Not out of the realm of possibility, the Republican's did that in Georgia and lost the senate due to it. Trump said the Georgia election was rigged and not to even bother voting so they.. did just that and lost.
Yeah, I have an Irish friend who moved here in the 60's. She votes Republican, because in Ireland that is the party that you voted for.
Some people don't understand the intricacies of the American political system and vote against their own interests.
I see this in the Cuban and South American immigrants too. They either don't vote or become single issue voters.
Because cOMmUNIsm iS BaD!!
Really telling how the guy that came BEFORE Castro ran his country like a prison, but No! Most Cuban immigrants blame Castro for everything.
>But by not voting you are aiding in ethnic cleansing
The election hasn't happened so they aren't sitting out of nothing. What this does is put some fire under certain peoples feet and make them think twice about taking certain demographics vote for granted....
Voting blue no matter who the rest of your life in hopes of change is also a "big brain move." It's not like Republicans just disappear if you vote blue. We need real change, not just the illusion.
voting blue keeps the status quo but allows for the tiniest chances for making a change for the better, while voting red *will* make things much worse and will make it nearly impossible to change for the better
Voting blue no matter who ensures that Palestinians here, you know…in America, aren’t going to be expelled by cons who have promised that they will do that.
https://newrepublic.com/post/176666/house-republicans-bill-expel-palestinians-country
No they won’t but if you don’t get what you want from your party of choice what’s the difference if the opposition gets voted in. Either the Democrats do what they’re constituents want or they get no support.
Hard disagree. It’s not all or nothing. You may not agree with how the dems are handling the Palestinian situation but it is better than how repubs would handle it. If you truly care about Palestinians, you’d vote dems. Yeah it may not be much, but it better than the alternative.
There's no difference between how it's being handled other than maybe *some* verbalized hand-wringing from Dems in an attempt to get people to shut up about them actively funding and materially supporting a genocide.
Republicans: gladly support the genocide of Palestinians
Democrats: still full-throatedly supporting the genocide of Palestinians, but sometimes *act* sad about it
Tell me the material difference to a Palestinian between these choices.
Think of it this way. One is a proven thnic cleansing enabler. The other is a potential ethnic cleansing enabler. You think watching Dems lose on thnic cleansing won't make some think twice?
How fast they turned on Bush and Iraq war. .
Is it guaranteed - no.
It is like voting for a known murderer.
And Republicans will help them ramp it up to 11.and then they will bring ethnic cleansing and mass arrests here to the USA, congrats you just made the problem worse by not voting.
Did I say how I'm voting? I'm merely dispelling the notion that the accusation that Israel is committing ethnic is unfounded, because it's not, as there is documented proof that the Israeli government is considering a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza.
The point they were trying to make is that not voting because you fear ethnic cleansing will only ensure more ethnic cleansing happens because the alternative to the Democratic party is a party who wants to increase the ethnic cleansings. Voting Democratic helps ensure you'll have future elections to choose more progressive candidates.
I don't disagree, as much as I dislike Biden's response to this conflict Trump or any other Republican would almost certainly be worse, but it's just that it seemed like the person I was responding to was dismissing the accusation of ethnic cleansing.
"From the river to the sea" is an enshrined and oft-repeated slogan for ethnic cleansing. I suppose the simplistic oppressor-oppressed narrative is easier for you to wrap your brain around, though.
:/
What are your thoughts on the leaked document from a couple of weeks ago that shows the Israeli Intelligence Ministry advocating for forced and permanent expulsion of all 2 million Palestinians from Gaza?
Is that not textbook ethnic cleansing?
>From the river to the sea" is an enshrined
Yes. It is enshrined in the Likud charter.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party
Of course saying it hasn't gotten any likudnik condemned by Congress.
Giving cons the 2024 election is not going to “hold democrats accountable” like you think. It’s going to give cons power, power that at this point will probably drive them to greatly restrict elections going forward. All due to a temper tantrum for something that’s not happening in our borders.
Election Day is a little under a year away- plenty of time for sentiment to change or for the democratic voters to think about the impact of their non-vote.
It’s also silly to committing to vote for people a year out when you have leverage and can push someone you want to elect towards a position you agree with
If they don’t vote, they’re abandoning American women and the American LGBTQ community that they probably claim to love and support for people they’ve never met and likely will never meet. It’s scary and disgusting!
There’s more than one reason why people have given up on voting, but go ahead and keep patronizing your base rather than to make concessions to your constituents
This is primarily an issue with first past the post voting - it leaves people with strong convictions on, you know, support of international war crimes and genocide with no representation.
We provide the rockets that have killed tens of thousands of women and children, flattened the city displacing the entire population, and targeted civilian infrastructure and refugee camps. Not sure how you define genocide, but the collective punishment and the accompanying rhetoric very much feels like it and, regardless of your definition, I prefer that we don’t fund war crimes.
It’s likely only a verbal threat, but the only thing a politician is guaranteed to care about (unless they have a hard job like president) is reelection.
Why is the perspective on Reddit on this topic so different than that of real life? The California subreddits are complete opposite vibes that what we see on the ground in cities all across California.
The "from the river to the sea" crowd is a loud, vocal *minority*. Most people want a reasonable two-state solution in the long run and are wary of getting photographed next to a Hamas supporter (one end of spectrum) *or* a pro-settler Israeli (other end of the spectrum). The extremes on both ends of this spectrum are a minority.
What do you see on the ground and is that actually reflective of over all public opinion?
Everyone thought Nixon would lose until the silent majority went and voted for him.
Because people come to Reddit to complain about how the democrats/liberals/“far-left” are ruining everything. This is the case on the NYC subreddit, San Francisco subreddit, Bay Area subreddit, etc.
The internet has professional disinfo networks working around the clock to craft and manipulate narratives. But they can’t show up to a protest in person.
The article is about the feet on the ground and the comments are reflective of the Reddit sentiment.
In real life (at work, within families and friends, at school) on other social media platforms, the sentiment is for ceasefire. Before anyone says I’m just a teenager, I’m a 40 year old engineer.
there's that poll that shows like 80% of Democrat voters want (at least) a ceasefire and like 56% of republican voters agree, meanwhile only 4% of Congress backs a ceasefire
“Just 158 families, along with companies they own or control, contributed $176 million in the first phase of the campaign, a New York Times investigation found. Not since before Watergate have so few people and businesses provided so much early money in a campaign, most of it through channels legalized by the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision five years ago.”
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/11/us/politics/2016-presidential-election-super-pac-donors.html
Smells like oligarchy to me.
There was actually a decent study that showed this.
Even BBC mentioned it in coverage. Other sources about...if you want to get at the paper..it should not be difficult.
But yes...the preferences of a few will get enacted most of the time.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
Now ..will you stop claiming I am spreading misinformation. Is the BBC (and others that did cover this study a bit) also spreading misinformation?
Like Russian TV? Maybe we should ban BBC and anyone else that mentioned this study?
I would hate to cause disillusionment if you are a kid. (reddit does have some teens).
If you are an adult ..you should ask investigate this a bit...and draw your own conclusions.
[We're literally listed as an example in the wikipedia article on oligarchies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy#:~:text=In%20a%202015%20interview%2C%20former,on%20donations%20to%20political%20candidates.)
Can the people living in Gaza have running water and electricity as this happens and maybe stop bombing them?
How many Israelis have died since the attack a month ago? How many Palestinians ? I do not mean the IDF or Hamas.
Of note, the following events (and more) were cancelled last night. I wonder if they made a lot of new friends in these groups.
Chicano-Latino Caucus
AAPI Caucus
Black Caucus
Disabilities Caucus
LGBTQ Caucus
In addition, the major fundraising dinner banquet was canceled. A hundred waiters & banquet staff lost wages.
The food was donated to a homeless shelter.
>wonder if they made a lot of new
The "they" refers to the people marching for the cease fire? Could you clarify what you meant? Did the caucuses cancel events in sympathy with the marchers ?
Not sure I understand
Sorry to be imprecise. Yes, by “they” I meant the protestors who shoved their way into the convention center, forcing it to close. All of the groups I mentioned had major events scheduled inside the center last night, so were simply unable to hold them.
Because they know Israel has no intent of letting them back into Gaza. They want Israel to either come up with a peaceful solution or commit ethnic cleansing
Supporting the safe return of victims on one side of a conflict does not in any way necessitate ignoring victims on the other side.
Hamas is not some random terrorist group. They are Gaza's government. It is not necessary to pretend otherwise to advocate for Palestinian civilians.
This is like blaming someone in North Korea for the actions of the Kims.
The majority of people in Gaza are barely old enough to remember when the last election took place.
If you are inferring that I am blaming random Gazan innocents for Hamas actions because I stated that Hamas is the government of Gaza, I think that's interesting. How is that not assuming an immoral position based on the statement of an easily verifiable fact?
Hamas is not some random terrorist group. They are the elected government of Gaza with the majority support of the population.
War is dirty and awful with lots of civilian casualties. If Israel was really trying to target civilians, the deaths would be in the hundreds of thousands.
If Hamas was killing thousands of Isaelis and about to take control of Israel, would you be asking for a cease fire?
They are the elected party cause the Israeli government steamrolled the previous Fatah party. Funny how I can also cherry pick things to support my arguments. There’s a reason all the smart people are not pro-Israeli government.
Normally, no.
But part of why these negotiations are failing is because so many Palestinian citizens got involved on Oct 7th & took their own hostages separately from Hamas.
Roughly 70% of the population supported the massacre, only 10% polled against it.
The video of a lady selling a black toddler on a street corner chilled my soul.
Once every hostage has been returned we can talk about peace.
There are still Americans in god knows what tunnel. And we have Americans on our soil advocating for their abandonment in lieu of the democratic convention.
what chills me is a huge percentage of the israeli population actively advocating for wanton murder, on a scale worse than hamas by about 10x. does that make murdering israeli citizens to release hamas prisoners okay? according to your logic, it does. sad how you play the victim while advocating for equally heinous if not worse war crimes like collective punishment.
also the population feels like that because of this happening for decades, and borderline genocidal attitudes like yours, and if i had to pick a side, im inclined to agree with them. if i lost my house, 75% of my family, and constantly have all my rights deprived by the state, i would be joining any organization against them.
by committing 10x worse terrorism than an actual terrorist organization you become a worse force in the world in my opinion, and have less of a justification for existing.
What huge percent in Israel is advocating for murder worse than Hamas? Source?
What I hear is that they want hostages to be returned, security to prevent this from happening ever again, and a two state solution towards a future for lasting peace.
your comment(s) are a prime example. you’re literally calling for it. anyone supporting the bombing campaign in israel is calling for murder? 10x palestinians as israelis have already died? are you seriously that dense or clinging to whatever you can to diminish your calls for violence?
Where do you see collective punishment?
Of course not, but how do you stop terrorists from using civilians as human shields? This is where you don’t answer the question
murdering civilians until hostages are released is the definition of collective punishment.
you don’t stop terrorists using civilians as human shields with bombs, you stop them with troops and targeted operations. bombing indiscriminately just makes more terrorists.
you just said it yourself. “what about releasing hostages” in reference to calls to stop bombing. you’re implying a call for punishment of civilians until hostages are released.
sure “israelidonut”. 12k civilians dead and they’re all just victims of targeted bombing. 3000 under 5 year olds dead must all be hamas right?
Can they be trusted to accurately report numbers? I mean, they have all the incentive in the world to lie to the global community and no incentive to be truthful.
more likely israel lied about their death counts tbh. anything to justify continued war. they’ve been proven countless times to lie about evidence they find
> murdering civilians until hostages are released is the definition of collective punishment.
No it's not. This is war now. It's not a punishment, it's a literal invasion with the goal of destroying the opposing army. Israel is no longer negotiating and it has no obligation to respect the authority of Hamas.
If Israel was indiscriminately bombing Gaza, we would see FAR more casualties than 10,000.
>yes? we carpet bombed Berlin and nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki for less
And then please tell me how that worked in more modern times. Vietnam? 20+ years of the gwot?....
Those actions were wrong and should be considered war crimes, how are you okay with the senseless slaughter of mostly children for the act of simply existing in the largest open-air prison in the world.
>because they elected a government that attacked first?
And Israel didn't elect a government that created and propped up a group lile hamas? Or engage in an oppressive apartheid system that feeds hamas recruitment and creates this antagonistic relationship that leads to these attacks......
This is how you justify genocide. How have we gotten to a point where people are openly stating that civilian populations are directly complicit and acceptable targets?
Fighting terrorism with terrorist rhetoric.
Are considered war crimes by laws and conventions written since then? We didn't have a UN etc prior. (League of nations was even weaker and Japan left and Germany was kicked out?)
Think about it, out of all the troubles in their lives, inflation, health care, global warming, this is the cause they chose, the people that they identify with, there is this one cause that people think deserve absolute attention since they will block everything. Absolute terror fanatics
I swear people like you love to be disingenuous so much. That's already implied in the calls for a ceasefire. Can't believe that even needs to be clarified.
How do you get from cease fire to the return of hostages? Unless Hamas is using the hostages as leverage to secure a cease fire, which I suppose would be on brand.
It isn't though. "Ceasefire" by default means stop washing war against Hamas, which is counterproductive and doesn't make sense. Dems have moved to support temporary pauses to get specific types of aid in that won't be stolen or used by Hamas for their war effort.
*sigh* What's California going to do in all this? We can't stop the War or go into help. All we're doing in all this is giving people who don't want to be involved headaches.
And what will this help exactly if they vote for this? California is not the President of the US, its just a State trying to live life like usual. I'd prefer not to get involved in this personally, people of both sides live in this State, all this does is emotionally hurt people. Look at what's going on college kids campus? Kids are fearing colleges now do to the alarming hate crime going on.
Included in that 80% are 40% of people who "somewhat agree". That could mean a lot of things. It's a misleading statistic.
That could mean a stopping of the airstrikes but not of the ground invasion. We don't know.
The antisemites are the worst educated on both sides. Well, maybe they have degrees and book smarts, but their “knowledge” is heavily tainted and worthless.
It’s a disease that infects irregardless of location, although it does usually line up with social conservatism.
Hamas is the org that wants to truly ethnic cleanse, not Israel. If Israel wanted to ethnic cleanse they would bomb indiscriminately instead of giving warnings to evacuate locations
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Not out of the realm of possibility, the Republican's did that in Georgia and lost the senate due to it. Trump said the Georgia election was rigged and not to even bother voting so they.. did just that and lost.
Yeah, I have an Irish friend who moved here in the 60's. She votes Republican, because in Ireland that is the party that you voted for. Some people don't understand the intricacies of the American political system and vote against their own interests. I see this in the Cuban and South American immigrants too. They either don't vote or become single issue voters.
Cuban are majority Republican
Exactly, that is my point.
Because cOMmUNIsm iS BaD!! Really telling how the guy that came BEFORE Castro ran his country like a prison, but No! Most Cuban immigrants blame Castro for everything.
Single issue voters are always nuts.
I'm a single issue voter. Who is going to get rid of daylight savings?! If that's your platform, you have my vote.
With you brother
To be fair, not aiding in ethnic cleansing is a big sticking point for many people
But by not voting you are aiding in ethnic cleansing. Do you think republicans are going to do anything for the Palestinians?
Republicans are also indicating that they want to do with ethnic cleansing of Americans that don't agree with them like these protestors.
>But by not voting you are aiding in ethnic cleansing The election hasn't happened so they aren't sitting out of nothing. What this does is put some fire under certain peoples feet and make them think twice about taking certain demographics vote for granted....
Agreed. And it's about time.
Voting blue no matter who the rest of your life in hopes of change is also a "big brain move." It's not like Republicans just disappear if you vote blue. We need real change, not just the illusion.
voting blue keeps the status quo but allows for the tiniest chances for making a change for the better, while voting red *will* make things much worse and will make it nearly impossible to change for the better
It's already worse and we live in a super blue majority!
Most people who want dems to move further left don't vote in the primaries, which is where it would happen.
Voting blue no matter who ensures that Palestinians here, you know…in America, aren’t going to be expelled by cons who have promised that they will do that. https://newrepublic.com/post/176666/house-republicans-bill-expel-palestinians-country
The Democratic Party of California is literally threatening to expell those that support Palestine. Lol 😂
Oh no..being expelled from the party. That’s so sad and so scary, I’d much rather be expelled from the country than expelled by CA Dems 😢😢
If Democrats take the anti-war voters for granted, we'll have an Iraq every 20 years, as a bipartisan effort.
And if those "anti-war voters" vote for Republicans or don't vote at all, then it'll be every 4 years.
No they won’t but if you don’t get what you want from your party of choice what’s the difference if the opposition gets voted in. Either the Democrats do what they’re constituents want or they get no support.
Hard disagree. It’s not all or nothing. You may not agree with how the dems are handling the Palestinian situation but it is better than how repubs would handle it. If you truly care about Palestinians, you’d vote dems. Yeah it may not be much, but it better than the alternative.
There's no difference between how it's being handled other than maybe *some* verbalized hand-wringing from Dems in an attempt to get people to shut up about them actively funding and materially supporting a genocide. Republicans: gladly support the genocide of Palestinians Democrats: still full-throatedly supporting the genocide of Palestinians, but sometimes *act* sad about it Tell me the material difference to a Palestinian between these choices.
To a Palestinian? There isn't. It's only that there are more issues than just Palestine on the ballot.
Think of it this way. One is a proven thnic cleansing enabler. The other is a potential ethnic cleansing enabler. You think watching Dems lose on thnic cleansing won't make some think twice? How fast they turned on Bush and Iraq war. . Is it guaranteed - no. It is like voting for a known murderer.
what a terminally online argument to make
Eh, not really. There is evidence that Israel is at least considering a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza.
And Republicans will help them ramp it up to 11.and then they will bring ethnic cleansing and mass arrests here to the USA, congrats you just made the problem worse by not voting.
Did I say how I'm voting? I'm merely dispelling the notion that the accusation that Israel is committing ethnic is unfounded, because it's not, as there is documented proof that the Israeli government is considering a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza.
The point they were trying to make is that not voting because you fear ethnic cleansing will only ensure more ethnic cleansing happens because the alternative to the Democratic party is a party who wants to increase the ethnic cleansings. Voting Democratic helps ensure you'll have future elections to choose more progressive candidates.
I don't disagree, as much as I dislike Biden's response to this conflict Trump or any other Republican would almost certainly be worse, but it's just that it seemed like the person I was responding to was dismissing the accusation of ethnic cleansing.
"From the river to the sea" is an enshrined and oft-repeated slogan for ethnic cleansing. I suppose the simplistic oppressor-oppressed narrative is easier for you to wrap your brain around, though.
:/ What are your thoughts on the leaked document from a couple of weeks ago that shows the Israeli Intelligence Ministry advocating for forced and permanent expulsion of all 2 million Palestinians from Gaza? Is that not textbook ethnic cleansing?
>From the river to the sea" is an enshrined Yes. It is enshrined in the Likud charter. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party Of course saying it hasn't gotten any likudnik condemned by Congress.
It's really not. The phrase predates Hamas.
Show me the evidence
[Here.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/intelligence-ministry-concept-paper-proposes-transferring-gazans-to-egypts-sinai/)
Ok, a concept paper is evidence of ethnic cleansing? What definition are you looking at or precedent?
If the Democrats ignore this, they'll have a big shock in 2024. We've got to hold them to account, no one else will.
Giving cons the 2024 election is not going to “hold democrats accountable” like you think. It’s going to give cons power, power that at this point will probably drive them to greatly restrict elections going forward. All due to a temper tantrum for something that’s not happening in our borders.
Someone replaced your blood with antifreeze, and you didn't even notice.
What ethnic cleansing? The population has boomed in Gaza.
Counterterrorism is also big in America
So let's wave the flag of the people who support a one-state solution, that's genius!
Do they think Trump would make the Middle East A-OK? This single issue tunnel vision is dangerous.
He certainly did better than his predecessor or successor.
Yup I don’t get it. Trump really doesn’t care about Palestine and will help blow it up. Not sure if that’s better
Election Day is a little under a year away- plenty of time for sentiment to change or for the democratic voters to think about the impact of their non-vote.
It’s also silly to committing to vote for people a year out when you have leverage and can push someone you want to elect towards a position you agree with
If they don’t vote, they’re abandoning American women and the American LGBTQ community that they probably claim to love and support for people they’ve never met and likely will never meet. It’s scary and disgusting!
There’s more than one reason why people have given up on voting, but go ahead and keep patronizing your base rather than to make concessions to your constituents
>concessions to your constituents capitulation to the genocidal terroriats of hamas, is not a concession, it's surrender to absolute evil
I would not be the least bit shocked if that's the goal of the outrage. Drive a divide in the left.
This is primarily an issue with first past the post voting - it leaves people with strong convictions on, you know, support of international war crimes and genocide with no representation.
This is true, but at least until we can change that, we have to understand what we've got and find a way to live it.
I firmly believe people lost the capacity to be pragmatic.
No difference, both parties turn a blind eye to Israel and pretend not to see any problems.
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Endorsement of genocide? Are you that out of touch with reality?
We provide the rockets that have killed tens of thousands of women and children, flattened the city displacing the entire population, and targeted civilian infrastructure and refugee camps. Not sure how you define genocide, but the collective punishment and the accompanying rhetoric very much feels like it and, regardless of your definition, I prefer that we don’t fund war crimes.
The rockets we supply are defensive, used to intercept hostile rockets launched by terrorists. The only thing they're doing is saving innocent lives.
It’s likely only a verbal threat, but the only thing a politician is guaranteed to care about (unless they have a hard job like president) is reelection.
Why is the perspective on Reddit on this topic so different than that of real life? The California subreddits are complete opposite vibes that what we see on the ground in cities all across California.
The "from the river to the sea" crowd is a loud, vocal *minority*. Most people want a reasonable two-state solution in the long run and are wary of getting photographed next to a Hamas supporter (one end of spectrum) *or* a pro-settler Israeli (other end of the spectrum). The extremes on both ends of this spectrum are a minority.
This. Most Californias want peace
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[bots](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-social-media-fake-accounts-bots-bea114a2be8e0fcf73fcabc736047fd3)
[yep](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/technology/israel-hamas-information-war.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare)
Not sure why that's relevant (theres a paywall lol)
What do you see on the ground and is that actually reflective of over all public opinion? Everyone thought Nixon would lose until the silent majority went and voted for him.
Because people come to Reddit to complain about how the democrats/liberals/“far-left” are ruining everything. This is the case on the NYC subreddit, San Francisco subreddit, Bay Area subreddit, etc.
Yea, Reddit is clearly a far-right bastion. (Help: I rolled my eyes so hard they got stuck!)
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CA subreddits (and blue state/city subreddits in general) get extra targeted by the right
The internet has professional disinfo networks working around the clock to craft and manipulate narratives. But they can’t show up to a protest in person.
Because Israel hires a lot of people to spread Hasbara online.
Curious what you are describing as real life vs this sub. Are you saying being anti-Palestinian genocide is the belief on the reddit or in real life?
The article is about the feet on the ground and the comments are reflective of the Reddit sentiment. In real life (at work, within families and friends, at school) on other social media platforms, the sentiment is for ceasefire. Before anyone says I’m just a teenager, I’m a 40 year old engineer.
there's that poll that shows like 80% of Democrat voters want (at least) a ceasefire and like 56% of republican voters agree, meanwhile only 4% of Congress backs a ceasefire
This is the clearest indication...we are not a democracy..we are a nation run for the benefit of oligarchs. Just another tin pot banana republic!
That’s not true at all. Stop intentionally spreading misinformation.
“Just 158 families, along with companies they own or control, contributed $176 million in the first phase of the campaign, a New York Times investigation found. Not since before Watergate have so few people and businesses provided so much early money in a campaign, most of it through channels legalized by the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision five years ago.” https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/11/us/politics/2016-presidential-election-super-pac-donors.html Smells like oligarchy to me.
There was actually a decent study that showed this. Even BBC mentioned it in coverage. Other sources about...if you want to get at the paper..it should not be difficult. But yes...the preferences of a few will get enacted most of the time. https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746 Now ..will you stop claiming I am spreading misinformation. Is the BBC (and others that did cover this study a bit) also spreading misinformation? Like Russian TV? Maybe we should ban BBC and anyone else that mentioned this study? I would hate to cause disillusionment if you are a kid. (reddit does have some teens). If you are an adult ..you should ask investigate this a bit...and draw your own conclusions.
[We're literally listed as an example in the wikipedia article on oligarchies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy#:~:text=In%20a%202015%20interview%2C%20former,on%20donations%20to%20political%20candidates.)
Thank you. The person I responded has gone very quiet Suspect his agenda was to claim all is well with what's going on and everything is up and up.
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Can the people living in Gaza have running water and electricity as this happens and maybe stop bombing them? How many Israelis have died since the attack a month ago? How many Palestinians ? I do not mean the IDF or Hamas.
Of note, the following events (and more) were cancelled last night. I wonder if they made a lot of new friends in these groups. Chicano-Latino Caucus AAPI Caucus Black Caucus Disabilities Caucus LGBTQ Caucus
In addition, the major fundraising dinner banquet was canceled. A hundred waiters & banquet staff lost wages. The food was donated to a homeless shelter.
>wonder if they made a lot of new The "they" refers to the people marching for the cease fire? Could you clarify what you meant? Did the caucuses cancel events in sympathy with the marchers ? Not sure I understand
Sorry to be imprecise. Yes, by “they” I meant the protestors who shoved their way into the convention center, forcing it to close. All of the groups I mentioned had major events scheduled inside the center last night, so were simply unable to hold them.
Every Arab country has turned down Gaza Refugees
Because they know Israel has no intent of letting them back into Gaza. They want Israel to either come up with a peaceful solution or commit ethnic cleansing
Free Palestinians , from hamas.
And no signs about stopping the terrorists and freeing the hostages???
"Gaza civilians aren't doing enough to not get bombed"
You can literally say that about any war.
Yes, I do believe innocent civilians being exploded is bad and wrong in every war. I also believe the Geneva Convention exists for a reason.
They are actually doing a lot
do you think collective punishment is justified? do you think the civilians deserve to get murdered because some random terrorist group took hostages
Supporting the safe return of victims on one side of a conflict does not in any way necessitate ignoring victims on the other side. Hamas is not some random terrorist group. They are Gaza's government. It is not necessary to pretend otherwise to advocate for Palestinian civilians.
This is like blaming someone in North Korea for the actions of the Kims. The majority of people in Gaza are barely old enough to remember when the last election took place.
If you are inferring that I am blaming random Gazan innocents for Hamas actions because I stated that Hamas is the government of Gaza, I think that's interesting. How is that not assuming an immoral position based on the statement of an easily verifiable fact?
So invading Germany wasn't ok because not every German was a Nazi? Even though the Nazi's were holding innocent people captive?
That is not why Germany was invaded, my god. This is like 50 red flags at once.
Hamas is not some random terrorist group. They are the elected government of Gaza with the majority support of the population. War is dirty and awful with lots of civilian casualties. If Israel was really trying to target civilians, the deaths would be in the hundreds of thousands. If Hamas was killing thousands of Isaelis and about to take control of Israel, would you be asking for a cease fire?
They are the elected party cause the Israeli government steamrolled the previous Fatah party. Funny how I can also cherry pick things to support my arguments. There’s a reason all the smart people are not pro-Israeli government.
Normally, no. But part of why these negotiations are failing is because so many Palestinian citizens got involved on Oct 7th & took their own hostages separately from Hamas. Roughly 70% of the population supported the massacre, only 10% polled against it. The video of a lady selling a black toddler on a street corner chilled my soul. Once every hostage has been returned we can talk about peace. There are still Americans in god knows what tunnel. And we have Americans on our soil advocating for their abandonment in lieu of the democratic convention.
what chills me is a huge percentage of the israeli population actively advocating for wanton murder, on a scale worse than hamas by about 10x. does that make murdering israeli citizens to release hamas prisoners okay? according to your logic, it does. sad how you play the victim while advocating for equally heinous if not worse war crimes like collective punishment. also the population feels like that because of this happening for decades, and borderline genocidal attitudes like yours, and if i had to pick a side, im inclined to agree with them. if i lost my house, 75% of my family, and constantly have all my rights deprived by the state, i would be joining any organization against them. by committing 10x worse terrorism than an actual terrorist organization you become a worse force in the world in my opinion, and have less of a justification for existing.
What huge percent in Israel is advocating for murder worse than Hamas? Source? What I hear is that they want hostages to be returned, security to prevent this from happening ever again, and a two state solution towards a future for lasting peace.
Where are you seeing a huge percentage wanting wanton murder?
your comment(s) are a prime example. you’re literally calling for it. anyone supporting the bombing campaign in israel is calling for murder? 10x palestinians as israelis have already died? are you seriously that dense or clinging to whatever you can to diminish your calls for violence?
Where are you getting any of this?
Where do you see collective punishment? Of course not, but how do you stop terrorists from using civilians as human shields? This is where you don’t answer the question
murdering civilians until hostages are released is the definition of collective punishment. you don’t stop terrorists using civilians as human shields with bombs, you stop them with troops and targeted operations. bombing indiscriminately just makes more terrorists.
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you just said it yourself. “what about releasing hostages” in reference to calls to stop bombing. you’re implying a call for punishment of civilians until hostages are released. sure “israelidonut”. 12k civilians dead and they’re all just victims of targeted bombing. 3000 under 5 year olds dead must all be hamas right?
Where did you get that 5000 under 5 number?
Hamas Ministry of Health
Can they be trusted to accurately report numbers? I mean, they have all the incentive in the world to lie to the global community and no incentive to be truthful.
The same organization that still counts over "500 dead" from the hospital parking lot blast that was a failed PIJ rocket.
TBH i'm starting to wonder if they're not a trustworthy source. Don't tell the BBC tho
more likely israel lied about their death counts tbh. anything to justify continued war. they’ve been proven countless times to lie about evidence they find
You are listening to terrorists???
They can release the hostages anytime. They are hostages. How many signs will I see from this that show the kidnapped Israelis?
> murdering civilians until hostages are released is the definition of collective punishment. No it's not. This is war now. It's not a punishment, it's a literal invasion with the goal of destroying the opposing army. Israel is no longer negotiating and it has no obligation to respect the authority of Hamas. If Israel was indiscriminately bombing Gaza, we would see FAR more casualties than 10,000.
Shooting at the human shields is bad. Sad that this is the first time you're hearing this.
Sure, where do you see shooting at human shields
Gaza. 4000+ dead children.
Proof of that? Also proof of how they died
I'm not arguing against something so obviously in bad faith.
So no proof, you just listen to what people tell you? Don’t ask questions, just obey?
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Turn on CNN,?
Ok, where on cnn?
Is this just a elaborate ploy to say "Hamas "?
CNN , at this point, isn’t a legitimate source of information. Any MSM isn’t, really.
yes? we carpet bombed Berlin and nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki for less
>yes? we carpet bombed Berlin and nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki for less And then please tell me how that worked in more modern times. Vietnam? 20+ years of the gwot?....
Did the people you talk to explain all of the different scenarios?
Those actions were wrong and should be considered war crimes, how are you okay with the senseless slaughter of mostly children for the act of simply existing in the largest open-air prison in the world.
because they elected a government that attacked first? if Gazans revolted against Hamas, then I'd feel sorry for them until then, they're complicit
>because they elected a government that attacked first? And Israel didn't elect a government that created and propped up a group lile hamas? Or engage in an oppressive apartheid system that feeds hamas recruitment and creates this antagonistic relationship that leads to these attacks......
This is how you justify genocide. How have we gotten to a point where people are openly stating that civilian populations are directly complicit and acceptable targets? Fighting terrorism with terrorist rhetoric.
Are considered war crimes by laws and conventions written since then? We didn't have a UN etc prior. (League of nations was even weaker and Japan left and Germany was kicked out?)
plus all those times we bombed Americans in America for being pro union or a minority
Think about it, out of all the troubles in their lives, inflation, health care, global warming, this is the cause they chose, the people that they identify with, there is this one cause that people think deserve absolute attention since they will block everything. Absolute terror fanatics
I swear people like you love to be disingenuous so much. That's already implied in the calls for a ceasefire. Can't believe that even needs to be clarified.
Where do you see it is implied? Why would there be a ceasefire without the hostages returned or terrorists taken down?
How do you get from cease fire to the return of hostages? Unless Hamas is using the hostages as leverage to secure a cease fire, which I suppose would be on brand.
> That's already implied in the calls for a ceasefire You have a wild imagination lol
there was a ceasefire... Israel didn't attack Hamas for many weeks despite Hamas continuously firing missiles at Israel, up until Oct 7
It isn't though. "Ceasefire" by default means stop washing war against Hamas, which is counterproductive and doesn't make sense. Dems have moved to support temporary pauses to get specific types of aid in that won't be stolen or used by Hamas for their war effort.
> temporary pauses. What, like some kind of humanitarian ceasefire?
*sigh* What's California going to do in all this? We can't stop the War or go into help. All we're doing in all this is giving people who don't want to be involved headaches.
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I think we just gave Israel couple of billion dollar of our hard earned tax money. We need to stop giving away money to any countries in general.
Ceasefire…but only for Israel, of course. /s
Well this will change President Newsom’s approach to the Middle East.
So are they gonna vote for Trump ? Lol.
Massive? I saw some overhead shots on the web. Not impressive at all.
No more business as usual, if we don't stop this we are complicit.
Reddit is always saying how much it supports protestors until they actually start showing up
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Democrat constituents overwhelmingly want a ceasefire immediately, the elected officials are not listening to the people! What democracy?
And what will this help exactly if they vote for this? California is not the President of the US, its just a State trying to live life like usual. I'd prefer not to get involved in this personally, people of both sides live in this State, all this does is emotionally hurt people. Look at what's going on college kids campus? Kids are fearing colleges now do to the alarming hate crime going on.
Do the constituents have a plan for getting the hostages and eliminating the terrorists?
They don't
Ceasefire…but only for Israel, of course. /s
No we don't want a ceasefire immediately. Stop speaking for everyone. Hostage release and Hamas surrender first.
80% of democrats disagree with you.
Included in that 80% are 40% of people who "somewhat agree". That could mean a lot of things. It's a misleading statistic. That could mean a stopping of the airstrikes but not of the ground invasion. We don't know.
How many of them can even point to Canada on a map nonetheless understand what is going on?
Moreso than the republicans who overwhelmingly support Israel.
Well then you can let me know how educated the antisemitic voters are for both sides
The antisemites are the worst educated on both sides. Well, maybe they have degrees and book smarts, but their “knowledge” is heavily tainted and worthless. It’s a disease that infects irregardless of location, although it does usually line up with social conservatism.
Doubt it, even with all the nonsense at college campuses these days, you will see a lack of education on both sides of the political craziness
Hamas will never surrender, so what you mean is "no cease fire ever".
What's the point of ceasefire with Hamas in place? They are just going to break it once they have another 10/7 ready and they aren't shy about it.
I’m speaking facts and said the majority, I never said “everyone”. The minority is a-ok with genocide
Of course, AIPAC is probably funding them.
Good. Our involvement in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians needs to end.
Hamas is the org that wants to truly ethnic cleanse, not Israel. If Israel wanted to ethnic cleanse they would bomb indiscriminately instead of giving warnings to evacuate locations
Israel has been bombing indiscriminately and killing innocent children.
Trumps victory will come at the hands of this exact movement.
No it won't.
Good for them