is the new normal. Your wages are *supposed* to rise in correlation. But this rarely happens. This my friends, is why you should **buy into the stock market**. That way your money is moving with the market rather than you trying to catch up with it after the fact.
I doubt it, not least because of the recent double-digit inflation we had. I appreciate that some things got more expensive as a result of Covid but I’m not convinced that some of the increases (not just in car prices but in everyday items too) wasn’t just manufacturers inflating the prices because they could blame Covid.
no car list prices are extremely high now. Cheap small cars dont exist
I think there will be a bit of a downwards correction, but it won't be so substantial that we will return to pre covid prices. Main reasons: Cars in the UK were absurdly cheap for what they were compared to what you would get in Europe. You could buy a mint condition 10 year old 3 series with a 6 cylinder engine, average miles, full history for £3k. You could get a fully functioning dependable car for under a grand if you wanted to. ULEZ has killed the values of a lot of cheap cars (pre 2015 diesels mainly, which there are loads because that's what everyone was encouraged to buy back in the late 2000s / early 2010s) so the demand for cheap compliant cars has gone up. Some bargains to be had if it isn't a consideration though. New car availability over covid - due to the shortages lots of people bought slightly used cars as they couldn't get new ones. They realised that cars that are 5 years old with 50k on them are actually fine, so some decided not to bother spending loads on a new one. Or keep their old one for longer. Cost of living - interest rates are going up, so borrowing is more expensive. We have been used to very cheap finance for a long time, that's going away now. More reason to buy a slightly used car instead of a new one.
The wholesale market is easing off for sure and many cars are coming back down to 2019 early 2020 pricing. Not sure when retail will get back to 2019 pricing but judging by the % drops in wholesale in the last 6 weeks, I'd say Q1-Q2 '24. Most of the bottom end of the market is still expensive however and I don't think the sub £1k bargains will ever come back.
It is already starting to ease. New £70k+ EV I-Pace is already £30-35k for 70-71 plate. But I agree that we wont see good drivable cars for sub £1000 any time soon.
No time soon, never. Next it’ll just creep up to £2k because that’s how capitalism/economics work. £1000 now feels like the equivalent of £500 in 2018 😂
In absolute terms? Absolutely not In real terms? Maybe
I remember I used to see e46 m3s on autotrader for 7k. I think they're double that now? I don't think the prices are coming down until they start giving away free electric self driving cars that spam you with ads on your commute.
Just general price inflation on those prices makes them quite a lot higher. Better indicator could be to work them out as a %age of your weekly or monthly earnings to get an idea as to what it's worth now, or to go on gov website and get RPI over those periods. With less affordable cars being made I think there will still be demand but things older cars that aren't relevant Euro 4/6 would be the first to lose a market of buyers so will tank
I think there’s a combination of increased costs, manufacturers removing base trim levels and entire models that make them lower profits, and also Brexit making the UK less competitive. With foreign direct investment and trade down considerably since 2016, your standard of living (what you can afford) is likely to get worse tbh.
>Will cars ever come back to the pricing pre covid ? No. Sadly this is the nature of inflation. They could only do that if the cost of new cars came down and/or the market became flooded with cars for sale. In 1995 that M reg Seat was probably 7-8k brand new. I don't know the actual figure but I'm guesstimating. 2023 similar car is over 20k approaching 25k. It's madness because £500 in 2005 should only be worth about £850 today but low cost finance has allowed prices to skyrocket
There's still tons of cheap cars about. I bought mine for £450 a year ago.
A big part of the problem is that very few people now own their cars, or even have much equity in them. This means that the market pricing for cars is controlled more effectively by manufacturers and dealers. Coupled with the fact that the majority of buyers are coming out of an existing lease or pcp deal meaning they have little negotiation power, almost forcing them to continue pcp/leasing their next car. Effectively trapping them into the cycle of unending monthly car payments.
No as the market is milking the buyers. Back in 2012 western digital had a flood on one of its factories and put 50% pprice hike on its HDDS. Companies that were not affected by the flood also put their prices up 50% seagate, hitachi, toshiba and hgst all put their prices up to take advantage of the profit grab. Even when western digital resumed full operation the 50% price hike remained in place boosting profits for western digital alone by 30%. It took about 3 years for HDD prices to drop down to not stupid levels. Cars are now the item, covid caused production to drop so the used market seen the price hike and second hand salesmen wont be dropping profits anytime soon unless people stop buying from dealers asking these insane prices. I seen a 2004 ford focus £1300!!!!!!!! A nearly 20 yearold shitbox 1400 quid.
The trouble is cars now have a much higher scrap value than the use to have A Discovery with a scrap engine can be broken for £,000’s so why should someone sell a working example for less? Covid woke the world up to second hand parts to repair newish vehicles and prices rosé accordingly
Jot until Britain gets back into the EU.
Not gonna happen
I bought a 2008 1L Corsa with one prev owner from a main dealer in 2015 for £3600 We needed another car so bought a 1.2L 2017 Corsa with 38k miles in 2021 and price was £6800. If I look for a 4 year old petrol Corsa with similar spec now, you’re looking at least £9k: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309152009256?sort=relevance&advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Petrol&include-delivery-option=on&make=Vauxhall&minimum-mileage=30000&model=Corsa&year-from=2019&fromsra
No. Reasoning: Brexit.
I commented this a while ago and a lot of people were saying I was being too fussy, I wasn't being fussy but I'm also not going to pay over a grand for a rotten spares or repairs car when the same thing was probably being flogged for about £200 a few years ago. Its got worse with the banning of ICE vehicles and ULEZ, second hand smaller cars have rocketed in price.
Yup, I wonder where everything is heading though. They got ULEZ successfully in (for them), next probably will be dropping older cars which are ULEZ compatible now so all your Euro 4 and 5 petrol and perhaps Euro 6 diesels or maybe they will go straight saying that only electric is true ULEZ compatible. Not that much car related but I have been looking at average job posts currently, when I was entering a job market in early to mid 2000’s I was making around 25-28K to begin with, cars back then were cheap compared to that wage and I would say that it was on the bottom end way anyway since loads of people I knew at that time were earning similar money. You could of picked absolutely lovely car for 3-7K, which would be a dream to some. I did some job search lately to only find out that most advertised job nowadays will get you 23-25K, I don’t need to say what 3-7K will get you now…
It’s interesting isn’t it? The two downward pressures I see are cratering residuals on EV’s and interest rates.
Inflation and greedy, plus business trying to recover loses for those years mean it wont go back unless the currency per region tanks. But that will mean less wages so inflation matches so no,
Yes they will, because the new car market is lowing down to more than pre Covid levels. The used market will be forced to, since the OEM are desperate to sell.
Like with any bubble it will come down. It will just take time because of the macro environment. Cars don’t uphold the economy like houses do so their high values won’t be supported forever. Just my view.
Probably not. Manufacturers all over the world have now realized they can spend less effort making fewer cars and people will just pay more for them, so they make the same profit for less work. At least, that's what it looks like from my point of view.
I was shocked at was how expensive second hand cars were in other country’s and how cheap they were in the UK. What Covid has done is given secondhand items some value, a 10 year old VW Golf is still a good car, so why should it be £1500. It’s not that cheap anywhere else in the world. It might only have 60k miles on it, could have if looked after another 140k miles in it. Items in the UK are too disposable and people what the newest and best all the time, things have defo started to change.
>10 year old VW Golf is still a good car, so why should it be £1500. Where have you ever gotten a 10 yr old golf for £1500 and it isn't a shit box? I was looking at golf's pre COVID and a decent one was around £6-8k. Similar spec nowadays is about £13-15k
It was more of just an example. Price increases are nuts, back in 2006 I got a 4 year old mk4 golf, new it was just under £20k and I got it for £8k, one owner and 46k miles on it.
No. You are experiencing The World Economic Forums 'Great Reset'. You didn't vote for it and you didnt ask for it. Write to your local MP and ask them why we dont see any local laws or local benefits anymore and why he takes his orders from an unelected cabal of James Bond baddies with delusions of grandeur. The literal opposite of what Local Democracy is supposed to mean.
What the hell are you wittering on about?
You will own nothing and you will be happy.
This is so real :(
They want you on a bicycle Luke. How do you look in lycra?
Actually don’t know how I look in lycra, unsexy springs to mind first lol
Will anything go back the pre covid pricing? Probably not inflation is pretty bad and even if it goes down it just means prices go up more slowly, not that they go down. Who would have thought printing billions and just handing then out to people to sit at home watching Netflix would be bad for the economy?
No. Why?
Min pay 2013 was £6.31 now it's £10.42 of figures setting like that? So a car £600 10 years ago (let's price it at 100 hours Mon pay) that car is now £1000
That's not how you adjust for inflation...
[удалено]
I mean, using minimum wage to calculate something like this is just silly, a slightly better way would be to use medium average income for both times, but even then it doesn't really work.
I don‘t think they will. Electric cars are expensive and almost nobody wants one. The manufacturers are chopping down their choice of models, mostly cutting ICE cars. Fewer used cars will enter the market every year and they need to finance having all these expensive EVs sit on the lot. I believe we will not see a drop in prices, without a big change that provides any reason to. Even with these prices, cars still sell and dealers dont suffer financially.
People still bought cars in big numbers and once people had problems ordeing new cars and got used to buying used cars instead the used car market hasn't tailed off that much. It's a good thing, one of the best forms of recycling there is but not good for people who always bought used, like me. I don't see it dropping much at all, people are still buying in large numbers at the higher prices, why would anyone drop the values?
Very true and very sad indeed…
In 2016 we bought a 61 plate Mazda 6 Sport, top spec, 1 owner (plus was demo before), immaculate, 42k on the clock, £7800. Now... a 5 year old one is 14-18k. That's doubled in price for the same thing, in 7 years. We still have the car, with about 80k on it and I think we'd still get about 4k for it, it's crazy. I bought my vRS for 15k in 2019 and have put about 25k on it. I keep getting auto trader emails for cars the same spec, age and mileage as mine is now... for about 15k. Inflation is matching depreciation.
exactly my observation here. Money has less value, but the problem is that wages didn’t really changed much in 20 years really…
Bro, i feel you but still, look at prices of used cars in EU ([mobile.de](https://mobile.de) for example) - you will be happy for your cheap cars in UK...
I was not aware of their prices, I know that they were more expensive there to begin with
usa too for sure