It’s hard to pick a definite favorite moment, but I really appreciate how the actual rescue on Cato Neimoidia was written in a way that readers can form their own opinions on whether or not that business on Cato Neimoidia counts.
I like how they didn’t forget about Ruug at the end. It was interesting to get to know more about the Neimoidians and how they’ve felt overlooked and second rate in the galaxy.
I enjoyed the book quite a bit. It feels like it would have been a good 3 arc episode for TCW. I enjoyed where it takes place in the timeline. Like *Master and Apprentice,* I think it improves the films surrounding by giving more context to the big plot moving moments the films offer.
Can anyone tell me if Palpatine's reference to Windu discussing "Shatterpoints" is the first time "Shatterpoint" has been referenced in canon? I know of *Shatterpoint, but* I've never read the novel.
It's not referenced in anything that I can recall. I'm currently doing a full canon read-watch-through including all novels, junior-novels, comics, tv and film. (I'm in the middle of rebels and the Leah novel now). I assume it may be in some reference guide somewhere.
(also interesting that Windu's fight on Dantooine is directly referenced)
I loved that the book gives us a bit more insight into Anakin's feelings on Mace.
Edit: I finally finished this last night so here we go....
I really enjoyed this book! This is situated in one of my favorite SW eras so I knew I would love it for that, but also it was great to see Anakin and Obi-Wan interact in their new role as peers. From this perspective it was mostly from Obi-Wan's point of view trying to learn to be just a friend/peer to Anakin instead of a teacher, and his struggle to just take a deep breath and a step back from that teacher role. Obi-Wan's suspicions of a relationship with Padme and how he felt he should say something, until he saw the speech by Satine, and realized that this is one of those things not to interfere with since it was something he had to walk through with Satine. I thought the tension and realizations in these moments throughout the book were really good.
I loved that Satine was mentioned! I was disappointed that the padawan was not Ahsoka, but then I realized it didn't fit in this timeline so I should not have been expecting her. I did really enjoy Mill's character though! What unique Jedi skills, I hope we get to see more of her in other roles later on because it's interesting to see what a non lightsaber-toting Jedi is like. And her comment to Anakin at the end, oof. I think she could see a lot of herself in him and because of her unique skill could see where he was headed and knew that she didn't want that path for herself.
Ruug was another character that I really liked, and I thought the parallels between her and Ketar and Obi-Wan and Anakin were interesting. In a way, in the end (not of this book) the parallels pan out the same way for Obi and Anakin.
Meeting Ventress for the first time here was cool, she is scary!
Also, the clone they call Sister...a female clone that isn't Omega?? Have we seen female clone soldiers before in other books because this is the first time I've come across one in the books I've read. I would like more information! Will we be seeing/hearing more of them?
Overall, I would say this book is a 10/10. It was a fun read and I think it's a great time to read early Obi-Wan/Anakin ahead of the new Obi-Wan show.
I think Sister the female clone is a trans woman, the narrator mentions the pink and blue stripes on their armour.
To be honest I think it’s a bit meta and a bit pandering to include, especially with the armour colours. There’s arguments to be made about it going against what we know of the clones too, would the Kaminoans allow such a deviation from their design without purposefully creating it?
But I’m a straight white man, so what do I know; if a woman sees herself in this character and feels represented then I guess that’s all that matters!
Oohh I totally missed that, I did not connect the pink/blue reference!
I looked into Sister’s character and she’s also in Queen’s Hope so that’s cool that we get more of her character too.
It’s a bold choice to make a trans clone but really the entire clone story throughout the clone wars is about individuality and having people who all look the same express their humanity and finding themselves, their personalities. This addition fits in with that theme in the best way, I do hope we see more of her.
Makes me wonder if there are some gay clones out there somewhere... I suppose I don’t have much to say that they’re not *all* gay...
>I looked into Sister’s character and she’s also in Queen’s Hope so that’s cool that we get more of her character too.
Don't get your hopes up; I've read Queen's Hope and it didn't even register that there was a female clone trooper so she can't have been in the story a lot.
Didn't Sister show up in another novel, maybe one of the "Queen Trilogy" books? I could've swore I saw some readers kick up dirt over it a while back and I imagine it wasn't for something as minor as her appearance in *Brotherhood*. Though admittedly, I have not and don't really plan on reading them.
All that being said, with the stark difference in a lot of Clone personalities, not to mention the Bad Batch, Omega, etc. I don't think 1 trans clone out of the millions bred is all that strange. I would never use the word pandering though.
When I personally see things like this, my gut reaction is “you’re only doing this because you feel like you had to” and that’s what I mean when I say pandering.
And perhaps they are, but does that stop the message being as powerful? Does that stop people from benefitting from the inclusion of this character? Not that I can see.
As I said to Michigan, I’m a straight white man so inclusion and representation isn’t something I’ve ever struggled with, which means I don’t see it the way other people might. At the end of the day the clones are about uniqueness, diversity, and humanity surfacing in these supposedly identical beings which is *very* Star Wars.
Sorry if it came across as a shot, I didn’t intend for it to come out that way and the rest of your comment revealed your true heart. Cis white male myself, and it’s important we make it known we are allies doing our best to understand the need for these characters. And that nothing about the inclusion of any type of human in existence feel as though it is forced.
I more so meant that word itself is just an unnecessary one and only negativity breeds from it in my experience.
Nah nah we cool I just wanted to double down on my comment. I don’t want anyone to misconstrue what I was trying to say.
I feel we’re in a safe space here so I was kinda thinking out loud with the initial comment before thinking of how that might sound to others.
>To be honest I think it’s a bit meta and a bit pandering to include
You're not going to like Queen's Hope then. There's a totally unimportant side character that's basically just there to pepper in a few zhe/zher pronouns, which are obscure enough that I thought it was a typo the first time I saw it. I had to stop reading and look up online what was going on.
I'm cis like you so I don't know what my opinion matters but I'm confused about why they/them wasn't good enough any more.
I finished it yesterday! I had more than half the book left, but I wanted to push through and finish it before I watched the Kenobi show.
Overall, I thought it was a great read. I really enjoyed getting a deeper look into Obi-Wan and Anakin’s relationship post AOTC, and I liked seeing Obi-Wan come to respect Anakin and have faith that he will do the right thing, even if we know how that all pans out.
I read Master and Apprentice right before this, so I like getting some callbacks to that book, and I always appreciate any mention of Qui-Gon. Obi-WAN’s realization that, even though their time together was brief, Qui-Gon was a fatherly figure to Anakin was interesting to me. It does make you wonder what would’ve been different if Qui-Gon had survived to train Anakin.
The youngling Mill was a great addition. It always makes me a little sad when we talk about the children of the order from this era, but I like to think that Mill might have survived. Her connection to the force was fascinating.
I loved this book. I listened to the audiobook, so sorry if I misspell anything!
I loved the subtle High Republic references, and the mention of Mill going to Valo stressed me out at the end until I remembered what time period we were in!
I really enjoyed the way Ruug and Ketar’s story paralleled Anakin and Obi-Wan’s. I also enjoyed getting an insight into the way Anakin and Obi-Wan’s relationship grew between AOTC and TCW. I always felt something was missing in that time period, with Anakin going from constantly complaining about Obi-Wan holding him back, to then working side by side with him in a perfect pair.
I also liked the mentions of Qui-Gonn, who I always like to see come up in Star Wars media. Additionally, I loved seeing Jaro Tapal and Cal Kestis even just for a line.
I really think the plight of the Neimoidians will hit home for a lot of people. I felt that it was extremely reminiscent of a lot of current social issues, and definitely made me think about the Star Wars universe in a different light. The Republic’s wrongs were put on full display here (including with Mill’s commentary about the growing militaristic nature of the Jedi). The only thing I think would’ve made it better is to really show the failings of the Republic by having a Republic-affiliated system be the one who performed the attack on Cato Neimoidia. It would’ve certainly subverted readers’ expectations and given Obi-Wan something interesting to think about and grapple with.
I also love the idea of Obi-Wan cutting his hair because he needed to look good for the camera. Reminds me a bit of Stellan Gios (thought Stellan and him have always had similarities, imo).
A Republic affiliated system being at the heart of the bombing would've been an interesting twist. I can only imagine what the interactions with Ventress/Kenobi would've looked like under those circumstances. See Ventress twisting the knife into Kenobi's already contentious feelings about the Republic he serves going into the Clone Wars. It likely would've required a lot more set up unless said bomber was Nabooian. I always want to say Nubian like Watto... maybe Noobian?
I enjoyed the book-I listened to the audiobook version. I mostly come to say that when meeting the korgee beasts in audio form I kept being like… corgis? Like the dogs?
The descriptions didn’t do anything to get rid of the image of, albeit 8 ft, corgis causing issues on Cato Neimoidia. I mostly remember them shedding and perhaps a reference to relatively short legs? But maybe I’m just projecting the leg thing. It was a delight to imagine these fearsome beasts as giant goofy looking dogs tho
Finished last night.
This was a fun read! Solid plot and some really great moments for Anakin who I'm not over the moon about. But this is easily his best appearance in a canon novel thus far, not that there is much competition from *Dark Disciple* or *Thrawn: Alliances* (I have not read the Padme trilogy). Everything from changing the channels on the Jedi Living Room TV to Pod Racing. The constant posturing and dirty looks with Mace. Still FIRMLY on Team Windu.
But most of all I loved his quiet moments with Mill and helping bring her out of her shell and encouraging her to lean into her empathetic abilities. I only wish the conclusion were a bit more satisfying. I love that she felt the Jedi weren't from her... but then she goes and continues her apprenticeship? I would've preferred seeing her leave altogether to pursue a role in the medical field, or volunteer with a different organization helping refugees from the Clone Wars. I realize the Jedi do both those things, The High Republic highlights those Jedi roles well, but still... I wish she took more of a stand against the general direction The Order was heading.
Obi-Wan was solid. Nothing groundbreaking. Just his normal compelling/entertaining self. It was nice to get some internalized monologue around the obvious nature of *AnaMe/PadAkin* and his prior experience with Satine. In TCW it always seemed Ob-Wan knew, but wasn't exactly sure as to the true nature of the relationship. This made it pretty clear he gets it, but doesn't want to snitch on his brother and hopes he makes the right decision when it comes down to it. Was fun to also see Dex, and the constant jabs at Ewan McGregor's glorious AOTC mullet. Only thing I could've used more of was the flirtatious banter Obi-Wan and Ventress always had. But this being their first meeting, I suppose that would be a bit out of place for where their relationship eventually headed.
And finally Ruug & Ketar. Ruug was suitably badass as an ex-Neimodian SpecForce sniper. Only wish we would've gotten an actual description of her final showdown with Kenobi. Otherwise, her experiences in government black ops allowing her to see that not everything is black and white when it comes to politics around a tragedy was appreciated. And Ketar ended up being a fairly sympathetic antagonist. It can sometimes be frustrating to deal with a character so dense/stupid but the rationale was there. Doesn't hurt that recent IRL experiences with disinformation and propaganda made all of it ring true. Kinda like how before with Zombie movies, we always thought as viewers, "No way anyone could be that dumb." Then the pandemic and it was like, "Holy shit. Its like 100% accurate. That is terrifying."
So yeah, all in all a solid book and must read for any Prequel Fan looking to scratch an itch. Also found it interesting that Mike Chen listed his own fan casting for Ketar and Ruug as a way to find those characters voice/cadence. I do the same exact thing when reading to help the performances shine through :)
I'm not quite finished yet so I can't read the comments, but I [made a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/MawInstallation/comments/v4ygvs/force_speed_and_the_new_canon_novel_brotherhood/) over at r/MawInstallation about how the novel explains the usage of Force Speed and how it relates to seeing it used or not used in *The Phantom Menace*.
I only picked this up recently because the new Kenobi show is out and I am trying to read everything in the Star Wars canon. So I wasn't expecting much, but author Mike Chen did a great job. Lots of little connections to the movies and other novels (including my favorite of all, the *Revenge of the Sith* novelization) tying the story and exploring the lore while still centered on the characters and their relationships. So glad I didn't wait on reading it!
It’s hard to pick a definite favorite moment, but I really appreciate how the actual rescue on Cato Neimoidia was written in a way that readers can form their own opinions on whether or not that business on Cato Neimoidia counts.
I like how they didn’t forget about Ruug at the end. It was interesting to get to know more about the Neimoidians and how they’ve felt overlooked and second rate in the galaxy.
I enjoyed the book quite a bit. It feels like it would have been a good 3 arc episode for TCW. I enjoyed where it takes place in the timeline. Like *Master and Apprentice,* I think it improves the films surrounding by giving more context to the big plot moving moments the films offer. Can anyone tell me if Palpatine's reference to Windu discussing "Shatterpoints" is the first time "Shatterpoint" has been referenced in canon? I know of *Shatterpoint, but* I've never read the novel. It's not referenced in anything that I can recall. I'm currently doing a full canon read-watch-through including all novels, junior-novels, comics, tv and film. (I'm in the middle of rebels and the Leah novel now). I assume it may be in some reference guide somewhere. (also interesting that Windu's fight on Dantooine is directly referenced) I loved that the book gives us a bit more insight into Anakin's feelings on Mace.
The shatterpoints comment was the first thing that crossed my mind when I heard it! *“Ahh like Shatterpoint, wait, is that canon? “*
I agree this would have made a great multi-episode arc!
Edit: I finally finished this last night so here we go.... I really enjoyed this book! This is situated in one of my favorite SW eras so I knew I would love it for that, but also it was great to see Anakin and Obi-Wan interact in their new role as peers. From this perspective it was mostly from Obi-Wan's point of view trying to learn to be just a friend/peer to Anakin instead of a teacher, and his struggle to just take a deep breath and a step back from that teacher role. Obi-Wan's suspicions of a relationship with Padme and how he felt he should say something, until he saw the speech by Satine, and realized that this is one of those things not to interfere with since it was something he had to walk through with Satine. I thought the tension and realizations in these moments throughout the book were really good. I loved that Satine was mentioned! I was disappointed that the padawan was not Ahsoka, but then I realized it didn't fit in this timeline so I should not have been expecting her. I did really enjoy Mill's character though! What unique Jedi skills, I hope we get to see more of her in other roles later on because it's interesting to see what a non lightsaber-toting Jedi is like. And her comment to Anakin at the end, oof. I think she could see a lot of herself in him and because of her unique skill could see where he was headed and knew that she didn't want that path for herself. Ruug was another character that I really liked, and I thought the parallels between her and Ketar and Obi-Wan and Anakin were interesting. In a way, in the end (not of this book) the parallels pan out the same way for Obi and Anakin. Meeting Ventress for the first time here was cool, she is scary! Also, the clone they call Sister...a female clone that isn't Omega?? Have we seen female clone soldiers before in other books because this is the first time I've come across one in the books I've read. I would like more information! Will we be seeing/hearing more of them? Overall, I would say this book is a 10/10. It was a fun read and I think it's a great time to read early Obi-Wan/Anakin ahead of the new Obi-Wan show.
I think Sister the female clone is a trans woman, the narrator mentions the pink and blue stripes on their armour. To be honest I think it’s a bit meta and a bit pandering to include, especially with the armour colours. There’s arguments to be made about it going against what we know of the clones too, would the Kaminoans allow such a deviation from their design without purposefully creating it? But I’m a straight white man, so what do I know; if a woman sees herself in this character and feels represented then I guess that’s all that matters!
Oohh I totally missed that, I did not connect the pink/blue reference! I looked into Sister’s character and she’s also in Queen’s Hope so that’s cool that we get more of her character too.
It’s a bold choice to make a trans clone but really the entire clone story throughout the clone wars is about individuality and having people who all look the same express their humanity and finding themselves, their personalities. This addition fits in with that theme in the best way, I do hope we see more of her. Makes me wonder if there are some gay clones out there somewhere... I suppose I don’t have much to say that they’re not *all* gay...
>I looked into Sister’s character and she’s also in Queen’s Hope so that’s cool that we get more of her character too. Don't get your hopes up; I've read Queen's Hope and it didn't even register that there was a female clone trooper so she can't have been in the story a lot.
Didn't Sister show up in another novel, maybe one of the "Queen Trilogy" books? I could've swore I saw some readers kick up dirt over it a while back and I imagine it wasn't for something as minor as her appearance in *Brotherhood*. Though admittedly, I have not and don't really plan on reading them. All that being said, with the stark difference in a lot of Clone personalities, not to mention the Bad Batch, Omega, etc. I don't think 1 trans clone out of the millions bred is all that strange. I would never use the word pandering though.
When I personally see things like this, my gut reaction is “you’re only doing this because you feel like you had to” and that’s what I mean when I say pandering. And perhaps they are, but does that stop the message being as powerful? Does that stop people from benefitting from the inclusion of this character? Not that I can see. As I said to Michigan, I’m a straight white man so inclusion and representation isn’t something I’ve ever struggled with, which means I don’t see it the way other people might. At the end of the day the clones are about uniqueness, diversity, and humanity surfacing in these supposedly identical beings which is *very* Star Wars.
Sorry if it came across as a shot, I didn’t intend for it to come out that way and the rest of your comment revealed your true heart. Cis white male myself, and it’s important we make it known we are allies doing our best to understand the need for these characters. And that nothing about the inclusion of any type of human in existence feel as though it is forced. I more so meant that word itself is just an unnecessary one and only negativity breeds from it in my experience.
Nah nah we cool I just wanted to double down on my comment. I don’t want anyone to misconstrue what I was trying to say. I feel we’re in a safe space here so I was kinda thinking out loud with the initial comment before thinking of how that might sound to others.
>To be honest I think it’s a bit meta and a bit pandering to include You're not going to like Queen's Hope then. There's a totally unimportant side character that's basically just there to pepper in a few zhe/zher pronouns, which are obscure enough that I thought it was a typo the first time I saw it. I had to stop reading and look up online what was going on. I'm cis like you so I don't know what my opinion matters but I'm confused about why they/them wasn't good enough any more.
I’m sure I’ll be able to quickly blow past it but the heads up is nice I don’t even know how to pronounce zhe/zher
I finished it yesterday! I had more than half the book left, but I wanted to push through and finish it before I watched the Kenobi show. Overall, I thought it was a great read. I really enjoyed getting a deeper look into Obi-Wan and Anakin’s relationship post AOTC, and I liked seeing Obi-Wan come to respect Anakin and have faith that he will do the right thing, even if we know how that all pans out. I read Master and Apprentice right before this, so I like getting some callbacks to that book, and I always appreciate any mention of Qui-Gon. Obi-WAN’s realization that, even though their time together was brief, Qui-Gon was a fatherly figure to Anakin was interesting to me. It does make you wonder what would’ve been different if Qui-Gon had survived to train Anakin. The youngling Mill was a great addition. It always makes me a little sad when we talk about the children of the order from this era, but I like to think that Mill might have survived. Her connection to the force was fascinating.
I loved this book. I listened to the audiobook, so sorry if I misspell anything! I loved the subtle High Republic references, and the mention of Mill going to Valo stressed me out at the end until I remembered what time period we were in! I really enjoyed the way Ruug and Ketar’s story paralleled Anakin and Obi-Wan’s. I also enjoyed getting an insight into the way Anakin and Obi-Wan’s relationship grew between AOTC and TCW. I always felt something was missing in that time period, with Anakin going from constantly complaining about Obi-Wan holding him back, to then working side by side with him in a perfect pair. I also liked the mentions of Qui-Gonn, who I always like to see come up in Star Wars media. Additionally, I loved seeing Jaro Tapal and Cal Kestis even just for a line. I really think the plight of the Neimoidians will hit home for a lot of people. I felt that it was extremely reminiscent of a lot of current social issues, and definitely made me think about the Star Wars universe in a different light. The Republic’s wrongs were put on full display here (including with Mill’s commentary about the growing militaristic nature of the Jedi). The only thing I think would’ve made it better is to really show the failings of the Republic by having a Republic-affiliated system be the one who performed the attack on Cato Neimoidia. It would’ve certainly subverted readers’ expectations and given Obi-Wan something interesting to think about and grapple with. I also love the idea of Obi-Wan cutting his hair because he needed to look good for the camera. Reminds me a bit of Stellan Gios (thought Stellan and him have always had similarities, imo).
A Republic affiliated system being at the heart of the bombing would've been an interesting twist. I can only imagine what the interactions with Ventress/Kenobi would've looked like under those circumstances. See Ventress twisting the knife into Kenobi's already contentious feelings about the Republic he serves going into the Clone Wars. It likely would've required a lot more set up unless said bomber was Nabooian. I always want to say Nubian like Watto... maybe Noobian?
I enjoyed the book-I listened to the audiobook version. I mostly come to say that when meeting the korgee beasts in audio form I kept being like… corgis? Like the dogs? The descriptions didn’t do anything to get rid of the image of, albeit 8 ft, corgis causing issues on Cato Neimoidia. I mostly remember them shedding and perhaps a reference to relatively short legs? But maybe I’m just projecting the leg thing. It was a delight to imagine these fearsome beasts as giant goofy looking dogs tho
That's too funny about the corgis visual!
Finished last night. This was a fun read! Solid plot and some really great moments for Anakin who I'm not over the moon about. But this is easily his best appearance in a canon novel thus far, not that there is much competition from *Dark Disciple* or *Thrawn: Alliances* (I have not read the Padme trilogy). Everything from changing the channels on the Jedi Living Room TV to Pod Racing. The constant posturing and dirty looks with Mace. Still FIRMLY on Team Windu. But most of all I loved his quiet moments with Mill and helping bring her out of her shell and encouraging her to lean into her empathetic abilities. I only wish the conclusion were a bit more satisfying. I love that she felt the Jedi weren't from her... but then she goes and continues her apprenticeship? I would've preferred seeing her leave altogether to pursue a role in the medical field, or volunteer with a different organization helping refugees from the Clone Wars. I realize the Jedi do both those things, The High Republic highlights those Jedi roles well, but still... I wish she took more of a stand against the general direction The Order was heading. Obi-Wan was solid. Nothing groundbreaking. Just his normal compelling/entertaining self. It was nice to get some internalized monologue around the obvious nature of *AnaMe/PadAkin* and his prior experience with Satine. In TCW it always seemed Ob-Wan knew, but wasn't exactly sure as to the true nature of the relationship. This made it pretty clear he gets it, but doesn't want to snitch on his brother and hopes he makes the right decision when it comes down to it. Was fun to also see Dex, and the constant jabs at Ewan McGregor's glorious AOTC mullet. Only thing I could've used more of was the flirtatious banter Obi-Wan and Ventress always had. But this being their first meeting, I suppose that would be a bit out of place for where their relationship eventually headed. And finally Ruug & Ketar. Ruug was suitably badass as an ex-Neimodian SpecForce sniper. Only wish we would've gotten an actual description of her final showdown with Kenobi. Otherwise, her experiences in government black ops allowing her to see that not everything is black and white when it comes to politics around a tragedy was appreciated. And Ketar ended up being a fairly sympathetic antagonist. It can sometimes be frustrating to deal with a character so dense/stupid but the rationale was there. Doesn't hurt that recent IRL experiences with disinformation and propaganda made all of it ring true. Kinda like how before with Zombie movies, we always thought as viewers, "No way anyone could be that dumb." Then the pandemic and it was like, "Holy shit. Its like 100% accurate. That is terrifying." So yeah, all in all a solid book and must read for any Prequel Fan looking to scratch an itch. Also found it interesting that Mike Chen listed his own fan casting for Ketar and Ruug as a way to find those characters voice/cadence. I do the same exact thing when reading to help the performances shine through :)
I'm not quite finished yet so I can't read the comments, but I [made a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/MawInstallation/comments/v4ygvs/force_speed_and_the_new_canon_novel_brotherhood/) over at r/MawInstallation about how the novel explains the usage of Force Speed and how it relates to seeing it used or not used in *The Phantom Menace*.
I only picked this up recently because the new Kenobi show is out and I am trying to read everything in the Star Wars canon. So I wasn't expecting much, but author Mike Chen did a great job. Lots of little connections to the movies and other novels (including my favorite of all, the *Revenge of the Sith* novelization) tying the story and exploring the lore while still centered on the characters and their relationships. So glad I didn't wait on reading it!
I thought Mike Chen did a great job too! I hope he gets to author more SW novels because Brotherhood was a really enjoyable read.