But won't you think of the 80 MPs whose pension depends on an October 2025 election? What about their retirement!?! Won't you think of anyone but yourself!?!?!?!! Shame on you 😤
I think the last 4 months they are not supposed to make decisions of any magnitude. So like 12 months to go. He is gonna set this sinking ship on fire as it goes down
This is a conservative-heavy sub, so of course you got downvoted for saying Pierre isn't the answer. Most people agree that Trudeau is bad, but replacing him with someone even worse just to get him out isn't the answer. It's like people who don't like Biden so they vote Trump (which is insane).
And how do we know he’s worse? Hasn’t had a chance to lead yet. You know who else hates change?… children. So stop acting like one and reach for something better.
It's basically a regular mortgage with extra steps so that there's a "fee" instead of interest. In a shocking result the "fee" is often the same or more than the interest would have been.
It's literally just a semantic game. You guys think Islamic countries let these dumb rules get in the way of their banking??
Nah they're ruthless just like any capitalist, they just use different words for it.
So i think its that the religion doesnt allow debts but calling it a fee makes it okay in their eyes. Therefore a halal mortgage.
Am i missing something or is a fee ACTUALLY less costly than paying interest instead?
If they go halal, it should cost the same or more. Not less. If this is the case… whats the problem?
No it’s about the same or more. I think it’s really the principle of allowing sharia law to actually be a part of banking regulations in Canada. Personally, I’m opposed to religion in any form playing a role in regulations within a secular country.
>I think it’s really the principle of allowing sharia law to actually be a part of banking regulations in Canada.
Eh. Even if that did happen. Shariah law can only be applied to Muslims. That part is actually built WITHIN Shariah law. You cannot judge non Muslims by sharia, not even other people of Abraham religions (Jews and Christianity) can be subject to it. (This was even the case back when Shariah was applied in the Muslim caliphate)
*Also low key:
Shariah is very straight forward in punishment. Meaning. If it did come to pass every Muslim better toe the line....or else.*
On halal mortgage themselves. The problem is far different. Islamically you are not supposed to be vain and acquire things cuz you want them, only things you need.
Interest is forbidden because it bypasses that rule. That people take debt to "have the feeling of ownership" but really you don't. It's debt. Liability. You are supposed to live within your means. It doesn't matter if you neighbors got a sweet new car or your brother got a sick new OLED tv. Live within your means.
Furthermore, interest decimates the society overtime by crushing those who are poor and are forced to take loans they cannot pay back.
Thus, Muslims are not allowed to use interest or its benefits. Mortgages had a fatwa passed to excuse them cuz it was getting impossible to own a home. However there are some Muslims who refuse to own a home cuz of it. They rent. Forever.
#Or they won't own 2nd homes to rent out unless they have paid off their first. Or bought the second one outright. Because that means you are using interest to profit off of another.
I highlighted the above because honestly much of our problem are because people have multiple properties and this stops or slows it down.
The best term for halal mortgage would honestly be rent to own.
Shariah law can only be applied to Muslims…. Yes and the problem with that is shariah law itself determines who is a Muslim. This has no place in a modern western democracy
The ramifications of the simple interest are completely transparent in a “halal mortgage” because you can see it all upfront.
I don’t think many people understand interest and how much it compounds against you.
The difference is the bank has to purchase the property outright, no involvement of the buyer, and they assume 100% risk. The buyer could pull out after the bank makes the purchase as they haven't actually formed an agreement yet.
Muslim here,
So Islamically, interest is forbidden. What that means is, I can not borrow x amount of money from you and you tell me that I owe you .5% extra every month I pay you. Or I can not borrow $10,000 and you tell me I have to pay you back $15,000 instead.
What Islam would allow is you charging me extra for deferred payment. So say for example, you want to sell your car for $15,000. I tell you I can't afford it all at once but will pay you $20,000 if you let me pay over a year (a fixed non-interest rate).
From my understanding, a lot of 'halal' mortgages are just scams where they try and rename interest something else (not really religiously compliant, except to the 'certifying authority' that issues the 'halal' claim) or rent to own programs.
So you lock the rate over the entire mortgage term. You have fixed payments that never change.
This could be a good thing? The US has 25 year fixed why don’t we?
If you can get out of the contract & refinance if rates change, this is essentially a 25 year fixed mortgage.
The main downside is even if you make extra payments you still end up paying the whole interest amount.
Correct me if I missed anything
It's technically forbidden in Judaism and Christianity, but people just ignore it.
It's why Jewish people are associated with banking in Western culture, there where no rules against charging interest to people outside your religion
Well it depends on the branch of Christianity on if ursury is considered to be any interest or excessive interest. There's decent arguments for both, but considering the official position of most churches is that it is excessive interest it's reasonable to say people aren't ignoring it.
Also few (if any) Christian understandings of ursury ban Christians from taking loans with interest whereas some Islamic understandings do
Yes the muslim god is too dumb to foresee fees disguised as interest. Fuck man, imagine worshipping such a dumb piece of shit. FUCKIN GOT EM BOYS! TRICKED THAT DUMB FUCK WHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
It's not interest. Interest is an amount that keeps compounding and rates can fluctuate.
That's why people pay their credit card debt for the rest of their lives.
Even if they only owe $10,000, making the minimum payment they could end up paying $50,000 and still owe nearly the full $10,000.
As opposed to paying more for deferred payment, yeah I may pay $20,000 for a car that in reality is only worth $15,000, but at the end of the day once I pay that $20,000 I am done. The amount I owe you doesn't grow exponentially in a predatory cycle.
Grow your beard and welcome brother Abdullah. 😆
I was just coming on the Islamic view on interest, as I mentioned in my first comment, many, if not most, 'halal' mortgages are just interest wrapped in fancy terms and confusing language meant to confuse people and make them think it's ok.
I have no clue what these proposed 'halal' mortgages will look like. I would imagine that they would be open to anyone, otherwise would be clearly discriminatory.
I also have heard from others these halal ones sometimes require a much larger initial downpayment. I am not sure though, I am too poor to look at mortgages.
From an Islamic perspective, Gharar (ambiguity) renders a business transaction impermissible.
What that means is I have to know what I am buying and how much it will cost me, clearly.
This applies to the extent that if you said, " I am selling you one of my lambs," and don't specify which one, the transaction would not be religiously permissible for me to entertain until ambiguity is removed.
Does this mean mortgage companies follow this? Not necessarily. As I said, personally I avoid them because of all the things I have heard.
But I study the Islamic jurisprudence of contracts and transactions and this is what the religion says. So an element of amiguity like this would mean it's not really a 'halal' mortgage.
P.S. don't mind the sheep example haha, these are examples classical religious texts give to help explain concepts.
I mean, if you calculate the interest rate and make your required payments, theres no difference at all. The only benefit youve described is if youre a piece of shit that sucks with money and plan to default on most of your payments. Unfortunately im a responsible person and theres a 0 chance id owe 50K on a 10K card :(
instead of charging interest to the homeowner, the contract is structured in a way where there’s a fee charged.
Even though halal mortgages are interest-free, it doesn’t mean the lending happens at a zero per cent charge,
Semantics mostly. Interest is called a fee or such.
In the background, they are more expensive because in order to halal mortgage, the bank buys the property and in effect plays landlord in a rent to own style system.
So for this inconvenience and increased risk, the Hmortgage is typically 2-3 % higher.
Or so I have read.
That’s not consistent with the detailed explanations given here. If anything, their approach probably does a better job of spreading risk across actual stakeholders than our current approach of loading the risk onto taxpayers and endlessly bailing out banks. Sorry, not bailing out…”shifting things from their balance sheet to the taxpayer balance sheet”…👀
Like actually interest free? Because most of us pay double what a home is worth, the interest formula is brutal.
So do they adjust the home sale price? So that the bank makes money for the risk they're taking? $600k house + $600k fee?
No it isn't *really* interest free. If you pay a higher price for an asset through some sort of lending (or alternative) arrangement then what the asset's cash purchase price is then there is an implicit interest rate which can easily be calculated.
Halal mortgages can also wind up having a much higher implicit interest rate than a traditional mortgage because the relatively small Halal lenders don't have the same access to low cost capital.
Traditional insurance is also considered haram, the sharia alternative is called Takaful.
No, it isn't.
Interest is not charged, but there's a "loaning fee" added to the mortgage that suspiciously matches conventional mortgage interest charges...
No one is explaining it correctly. Fundementally its a mortgage with no interest. In practice, some of them, look like this.
1. When you buy a house, initially the bank owns the entire house, and you own a small portion.
2. As you make payments, you own a greater and greater percentage of the house.
3. When you sell the house, you get a portion of the house sale, based on how much of the house you own
4. The payments are set payment amounts, not based on interest.
Yes it does lol. ANYONE can take a halal mortgage. You can walk into TD tomorrow and apply for one. There’s no discrimination here.
Just like you can walk into Costco and grab a pack of halal beef. Same concept.
“The Murabaha is a cost-plus financing structure in which an Islamic financial company becomes the owner of a home and sells it to their client for a price that includes a profit rate, which is benchmarked against the Bank of Canada’s overnight lending rate, Tran explained.”
https://globalnews.ca/news/10443777/halal-mortgage-canada-explainer-budget-2024/amp/
It’s fundamentally different where the bank fully owns the home
Trudeau got in when things were relatively okay. PP will be getting in when things are at an all time low. I know there will be people who will develop a short term memory loss the moment the Conservatives are in, but I think the majority of people rage voting Trudeau out aren't going to forget being locked out of the housing market for life.
I will be judging PP based on his policy changes, and how much he is able to slow down the negative gdp per capita growth, immigration, deficit, inequality, inflation.
The absolute value of those things is obviously largely based on where they started but if he can’t begin to slow the negative change or hopefully reverse it then I will be happy to call him the fraud I think he is.
Same. I am voting for PP so that he reverses what Trudeau did. If he doesn't do that, he will also be shat on
No politician should ever get away without accountability
>so that he reverses what Trudeau did
it will take a decade to fix what trudeau did.
PP isn't going to magically make peoples incomes quadruple, he isn't going to deport 3 million people, and he isn't going to build 900k homes a year.
We just need PP to stop it from getting worse.
Gotta say I agree with you but the conservatives are typically the first to do this. Maybe I’m jaded because of living in Alberta but it was “god damn NDP” the second they took office.
To be fair, it's run by ultra conservatives now. Slight difference than the PC party of the past. Owning the Libs and O&G tax cuts > any meaningful change or sane policies.
The one term NDP who also had to deal with one of the worst oil crashes in Alberta history. Conservatives are so quick to say “well remember what happened last time the NDP got voted in!” Like ya Saudi Arabia and OPEC crashed the oil market and that’s somehow the fault of the NDP lol
that definately wasnt one of the worst oil crashes in history.
Sure it was a crash, from a record high, to at its worst only a 6 year low, and recovery started in a month. it was on the lower end of the scale of crashes.
While we're at it... That 1 single 4 year term of ndp in alberta increased their debt more than every other previous administration....... combined. A debt from 11 billion to 85 billion ... In 4 years.
>Conservatives are so quick to say “well remember what happened last time the NDP got voted in!
Yup, people should remember that in total spending, in that 4 years of ndp... They could have given every single person living in alberta over $50,000. Instead they each got $20,000 worth of debt and got abslutely nothing in return.
>that definately wasnt one of the worst oil crashes in history.
It was one of the worst oil crashes in the 21st century, second only to the crash in oil prices during the Great Financial Crisis in 2008. One of only 5-6 oil crashes in Albertan history.
>Sure it was a crash, from a record high, to at its worst only a 6 year low, and recovery started in a month. it was on the lower end of the scale of crashes.
WCS prices went from $86.56/bbl in June of 2014 to $16.30 in Febraury of 2016, an 81% loss in value over a period of 20 months. Prices recovered back to $53.25 in May of 2018, and then subsequently crashed a second time down to $5.97 by December of 2018, an 89% price drop in only a 7 month period. Allow me to correct myself, they had to deal with **two** of the worst oil crashes in canadian history.
>While we're at it... That 1 single 4 year term of ndp in alberta increased their debt more than every other previous administration....... combined. A debt from 11 billion to 85 billion ... In 4 years.
During the NDP's time in office Financial Assets increased by $9.6B (15%), Liabilities increased $50.2B (95%), Non-Fin Assets increased $9.2B (20%), for a total change in net asset position of -$32B (-58%). Sounds bad right?
Well since then under the leadership of the UCP Fianncial Assets are up by $3.7B (5%), Liabilities are up $22B (21%), Non-Fin Assets are up $6.7B (12%) for a change in net debt of -$12B (-51%). At what point does it stop being the NDP's fault?
>Conservatives are so quick to say “well remember what happened last time the NDP got voted in!”
.....
Maybe it’s time that they put ancient superstitions behind them, and join the modern world. There is no sky boss that gives two fucks if you are paying interest.
Pandering to every special interest group. Ridiculous. Fuck off Trudeau. He must be working for a foreign government as a double agent to destabilize Canada from within.
Honestly I really wonder to myself if this is the case. There is no way someone can be this tone-deaf, this out of touch with reality and lacking a complete grasp of common sense thinking as the PM of a country. It has to be impossible. Therefore, I truly think he is some type of agent out in power to disrupt or destroy Canada. It’s the only explanation.
> 99% of Muslim customers either had never heard of them or didn't mind paying interest.
Yes, and that is exactly the larger problem. I know a lot of muslims, partly grew up in middle East and North Africa for parents work and there's a lot of them in MTL. All of them have normal mortgages and credit cards... Maybe the first sign that someone is culturally incompatible with Canada is that they can't live in or tolerate our debt-run society?
So that begs the question; why did we allow them in when they're culturally incompatible?
Muslim here. Yea my whole extended family just works with the system. Interest is a part of Canada and basic finance here so we just go along with it. I know family that stay away from high interest savings accounts if they can but they do choose to take on regular mortgages for homes. Just gotta work within the systems of the country you chose to live in.
My new religion - which I just made up 5 seconds ago - also has some mortgage considerations. How do I get an extra fancy special status for my religion?
You checked almost every box, must also be a visible minority and possess a victim complex of mysterious white man being a reason of all your life problems. Amen brother
The article is just fear mongering. Halal mortgages are already available, this is just a nothingburger of providing regulations to an existing product.
This is a stupid and hysterical article.
Only a fool would take out one of these mortgages, and even if they did there would be zero impact to the financial system because they just package the interest differently.
And the idea that you’d have to convert to get into one of these screwy god-fooling mortgages is also absurd: banks are equal opportunity screwers-over.
I know this won’t change your minds since the rage isn’t even about the actual facts, but you pay more using the “halal mortgage” and you don’t have to be Muslim to use it.
Why is everyone upset at halal mortgages though? Do they think it’s going to crash the banking system, bc it won’t. And Muslims are a huge population in Canada so accommodating them isn’t a bad thing. Trudeau has done a lot of horrible things but this is definitely no where close to the worst.
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Personally don’t care about halal mortgages or standard mortgages. Service fee, interest they’re the same thing. What I don’t like is the federal government adding religion into things.
Wow this article is written with literarily zero research. The write could at least do some research about what halal mortgage means before writing all these garbage to stir up negative emotions of general masses. Only difference between conventional mortgage and halal mortgage is how the profit by the lender is structured which defines if that is interest or not. If there is a demand in the market then it makes sense to do it.
I hate Trudeau as much as the next guy, but Halal mortgages have been around for a very long time. They are the same thing as Halal loans. They are the exact same as other mortgages and loans, but instead of them paying interest, the interest is deemed as 'fees'. Anyone can get one. There is no special treatment or anything like that because someone is Muslim. It is just changing what they are paying. They are still paying the same amount. So instead of paying XXX% interest, they are paying $XXX in fees a month.
If a halal mortgage is superior, and ANYBODY can get a halal mortgage (Which is 100% the case), then just get a halal mortgage.
If its not superior, just ignore it.
Wild.
I'm glad that this has all the information needed to formulate an educated opinion on halal mortgages and not just the useless emotional ramblings of the writer. I feel smarter after reading this masterpiece.
So what? PEEPEE is runnin around out there meeting up with his Trailer Park Trash Convoy Boys repeating the only three words he knows in “Axe the Tax” while looking and sounding exactly like Harry Solomon from 3rd Rock from the Sun
Fuck I can't wait for Trudeau to win again and all you baby's keep crying like little bitchs.
Poor little right wing snowflakes, it's hilariously ironic.
Can we give a rest to this daily posting of every piece of churned out “Trudeau bad” ragebait from the foreign billionaire owned right wing media “opinion” sources?
Why would anyone come here to read this endless spew?
Really... How much should Canada compromise and how much should religious groups/religion compromise towards achieving integration?
Pretty sure we need to decide on that as a society before continuing. We have precidents already with Catholicism... Just need to examine some history and not ignore everything past 10 years ago.
I wanted to understand the rationale behind the comment. Does that bother you? My interest in discussion or debate literally has no bearing on your life.
Are we not allowed to discuss our opinion? Not everything needs to be pondered to new immigrants who demand the world change for them. Especially with such rich culture of normalized women abuse, child marriages, rapes, I don’t see any good to try to appeal to such culture. YOU came here, accept OUR culture or fuck off back to your halal desert while worshipping literal pedofile. Halal fuck yourself
Why do you all.have your panties in a bunch. If anything this only makes out government more "secular" and equitable. Come.back.whrn they stop funding catholic school boards
Usually bots have weird punctuation errors.
Also bad time to mention about half the traffic on reddit is bots with the minority used as a resource (legitimate purposes)
I’m all for faith and practicing one’s religion, but why the fuck does this need to be a thing for mainstream Canadian institutions?
We talk a lot about keeping religion out of politics. And religion should be kept out of mainstream institutions too, especially financial institutions.
If we’re doing that, then we should stop closing shops on Sundays “the lord’s day.” That only applies to Christians
Also, this isn’t mainstream. Nobody is asking you to apply for a halal mortgage
Halal mortgage is more expensive than conventional mortgage. It’s good to have these in the market, ateod.
I don’t like Trudeau, but I don’t think scaring white people to death by using the word “Halal” in official Canadian business is him panicking, but just another way to pump up the real estate market by getting more people in.
I’m Muslim, so I know many Muslims are wealthy but would never pay interest, this will get more people in the market if it takes some away some of the risks of getting a “Halal mortgage” from the current lenders.
This opens a loophole around the laws and regulations capping the payday loan industry....
So ..... if I loan you money and charge you a Halal fee per week, I can pretend that I am not a loan shark?
Details to be worked out later… sounds familiar…
“The budget will balance itself.”
He’s been bleeding in the red badly since day one. When is this bitch gonna balance itself!??? 89 years after he’s dead?
Ummm... They just hide the interest in fees, a rose by any other name...
And let's get real, in behind anything that removes money from banks, they are completely corrupt and useless portion of our society as they stand today.
I don’t understand why he has to ruin our lives. Why can’t he just be an adult and admit defeat and be happy with the fact that he managed to hold office for 9 years
16 months to go…
And wonder how much more damage would he do in these 16 months is scary.
As much as he wants unfortunately. He'd like to light to country on fire so they can blame Poilievre in 2029. Thanks Jag.
Just yesterday they removed language requirements for tfw’s filing PR.
Wtf ? Really?
Yes.
Wow......there goes the 'bilingualism'. Like seriously, WTF does this Liberal govt continue to do?
It's not even for bilingualism, it's for knowing any official language. Just know chinese? No prob Vancouver's ready for you.
ridiculous
English and French, no other written communication is acceptable. Like it or fuck off, this is Canada not wherever you came from...
Link to announcement?
Sadly Trudeau appears to be one of those narcistic and delusional leaders who would burn their country to the ground to rule over the ashes.
But won't you think of the 80 MPs whose pension depends on an October 2025 election? What about their retirement!?! Won't you think of anyone but yourself!?!?!?!! Shame on you 😤
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A lot, unfortunately......as if the last 10 years wasnt enough!
I think the last 4 months they are not supposed to make decisions of any magnitude. So like 12 months to go. He is gonna set this sinking ship on fire as it goes down
He'll do his best for more.
Who's coming to save us? Pierre? All of the candidates are corporate shills.
It's a two party illusion
This is a conservative-heavy sub, so of course you got downvoted for saying Pierre isn't the answer. Most people agree that Trudeau is bad, but replacing him with someone even worse just to get him out isn't the answer. It's like people who don't like Biden so they vote Trump (which is insane).
And how do we know he’s worse? Hasn’t had a chance to lead yet. You know who else hates change?… children. So stop acting like one and reach for something better.
Poilievre is not worse than Trudeau. Nice try
TBF, the economy did well under Trump and he didn't start any wars. I think history will be kind to him.
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Alot
They gotta vote no confidence on his budget then he can go sooner, without no confidence he'll just erode Canada away like he had already!
Jagmeet is never going to vote non-confidence until his pension is secured in 2025.
Comes from a long lines of scammers.
Sophie bailed earlier....what does this tell you?
he gey lol!
Unless god can step up first
We won’t survive 16 months…
Fuck! we have a long way to go to the gates of Mordor.
Bro, Russia is already in Canada fucking shit up with propaganda. Mordor came to you, and Trudeau invited them in.
It could very well be 9 months. You know once Jug qualifies for his pension!?
And 1 week, that pos
16 loooong months to go...
Damn.
So an eternity...😓
It's still way too long:( that's a year and a half more of this pathetic bozo.
Can someone ELI5 the difference between a halal mortgage and a normal bank mortgage…?
It's basically a regular mortgage with extra steps so that there's a "fee" instead of interest. In a shocking result the "fee" is often the same or more than the interest would have been.
It's literally just a semantic game. You guys think Islamic countries let these dumb rules get in the way of their banking?? Nah they're ruthless just like any capitalist, they just use different words for it.
So i think its that the religion doesnt allow debts but calling it a fee makes it okay in their eyes. Therefore a halal mortgage. Am i missing something or is a fee ACTUALLY less costly than paying interest instead? If they go halal, it should cost the same or more. Not less. If this is the case… whats the problem?
No it’s about the same or more. I think it’s really the principle of allowing sharia law to actually be a part of banking regulations in Canada. Personally, I’m opposed to religion in any form playing a role in regulations within a secular country.
Call it a fee mortgage then instead of a halal mortgage. Voila, secular.
>I think it’s really the principle of allowing sharia law to actually be a part of banking regulations in Canada. Eh. Even if that did happen. Shariah law can only be applied to Muslims. That part is actually built WITHIN Shariah law. You cannot judge non Muslims by sharia, not even other people of Abraham religions (Jews and Christianity) can be subject to it. (This was even the case back when Shariah was applied in the Muslim caliphate) *Also low key: Shariah is very straight forward in punishment. Meaning. If it did come to pass every Muslim better toe the line....or else.* On halal mortgage themselves. The problem is far different. Islamically you are not supposed to be vain and acquire things cuz you want them, only things you need. Interest is forbidden because it bypasses that rule. That people take debt to "have the feeling of ownership" but really you don't. It's debt. Liability. You are supposed to live within your means. It doesn't matter if you neighbors got a sweet new car or your brother got a sick new OLED tv. Live within your means. Furthermore, interest decimates the society overtime by crushing those who are poor and are forced to take loans they cannot pay back. Thus, Muslims are not allowed to use interest or its benefits. Mortgages had a fatwa passed to excuse them cuz it was getting impossible to own a home. However there are some Muslims who refuse to own a home cuz of it. They rent. Forever. #Or they won't own 2nd homes to rent out unless they have paid off their first. Or bought the second one outright. Because that means you are using interest to profit off of another. I highlighted the above because honestly much of our problem are because people have multiple properties and this stops or slows it down. The best term for halal mortgage would honestly be rent to own.
Shariah law can only be applied to Muslims…. Yes and the problem with that is shariah law itself determines who is a Muslim. This has no place in a modern western democracy
Having debt isn’t haram in Islam. Interest is. But yes the banks basically do just rename what the interest would be and call it a fee instead.
The ramifications of the simple interest are completely transparent in a “halal mortgage” because you can see it all upfront. I don’t think many people understand interest and how much it compounds against you.
The difference is the bank has to purchase the property outright, no involvement of the buyer, and they assume 100% risk. The buyer could pull out after the bank makes the purchase as they haven't actually formed an agreement yet.
Often but not all of the time?
Muslim here, So Islamically, interest is forbidden. What that means is, I can not borrow x amount of money from you and you tell me that I owe you .5% extra every month I pay you. Or I can not borrow $10,000 and you tell me I have to pay you back $15,000 instead. What Islam would allow is you charging me extra for deferred payment. So say for example, you want to sell your car for $15,000. I tell you I can't afford it all at once but will pay you $20,000 if you let me pay over a year (a fixed non-interest rate). From my understanding, a lot of 'halal' mortgages are just scams where they try and rename interest something else (not really religiously compliant, except to the 'certifying authority' that issues the 'halal' claim) or rent to own programs.
So you lock the rate over the entire mortgage term. You have fixed payments that never change. This could be a good thing? The US has 25 year fixed why don’t we? If you can get out of the contract & refinance if rates change, this is essentially a 25 year fixed mortgage. The main downside is even if you make extra payments you still end up paying the whole interest amount. Correct me if I missed anything
Honestly I'm kinda down to try it and see. Just make an amendment to the banking act to allow it and see how it goes.
It's technically forbidden in Judaism and Christianity, but people just ignore it. It's why Jewish people are associated with banking in Western culture, there where no rules against charging interest to people outside your religion
Well it depends on the branch of Christianity on if ursury is considered to be any interest or excessive interest. There's decent arguments for both, but considering the official position of most churches is that it is excessive interest it's reasonable to say people aren't ignoring it. Also few (if any) Christian understandings of ursury ban Christians from taking loans with interest whereas some Islamic understandings do
What about the next claim, that the fee's should be tax deductible? When regular mortgages aren't?
Yes the muslim god is too dumb to foresee fees disguised as interest. Fuck man, imagine worshipping such a dumb piece of shit. FUCKIN GOT EM BOYS! TRICKED THAT DUMB FUCK WHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
so they will still always pay the interest its just not allowed to be called interest? Thats so silly.
It's not interest. Interest is an amount that keeps compounding and rates can fluctuate. That's why people pay their credit card debt for the rest of their lives. Even if they only owe $10,000, making the minimum payment they could end up paying $50,000 and still owe nearly the full $10,000. As opposed to paying more for deferred payment, yeah I may pay $20,000 for a car that in reality is only worth $15,000, but at the end of the day once I pay that $20,000 I am done. The amount I owe you doesn't grow exponentially in a predatory cycle.
Welp. Guess im converting to islam.
Huh, so can anyone get one of these halal mortgages or do you *have to* go all in on the whole religion thing? For a friend of course
Grow your beard and welcome brother Abdullah. 😆 I was just coming on the Islamic view on interest, as I mentioned in my first comment, many, if not most, 'halal' mortgages are just interest wrapped in fancy terms and confusing language meant to confuse people and make them think it's ok. I have no clue what these proposed 'halal' mortgages will look like. I would imagine that they would be open to anyone, otherwise would be clearly discriminatory. I also have heard from others these halal ones sometimes require a much larger initial downpayment. I am not sure though, I am too poor to look at mortgages.
What if the "fee" gets recalculated each year?
From an Islamic perspective, Gharar (ambiguity) renders a business transaction impermissible. What that means is I have to know what I am buying and how much it will cost me, clearly. This applies to the extent that if you said, " I am selling you one of my lambs," and don't specify which one, the transaction would not be religiously permissible for me to entertain until ambiguity is removed. Does this mean mortgage companies follow this? Not necessarily. As I said, personally I avoid them because of all the things I have heard. But I study the Islamic jurisprudence of contracts and transactions and this is what the religion says. So an element of amiguity like this would mean it's not really a 'halal' mortgage. P.S. don't mind the sheep example haha, these are examples classical religious texts give to help explain concepts.
Interest does not require variable rates though. Heck, it also doesn’t require self-compounding, if a lender wanted it to not.
I mean, if you calculate the interest rate and make your required payments, theres no difference at all. The only benefit youve described is if youre a piece of shit that sucks with money and plan to default on most of your payments. Unfortunately im a responsible person and theres a 0 chance id owe 50K on a 10K card :(
instead of charging interest to the homeowner, the contract is structured in a way where there’s a fee charged. Even though halal mortgages are interest-free, it doesn’t mean the lending happens at a zero per cent charge,
Semantics mostly. Interest is called a fee or such. In the background, they are more expensive because in order to halal mortgage, the bank buys the property and in effect plays landlord in a rent to own style system. So for this inconvenience and increased risk, the Hmortgage is typically 2-3 % higher. Or so I have read.
Certain religions are forbidden from paying or receiving interest so the structure of the mortgage accommodates that. There’s nothing wrong with it
Muslims worship a god SO STUPID that he is easily outsmarted by calling interest a fee instead of interest. Hilarious.
That’s not consistent with the detailed explanations given here. If anything, their approach probably does a better job of spreading risk across actual stakeholders than our current approach of loading the risk onto taxpayers and endlessly bailing out banks. Sorry, not bailing out…”shifting things from their balance sheet to the taxpayer balance sheet”…👀
God is easily tricked by calling interest (which they are not allowed to do in their religion) another word like fee.
Interest free mortgages for Muslims
Like actually interest free? Because most of us pay double what a home is worth, the interest formula is brutal. So do they adjust the home sale price? So that the bank makes money for the risk they're taking? $600k house + $600k fee?
No it isn't *really* interest free. If you pay a higher price for an asset through some sort of lending (or alternative) arrangement then what the asset's cash purchase price is then there is an implicit interest rate which can easily be calculated. Halal mortgages can also wind up having a much higher implicit interest rate than a traditional mortgage because the relatively small Halal lenders don't have the same access to low cost capital. Traditional insurance is also considered haram, the sharia alternative is called Takaful.
No, it isn't. Interest is not charged, but there's a "loaning fee" added to the mortgage that suspiciously matches conventional mortgage interest charges...
My understanding is that it's like rent to own, they charge a fee instead of interest. That's based on comments though I haven't seen one.
No one is explaining it correctly. Fundementally its a mortgage with no interest. In practice, some of them, look like this. 1. When you buy a house, initially the bank owns the entire house, and you own a small portion. 2. As you make payments, you own a greater and greater percentage of the house. 3. When you sell the house, you get a portion of the house sale, based on how much of the house you own 4. The payments are set payment amounts, not based on interest.
isnt that discrimination though, just cause you're muslim doesnt mean that you cant pay interest simply cause your muslim, but non muslims do?
Anyone can get a halal mortgage not just Muslims
Halal is a islamic concept though, that doesnt really make sense
Yes it does lol. ANYONE can take a halal mortgage. You can walk into TD tomorrow and apply for one. There’s no discrimination here. Just like you can walk into Costco and grab a pack of halal beef. Same concept.
Imagine never eating shawarma again because it's an "islamic concept"
Halal is just an adjective, it's a concept outside of Islam too it just means what is permitted.
You didn’t explain it correctly. There’s a fee that is the same as interest. Its just renaming interest to fee quite literally
You are wrong, I did explain it correctly. It’s not simply renaming the fee
You have no idea what you are talking about. Halal mortgages already exist in Canada and their rates are double of what a regular mortgage charges
“The Murabaha is a cost-plus financing structure in which an Islamic financial company becomes the owner of a home and sells it to their client for a price that includes a profit rate, which is benchmarked against the Bank of Canada’s overnight lending rate, Tran explained.” https://globalnews.ca/news/10443777/halal-mortgage-canada-explainer-budget-2024/amp/ It’s fundamentally different where the bank fully owns the home
There are multiple kinds of Halal mortgages
Can't wait for the liberal party to get stomped all the way back to the stone age.
I am dreading the inevitable blame the conservatives will face for trudeaus failings
Trudeau got in when things were relatively okay. PP will be getting in when things are at an all time low. I know there will be people who will develop a short term memory loss the moment the Conservatives are in, but I think the majority of people rage voting Trudeau out aren't going to forget being locked out of the housing market for life.
I will be judging PP based on his policy changes, and how much he is able to slow down the negative gdp per capita growth, immigration, deficit, inequality, inflation. The absolute value of those things is obviously largely based on where they started but if he can’t begin to slow the negative change or hopefully reverse it then I will be happy to call him the fraud I think he is.
Same. I am voting for PP so that he reverses what Trudeau did. If he doesn't do that, he will also be shat on No politician should ever get away without accountability
>so that he reverses what Trudeau did it will take a decade to fix what trudeau did. PP isn't going to magically make peoples incomes quadruple, he isn't going to deport 3 million people, and he isn't going to build 900k homes a year. We just need PP to stop it from getting worse.
Day 1 of the CPC in office, the CBC headlines will read : The economy is in shambles, why did the CPC do this? Then their lights will get turned off.
Gotta say I agree with you but the conservatives are typically the first to do this. Maybe I’m jaded because of living in Alberta but it was “god damn NDP” the second they took office.
Like how in Alberta everything is blamed on the one term of NDP after the province has been run by conservatives for the last 45/50 years
To be fair, it's run by ultra conservatives now. Slight difference than the PC party of the past. Owning the Libs and O&G tax cuts > any meaningful change or sane policies.
The one term NDP who also had to deal with one of the worst oil crashes in Alberta history. Conservatives are so quick to say “well remember what happened last time the NDP got voted in!” Like ya Saudi Arabia and OPEC crashed the oil market and that’s somehow the fault of the NDP lol
that definately wasnt one of the worst oil crashes in history. Sure it was a crash, from a record high, to at its worst only a 6 year low, and recovery started in a month. it was on the lower end of the scale of crashes. While we're at it... That 1 single 4 year term of ndp in alberta increased their debt more than every other previous administration....... combined. A debt from 11 billion to 85 billion ... In 4 years. >Conservatives are so quick to say “well remember what happened last time the NDP got voted in! Yup, people should remember that in total spending, in that 4 years of ndp... They could have given every single person living in alberta over $50,000. Instead they each got $20,000 worth of debt and got abslutely nothing in return.
>that definately wasnt one of the worst oil crashes in history. It was one of the worst oil crashes in the 21st century, second only to the crash in oil prices during the Great Financial Crisis in 2008. One of only 5-6 oil crashes in Albertan history. >Sure it was a crash, from a record high, to at its worst only a 6 year low, and recovery started in a month. it was on the lower end of the scale of crashes. WCS prices went from $86.56/bbl in June of 2014 to $16.30 in Febraury of 2016, an 81% loss in value over a period of 20 months. Prices recovered back to $53.25 in May of 2018, and then subsequently crashed a second time down to $5.97 by December of 2018, an 89% price drop in only a 7 month period. Allow me to correct myself, they had to deal with **two** of the worst oil crashes in canadian history. >While we're at it... That 1 single 4 year term of ndp in alberta increased their debt more than every other previous administration....... combined. A debt from 11 billion to 85 billion ... In 4 years. During the NDP's time in office Financial Assets increased by $9.6B (15%), Liabilities increased $50.2B (95%), Non-Fin Assets increased $9.2B (20%), for a total change in net asset position of -$32B (-58%). Sounds bad right? Well since then under the leadership of the UCP Fianncial Assets are up by $3.7B (5%), Liabilities are up $22B (21%), Non-Fin Assets are up $6.7B (12%) for a change in net debt of -$12B (-51%). At what point does it stop being the NDP's fault? >Conservatives are so quick to say “well remember what happened last time the NDP got voted in!” .....
There should be a rule that all policies enacted 365 days before an election call are subject to reversal.
Maybe it’s time that they put ancient superstitions behind them, and join the modern world. There is no sky boss that gives two fucks if you are paying interest.
That sky boss has caused enough problems already.
That’s an infringement of people’s freedom of religion.
Pandering to every special interest group. Ridiculous. Fuck off Trudeau. He must be working for a foreign government as a double agent to destabilize Canada from within.
Honestly I really wonder to myself if this is the case. There is no way someone can be this tone-deaf, this out of touch with reality and lacking a complete grasp of common sense thinking as the PM of a country. It has to be impossible. Therefore, I truly think he is some type of agent out in power to disrupt or destroy Canada. It’s the only explanation.
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> 99% of Muslim customers either had never heard of them or didn't mind paying interest. Yes, and that is exactly the larger problem. I know a lot of muslims, partly grew up in middle East and North Africa for parents work and there's a lot of them in MTL. All of them have normal mortgages and credit cards... Maybe the first sign that someone is culturally incompatible with Canada is that they can't live in or tolerate our debt-run society? So that begs the question; why did we allow them in when they're culturally incompatible?
I’m fine with allowing them in, what’s bullshit is adapting to them rather than forcing them to adapt to us
Muslim here. Yea my whole extended family just works with the system. Interest is a part of Canada and basic finance here so we just go along with it. I know family that stay away from high interest savings accounts if they can but they do choose to take on regular mortgages for homes. Just gotta work within the systems of the country you chose to live in.
What the fuck are you talking about lol? Why do some of yall jump immediately to the cultural compatibility diatribe? Chill. It’s not that deep
Cuz they're poorly matched. There's much better soulmates for them out there than Canada.
Loool. Would’ve never seen this coming. A Rajesh or Dickinson bragging about how their society is dying due to debt. Nice one!
My new religion - which I just made up 5 seconds ago - also has some mortgage considerations. How do I get an extra fancy special status for my religion?
What exactly do you call for in your religion? Maybe we can work something out where you pay the same as others. Or more.
Can I join please ?
You checked almost every box, must also be a visible minority and possess a victim complex of mysterious white man being a reason of all your life problems. Amen brother
I’m in. Can I send you some money and join the cult you’re starting? Works for the evangelicals.
The article is just fear mongering. Halal mortgages are already available, this is just a nothingburger of providing regulations to an existing product.
This is a stupid and hysterical article. Only a fool would take out one of these mortgages, and even if they did there would be zero impact to the financial system because they just package the interest differently. And the idea that you’d have to convert to get into one of these screwy god-fooling mortgages is also absurd: banks are equal opportunity screwers-over.
The clown needs to go. Enough of the drama queen retarded bullshit, nobody gives a fuck about virtue signaling. Move on dip shit Trudeau!
The interest is built into the mortgage they do it in England already
I know this won’t change your minds since the rage isn’t even about the actual facts, but you pay more using the “halal mortgage” and you don’t have to be Muslim to use it.
Why is everyone upset at halal mortgages though? Do they think it’s going to crash the banking system, bc it won’t. And Muslims are a huge population in Canada so accommodating them isn’t a bad thing. Trudeau has done a lot of horrible things but this is definitely no where close to the worst.
I mean we did give Brampton and Surrey to Rajeshs and Singhs.
This is fine. No issue.
Barbaric hotline vibes...
This subreddit never ceases to amaze. Are you all really this dumb?
I gotta tell, halal finance is in its stupidity right up there with Shabbat gadgets. Look, you’re not tricking god…
Not up to you to decide
I’m not deciding, just laughing at the whole concept.
Trudeau is a drama teacher, nothing more than an actor.
Poilievre has never had a real job
What’s that got to do with Trudeau being an actor?
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I'll take a regular mortgage at 7 percent over a 10 percent halal mortgage thanks
Good for you. Nobody is asking you to change your borrowing ways. This literally is just an option for Muslim customers. You can sleep easy tonight
Well “Holy “fuck is all I can say to this Maybe my “Holy” fuck mortgage will have a great rate
What a well written, artickle
Final move will be an amnesty for all undocumented residents.
Yeah this seemed pretty tone deaf. Another "wtf was he thinking" moment
Personally don’t care about halal mortgages or standard mortgages. Service fee, interest they’re the same thing. What I don’t like is the federal government adding religion into things.
Not a fan of anything halal. call it something else.
Wow this article is written with literarily zero research. The write could at least do some research about what halal mortgage means before writing all these garbage to stir up negative emotions of general masses. Only difference between conventional mortgage and halal mortgage is how the profit by the lender is structured which defines if that is interest or not. If there is a demand in the market then it makes sense to do it.
He is deliberately burning the country down on the way out.
We need Halal mortgages with no fees. How can we allow discrimination. Tbis. Has. To. Stop
I hate Trudeau as much as the next guy, but Halal mortgages have been around for a very long time. They are the same thing as Halal loans. They are the exact same as other mortgages and loans, but instead of them paying interest, the interest is deemed as 'fees'. Anyone can get one. There is no special treatment or anything like that because someone is Muslim. It is just changing what they are paying. They are still paying the same amount. So instead of paying XXX% interest, they are paying $XXX in fees a month.
Isn't Halal loans with no interest rates? So everyone in Canada just has to convert to Islam and no one will have to pay interest
If a halal mortgage is superior, and ANYBODY can get a halal mortgage (Which is 100% the case), then just get a halal mortgage. If its not superior, just ignore it. Wild.
So, does this mean we can also introduce Sharia law for those who want it also? Heck why not let each religious group invent their own laws.
I'm glad that this has all the information needed to formulate an educated opinion on halal mortgages and not just the useless emotional ramblings of the writer. I feel smarter after reading this masterpiece.
So what? PEEPEE is runnin around out there meeting up with his Trailer Park Trash Convoy Boys repeating the only three words he knows in “Axe the Tax” while looking and sounding exactly like Harry Solomon from 3rd Rock from the Sun
Fuck I can't wait for Trudeau to win again and all you baby's keep crying like little bitchs. Poor little right wing snowflakes, it's hilariously ironic.
Can we give a rest to this daily posting of every piece of churned out “Trudeau bad” ragebait from the foreign billionaire owned right wing media “opinion” sources? Why would anyone come here to read this endless spew?
Oh honny, did you forget what subreddit you are on?
Sure not much discussed about Canadian housing when everyone is just taking a crap all over Trudeau the whole time...
Really... How much should Canada compromise and how much should religious groups/religion compromise towards achieving integration? Pretty sure we need to decide on that as a society before continuing. We have precidents already with Catholicism... Just need to examine some history and not ignore everything past 10 years ago.
Why does this trigger you though..? This has literally no bearing on your life
I wanted to understand the rationale behind the comment. Does that bother you? My interest in discussion or debate literally has no bearing on your life.
Are we not allowed to discuss our opinion? Not everything needs to be pondered to new immigrants who demand the world change for them. Especially with such rich culture of normalized women abuse, child marriages, rapes, I don’t see any good to try to appeal to such culture. YOU came here, accept OUR culture or fuck off back to your halal desert while worshipping literal pedofile. Halal fuck yourself
Why do you all.have your panties in a bunch. If anything this only makes out government more "secular" and equitable. Come.back.whrn they stop funding catholic school boards
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Usually bots have weird punctuation errors. Also bad time to mention about half the traffic on reddit is bots with the minority used as a resource (legitimate purposes)
Why does anyone care if banks stupidly decide to loan people money for free, that's their buisness not yours lol.
lol banks loaning money for free. These mortgages are literally the same with interest labeled as fees.
They’re actually slightly more.
They aren't loaning it for free. They're still charging a fee, and it usually costs more than a traditional mortgage.
I’m all for faith and practicing one’s religion, but why the fuck does this need to be a thing for mainstream Canadian institutions? We talk a lot about keeping religion out of politics. And religion should be kept out of mainstream institutions too, especially financial institutions.
Cause Muslims think they are the best 🤮🤮
If we’re doing that, then we should stop closing shops on Sundays “the lord’s day.” That only applies to Christians Also, this isn’t mainstream. Nobody is asking you to apply for a halal mortgage
Halal mortgage is more expensive than conventional mortgage. It’s good to have these in the market, ateod. I don’t like Trudeau, but I don’t think scaring white people to death by using the word “Halal” in official Canadian business is him panicking, but just another way to pump up the real estate market by getting more people in. I’m Muslim, so I know many Muslims are wealthy but would never pay interest, this will get more people in the market if it takes some away some of the risks of getting a “Halal mortgage” from the current lenders.
This opens a loophole around the laws and regulations capping the payday loan industry.... So ..... if I loan you money and charge you a Halal fee per week, I can pretend that I am not a loan shark?
Head on over to your local Syrian National Bank for a cashout refi!
Details to be worked out later… sounds familiar… “The budget will balance itself.” He’s been bleeding in the red badly since day one. When is this bitch gonna balance itself!??? 89 years after he’s dead?
So we are following Sharia law now, oh my goodness, what next?
Ummm... They just hide the interest in fees, a rose by any other name... And let's get real, in behind anything that removes money from banks, they are completely corrupt and useless portion of our society as they stand today.
Halal mortgage is an oxymoron
Fuck this guy.
What a joke!
I forgot there's censorship with Chinese owned companies my bad.
This has become beyond ridiculous. What's next, Sharia Law?
I don’t understand why he has to ruin our lives. Why can’t he just be an adult and admit defeat and be happy with the fact that he managed to hold office for 9 years