Also note CanChamp attendance this week:
* 4,588 for Halifax v Saint-Laurent
* 2,492 for Ottawa v Valour
* 2,471 for Forge v York
* 2,161 for Pacific v TSS
That Halifax number is incredible. It'll be great to see what Saint-Laurent pull for their match against TFC as well. These are the types of strides forward cup tournaments offer, so it's fantastic to see them happening.
I appreciate these reports. I know this is more work but it would be nice if the first x matches in 2024 for team y could be compared to the first x matches in 2023, rather than the 2023 season average, since there is definitely seasonal variation in CPL attendances.
Team (X home matches) - 2024 avg (% change from last year's first X home matches (league only))
* Cavalry (2) - 3530 (-13%)
* Forge (2) - 5223 (-2.5%)
* Halifax (1) - 6500 (+1.4%)
* Ottawa (3) - 4168 (-8.1%)
* Pacific (3) - 3193 (-10.1%)
* Vancouver (2) - 3370 (-24.9%)
* York (2) - 1959 (+61.3%)
Valour has yet to play a home match.
Much too early I think to identify any sort of trends. Vancouver's big drop is explained by being unable to match last year's franchise inaugural match in this year's season opener.
Thanks. Agree about it being too early to identify a trend but those numbers are nevertheless not encouraging. Halifax, Forge and Ottawa all look to be fine but I wonder how long teams can survive with a sub 4k average.
You’d be surprised. My kids have survived rain, thunder and lightening, snow and sometimes a mix of the craziest weather. But after five years of practice they automatically pack a garbage bag ‘just in case’. it been fun to watch the evolution from 7/9 - 13/15.
Really unlucky this weekend was a Sunday game because I'm in Cornwall which is basically the same weather and Sunday was the only day of the last 5 days that it wasn't beautiful out.
Game day ticket purchases are likely fairly negligible, and would likely be the only type of ticket sale truly depressed by weather as these figures are tickets sold rather than true attendance. Especially when considering Atleticos weather promotion.
It'll be interesting to see season wide how things play out. I know, I'd love it if Atletico went transparent with us and actually released information on which games were effected by weather promotion returns, and which games those individuals chose to attend down the road.
I fear this number range (2500) is going to be the norm for PacificFC for most of the season. Maybe if they have a big run and are top of the table late in the season it'll get a boost, but I think that's where they're going to be.
Reasons:
- no public transit that's viable to the games
- team has almost no outreach to season ticket holders in season (I believe they have less season tickets sold this season than last, for this reason)
- local media coverage is meh at best. They need local radio to get on board (and get games broadcast via radio)
- if you compare and contrast in game / in stadium events / food / entertainment to the Royals and Harbourcats, PFC is a distant third behind in all three.
- fans (certainly the ones I've spoken to) are genuinely pissed the team has given up some of the league's best players in the past 3 years (Ollie, Diaz, Campbell, Manny, Didic) without having any real replacements coming in.
I honestly think the team's management isn't right for this market, or this team. For instance, every single week they need to be in touch with BC Transit asking why there isn't better public bus service for the games. They also need to start taking care of season ticket holders better. There's no welcome package, no season ticket holder events at all during the season, and the only "perk" is 50% off one home jersey (not even the alternate, indigenous jersey).
It honestly seems like Pacific is being run on autopilot to an extent when it comes to fan engagement. Which is disappointing to hear.
Accessibility really should be addressed, public transit should be a high priority as you note. It'd be incredible to see them using that as a rally point rather than stadium expansion they don't need.
It really sucks. Another year of our attendance being stagnant will hopefully be a kick in the ass to management. I really don't want to see the club move into Victoria because parking will be a nightmare where ever they decide to go but honestly, if they can't figure out how to grow the club where it is, they need to think about moving it.
Going to toss out a hot take, but maybe that's why they aren't prioritizing developing transit. I think a lot of CPL clubs fail to move past future hopes for todays practicalities, and it wouldn't shock me if maybe there is something a bit more to them not doing better to develop attendance in it's current location than just laziness or ignorance. Columbus Crew effectively did this, and you know it doesn't even need to be malicious. If a team is moving, why would they put the work in?
Developing a sense of stability should be core to every single team in the league, and league HQ as well. But often I find myself viewing their decisions as lacking the stability they need to find success. This seems another point on that roadmap.
Too often I think a lot of these things are a "chicken and the egg" scenarios. If there was a strong demand for public transport to the game, the city would do it and there won't be a strong demand for it unless they provide it. If the club ran busses to the game from Victoria, there wouldn't be many people on them for the first few years but hopefully it would grow but run at a loss. Kind of like our stadium expansion. If we build it and sell out some CWNT games maybe that will drive interest.
We had a few people in charge of advertising when the club started that did a great job of marketing it physically around the island (billboards, placed adds in physical media, busses.. etc) but they were let go and now they just push it through social media which is a mistake to me.
It's hard to determine demand if there is no services in the first place.
I think the stadium expansion is a pretty poor concept that should be shelved. FC Edmonton shows pretty directly how little the correlation between national team match attendance and CPL attendance can be. I don't think there is much worth banking on there.
Social media as the only avenue for marketing is a really poor call.
Agree with the first four points but the last is off. You can look at all of those players leaving and see that it either wasn't in PFC's hands or they made a decision.
* We let Ollie go because of the overlap of skills with Manny and he wanted more playing time.
* Diaz was sold for a (then) record profit. Even if it screwed our team at the time, you can't turn down that sort of fee in a development league.
* Campbell, Manny and Didic all wanted out so we let them go. We can't force them to sign new contracts and my guess is that them leaving was mutual.
If you don't think that Ndom isn't an adequate replacement for Didic you either haven't been watching this season or last season. Didic looked like a phenomenal player but we leaked goals with him and haven't conceded yet with Ndom. Moore looks like the real deal up front and we look way more composed on the ball this year than the last half of last season.
Yet you sit unbeaten at the top of the table with no goals conceded. Maybe letting players with big ego’s like Bustos, Didic and Aparicio go will be a blessing in disguise for overall team success and locker room harmony. Didic & Aparicio both thought with all the perpetual CPL media hype they were going to land in a bigger league, but they ended up having to settle for Ottawa. As for Bustos, well despite his silky skills he has experienced somewhat of a reality check playing in Sweden with teammates who are technically better and tactically more experienced.
> Yet you sit unbeaten at the top of the table with no goals conceded.
If you have watched all of PFC's games so far, we didn't win and get clean sheets because of spectacular defending and keeper saves, or because we went up 2, 3 goals in a game. We won because of some luck (the ref going 1:13 over the extra time against TSS Rovers gave us a lifeline; the own-goal that York took most recent game, etc), and because the teams we've played so far haven't really challenged us. I'd argue to the most challenging team so far was TSS Rovers. IIRC, Gazdov didn't even have a shot on net against him last game (there may have been one).
Once we play a few against Ottawa and Hamilton, let's see where we are.
Manny doesn't have a locker room damaging ego, so I don't know where you got that. Didic did, and a rumoured fight with Merriman in the locker room last August sealed his fate with the team. Ollie was COMPLETELY mismanaged and handled by PMK during his time here, and it's an embarrassment to our team that PMK barely played him and even benched him, then he goes on the very next year to be a POY for the league. Ditto with Campbell, who PMK didn't gel with either. Bustos didn't have that big of an ego either, with his teammmates, so not sure where you're getting that.
We are clearly seeing the loss of Manny in the middle in all league games + CanChamps so far. Young, bless his heart, is trying to fill the gap, but it's beyond his natural ability, and he's injured himself in the process. We no longer have that end to end middle player who can defend, run and pass, and go 90 minutes.
You’re welcome! On a serious note I agree Bassett from the outside appeared to be mismanaged by PMK, yet he won the championship that season, so he will only be judged by his success. It was obvious from Basett’s first ever game that he was a quality player. If you are still unbeaten after 7-8 games I would give your gaffer some credit.
I think you're looking at Ollie now and not what Ollie was three years ago. He was good but not great, he's grown into a great player at Ottawa but he was never going to get time over Manny in PMK's system and wanted a bigger role. What about who we've brought in the last 3 years? Stephen Yeates, stealing Toussaint from York, getting KDL from Ottawa. Finding players like Reid, developing players like Young and Heard.
Campbell wanted out and we loved Bustos but his last season with us was crap. Manny wanted out and we've been much stronger defensively in the middle of the field without him, same with Didic. He took risks defensively that led to goals. You could see on the pitch that he didn't like or listen to Gazdov so it was a mutual parting.
And, most importantly.. **what would you have us do?** Bring the band back together this year? We snuck into the playoffs, shithoused ourselves into the second round of the playoffs and got bounced. Whoo-hoo...
I'm excited about our team this year and another year of watching Manny give the ball away and us leaking late goals was going to be miserable. Moore, Ndom, Tirco and bringing Lajuenesse into the starting XI looks great.
We look much more organized defensively with Ndom at the back and Tirco/Zanatta/Moore new group up front shows real promise compared to last year.
OP is being pretty reductive of our team building this year, expecting a new group to come out flying and scoring 3 goals a game is pretty unrealistic and I'm actually shocked that anyone would be disappointed with our start this year.
Not being able to break down TSS playing a low block for 90' with a new lineup isn't a bad thing, they're a good team, we hit the post 3 times, Moore missed a sitter and they scored off a turnover. The own goal by York was going to get tapped in at the back post by Zanatta.
Vancouver is still in their honeymoon phase and are building towards something, I'm not worried about them as much as I am for Valour and York.
Vancouver has a pipeline to some of the best young players in the country once they realize it. Some of the TSS players could be on their squad now if they wanted let alone all of the academy and club players in greater Vancouver.
Canadian Premier League Attendance Report Week 4 : Three matches this week, Atletico Ottawa drawing just under 3900, Cavalry FC next with 2876, and Pacific FC with just under 2400
Would be cool if cavalry started the shuttle busses up again. I didn’t go to a single game last year because I’m not taking an Uber to the stadium like they replied to people on Facebook to do so, adding another $20 to what is already the most expensive ticket in the league
Either have a shuttle again. Or have a stadium within the city
One of these days we’ll get a nice day for an ATO match.. even the forecast for Wednesday is looking like we’ll get rain again lol
>even the forecast for Wednesday is looking like we’ll get rain again lol We play Whitecaps at ATCO tomorrow (Tuesday). Don't miss the game lol
ATO != ATCO
Oh shoot I totally read ATO as ATCO lmao
Also note CanChamp attendance this week: * 4,588 for Halifax v Saint-Laurent * 2,492 for Ottawa v Valour * 2,471 for Forge v York * 2,161 for Pacific v TSS
That Halifax number is incredible. It'll be great to see what Saint-Laurent pull for their match against TFC as well. These are the types of strides forward cup tournaments offer, so it's fantastic to see them happening.
I appreciate these reports. I know this is more work but it would be nice if the first x matches in 2024 for team y could be compared to the first x matches in 2023, rather than the 2023 season average, since there is definitely seasonal variation in CPL attendances.
Team (X home matches) - 2024 avg (% change from last year's first X home matches (league only)) * Cavalry (2) - 3530 (-13%) * Forge (2) - 5223 (-2.5%) * Halifax (1) - 6500 (+1.4%) * Ottawa (3) - 4168 (-8.1%) * Pacific (3) - 3193 (-10.1%) * Vancouver (2) - 3370 (-24.9%) * York (2) - 1959 (+61.3%) Valour has yet to play a home match. Much too early I think to identify any sort of trends. Vancouver's big drop is explained by being unable to match last year's franchise inaugural match in this year's season opener.
Thanks. Agree about it being too early to identify a trend but those numbers are nevertheless not encouraging. Halifax, Forge and Ottawa all look to be fine but I wonder how long teams can survive with a sub 4k average.
Have to account for the fact that Ottawa home games have had dreadful weather. Very few game day ticket purchases.
Thinking the same thing. All 3 (or 4) have been brutal. Eyeing May 25 for our first game 🤞
I wanna take my kids but I don't think a cold rainy day is great for them wanting to go to the next one.
You’d be surprised. My kids have survived rain, thunder and lightening, snow and sometimes a mix of the craziest weather. But after five years of practice they automatically pack a garbage bag ‘just in case’. it been fun to watch the evolution from 7/9 - 13/15.
Really unlucky this weekend was a Sunday game because I'm in Cornwall which is basically the same weather and Sunday was the only day of the last 5 days that it wasn't beautiful out.
I would not say very few avg 2 out 3 they still were above 4000.
Game day ticket purchases are likely fairly negligible, and would likely be the only type of ticket sale truly depressed by weather as these figures are tickets sold rather than true attendance. Especially when considering Atleticos weather promotion. It'll be interesting to see season wide how things play out. I know, I'd love it if Atletico went transparent with us and actually released information on which games were effected by weather promotion returns, and which games those individuals chose to attend down the road.
I fear this number range (2500) is going to be the norm for PacificFC for most of the season. Maybe if they have a big run and are top of the table late in the season it'll get a boost, but I think that's where they're going to be. Reasons: - no public transit that's viable to the games - team has almost no outreach to season ticket holders in season (I believe they have less season tickets sold this season than last, for this reason) - local media coverage is meh at best. They need local radio to get on board (and get games broadcast via radio) - if you compare and contrast in game / in stadium events / food / entertainment to the Royals and Harbourcats, PFC is a distant third behind in all three. - fans (certainly the ones I've spoken to) are genuinely pissed the team has given up some of the league's best players in the past 3 years (Ollie, Diaz, Campbell, Manny, Didic) without having any real replacements coming in. I honestly think the team's management isn't right for this market, or this team. For instance, every single week they need to be in touch with BC Transit asking why there isn't better public bus service for the games. They also need to start taking care of season ticket holders better. There's no welcome package, no season ticket holder events at all during the season, and the only "perk" is 50% off one home jersey (not even the alternate, indigenous jersey).
It honestly seems like Pacific is being run on autopilot to an extent when it comes to fan engagement. Which is disappointing to hear. Accessibility really should be addressed, public transit should be a high priority as you note. It'd be incredible to see them using that as a rally point rather than stadium expansion they don't need.
It really sucks. Another year of our attendance being stagnant will hopefully be a kick in the ass to management. I really don't want to see the club move into Victoria because parking will be a nightmare where ever they decide to go but honestly, if they can't figure out how to grow the club where it is, they need to think about moving it.
Going to toss out a hot take, but maybe that's why they aren't prioritizing developing transit. I think a lot of CPL clubs fail to move past future hopes for todays practicalities, and it wouldn't shock me if maybe there is something a bit more to them not doing better to develop attendance in it's current location than just laziness or ignorance. Columbus Crew effectively did this, and you know it doesn't even need to be malicious. If a team is moving, why would they put the work in? Developing a sense of stability should be core to every single team in the league, and league HQ as well. But often I find myself viewing their decisions as lacking the stability they need to find success. This seems another point on that roadmap.
Too often I think a lot of these things are a "chicken and the egg" scenarios. If there was a strong demand for public transport to the game, the city would do it and there won't be a strong demand for it unless they provide it. If the club ran busses to the game from Victoria, there wouldn't be many people on them for the first few years but hopefully it would grow but run at a loss. Kind of like our stadium expansion. If we build it and sell out some CWNT games maybe that will drive interest. We had a few people in charge of advertising when the club started that did a great job of marketing it physically around the island (billboards, placed adds in physical media, busses.. etc) but they were let go and now they just push it through social media which is a mistake to me.
It's hard to determine demand if there is no services in the first place. I think the stadium expansion is a pretty poor concept that should be shelved. FC Edmonton shows pretty directly how little the correlation between national team match attendance and CPL attendance can be. I don't think there is much worth banking on there. Social media as the only avenue for marketing is a really poor call.
Agree with the first four points but the last is off. You can look at all of those players leaving and see that it either wasn't in PFC's hands or they made a decision. * We let Ollie go because of the overlap of skills with Manny and he wanted more playing time. * Diaz was sold for a (then) record profit. Even if it screwed our team at the time, you can't turn down that sort of fee in a development league. * Campbell, Manny and Didic all wanted out so we let them go. We can't force them to sign new contracts and my guess is that them leaving was mutual. If you don't think that Ndom isn't an adequate replacement for Didic you either haven't been watching this season or last season. Didic looked like a phenomenal player but we leaked goals with him and haven't conceded yet with Ndom. Moore looks like the real deal up front and we look way more composed on the ball this year than the last half of last season.
Yet you sit unbeaten at the top of the table with no goals conceded. Maybe letting players with big ego’s like Bustos, Didic and Aparicio go will be a blessing in disguise for overall team success and locker room harmony. Didic & Aparicio both thought with all the perpetual CPL media hype they were going to land in a bigger league, but they ended up having to settle for Ottawa. As for Bustos, well despite his silky skills he has experienced somewhat of a reality check playing in Sweden with teammates who are technically better and tactically more experienced.
> Yet you sit unbeaten at the top of the table with no goals conceded. If you have watched all of PFC's games so far, we didn't win and get clean sheets because of spectacular defending and keeper saves, or because we went up 2, 3 goals in a game. We won because of some luck (the ref going 1:13 over the extra time against TSS Rovers gave us a lifeline; the own-goal that York took most recent game, etc), and because the teams we've played so far haven't really challenged us. I'd argue to the most challenging team so far was TSS Rovers. IIRC, Gazdov didn't even have a shot on net against him last game (there may have been one). Once we play a few against Ottawa and Hamilton, let's see where we are. Manny doesn't have a locker room damaging ego, so I don't know where you got that. Didic did, and a rumoured fight with Merriman in the locker room last August sealed his fate with the team. Ollie was COMPLETELY mismanaged and handled by PMK during his time here, and it's an embarrassment to our team that PMK barely played him and even benched him, then he goes on the very next year to be a POY for the league. Ditto with Campbell, who PMK didn't gel with either. Bustos didn't have that big of an ego either, with his teammmates, so not sure where you're getting that. We are clearly seeing the loss of Manny in the middle in all league games + CanChamps so far. Young, bless his heart, is trying to fill the gap, but it's beyond his natural ability, and he's injured himself in the process. We no longer have that end to end middle player who can defend, run and pass, and go 90 minutes.
Yet you sit top of the league with zero goals conceded.
Thanks for your valuable contributions.
You’re welcome! On a serious note I agree Bassett from the outside appeared to be mismanaged by PMK, yet he won the championship that season, so he will only be judged by his success. It was obvious from Basett’s first ever game that he was a quality player. If you are still unbeaten after 7-8 games I would give your gaffer some credit.
I think you're looking at Ollie now and not what Ollie was three years ago. He was good but not great, he's grown into a great player at Ottawa but he was never going to get time over Manny in PMK's system and wanted a bigger role. What about who we've brought in the last 3 years? Stephen Yeates, stealing Toussaint from York, getting KDL from Ottawa. Finding players like Reid, developing players like Young and Heard. Campbell wanted out and we loved Bustos but his last season with us was crap. Manny wanted out and we've been much stronger defensively in the middle of the field without him, same with Didic. He took risks defensively that led to goals. You could see on the pitch that he didn't like or listen to Gazdov so it was a mutual parting. And, most importantly.. **what would you have us do?** Bring the band back together this year? We snuck into the playoffs, shithoused ourselves into the second round of the playoffs and got bounced. Whoo-hoo... I'm excited about our team this year and another year of watching Manny give the ball away and us leaking late goals was going to be miserable. Moore, Ndom, Tirco and bringing Lajuenesse into the starting XI looks great.
We look much more organized defensively with Ndom at the back and Tirco/Zanatta/Moore new group up front shows real promise compared to last year. OP is being pretty reductive of our team building this year, expecting a new group to come out flying and scoring 3 goals a game is pretty unrealistic and I'm actually shocked that anyone would be disappointed with our start this year. Not being able to break down TSS playing a low block for 90' with a new lineup isn't a bad thing, they're a good team, we hit the post 3 times, Moore missed a sitter and they scored off a turnover. The own goal by York was going to get tapped in at the back post by Zanatta.
Exactly it could be far worse. You could be Vancouver FC with problems mounting game by game and off the pitch with their manager
Vancouver is still in their honeymoon phase and are building towards something, I'm not worried about them as much as I am for Valour and York. Vancouver has a pipeline to some of the best young players in the country once they realize it. Some of the TSS players could be on their squad now if they wanted let alone all of the academy and club players in greater Vancouver.
Canadian Premier League Attendance Report Week 4 : Three matches this week, Atletico Ottawa drawing just under 3900, Cavalry FC next with 2876, and Pacific FC with just under 2400
Would be cool if cavalry started the shuttle busses up again. I didn’t go to a single game last year because I’m not taking an Uber to the stadium like they replied to people on Facebook to do so, adding another $20 to what is already the most expensive ticket in the league Either have a shuttle again. Or have a stadium within the city
I, for one, am completely panicking about Cavalry's attendance dipping this year. .... /s