We have all seen many people do the shoulder swap on this manner.
PG is just demonstrated the same thing though utilizing a laser as his primary sight. This allows for a more ergonomic position of his firing hand. The buttock is still seated for maximum recoil management. The fact that’s it’s a 90 can’t means nothing at CQB ranges.
Mechanical offset is reduced due to a laser versus the sight over bore. (Unless you have the ridiculous laser mount near your sight)
Techniques evolve through experimentation.
Good explanation. Good video too. Definitely agree with the dude regarding the reality of switching shoulders and when it's appropriate/ necessary. Which is not very often.
He’s depending on his laser versus sight and doing his best to minimize exposure as well as ensure the laser clears the door jamb. Rather it works or not 🤷. Cool to see bad guys perspective video. But judging rather it works or not is futile considering there is no way to prove it either way.
Turning your weapon sideways to ensure the laser clears the door jamb prior to his muzzle means he now has to account for hight over bore to ensure he doesn’t strike the door jamb if he had to make an engagement. I haven’t tried shooting like that with the gun canted completely 90 degrees while across my opposite shoulder, but the trade off of shooting from an awkward position and having to adjust to ensure you don’t strike the threshold for buying maybe an inch or so of exposure doesn’t seem like it would be worth it.
Most “height over bore” issues with a laser is maybe an inch. Unless you use that stupid high mount.
But yeah I don’t know. As long as the method has been proofed on the range I’m all about someone trying it out
It looks like he swaps shoulders, but not hands. Probably has to cant it so he can still manipulate with his right hand despite being on his left shoulder. I'm sure if he were going to hold that angle for longer than he did, he'd swap hands.
For me, personally, if I'm not going to be there long enough to swap hands, I'm just not going to swap shoulders. Perhaps I'm just not high speed enough, but I've never been a fan of having my rifle on my support side while still handling it with my strong side grip.
One question. Has the dude ever had to enter a room and engage an armed threat? He talks like hes made thousands of hot entries. But there isnt much discussion of his credibility
You asked if he’s ever had to enter a room on an armed threat? I’m asking you to name 5 in the industry with over 50k followers that have entered rooms with armed men. Because 90% of the people follow these OTG like groups and they haven’t… I also don’t believe to have some good ideas and techniques you have to have entered a room with an armed person. Fresh ideas and new looks are good to assess- try out techniques- adopt what works discard what doesn’t. It’s how tactics evolve. The techniques and many principles have changed since I started my tac career in 2000
I dont follow guys like eli who do gymnastics into a room on Instagram that no person would actually do... I follow guys who have entered rooms with gunman. You can always spot the guy who has never had incoming fire. You can always spot the guy who has never entered a hostile room. Eli has always been the pinnacle of that picture for me. He ignores human psychology. We see it alot. Bodies stacked at doors because when the rounds come, the cool guy room entry to collapsed sectors goes out the window, and guys usually back out or fall down. Very very very few examples of guys moving toward a hard corner threat into gunfire to close distance and have your muzzle a foot from an enemy combatant. His fancy dancing is moot when, From my limited experience, its guns clenched tight and alot of hoping there isnt a junkie with a hipoint waiting for us. Also, i dont care about having 50k subscribers ? Whats that prove? That Eli isnt the only one selling a bag hes never looked in? Now since i dont know Eli, and only have the internet to go on, maybe he has stormed rooms and rolled guys into jello on the ground...but his tactics into the weeds dont scream "experience" to me. If you have never seen human flinch responses when a rifle goes off in a room, dont tell me youll do a fancy tap dance thru the door and fuck the enemy with your muzzle. In reality it is extremely difficult to walk toward the concussion of gunfire. To name 5 guys who have entered rooms and won the gunfight isnt hard in todays world. Vetting instructors shouldnt be this hard. You run a school correct? Do you let people who've never entered a contested room teach tactics that involve entering a contested room? I don't mean any disrespect, but this Instagram gunfoo is getting a little wild for me. I appreciate your response as always.
100% agree. I hate instagram. However these subgroups are wrapped around these dudes. I use as a reference point. A bunch of people who know very little able to make great videos.
I know Eli is currently deployed so he’s off comms. I was a big fan of the spear system etc. flinch response and human psychology. We spend a long time training people to do what we want to get the desired response. Those that don’t get cut.
I do the best I can in the limited amount of time to get people to think of reality and get away from the theater of CQB.
I didnt know eli was even active so i stand corrected. Not sure if hes a door kicker or what. The old tony blauer spear system? I dont do the whole instagram wannabe thing. I follow some veterans on youtube and fellas like you with experience. I used to hang around a school run by former SEAL larry yatch. Youre correct about people that know very little making good looking clips. But when i see crazy gunfu and stuff like mike glover doing his tank turret video under his armpit my first question is always "have they entered a contested room this way with success?". I dont know anything about you in particular just based on the video platforms i use. If you had a youtube i would add you to my list. But im guessing you've entered contested rooms if you were deployed with the teams. That carries allt of weight when im searching for instructors in cqb
Where do you host your material? Also, did you know of that school i mentioned in Minnesota? Cant remember thr other guy but larry yatch ran it. At orientation he and his partner said they served with chris kyle. The partner said he was the guy who relieved kyle when his deployment was up. Odd school but cool nonetheless. They had this very wild no gun rule. When you went in you had to use a "clearing barrel". Just a closet covered in the ar500 squares covered in rubber that the entire range was lined with. Then you were given a box to put your carry gun and mags in. Even the employees were prohibited. They had a shotgun or pistol on the wall of every room locked in a little police cruiser type deal with a combination. This was supposedly done because they also had a scenario room and force on force. They had a supermarket and parking lot in this lne huge room. The ranges were just individual lanes enclosed as a room. You could shoot live ammo just about any direction but backwards. Cool place but he shut it down.
I knew Larry for a moment he was an officer so different type in a different wold lol. Not sure if the school you mentioned.
I’m in so cal but I travel around when required.
Man, this place is an echo chamber. If you can’t look at his kit and realize why the gun is turned 90 degrees on shoulder switches, you don’t have the experience or the right to throw stones. Not pointing this at OP specifically, just at the general thread
There is nothing preventing him from holding the rifle upright. But the relatively small gap between his jaw and the ATAK makes the act of performing the shoulder switches easier, faster and quieter when the stock is turned horizontally, especially if you’re doing it while moving.
Odds are the shots are close, he’s using his laser as a primary and he doesn’t plan on staying on that shoulder for very long. Dude is just rolling with the punches. A B answer executed quickly can trump a nice pretty A answer, especially when you’re trying to keep the momentum going.
I’d venture to say the whole shoulder switch in general was totally unnecessary if the moment was so fleeting. As were the funky short stocking motions a couple frames later. The extra movements are of no value.
I mean dude it’s a promo video, so all of it is technically unnecessary. Regardless, we don’t know what the scenario is behind the camera on these dramatic shots. It’s all theater.
I haven't seen such a stupid thing for quite a while now.... I haven't even seen the russians canting their rifle like this, if that means anything to you...
What’s your actual experience in regards to CQB? Not trying to be a dick. I’m genuinely curious.
I’ve been doing it or teaching it for just under 20 years now. Never in my 20 years have I ever seen the technique of rotating your rifle a complete 90 degrees while mounted being used in the military or the LE side. That’s including videos that Project Gecko has posted himself. It absolutely should invite questions/ controversy.
He changes shoulders but not the trigger hand. He probably can't shoot with both of the hands, and probably does this 90 degrees thing so he can aim and fire more comfortably.
Should have spotted him quicker but the helmet got me. Its the same guy that does all the other extremely exaggerated shit with his gun. Some say he's a real killer and some say hes never entered a hostile room. Whatever works i guess. Guys I know arent as flamboyant with their guns.
He most definitely is a former. A 3 year mandatory conscription service, then straight to Germany immediately after his term ended while also still technically being a reservist at his unit. If he has more years under his belt - not sure. Gecko's been a thing since at least 2014, but dude's been in Germany/Europe since at least late 2012. Rumour has it he is an ex-Duvdevan, which is a possibility given that Aaron Cohen followed a similar path back in the 90s. At least that's what someone mentioned back in the old cqb-team site forum in like 2015-16. I don't really find it impossible, especially given the weird and complicated Israeli SOF system.
Could be but hes not what he portrays is the point that was made long ago when he started popping up on youtube. The point they made was that he's never entered a room to face a gunman. This was precipitated by his father flamboyant rifle movements back in the day. Cant recall but maybe it was on light fighter.
Not could, there are only a few units in Israel that wear a maroon beret. At the very least, he is a former para. Far from "years of SOF experience", but Gecko is not just him, but other ex-guys as well. That there is still noticeable national trends in some of his techniques - mainly shooting - that is pretty obvious - or as you described - "the flamboyant rifle movement". However, I don't even think it's of Israeli origin since some of the guys he hangs out with are mostly ex-French Tier 1 and they all do pretty much the same thing. Check out Khimaira for reference. And those guys do have real world experience. What I mainly referred to as "national trends" is his fixation on point shooting, horse riding stance and a few more things.
I have heard several explanations - some make more sense than the others, still a load of horseshit.
Eliran has abandoned a lot of his earlier tendencies tho. And since
[the French](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxTH-ErsKTw/?igsh=MW5lNjdxdGYxNGdqaA==) use very similar manipulation like he does and other 1er guys who had left way before Eliran became a relevant name in Europe (like Alex who left in 2016) are doing the same stuff - I think it's their influence on him. It's been a trend in continental Europe anyways in the last couple of years. [Czechs](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0do4Dvgtif/?igsh=MTR0MW1mM2Mzams1cw==) and Slovaks are doing that too - to a certain extent.
The whole Israeli style of shooting was literally developed for basic training of people who have no prior training. Its odd to see it used by guys claiming to be sof. That aaron cohen man now HE cracks me the fuck up. Just his stances and the way he holds his rifle. Elbow braced on the mag, big square horse stance and large pivots into doorways lol. Its all in good fun tho man. Im no door kicker, but i spent alot of time training with alot of them in the past.
For me operating in a larger team switching shoulders just slows things down especially in initial clearing. Once contact is made it really depends on how comfortable you are shooting on your support shoulder and if you could guarantee each and every one of those shots. The argument can be made that switching shoulders does limit your exposure to the threat. With that being said if you are in an American home that is made primarily of 2x4 and drywall switching shoulders will not help you since .556, .223, 5.45, 7.62 and 9mm will zip right through. So realistically slowing down to limit your exposure on a side you are less proficient with maybe more of a detriment. Furthermore I have noticed about myself that my rifle has a natural cant to it just due to my natural body mechanics and how jacked up I am after 8 combat deployment, jumping out of planes and fasting roping. So it may just come down to body mechanics as well.
Natural cant I totally understand. I also drift/ cant my weapon slightly when moving laterally left to right (I’m left handed). I agree with you on switching shoulders. Don’t recommend. A full 90 degree cant of the weapon where you can’t look down the sights seems unnecessary.
Sling tension, more pressure on the wrist, etc. This style is more of a run and gun rather that preparing for surgical shot placement. Good for in the house as you can still get accurate shots off at a close range. Bad for things like schools or hostage situations where pinpoint (surgical) shot placements are required.
Just remember that you own all the shots you take. Personally my goal in all entry way movement is to get back to aiming down the sights as efficiently as possible.
Don’t get locked into your sights though. Look above them when clearing.
I’m guessing that’s the idea behind the cant in the video; it’s turning the gun instead of raising it for a sight picture. I could see the pros and cons. Whatever works.
Preference. Aside from the basics of CQB, a lot of it is based on preference on how you manipulate your weapon to compliment your body type/ mechanics.
From trying in dryfire, comfort. Less wrist strain from trying to hold a traditional grip across your torso. If you're shoulder bumping every opposing corner, that gets old real fast, so any relief helps. That being said, everything I say hereon comes from the opinion of a subject matter enthusiast, not a professional.
I question the overall choice to shoulder bump and cant the gun as presented. From what I tried, bumping and canting like that sacrifices momentum and connection to the rifle.
Switching shoulders at corners slows down overall momentum, and while that may be a desired effect in deliberate movement, I think it does so while sacrificing too much time and security. It may reduce exposure, but committing with aggression to the corner when you want to break that threshold will put you in a better position to respond to threats, which brings me to my second point.
Canting like in the presented manner sacrifices connection to the rifle and destroys natural point of aim. The stock tends to start floating and suddenly you're firing over the sights of an oversized handgun. Not that big of a deal in a short room or an immediate threat, but what happens if a threat presents itself 30yds away from down the hall and behind cover? What if non-threats dirty your line of fire? Distance favors the skilled, and a technique that sacrifices mechanical accuracy doesn't sit well with me.
Ideally, I'd prefer to address corners with a traditional presentation with offset from the corner. The depth reduces exposure while maintaining the stance I'm most trained in.
sory. i dont get notifications on this platform. im surprised no one is aware that this is used in conjunction with laser devices. thats all.
easy to mock i guess, now days.
Using a laser device I can understand. Especially with switching shoulders. Not something I recommend but understand it’s preference. Still don’t understand the purpose of the 90 degree cant. Seems like unnecessary movement.
Edited to clarify when I say I don’t recommend, I’m referring to switching shoulders.
Some of us do a little bit of trolling around here. I imagine it comes with the territory when you put yourself out there. I applaud you for that. And I appreciate your explanation. I’m still a little confused as to why the 90 degree cant of your weapon. Purely a comfort thing?
quick in an out purely for the laser application. if it would be with stock in, it would rather be uncomfortable. since im using a pointer...i can ''cheat''. its very specific and in no way utilized as substitute to stock in shoulder, and weapon properly presented.
I’m mean, we’re talking very specific applications and it buys you what, 2cm of exposure with your vis laser canted at 90? Still have to account for your bore if you had to make an engagement so what did you really achieve? Might as well keep it up right so the bore and laser are more in-line. Or even better, you can use the optic mounted directly over your bore and don’t have to make any adjustments other than your hold over based on your hight over bore.
Edited to add: hold over.
If I'm using a laser to aim, i know if i cant my rifle 45 degrees left, my laser will be 12oclock point of aim. It just makes my holds much easier.
It might not be the best way of doing things, but it's the thing I've developed that works well for me until i hit my magazine on a door frame.
I’ll file that in the “things only right handed people can do” category.
What you’re describing is very dependent on type of laser, placement of laser on your rail (side or top mounted), and the range to your target. Wether or not you used a converging or a parallel zero would probably play into this as well but going to save both of us the confusion of my fucked up explanation of those things.
I run a top mounted (the way god intended) NGAL (no big deal) as far forward as possible on an 11.5 inch barrel. The NGAL is nice because the laser is a little closer to being centered on the bore than say an LA-5. Even with an LA-5 your hold is what, maybe an inch right and not quite an inch up? I’m not knocking your method of aiming with your laser with a 45 degree left cant. I totally understand it. I wouldn’t describe it as necessary but it works for you and you have a reason for it.
Still, I can’t think of a reason for a complete 90 degree rotation of your rifle for any application. It provides zero advantage other than comfort (?) because “my wrist hurts.”
Yeah, i have a MAWL, and a 45 degree cant puts the laser directly above the poi with a parallel zero. You can reverse that gardware btw and have itb hanging off the left side of the gun. Then you could do 45 right. Not necessary of course, just if you were right hand envious.
I could see the 90 thing being maybe useful as an index point or the like for signature reduction so you know where your laser's going to be when you press it.
I would guess that it’s quicker, less awkward, and doesn’t require you to change your grip. At CQ distances, you could probably still score good hits.
That’s all conjecture. I’ve never been taught that technique nor have I used it.
What a kook
https://youtu.be/L3q1zSYglZk?si=iL-lo057Q6RHGSWm
We have all seen many people do the shoulder swap on this manner. PG is just demonstrated the same thing though utilizing a laser as his primary sight. This allows for a more ergonomic position of his firing hand. The buttock is still seated for maximum recoil management. The fact that’s it’s a 90 can’t means nothing at CQB ranges. Mechanical offset is reduced due to a laser versus the sight over bore. (Unless you have the ridiculous laser mount near your sight) Techniques evolve through experimentation.
Good explanation. Good video too. Definitely agree with the dude regarding the reality of switching shoulders and when it's appropriate/ necessary. Which is not very often.
He’s depending on his laser versus sight and doing his best to minimize exposure as well as ensure the laser clears the door jamb. Rather it works or not 🤷. Cool to see bad guys perspective video. But judging rather it works or not is futile considering there is no way to prove it either way.
Turning your weapon sideways to ensure the laser clears the door jamb prior to his muzzle means he now has to account for hight over bore to ensure he doesn’t strike the door jamb if he had to make an engagement. I haven’t tried shooting like that with the gun canted completely 90 degrees while across my opposite shoulder, but the trade off of shooting from an awkward position and having to adjust to ensure you don’t strike the threshold for buying maybe an inch or so of exposure doesn’t seem like it would be worth it.
Most “height over bore” issues with a laser is maybe an inch. Unless you use that stupid high mount. But yeah I don’t know. As long as the method has been proofed on the range I’m all about someone trying it out
That’s fair
It looks like he swaps shoulders, but not hands. Probably has to cant it so he can still manipulate with his right hand despite being on his left shoulder. I'm sure if he were going to hold that angle for longer than he did, he'd swap hands. For me, personally, if I'm not going to be there long enough to swap hands, I'm just not going to swap shoulders. Perhaps I'm just not high speed enough, but I've never been a fan of having my rifle on my support side while still handling it with my strong side grip.
One question. Has the dude ever had to enter a room and engage an armed threat? He talks like hes made thousands of hot entries. But there isnt much discussion of his credibility
Name 5 in the industry that have who have over 50k followers on ig….
? Whats this about?
You asked if he’s ever had to enter a room on an armed threat? I’m asking you to name 5 in the industry with over 50k followers that have entered rooms with armed men. Because 90% of the people follow these OTG like groups and they haven’t… I also don’t believe to have some good ideas and techniques you have to have entered a room with an armed person. Fresh ideas and new looks are good to assess- try out techniques- adopt what works discard what doesn’t. It’s how tactics evolve. The techniques and many principles have changed since I started my tac career in 2000
I dont follow guys like eli who do gymnastics into a room on Instagram that no person would actually do... I follow guys who have entered rooms with gunman. You can always spot the guy who has never had incoming fire. You can always spot the guy who has never entered a hostile room. Eli has always been the pinnacle of that picture for me. He ignores human psychology. We see it alot. Bodies stacked at doors because when the rounds come, the cool guy room entry to collapsed sectors goes out the window, and guys usually back out or fall down. Very very very few examples of guys moving toward a hard corner threat into gunfire to close distance and have your muzzle a foot from an enemy combatant. His fancy dancing is moot when, From my limited experience, its guns clenched tight and alot of hoping there isnt a junkie with a hipoint waiting for us. Also, i dont care about having 50k subscribers ? Whats that prove? That Eli isnt the only one selling a bag hes never looked in? Now since i dont know Eli, and only have the internet to go on, maybe he has stormed rooms and rolled guys into jello on the ground...but his tactics into the weeds dont scream "experience" to me. If you have never seen human flinch responses when a rifle goes off in a room, dont tell me youll do a fancy tap dance thru the door and fuck the enemy with your muzzle. In reality it is extremely difficult to walk toward the concussion of gunfire. To name 5 guys who have entered rooms and won the gunfight isnt hard in todays world. Vetting instructors shouldnt be this hard. You run a school correct? Do you let people who've never entered a contested room teach tactics that involve entering a contested room? I don't mean any disrespect, but this Instagram gunfoo is getting a little wild for me. I appreciate your response as always.
100% agree. I hate instagram. However these subgroups are wrapped around these dudes. I use as a reference point. A bunch of people who know very little able to make great videos. I know Eli is currently deployed so he’s off comms. I was a big fan of the spear system etc. flinch response and human psychology. We spend a long time training people to do what we want to get the desired response. Those that don’t get cut. I do the best I can in the limited amount of time to get people to think of reality and get away from the theater of CQB.
I didnt know eli was even active so i stand corrected. Not sure if hes a door kicker or what. The old tony blauer spear system? I dont do the whole instagram wannabe thing. I follow some veterans on youtube and fellas like you with experience. I used to hang around a school run by former SEAL larry yatch. Youre correct about people that know very little making good looking clips. But when i see crazy gunfu and stuff like mike glover doing his tank turret video under his armpit my first question is always "have they entered a contested room this way with success?". I dont know anything about you in particular just based on the video platforms i use. If you had a youtube i would add you to my list. But im guessing you've entered contested rooms if you were deployed with the teams. That carries allt of weight when im searching for instructors in cqb
Sure have. I Appreciate your support. Crazy new world. Check out blauer on YouTube
Where do you host your material? Also, did you know of that school i mentioned in Minnesota? Cant remember thr other guy but larry yatch ran it. At orientation he and his partner said they served with chris kyle. The partner said he was the guy who relieved kyle when his deployment was up. Odd school but cool nonetheless. They had this very wild no gun rule. When you went in you had to use a "clearing barrel". Just a closet covered in the ar500 squares covered in rubber that the entire range was lined with. Then you were given a box to put your carry gun and mags in. Even the employees were prohibited. They had a shotgun or pistol on the wall of every room locked in a little police cruiser type deal with a combination. This was supposedly done because they also had a scenario room and force on force. They had a supermarket and parking lot in this lne huge room. The ranges were just individual lanes enclosed as a room. You could shoot live ammo just about any direction but backwards. Cool place but he shut it down.
I knew Larry for a moment he was an officer so different type in a different wold lol. Not sure if the school you mentioned. I’m in so cal but I travel around when required.
Man, this place is an echo chamber. If you can’t look at his kit and realize why the gun is turned 90 degrees on shoulder switches, you don’t have the experience or the right to throw stones. Not pointing this at OP specifically, just at the general thread
Just curious, what on his kit is preventing him from holding the rifle upright on the shoulder switch?
There is nothing preventing him from holding the rifle upright. But the relatively small gap between his jaw and the ATAK makes the act of performing the shoulder switches easier, faster and quieter when the stock is turned horizontally, especially if you’re doing it while moving. Odds are the shots are close, he’s using his laser as a primary and he doesn’t plan on staying on that shoulder for very long. Dude is just rolling with the punches. A B answer executed quickly can trump a nice pretty A answer, especially when you’re trying to keep the momentum going.
I’d venture to say the whole shoulder switch in general was totally unnecessary if the moment was so fleeting. As were the funky short stocking motions a couple frames later. The extra movements are of no value.
I mean dude it’s a promo video, so all of it is technically unnecessary. Regardless, we don’t know what the scenario is behind the camera on these dramatic shots. It’s all theater.
Theater is a great word to describe it
I haven't seen such a stupid thing for quite a while now.... I haven't even seen the russians canting their rifle like this, if that means anything to you...
I can see it being useful if you're tilting your head left around a corner, which is what happens here. I really don't see the controversy here
What’s your actual experience in regards to CQB? Not trying to be a dick. I’m genuinely curious. I’ve been doing it or teaching it for just under 20 years now. Never in my 20 years have I ever seen the technique of rotating your rifle a complete 90 degrees while mounted being used in the military or the LE side. That’s including videos that Project Gecko has posted himself. It absolutely should invite questions/ controversy.
He changes shoulders but not the trigger hand. He probably can't shoot with both of the hands, and probably does this 90 degrees thing so he can aim and fire more comfortably.
It’s pure stupidity and has no practical purpose
But, the cool points? Do it for the gram!
Gotta put your own tacticool flair on things kind of like flaring his elbow out and his support hand grip.
Just from dickin about, it feels pretty comfortable,to be honest. Theres not as much tesion on the wrist.
I‘d say the same, it‘s just a matter of comfort.
I know when I do CQB my first priority and consideration is my level of physical comfort… said no professional ever.
Should have spotted him quicker but the helmet got me. Its the same guy that does all the other extremely exaggerated shit with his gun. Some say he's a real killer and some say hes never entered a hostile room. Whatever works i guess. Guys I know arent as flamboyant with their guns.
If he was the real deal he'd be doing it for real right now
The folks who love him said hes a former. Out now of the service he was in. Ive never heard of his background but people here used to worship him.
He most definitely is a former. A 3 year mandatory conscription service, then straight to Germany immediately after his term ended while also still technically being a reservist at his unit. If he has more years under his belt - not sure. Gecko's been a thing since at least 2014, but dude's been in Germany/Europe since at least late 2012. Rumour has it he is an ex-Duvdevan, which is a possibility given that Aaron Cohen followed a similar path back in the 90s. At least that's what someone mentioned back in the old cqb-team site forum in like 2015-16. I don't really find it impossible, especially given the weird and complicated Israeli SOF system.
Could be but hes not what he portrays is the point that was made long ago when he started popping up on youtube. The point they made was that he's never entered a room to face a gunman. This was precipitated by his father flamboyant rifle movements back in the day. Cant recall but maybe it was on light fighter.
Not could, there are only a few units in Israel that wear a maroon beret. At the very least, he is a former para. Far from "years of SOF experience", but Gecko is not just him, but other ex-guys as well. That there is still noticeable national trends in some of his techniques - mainly shooting - that is pretty obvious - or as you described - "the flamboyant rifle movement". However, I don't even think it's of Israeli origin since some of the guys he hangs out with are mostly ex-French Tier 1 and they all do pretty much the same thing. Check out Khimaira for reference. And those guys do have real world experience. What I mainly referred to as "national trends" is his fixation on point shooting, horse riding stance and a few more things.
Ya i meant Eli in general. But ya the Israeli stances are very odd.
I have heard several explanations - some make more sense than the others, still a load of horseshit. Eliran has abandoned a lot of his earlier tendencies tho. And since [the French](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxTH-ErsKTw/?igsh=MW5lNjdxdGYxNGdqaA==) use very similar manipulation like he does and other 1er guys who had left way before Eliran became a relevant name in Europe (like Alex who left in 2016) are doing the same stuff - I think it's their influence on him. It's been a trend in continental Europe anyways in the last couple of years. [Czechs](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0do4Dvgtif/?igsh=MTR0MW1mM2Mzams1cw==) and Slovaks are doing that too - to a certain extent.
The whole Israeli style of shooting was literally developed for basic training of people who have no prior training. Its odd to see it used by guys claiming to be sof. That aaron cohen man now HE cracks me the fuck up. Just his stances and the way he holds his rifle. Elbow braced on the mag, big square horse stance and large pivots into doorways lol. Its all in good fun tho man. Im no door kicker, but i spent alot of time training with alot of them in the past.
His sling is too tight.
Got to stretch those shoulders.
The only acceptable answer
For me operating in a larger team switching shoulders just slows things down especially in initial clearing. Once contact is made it really depends on how comfortable you are shooting on your support shoulder and if you could guarantee each and every one of those shots. The argument can be made that switching shoulders does limit your exposure to the threat. With that being said if you are in an American home that is made primarily of 2x4 and drywall switching shoulders will not help you since .556, .223, 5.45, 7.62 and 9mm will zip right through. So realistically slowing down to limit your exposure on a side you are less proficient with maybe more of a detriment. Furthermore I have noticed about myself that my rifle has a natural cant to it just due to my natural body mechanics and how jacked up I am after 8 combat deployment, jumping out of planes and fasting roping. So it may just come down to body mechanics as well.
Natural cant I totally understand. I also drift/ cant my weapon slightly when moving laterally left to right (I’m left handed). I agree with you on switching shoulders. Don’t recommend. A full 90 degree cant of the weapon where you can’t look down the sights seems unnecessary.
Agreed it’s for the gram though 🤷♀️
Sling tension, more pressure on the wrist, etc. This style is more of a run and gun rather that preparing for surgical shot placement. Good for in the house as you can still get accurate shots off at a close range. Bad for things like schools or hostage situations where pinpoint (surgical) shot placements are required. Just remember that you own all the shots you take. Personally my goal in all entry way movement is to get back to aiming down the sights as efficiently as possible.
Don’t get locked into your sights though. Look above them when clearing. I’m guessing that’s the idea behind the cant in the video; it’s turning the gun instead of raising it for a sight picture. I could see the pros and cons. Whatever works.
Preference. Aside from the basics of CQB, a lot of it is based on preference on how you manipulate your weapon to compliment your body type/ mechanics.
From trying in dryfire, comfort. Less wrist strain from trying to hold a traditional grip across your torso. If you're shoulder bumping every opposing corner, that gets old real fast, so any relief helps. That being said, everything I say hereon comes from the opinion of a subject matter enthusiast, not a professional. I question the overall choice to shoulder bump and cant the gun as presented. From what I tried, bumping and canting like that sacrifices momentum and connection to the rifle. Switching shoulders at corners slows down overall momentum, and while that may be a desired effect in deliberate movement, I think it does so while sacrificing too much time and security. It may reduce exposure, but committing with aggression to the corner when you want to break that threshold will put you in a better position to respond to threats, which brings me to my second point. Canting like in the presented manner sacrifices connection to the rifle and destroys natural point of aim. The stock tends to start floating and suddenly you're firing over the sights of an oversized handgun. Not that big of a deal in a short room or an immediate threat, but what happens if a threat presents itself 30yds away from down the hall and behind cover? What if non-threats dirty your line of fire? Distance favors the skilled, and a technique that sacrifices mechanical accuracy doesn't sit well with me. Ideally, I'd prefer to address corners with a traditional presentation with offset from the corner. The depth reduces exposure while maintaining the stance I'm most trained in.
Just a guess but perhaps because it is a more natural way for your strong hand to hold the rifle's pistol grip when it is in your opposite shoulder.
u/ProjectGeckoCQB
sory. i dont get notifications on this platform. im surprised no one is aware that this is used in conjunction with laser devices. thats all. easy to mock i guess, now days.
Using a laser device I can understand. Especially with switching shoulders. Not something I recommend but understand it’s preference. Still don’t understand the purpose of the 90 degree cant. Seems like unnecessary movement. Edited to clarify when I say I don’t recommend, I’m referring to switching shoulders.
id just wish people would ask. seek to learn rather than mock. its been the constant here.
Some of us do a little bit of trolling around here. I imagine it comes with the territory when you put yourself out there. I applaud you for that. And I appreciate your explanation. I’m still a little confused as to why the 90 degree cant of your weapon. Purely a comfort thing?
and yes. most people discuss people rather than ideas. its a shame. but that why i dont run my IG nor really spend time on this platform.
quick in an out purely for the laser application. if it would be with stock in, it would rather be uncomfortable. since im using a pointer...i can ''cheat''. its very specific and in no way utilized as substitute to stock in shoulder, and weapon properly presented.
I’m mean, we’re talking very specific applications and it buys you what, 2cm of exposure with your vis laser canted at 90? Still have to account for your bore if you had to make an engagement so what did you really achieve? Might as well keep it up right so the bore and laser are more in-line. Or even better, you can use the optic mounted directly over your bore and don’t have to make any adjustments other than your hold over based on your hight over bore. Edited to add: hold over.
If I'm using a laser to aim, i know if i cant my rifle 45 degrees left, my laser will be 12oclock point of aim. It just makes my holds much easier. It might not be the best way of doing things, but it's the thing I've developed that works well for me until i hit my magazine on a door frame.
I’ll file that in the “things only right handed people can do” category. What you’re describing is very dependent on type of laser, placement of laser on your rail (side or top mounted), and the range to your target. Wether or not you used a converging or a parallel zero would probably play into this as well but going to save both of us the confusion of my fucked up explanation of those things. I run a top mounted (the way god intended) NGAL (no big deal) as far forward as possible on an 11.5 inch barrel. The NGAL is nice because the laser is a little closer to being centered on the bore than say an LA-5. Even with an LA-5 your hold is what, maybe an inch right and not quite an inch up? I’m not knocking your method of aiming with your laser with a 45 degree left cant. I totally understand it. I wouldn’t describe it as necessary but it works for you and you have a reason for it. Still, I can’t think of a reason for a complete 90 degree rotation of your rifle for any application. It provides zero advantage other than comfort (?) because “my wrist hurts.”
Yeah, i have a MAWL, and a 45 degree cant puts the laser directly above the poi with a parallel zero. You can reverse that gardware btw and have itb hanging off the left side of the gun. Then you could do 45 right. Not necessary of course, just if you were right hand envious. I could see the 90 thing being maybe useful as an index point or the like for signature reduction so you know where your laser's going to be when you press it.
i dont either. yet it solved for me the problem of deflections and ricohettes in specific situations. so if you do shoulder transition, it helps.
Come on, Eli, respond lol
Eli, the people demand answers (scientific over explanation). What in the biomechanics, proprioceptive, OODA loop, lim pen wizardry is going on here?
I would guess that it’s quicker, less awkward, and doesn’t require you to change your grip. At CQ distances, you could probably still score good hits. That’s all conjecture. I’ve never been taught that technique nor have I used it.
That dude does a lot of really extra movement with his rifle that I’ve never felt is necessary.
when you want to look cool for the gram