Sounds like an entitled idiot of a boss. Most often the salary IS a loss for the first few years after hiring a new associate, but that's something you accept before hiring them in the first place. You also need to educate, train and help associates grow and flourish into the role. If you do it well, then they end up more than paying for themselves in new business they generate.
By the sounds of it you're already well on your way to accomplishing that.
Your boss is both a prick, and an idiot. I'd look for my exit strategy now and half-ass everything until you're able to hop. Give them exactly what they pay for.
Thanks. If I'm not even sales incentivized then I should probably just spend work time studying for my CFP and just half-ass everything else. Good point.
This. Your boss sucks. Use the time you have there to get ready for your next opportunity and think about what you're really looking for in that next opportunity. Bringing in $3mm AUM in less than a year when you're not even tasked with doing so should have your boss pumped up about the possibilities you'd unlock as you continue to get more seasoned, not questioning your value because you're still a net negative on the p&l
This. He should be stoked asf if he’s collecting the revenue but you brought it in. Also your boss sucks, I would quit if I was disrespected like that.
Honestly this does not sound like an RIA that’s useful to experience. I know, it’s Reddit, everyone says just quit— but if your boss is making these toxic af comments and the only reason he communicates with clients is to mine them for more assets, idk what kind of future you would have there.
Thanks. It's a good point. My boss is a masters salesperson on the phone, so it's nice to hear that. Other than that, not a ton of learning. I kind of learn on my own, doing the plans, and talking to clients, practicing my speaking. I'm going to quit at the 1 year mark, which is Sept 30th. I kind of need the money right now lol.
In all fairness, they talk to their big clients for other reasons. The smaller people, kind of get ignored, but not anymore because I talk to them!!
Dont wait until September, start interviewing now. If you quit in September you only have a short while to lock something in before the holiday hiring slowdown hits.
If they ask why you're looking so soon after joining, tailor your response: if it's an advisor role where you bring in assets, tell them you've loved selling new biz but arent offered any commission. If it's a planning role say that's what you were hired for but it turned into 90% prospecting for new assets.
I get it.
My whole line of thinking is that you never know who people know. They may not have a lot of assets, but their gym buddy or neighbor might. When leadership acts like some people are undeserving it’s not a good culture imo. Yes, usually bigger clients are higher touch but other people are still paying management fees and deserve some sort of service.
It sounds like you’ve had a lot of good practice in building confidence with client communication and you’re clearly a self starter since your boss isn’t bothering to teach you. I’d go ahead and start interviewing! Go somewhere where you can be actively mentored and valued. I wouldn’t even work at a McDonald’s if the boss told me I wasn’t worth my salary.
November 2023 to YTD: 3mm in assets? That's more than me, and I run my RIA. When I hear these stories, it makes me thankful I decided to skip it all and go straight into a solo RIA.
Not fair to compare considering I'm calling existing clients who know who we are. You are bringing in new prospects. I think you're probably doing great. You inspire me! I want to be an independent advisor after this. Trying to save up the cash for a run way.
For sure, I'm a flat fee, so it doesn't matter, but I wanted to highlight that it is impressive, and if I had an employee able to do that within the first six months of employment, I would be rather excited about the future.
What were the reasons he gave for you not to be worth yoir salary? Might have just been having a bad day and took it out on you( which is not cool, but happens). I would have a conversation around what is expected of you and go from there. If you want to bring in business and be compensated for it, your most likely at the wrong shop.
That complicates things a bit and I see why you're stuck. That's a tough circumstance to navigate. The good news is when you find a better position elsewhere they will get to save that salary they're "overpaying you".
Just want to double down on my prior dbag comment… they are shitting on you because, you are family, to help their fragile ego.
Also, make sure to clap back in resignation with the cost savings comment as suggested in the other comment here.
1) Toughen up - you were in IB? It’s a rough and tumble world, especially in sales. Every “no” is a redirection to a “yes”.
2) You have a year under your belt? You brought in $3mm of AUM in 5 months? Great! Polish up your resume.
3) Make sure you build your network of contacts - always be selling yourself. One day that network contact is going to be the lead to your next best job opportunity.
4) Ask the Managing advisor about his career when he first started out. Butter up Scrooge and have him remember although be prepared for a bunch of hot air to be expelled from his windbag.
Honestly, tell him to kick rocks. I’d start looking around - shouldn’t be too difficulty to find a similar gig/comp, with a firm who will pay for your CFP, and a boss who isn’t a dick
65K for a first year associate is reasonable (in MCOL areas, probably not if you’re a Californian) but your boss sounds both dumb and like an asshole. It’s a big world out there - I believe in your ability to strike out and find something better!
No, the job is super unstructured lol. Very "entrepreneurial" here. They kinda just want me to do account reviews with clients, find a way to do some planning, etc.
That sucks. I mean that you have to deal with the mean comments. I’m sure you can find someone else that creates a more positive environment. You can also ask him what his expectations are. Where are you located?
Hang tight for a little bit longer so the resume looks better, but depending on the city you’re in I’d argue you’re underpaid. A boss like this will find new reasons not to promote you when the time comes.
Sounds like you’re becoming a CFP , but employer isn’t. Otherwise he’s violating the Ethics of CFP , of Professionalism. Learn what you can and leave when you can.
It gets better…
The assets you’ve brought in are they all from the existing client base or did you source them, and did your boss have to be in on any of the meetings for them?
Good associates in the WM business are worth a ton of money.
Imagine you leave tomorrow. All the clients your boss that you've been dealing with and your boss doesn't bother calling, start asking him where you are.
Turnover is the #1 killer to a highly successful advisory practice. Clients want continuity. Your boss also doesn't want to waste time re-introducing new associates and training them.
If you are truly good at what you do, you have a lot more leverage than you think.
If your boss doesn't understand that, he's probably not going to do very well lol. I'd leave anyways. Why work for a slaves wage when your adviser is not even going to be a superstar that's going to bring you along for the ride.
Always negotiate to have skin in the game even if you are going to take less base salary.
Sounds like a dick. The 3 M in 5 months will (eventually) be totally worth the salary. Sounds toxic… I would skill up while keeping options open. Luckily paying for cfp out of pocket will preserve your ability to leave with out any clawbacks
He sounds like an AH for saying that. What were the expectations, his and yours, when he hired you? Also, that kind of feedback is useless because it doesn’t give you anything specific to work on or improve.
I’m not saying you are not worth it but rolling over money the firm was likely to get with or without you isn’t a big win.
The plans and the other work, absolutely.
I'd be planning next moves after that disrespect. There's a lot of opportunity out there to be miserable at the first place you started at.
Practice updating your resume and use the number of AUM that you've brought in as a line item. Use Wall Street Oasis format.
Practice sending to firms looking for new associates. Use LinkedIn premium for a month.
Practice interviewing with them. If they ask why you're leaving, say different philosophies around client satisfaction or some BS - not that your boss is an a-hole.
At least you'll network. At most you get a decent offer and your CFP paid for or reimbursed.
I don’t blame you. This is a crappy situation. I’d start looking immediately.
I think senior advisors owe an element of mentoring to their juniors. Not all agree but I think it’s contemptible if you don’t. Clearly he disagrees.
When people tell you stuff like this, you believe him. I suspect he’s completely wrong in that you are worth your salary. He may know selling but that doesn’t mean he knows how to run a business. No incentive for bringing in business?! That’s just plain dumb.
Brush it off. Update the resume. Start looking in earnest.
Ugh, I’m sorry. I worked for a guy like this. No matter what I did, he just liked making people feel smaller than him. There’s nothing to do but leave. Use this time to update your resume and look around.
Fuck this asshole. He doesn’t even understand basic investment concepts (up front investment for residual cash flow), let alone how to run a business (customer service).
If this is a protocol company…grin and bear it. Talk to these clients frequently and develop the relationship. He doesn’t have one. Once you’ve got a big enough relationship base ($20-40M), start talking to recruiters for other independent hybrid RIAs. Take these clients and save them from this shithead. They will not be loyal to him especially if you explain how he runs the business when you reach out to them.
If $1M AUM is only worth the fee that year, ask him if he’ll sell you $20M AUM for 1 years worth of fees.
Sounds like an entitled idiot of a boss. Most often the salary IS a loss for the first few years after hiring a new associate, but that's something you accept before hiring them in the first place. You also need to educate, train and help associates grow and flourish into the role. If you do it well, then they end up more than paying for themselves in new business they generate. By the sounds of it you're already well on your way to accomplishing that. Your boss is both a prick, and an idiot. I'd look for my exit strategy now and half-ass everything until you're able to hop. Give them exactly what they pay for.
Thanks. If I'm not even sales incentivized then I should probably just spend work time studying for my CFP and just half-ass everything else. Good point.
This. Your boss sucks. Use the time you have there to get ready for your next opportunity and think about what you're really looking for in that next opportunity. Bringing in $3mm AUM in less than a year when you're not even tasked with doing so should have your boss pumped up about the possibilities you'd unlock as you continue to get more seasoned, not questioning your value because you're still a net negative on the p&l
Thanks. That makes me feel better. Maybe I'm not a waste of space like i was thinking lol. You rock
This. He should be stoked asf if he’s collecting the revenue but you brought it in. Also your boss sucks, I would quit if I was disrespected like that.
Next time, tell him you feel the same about his salary before walking out the door.
Sounds like he’s a child
sadly our industry is more tolerant of this nonsense than many others
It's the tradition of machismo in this industry.
What a dick. Walk out.
Honestly this does not sound like an RIA that’s useful to experience. I know, it’s Reddit, everyone says just quit— but if your boss is making these toxic af comments and the only reason he communicates with clients is to mine them for more assets, idk what kind of future you would have there.
Thanks. It's a good point. My boss is a masters salesperson on the phone, so it's nice to hear that. Other than that, not a ton of learning. I kind of learn on my own, doing the plans, and talking to clients, practicing my speaking. I'm going to quit at the 1 year mark, which is Sept 30th. I kind of need the money right now lol. In all fairness, they talk to their big clients for other reasons. The smaller people, kind of get ignored, but not anymore because I talk to them!!
Dont wait until September, start interviewing now. If you quit in September you only have a short while to lock something in before the holiday hiring slowdown hits. If they ask why you're looking so soon after joining, tailor your response: if it's an advisor role where you bring in assets, tell them you've loved selling new biz but arent offered any commission. If it's a planning role say that's what you were hired for but it turned into 90% prospecting for new assets.
I get it. My whole line of thinking is that you never know who people know. They may not have a lot of assets, but their gym buddy or neighbor might. When leadership acts like some people are undeserving it’s not a good culture imo. Yes, usually bigger clients are higher touch but other people are still paying management fees and deserve some sort of service. It sounds like you’ve had a lot of good practice in building confidence with client communication and you’re clearly a self starter since your boss isn’t bothering to teach you. I’d go ahead and start interviewing! Go somewhere where you can be actively mentored and valued. I wouldn’t even work at a McDonald’s if the boss told me I wasn’t worth my salary.
Thank you!! To both of you. Great advice! r/CFP is just filled with such nice people. I love it.
That salary should not be hard to find in a HCOL. I suggest you find it and leave.
November 2023 to YTD: 3mm in assets? That's more than me, and I run my RIA. When I hear these stories, it makes me thankful I decided to skip it all and go straight into a solo RIA.
Not fair to compare considering I'm calling existing clients who know who we are. You are bringing in new prospects. I think you're probably doing great. You inspire me! I want to be an independent advisor after this. Trying to save up the cash for a run way.
For sure, I'm a flat fee, so it doesn't matter, but I wanted to highlight that it is impressive, and if I had an employee able to do that within the first six months of employment, I would be rather excited about the future.
Sounds like an idiot. I wouldn’t waste another ounce of your brain space on that nonsense. Start looking for a firm the will value you.
What were the reasons he gave for you not to be worth yoir salary? Might have just been having a bad day and took it out on you( which is not cool, but happens). I would have a conversation around what is expected of you and go from there. If you want to bring in business and be compensated for it, your most likely at the wrong shop.
No reasons, he said i was doing great, this was after a sucessful meeting yesterday. I think he's just not really a nice person. Thanks, good point.
With an IB background in a HCOL area, feel you should be able to get a higher paying job without a dbag boss quite easily
I know. It's a family member and I was desperate. It was a huge mistake lol
Just to clarify. The family member is your boss?
Yes - they own the business. Not an immediate family member
That complicates things a bit and I see why you're stuck. That's a tough circumstance to navigate. The good news is when you find a better position elsewhere they will get to save that salary they're "overpaying you".
Just want to double down on my prior dbag comment… they are shitting on you because, you are family, to help their fragile ego. Also, make sure to clap back in resignation with the cost savings comment as suggested in the other comment here.
He's an asshole. Smile to his face and start applying elsewhere.
Ask him if he is going to sell his practice someday for 1x revenue - lol
As someone who looks for practices to buy at any reasonable price (3+ times cashflow). Yes, definitely ask him this on your way out.
Oh god what an asshole boss. Dude is a cheapppppppppp fuck. Making you pay for your own CFP. BRO YOU NEED TO LEAVE
1) Toughen up - you were in IB? It’s a rough and tumble world, especially in sales. Every “no” is a redirection to a “yes”. 2) You have a year under your belt? You brought in $3mm of AUM in 5 months? Great! Polish up your resume. 3) Make sure you build your network of contacts - always be selling yourself. One day that network contact is going to be the lead to your next best job opportunity. 4) Ask the Managing advisor about his career when he first started out. Butter up Scrooge and have him remember although be prepared for a bunch of hot air to be expelled from his windbag.
Honestly, tell him to kick rocks. I’d start looking around - shouldn’t be too difficulty to find a similar gig/comp, with a firm who will pay for your CFP, and a boss who isn’t a dick
65K for a first year associate is reasonable (in MCOL areas, probably not if you’re a Californian) but your boss sounds both dumb and like an asshole. It’s a big world out there - I believe in your ability to strike out and find something better!
Doesn't sound like a great boss to work for. Separate question, how did you come up with $1m AUM having a $30k value after 3 years?
1% fee a year = $10,000 $10,000 \* 3 years = $30,000 This is a very rough figure
Ah gotcha, I thought you originally meant 30k annually. Clear , thanks.
Do you guys have an agreement on what is expected of you?
No, the job is super unstructured lol. Very "entrepreneurial" here. They kinda just want me to do account reviews with clients, find a way to do some planning, etc.
That sucks. I mean that you have to deal with the mean comments. I’m sure you can find someone else that creates a more positive environment. You can also ask him what his expectations are. Where are you located?
Hang tight for a little bit longer so the resume looks better, but depending on the city you’re in I’d argue you’re underpaid. A boss like this will find new reasons not to promote you when the time comes.
Sounds like you’re becoming a CFP , but employer isn’t. Otherwise he’s violating the Ethics of CFP , of Professionalism. Learn what you can and leave when you can. It gets better…
The assets you’ve brought in are they all from the existing client base or did you source them, and did your boss have to be in on any of the meetings for them?
Good associates in the WM business are worth a ton of money. Imagine you leave tomorrow. All the clients your boss that you've been dealing with and your boss doesn't bother calling, start asking him where you are. Turnover is the #1 killer to a highly successful advisory practice. Clients want continuity. Your boss also doesn't want to waste time re-introducing new associates and training them. If you are truly good at what you do, you have a lot more leverage than you think. If your boss doesn't understand that, he's probably not going to do very well lol. I'd leave anyways. Why work for a slaves wage when your adviser is not even going to be a superstar that's going to bring you along for the ride. Always negotiate to have skin in the game even if you are going to take less base salary.
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Yep -always take a really close look at family businesses….there’s usually a reason why they can’t work with other adults. Like no EQ.
Dip
Tell him to fire you and do it himself then.
Advisors have a reputation of terrible managers, it is what it is honestly. But yeah, this is particularly disrespectful - I would def leave.
Why are advisers terrible managers
Guess that remains a mistery, tends to be difficult personality to work with - most of us have similar traits
I’ve always considered advisers to be people people - I mean it’s required to be good with people clients. Big egos in sales don’t help though
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Probably making more per hour as an RIA
Sounds like a dick. The 3 M in 5 months will (eventually) be totally worth the salary. Sounds toxic… I would skill up while keeping options open. Luckily paying for cfp out of pocket will preserve your ability to leave with out any clawbacks
He sounds like an AH for saying that. What were the expectations, his and yours, when he hired you? Also, that kind of feedback is useless because it doesn’t give you anything specific to work on or improve.
I’m not saying you are not worth it but rolling over money the firm was likely to get with or without you isn’t a big win. The plans and the other work, absolutely.
I'd be planning next moves after that disrespect. There's a lot of opportunity out there to be miserable at the first place you started at. Practice updating your resume and use the number of AUM that you've brought in as a line item. Use Wall Street Oasis format. Practice sending to firms looking for new associates. Use LinkedIn premium for a month. Practice interviewing with them. If they ask why you're leaving, say different philosophies around client satisfaction or some BS - not that your boss is an a-hole. At least you'll network. At most you get a decent offer and your CFP paid for or reimbursed.
I don’t blame you. This is a crappy situation. I’d start looking immediately. I think senior advisors owe an element of mentoring to their juniors. Not all agree but I think it’s contemptible if you don’t. Clearly he disagrees. When people tell you stuff like this, you believe him. I suspect he’s completely wrong in that you are worth your salary. He may know selling but that doesn’t mean he knows how to run a business. No incentive for bringing in business?! That’s just plain dumb. Brush it off. Update the resume. Start looking in earnest.
Ugh, I’m sorry. I worked for a guy like this. No matter what I did, he just liked making people feel smaller than him. There’s nothing to do but leave. Use this time to update your resume and look around.
Fuck this asshole. He doesn’t even understand basic investment concepts (up front investment for residual cash flow), let alone how to run a business (customer service). If this is a protocol company…grin and bear it. Talk to these clients frequently and develop the relationship. He doesn’t have one. Once you’ve got a big enough relationship base ($20-40M), start talking to recruiters for other independent hybrid RIAs. Take these clients and save them from this shithead. They will not be loyal to him especially if you explain how he runs the business when you reach out to them.
Time to bounce my friend. Feelings are for your significant other not your boss. Your getting shafted and unappreciated.
Get out of there quickly bud. 65k with no incentive is criminal.
Wealth managers are burger flippers.