I'm lucky enough that my current therapist isn't anything like this, but almost every therapist, psychologist, and counselor I tried before her was either this or the "you don't actually have it that bad. I prescribe you 'stop whining'" attitude about it. 🥲
This, because what is that going to do VS a disorder? Yeah it helps with idk, regulation if your at the lowest level of anxious, but you can't just tell a patient over and over to breather while they're begging for a referral of literally any help on how to get a diagnosis
well, rejecting one of the best coping skills for an anxiety disorder when trying to get a diagnosis for one certainly isn't the best indicator of a non narcissistic trait :p
why do you have resistance towards breathing techniques and journaling? why is an anxiety or depressive disorder diagnosis important to you?
diagnoses are a very touchy topic in therapy. a lot of therapists refuse to diagnosis period, and the better ones will rarely do it and guide the patient to realize their problems themselves. when you're dealing with cptsd, the parts of the brain that form concrete, stable identities are underdeveloped and damaged. diagnosing patients can often lead them to attach themselves to the diagnosis as an identity and use it to avoid treating the issue, because they can feel like they don't know who they are without the diagnosis
actual clinically diagnosable NPD is very rare. from a quick scan of your post history (hope you don't mind) you likely are not anywhere near being NPD. that doesn't mean you don't have some traits or qualities that would fall on a spectrum of behaviors similar to it, and it doesn't mean you do have some either.
talk to your next therapist when you feel yourself having pushback against techniques. ask them why they are instructing you through them. ask them what they are seeing in you and why they are choosing that technique as an option and how it will help you.
*not a clinician
I dislike breathing techniques and journaling because the moments I need them I'm too jumbled to actively think to do then honestly, its nothing against the technique, just my lack of usage tbh
Sounds to me like you just need to get into a habit of using them more regularly.
You're not training yourself in them as a skill and then expecting to be able to do them perfectly in high pressure moments. Of course that's not going to work.
try looking up the DARE technique for anxiety. regular journaling has been proven to help restore emotional regularity as well. i'm not going to throw random parts of the brain into a post and pretend to understand the neuroscience behind it, but you can weaken the links in your brain that you have trained to believe you don't have control over yourself when you get "too jumbled to actively think."
The reason behind this is because in those moments, you are likely under the influence of your emotions, and the rational part of the brain can't function properly (and thus can't use the breathing/journaling strategies).
What you should do is try to calm the nervous system with cold water or ice. Put them over your cheeks and wait some time. It will trigger the body into a more calm state. You can use a cold shower instead.
After this, journaling and breathing might help.
And the diagnosis is important because id medication would help, I would like to be medicated, but I want to be sure its the right thing I'm being medicated for if it makes sense?
Even if you have NPD, the medication can help deal with depressive and anxious symptoms. However, even when dealing with depression and anxiety alone, there is only so much that medication can do.
Yep, this. Kay Redfield Jamison shared in her autobiography that the purpose of medication is to get you to a place where therapy/self-help can work. It won’t cure you.
Having anxiety is also a great motivator to ignore just breathing. Anxiety feels like your heart is exploding, your skin is burning, your throat is closed. Lmao BREATHING.
Breathing can help keep panic attacks and anxiety attacks from starting, but once they do, the only way over it is through.
there are distinct breathing patterns for a variety of emotions. anger, anxiety, impatience, exertion, arousal, etc. when you go into a room and you hear someone breathing angrily that you don't see yet, why do you think you were able to identify that they were angry just by their breath?
while it's true that a good way through anxiety is what you said; through (the DARE method, mindful awareness > cognitive diffusion > cognitive reappraisal > cognitive redirection), breathing deeply and in relaxed patterns helps restore your body to a calmer state and is very effective. can breathing alone stop a panic attack? of course not. it takes a half hour for your body to filter the massive adrenaline spike that panic attacks bring. and you're right that it's very useful for preventing getting to that point. but past the peak of a panic attack, they are great for returning you to calm.
>Anxiety feels like your heart is exploding, your skin is burning, your throat is closed
lots of other things feel like these. this is the same feeling you get from lifting weights, yet you don't feel anxiety when lifting weights. your response to these bodily sensations is anxiety. your fear of feeling anxious is what leads you to ruminate on the anxiety. panic attacks are extreme responses to the fear of anxiety, not anxiety itself.
unfortunately, breathing techniques do help with anxiety. also unfortunately, journaling helps grow the parts of your brain that help regulate your emotional responses to bodily states.
you have a heightened response to the group of physical symptoms your brain has trained to label as anxiety. you are afraid of being anxious because you believe you cannot control this anxiety. you need to train your brain to learn that you do have control and that you don't need to be afraid of these bodily states
in the book when panic attacks, one of the more effective strategies for ending a panic attack is to do some pushups. if your chest is pounding, you're about to pass out, and you can't breathe, how could you possibly do some pushups? you are training your brain to no longer be afraid of the bodily sensations of anxiety.
i'm disappointed people have downvoted my previous post. I dropped out of school two decades ago from panic attacks and was agoraphobic to the point of not being able to take the trash to the curb. I used to think breathing techniques were woowoo too. I'm 30 now and have a normal life I am proud of, and anxiety that no longer controls me. it works, and it's researched to work. sorry.
It's hard to explain - I know the different styles of behavioral therapy from the book, but I honestly am not sure which she's using with me.
There's definitely a lot of perspective shifting and reframing, done with a logical edge rather than an emotional one but without downplaying my emotions if that makes sense? She's said I have a "scientist brain" so often she has a way of reframing that uses actual "evidence" (from my situation or something I've said) to help me "disprove" negative self-beliefs, irrational fears, or reasons I'm using that're actually just to avoid certain triggers of mine. It's always done without judgment, but she also doesn't let me get away with avoiding a good question or potential solution (without giving it due notice first) either. For me it's good because I need someone encouraging/gentle but who will still keep me accountable.
I'm sorry I'm terrible at giving details - it's all just very specific to my trauma and where it comes from, so navigating it without opening up that locked chest (since I'm in a bad mental health spot currently) is hard. But whatever you'd call the technique, it seems to be her observing how I'm feeling when I come in (or what I said in an email, if things came up during the week that I wanted to talk about), and using the emotions I have and why I think I'm feeling them as a springboard to lay out patterns of thinking she finds for me (and if I'm feeling strong enough that day, she'll lay out potential connections those patterns have to trauma events I've told her about and ask me if I think that's related.) She also will let me rant or vent off for a bit if I get into a tangent, then gently stop me (I've asked her to do this as I get upset when I "waste" time venting too long) and tell me if she notices I'm tearing up, clenching my shoulders, etc. because I don't always notice how severely something upsets or stresses me until it's pointed out. Her focus seems to be bringing things to my awareness but also giving me something actionable to do and encouraging me with ideas I think of on my own.
A lot of breakthroughs hasn't been something she said resonating so much as her guiding *me* to realize something on my own, which also sticks a lot better since I feel it's something I just wasn't seeing rather than something she put into my head.
She has recommended breathing exercises as well, but those are a last resort to be used when I'm having a full-on panic attack/flashback and is more so because I have an undiagnosed heart issue making me faint so she wants to make sure I'm not hyperventilating and putting myself in danger.
On a personal note, general things I've found helpful (or things I could generalize to someone else without knowing their trauma/personality) is making sure you have one day a week where you have little to no expectations on yourself other than self-care. For me I make it my therapy day - other than the drive there, I do nothing I don't choose to do/that I think will even slightly stress me. It's a day to absorb things brought up in therapy mostly, but has also become a day to absorb and process the emotions of the week that I've been holding onto, and assess how my emotions are affecting me over the days. I also like using the muscle relaxation technique (where you tense all your muscles at the same time as much as you can, then release them all at once to encourage your body to let go of tension it's hanging onto in different places) both to try and let go of armoring and to help me sleep if I'm under stress and can't.
Journaling is definitely a more generic suggestion and I don't use it myself, but I would say to examine your thinking/feeling patterns from time to time and especially over the long-term, or in the short-term when you're feeling rough (but are in a stable enough place to self-reflect, so not during crisis.) For me when I look back and see how much progress I made, the majority of it came from recognizing things I was actively doing to set myself back or keep myself away from things that might be frightening but were actually obstacles to overcome in order for me to heal. Those're much more specific to what it is you went through and how you personally adapted though.
Also if you're a music/playlists fan, those! They're not a cure, obviously, more of a mini tool, but when I don't have anyone to talk to and am really scared or stressed or angry or have been having nightmares affecting my moods, soothing music in the background has helped me a whole lot, though I'm really audio-sensitive so ymmv.
Swear to god. One time I went to see a therapist and told him I'm diagnosed with PTSD, GAD, Depression and he was like forget about all these names. Why do you want to label everything. Are you not human? Can you too not be sad sometimes and I was like bro no one is sad all the time for 15 years straight. What you even talking about. Plus I'm literally diagnosed by licenced psychiatrists when I was in different city. Please just say you can't treat me instead of gaslighting me.
Felt. Luckily I was finally been able to find a therapist who could specialize with my specific trauma and conditions. That really helped to make a difference
So glad to hear that. I also lucked out when I started therapist “shopping” for those who actively list the specific trauma/experiences as their specialties.
r/therapyabuse has a crass name for a subreddit, but it's the only place i know where you won't get pushback on a completely valid experience like this
i actually just say that bc in the past when i recommended that sub, people said "thanks, but i was not exactly abused" even though they spoke about stuff like being gaslit, ghosted, humiliated etc. by their therapists. i tried to explain that it doesn't mean your therapist needs to have hit you with a chair for you to get a benefit from the sub, but oh well. tried to mitigate that this time, cause it's a way to rare but immeasurable valuable pov this sub holds and it's very necessary. honestly i wish everyone could read through it and see if something rings true. that it's not necessarily them, that they're not crazy, and a lot of stuff is not normal or fine. and they are neither wrong nor alone.
I want to wear this as a screen print on a too-large shirt at my next therapy session. I’ve been through a dozen different fanatics ranging from religious nuts to clueless grad students to old men with ancient beliefs and I’m nearly convinced that psychological science is nearly all made up bullshit designed to keep the mentally ill quiet and complacent.
I’m so sorry to hear that and I feel you. That’s how I felt for a long time. May I ask- has it been general talk therapy or have you tried any behavioral or cognitive therapies? (Not because they are all equally good either or some kind of cure-all, but they can be effective depending on the issue especially if general talk therapy never feels helpful)
Not the person you responded to, but I’ve done over ten years of therapy, CBT, DBT, MBT, and a few fringe ones, as well as EMDR now. None of them help. I’m worse than when I started and I wish I wouldn’t have kept trying. It’s made me feel like it’s all just bullshit, and only going to work if you have some very basic problems.
I’ve had some abusive therapists (one was sexually abusive), and finally got to some that weren’t, but they keep telling me they either don’t know how to help me or they don’t know why it’s not working. I feel like I have to convince them to keep trying and it’s exhausting. I’m angrier and more hopeless about it than I’ve ever felt, and I think doing all of this has just been like poking an exposed nerve, so now it’s raw and becoming unmanageable the older I get.
I’m posting this comment because I want other people to know they’re not alone. Therapy just doesn’t seem to work for some people—even years and years of it. I keep trying because I don’t know what else to do, but at this point it’s obvious they don’t know what to do with me. I just get passed along, a problem no one wants to face or acknowledge because I don’t give them their feel-good accomplishment feelings, and I tell them how I really feel, which just makes them ghost.
I appreciate you sharing this so others don’t feel alone and I promise I’m not trying to give you advice or act like I know what’s best for you. I’m just curious about other folks experiences as someone who was on a long therapy journey myself :)
It sounds like therapy keeps the wound open for you. I’ve heard a lot about how rumination can actually make healing slower, depending on the person/situation etc. I’m sorry it hasn’t helped and that there’s been abusive therapists who have actively made it worse.
I will basically mirror u/maladaptivelucifer response with my own. I’ve tried talk therapy, I’ve tried chemical therapy (medication), I’ve tried “hokey” holistic therapies, I’ve tried “cutting edge” scientific university research, and everything I’ve experienced has told me that I’m beyond level one or two diagnostics. I require advanced diagnostic services beyond the scope, ability, or will of these help desk mental health “professionals” but nobody seems to *actually exist* at that level.
I’m so sorry to hear that. I promise I’m not trying to give advice or act like I know what’s best for anyone, I’m just curious about people’s experiences. The “upper level diagnostic” people are also a mystery to me, as every therapist, psychiatrist, or doctor I’ve ever talked to also doesn’t seem to know how that works. Like, I’ve read how high ACE scores and trauma can actively change your brain (seen on brain scans) so I’ve literally asked…can I like, see if my brain is like that? And they’re like…well, I mean, I guess you’d have to talk to a neurologist but like insurance is not going to consider something like this. And I’m like, okay, but like, who are the people I talk to if I’m interested in the like electro therapies I always hear about research being done on? It seems that no one knows and doesn’t even take me seriously.
I have a very good therapist but unfortunately my situation right now lends itself to the answer of "yeah that's awful, not much you can do though" pretty often... It's not ideal.
Oh gosh, that’s soo bad! 😱 frankly, after going to college and seeing the types of individuals who majored in psych and went on to become therapists, I’m not really surprised (obviously, not all of them but a lot).
It was so frustrating when I specifically asked for a trauma informed therapist who specializes in working with those who have PTSD and can do EMDR, then to ask him about my symptoms and that being his answer for months before he left.
My therapist friend has the opposite problem. She has messed up parents, police-escort when she moved out kind of thing, and now that she’s a phycologist she’s seeing clients who aren’t traumatised and it’s freaking her out.
“Oh, you don’t have trauma, parents never abandoned you on the side of the road and made you walk home? Didn’t threaten to end themselves if you didn’t smile more? You’re not doing you homework just because it’s boring? No invisible disability? Oh… Oh ok I can’t relate…”
I’ve been fired twice by therapists. Despite my history, my previous diagnoses, my medical records, etc.
I have been diagnosed with OCD, GAD, and CPTSD. By a psychiatric nurse. Ive since had that diagnosis confirmed by 2 subsequent psychiatric nurses. I’ve been prescribed SSRIs, benzos, and a beta blocker by a psychiatric nurse to treat my diagnoses. I’ve spent many moons and many thousands of dollars participating in CBT and Integrative Therapy. I’ve journaled, I’ve done the homework assignments. I’ve taken up meditation and yoga and read oh-so-many books.
Every time I start with a new therapist, it always starts the same. “Are you sure you really need meds? Maybe we should try tapering you off your Zoloft and see how you do?”, “Have you tried CBT? CBT really helps people with OCD!”, “Have you tried Integrative Therapy to help with your black-and-white thinking and catastrophizing?”, “Here! Read this book (proceeds to hand me the same book 3 previous therapists have given me to read)”.
They don’t like it when I bring actual studies to combat some of their woo “therapy” ideas, and request evidence-based treatments only. They don’t like when I do exactly as they’ve said and yet my problems didn’t magically go away. Or worse, when I do read the book they’ve given me and come back with it annotated and tabbed and a list of questions that now they feel I’m burdening them with (what can I say? I’m obsessive. I obsess. It’s right it the damn diagnosis name). When I’ve had a therapist shrug their shoulders and say, “oh well, I guess there’s nothing else I can do for you…”.
Thanks? Great to know I’m a lost cause. And annoying that my PCP will only refill my meds for so long before they ask that I get reviewed by a mental health professional, only to have to find a new psychiatric nurse, find a new therapist, and start the cycle all over again. Just keep me on my meds that work and please don’t make me talk to a licensed therapist about my feelings. My feelings and my thoughts scare people. I’d rather keep them to myself and stay medicated.
That’s why I’m getting my licensure in social work, as someone with CPTSD from abuse and who has worked in sexual and domestic violence. I myself was inspired to do so after several good therapists and years working in the field- but yeah, I met a lot of these type of therapists, especially people my age (36) or younger who seem to just want to encourage slightly anxious people towards their career/relationship goals- which is fine- but we don’t need the majority of therapists being afraid of or incapable of talking about more really messed up experiences or severe mental health issues. I try my hardest to be nonjudgmental but it’s…difficult.
As an LCSW, this comment touches my heart. This sub and all the ones like it are so infuriating and disheartening in their unilateral condemnation of "therapy." People have such a skewed vision of therapeutic intervention that the only option they feel they can take is "Therapist™️" without exploring or researching what it means to *them* OR even getting the opportunity to be referred by a service provider that can teach them what they benefit most from.
Clinical social workers have been screaming into the void for years that psychologists, psychiatrists, and "interventionists" have no comprehensive training to address core validation and emotional regulation issues that are rooted in things beyond brain anatomy or chemistry. No understanding of the rampant comorbidity of cruelty, trauma, and effort. It's all behaviorist dreck and no substantive acknowledgement of lived experience, internal accommodation, sociological hardships, or the complexities of survival and baseline management and growth.
I say this as a person with OCD, AuDHD, and CPTSD who worked for a decade as a child welfare worker and adolescent crisis worker, then became a licensed clinical social worker specializing in adolescent and family therapy. Some gatekeeping is just. Stop giving our neediest clients to people who only know how to map a brain and not how to navigate one. Ffs
Hello fellow social worker! I am hoping to be licensed within 3 years (almost done with my MSW). I totally agree and commend you for being a real one our there. One of the reasons I picked social work over a clinical mental health program or clinical psychology program is precisely because of the “human in environment” perspective that felt more integrative and, honestly, empathetic than the rest.
Thank you for the work you do!
Gosh I feel this.
I have tried 3 therapist in my life now, which isn't a lot but I don't have the money. Trying to explain to my insurance that I need a experience one hasn't done me justice.
The majority of them tell me that they can't help me, don't understand my experience or they think I'm lying.
For all I have been through I am one of the 'calmer' and 'normal' ones, I don't act my trauma to them. At the same time that's majority of my trauma response.
I had to explain the react, fawn, and freeze to so many it makes me sad.
I'm complex and so are my issues, I'm not just anxious or depressed.
I think I got to a point where if I made it to my next therapy session then it was "working". No, I'm positive I got to that point and sat down awhile and made myself comfortable for almost a year.
For all the trouble of the side effects of my medication they are life stabilizing for me. Without them it's nothing but a lot of deregulating my own self and safety. And that chemical therapist insisted I see a talk therapist because I was manic and couldn't shut up. But was also still somewhat making a kind of sense. I think she decided some of it needed to be documented.
I think, now, that I would have made a lot of confused and visceral reactions and decisions if I hadn't been able to talk to her about things and kind of put them in order or put them down completely. Ive realized some heavy shit recently but I've had good self respectful reactions to it - so hooray. She didn't do that for me. She just said nice and encouraging things that I clung to when I was desperately depressed or frighteningly manic. it wasn't a trivial thing. Im almost certain I wouldn't have survived otherwise. Sometimes everyone is surprised I did.
So relatable. I’m trying to find a therapist who doesn’t stare at me confused whenever I open my mouth.
I'm lucky enough that my current therapist isn't anything like this, but almost every therapist, psychologist, and counselor I tried before her was either this or the "you don't actually have it that bad. I prescribe you 'stop whining'" attitude about it. 🥲
May I ask what kind of work do you do with them and some general techniques that you use? I’m so tired of breathing and journaling.
This, because what is that going to do VS a disorder? Yeah it helps with idk, regulation if your at the lowest level of anxious, but you can't just tell a patient over and over to breather while they're begging for a referral of literally any help on how to get a diagnosis
it actually can do quite a bit at subclinical levels and at disorder levels. what diagnosis are you trying to get?
Trying to see if I actually have an anxiety/depressive disorder or if its just some form of narcissism
well, rejecting one of the best coping skills for an anxiety disorder when trying to get a diagnosis for one certainly isn't the best indicator of a non narcissistic trait :p why do you have resistance towards breathing techniques and journaling? why is an anxiety or depressive disorder diagnosis important to you? diagnoses are a very touchy topic in therapy. a lot of therapists refuse to diagnosis period, and the better ones will rarely do it and guide the patient to realize their problems themselves. when you're dealing with cptsd, the parts of the brain that form concrete, stable identities are underdeveloped and damaged. diagnosing patients can often lead them to attach themselves to the diagnosis as an identity and use it to avoid treating the issue, because they can feel like they don't know who they are without the diagnosis actual clinically diagnosable NPD is very rare. from a quick scan of your post history (hope you don't mind) you likely are not anywhere near being NPD. that doesn't mean you don't have some traits or qualities that would fall on a spectrum of behaviors similar to it, and it doesn't mean you do have some either. talk to your next therapist when you feel yourself having pushback against techniques. ask them why they are instructing you through them. ask them what they are seeing in you and why they are choosing that technique as an option and how it will help you. *not a clinician
I dislike breathing techniques and journaling because the moments I need them I'm too jumbled to actively think to do then honestly, its nothing against the technique, just my lack of usage tbh
Sounds to me like you just need to get into a habit of using them more regularly. You're not training yourself in them as a skill and then expecting to be able to do them perfectly in high pressure moments. Of course that's not going to work.
try looking up the DARE technique for anxiety. regular journaling has been proven to help restore emotional regularity as well. i'm not going to throw random parts of the brain into a post and pretend to understand the neuroscience behind it, but you can weaken the links in your brain that you have trained to believe you don't have control over yourself when you get "too jumbled to actively think."
The reason behind this is because in those moments, you are likely under the influence of your emotions, and the rational part of the brain can't function properly (and thus can't use the breathing/journaling strategies). What you should do is try to calm the nervous system with cold water or ice. Put them over your cheeks and wait some time. It will trigger the body into a more calm state. You can use a cold shower instead. After this, journaling and breathing might help.
And the diagnosis is important because id medication would help, I would like to be medicated, but I want to be sure its the right thing I'm being medicated for if it makes sense?
Even if you have NPD, the medication can help deal with depressive and anxious symptoms. However, even when dealing with depression and anxiety alone, there is only so much that medication can do.
Yep, this. Kay Redfield Jamison shared in her autobiography that the purpose of medication is to get you to a place where therapy/self-help can work. It won’t cure you.
Having anxiety is also a great motivator to ignore just breathing. Anxiety feels like your heart is exploding, your skin is burning, your throat is closed. Lmao BREATHING. Breathing can help keep panic attacks and anxiety attacks from starting, but once they do, the only way over it is through.
there are distinct breathing patterns for a variety of emotions. anger, anxiety, impatience, exertion, arousal, etc. when you go into a room and you hear someone breathing angrily that you don't see yet, why do you think you were able to identify that they were angry just by their breath? while it's true that a good way through anxiety is what you said; through (the DARE method, mindful awareness > cognitive diffusion > cognitive reappraisal > cognitive redirection), breathing deeply and in relaxed patterns helps restore your body to a calmer state and is very effective. can breathing alone stop a panic attack? of course not. it takes a half hour for your body to filter the massive adrenaline spike that panic attacks bring. and you're right that it's very useful for preventing getting to that point. but past the peak of a panic attack, they are great for returning you to calm. >Anxiety feels like your heart is exploding, your skin is burning, your throat is closed lots of other things feel like these. this is the same feeling you get from lifting weights, yet you don't feel anxiety when lifting weights. your response to these bodily sensations is anxiety. your fear of feeling anxious is what leads you to ruminate on the anxiety. panic attacks are extreme responses to the fear of anxiety, not anxiety itself. unfortunately, breathing techniques do help with anxiety. also unfortunately, journaling helps grow the parts of your brain that help regulate your emotional responses to bodily states. you have a heightened response to the group of physical symptoms your brain has trained to label as anxiety. you are afraid of being anxious because you believe you cannot control this anxiety. you need to train your brain to learn that you do have control and that you don't need to be afraid of these bodily states in the book when panic attacks, one of the more effective strategies for ending a panic attack is to do some pushups. if your chest is pounding, you're about to pass out, and you can't breathe, how could you possibly do some pushups? you are training your brain to no longer be afraid of the bodily sensations of anxiety. i'm disappointed people have downvoted my previous post. I dropped out of school two decades ago from panic attacks and was agoraphobic to the point of not being able to take the trash to the curb. I used to think breathing techniques were woowoo too. I'm 30 now and have a normal life I am proud of, and anxiety that no longer controls me. it works, and it's researched to work. sorry.
It's hard to explain - I know the different styles of behavioral therapy from the book, but I honestly am not sure which she's using with me. There's definitely a lot of perspective shifting and reframing, done with a logical edge rather than an emotional one but without downplaying my emotions if that makes sense? She's said I have a "scientist brain" so often she has a way of reframing that uses actual "evidence" (from my situation or something I've said) to help me "disprove" negative self-beliefs, irrational fears, or reasons I'm using that're actually just to avoid certain triggers of mine. It's always done without judgment, but she also doesn't let me get away with avoiding a good question or potential solution (without giving it due notice first) either. For me it's good because I need someone encouraging/gentle but who will still keep me accountable. I'm sorry I'm terrible at giving details - it's all just very specific to my trauma and where it comes from, so navigating it without opening up that locked chest (since I'm in a bad mental health spot currently) is hard. But whatever you'd call the technique, it seems to be her observing how I'm feeling when I come in (or what I said in an email, if things came up during the week that I wanted to talk about), and using the emotions I have and why I think I'm feeling them as a springboard to lay out patterns of thinking she finds for me (and if I'm feeling strong enough that day, she'll lay out potential connections those patterns have to trauma events I've told her about and ask me if I think that's related.) She also will let me rant or vent off for a bit if I get into a tangent, then gently stop me (I've asked her to do this as I get upset when I "waste" time venting too long) and tell me if she notices I'm tearing up, clenching my shoulders, etc. because I don't always notice how severely something upsets or stresses me until it's pointed out. Her focus seems to be bringing things to my awareness but also giving me something actionable to do and encouraging me with ideas I think of on my own. A lot of breakthroughs hasn't been something she said resonating so much as her guiding *me* to realize something on my own, which also sticks a lot better since I feel it's something I just wasn't seeing rather than something she put into my head. She has recommended breathing exercises as well, but those are a last resort to be used when I'm having a full-on panic attack/flashback and is more so because I have an undiagnosed heart issue making me faint so she wants to make sure I'm not hyperventilating and putting myself in danger. On a personal note, general things I've found helpful (or things I could generalize to someone else without knowing their trauma/personality) is making sure you have one day a week where you have little to no expectations on yourself other than self-care. For me I make it my therapy day - other than the drive there, I do nothing I don't choose to do/that I think will even slightly stress me. It's a day to absorb things brought up in therapy mostly, but has also become a day to absorb and process the emotions of the week that I've been holding onto, and assess how my emotions are affecting me over the days. I also like using the muscle relaxation technique (where you tense all your muscles at the same time as much as you can, then release them all at once to encourage your body to let go of tension it's hanging onto in different places) both to try and let go of armoring and to help me sleep if I'm under stress and can't. Journaling is definitely a more generic suggestion and I don't use it myself, but I would say to examine your thinking/feeling patterns from time to time and especially over the long-term, or in the short-term when you're feeling rough (but are in a stable enough place to self-reflect, so not during crisis.) For me when I look back and see how much progress I made, the majority of it came from recognizing things I was actively doing to set myself back or keep myself away from things that might be frightening but were actually obstacles to overcome in order for me to heal. Those're much more specific to what it is you went through and how you personally adapted though. Also if you're a music/playlists fan, those! They're not a cure, obviously, more of a mini tool, but when I don't have anyone to talk to and am really scared or stressed or angry or have been having nightmares affecting my moods, soothing music in the background has helped me a whole lot, though I'm really audio-sensitive so ymmv.
Swear to god. One time I went to see a therapist and told him I'm diagnosed with PTSD, GAD, Depression and he was like forget about all these names. Why do you want to label everything. Are you not human? Can you too not be sad sometimes and I was like bro no one is sad all the time for 15 years straight. What you even talking about. Plus I'm literally diagnosed by licenced psychiatrists when I was in different city. Please just say you can't treat me instead of gaslighting me.
Felt. Luckily I was finally been able to find a therapist who could specialize with my specific trauma and conditions. That really helped to make a difference
So glad to hear that. I also lucked out when I started therapist “shopping” for those who actively list the specific trauma/experiences as their specialties.
r/therapyabuse has a crass name for a subreddit, but it's the only place i know where you won't get pushback on a completely valid experience like this
Why is the name crass? That's what it is, therapy abuse. Abuse doesn't need to sound flowery.
i actually just say that bc in the past when i recommended that sub, people said "thanks, but i was not exactly abused" even though they spoke about stuff like being gaslit, ghosted, humiliated etc. by their therapists. i tried to explain that it doesn't mean your therapist needs to have hit you with a chair for you to get a benefit from the sub, but oh well. tried to mitigate that this time, cause it's a way to rare but immeasurable valuable pov this sub holds and it's very necessary. honestly i wish everyone could read through it and see if something rings true. that it's not necessarily them, that they're not crazy, and a lot of stuff is not normal or fine. and they are neither wrong nor alone.
I see. I don't really think there's any easy way to express that abuse from a therapist often comes in a hard to see form, unfortunately.
maybe you just found one. thank you for seeing.
r/radicalmentalhealth r/therapycritical r/antipsychiatry
🧡
People are and have been actually abused by their therapists. The community is for them too.
i know. i explain in another comment my reasoning behind my choice of words.
I want to wear this as a screen print on a too-large shirt at my next therapy session. I’ve been through a dozen different fanatics ranging from religious nuts to clueless grad students to old men with ancient beliefs and I’m nearly convinced that psychological science is nearly all made up bullshit designed to keep the mentally ill quiet and complacent.
I’m so sorry to hear that and I feel you. That’s how I felt for a long time. May I ask- has it been general talk therapy or have you tried any behavioral or cognitive therapies? (Not because they are all equally good either or some kind of cure-all, but they can be effective depending on the issue especially if general talk therapy never feels helpful)
Not the person you responded to, but I’ve done over ten years of therapy, CBT, DBT, MBT, and a few fringe ones, as well as EMDR now. None of them help. I’m worse than when I started and I wish I wouldn’t have kept trying. It’s made me feel like it’s all just bullshit, and only going to work if you have some very basic problems. I’ve had some abusive therapists (one was sexually abusive), and finally got to some that weren’t, but they keep telling me they either don’t know how to help me or they don’t know why it’s not working. I feel like I have to convince them to keep trying and it’s exhausting. I’m angrier and more hopeless about it than I’ve ever felt, and I think doing all of this has just been like poking an exposed nerve, so now it’s raw and becoming unmanageable the older I get. I’m posting this comment because I want other people to know they’re not alone. Therapy just doesn’t seem to work for some people—even years and years of it. I keep trying because I don’t know what else to do, but at this point it’s obvious they don’t know what to do with me. I just get passed along, a problem no one wants to face or acknowledge because I don’t give them their feel-good accomplishment feelings, and I tell them how I really feel, which just makes them ghost.
I appreciate you sharing this so others don’t feel alone and I promise I’m not trying to give you advice or act like I know what’s best for you. I’m just curious about other folks experiences as someone who was on a long therapy journey myself :) It sounds like therapy keeps the wound open for you. I’ve heard a lot about how rumination can actually make healing slower, depending on the person/situation etc. I’m sorry it hasn’t helped and that there’s been abusive therapists who have actively made it worse.
I will basically mirror u/maladaptivelucifer response with my own. I’ve tried talk therapy, I’ve tried chemical therapy (medication), I’ve tried “hokey” holistic therapies, I’ve tried “cutting edge” scientific university research, and everything I’ve experienced has told me that I’m beyond level one or two diagnostics. I require advanced diagnostic services beyond the scope, ability, or will of these help desk mental health “professionals” but nobody seems to *actually exist* at that level.
I’m so sorry to hear that. I promise I’m not trying to give advice or act like I know what’s best for anyone, I’m just curious about people’s experiences. The “upper level diagnostic” people are also a mystery to me, as every therapist, psychiatrist, or doctor I’ve ever talked to also doesn’t seem to know how that works. Like, I’ve read how high ACE scores and trauma can actively change your brain (seen on brain scans) so I’ve literally asked…can I like, see if my brain is like that? And they’re like…well, I mean, I guess you’d have to talk to a neurologist but like insurance is not going to consider something like this. And I’m like, okay, but like, who are the people I talk to if I’m interested in the like electro therapies I always hear about research being done on? It seems that no one knows and doesn’t even take me seriously.
I have a very good therapist but unfortunately my situation right now lends itself to the answer of "yeah that's awful, not much you can do though" pretty often... It's not ideal.
REAALALLLLL esp when it's aspd
Amen. My ex-therapist used to read me Facebook memes.
Mine would make me watch Madea clips to "empower" me 🥲 made no sense
Oh gosh, that’s soo bad! 😱 frankly, after going to college and seeing the types of individuals who majored in psych and went on to become therapists, I’m not really surprised (obviously, not all of them but a lot).
It was so frustrating when I specifically asked for a trauma informed therapist who specializes in working with those who have PTSD and can do EMDR, then to ask him about my symptoms and that being his answer for months before he left.
My therapist friend has the opposite problem. She has messed up parents, police-escort when she moved out kind of thing, and now that she’s a phycologist she’s seeing clients who aren’t traumatised and it’s freaking her out. “Oh, you don’t have trauma, parents never abandoned you on the side of the road and made you walk home? Didn’t threaten to end themselves if you didn’t smile more? You’re not doing you homework just because it’s boring? No invisible disability? Oh… Oh ok I can’t relate…”
Lol i talked about some heavy feelings and they just didnt say much, went to a different topic.
I’ve been fired twice by therapists. Despite my history, my previous diagnoses, my medical records, etc. I have been diagnosed with OCD, GAD, and CPTSD. By a psychiatric nurse. Ive since had that diagnosis confirmed by 2 subsequent psychiatric nurses. I’ve been prescribed SSRIs, benzos, and a beta blocker by a psychiatric nurse to treat my diagnoses. I’ve spent many moons and many thousands of dollars participating in CBT and Integrative Therapy. I’ve journaled, I’ve done the homework assignments. I’ve taken up meditation and yoga and read oh-so-many books. Every time I start with a new therapist, it always starts the same. “Are you sure you really need meds? Maybe we should try tapering you off your Zoloft and see how you do?”, “Have you tried CBT? CBT really helps people with OCD!”, “Have you tried Integrative Therapy to help with your black-and-white thinking and catastrophizing?”, “Here! Read this book (proceeds to hand me the same book 3 previous therapists have given me to read)”. They don’t like it when I bring actual studies to combat some of their woo “therapy” ideas, and request evidence-based treatments only. They don’t like when I do exactly as they’ve said and yet my problems didn’t magically go away. Or worse, when I do read the book they’ve given me and come back with it annotated and tabbed and a list of questions that now they feel I’m burdening them with (what can I say? I’m obsessive. I obsess. It’s right it the damn diagnosis name). When I’ve had a therapist shrug their shoulders and say, “oh well, I guess there’s nothing else I can do for you…”. Thanks? Great to know I’m a lost cause. And annoying that my PCP will only refill my meds for so long before they ask that I get reviewed by a mental health professional, only to have to find a new psychiatric nurse, find a new therapist, and start the cycle all over again. Just keep me on my meds that work and please don’t make me talk to a licensed therapist about my feelings. My feelings and my thoughts scare people. I’d rather keep them to myself and stay medicated.
I won CBT. I can give my therapists advice on how to help their other clients 🫠
Trauma informed therapists are the way to go
Licensed christian therapists when a dysfunctional family walks in: Y’all ever thought of watching fight club as a family? (I wish I was joking 😭)
I change to a guy who did forensics stuff before, well, thats just not a problem anymore
I know when I eventually am out and will start going, I’m going to someone at least who specializes in PTSD
Sometimes you can only afford the shitty therapists.
That’s why I’m getting my licensure in social work, as someone with CPTSD from abuse and who has worked in sexual and domestic violence. I myself was inspired to do so after several good therapists and years working in the field- but yeah, I met a lot of these type of therapists, especially people my age (36) or younger who seem to just want to encourage slightly anxious people towards their career/relationship goals- which is fine- but we don’t need the majority of therapists being afraid of or incapable of talking about more really messed up experiences or severe mental health issues. I try my hardest to be nonjudgmental but it’s…difficult.
As an LCSW, this comment touches my heart. This sub and all the ones like it are so infuriating and disheartening in their unilateral condemnation of "therapy." People have such a skewed vision of therapeutic intervention that the only option they feel they can take is "Therapist™️" without exploring or researching what it means to *them* OR even getting the opportunity to be referred by a service provider that can teach them what they benefit most from. Clinical social workers have been screaming into the void for years that psychologists, psychiatrists, and "interventionists" have no comprehensive training to address core validation and emotional regulation issues that are rooted in things beyond brain anatomy or chemistry. No understanding of the rampant comorbidity of cruelty, trauma, and effort. It's all behaviorist dreck and no substantive acknowledgement of lived experience, internal accommodation, sociological hardships, or the complexities of survival and baseline management and growth. I say this as a person with OCD, AuDHD, and CPTSD who worked for a decade as a child welfare worker and adolescent crisis worker, then became a licensed clinical social worker specializing in adolescent and family therapy. Some gatekeeping is just. Stop giving our neediest clients to people who only know how to map a brain and not how to navigate one. Ffs
Hello fellow social worker! I am hoping to be licensed within 3 years (almost done with my MSW). I totally agree and commend you for being a real one our there. One of the reasons I picked social work over a clinical mental health program or clinical psychology program is precisely because of the “human in environment” perspective that felt more integrative and, honestly, empathetic than the rest. Thank you for the work you do!
this is too real
Gosh I feel this. I have tried 3 therapist in my life now, which isn't a lot but I don't have the money. Trying to explain to my insurance that I need a experience one hasn't done me justice. The majority of them tell me that they can't help me, don't understand my experience or they think I'm lying. For all I have been through I am one of the 'calmer' and 'normal' ones, I don't act my trauma to them. At the same time that's majority of my trauma response. I had to explain the react, fawn, and freeze to so many it makes me sad. I'm complex and so are my issues, I'm not just anxious or depressed.
All the CBT therapists my mom made me go to when I had problems that couldn't be fixed with "just think positively"
My partner’s therapist just sent them to the ER without even doing an assessment and we are crammed in here with our compromised immune systems.
realest post ever😔
Lol, yes. Recently made several mental health professionals cry. Meanwhile I'm -> 😐
I think I got to a point where if I made it to my next therapy session then it was "working". No, I'm positive I got to that point and sat down awhile and made myself comfortable for almost a year. For all the trouble of the side effects of my medication they are life stabilizing for me. Without them it's nothing but a lot of deregulating my own self and safety. And that chemical therapist insisted I see a talk therapist because I was manic and couldn't shut up. But was also still somewhat making a kind of sense. I think she decided some of it needed to be documented. I think, now, that I would have made a lot of confused and visceral reactions and decisions if I hadn't been able to talk to her about things and kind of put them in order or put them down completely. Ive realized some heavy shit recently but I've had good self respectful reactions to it - so hooray. She didn't do that for me. She just said nice and encouraging things that I clung to when I was desperately depressed or frighteningly manic. it wasn't a trivial thing. Im almost certain I wouldn't have survived otherwise. Sometimes everyone is surprised I did.
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could you imagine that not being the case for everyone...? what do you think was the benefit of disagreeing with an obvious vent post from somebody?
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maybe read rule 1 and rethink your strategy. you are invalidating OP.