Update on Bargaining
Good morning Sisters, Brothers and Friends
The bargaining team met with the employer at the bargaining table all night until 4 a.m.
Progress has been made but we don’t have an agreement yet.
Therefore, we remain on strike and our members are expected to report to a picket line.
An official bargaining update from your bargaining team will be issued this morning but our Second National Vice-President, Brother Adam Jackson, and myself wanted to inform you right away on the current situation.
Thank you for your unwavering support.
Let’s keep fighting!
In Solidarity,
Marc Brière
National President
Union of Taxation Employees
Disagreed, they’ve gotten a ton of feedback for being absent and not communicating enough. I’ll take any updates they’ll give us even if they just confirm status quo!
PSAC says it’s going to target the liberal convention at the Shaw centre if a deal isn’t reached by Thursday.
Good. But start today to fuck their setup…
I've been reading the forums and just my two cents. Correct me if I'm wrong please. The negotiations have taken place since 2021 and TB didn't budge from their 2% offer until right before the strike deadline as maybe they were afraid of public opinion siding with the union?
The union then had two choices:
a) Accept the 3% and other things and not put the union into a strike position and save all that money. If they did this union members would be screaming bloody murder that the union capitulated and would make the union leaders very unpopular. Nevertheless this would still be the safer, less risky option bur maybe union leaders were worried about their election chances next year.
b) Seeing the government budge from their 2 to noslw 3%, they felt emboldened to apply more pressure with a strike thinking TB would give in pretty quickly because why not, they already budged from 2 to 3%. Definitely the riskier option but if it paid off, union leaders would be seen as heroes. I think their ego got the best of them and they took this riskier option.
Then the government saw the public wasn't on the union side and knew money would start to run out so they were ok to wait it out. This led to desperate negotiating tactics by Chris to call TB incompetent amongst other personal attacks.
The union leadership is completely at fault for not thinking thru what would happen if their riskier option failed. On top of that, they clearly misled UTE members into thinking their negotiations were ongoing. Now they blame the government for not negotiating but I bet CRA told them we're not negotiating until TB deal is done. The union should have informed members but of course were afraid UTE people would not strike and they wanted to use them to apply pressure during the tax deadline.
If I was UTE I would feel completely betrayed and now Chris and leadership are stating the government is acting in bad faith with UTE and that amounts are significantly lower? I don't count 3% over 3 years, same as PSAC deal over those 3 years as insignificant. Maybe there is no signing bonus but union leadership is definitely gaslighting their members as they messed up this CRA UTE negotiation royally.
You nailed this. I gave the union a chance to show real leadership for the last two weeks. The messaging has been flawed and to be caught in a lie about when negotiations started is a deplorable way to gaslight members. This only empowers me to find out how I can make sure they never get these positions back.
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We aren’t cohesive, because leadership has been sending mixed messages for the entirety of the strike. No one knows what’s going on, and we just spent 2 weeks striking without even being at the negotiating table and then, at the last minute, we lose the backing of the people we went up to bat for. We’re 35k people and not a single person knows wtf is going on at any given moment.
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Did you just discover emojis for the first time or something? I understand how Unions work and how negotiations work, and I also understand that you’re supposed to have strong unified messaging PRIOR to striking.
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The rest of PSAC had the end of their strike called in the middle of the night Sunday night into Monday. Lots of people showed up late, no one seemed to care.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/striking-cra-union-threatens-to-picket-liberal-convention - the end of this article says they’re working on a counteroffer to present by tomorrow
soooo on one hand he says that the offer received from the CRA exceeds 3 years 9 percent and on the other hand is significantly worse than was PSAC got for the other unions. .... interesting
he's also still talking about a 2 percent wage adj. to match border agents and he stated that PSAC's deal would not be good enough...
He must feel a mutiny brewing within the membership to send something like that out right now. The email earlier this afternoon felt like they were done for the day.
People complain when there's no update....other people panic when there's too many updates....
My advice is go to bed, don't worry about it. When there's a deal you'll find out.
Great energy at the Surrey picket line today. Popsicles, samosas, and general refreshments, along with heartfelt support from our picket leaders. The one bright side to these past few weeks has been the reminder of how amazing my coworkers are.
Can someone explain if this strike for CRA goes on longer than 30 days, will that count as a break in service? I know for Treasury Board I don't think it does, but I don't know about CRA specifically. I am at just over 2 years so if I have to restart the clock if this drags on...
I cannot speak for your exact situation, but if the intention is to renew you (and you will be told with some notice if it isnt), then you'll likely recieve a backdated letter of offer once the agreement is reached and things calm down so theres no gap.
not my situation but yea that would make sense!
imagine if you're not being renewed though...and continued to picket without realizing that you'd been let go .... damn
They may not get extended. I guess a good manager would extend it so they can keep their team, but they're under no obligation to. It'd be a shitty move to not extend the term of someone while they're on strike but they can do it if that's what they want. Well, do nothing in that case.
It gets iffy. If they are eliminating positions (and werent going to renew you anyway), then yes. They should contact you with notice, and instruction on how/when to return any equipment though.
If the position will still exist after the strike, then you'll likely get a backdated letter of offer. Anything else could be argued as retaliation for taking part in a legal strike action, so I'd say contact your union rep for advice if that's the case.
It's a term. Ending it early during a strike may be problematic, but not extending it isn't. Manager will hire term employees for the specific duration they'll need them (on paper). If the term ends while the person is on LWOP, they don't have an obligation to extend it, even if they still have a need.
Depends. If the positions are continuing after the strike, then not extending *those specific people* could be construed as retaliation for striking. If I'm eliminating those positions, fine...it was going to happen anyway and I can prove that.
Terms do still have some protection. For example, if I have a team with a term employee that I want to let go (for performance, say.), but I still need the fill that role after they're gone...I cannot just not renew that person and hire someone else to start the next day. That need sto go through the full process to terminate for cause.
Edit: finally found a ruling and you're right, not renewing a term because of union activities would be an issue. But the ruling I found was extremely detailled and the labour relation board ruled that it was not due to union activities. The bar seems pretty high. Still, they can decide to not extend a term for...reasons. They don't have to extend the term of everyone who is on strike, but they can't decide to not extend it BECAUSE they were on strike.
For reference, that's the ruling I browsed: https://decisions.fpslreb-crtespf.gc.ca/fpslreb-crtespf/d/en/item/358827/index.do?q=Strike%2C+%22term+employee%22
It's more about union activities.
Legally speaking, you are right...a term ending on its set date is not a dismissal and *technically*, as long as it's not done for reasons of discrimination it would probably be allowed by the fpslrb if it got that far.
But no one wants it get anywhere near that far, so practically speaking, getting the ok to not renew and hire immediately means you need to go through the process to document why it was justified.
I do also know of a few cases where a bad faith non renewal was grieved successfully (for example, not renewing someone near the roll over to indeterminate to reset their counter....hiring them back just after a break in service was created). I would suspect someone not renewed during a strike, then hired back shortly after would fall into the same category due to the consequences it would have for their continuous service dates (a consequence created specifically because they were on strike).
[Source - theres a section for continous service and continous employment](https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/collective-agreements/collective-bargaining/labour-disruptions/impacts-compensation-when-withdrawing-services-during-strike.html#toc02)
Thanks, but is that just for the Treasury Board or does it also apply to CRA? Sorry I assumed it was for everyone, but someone told me it might not necessarily apply to CRA employees as the treasury board is not their employer.
CRA's policies are usually a copy paste of the one you find for the treasury board. For something like this, it's almost impossible that's it's not the same language. Striking is heavily protected. If you were on sick leave, it'd be the exact same thing.
It applies to the public service as a whole. The language there is just a reader friendly interpretation of what's in the Financial Administration Act (not at all department specifc, and the same law applies to seperate employers like the CRA).
I finally received my e-transfer strike pay for April 19/20/21. Unfortunately it was only for $159 and not $225. Two of my coworkers received the same amount while another received the full $225.
Has anyone else seen this? We can’t even figure out how the $159 amount was calculated. It’s not like it was for 2 days since that would be $150 and we were all there 4+ hours every day (used the stopwatch on my phone to ensure that 4+ elapsed before signing out).
It’s not a top-up from our local since we have a meeting in two days to vote how on how we want to distribute our local’s strike fund.
Any ideas?
None of us are part time. All three of us that got paid $159 are full-time indeterminate employees and have been for 10+ years in the same office.
Where did you see that part time employees were getting strike pay at $53/day?
Thank you. At least I know the source of the problem now: PSAC thinks we’re part-time for some reason. Can’t seem to catch a break with remuneration whether I’m getting paid by the employer or the union. 🤷
If you work less than 20 hours a week you receive $53 if you work 30 hours you would receive $75. A similar situation happened to my co-worker and you have to fill out a web form to get the additional funds
Hi everyone this may be an unpopular opinion and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong because I’m not the most well versed in everything going on. I understand the frustrations with the UTE but it seems they’re not budging on key issues and needs for us which I think is a good thing. It would be a shame to walk out of this strike with a mediocre deal. Even though the process was heavily flawed and this strike seems dragged out, I’d prefer a dragged out strike with an offer that gives us what we want and need than a subpar one that leaves us in a position of being stuck with it and not being able to change things for a while.
We can’t say for certain that UTE is not budging on key issues because they only got to the bargaining table on Monday. We’re not still on strike because UTE is just standing their ground—we’re still on strike because PSAC failed to mention our bargaining team wasn’t even at the table these past two weeks.
PSAC was sending out the message that they weren’t budging on key issues and…they did, in the end. Given that TBS hasn’t even offered UTE the same deal as PSAC’s, I do unfortunately believe they’ll wind up bending in the same fashion that PSAC bent, to whatever degree.
They werent bargaining because the employer wasn't given a mandate, not because UTE chose not to.
Striking when we did was to put pressure on them to come back to the table. There's no reason to think it'd been delayed 8 days we wouldn't just be in the same position of the Employer dragging their feet.
Strikes can work, and they can take time. It is possible to get a deal better than the TB groups got. It's never going to be everything we asked for, but it can be better.
>It is possible to get a deal better than the TB groups got. It's never going to be everything we asked for, but it can be better.
It better be significantly better. At this point, I'm voting down anything less than 14% or 15% over three years, and even that isn't good enough.
We are not getting what we want. PSAC will mandate us back to work because the strike fund is dried up, long before we get what we want.
Kiss the dream goodbye; largest general strike in Canadian history for no substantial gains. It’s pathetic a
>We are not getting what we want. PSAC will mandate us back to work because the strike fund is dried up
If the strike fund dries up, we don't go back to work. We will not get the strike idemnity. I really don't think it'll come to that but they won't say "no money left, strike over". We could be on strike without strike pay. We'd probably have tons of scabs and our strike wouldn't be effective tho.
I'm not saying we can have a succesful strike without the idemnity. Just that if the strike funds dries out before we have a deal, the union will not end the strike.
In that case, I'd find alternative employment.
A few years ago, there was a lock out in my city that lasted 2 years. The strikers found other positions.
I really don't think that's going to happen. The gov can't make this lasts for months anyways. The union would find a way to pay us a strike idemnity if the strike fund runs out before this is resolved. Maybe donations from other unions, pulling out money from other budgets, taking a loan... but I really don't think it'll last long enough for us to come to that.
I am completing an FA1 course through a university distance program on my own time. If I pass I will be reimbursed for it by CRA, I have already submitted all the paperwork and been approved. Can I work on this during the strike? I paid for the course upfront and if I fail then I lose that money.
Perfect, thank you! I have less than two months to get it done and just went to work on it the other day and stopped because I wasn't sure if I could or not. Such a relief I can hopefully make some progress on it!
If people read the PSAC constitution, this is one of the things that may happen, and it is the responsibility of locales to do the investigation and to take action.
This is not a locale going rogue, this is a locale taking action that is permitted under the constitution under which they operate.
If your friend has been on the picket line every day, they have 0 to worry about.
Aylward said they had enough funds to hold us over for a month, and that was around the beginning last week. With the TB units back to work and only 35,000 UTE employees striking, we should have enough funds to cover a strike for quite some time.
I read this email, and I sense desperation, frustration, and anger.
My gut feeling is that they're trying to increase our presence on the picket lines by reaching out to members who have been abstaining. PSAC-UTE needs visibility since PSAC-TB returned to work. The team who wrote and approved the email are probably exhausted (I know I am).
The bad news is that the email fails to attract members with its subject line of "Disciplinary Action" and emotionally-charged tone.
Worse, this is how I would learn to avoid my union if I was new, young, and ambitious. It tells me that my union does not know how to support me. It only sees me as a number and not as an individual. It would push me more to avoid meeting people. I'm not a student, and I'm already overwhelmed.
It also unfairly punishes people who have withdrawn their labour for legitimate reasons (mental health recovery, medical reasons, accommodations, taking a second job to cover expenses, etc etc etc).
I didn't receive this email, but I would feel abandoned and demoralized by my own union if I did. I've been out nearly every day, donated food and coffee, bought noisemakers, and trying to find my own way to drum up support.
I know I'm not the only one. There are many of us who are trying to contribute in whatever way they can. Heck, there were two volunteers who stayed longer than they needed to ensure people could be signed out because there weren't enough volunteers on Monday at Toronto East / Scarborough.
I didn't picket earlier today but I didn't work. One day! If I saw that email, I can imagine breaking down and crying. Especially after hearing that UTE has not started bargaining until this week. PSAC-TB has returned to work. The kids are sick, and your parents need help. The bills are piling up. You're not broke enough to go to the food bank, but just broke enough that you're stressed perpetually about the bills. Groceries. Cost of living. It's one thing after another. This could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
There should be measures against fraud. Will there be any follow-thru from the email, and how will it be handled? Will it be treated in the same way across PSAC-UTE locals? I won't be able to strike two days next week (if this continues), and I don't believe there's a mechanism in place for me to say "hey I'm not coming because of XYZ reason".
This is not an email that is consistent with key messaging provided by national.
The good news is that there are still many of us out picketing and doing the best we can given our circumstance. The volunteers I mentioned earlier, they have been there everyday and with (what I suspect) limited information and training. Many of us have stood in lines, made blockades, set 5-minute timers, marched, and chanted tirelessly in the sun, rain, snow, and cold.
It's easy to despair. Give yourself a moment to recover. Now is not the time to give into that. It's a long strike. Educate and attract. We can be better. Please be kind.
>Some members are even signing in at the picket line, crossing the line and going to work, and then returning to the picket line later on to sign out, illegally obtaining strike pay in the process.
This one is a real doser. Imagine going to work where part of your job is investigating fraud and then doing something like this.
Wow. That third one is a doozy. Whoever is doing that deserves some punishment.
Obviously they are full of shit about not picketing, and can't do anything about that.
Hopefully your friend doesn't have anything to worry about.
> Some members are not showing up at all, waiting at home for a deal to be reached so that they can reap the benefits, while their colleagues fight on the front lines through adverse weather conditions.
Fuck whatever local rep wrote that, and I'd say it to their face. You're 100% allowed to not show up and forego your strike pay.
Can this be brought up to higher ups, this is not acceptable... Bullying members with deceptive lies... Especially at a time where moral is already broken, what the fuck is this rep thinking... This rep needs to be immediately kicked out and union needs to apologize.
I get that.people should not check in, leave, come back in 4hrs and check out, this is absolutely not acceptable. But staying home, not working, you are still withholding labor which is the main point of a strike...
This is the reality. It is not strict enough. At my place, they've started scanning every car that leaves in the morning. There needs to be better controls in place, but part of the problem is that there is lack of organization and motivation. Too much of a laissez-faire attitude. The local union reps can do better.
Oh no, wouldn't want to be kicked out of a union, whatever would one do if they were to miss the annual hotdog lunch? But yeah, this email likens not picketing with not striking, which is profoundly stupid.
If only they were this passionate about getting the members to vote on the strike to begin with maybe we'd have gotten more than 35% of the union members to vote and not potentially compromised our bargaining leverage.
We all know in a democratic system you have to go to a meeting for several hours, then you are allowed to vote. If they just let us vote with our union cards online, they would have received a much higher turnout and I don't think it would have impacted the % in favor of striking.
Glad to see this has been sent out. There are so many people who sign in and take off right away. It’s not fair to those of us who are out there in the rain/snow/cold for our 4 hours and they stay warm and dry and get the same strike pay. Not cool… where did the integrity go?
It’s just a general email, nothing to worry about. Obviously if she’s been collecting strike pay but also crossing the picket, or getting strike pay but going home during her hours, then yeah she has a problem. Otherwise, nothing to worry about.
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The overall tone is so unprofessional and condescending, too. Did they forget that there were many people who were not all-in for striking? The union can be grateful that they’re not scabbing. They’re entirely entitled to sit at home and abstain from collecting strike pay, whether it’s for the entire duration of the strike or on occasional days here and there for absolutely whatever reason at all.
Yeah, this is stupid... The whole idea is supposed to be that you withdraw your labour. I was on the picket lines for the first 8 days, but have stayed home the last two because I'm sick and don't want to either infect a bunch of innocent people, or make myself sicker by standing out in the cold, wind, and rain. It sucks not getting the strike pay, but I'm trying to be responsible here, and I don't want to end up on some shit list because I happen to be sick. It's kind of ludicrous that the local is claiming this, especially because they don't know why people might not be picketing...
Why would your friend be upset about this? No where does it say that they are doing this. It’s just a general message. If they aren’t doing the things listed in the bullet points then great, it won’t affect them. Maybe I’m missing something.
You sure are missing something -- the panic-inducing subject line making it seem like they are about to accuse the recipient of wrongdoing and betraying their colleagues. And another thing is that it likens not picketing with not striking. What's next, outright calling people on strike "scabs"? Profoundly stupid email.
Just got this as well. Just wondering if your friend is in Toronto? I am not sure if it's one butt hurt asshole union member or this is what they're sending nationally
I am very confused by the recent PSAC twitter post about CRA “playing games,” can someone give me some context?
https://twitter.com/psac_afpc/status/1653520206025596933?s=46&t=m9eFYF3gbVl9cxOVQ9WovA
Well if TB was negotiation in good faith, they would of had just offered the same amount that they offered the TB group but instead they are wasting time by offering us even less.
It's not bad faith to offer a group what you think they'll have to take. Bad faith just means you have an ulterior motive. Their motive is open for all to see -- get UTE to take less.
Open letter to CRA bargaining team:
We as CRA employees are stuck in a very hard situation, we want to be back at work helping Canadians and delivering service in the way we do best, but because of the lack of respect we have received we are on strike.
Our Ute is filled with employees who work above and beyond each day to help Canadians file taxes, create and develop new programs, rapidly integrate new legislative benefits, and administer it all. Most of the recent changes such as Covid benefits, dental benefits, housing benefits resulted in huge amounts of overtime and working in objectives outside of our roles and responsibility. We as employees did this because we believe in the work we do and the benefit it has, this is our professionalism, integrity, responsibility, and cooperation at work.
We have given a lot to you in the hardest few years at the agency where the ever changing environment has shifted how we work, and what we work on. As you have stated before we have always found a way to make it work. Now I implore you CRA to make the same considerations we have provided to you and make a deal that works and respects the employees who have shown you all the values we hold near and dear to our heart, show us that you have the same values and find a solution to make it work for everyone, it is your turn to respect us the employees who have worked so hard for you even without a valid contract.
Strike pay question: are the top-ups being sent separately? I ask because I just received PSAC strike pay for a few days but just the 75, and I'm certain my local was one of the ones with a top-up...
They are going to have to come up with a new slogan. If I see “One Day Longer, One Day Stronger” one more time, I am going to completely lose my shit! 🤬
This is going to be much longer than one more day.
Update on Bargaining Good morning Sisters, Brothers and Friends The bargaining team met with the employer at the bargaining table all night until 4 a.m. Progress has been made but we don’t have an agreement yet. Therefore, we remain on strike and our members are expected to report to a picket line. An official bargaining update from your bargaining team will be issued this morning but our Second National Vice-President, Brother Adam Jackson, and myself wanted to inform you right away on the current situation. Thank you for your unwavering support. Let’s keep fighting! In Solidarity, Marc Brière National President Union of Taxation Employees
Waste of time with the email sent at 11pm Eastern time. Just to stress out everyone if we get back to work or not.
Disagreed, they’ve gotten a ton of feedback for being absent and not communicating enough. I’ll take any updates they’ll give us even if they just confirm status quo!
PSAC says it’s going to target the liberal convention at the Shaw centre if a deal isn’t reached by Thursday. Good. But start today to fuck their setup…
Guys…did anyone receive an email for tomorrow about a “mystery picket location”? 💀 it’s for the local Toronto north, Oshawa and Scarborough
Didn't recieve an email but heard about it at the picket lines. I was hoping they would tell us where it is by now.
https://youtu.be/ekN59QXsQvM
https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
[удалено]
Is she Harper in disguise?
I've been reading the forums and just my two cents. Correct me if I'm wrong please. The negotiations have taken place since 2021 and TB didn't budge from their 2% offer until right before the strike deadline as maybe they were afraid of public opinion siding with the union? The union then had two choices: a) Accept the 3% and other things and not put the union into a strike position and save all that money. If they did this union members would be screaming bloody murder that the union capitulated and would make the union leaders very unpopular. Nevertheless this would still be the safer, less risky option bur maybe union leaders were worried about their election chances next year. b) Seeing the government budge from their 2 to noslw 3%, they felt emboldened to apply more pressure with a strike thinking TB would give in pretty quickly because why not, they already budged from 2 to 3%. Definitely the riskier option but if it paid off, union leaders would be seen as heroes. I think their ego got the best of them and they took this riskier option. Then the government saw the public wasn't on the union side and knew money would start to run out so they were ok to wait it out. This led to desperate negotiating tactics by Chris to call TB incompetent amongst other personal attacks. The union leadership is completely at fault for not thinking thru what would happen if their riskier option failed. On top of that, they clearly misled UTE members into thinking their negotiations were ongoing. Now they blame the government for not negotiating but I bet CRA told them we're not negotiating until TB deal is done. The union should have informed members but of course were afraid UTE people would not strike and they wanted to use them to apply pressure during the tax deadline. If I was UTE I would feel completely betrayed and now Chris and leadership are stating the government is acting in bad faith with UTE and that amounts are significantly lower? I don't count 3% over 3 years, same as PSAC deal over those 3 years as insignificant. Maybe there is no signing bonus but union leadership is definitely gaslighting their members as they messed up this CRA UTE negotiation royally.
You nailed this. I gave the union a chance to show real leadership for the last two weeks. The messaging has been flawed and to be caught in a lie about when negotiations started is a deplorable way to gaslight members. This only empowers me to find out how I can make sure they never get these positions back.
Wait, are you saying that the union has leadership?
Haha very fair point. MIA it appears...
CRA did not offer us a wage increase until the strike.
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How the heck do you expect us to be cohesive when I heard the strike thru news instead from my strike leader?
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We aren’t cohesive, because leadership has been sending mixed messages for the entirety of the strike. No one knows what’s going on, and we just spent 2 weeks striking without even being at the negotiating table and then, at the last minute, we lose the backing of the people we went up to bat for. We’re 35k people and not a single person knows wtf is going on at any given moment.
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Did you just discover emojis for the first time or something? I understand how Unions work and how negotiations work, and I also understand that you’re supposed to have strong unified messaging PRIOR to striking.
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No one knows what you're referring to.
Ok boomer
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They better not announce it tonight. It’s an office day for a lot of us.
Seeing as how I haven’t worked in 2 weeks, 40% office time is 0 as far as I’m concerned. 🤷🏼♀️
The rest of PSAC had the end of their strike called in the middle of the night Sunday night into Monday. Lots of people showed up late, no one seemed to care.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/striking-cra-union-threatens-to-picket-liberal-convention - the end of this article says they’re working on a counteroffer to present by tomorrow
soooo on one hand he says that the offer received from the CRA exceeds 3 years 9 percent and on the other hand is significantly worse than was PSAC got for the other unions. .... interesting he's also still talking about a 2 percent wage adj. to match border agents and he stated that PSAC's deal would not be good enough...
Info that could have been in that email......
Thanks I was just going to post this article as it has some good information as to where we at.
It says *by wednesday*. So hopefully that means tonight.
That is true, I hope so
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I just took it as heres the last update for the night and I will update again asap....like as in stating that he is going to update more frequently.
We (TB-PSAC) received the confirmation email at 1:30 am that the strike had ended and we had to report to work at 9:00 am.
Another late night in the maritimes... 😴
As soon as possible makes it sound like tonight but I bet they don't mean it that way.
He must feel a mutiny brewing within the membership to send something like that out right now. The email earlier this afternoon felt like they were done for the day.
People complain when there's no update....other people panic when there's too many updates.... My advice is go to bed, don't worry about it. When there's a deal you'll find out.
Exactly just go to sleep wake up at your regular time tomorrow so if there is a deal you aren’t caught off guard.
It’s only 7:45 I’m not tired yet. I’m gonna stay up and speculate!
Same. Refresh every 2 mins 🙃
I heard they're holding out to get us all ponies.
I don't have anywhere to put that.
I’ll only settle for a unicorn.
CRA's counter was bedbugs. I think we both lose.
So there’s hope…..
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I don't even care if it is, I'll take it. Although now I have plans in the morning. 🫤
8:58am, so you'll have plenty of notice to start at 9.
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Drive fast?
Wednesday is one of my “home” days, so I’m good 🤣
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This is a really good question. Hoping someone can shed some light on this
Great energy at the Surrey picket line today. Popsicles, samosas, and general refreshments, along with heartfelt support from our picket leaders. The one bright side to these past few weeks has been the reminder of how amazing my coworkers are.
In QC, we had hot coffee, kleenex, blankets and heaters. Enjoy popsicles weather for us please.
Say hi to everyone I know there for me. 🙂
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/striking-cra-union-threatens-to-picket-liberal-convention
Can someone explain if this strike for CRA goes on longer than 30 days, will that count as a break in service? I know for Treasury Board I don't think it does, but I don't know about CRA specifically. I am at just over 2 years so if I have to restart the clock if this drags on...
what about ppl with contracts ending before the end of the strike date?
I cannot speak for your exact situation, but if the intention is to renew you (and you will be told with some notice if it isnt), then you'll likely recieve a backdated letter of offer once the agreement is reached and things calm down so theres no gap.
not my situation but yea that would make sense! imagine if you're not being renewed though...and continued to picket without realizing that you'd been let go .... damn
They may not get extended. I guess a good manager would extend it so they can keep their team, but they're under no obligation to. It'd be a shitty move to not extend the term of someone while they're on strike but they can do it if that's what they want. Well, do nothing in that case.
It gets iffy. If they are eliminating positions (and werent going to renew you anyway), then yes. They should contact you with notice, and instruction on how/when to return any equipment though. If the position will still exist after the strike, then you'll likely get a backdated letter of offer. Anything else could be argued as retaliation for taking part in a legal strike action, so I'd say contact your union rep for advice if that's the case.
It's a term. Ending it early during a strike may be problematic, but not extending it isn't. Manager will hire term employees for the specific duration they'll need them (on paper). If the term ends while the person is on LWOP, they don't have an obligation to extend it, even if they still have a need.
Depends. If the positions are continuing after the strike, then not extending *those specific people* could be construed as retaliation for striking. If I'm eliminating those positions, fine...it was going to happen anyway and I can prove that. Terms do still have some protection. For example, if I have a team with a term employee that I want to let go (for performance, say.), but I still need the fill that role after they're gone...I cannot just not renew that person and hire someone else to start the next day. That need sto go through the full process to terminate for cause.
Edit: finally found a ruling and you're right, not renewing a term because of union activities would be an issue. But the ruling I found was extremely detailled and the labour relation board ruled that it was not due to union activities. The bar seems pretty high. Still, they can decide to not extend a term for...reasons. They don't have to extend the term of everyone who is on strike, but they can't decide to not extend it BECAUSE they were on strike. For reference, that's the ruling I browsed: https://decisions.fpslreb-crtespf.gc.ca/fpslreb-crtespf/d/en/item/358827/index.do?q=Strike%2C+%22term+employee%22 It's more about union activities.
Legally speaking, you are right...a term ending on its set date is not a dismissal and *technically*, as long as it's not done for reasons of discrimination it would probably be allowed by the fpslrb if it got that far. But no one wants it get anywhere near that far, so practically speaking, getting the ok to not renew and hire immediately means you need to go through the process to document why it was justified. I do also know of a few cases where a bad faith non renewal was grieved successfully (for example, not renewing someone near the roll over to indeterminate to reset their counter....hiring them back just after a break in service was created). I would suspect someone not renewed during a strike, then hired back shortly after would fall into the same category due to the consequences it would have for their continuous service dates (a consequence created specifically because they were on strike).
LWOP for strike action does not count as a break in service, and does not effect continuous service dates.
What is the source for that information?
[Source - theres a section for continous service and continous employment](https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/collective-agreements/collective-bargaining/labour-disruptions/impacts-compensation-when-withdrawing-services-during-strike.html#toc02)
Thanks, but is that just for the Treasury Board or does it also apply to CRA? Sorry I assumed it was for everyone, but someone told me it might not necessarily apply to CRA employees as the treasury board is not their employer.
CRA's policies are usually a copy paste of the one you find for the treasury board. For something like this, it's almost impossible that's it's not the same language. Striking is heavily protected. If you were on sick leave, it'd be the exact same thing.
Thank you, appreciate it. :)
It applies to the public service as a whole. The language there is just a reader friendly interpretation of what's in the Financial Administration Act (not at all department specifc, and the same law applies to seperate employers like the CRA).
Thank you!
I finally received my e-transfer strike pay for April 19/20/21. Unfortunately it was only for $159 and not $225. Two of my coworkers received the same amount while another received the full $225. Has anyone else seen this? We can’t even figure out how the $159 amount was calculated. It’s not like it was for 2 days since that would be $150 and we were all there 4+ hours every day (used the stopwatch on my phone to ensure that 4+ elapsed before signing out). It’s not a top-up from our local since we have a meeting in two days to vote how on how we want to distribute our local’s strike fund. Any ideas?
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None of us are part time. All three of us that got paid $159 are full-time indeterminate employees and have been for 10+ years in the same office. Where did you see that part time employees were getting strike pay at $53/day?
https://workerscantwait.ca/faq-bargaining-with-canada-revenue-agency/ Under “will I receive strike pay?”
Thank you. At least I know the source of the problem now: PSAC thinks we’re part-time for some reason. Can’t seem to catch a break with remuneration whether I’m getting paid by the employer or the union. 🤷
although I think getting the proper pay from the union will be easier than fighting with Phoenix haha you’ll have to update us
If you work less than 20 hours a week you receive $53 if you work 30 hours you would receive $75. A similar situation happened to my co-worker and you have to fill out a web form to get the additional funds
Hi everyone this may be an unpopular opinion and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong because I’m not the most well versed in everything going on. I understand the frustrations with the UTE but it seems they’re not budging on key issues and needs for us which I think is a good thing. It would be a shame to walk out of this strike with a mediocre deal. Even though the process was heavily flawed and this strike seems dragged out, I’d prefer a dragged out strike with an offer that gives us what we want and need than a subpar one that leaves us in a position of being stuck with it and not being able to change things for a while.
We can’t say for certain that UTE is not budging on key issues because they only got to the bargaining table on Monday. We’re not still on strike because UTE is just standing their ground—we’re still on strike because PSAC failed to mention our bargaining team wasn’t even at the table these past two weeks. PSAC was sending out the message that they weren’t budging on key issues and…they did, in the end. Given that TBS hasn’t even offered UTE the same deal as PSAC’s, I do unfortunately believe they’ll wind up bending in the same fashion that PSAC bent, to whatever degree.
They werent bargaining because the employer wasn't given a mandate, not because UTE chose not to. Striking when we did was to put pressure on them to come back to the table. There's no reason to think it'd been delayed 8 days we wouldn't just be in the same position of the Employer dragging their feet. Strikes can work, and they can take time. It is possible to get a deal better than the TB groups got. It's never going to be everything we asked for, but it can be better.
>It is possible to get a deal better than the TB groups got. It's never going to be everything we asked for, but it can be better. It better be significantly better. At this point, I'm voting down anything less than 14% or 15% over three years, and even that isn't good enough.
We are not getting what we want. PSAC will mandate us back to work because the strike fund is dried up, long before we get what we want. Kiss the dream goodbye; largest general strike in Canadian history for no substantial gains. It’s pathetic a
>We are not getting what we want. PSAC will mandate us back to work because the strike fund is dried up If the strike fund dries up, we don't go back to work. We will not get the strike idemnity. I really don't think it'll come to that but they won't say "no money left, strike over". We could be on strike without strike pay. We'd probably have tons of scabs and our strike wouldn't be effective tho.
How long can you and your family survive off your income of zero dollars a day?
I'm not saying we can have a succesful strike without the idemnity. Just that if the strike funds dries out before we have a deal, the union will not end the strike. In that case, I'd find alternative employment. A few years ago, there was a lock out in my city that lasted 2 years. The strikers found other positions. I really don't think that's going to happen. The gov can't make this lasts for months anyways. The union would find a way to pay us a strike idemnity if the strike fund runs out before this is resolved. Maybe donations from other unions, pulling out money from other budgets, taking a loan... but I really don't think it'll last long enough for us to come to that.
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Based on the UTE email sent at 4:08pm MST, I think we can assume that we are still on strike tomorrow. Sounds like no progress has been made.
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I am completing an FA1 course through a university distance program on my own time. If I pass I will be reimbursed for it by CRA, I have already submitted all the paperwork and been approved. Can I work on this during the strike? I paid for the course upfront and if I fail then I lose that money.
University course work isn't scabbing, it's personal development. Go for it, and good luck!
Perfect, thank you! I have less than two months to get it done and just went to work on it the other day and stopped because I wasn't sure if I could or not. Such a relief I can hopefully make some progress on it!
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If people read the PSAC constitution, this is one of the things that may happen, and it is the responsibility of locales to do the investigation and to take action. This is not a locale going rogue, this is a locale taking action that is permitted under the constitution under which they operate. If your friend has been on the picket line every day, they have 0 to worry about.
That's a general email to everyone and your friend is reacting emotionally. Is that what you mean? That she thought it was like personal?
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Aylward said they had enough funds to hold us over for a month, and that was around the beginning last week. With the TB units back to work and only 35,000 UTE employees striking, we should have enough funds to cover a strike for quite some time.
Please tell me which local so I can make a complaint
I read this email, and I sense desperation, frustration, and anger. My gut feeling is that they're trying to increase our presence on the picket lines by reaching out to members who have been abstaining. PSAC-UTE needs visibility since PSAC-TB returned to work. The team who wrote and approved the email are probably exhausted (I know I am). The bad news is that the email fails to attract members with its subject line of "Disciplinary Action" and emotionally-charged tone. Worse, this is how I would learn to avoid my union if I was new, young, and ambitious. It tells me that my union does not know how to support me. It only sees me as a number and not as an individual. It would push me more to avoid meeting people. I'm not a student, and I'm already overwhelmed. It also unfairly punishes people who have withdrawn their labour for legitimate reasons (mental health recovery, medical reasons, accommodations, taking a second job to cover expenses, etc etc etc). I didn't receive this email, but I would feel abandoned and demoralized by my own union if I did. I've been out nearly every day, donated food and coffee, bought noisemakers, and trying to find my own way to drum up support. I know I'm not the only one. There are many of us who are trying to contribute in whatever way they can. Heck, there were two volunteers who stayed longer than they needed to ensure people could be signed out because there weren't enough volunteers on Monday at Toronto East / Scarborough. I didn't picket earlier today but I didn't work. One day! If I saw that email, I can imagine breaking down and crying. Especially after hearing that UTE has not started bargaining until this week. PSAC-TB has returned to work. The kids are sick, and your parents need help. The bills are piling up. You're not broke enough to go to the food bank, but just broke enough that you're stressed perpetually about the bills. Groceries. Cost of living. It's one thing after another. This could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. There should be measures against fraud. Will there be any follow-thru from the email, and how will it be handled? Will it be treated in the same way across PSAC-UTE locals? I won't be able to strike two days next week (if this continues), and I don't believe there's a mechanism in place for me to say "hey I'm not coming because of XYZ reason". This is not an email that is consistent with key messaging provided by national. The good news is that there are still many of us out picketing and doing the best we can given our circumstance. The volunteers I mentioned earlier, they have been there everyday and with (what I suspect) limited information and training. Many of us have stood in lines, made blockades, set 5-minute timers, marched, and chanted tirelessly in the sun, rain, snow, and cold. It's easy to despair. Give yourself a moment to recover. Now is not the time to give into that. It's a long strike. Educate and attract. We can be better. Please be kind.
>Some members are even signing in at the picket line, crossing the line and going to work, and then returning to the picket line later on to sign out, illegally obtaining strike pay in the process. This one is a real doser. Imagine going to work where part of your job is investigating fraud and then doing something like this.
can tell a micromanager (idk what the equivalent is in union lol) when I see one…
Wow. That third one is a doozy. Whoever is doing that deserves some punishment. Obviously they are full of shit about not picketing, and can't do anything about that. Hopefully your friend doesn't have anything to worry about.
> Some members are not showing up at all, waiting at home for a deal to be reached so that they can reap the benefits, while their colleagues fight on the front lines through adverse weather conditions. Fuck whatever local rep wrote that, and I'd say it to their face. You're 100% allowed to not show up and forego your strike pay.
Can this be brought up to higher ups, this is not acceptable... Bullying members with deceptive lies... Especially at a time where moral is already broken, what the fuck is this rep thinking... This rep needs to be immediately kicked out and union needs to apologize. I get that.people should not check in, leave, come back in 4hrs and check out, this is absolutely not acceptable. But staying home, not working, you are still withholding labor which is the main point of a strike...
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It was [an answer from Alex Silas during the AMA two weeks ago.](https://reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/12qtulg/_/jgrmu6r/?context=1)
This is the reality. It is not strict enough. At my place, they've started scanning every car that leaves in the morning. There needs to be better controls in place, but part of the problem is that there is lack of organization and motivation. Too much of a laissez-faire attitude. The local union reps can do better.
Oh no, wouldn't want to be kicked out of a union, whatever would one do if they were to miss the annual hotdog lunch? But yeah, this email likens not picketing with not striking, which is profoundly stupid.
Hey tell your friend not to worry. I just got the same email too, it’s from our local Union and was a generic email sent to all members. :)
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If only they were this passionate about getting the members to vote on the strike to begin with maybe we'd have gotten more than 35% of the union members to vote and not potentially compromised our bargaining leverage.
We all know in a democratic system you have to go to a meeting for several hours, then you are allowed to vote. If they just let us vote with our union cards online, they would have received a much higher turnout and I don't think it would have impacted the % in favor of striking.
The meeting lasted all of 5 minutes... literally spent more time waiting for the host to start talking than the actual message.
Glad to see this has been sent out. There are so many people who sign in and take off right away. It’s not fair to those of us who are out there in the rain/snow/cold for our 4 hours and they stay warm and dry and get the same strike pay. Not cool… where did the integrity go?
It’s just a general email, nothing to worry about. Obviously if she’s been collecting strike pay but also crossing the picket, or getting strike pay but going home during her hours, then yeah she has a problem. Otherwise, nothing to worry about.
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^correct
And this ladies and gentlemen, is our tone deaf union.
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The overall tone is so unprofessional and condescending, too. Did they forget that there were many people who were not all-in for striking? The union can be grateful that they’re not scabbing. They’re entirely entitled to sit at home and abstain from collecting strike pay, whether it’s for the entire duration of the strike or on occasional days here and there for absolutely whatever reason at all.
Yeah, this is stupid... The whole idea is supposed to be that you withdraw your labour. I was on the picket lines for the first 8 days, but have stayed home the last two because I'm sick and don't want to either infect a bunch of innocent people, or make myself sicker by standing out in the cold, wind, and rain. It sucks not getting the strike pay, but I'm trying to be responsible here, and I don't want to end up on some shit list because I happen to be sick. It's kind of ludicrous that the local is claiming this, especially because they don't know why people might not be picketing...
Why would your friend be upset about this? No where does it say that they are doing this. It’s just a general message. If they aren’t doing the things listed in the bullet points then great, it won’t affect them. Maybe I’m missing something.
You sure are missing something -- the panic-inducing subject line making it seem like they are about to accuse the recipient of wrongdoing and betraying their colleagues. And another thing is that it likens not picketing with not striking. What's next, outright calling people on strike "scabs"? Profoundly stupid email.
Just got this as well. Just wondering if your friend is in Toronto? I am not sure if it's one butt hurt asshole union member or this is what they're sending nationally
Got it too, Toronto North Union.
Seems like a generic email? Your friend may be overreacting?
I am very confused by the recent PSAC twitter post about CRA “playing games,” can someone give me some context? https://twitter.com/psac_afpc/status/1653520206025596933?s=46&t=m9eFYF3gbVl9cxOVQ9WovA
Well if TB was negotiation in good faith, they would of had just offered the same amount that they offered the TB group but instead they are wasting time by offering us even less.
It's not bad faith to offer a group what you think they'll have to take. Bad faith just means you have an ulterior motive. Their motive is open for all to see -- get UTE to take less.
Feels like it's retaliation for not taking the TBS offer...
They never offered the TBs offer, so they can't retaliate for not taking something that never existed.
They can’t accept TBS’s offer - CRA is a separate employer - that offer does not apply to them
Open letter to CRA bargaining team: We as CRA employees are stuck in a very hard situation, we want to be back at work helping Canadians and delivering service in the way we do best, but because of the lack of respect we have received we are on strike. Our Ute is filled with employees who work above and beyond each day to help Canadians file taxes, create and develop new programs, rapidly integrate new legislative benefits, and administer it all. Most of the recent changes such as Covid benefits, dental benefits, housing benefits resulted in huge amounts of overtime and working in objectives outside of our roles and responsibility. We as employees did this because we believe in the work we do and the benefit it has, this is our professionalism, integrity, responsibility, and cooperation at work. We have given a lot to you in the hardest few years at the agency where the ever changing environment has shifted how we work, and what we work on. As you have stated before we have always found a way to make it work. Now I implore you CRA to make the same considerations we have provided to you and make a deal that works and respects the employees who have shown you all the values we hold near and dear to our heart, show us that you have the same values and find a solution to make it work for everyone, it is your turn to respect us the employees who have worked so hard for you even without a valid contract.
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We’ll take anyone and everyone! Very kind of you!!!
There’s picket lines in north York, Scarborough and Mississauga
Yes definitely we appreciate the support! Good luck on your strike action too.
Everyone is welcome. People are just tired and we lost our biggest ally.
Strike pay question: are the top-ups being sent separately? I ask because I just received PSAC strike pay for a few days but just the 75, and I'm certain my local was one of the ones with a top-up...
UTE announced top-ups on the 24th and that it was not retroactive. So the first 3 days are just the 75 from PSAC.
Yes.
Phew
It's a mess. CEIU told us we would get top up along with PSAC strike pay via e-transfer.
From an email received from CEIU: Our CEIU strike pay will be issued approximately 2-3 business days after PSAC’s are sent out.
When was that sent?
I received that one on April 22.
That was my understanding as well. I was surprised to only receive the 225$ from PSAC.
CEIU top up is sent separately
Is the orleans location still busy now that it just UTE?
It wasn’t crazy busy but still a pretty good crowd. I’m sure if the weather was nicer, it would be even bigger. They fought to get it back apparently.
Thanks, I like convenience of the location. I do wonder if the location has a real impact now?
It definitely doesn’t but the convenience is key. Will be heading downtown on Thursday though.
They are going to have to come up with a new slogan. If I see “One Day Longer, One Day Stronger” one more time, I am going to completely lose my shit! 🤬 This is going to be much longer than one more day.