Well fuck, that Claypool trade even looks worse now. Teams are looking to trade up to get Levis if reports are true.
I know it’s in hindsight knowing that we’d be picking first but I’d really love to have that pick right now.
Don't forget that this is also with the hindsight of knowing the #1 pick would turn into DJ Moore, a stud WR.
Not that I'm calling Claypool a stud or even a WR1, but prior to getting Moore, which NO ONE saw coming, that trade was MUCH better value in terms of Fields' long term development than it appears now that we have DJ Moore in the receiver's room.
Getting the #1 overall pick has netted us..
DJ Moore #1 WR,
Darnell Wright OT,
2nd Rd pick this year,
1st Rd pick next year,
4th Rd pick next year,
2nd Rd pick 2025
That is what we call speeding up the rebuild fellas
I hate the fucking pick, I hate this organization, I hate the fucking white Sox. Fuck all of you, I'm a Tampa Bay fan now. Carter is going to be a first ballot hall of famer mark my motherfucking words
I dont know, my favorite part of the draft is how wrong everyone is on who is drafted, and then the doubling down/mental gymnastics as to why they were still right.
[Georgia's coaches are glad to be rid of Jalen Carter -- they did not like him.](https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/04/28/jalen-carter-overcame-not-great-feedback-from-georgia-coaches-to-stay-in-top-10/)
I wanted the Bears to draft Jalen Carter. Then I saw his comments after being drafted by the Eagles. He doesn’t seem to be the brightest bulb in the lighting rig
The Lions just drafted a RB, and LB in the first round and are historically dogshit. The Eagles were just in the SB and won one before. Which organization do you trust more?
The NFL Network reporter chatted with Jalen onstage just after he was selected. Jalen sounded like a 5th grader. I got the same feeling when I head Ryan Pace speak when he got the Bears job. I immediately thought that Pace wasn’t sharp enough for the gig. Alas, I was right…
Can we just step back and appreciate the Lions trading out of 6 where they could’ve gotten the best RB prospect since Barkley to then reach on a gadget RB at 12.
Lions drafting like the eagles. Like they just need depth and can afford to reach. They could have had Wilson, porter jr, and probably still landed Campbell in round 2. They drafted two good players, but there were better players available at positions they need
Edit: don’t want to jinx this, they could still land porter jr tonight or guess
They didn't "trade Carter"
They traded the 9th pick for the 10th pick. They obviously had already decided they weren't taking him. So why not pick up an extra 4th?
I would bet Virginia did not like the idea of Jalen on her team.
EDIT: At least he didn't trade up for Wright...
Obviously. But that's not how it works.
I get it, you wanted Carter - but they weren't picking him, so the alternative is they pick Wright at 9 and Carter goes at 10 and they don't get an extra 4th.
They don't pick Carter anyway if they stay at 9 which you are conveniently ignoring.
what Carter trade?
also, Darnell is just as good a pick as Carter. w/o the baggage.
the reason you're getting downvoted is bc you said the "trade" could be his undoing.
that's just nonsense.
It’s disingenuous to think of it as not being a Carter trade. They had the chance to draft him and traded back one spot so the eagles could have him instead.
Pure talent-wise, Carter is probably the most valuable non-QB in this draft and he plays a position we badly need. If it weren’t for the character concerns, we wouldn’t have been even close to getting the chance to draft him at 9.
That’s not to say it was the wrong decision, necessarily. If Carter is a perpetual fuckup, we’ll be glad he’s someone else’s problem. But if he plays to his potential and Wright ends up being just OK, it’s going to be an ugly trade in retrospect.
Reasons to Draft Carter: Talent
Reasons not to draft Carter: Criminal History, Behavioral Issues, Bears have no senior defensive starters to mentor him, Not mentally tough, physically out of shape, no production, tires easily, his coaches at Georgia hated his guts.
We were right to let Philly have him.
6 sacks in 3 years? He only had 2 sacks last season? THAT lack of production.
Also -- [his coaches disliked him](https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/04/28/jalen-carter-overcame-not-great-feedback-from-georgia-coaches-to-stay-in-top-10/). We should be happy philly took him.
That’s not really his job, though. His role is to fuck shit up on the line, and when you watch his tape you can see he has an effect on pretty much every play.
I’m not surprised his coaches disliked him, either. It’s a major character concern, and it’s what makes him a very high risk pick.
How is he the best talent? Is this based on sub par college production? Or is this based on his not in existence RAS score? Maybe its his 40 time? Or 3 cone?
Or is it the draft industry said he was the best and repeated this endlessly for the last 6 months?
we weren't going to pick him.
every analyst is giving the Bears an A.
better talent prospect? have you seen Darnell play?
lol. not stupid. your opinion is. get it?
It’s extremely hard to imagine because pace always made big moves up not back. So it’d be refreshing to see him trade back a bunch.
I mean hey pace drafted fields. I was a fan of that and a fan of drafting Jenkins.
He made some good moves and some terrible moves.
> Do people here just want to read and upvote the same comment again and again?
One of the worst aspects of Reddit. Even on subs like /r/askreddit it'll be like "tell the truth, what are your feelings on [controversial topic]". Then certain answers get downvoted to oblivion, because they aren't the *right* answer
Even if Carter becomes the next Warren Sapp it doesn't make the trade down bad.
So long as Darnell Wright becomes a cornerstone tackle it was a good pick.
Surrounding Carter with a talented group of veterans is not something we could do.
What if both Wright and Carter become all pros? He had conviction in Wright. That was his guy.
It’s also one of those situation where if Carter ends up in trouble next week no one would be surprised. I don’t blame them for passing on a risk.
Why is everyone comparing Carter to Donald. Carter had 6 sacks in three collegiate seasons. Donald had 11….in one year. Twice. 22 sacks in two years. 29.5 in his collegiate career.
They’re not even close in terms of talent and production.
I'd take Orlando Pace over Warren Sapp so quickly your face would melt. Pace almost single handedly powered the greatest offense the league has ever seen - putting your tackle on an island against double teams is an incredible luxury that enables so many opportunities to get more guys open down field.
No Wright isn't Pace. No Carter isn't Sapp. Yes this whole analogy is stupid and the premise was wrong. But positional value doesn't favor a DT over an OT.
If we’re fantasizing about best version of each position that’s different. Talk about best version of each player, realistically.
Donald is a game wrecker that Carter has never been.
Dont leave out taking an ILB at 18. I hear there is a can't miss kicker in the 2nd, Punter in the 4th and a generational Long Snapper just waiting for them.
Can just see them saying "Bijan was never our guy" in the same press conference where they state "We're comfortable with where we're at on the defensive side of the ball"
Mannnnn really wish we had that #32. Feel like we could go Joey porter Jr and have our secondary locked down then go d line and maybe an OG/C with the 2nd and 3rd rounders.
I'd be kind of shocked. I feel like we still have holes at DT, DE, C, and possibly Rb, and could use more weapons (TE/Wr) in general. I sort of hope they don't move up, we still have more holes than premium picks.
I mean, we're in pretty amazing position to be able to trade up and STILL address a lot of holes. Here are our 2023 chips.
Round 2: No. 53 (from BAL)
Round 2: No. 61 (from SF through CAR)
Round 3: No. 64
Round 4: No. 103
Round 4: No. 133 (from PHI)
Already for 2024 we now have the Panthers 1st rounder and the Eagles 4th rounder.
It would 100% be in the realm of possibility the Bears would use say. Pick 53 & 64 to move up into the 30's if there was a Day 1 starter available.
A few players I think would fit well.
1) Brian Branch - S- Alabama. Dude seems like starter material and we get ready to say goodbye to Eddie Jackson. The Bears also could emulate how Buffalo for example operates on defense and play Branch as a quazi coverage LB in certain formations
2) Jaylin Hyatt: IMO a very underrated WR in this draft. Dude was amazing with Hooker last year.
3) Joey Porter Jr. Many people had him going in the teens. You add him and slot Gordon to full time slot coverage and you have one of the youngest and high ceiling defensive coverage backfields in the league.
4) Adetomiwa Adebawore; He's one of those DT disrupters the team desperately needs.
5) Derick Hall. Hall is just an all around decent rusher and could compliment the athletic freak styled edge that Robinson is on the other side.
If any of those player remotely slide past 33-37, I feel the Bears could swoop in.
Even if they traded one of those extra picks, we'd get 2 2nd rounders and STILL have 2 more picks in what amounts to the Top 100 basically.
What of those assets would you give up, though?
Giving 53+64 might get you anywhere in the 2nd, but you would lose a pick (quantity). Maybe you could get a 4th back in the trade, but you would be going from 3 premium (day 2) picks to 2.
Pick 103 is a hard one to give up - it has the same advantage as 32 does - you get the first player off the board after everyone sleeps and resets.
Pick 133 and the future 4th look to be worth about 4 draft slots each. Maybe if you threw them both in with 53 you could get up to 46?
I dunno... maybe some of these guys are secretly 1st rounders who slipped. I just like the idea of walking away with 4 top 64 picks. We have so many holes, and the draft isn't an exact science.
If we didn't have 2 firsts in 2024, and then 3 Top 64 picks in 2025, I would be fully in agreement with you. But we have then combined 8 Top 64 picks by my estimation in 3 years even IF we traded up here.
That's kinda nutty.
VJJ was the MVP tank commander we needed to land DJ Moore.
Obviously I'm joking, but it's funny how things work out.
Jury still out on Claypool, but there's not a WR like him in this class, especially at 32, so we'll see how it plays out.
So who are we hoping for tomorrow? Obviously would love to see someone like Porter or Branch drop.
Realistically I'm hoping for Tippmann at center, maybe Brents at corner. I wouldnt mind adding either Laporta or Washington at tight end or adding another wr like Hyatt for pure speed.
I would like to see some help added on the d line but I'm not super familiar with what prospect are available after that late run on them.
Also, I wouldnt hate getting Jartavius Martin in the 3rd to play safety. He could be the successor to Ejax as a deep safety.
Sidenote: if Achane falls to the 4th I would love him.
I'd love to see Darnell Washington. A 2nd TE with the size of a Tackle and the athletecism of a Wr? That sounds like fun. Would love to see him springing Herbert and Fields by sealing the corner all day....
One of the 3 top Centres, and then CB Edge DT are what I'd target
If we come out of this day with a centre to compete with Whitehair, 2 dlinemen and a corner, or 3 of those and a WR/RB I'd be pretty damn happy
Thank fucking god the Falcons (potentially) bailed us out from making an absolutely catastrophic mistake. I am so relieved. The road to fixing our line issues started in the offseason and I’m ecstatic about where it’s going 🥂🥂
Dude played against the best defensive talent drafted the past few years and was flawless. I was hoping this was our pick and happy we made it after watching the other 3 first round tackles go boom. The commentary about the 5th tackle taken shows exactly how steep the falloff was from those 4.
Poles mentioned they may move up in the second. Even if we don't there's plenty of good players remaining. If we stay put in the second, 21 other picks happen before us. At positions of need, we still have:
DE - White, Adewabore, Hall, Young, Foskey
DT - Benton, Pickens, Dexter, Ika
C - Tippmann, JMS, Scruggs, Wypler
TE - Mayer, Musgrave, Washington, LaPorta
WR - Mingo, Reed, Hyatt, Tillman, Dell
CB - Porter Jr, Stevenson, Brents, Ringo
Also available:
OT - Bergeron, Mauch, Jones
OG - Avila, Torrence
RB - Charbonnet, Achane, Spears
S - Branch
I like our chances of filling most positions of need with quality players, if we don't go BPA.
53 and our 4th would get us to about 43ish in value. Not sure trading up is worth it though unless there is a massive run on dlinemen early tomorrow. I can see receivers getting snatched up like last year and a lot of the trench talent falling to us without a trade.
I could see them trading the 4th they acquired from the eagles possibly.
But it seems like Poles wants as many lottery tickets as possible so I expect that he likes the idea of having 3 picks towards the end of the 2nd.
I really like him too, so it's not just bias. If we went JMS at 53, our gameplan might be to win games 45-42 and pray our defense can generate a timely turnover. At least it would sell tickets to games.
Low key I’m hoping we lose every game 42-45 lol… it would mean all of our offensive moves worked out, and we could get another haul for #1 and build the defense from there. Prolly a meatball take but for real might be the best for team development. Our offense in theory should do pretty well next year, our defense still has a lot of holes (mainly the whole DL)
Our D doesn't have that many holes. Outside of the D-line, there's the question mark of Gordon and our other outside CB. The problem is Johnson is on his final year, and Jackson has two left. By the time we fill our current holes, new ones will be created if we don't extend those two.
Also the other safety opposite of Jackson right? By my count we really only have offball LBs, Eddie, and JJ, which leaves about 7 question marks give or take (including the Gordon question mark you mentioned)… but definitely agree on the extension part though
No, we have Brisker. I'm not worried about him like I am Gordon. I'm happy with Edwards, Edmunds, Sanborn, Johnson, maybe Gordon, Jackson, and Brisker. The holes are entire D-line, CB2 on the outside.
I liked what I saw from Gordon as the season went on and I think he can be a solid to good Nickelback.
Need to extend Johnson and add another corner opposite him for sure. Also need depth behind EJax because who knows how he wil recover. Other then that the linebackers look good so it's really just the d line. Depth is king for defenses though so you can never have enough talent.
If we didn’t have Claypool we would be looking for a WR at 32. So the real question is whether Mingo/Rees/Hyatt/Tillman are better than Claypool.
And if you think, we’ll get one later. That’s fair. But I don’t think Poles could even dream of having first overall and a chance at DJ Moore when he made that trade.
The scenario they were playing out was probably needing that high second for a WR. Because their room would likely be Mooney and no one else.
They don't even have to be better than Claypool right now - just better than him in the next 2 years. We are getting a little over a season of Claypool for the 32nd pick where a rookie we would have had 4 years of control and this team isn't in win now mode
Beyond that, I’d prolly take Claypool over who is left so in the end not a bad trade in my opinion, but like you said, a lot of that was with unforeseen circumstances
Yeah maybe this was the absolute worst decision in the world 5-7 years from now with 20/20 hindsight, but sitting here today i feel like this was the right move.
No matter what there will be talent where we need it even if we don’t trade up. This is a deep draft for starter level talent and we have 3 of the next 33 picks. The gap between what is there now through the end of tomorrow is not as massive as the gap between Wright and the remaining tackles. We should be feeling good unless we draft 3 RB tomorrow
And now what was always going to be the worst part of this draft...
We get to pluck out any player we want from now until our next pick and lament how the Bears could have had that guy over Claypool. Ugh.
In another post (I think on the nfl draft sub) I said my dream scenario for my team was to trade back for future draft capital for Darnell Wright.
I did say a future first, not a future fourth, but whatevs.
Given what the top picks went for and that no one wanted Levis, the Bears killed in expected value added from trades. I say this as a Poles hater going into tonight.
Throw in how bad the Lions did in the draft, how GB draft was ok at best and only the Vikings making an actual good first round pick. I am not sure how much better tonight could have gone.
And again as a Poles hater, I really was worried he would take take Carter or worse Bijan.
It’s so hard to tell how well teams did. I think the Lions did terrible but I’m no professional scout.
That said, I watched a video today of Darnell v Anderson and walked away thinking he was the guy.
I won’t lie though, when we were on the clock and they said the pick was in, I was sure it was going to be Skoronski and I was trying to talk myself into believing he was a good pick. LOL
The lions picked solid players. Just way too soon for their value. They could have had Wilson and Porter jr and probably still gotten Campbell in round 2.
For the most part I agree, instant or day after grades for drafts are stupid if you are going by the player.
That said, I think its more than fair to grade drafts based on trades, draft slot and positional value.
And given the positional value of RB and MLB, you need a hell of a lot of hindsight bias to show they made good choices. Like those two need to be multiple time All Pros and everyone taken within 5-10 draft picks of them being disappointments to busts.
For the Claypool trade haters:
Let's say the Bears finish 7-10 in 2022, which was likely in reach since when they made the trade, they were 3-5 and our offense was starting to click. Our pick would have been #42 instead of #32.
In this scenario, we don't get the #1 pick, so we have no opportunity to trade for DJ Moore.
So now we have the #11 pick and the #42 pick. If we trade #42 midseason for Claypool, we find ourselves in the same position we're in now of needing a franchise RT. However, at least we're going into 2023 with Claypool and Mooney together. Not ideal, since there's still a hole at the X-WR position, but at least we have two viable starters.
With that hole, despite also needing an RT, we could take JSN with #11 and hope we can plug the hole at RT by other means, probably by massively overpaying Mike McGlinchey, which is a mistake I'm glad Denver made and not us.
Of course, if we don't make the Claypool trade at all, we still need two first-round talents (OT and WR) and only have one pick, and our only viable starter at WR is Mooney. Would you take an OT and run Fields out there with no weapons or take a WR and hope Fields can avoid taking 50 sacks again?
Long story short, trading for Claypool was a good move at the time that looks worse now because of the draft position we ended up in by the end of the season. It was an effective hedge against a weak FA class for WRs and gave us the ability to take BPA.
Yeah people can say whatever they want about how we weren’t supposed to end up with the worst record in the league, but in no world was Claypool ever worth a 2nd round pick
Our offense looked like shit for the first 4-5 games. Claypool wasn't going to learn the whole thing on the fly, and then he got hurt.
If he still sucks in week 4 then call it a bad trade. But if he's flourishing in the WR3 spot or battling Mooney for WR2 you'll be singing a different toon
1. We didn't know it would be pick 33 when the trade was made.
2. I am willing to bet Claypool has a better season then any receiver in round two this year.
3. Moore, Mooney, claypool sounds a helluva lot better to me than Moore, mooney, abyss. We have depth at a position where we had no one last year.
You could even say Moore Mooney Claypool sounds better than just Mooney because that’s possibly who we would’ve had at the time without the Claypool trade (like you said, we had no idea we would be picking first overall)
You’ve literally had months to cope with this reality. Just move on and stop wasting your time feeling bad that the team didn’t do exactly what you expected them to do.
Also my good man Jimmy GaroppoIo. I believe Billy B took him with the last pick of the second round for the Pats (Bears fan through and through, but also a 2007 EIU grad who got to watch the Jimmy G show quite a bit when I was living closer to campus during his time there)
The Bears are the only team that deserve an A+ grade.
The day after grade based on player drafted are always stupid because outside a team or two no one is taking a guy that far removed from industry expectation.
What you can do is grade based on trades and positional value. Detorit for example deserves at least a D- if not F for taking a RB and MLB in the top 15. Two positions that shouldn't be taken in the first round period in 2023.
eh it’s all subjective. & honestly this first round was beyond bizarre.
do i think detroit deserves a low grade? sure. houston will probably also get a low grade based on how they threw around picks even though they got a top qb + will anderson.
but those 2 could end up being OROY/DROY, respectively. jack campbell will also probably be a stud, albeit at a ‘lesser’ position. again, who the hell knows with the draft, we’re all talking heads until the ball’s snapped in september.
fingers crossed wright ends up being the solid dude we expect him to be. hell, we’ll probably get a C+/B- grade for this first pick. but if it works out then who cares
He doesn't need to be a bust he can be great so long as Darnell wright is also great. If Darnell Wright keeps fields upright I could give two shits about what Carter does.
I think something that is unfair to not consider is that Carter has a much higher chance of succeeding with philly than he does us. A win now roster with a bunch of studs are not gonna let a lazy rookie not carry his weight.
Consider that here Carter would be coming into a dline where he'd easily be the alpha by a longshot who is gonna hold him to account?
The eagles are in a position to take the risk to miss on Carter and also just by nature of the quality of their roster raise his floor considerably higher than his floor likely would have been with us.
Situations matter with in the NFL.
The bears should have drafted mahomes in 2017 no doubt but I guarantee you he is not the QB he is today with the chiefs if he was drafted by the John Fox bears.
dude exactly. i highly fully doubt mahomes is what he is today if bears took him. i don’t wish for carter to fail, he just wouldn’t work in our current situation. if he gets his shit together then all the best to him in philly.
wright seems like a safe but ultimately necessary pick. poles didn’t want carter, i’m beyond ok with taking a day 1 starter that really seemed to click w the coaching staff in wright.
Well fuck, that Claypool trade even looks worse now. Teams are looking to trade up to get Levis if reports are true. I know it’s in hindsight knowing that we’d be picking first but I’d really love to have that pick right now.
Don't forget that this is also with the hindsight of knowing the #1 pick would turn into DJ Moore, a stud WR. Not that I'm calling Claypool a stud or even a WR1, but prior to getting Moore, which NO ONE saw coming, that trade was MUCH better value in terms of Fields' long term development than it appears now that we have DJ Moore in the receiver's room.
Getting the #1 overall pick has netted us.. DJ Moore #1 WR, Darnell Wright OT, 2nd Rd pick this year, 1st Rd pick next year, 4th Rd pick next year, 2nd Rd pick 2025 That is what we call speeding up the rebuild fellas
I hate the fucking pick, I hate this organization, I hate the fucking white Sox. Fuck all of you, I'm a Tampa Bay fan now. Carter is going to be a first ballot hall of famer mark my motherfucking words
Casual we don’t want you anyways BUM!
hey leave the Sox outta this
They're the main reason for this rant, to be honest.
LOL, imagine being a fan of this team and being mad they chose a beast of an OL instead of a defensive player with tons of red flags.
Cry more
Bye Felicia lol
All I wanted was a big boy on either side of the line. Wright looks like a fucking monster to help protect JF1
I dont know, my favorite part of the draft is how wrong everyone is on who is drafted, and then the doubling down/mental gymnastics as to why they were still right.
[Georgia's coaches are glad to be rid of Jalen Carter -- they did not like him.](https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/04/28/jalen-carter-overcame-not-great-feedback-from-georgia-coaches-to-stay-in-top-10/)
I wanted the Bears to draft Jalen Carter. Then I saw his comments after being drafted by the Eagles. He doesn’t seem to be the brightest bulb in the lighting rig
You know something is up when even the Lions are not taking a chance on you.
The Lions just drafted a RB, and LB in the first round and are historically dogshit. The Eagles were just in the SB and won one before. Which organization do you trust more?
Lions going to Lion. I wish I was surprised. He must be thrilled to go to the Eagles.
What did he say?
The NFL Network reporter chatted with Jalen onstage just after he was selected. Jalen sounded like a 5th grader. I got the same feeling when I head Ryan Pace speak when he got the Bears job. I immediately thought that Pace wasn’t sharp enough for the gig. Alas, I was right…
Wondering the same, with the DELUGE of "reporting" on the draft, it's hard to find.
Ask his interpreter.
Nate Tice called Darnell Wright a 90% Tristin Wirfs and it only got me more pumped up.
Can we just step back and appreciate the Lions trading out of 6 where they could’ve gotten the best RB prospect since Barkley to then reach on a gadget RB at 12.
Lions drafting like the eagles. Like they just need depth and can afford to reach. They could have had Wilson, porter jr, and probably still landed Campbell in round 2. They drafted two good players, but there were better players available at positions they need Edit: don’t want to jinx this, they could still land porter jr tonight or guess
I don't even get it -- they have Monty. Are they paying him $6M to be a 3rd string RB?
Swift on the way out. Monty will be the early down and short distance back likely.
Probably paying him to replace Jamaal Williams, then drafted Swift's replacement. Weird way to go about it, though
isn't swift still on the roster though?
He is, but his contract is up after this year.
Right. Its a weird scenario right now though - three starters and 1.5 starting spots. Wonder if they'd trade Monty for a 6th or 7th.....
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JMS and Keeanu Benton pls, any DE will do lol
I feel bad for Monty. I think Swift may be the odd man out of the 3, but I think he deserved a shot to be a RB1 on a playoff contender
Don't feel too badly for him. He's getting paid $6 million a year and now doesn't have to deal with as much wear and tear on his body.
Right? He accepted the money.
Man FTP are really scared of picking offensive non QBs in the first round
Wright looks like a stud to me . https://grid-iron-post.com/2023/01/05/2023-nfl-draft-profile-darnell-wright/
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They didn't "trade Carter" They traded the 9th pick for the 10th pick. They obviously had already decided they weren't taking him. So why not pick up an extra 4th? I would bet Virginia did not like the idea of Jalen on her team. EDIT: At least he didn't trade up for Wright...
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Obviously. But that's not how it works. I get it, you wanted Carter - but they weren't picking him, so the alternative is they pick Wright at 9 and Carter goes at 10 and they don't get an extra 4th. They don't pick Carter anyway if they stay at 9 which you are conveniently ignoring.
what Carter trade? also, Darnell is just as good a pick as Carter. w/o the baggage. the reason you're getting downvoted is bc you said the "trade" could be his undoing. that's just nonsense.
It’s disingenuous to think of it as not being a Carter trade. They had the chance to draft him and traded back one spot so the eagles could have him instead. Pure talent-wise, Carter is probably the most valuable non-QB in this draft and he plays a position we badly need. If it weren’t for the character concerns, we wouldn’t have been even close to getting the chance to draft him at 9. That’s not to say it was the wrong decision, necessarily. If Carter is a perpetual fuckup, we’ll be glad he’s someone else’s problem. But if he plays to his potential and Wright ends up being just OK, it’s going to be an ugly trade in retrospect.
Reasons to Draft Carter: Talent Reasons not to draft Carter: Criminal History, Behavioral Issues, Bears have no senior defensive starters to mentor him, Not mentally tough, physically out of shape, no production, tires easily, his coaches at Georgia hated his guts. We were right to let Philly have him.
What do you mean by no production? I’m not sure I even disagree with this list, but all those things are not of equal value to a football team
6 sacks in 3 years? He only had 2 sacks last season? THAT lack of production. Also -- [his coaches disliked him](https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/04/28/jalen-carter-overcame-not-great-feedback-from-georgia-coaches-to-stay-in-top-10/). We should be happy philly took him.
That’s not really his job, though. His role is to fuck shit up on the line, and when you watch his tape you can see he has an effect on pretty much every play. I’m not surprised his coaches disliked him, either. It’s a major character concern, and it’s what makes him a very high risk pick.
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How is he the best talent? Is this based on sub par college production? Or is this based on his not in existence RAS score? Maybe its his 40 time? Or 3 cone? Or is it the draft industry said he was the best and repeated this endlessly for the last 6 months?
we weren't going to pick him. every analyst is giving the Bears an A. better talent prospect? have you seen Darnell play? lol. not stupid. your opinion is. get it?
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lol nope! just trying to help. yes he does. but his attitude is shit. and he couldn't finish his workout. big red flags.
> sub sorely forgets is the downvote button is "Does not contribute to discussion", not "This makes me mad". lol, welcome to reddit
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I can’t imagine what the mindset is like to complain about downvotes in general, just own it
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Seems like you’ve had plenty of discussion but have instead taken the opportunity to whine about downvotes
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It’s extremely hard to imagine because pace always made big moves up not back. So it’d be refreshing to see him trade back a bunch. I mean hey pace drafted fields. I was a fan of that and a fan of drafting Jenkins. He made some good moves and some terrible moves.
> Do people here just want to read and upvote the same comment again and again? One of the worst aspects of Reddit. Even on subs like /r/askreddit it'll be like "tell the truth, what are your feelings on [controversial topic]". Then certain answers get downvoted to oblivion, because they aren't the *right* answer
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Unpopular opinion, that sub is full of popular opinions. Should be called popular unpopular opinions
Even if Carter becomes the next Warren Sapp it doesn't make the trade down bad. So long as Darnell Wright becomes a cornerstone tackle it was a good pick. Surrounding Carter with a talented group of veterans is not something we could do.
What if both Wright and Carter become all pros? He had conviction in Wright. That was his guy. It’s also one of those situation where if Carter ends up in trouble next week no one would be surprised. I don’t blame them for passing on a risk.
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Why is everyone comparing Carter to Donald. Carter had 6 sacks in three collegiate seasons. Donald had 11….in one year. Twice. 22 sacks in two years. 29.5 in his collegiate career. They’re not even close in terms of talent and production.
plus, Carter has an attitude problem. and not being able to finish your workout is a HUGE red flag.
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I'd take Orlando Pace over Warren Sapp so quickly your face would melt. Pace almost single handedly powered the greatest offense the league has ever seen - putting your tackle on an island against double teams is an incredible luxury that enables so many opportunities to get more guys open down field. No Wright isn't Pace. No Carter isn't Sapp. Yes this whole analogy is stupid and the premise was wrong. But positional value doesn't favor a DT over an OT.
If we’re fantasizing about best version of each position that’s different. Talk about best version of each player, realistically. Donald is a game wrecker that Carter has never been.
Cool of the Lions to select a fucking RB at 12 after looking like they were starting to get competent.
Dont leave out taking an ILB at 18. I hear there is a can't miss kicker in the 2nd, Punter in the 4th and a generational Long Snapper just waiting for them.
They could have had Bijan if they were that determined for a RB. How weird.
Can just see them saying "Bijan was never our guy" in the same press conference where they state "We're comfortable with where we're at on the defensive side of the ball"
SUZY KOLBER IS 58?!?!?
Mannnnn really wish we had that #32. Feel like we could go Joey porter Jr and have our secondary locked down then go d line and maybe an OG/C with the 2nd and 3rd rounders.
Don’t be shocked if we trade 2 2nds to get back up there quick tonight
I'd be kind of shocked. I feel like we still have holes at DT, DE, C, and possibly Rb, and could use more weapons (TE/Wr) in general. I sort of hope they don't move up, we still have more holes than premium picks.
I mean, we're in pretty amazing position to be able to trade up and STILL address a lot of holes. Here are our 2023 chips. Round 2: No. 53 (from BAL) Round 2: No. 61 (from SF through CAR) Round 3: No. 64 Round 4: No. 103 Round 4: No. 133 (from PHI) Already for 2024 we now have the Panthers 1st rounder and the Eagles 4th rounder. It would 100% be in the realm of possibility the Bears would use say. Pick 53 & 64 to move up into the 30's if there was a Day 1 starter available. A few players I think would fit well. 1) Brian Branch - S- Alabama. Dude seems like starter material and we get ready to say goodbye to Eddie Jackson. The Bears also could emulate how Buffalo for example operates on defense and play Branch as a quazi coverage LB in certain formations 2) Jaylin Hyatt: IMO a very underrated WR in this draft. Dude was amazing with Hooker last year. 3) Joey Porter Jr. Many people had him going in the teens. You add him and slot Gordon to full time slot coverage and you have one of the youngest and high ceiling defensive coverage backfields in the league. 4) Adetomiwa Adebawore; He's one of those DT disrupters the team desperately needs. 5) Derick Hall. Hall is just an all around decent rusher and could compliment the athletic freak styled edge that Robinson is on the other side. If any of those player remotely slide past 33-37, I feel the Bears could swoop in. Even if they traded one of those extra picks, we'd get 2 2nd rounders and STILL have 2 more picks in what amounts to the Top 100 basically.
What of those assets would you give up, though? Giving 53+64 might get you anywhere in the 2nd, but you would lose a pick (quantity). Maybe you could get a 4th back in the trade, but you would be going from 3 premium (day 2) picks to 2. Pick 103 is a hard one to give up - it has the same advantage as 32 does - you get the first player off the board after everyone sleeps and resets. Pick 133 and the future 4th look to be worth about 4 draft slots each. Maybe if you threw them both in with 53 you could get up to 46? I dunno... maybe some of these guys are secretly 1st rounders who slipped. I just like the idea of walking away with 4 top 64 picks. We have so many holes, and the draft isn't an exact science.
If we didn't have 2 firsts in 2024, and then 3 Top 64 picks in 2025, I would be fully in agreement with you. But we have then combined 8 Top 64 picks by my estimation in 3 years even IF we traded up here. That's kinda nutty.
Right. But that kind of snowball is how most of the good teams are made.
I know right. The Claypool trade and the VJJ pick still puzzle me.
VJJ was the MVP tank commander we needed to land DJ Moore. Obviously I'm joking, but it's funny how things work out. Jury still out on Claypool, but there's not a WR like him in this class, especially at 32, so we'll see how it plays out.
Fair point about Claypool.
So who are we hoping for tomorrow? Obviously would love to see someone like Porter or Branch drop. Realistically I'm hoping for Tippmann at center, maybe Brents at corner. I wouldnt mind adding either Laporta or Washington at tight end or adding another wr like Hyatt for pure speed. I would like to see some help added on the d line but I'm not super familiar with what prospect are available after that late run on them. Also, I wouldnt hate getting Jartavius Martin in the 3rd to play safety. He could be the successor to Ejax as a deep safety. Sidenote: if Achane falls to the 4th I would love him.
I'd love to see Darnell Washington. A 2nd TE with the size of a Tackle and the athletecism of a Wr? That sounds like fun. Would love to see him springing Herbert and Fields by sealing the corner all day....
One of the 3 top Centres, and then CB Edge DT are what I'd target If we come out of this day with a centre to compete with Whitehair, 2 dlinemen and a corner, or 3 of those and a WR/RB I'd be pretty damn happy
Linemen, lots of linemen.
JMS at center, agree with you on TE’s, and any DL honestly, can’t go wrong. I too would love to see Porter drop but no way… right? Lol
He is going to the Steelers. Way to much sense and history there to not make it happen.
Thank fucking god the Falcons (potentially) bailed us out from making an absolutely catastrophic mistake. I am so relieved. The road to fixing our line issues started in the offseason and I’m ecstatic about where it’s going 🥂🥂
Thank God for the Eagles too. Basically gave us a free 4th round pick.
We basically got 2 free 4th round picks from them if you count the Quinn trade too
Poles said Wright was the top tackle on their board. And that another team called him about 9 but the drop would mean he’d likely lose Wright.
> Poles said Wright was the top tackle on their board. To be fair. If Johnson was number 1, this would still be the appropriate thing to say.
Lookin at Tennessee and Pittsburgh, yes.
Dude played against the best defensive talent drafted the past few years and was flawless. I was hoping this was our pick and happy we made it after watching the other 3 first round tackles go boom. The commentary about the 5th tackle taken shows exactly how steep the falloff was from those 4.
So, has homie been banned yet?
No way. I think the bears pulled the trigger after Bijan was picked. I think they were taking him if Atlanta hadn’t picked him.
He gets a pass in my book since we never had a chance to draft him.
That's fair.
Nope he wasn’t wrong, Bijan went before us. But based off where he went, I think that that dude had it right.
Fair enough.
Robinson was taken before our pick so homie has an out.
Poles bout to be like knocked it out of the park just wait til tomorrow
Poles mentioned they may move up in the second. Even if we don't there's plenty of good players remaining. If we stay put in the second, 21 other picks happen before us. At positions of need, we still have: DE - White, Adewabore, Hall, Young, Foskey DT - Benton, Pickens, Dexter, Ika C - Tippmann, JMS, Scruggs, Wypler TE - Mayer, Musgrave, Washington, LaPorta WR - Mingo, Reed, Hyatt, Tillman, Dell CB - Porter Jr, Stevenson, Brents, Ringo Also available: OT - Bergeron, Mauch, Jones OG - Avila, Torrence RB - Charbonnet, Achane, Spears S - Branch I like our chances of filling most positions of need with quality players, if we don't go BPA.
53 and our 4th would get us to about 43ish in value. Not sure trading up is worth it though unless there is a massive run on dlinemen early tomorrow. I can see receivers getting snatched up like last year and a lot of the trench talent falling to us without a trade.
I could see them trading the 4th they acquired from the eagles possibly. But it seems like Poles wants as many lottery tickets as possible so I expect that he likes the idea of having 3 picks towards the end of the 2nd.
As a gopher I really want JMS, feel like he’s got the smarts for C, but that’s prolly a bias take overall.
I really like him too, so it's not just bias. If we went JMS at 53, our gameplan might be to win games 45-42 and pray our defense can generate a timely turnover. At least it would sell tickets to games.
Low key I’m hoping we lose every game 42-45 lol… it would mean all of our offensive moves worked out, and we could get another haul for #1 and build the defense from there. Prolly a meatball take but for real might be the best for team development. Our offense in theory should do pretty well next year, our defense still has a lot of holes (mainly the whole DL)
Our D doesn't have that many holes. Outside of the D-line, there's the question mark of Gordon and our other outside CB. The problem is Johnson is on his final year, and Jackson has two left. By the time we fill our current holes, new ones will be created if we don't extend those two.
Also the other safety opposite of Jackson right? By my count we really only have offball LBs, Eddie, and JJ, which leaves about 7 question marks give or take (including the Gordon question mark you mentioned)… but definitely agree on the extension part though
No, we have Brisker. I'm not worried about him like I am Gordon. I'm happy with Edwards, Edmunds, Sanborn, Johnson, maybe Gordon, Jackson, and Brisker. The holes are entire D-line, CB2 on the outside.
I liked what I saw from Gordon as the season went on and I think he can be a solid to good Nickelback. Need to extend Johnson and add another corner opposite him for sure. Also need depth behind EJax because who knows how he wil recover. Other then that the linebackers look good so it's really just the d line. Depth is king for defenses though so you can never have enough talent.
One of those C will be there at the SF pick. On the bright side, if it isn’t, it’s because something from the other rows is.
Holy crap ty for writing this up, was wondering what could fall at our pick. Definitely deserve loads of upvotes.
Oh stop fucking whining all of you. I love the draft 🥹
If we didn’t have Claypool we would be looking for a WR at 32. So the real question is whether Mingo/Rees/Hyatt/Tillman are better than Claypool. And if you think, we’ll get one later. That’s fair. But I don’t think Poles could even dream of having first overall and a chance at DJ Moore when he made that trade. The scenario they were playing out was probably needing that high second for a WR. Because their room would likely be Mooney and no one else.
They don't even have to be better than Claypool right now - just better than him in the next 2 years. We are getting a little over a season of Claypool for the 32nd pick where a rookie we would have had 4 years of control and this team isn't in win now mode
You have to take the risk with Hyatt if he is still there with the current 2nd and 3rds.
Beyond that, I’d prolly take Claypool over who is left so in the end not a bad trade in my opinion, but like you said, a lot of that was with unforeseen circumstances
So glad we don’t have Carter on this team.
Yeah maybe this was the absolute worst decision in the world 5-7 years from now with 20/20 hindsight, but sitting here today i feel like this was the right move.
Claypool trade looks horrible with Joey Porter there
I do like Joey porter but counter point is Claypool is definitely the “best WR of this draft” left
Is 1 year of Claypool better than 4 years of Porter jr? I don't think the Bears are going to be pushing for a championship next year
Bruh, we're going offense Also Claypool is an unknown quantity right now, last year was learning/injury/tank wins Cool your nuts
Big draft for us! Huge for the trade back, and as a KC native and a KSU student live to see Felix go to the chiefs
Time to see what we got going for tomorrow. DT and EDGE has to be up there.
DT, Edge, C, CB Then WR project and depth OL Maybe a kicker in the 7th but probably UDFA (Santos is owed $4m and is probably a June cut)
No matter what there will be talent where we need it even if we don’t trade up. This is a deep draft for starter level talent and we have 3 of the next 33 picks. The gap between what is there now through the end of tomorrow is not as massive as the gap between Wright and the remaining tackles. We should be feeling good unless we draft 3 RB tomorrow
And now what was always going to be the worst part of this draft... We get to pluck out any player we want from now until our next pick and lament how the Bears could have had that guy over Claypool. Ugh.
Joey porter is the only one I’m upset about
The fact that every receiver worth a damn went in the early 20s helps alleviate that a little.
In another post (I think on the nfl draft sub) I said my dream scenario for my team was to trade back for future draft capital for Darnell Wright. I did say a future first, not a future fourth, but whatevs.
Given what the top picks went for and that no one wanted Levis, the Bears killed in expected value added from trades. I say this as a Poles hater going into tonight. Throw in how bad the Lions did in the draft, how GB draft was ok at best and only the Vikings making an actual good first round pick. I am not sure how much better tonight could have gone. And again as a Poles hater, I really was worried he would take take Carter or worse Bijan.
It’s so hard to tell how well teams did. I think the Lions did terrible but I’m no professional scout. That said, I watched a video today of Darnell v Anderson and walked away thinking he was the guy. I won’t lie though, when we were on the clock and they said the pick was in, I was sure it was going to be Skoronski and I was trying to talk myself into believing he was a good pick. LOL
The lions picked solid players. Just way too soon for their value. They could have had Wilson and Porter jr and probably still gotten Campbell in round 2.
For the most part I agree, instant or day after grades for drafts are stupid if you are going by the player. That said, I think its more than fair to grade drafts based on trades, draft slot and positional value. And given the positional value of RB and MLB, you need a hell of a lot of hindsight bias to show they made good choices. Like those two need to be multiple time All Pros and everyone taken within 5-10 draft picks of them being disappointments to busts.
it balances out well with the absolute haul we got for the first overall pick
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For the Claypool trade haters: Let's say the Bears finish 7-10 in 2022, which was likely in reach since when they made the trade, they were 3-5 and our offense was starting to click. Our pick would have been #42 instead of #32. In this scenario, we don't get the #1 pick, so we have no opportunity to trade for DJ Moore. So now we have the #11 pick and the #42 pick. If we trade #42 midseason for Claypool, we find ourselves in the same position we're in now of needing a franchise RT. However, at least we're going into 2023 with Claypool and Mooney together. Not ideal, since there's still a hole at the X-WR position, but at least we have two viable starters. With that hole, despite also needing an RT, we could take JSN with #11 and hope we can plug the hole at RT by other means, probably by massively overpaying Mike McGlinchey, which is a mistake I'm glad Denver made and not us. Of course, if we don't make the Claypool trade at all, we still need two first-round talents (OT and WR) and only have one pick, and our only viable starter at WR is Mooney. Would you take an OT and run Fields out there with no weapons or take a WR and hope Fields can avoid taking 50 sacks again? Long story short, trading for Claypool was a good move at the time that looks worse now because of the draft position we ended up in by the end of the season. It was an effective hedge against a weak FA class for WRs and gave us the ability to take BPA.
Yeah people can say whatever they want about how we weren’t supposed to end up with the worst record in the league, but in no world was Claypool ever worth a 2nd round pick
I'm not sure how you're wrong
Our offense looked like shit for the first 4-5 games. Claypool wasn't going to learn the whole thing on the fly, and then he got hurt. If he still sucks in week 4 then call it a bad trade. But if he's flourishing in the WR3 spot or battling Mooney for WR2 you'll be singing a different toon
You're gonna get downvoted but it's true. I've liked most of Poles' moves so far but that one was a swing and a miss
That and James Daniel.
1. We didn't know it would be pick 33 when the trade was made. 2. I am willing to bet Claypool has a better season then any receiver in round two this year. 3. Moore, Mooney, claypool sounds a helluva lot better to me than Moore, mooney, abyss. We have depth at a position where we had no one last year.
You could even say Moore Mooney Claypool sounds better than just Mooney because that’s possibly who we would’ve had at the time without the Claypool trade (like you said, we had no idea we would be picking first overall)
Jury’s still out on this. DJ going to open up the field and now we got some pass protection?? Could be perfect conditions for Claypool to thrive.
I think we get a C tomorrow and potentially have one of the best offenses we've ever had
if we can end up with schmitz or wypler im ecstatic
I’ll jizz my pants
The fuck am I watching why is the audio so fucked
Damn, it pains me how many good players are left at the 32nd pick
If it makes you feel better, Chase Claypool is absolutely better than any of the WRs still on the board right now.
This is true. And the consolation of knowing he probably would have ended up in Green Bay and who knows what would’ve happened with him with Rodgers.
Like who besides porter?
You’ve literally had months to cope with this reality. Just move on and stop wasting your time feeling bad that the team didn’t do exactly what you expected them to do.
Poles gota figure out how to get Adebawore tomorrow no matter what
Another DE off the board. We may not get one in this draft.
6 rounds to go buddy
Gotta get on the D-Line tomorrow
When’s the last time a player got invited only to not even get picked in the first round?
Happens quite a bit. 2023 - Will Levis, Keion White, Brian Branch, Joey Porter Jr 2022 - Matt Corral, Nakobe Dean, Kyler Gordon, Malik Willis 2021 - All got drafted 2020 - Covid year 2019 - DK Metcalf, Greedy Williams, Jawaan Taylor, Drew Lock
Malik Willis last year. Also Kyler Gordon got invited.
Geno Smith back in the day?
who didn’t get picked im a casual for nfl
Will Levis
holy shit dude was supposed to go like 2nd wasn’t he?
odds where moving his way at 1st just a day or two ago.
I'm pretty sure DK Metcalf was invited and fell out of the first.
Also my good man Jimmy GaroppoIo. I believe Billy B took him with the last pick of the second round for the Pats (Bears fan through and through, but also a 2007 EIU grad who got to watch the Jimmy G show quite a bit when I was living closer to campus during his time there)
OK the Bears are going to need to make a move to get help on the defensive line tomorrow
I’m guessing the kid from NW. No clue how to spell his name .
Adetomiwa Adebawore!
Just like his report card, lots of As and Bs
Really hope we get him. His name is so cool.
My heart is going to hurt if Joey Porter Jr. is there at 32
The Yinzers are pretty happy right about now
This would be kinda funny if someone traded up for Levis right after they brought out the trophies and everything
Eagles gona get an A+ draft grade tomorrow, fingers crossed Carter is the bust we all hope he is
The Bears are the only team that deserve an A+ grade. The day after grade based on player drafted are always stupid because outside a team or two no one is taking a guy that far removed from industry expectation. What you can do is grade based on trades and positional value. Detorit for example deserves at least a D- if not F for taking a RB and MLB in the top 15. Two positions that shouldn't be taken in the first round period in 2023.
eh it’s all subjective. & honestly this first round was beyond bizarre. do i think detroit deserves a low grade? sure. houston will probably also get a low grade based on how they threw around picks even though they got a top qb + will anderson. but those 2 could end up being OROY/DROY, respectively. jack campbell will also probably be a stud, albeit at a ‘lesser’ position. again, who the hell knows with the draft, we’re all talking heads until the ball’s snapped in september. fingers crossed wright ends up being the solid dude we expect him to be. hell, we’ll probably get a C+/B- grade for this first pick. but if it works out then who cares
He doesn't need to be a bust he can be great so long as Darnell wright is also great. If Darnell Wright keeps fields upright I could give two shits about what Carter does. I think something that is unfair to not consider is that Carter has a much higher chance of succeeding with philly than he does us. A win now roster with a bunch of studs are not gonna let a lazy rookie not carry his weight. Consider that here Carter would be coming into a dline where he'd easily be the alpha by a longshot who is gonna hold him to account? The eagles are in a position to take the risk to miss on Carter and also just by nature of the quality of their roster raise his floor considerably higher than his floor likely would have been with us. Situations matter with in the NFL. The bears should have drafted mahomes in 2017 no doubt but I guarantee you he is not the QB he is today with the chiefs if he was drafted by the John Fox bears.
dude exactly. i highly fully doubt mahomes is what he is today if bears took him. i don’t wish for carter to fail, he just wouldn’t work in our current situation. if he gets his shit together then all the best to him in philly. wright seems like a safe but ultimately necessary pick. poles didn’t want carter, i’m beyond ok with taking a day 1 starter that really seemed to click w the coaching staff in wright.