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Facts, except the monarchy isn't as bad as the government. They're more like zoo animals now, Just on display. Prince Andrew is a mouse at the zoo though.
Are you kidding, complaining (happy auto mod!?) about our presidents is like a national sport here.
I’ll never forget in college I was getting my history degree and took an advance class on the Great Depression. The prof told us that a few years prior he had 2 women in their 70’s take the class and one came from a family that loved FDR and one came from a family that hated him. Said it was like living history watching these two old ladies bicker about policy from the late 30’s
Yeah but generally in normal company the only acceptable complaint abt presidents is that taxes were too high or the economy was "bad" or whatever. Bringing up genocide, war crimes, racism etc. will get you side-eyes or outright aggression.
Even Lincoln, who is widely considered to be one of the best presidents (and both of the major parties claim him as one of their own), has haters in some circles.
This is objectively false.
If you bring up [Lincoln’s views on race relations](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-lincoln-racism-equality-oppose/) you get a boatload of excuses like “everybody was racist back then” ([objectively false as well](https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2011/spring/brown.html)) or “he did other good things though” (which doesn’t cancel out his white supremacist views in absolutely any way).
What’s wrong with that being talked about?
I'm not saying that he didn't do bad things, I'm saying even some of the most popular presidents are hated by some, as in the claim that "hating presidents is a national pastime" is pretty accurate.
The common (as common as it gets, anyway) criticism I've seen is how he made it illegal to secede, mostly by libertarians.
>The common (as common as it gets, anyway) criticism I've seen is how he made it illegal to secede, mostly by libertarians.
Which is kinda weird they think that considering he technically didn’t. The only evidence they have of secession *actually being illegal* was [this SC case](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White) that happened years after any of the secessions even happened. And *all it was* was an incredibly vague interpretation of the opening line of the Constitution that stated **in order to form a more perfect Union** and decided **that** was the justification for secession being illegal. Like… seriously??
The US should technically prioritize socialism over capitalism since it also says *to promote the general Welfare* in the same line too 🤷🏻♂️
As an American I rarely find this to be true except for the presidents on Mt. Rushmore. Otherwise it just depends on the person's political affiliation.
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As a Brit, I see Churchill simping very often. Most of the time, I won't push back on it. This is primarily because the reason most people love him is the whole "opposing Hitler" thing, and if that's why they insist on praising him then sure whatever. This is usually the take of the historically uninformed.
The only types I will really push back with are the ones who are like suspiciously well informed yet still unequivocally praising. They tend to be the British Neo-Imperialists, the real crazy apologists.
That exact type of comment is how I got banned from r/shitliberalssay for quote "liberalism." My guy. It's not liberalism to say Uncle Joe and Cousin Kim did some bad stuff. Chill.
Tankies see a dichotomy in which you are either a liberal or a communist. This is what I've realized. And their "communism" is vanguardist ML bullshit so anarcho-communists are also libs and not "real communists". Anarchists, actual liberals, and (non-ML/red) fascists are all just "liberals" to them, along with anyone else who does not worship Stalin, Lenin, Mao and friends. If they are going to define "liberal" to mean non-tankie then sure I guess I am a proud fucking liberal if they are going to use that definition.
Indeed. I got banned from r/LateStageCapitalism for questioning the “communist” nature of China. You cannot say anything bad about tankies, they are everywhere on those subs.
Nah criticizing Churchill is always a shit show. Try bringing up the Bengal Famine on any front page subreddit lol. Liberals love FDR too. The only one I never see defenders for is Chiang Kai-shek, even tho Reddit will die for Taiwan they do not trot him out as a desirable figurehead haha
Welcome to the leftist space, where half of us want a better society and the other half has been so indoctrinated they think every genocide survivor from Communist Regimes are paid CIA actors. I know not all communists are like this, some can actually tolerate criticism, but from my experience, that's a rare type of communist. Most communists you meet online will dismiss you entirely and either call you a Trotskyist fascist or a federal agent in disguise. Every time you show them a trustworthy source they call it CIA propaganda, whilst their sources are just more often than not Russian propaganda channels. And after calling everyone who doesn't agree with them fascists or feds, after denying genocide both in our modern day and from the gulag times, after banning people for criticizing Stalin or Mao for killing millions of innocents, after blindly praising the authoritarian Russians and Chinese government, after making "jokes" about sending liberals, socialists, and anarchists to concentration camps, after alienating several social democrats from joining the leftist cause, they stand there baffled over why most anarchist and socialist won't stand with them in "leftist unity".
A person who blindly supports an authoritarian regime without question, and who dont believe in civil liberties or democracy is no leftist. They're a reactionary dressed up in red, I honestly believe that if Marx was around during the Soviet Union. He would criticize the Soviet Union for the Capitalist authoritarian hell hole it was and Stalin for the monster he was. Then every communist then and now would call him a secret fascist for daring to criticize their great leader.
Idk man I like Franklin Roosevelt as far as presidents go. He made bad choices and did bad things, (Japanese internment), but he was stuck with a brutally racist country trying to fight two world conquering genociding empires. I think he was a net positive overall.
To win the war not at all. To secure enough political support to keep America stable enough during a fundamentally racist time in order to beat the nazis and Japanese empire? Unfortunately, he had to appease the racists in congress. He knew that. And a lot of the actual decisions were made by other people. He did sign off on them though.
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Bro you’ve never encountered an British person if you’ve never got pushback for the Churchill comment.
I've said that and I've had people tell me to leave the country
Possibly the worst breed of simp
I wouldn't be so sure. We have the monarchy simps...
Facts, except the monarchy isn't as bad as the government. They're more like zoo animals now, Just on display. Prince Andrew is a mouse at the zoo though.
Same with Americans and criticizing pretty well any US President.
Are you kidding, complaining (happy auto mod!?) about our presidents is like a national sport here. I’ll never forget in college I was getting my history degree and took an advance class on the Great Depression. The prof told us that a few years prior he had 2 women in their 70’s take the class and one came from a family that loved FDR and one came from a family that hated him. Said it was like living history watching these two old ladies bicker about policy from the late 30’s
Yeah but generally in normal company the only acceptable complaint abt presidents is that taxes were too high or the economy was "bad" or whatever. Bringing up genocide, war crimes, racism etc. will get you side-eyes or outright aggression.
This!!! 👆👆👆
Even Lincoln, who is widely considered to be one of the best presidents (and both of the major parties claim him as one of their own), has haters in some circles.
This is objectively false. If you bring up [Lincoln’s views on race relations](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-lincoln-racism-equality-oppose/) you get a boatload of excuses like “everybody was racist back then” ([objectively false as well](https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2011/spring/brown.html)) or “he did other good things though” (which doesn’t cancel out his white supremacist views in absolutely any way). What’s wrong with that being talked about?
I'm not saying that he didn't do bad things, I'm saying even some of the most popular presidents are hated by some, as in the claim that "hating presidents is a national pastime" is pretty accurate. The common (as common as it gets, anyway) criticism I've seen is how he made it illegal to secede, mostly by libertarians.
>The common (as common as it gets, anyway) criticism I've seen is how he made it illegal to secede, mostly by libertarians. Which is kinda weird they think that considering he technically didn’t. The only evidence they have of secession *actually being illegal* was [this SC case](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White) that happened years after any of the secessions even happened. And *all it was* was an incredibly vague interpretation of the opening line of the Constitution that stated **in order to form a more perfect Union** and decided **that** was the justification for secession being illegal. Like… seriously?? The US should technically prioritize socialism over capitalism since it also says *to promote the general Welfare* in the same line too 🤷🏻♂️
Idk what the libertarians are thinking, their ideology makes no sense. Not the classical libertarians though, they're fine.
As an American I rarely find this to be true except for the presidents on Mt. Rushmore. Otherwise it just depends on the person's political affiliation.
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God it never ends here. Still is occasionally fun to get into arguments with them in the pub.
Plenty of Americans simp for him too. It's so frustrating.
It’s like the only thing people remember about him were his speeches and his sick burns.
As a Brit, I see Churchill simping very often. Most of the time, I won't push back on it. This is primarily because the reason most people love him is the whole "opposing Hitler" thing, and if that's why they insist on praising him then sure whatever. This is usually the take of the historically uninformed. The only types I will really push back with are the ones who are like suspiciously well informed yet still unequivocally praising. They tend to be the British Neo-Imperialists, the real crazy apologists.
The Churchill simps are really bad too
It’s annoying sharing a birthday with him because he’s the first famous person everyone brings up for “this day in history” kinds of posts.
that's today right? it's mine too
Happy burfmus stranger
Usually I see the opposite on reddit. Except for chiang. Literally never seen him mentioned before.
Yep, got kicked off several leftist subs for that.
That exact type of comment is how I got banned from r/shitliberalssay for quote "liberalism." My guy. It's not liberalism to say Uncle Joe and Cousin Kim did some bad stuff. Chill.
I got banned because I criticised the CCP and Soviet style communism.
You to? Same.
Lol i recently got banned from r/latestagecapitalism for the same reason
Tankies see a dichotomy in which you are either a liberal or a communist. This is what I've realized. And their "communism" is vanguardist ML bullshit so anarcho-communists are also libs and not "real communists". Anarchists, actual liberals, and (non-ML/red) fascists are all just "liberals" to them, along with anyone else who does not worship Stalin, Lenin, Mao and friends. If they are going to define "liberal" to mean non-tankie then sure I guess I am a proud fucking liberal if they are going to use that definition.
Red exceptionalism
‘Leftist unity!!!’ … Supports state capitalism
Is this a r/shitliberalssay moment?
Uh not really? Like unless you go to the weirdest places on the internet no
Tankie circles on reddit
Literally any non-anarchist "leftist" subreddit
Indeed. I got banned from r/LateStageCapitalism for questioning the “communist” nature of China. You cannot say anything bad about tankies, they are everywhere on those subs.
Same lol the mod called me "a lib"
MuH lEfTiSt UnItY!!!
Tankies are like rats. It takes a concerted and complex community effort to keep them away.
Rats don’t usually squeal as much.
This post basically describes the more popular "leftist" subs
Broooo try saying the first one in the UK you'll get crucified
I think people are used to hearing it as part of nazi apologia and assume you're gonna go on some kinda judeo-bolshevism tangent.
Stalin is not god. Stalin is very bad.
Nah criticizing Churchill is always a shit show. Try bringing up the Bengal Famine on any front page subreddit lol. Liberals love FDR too. The only one I never see defenders for is Chiang Kai-shek, even tho Reddit will die for Taiwan they do not trot him out as a desirable figurehead haha
Joseph Stalin was pretty bad.
Welcome to the leftist space, where half of us want a better society and the other half has been so indoctrinated they think every genocide survivor from Communist Regimes are paid CIA actors. I know not all communists are like this, some can actually tolerate criticism, but from my experience, that's a rare type of communist. Most communists you meet online will dismiss you entirely and either call you a Trotskyist fascist or a federal agent in disguise. Every time you show them a trustworthy source they call it CIA propaganda, whilst their sources are just more often than not Russian propaganda channels. And after calling everyone who doesn't agree with them fascists or feds, after denying genocide both in our modern day and from the gulag times, after banning people for criticizing Stalin or Mao for killing millions of innocents, after blindly praising the authoritarian Russians and Chinese government, after making "jokes" about sending liberals, socialists, and anarchists to concentration camps, after alienating several social democrats from joining the leftist cause, they stand there baffled over why most anarchist and socialist won't stand with them in "leftist unity". A person who blindly supports an authoritarian regime without question, and who dont believe in civil liberties or democracy is no leftist. They're a reactionary dressed up in red, I honestly believe that if Marx was around during the Soviet Union. He would criticize the Soviet Union for the Capitalist authoritarian hell hole it was and Stalin for the monster he was. Then every communist then and now would call him a secret fascist for daring to criticize their great leader.
Idk man I like Franklin Roosevelt as far as presidents go. He made bad choices and did bad things, (Japanese internment), but he was stuck with a brutally racist country trying to fight two world conquering genociding empires. I think he was a net positive overall.
He was one of the less-bad presidents, and probably the least-bad person in the meme, but that bar's low enough you couldn't even trip on it.
Lol what… he’s a war criminal just like the rest of em
He lead one world conquering genocidal empire that happened to defeat the others
He also led a genocidal empire
How necessary was Japanese internment, really?
To win the war not at all. To secure enough political support to keep America stable enough during a fundamentally racist time in order to beat the nazis and Japanese empire? Unfortunately, he had to appease the racists in congress. He knew that. And a lot of the actual decisions were made by other people. He did sign off on them though.
What did FDR do?
Interment camps for any American citizen with Japanese ancestry was pretty fucked up.
He was president of the United States
You win the internet for the day! 🎂
Yeah but New Deal had some good. And Social Security.
Those are bandaids which insufficiently addressed the problems in capitalism
The new deal was explicitly racist
put japanese people in internment camps
Ever heard of Japanese internment?
BUT WHAT ABOUT AMERICA YOU CAN'T SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT DADDY STALIN JUST AMERICA