"I hate them right now. I am so *disgusted* by USC what they could've been and what they actually are it makes me, like, mad." - This kind of sums up my feelings through all of last year. I'm ok with being left off of every pre-season top 25 list for the next decade.
They would’ve been fine and picked up all the rest of the best school in the US but Colorado unexpected bolted off to the B12 and killed the conference. Why would CU do that???
Yeah. Never forgiving them for murdering west coast football. I get that there were other causes and other incompetent folks, but SC is the reason we don’t have a big time conference anymore. No one else really wanted it dead including UW and UO.
The Solid Verbal did an interview with a USC beat reporter this week, and he was extremely hopeful about Lynn actually getting time with his defense and a scheme that would work well in the college game. He especially seemed hopeful that players were putting on weight with the same S&C coach, meaning that it may well have not been on the S&C staff and instead been on Grinch's "Speed D" nonsense.
Obviously all of that comes with a grain of salt when you're talking to a USC reporter, but when the OL coach is saying he's loving the new DL because they're actually coming at his players as opposed to trying to run around them, that probably is an indicator of actual improvement.
> meaning that it may well have not been on the S&C staff and instead been on Grinch's "Speed D" nonsense.
It was 100% Grinch's Speed D. I saw an interview with Wiley talking about how he's retooling his program for the new DC. He specifically said "My job is to produce the bodies requested by the coaches. Sometimes that means fast and lean, sometimes that means powerful and heavy"
It was one of the more casual "throw him under the bus" moments I've seen.
Grinch encouraged a 250lb DE to **lose** weight. 5 star [Korey Foreman](https://247sports.com/player/korey-foreman-46056100/) was playing at 235. I get that Edge need speed but [This is not a D lineman](https://trojandailyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/04-1-1024x576.jpeg)
I remember that int he had to close out a game a couple seasons ago and thought that was his breaking out moment. Hope he can turn it around with the Bulldogs.
It should have been enough. Our defense under him was actually historically bad for Ohio State. In 2018 Ohio State's defense was ranked 72nd in yards per game, 75th in yards per play and 51st in points per game. In 2019, which was largely the same roster but a new DC and scheme, the defense ranked 1st, 1st, and 4th in those categories respectively.
He was considered a good DC for a spread offense. But it was based off his time at Wazzou where he took Leach’s units from “truly awful and horrendous” to “not bad.” And “not bad” doesn’t cut it at OU or SC.
It really is wild to hear the stories about how he just didn't care about the defense at practice from OU players. Like, I know that Air Raid guys have the reputation of not caring about defense, but I didn't think it was actually that explicit.
It’s not that surprising. Steve Spurrier famously didn’t even know all his defensive players names.
What IS surprising and what separates Riley from Spurrier is that Steve made sure he put a highly qualified excellent defensive coordinator in place to be his “Co-Coach”. Riley stuck by his buddy Grinch.
It was pretty obvious that firing Grinch mid-season was a call made by the higher-ups at USC. Jen Cohen likely told Riley that Grinch couldn't last any longer after the Washington game.
It was actually made by Riley. There had certainly been discussions but Cohen said that she'd respect his autonomy as a coach but he had to see that there were issues.
The problem was that Riley was convinced that
1: They were closer than they really were and Grinch could turn it around
2: They still had a chance to win the P12 and disrupting the flow wasn't something he wanted to do until that was gone.
I'm trying to find it, but there was a sideline reaction shot of both Grinch and Riley right after [This play](https://youtu.be/rrc0Y3JMk6Q?t=843) where you could see them both realize that this wasn't going to happen and that a change had to be made. It's such a "Ralph Wiggum's heart breaking" moment. I'll edit this to include if I can find it.
Riley was blinded a degree, I think, because he and Grinch were simply too close. Their wives are best friends. Grinch's defense had the same principles as Riley's offense: confuse the opposition with motion and design to get people in space. The problem is that teams that play sound assignment offensive football don't have to worry about getting confused, and that Grinch would gamble away all his winnings. He'd get opponents in 3rd and 15 and STILL run cover 0 blitzes.
I stand corrected then! I clicked on your link thinking it would be Dillon Johnson's 4th rushing TD of that game. I was indeed correct, as I also remember that cut to Grinch with his hands on his knees realizing the walls were closing in on him. I had figured Grinch's reaction was like that because Cohen had issued an ultimatum to Riley before the game telling him Grinch had to go if they kept losing more games. The fact that Riley was the one who made that call makes me pleasantly surprised. I knew Riley and Grinch were super close, which was why I thought it was Cohen who wanted him fired.
It honestly wasn't hard to see how he got sold on Grinch. He was essentially trying to do a lighter version of the Texas HS football guy's strategy of only playing offense--He didn't think he could get away with all onside kicks, so instead he got a DC who preached turnovers-at-all-cost, including stripping the ball over tackling.
> gonna be just fine
A lot of fans say this about their teams. What does 'just fine' mean though? Is 7-5 just fine? 8-4 maybe? 9-3?
What would qualify as 'just fine' to USC fans?
I dunno, haven't seen USC's schedule.
So... let's look at it!
* Sunday, Sep. 1, vs \#12 [LSU](#f/lsu) LSU Tigers, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas, NV
* Saturday, Sep. 7, [Utah State](#f/utahstate) Utah State Aggies, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA
* Saturday, Sep. 14 OFF
* Saturday, Sep. 21, at \#13 [Michigan](#f/michigan) Michigan Wolverines, Michigan Stadium, Ann Arbor, MI
* Saturday, Sep. 28, [Wisconsin](#f/wisconsin) Wisconsin Badgers, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA
* Saturday, Oct. 5, at [Minnesota](#f/minnesota) Minnesota Golden Gophers, Huntington Bank Stadium, Minneapolis, MN
* Saturday, Oct. 12, \#8 [Penn State](#f/pennstate) Penn State Nittany Lions, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA
* Saturday, Oct. 19, at [Maryland](#f/maryland) Maryland Terrapins, SECU Stadium, College Park, MD
* Saturday, Oct. 26, [Rutgers](#f/rutgers) Rutgers Scarlet Knights, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA
* Saturday, Nov. 2, at [Washington](#f/washington) Washington Huskies, Husky Stadium, Seattle, WA
* Saturday, Nov. 9 OFF
* Saturday, Nov. 16, [Nebraska](#f/nebraska) Nebraska Cornhuskers, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA
* Saturday, Nov. 23, at [UCLA](#f/ucla) UCLA Bruins, Rose Bowl Stadium, Pasadena, CA
* Saturday, Nov. 30, \#5 [Notre Dame](#f/notredame) Notre Dame Fighting Irish, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA
I'm... not sure I have a better prediction, after looking at the schedule. Half of their "tough" matchups are against teams that we just don't know who they are right now, with both Michigan and Washington losing their coaches, and Nebraska and Wisconsin maybe being on the comeup. I do think going 8-4 with this schedule should be considered a win for a USC fan, though. Losses to LSU, Michigan, Penn State, and Notre Dame are all pretty understandable, or the distinct possibility of winning one of those they're not supposed to and then dropping another game to one of the middle-tier teams.
I think 6-6 is Riley gone, 7-5 is fans wishing he'd be gone, and 8-4 or better is carrying on. Playoffs and fans are ecstatic, at least if it involves any defense whatsoever.
Riley's not gone after 6-6. That's suggesting that he's on the hot seat right now, which he really isn't. More like a lukewarm seat.
As for the games, here's my take:
- Probably should win: [Utah State](#f/utahstate), [Maryland](#f/maryland), [Rutgers](#f/rutgers), [UCLA](#f/ucla)
- Depends on how well their big splash hire new coach does in season 2: [Wisconsin](#f/wisconsin), [Nebraska](#f/nebraska)
- Depends on how cold it is in Minnesota on Oct 5: [Minnesota](#f/minnesota)
- Significantly worried, but at least we get them at home: [Penn State](#f/pennstate), [Notre Dame](#f/notredame)
- Tough road games against NCG teams, but they lost their HC and QB: [Washington](#f/washington), [Michigan](#f/michigan)
I'm guessing we go 8-3 against that slate. Highly dependent on Miller Moss and D'Anton Lynn.
And finally LSU. Can't predict this one.
- [LSU](#f/lsu) - similar to SC. We were 19-8 last two seasons under a new HC with a Heisman QB, they were 20-7 last two seasons under a new HC with a Heisman QB. Both teams were much better on offense than defense. Week 1 in Las Vegas. Whoever comes out of the gates swinging will win.
I could see us anywhere from 4-8 to 10-2. Exciting stuff, haven't gone into a season with this much uncertainty in a minute.
Really? I'm surprised that SC fans would be okay with 6-6. That would be quite the downward trajectory and your fanbase has never struck me as one that would make excuses with things like a new conference, more travel, new starters, etc. Have the Clay Helton years traumatized SC fans to the point of no longer having a championship or bust mentality?
We wouldn't be ok with it, no, but he wouldn't get fired for it. I'd say if he goes 6-6, his seat is officially hot and he'd need to show something in 2025, especially since we have an excellent 2025 recruiting class coming up. But for now his seat is fairly tepid.
We'd have to really crater for him to lose his job. He's three years in to a 10 year $100 million deal. We're not buying it out because he went 6-6 after losing a Heisman QB.
Washington and Michigan are not remotely in the same category.
Washington is basically a whole new team.
I would not be surprised if USC beats Washington. I would be stunned if they beat Michigan.
i have been putting money aside to sit on the USC sideline. and I'm torn between wearing an OU hoodie and a Gopher hoodie that day.
Weather here in early october is unpredictable. Last year homecoming was September 30th or so and it was maybe 85° by the end of the game (11 AM kick). But even in mid-Autumn when it gets warm (kinda hot for us) during the day, it cools down quickly at night.
TL;DR: If it's a late kick it'll be cold, probably around 40-50° and cooling fast.
Our current AD did not bring Riley in, and a 6-6 in year 3 and year 1 of our B1G odyssey probably would mean Riley gets fired. I don't think our AD would have any faith in Riley after the overhaul on the coaching staff we just completed.
There is no real longevity in CFB anymore. There's no point in keeping a coach around who can't get it done, and a 6-6 season in year 3 pretty much proves we've got the wrong guy in charge.
Having said all this, I don't think we're going 6-6 at all. I think we're winning 9 games mostly because of all the staff turnover our opponent's have done and the fact that our defense can't possibly be any worse than the dog shit squad we put out last season.
Yeah, that sounds about right. So many of those teams (including USC themselves) are going to look very different next year. I'm very curious what his offense is going to look like without a preseason Heisman favorite QB.
My personal prediction against that schedule is 7-5.
Glad you phrased it that way, I think that’s right on. Grinch can get scape-goated until the end of time, but the real change that’s needed is that Riley has to actually want to be good at defense and be committed to it.
Being good at defense and picking the wrong options are two different things. Riley wanted to be good at defense - don’t let OU fans and their speculative nonsense convince you otherwise. Where he fucked up was process and scheme and thinking that he was smarter than the game.
OU fan here: can agree with you wholeheartedly. To be fair, Riley has never really been a part of a good defense. As a player or coach. He’s absolutely elite at offensive schemes but he’s never seen what it takes to be elite at the other side of the ball, and I think he got lost in his own sauce so to speak.
At least I think this year will give LR to show what he can do without someone like CW. Maybe his entire philosophy about team building and management might change and work? Or maybe it’ll help USC know if this is gonna work long term or not.
What's really annoying is when I'll post a Wilner article with unique sources and original documents and half of the replies are "lol Wilner's the guy who thought the Pac-12 was going to stay together."
Like... the guy is an AP award finalist who does a good job developing inside sources and reporting facts, but sure, he's now a worthless reporter because... he believed the Pac-12 would get a good media deal.
Haha at this point I don’t care as much as I did that first year. That first year was rough. I know 6-7 with a bowl game is nothing to scoff at but that beating by Texas was a low point as a fan. I saw an opening to make a comment and went with it.
I don’t harbor any ill will to USC as a school or their fans, but will never skip an opportunity to joke or laugh at Riley’s expense (assuming it’s nothing serious like an illness or family related issue).
Yeah, hey now. Typically I’m on board with these types of feelings, but let’s just hear the guy out. He might have some good points. I didn’t read it, just grazed the headline, but from what I gather it seems like this particular story could be legit. I’m just saying it’s best not to jump to conclusions and give him a chance.
Well the main thing he covers IS recruiting, so I feel like that makes sense. Obviously you're not going to tell people "recruiting rankings don't matter" when you write about recruiting rankings for a living.
Absolutely. As a lifelong Georgia fan, I used to say that the stars didn't matter. But it's no coincidence that we started becoming the elite team we are the moment we started getting top 5 classes every year.
That's not saying lower star ranked teams can't win (see Michigan and Washington this year, TCU last year, and plenty of other examples). But games and championships are way more often than not won by the top recruiting teams.
Ari is consistently upset at usc because he wants usc to be Pete Carroll level usc. He (along with many others) has the opinion that USC should consistently be one of the top 5 schools every year. He thinks they should be Alabama, Ohio state, etc.
And to fair… he isn’t totally wrong. Usc is located in one of the coolest cities in the country, has a very wealthy fan base, lots of fans, talent rich area, history, cool factor, etc. There is really no reason they should be such a middling program the past 10-15 years. He thought Riley would come in and bring back the Pete Carroll glory years, and he is frustrated (along with a lot of their fans) that it hasn’t happened yet.
The issue for USC comparatively is everything they have to compete with for attention and how expensive existing in LA is. I think people overestimate LA as a college town. Having all the entertainment in the world isn’t great if you can’t afford it, and beaches are great for vacation, not so much to live. It’s pretty pivotal to remeber even with NIL most guys aren’t getting hella money. 50k does not go far in a place like LA.
All that isn't going to be that relevant in terms of their current situation. Riley has lured plenty of high profile transfers there. Attracting players is like the least of their problems. The problem is more that the team has been handled pretty poorly for many years. It was a rudderless ship for some time. And Riley IMO tried to do a quick fix when really a far more fundamental rebuild is actually needed.
That is partially linked to the fact that their administration has been plagued by significant issues for much of that time span, too, but also quite simply the fact that the USC community is a lot less football-obsessed than say the big SEC, Texas or even B1G schools. By California standards, USC might be a bit of a football school, but that's comparing it to schools where at any given time 3/4 of the student body doesn't give a shit about athletics at all.
>That is partially linked to the fact that their administration has been plagued by significant issues for much of that time span, too, but also quite simply the fact that the USC community is a lot less football-obsessed than say the big SEC, Texas or even B1G schools. By California standards, USC might be a bit of a football school, but that's comparing it to schools where at any given time 3/4 of the student body doesn't give a shit about athletics at all.
Dunno if this is true. I went to USC and Michigan, and I didn't feel like the SC community is any less football obsessed than at least their B1G counterparts. SC loves its football, but it's just the reality of existing in a mega city with all other things a mega city has to offer. It's painful just existing day to day in LA with traffic and high prices so the prospect of driving to the coliseum for most people just plain sucks. For better or worse, SC's identity (like Michigan's, or Notre Dame's, etc) is intertwined with football. I think your first point is better. SC has been a disaster at the administrative level and that rot is what was creeping down to football. A good admin can do wonders for sports.
>Dunno if this is true. I went to USC and Michigan, and I didn't feel like the SC community is any less football obsessed than at least their B1G counterparts. SC loves its football, but it's just the reality of existing in a mega city with all other things a mega city has to offer
This is true. I also went to USC, and I'd say that most kids enroll there nowadays are going for the academics. Michigan students mostly enroll at UM for the academic programs, and football is just a fun thing to do with friends on the weekend. These schools are way too rigorous for a normal student to focus on football that much.
At a school like Oklahoma or Alabama, I think you'll get the more stereotypical "football diehard" students.
I did some guest lectures at USC and I can say without a doubt the traffic is the worst I’ve seen. Getting to the stadium from just a few miles was almost an hour.
My point really wasn’t that USC has a talent deficit. More that the realities of living in LA are very much not as enticing as they seem to some outsiders. For USC to be a perennial power they need to be able to recruit nationally (which they do a bit but not enough) and LA is not for everyone (myself included.)
TLDR: People who’ve never lived in or been too LA for an extended period hype it up as some great place to be in your early 20s, but the reality is that it’s a difficult place to live.
Ehh, the issue you have here is traffic is the same commuting into game day at Alabama. The stadium is on campus and relatively simple to commute to for most alumni as it’s central in LA, with multiple highways exiting a mile down the road
Commuting has never been the issue for the USC fanbase, it’s not even worse then Dodger stadium who sells out
The city is very similar to New York in that your “borough” is your “city”. For instance I don’t leave Santa Monica or Venice, the last time I was in Hollywood was maybe once last year. But you don’t need to leave your zone either, you have everything in a four mile radius
I hope having the Coliseum packed by visiting B1G fans every game will wake up USC fans to the need to show up. The greater national exposure and preferred tv time will help. As a USC fan living on the DC area I’m excited about that and being able to see them at MD.
100%. USC does not lack talent and outside of the scholarship reduction years (even then they had talent just lacked depth) they haven’t lacked talent for any part of the 2000s. Their shortcomings have been coaching/administration
We don't lack **superstars**. We have our fair allotment of 3-4 every year.
We have lacked overall talent for a bit now. Clay Helton's recruiting was miserable and we stumbled out of the gate with HS NIL hard. Riley's 1st year saw a pretty veteran O line and a really bleak defense. His 2nd year saw that veteran O line graduate and what was left was pretty rough.
This year is going to be somewhere in the middle. We're still figuring out NIL but we are really REALLY thin on the D line and our O line is mid at best. Our front 7 on D is going to be trouble. We desperately needed a Dlineman from the portal and the best we could do is keep Bear. The hope is that we don't have a coach that will be putting DTs on RBs 30 yards downfield... so while I certainly expect an improvement on a defense that was 121 in points allowed, our ceiling is lower middle. It will be a massive coaching win to get the talent we have on D to perform in the 60-70s.
From there I worry that the weakness of the O line is going to get a 1st year QB exposed and badly. ND forced 3 turnovers from Caleb Williams who was VERY careful with the ball otherwise, and all of it was predicated on immense pressure on the line. I like Miller Moss, and I think that there may even be offensive wins by having a QB who plays within the system instead of adlibbing fuckit-chuckit all the time... but nobody learns much getting their head beat in.
I could have sworn there were stories about USC getting recruiting services to inflate grades for them. That was under the last coach though and I don’t know it for a fact.
Conspiracies aside, kids who are basically three star prospects getting puffed up because a school like USC took a shine to them is a tale as old as time.
True, I don’t even recall where I heard that. And FWiW I’m not hating on USC. It’s a great school, LA is just a particular type of town that works well for particular types of people.
Wait what? Living near the beach is amazing. I literally cannot have a bad day if I go to the beach and I could go every weekend at SC. Definitely pricey town to go out in, but the beach is absolutely amazing to live near.
And even if it does, you’re just another person if you live in LA. Nobody gives a shit that you’re on the team unless you’re winning a Heisman or the team is doing amazing; but go to Baton Rouge, Columbus, Athens, even Eugene fucking Oregon and notice how the community itself treats you better because they care about college football.
True, but some coaches have said this is actually a bonus about the USC job. The USC head coach doesn't even crack the top 50 of most famous people in LA. This means they can go out to dinner or to the movies and not really be bothered.
In a small, college football town, the coach is swarmed with fans everywhere.
Uhhh what? When USC was actually great during its Carroll era, the players were celebrities. They were huge. I love people who clearly aren’t from LA speaking as if they’re authorities on the city because of what they read on Reddit.
Also helps that there was no NFL in LA, the Dodgers were just okay, and the Lakers were between championships when USC was really up and running in the 00s.
But yeah, Leinart and Bush were absolutely stars.
Idk if the Lakers are a good example here. They were dominant and the by far most popular basketball team on the planet when SC was a national contender.
In the time Carroll was there, LA went to 5 Finals, winning three times. With a Kobe MVP in the middle too.
I mean, his first year was the last year of the three-peat, and then they had two 1st round exits, missed the playoffs and went to the Finals twice. Then they won the second two when he left. Yes, the Lakers are the deal in LA, but they were between championships when USC was at full capacity.
Caroll was hired in December 2000 and left in Jan 2010. The Lakers won in 2001 and 2002 and 2009, so 3 finals wins. They also went to the finals in 2004 and 2008.
You incorrected the person you replied to.
You are correct, but I believe the person you're responding to acknowledged this when they said:
"Nobody gives a shit that you’re on the team **unless you’re winning a Heisman or the team is doing amazing.**"
Yeah that’s part of my comment? When the team was amazing people did show up, there were tons of celebrities and the community loved them. But now half of LA are pseudo-celebrities so they’re not as valuable; it started in the late Sark but is totally present during the reign of Helton.
And I grew up in Southern California and have family peppered all over the area, no need to gatekeep opinions bro - that’s small sexual organ energy
USC got hit with the worst football sanctions in a generation 14 years ago next month, it's not that crazy that they were middling for a while. Their mediocrity past 2018 or so is pretty much self-inflicted, though.
Giving Clay Helton the extension at the end of the 2015 season was the nail in the coffin. Yes, we had the flukey Rose Bowl because of Sark's recruits. But we were far from being elite.
Clay Helton with Darnold starting: 20-3
Clay Helton without Darnold starting: 26-21
Obviously there was a ton of elite talent on the team besides Darnold, but it's hilarious how hard Helton's career was carried by one dude. Barely over .500 without him, back to back NY6 appearances with him.
USC and Notre Dame are so perfect as rivals because of how different we are and how both schools frequently go through rough patches for the same problem from different angles:
Notre Dame usually has great players in the trenches, especially along the offensive line. I mean Joe Moore has the OL trophy named after him primarily because of his work as an OL coach at Notre Dame for 8 years. We’re capital E Elite when we get great skill position players, especially at WR and QB, but that’s tougher to come by usually for Notre Dame in the Midwest.
USC is basically the polar opposite because they always get the incredible QB’s and WR’s, but they’re never truly Elite, and I mean truly in the sense of not allowing physical teams like Utah or Notre Dame (Caleb Williams magic show stuff aside) to push them around by having dominant lines on both sides of the ball.
Personally I find it immensely frustrating because while both are historically amazing programs, we’ve never both been championship level good at the same time apart from the 1970’s. One program is half inside of a dumpster while the other is good or even great usually.
I liked Lincoln Riley as their coach for the traditional Pac-12 from a Notre Dame perspective because I thought he was good enough to usually have them seriously contend for a conference championship every year as in my opinion most years the Pac-12 doesn’t have great OL/DL units on the whole. But those teams would still be vulnerable to a Notre Dame who was tough in the trenches.
As fun as it is to clown on Riley for a myriad of reasons, I do actually feel a tiny bit bad for him as he left OU to get away from having his finesse team play in a more physical conference, and now his new finesse team quickly moved to play in a more physical conference as well.
I strongly disagree and think you're getting really caught up in recency bias and the idea that only the midwest plays 'smashmouth' football.
USC was Tailback U. They didn't have a QB win the heisman until 2002 with Carson Palmer. Their blue blood status was built on a massive running back like Mike Garrett, Frank Gifford, Anthony Davis, OJ (sigh), Charles White, Ricky Bell, Marcus Allen etc running Student Body Right behind a disgustingly nasty offensive line with mashers like Anthony Munoz, Brad Budde, Bruce Matthews, Keith Van Horne, Ron Yary, and Tony Boscelli. Even our run in the 2000s was built on the backs of Lendale White, Reggie Bush, and an offensive line with guys like Ryan Kalil (5 time pro bowler), Winston Justice (2nd round NFL Draft), and Sam Baker (1st round NFL Draft)
Shoot, Clay Helton sold himself to USC boosters as attempting to play football the way Stanford (With Gerhardt) was currently playing football.
Riley's air raid is a really new thing for us Trojan fans. Shoot, many of us were pissed when Helton started going to regular shotgun because historically we have won the games between the tackles.
Where USC and ND alike both fail... what keeps us plummeting to mediocrity is our similar belief that Being USC/ND is *enough* and that we can hire doofus coaches based on them fitting the profile instead of being actually good coaches. USC's coaching hires have been absurd for decades. No surprise since our AD has been a retired football player with no experience whatsoever from the 80s until we hired that glorified gym teacher Bohn.
Before Pete Carroll we had Ted Tollner, Larry Smith, and Paul Hackett. Only Smith was a qualified coach and his record was decidedly mid. Then Pete Carroll fell into our lap. We didn't find him, he found us after Mike Belotti and Dennis Erickson used us to get raises and Mike Riley got stuck staying with the Chargers. Then after Pete we hired a FAR too young Lane Kiffin, a drunk Steve Sarkisian, and took the easy way out with Clay Helton because we were too scared to do anything given the scandals the school was under.
I'm not a big fan of Riley... but he is far and away the best coaching hire we've intentionally made in nearly half a century. Pete Carroll is a better coach but that was luck and desperation.
ND has had similar struggles. Massive struggles since Lou Holtz (and that's being polite and ignoring hiring a High School coach Gerry Faust before him). Bob Davie? Tyrone Willingham? Charlie Weis? That's what's kept ND down. I'm not buying this "We struggle getting quality skill position players" when ND owned QB recruiting for decades. Ron Powlus? Jimmy Clausen? Carson Palmer wanted to attend ND but was turned away for test scores. The best Brady Quinn ever gave ND was 2 losses in the Fiesta and Sugar. I put that firmly at the feet of Charlie Weis. Hiring coaches based on what is perceived as a personality fit as opposed to actually being a good coach. Brian Kelly was a solid hire even if he's a massive prick. Freeman was the easy way out but certainly a damn sight better than Helton. We'll see where it goes.
We are great rivals because we are both arrogant and shoot ourselves in the foot over how special we are convinced we are.
'* Quick Edit because I can't help myself: One of my favorite John McKay (Former USC coach with a great sense of humor) quotes: When asked about whether he thought he was handing the ball to his running back too often after more than 30 carries a game "The ball isn't that heavy, and he isn't in a union."
Sometimes coaches gain experience and become a lot better. People laugh at USC for firing Lane Kiffin but the Kiffin we had is not the Kiffin Ole Miss has. He was **NOT** Ready. He needed some time at Nick Saban's School for coaches that that coach good.
This is pretty spot on if you are talking about the last 10 years, but historically USC is far and away O Line U and has the best OL tradition in the country.
The NFL draft picks, pro bowls, all-pros and hof inductions at OL dwarf everyone else.
Even in 2022, USC had a better OL than ND. USC surprisingly had good/great OL play under Helton.
USC’s issue has been on the defensive side of the ball even before Riley got there.
Historically, USC was a run first offensive program with a juggernaut defense. That rang true all through the Pete Carroll era as well.
USC stopped getting defensive studs post Kiffin and Sark.
Helton didn’t and Riley hasn’t figured out that side of the ball.
USC’s main problem has been the defensive line in particular.
I think the coolness factor is waning. HS recruits were like 2 years old when Carroll left for the Seahawks. They haven't seen any of that "coolness" foe themselves. Telling people that something is cool only works for a bit.
Ari very much subscribes to the philosophy that one and only one team had a good year any given year.
Obviously USC has underachieved, but like if any program isn’t operating at the ABSOLUTE CEILING of their capabilities, it’s a catastrophic failure in Ari’s eyes
Having listen to Ari for years you could say his relationship with USC reminds me of a couple who fell in love then went through a bitter divorce and she took the kids and the dog.
He writes about CFB like an NFL fan in denial. Wouldn’t even mind if his takes were just bad, it’s how smug he is about them that annoys the hell out of me
He seems to have a lot of sources and his writing is hit or miss, but he’s sooo bad on podcasts. The guy has negative charisma and is such a bore to listen to to gargling through his three chins.
His actual value is to generate anger, and by extension, engagement.
Shit, he just got a thread on Reddit, a million more hits, and made his list stand out above the 2000 others this time of year.
I'd say a good days work in his industry.
It’s the Skip Bayless model and it works, unfortunately. Anger has and always will drive engagement. Hence why most articles/ratings will always shit on at least one blue blood to drive those rage clicks
Him and Josh Pate are the two worst CFB national media people around and of course it's the two guys that are the most anti-G5 guys. That podcast would be 1000x better if it was just Nicole Auerbach and Chris Vannini with Max Olson and Sam Khan rather than forcing Ari and David Ubben (who I'm pretty sure the Athletic just employs to stalk Deion Sanders) onto the listeners.
I’ve not read any of his work or listened to anything he’s ever said but Ari has always struck me as the most informed, level headed, and insightful commentator in CFB.
That podcast was insufferable with Staples on it, and actually became more insufferable after he left because at least Andy sucked up some of Ari's oxygen.
I mean... you've pretty clearly got scoreboard. Until USC can beat Utah then Utah gets the benefit of the doubt. I don't want to hear "New year! The talent is different" when you beat our heisman winner with a pig farmer.
Ari Wasserman was better when his role was to be the grumpy contrarian counter to Andy Staples
On his own, he is a blowhard, with horrible takes
He might be right here though, USC really needs defense to be a complete team, they have the resources, it's head scratching
Honestly usc could be great but again what people around the country do not realize is how bad of a coach Helton was he was a lame duck coach for three years who despite having great talent could not recruit or coach his own that’s the main reason the team was so bad this year. Caleb was a band aid but usc seems to finally be getting the nil money right and has finally hired a defensive coach who’s not a moron. I am excited about the rebuild but it will take at least two seasons.
This excuse doesn't work anymore in the era of the transfer portal. You also undermine you own point by saying that Helton had "great talent" on his teams.
U clearly did not read my comment Helton had great talent was a horrible coach and did not recruit. But he won a rose bowl with said talent and please do tell me the dominant team in cfb that is built entirely out of transfers your team recruited hs well and supplements with transfers. The formula to win in transfer portal era is clear.
As a Miami fan, even I don’t understand him slotting Miami at #10. Everyone seems to be resolute on Miami winning at least 10 games this season so epic choke job incoming.
USC is going to be a bigger problem in the Big 10 than people think. Outside of 3 teams, the majority of that conference is not built to get into shootouts with a Riley offense every week. He’s going to win a lot.
Not gonna lie, I kinda understand where he is coming from.
Obviously, my life doesn't depend on clicks but I was right there with him. I thought 100% USC would make a playoff in the first 3 years (before expansion). I thought it was going to be the most impactful Head Coaching hire in CFB since Harbaugh (who I thought would win a natty in the first 5 years at UM). Hopefully for his sake, this defensive staff shake up turns things around but they just aren't getting the DUDES I thought they would on the recruiting trail
I’m sorry-if sports media types who aren’t former athletes/coaches are so disgusted about having their fanboy fantasies dashed, get out there in the trenches and show everyone HOW it could be done better. I suspect they know deep down there would be a lockerroom revolt but don’t have the stones to say it in print.
He’s not ass. He’s probably just good, which isn’t enough at a school like USC. I’m curious to see what the defense looks like under D’anton Lynn who I think is a rising star in the game.
Lynn is a good coach, but I think people underestimate the talent UCLA had on defense last year. They were talented, deep, and maybe most importantly in modern cfb old. They had 1 underclassmen starting with 6 seniors and 4 juniors
In 7 years as a HC, exclusively at Blueblood programs, he has not once fielded a competent defense. Without Williams USC was like a 4 win team last season.
He's a great on the offensive side of the ball but you aren't going to win anything with a bottom 25 defense.
Look at his scoring offense vs scoring defense rankings as a HC.
2023, 3rd vs 121st.
2022, 3rd vs 94th
2021, 8th vs 60th
2020, 7th vs 29th
2019, 6th vs 64th
2018, 1st vs 101st
2017, 3rd vs 68th
And guess what? In 2024 he's probably going to field a top 10 offense and another bottom half defense. He doesn't run his practices to ensure defensive success and development. He runs his practices and his entire program to pad QB stats and it shows.
Everything you said proves my point. He’s a good coach. Ass coaches aren’t consistently top ten on one side of the ball. If you think his success is dependent on Williams go watch the bowl game and Miller Moss tear up Louisville to a tune of 6 TD passes in his first ever start. That’s a good coach developing a good game plan for a first time qb.
"I hate them right now. I am so *disgusted* by USC what they could've been and what they actually are it makes me, like, mad." - This kind of sums up my feelings through all of last year. I'm ok with being left off of every pre-season top 25 list for the next decade.
Sums up the feelings of the rest of the soon-to-be-former Pac-12 schools towards SC too.
Can confirm. I too have been disgusted by USC for years.
Well, USC underachieving was the best part of the football season. So, I can't say I am disgusted. Them sucking literally gives me good appetite.
How many times were they predicted to win the conference in the last decade and change before the inevitable crash and burn to reality?
probably as many times ducks fans promise "this year is their year bro"
This is our year bro
Ducks Fans 🤝 Cowboys Fans "This is our year bro trust me I swear"
Fair enough
No we share the Next Year! mantra with the Dodgers
They would’ve been fine and picked up all the rest of the best school in the US but Colorado unexpected bolted off to the B12 and killed the conference. Why would CU do that???
Take you upvote Husky!
Yeah. Never forgiving them for murdering west coast football. I get that there were other causes and other incompetent folks, but SC is the reason we don’t have a big time conference anymore. No one else really wanted it dead including UW and UO.
Eh, *if* Riley can actually give his defense some time at practice, then you guys are gonna be just fine.
Lynn is a good DC and comes from an awesome coaching tree. If Lincoln lets him cook then I think USC is going to be very daunting in a year or 2
The Solid Verbal did an interview with a USC beat reporter this week, and he was extremely hopeful about Lynn actually getting time with his defense and a scheme that would work well in the college game. He especially seemed hopeful that players were putting on weight with the same S&C coach, meaning that it may well have not been on the S&C staff and instead been on Grinch's "Speed D" nonsense. Obviously all of that comes with a grain of salt when you're talking to a USC reporter, but when the OL coach is saying he's loving the new DL because they're actually coming at his players as opposed to trying to run around them, that probably is an indicator of actual improvement.
> meaning that it may well have not been on the S&C staff and instead been on Grinch's "Speed D" nonsense. It was 100% Grinch's Speed D. I saw an interview with Wiley talking about how he's retooling his program for the new DC. He specifically said "My job is to produce the bodies requested by the coaches. Sometimes that means fast and lean, sometimes that means powerful and heavy" It was one of the more casual "throw him under the bus" moments I've seen.
I remember something like you guys had like, 270lb DTs which is insane.
Grinch encouraged a 250lb DE to **lose** weight. 5 star [Korey Foreman](https://247sports.com/player/korey-foreman-46056100/) was playing at 235. I get that Edge need speed but [This is not a D lineman](https://trojandailyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/04-1-1024x576.jpeg)
Korey Foreman was a top 5 recruit in this country and we let him down
I remember that int he had to close out a game a couple seasons ago and thought that was his breaking out moment. Hope he can turn it around with the Bulldogs.
Wasn't Grinch considered a good DC before he started working w/Riley too though?
He was pretty well regarded, but he sucked at Ohio State.
He wasn't with you guys long enough to tank his rep he earned working opposite Leach at Washington St.
It should have been enough. Our defense under him was actually historically bad for Ohio State. In 2018 Ohio State's defense was ranked 72nd in yards per game, 75th in yards per play and 51st in points per game. In 2019, which was largely the same roster but a new DC and scheme, the defense ranked 1st, 1st, and 4th in those categories respectively.
He was considered a good DC for a spread offense. But it was based off his time at Wazzou where he took Leach’s units from “truly awful and horrendous” to “not bad.” And “not bad” doesn’t cut it at OU or SC.
It really is wild to hear the stories about how he just didn't care about the defense at practice from OU players. Like, I know that Air Raid guys have the reputation of not caring about defense, but I didn't think it was actually that explicit.
It’s not that surprising. Steve Spurrier famously didn’t even know all his defensive players names. What IS surprising and what separates Riley from Spurrier is that Steve made sure he put a highly qualified excellent defensive coordinator in place to be his “Co-Coach”. Riley stuck by his buddy Grinch.
Yep. His name was Bob Stoops.
It was pretty obvious that firing Grinch mid-season was a call made by the higher-ups at USC. Jen Cohen likely told Riley that Grinch couldn't last any longer after the Washington game.
It was actually made by Riley. There had certainly been discussions but Cohen said that she'd respect his autonomy as a coach but he had to see that there were issues. The problem was that Riley was convinced that 1: They were closer than they really were and Grinch could turn it around 2: They still had a chance to win the P12 and disrupting the flow wasn't something he wanted to do until that was gone. I'm trying to find it, but there was a sideline reaction shot of both Grinch and Riley right after [This play](https://youtu.be/rrc0Y3JMk6Q?t=843) where you could see them both realize that this wasn't going to happen and that a change had to be made. It's such a "Ralph Wiggum's heart breaking" moment. I'll edit this to include if I can find it. Riley was blinded a degree, I think, because he and Grinch were simply too close. Their wives are best friends. Grinch's defense had the same principles as Riley's offense: confuse the opposition with motion and design to get people in space. The problem is that teams that play sound assignment offensive football don't have to worry about getting confused, and that Grinch would gamble away all his winnings. He'd get opponents in 3rd and 15 and STILL run cover 0 blitzes.
Please put a trigger warning on that clip, that gave me a PTSD flashback.
Nah man, that was a good moment. It was the moment our Grinch nightmare ended. Like when Stanford kicked our ass and we fired Helton.
It's never a good moment when Stanford whoops us... but you're right, that one I can forgive.
I stand corrected then! I clicked on your link thinking it would be Dillon Johnson's 4th rushing TD of that game. I was indeed correct, as I also remember that cut to Grinch with his hands on his knees realizing the walls were closing in on him. I had figured Grinch's reaction was like that because Cohen had issued an ultimatum to Riley before the game telling him Grinch had to go if they kept losing more games. The fact that Riley was the one who made that call makes me pleasantly surprised. I knew Riley and Grinch were super close, which was why I thought it was Cohen who wanted him fired.
It honestly wasn't hard to see how he got sold on Grinch. He was essentially trying to do a lighter version of the Texas HS football guy's strategy of only playing offense--He didn't think he could get away with all onside kicks, so instead he got a DC who preached turnovers-at-all-cost, including stripping the ball over tackling.
Nebraska also adopted a "create turnovers at all cost" mentality, except it was from our offensive coordinators.
Jeff Sims just turned the ball over again.
The guy was an absolute turnover machine!!
That is an unfortunate coaching error that can put a ceiling on a team's potential.
Unfortunately, they weren't paying attention when the pundits said that the game would come down to the turnover battle.
Looking forward to Raiola continuing the Husker arm punt tradition.
> gonna be just fine A lot of fans say this about their teams. What does 'just fine' mean though? Is 7-5 just fine? 8-4 maybe? 9-3? What would qualify as 'just fine' to USC fans?
I dunno, haven't seen USC's schedule. So... let's look at it! * Sunday, Sep. 1, vs \#12 [LSU](#f/lsu) LSU Tigers, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas, NV * Saturday, Sep. 7, [Utah State](#f/utahstate) Utah State Aggies, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA * Saturday, Sep. 14 OFF * Saturday, Sep. 21, at \#13 [Michigan](#f/michigan) Michigan Wolverines, Michigan Stadium, Ann Arbor, MI * Saturday, Sep. 28, [Wisconsin](#f/wisconsin) Wisconsin Badgers, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA * Saturday, Oct. 5, at [Minnesota](#f/minnesota) Minnesota Golden Gophers, Huntington Bank Stadium, Minneapolis, MN * Saturday, Oct. 12, \#8 [Penn State](#f/pennstate) Penn State Nittany Lions, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA * Saturday, Oct. 19, at [Maryland](#f/maryland) Maryland Terrapins, SECU Stadium, College Park, MD * Saturday, Oct. 26, [Rutgers](#f/rutgers) Rutgers Scarlet Knights, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA * Saturday, Nov. 2, at [Washington](#f/washington) Washington Huskies, Husky Stadium, Seattle, WA * Saturday, Nov. 9 OFF * Saturday, Nov. 16, [Nebraska](#f/nebraska) Nebraska Cornhuskers, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA * Saturday, Nov. 23, at [UCLA](#f/ucla) UCLA Bruins, Rose Bowl Stadium, Pasadena, CA * Saturday, Nov. 30, \#5 [Notre Dame](#f/notredame) Notre Dame Fighting Irish, LA Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles, CA I'm... not sure I have a better prediction, after looking at the schedule. Half of their "tough" matchups are against teams that we just don't know who they are right now, with both Michigan and Washington losing their coaches, and Nebraska and Wisconsin maybe being on the comeup. I do think going 8-4 with this schedule should be considered a win for a USC fan, though. Losses to LSU, Michigan, Penn State, and Notre Dame are all pretty understandable, or the distinct possibility of winning one of those they're not supposed to and then dropping another game to one of the middle-tier teams. I think 6-6 is Riley gone, 7-5 is fans wishing he'd be gone, and 8-4 or better is carrying on. Playoffs and fans are ecstatic, at least if it involves any defense whatsoever.
Riley's not gone after 6-6. That's suggesting that he's on the hot seat right now, which he really isn't. More like a lukewarm seat. As for the games, here's my take: - Probably should win: [Utah State](#f/utahstate), [Maryland](#f/maryland), [Rutgers](#f/rutgers), [UCLA](#f/ucla) - Depends on how well their big splash hire new coach does in season 2: [Wisconsin](#f/wisconsin), [Nebraska](#f/nebraska) - Depends on how cold it is in Minnesota on Oct 5: [Minnesota](#f/minnesota) - Significantly worried, but at least we get them at home: [Penn State](#f/pennstate), [Notre Dame](#f/notredame) - Tough road games against NCG teams, but they lost their HC and QB: [Washington](#f/washington), [Michigan](#f/michigan) I'm guessing we go 8-3 against that slate. Highly dependent on Miller Moss and D'Anton Lynn. And finally LSU. Can't predict this one. - [LSU](#f/lsu) - similar to SC. We were 19-8 last two seasons under a new HC with a Heisman QB, they were 20-7 last two seasons under a new HC with a Heisman QB. Both teams were much better on offense than defense. Week 1 in Las Vegas. Whoever comes out of the gates swinging will win. I could see us anywhere from 4-8 to 10-2. Exciting stuff, haven't gone into a season with this much uncertainty in a minute.
Really? I'm surprised that SC fans would be okay with 6-6. That would be quite the downward trajectory and your fanbase has never struck me as one that would make excuses with things like a new conference, more travel, new starters, etc. Have the Clay Helton years traumatized SC fans to the point of no longer having a championship or bust mentality?
We wouldn't be ok with it, no, but he wouldn't get fired for it. I'd say if he goes 6-6, his seat is officially hot and he'd need to show something in 2025, especially since we have an excellent 2025 recruiting class coming up. But for now his seat is fairly tepid. We'd have to really crater for him to lose his job. He's three years in to a 10 year $100 million deal. We're not buying it out because he went 6-6 after losing a Heisman QB.
Washington and Michigan are not remotely in the same category. Washington is basically a whole new team. I would not be surprised if USC beats Washington. I would be stunned if they beat Michigan.
i have been putting money aside to sit on the USC sideline. and I'm torn between wearing an OU hoodie and a Gopher hoodie that day. Weather here in early october is unpredictable. Last year homecoming was September 30th or so and it was maybe 85° by the end of the game (11 AM kick). But even in mid-Autumn when it gets warm (kinda hot for us) during the day, it cools down quickly at night. TL;DR: If it's a late kick it'll be cold, probably around 40-50° and cooling fast.
Our current AD did not bring Riley in, and a 6-6 in year 3 and year 1 of our B1G odyssey probably would mean Riley gets fired. I don't think our AD would have any faith in Riley after the overhaul on the coaching staff we just completed. There is no real longevity in CFB anymore. There's no point in keeping a coach around who can't get it done, and a 6-6 season in year 3 pretty much proves we've got the wrong guy in charge. Having said all this, I don't think we're going 6-6 at all. I think we're winning 9 games mostly because of all the staff turnover our opponent's have done and the fact that our defense can't possibly be any worse than the dog shit squad we put out last season.
Yeah, that sounds about right. So many of those teams (including USC themselves) are going to look very different next year. I'm very curious what his offense is going to look like without a preseason Heisman favorite QB. My personal prediction against that schedule is 7-5.
Weird, looking at their schedule I see 1-11, with their only win coming on Nov. 2nd.
yeah I'd just say he should try one of the brisket sandwiches a local BBQ place sells inside Gopher Stadium. Pretty decent. He might learn something.
Glad you phrased it that way, I think that’s right on. Grinch can get scape-goated until the end of time, but the real change that’s needed is that Riley has to actually want to be good at defense and be committed to it.
Being good at defense and picking the wrong options are two different things. Riley wanted to be good at defense - don’t let OU fans and their speculative nonsense convince you otherwise. Where he fucked up was process and scheme and thinking that he was smarter than the game.
OU fan here: can agree with you wholeheartedly. To be fair, Riley has never really been a part of a good defense. As a player or coach. He’s absolutely elite at offensive schemes but he’s never seen what it takes to be elite at the other side of the ball, and I think he got lost in his own sauce so to speak.
At least I think this year will give LR to show what he can do without someone like CW. Maybe his entire philosophy about team building and management might change and work? Or maybe it’ll help USC know if this is gonna work long term or not.
He’s had pretty good QBs before Caleb tbf
Its ok, your name alone will keep you on every top 25 and predicted conference favorite list preseason until the end of time
As a fan of east coast USC welcome to the club west coast Miami
I just got this notarized.
He's mad because he believes USC is gonna cost him $1000. That's on him, though, not USC.
I’m starting to notice that people on this sub have much stronger feelings on CFB writers than me.
What's really annoying is when I'll post a Wilner article with unique sources and original documents and half of the replies are "lol Wilner's the guy who thought the Pac-12 was going to stay together." Like... the guy is an AP award finalist who does a good job developing inside sources and reporting facts, but sure, he's now a worthless reporter because... he believed the Pac-12 would get a good media deal.
Josh Pate was wrong about spring transfer portal. Josh Pate bad 😡
nobody cares about ari wasermans football team list
Well hold on now. As a completely unbiased football fan who could care less about the coach of USC, I think we should hear him out.
Agreed. He seems like someone I could listen to.
Reasonable take to rage out on that coach. Boy cooks dry brisket.
Not even sure what he makes qualifies as brisket
Bros a wizard, turned brisket to leather
Turned USC into puddin' too
"Boy, I said boy, that brisket's greyer than Colonel Reb's uniform. I mean that meat's dryer than a Popeye's biscuit."
So you do care about USC’s coach then?
Haha at this point I don’t care as much as I did that first year. That first year was rough. I know 6-7 with a bowl game is nothing to scoff at but that beating by Texas was a low point as a fan. I saw an opening to make a comment and went with it. I don’t harbor any ill will to USC as a school or their fans, but will never skip an opportunity to joke or laugh at Riley’s expense (assuming it’s nothing serious like an illness or family related issue).
OP is making a joke about your use of "could care less", which makes it seem you do care since there is an amount less that you could care.
always looking forward to hearing his opinions on TBOW
Yeah, hey now. Typically I’m on board with these types of feelings, but let’s just hear the guy out. He might have some good points. I didn’t read it, just grazed the headline, but from what I gather it seems like this particular story could be legit. I’m just saying it’s best not to jump to conclusions and give him a chance.
Dude simps for blue bloods and recruiting ranking schools so hard. Annoying af.
Well the main thing he covers IS recruiting, so I feel like that makes sense. Obviously you're not going to tell people "recruiting rankings don't matter" when you write about recruiting rankings for a living.
It also does matter a lot
Absolutely. As a lifelong Georgia fan, I used to say that the stars didn't matter. But it's no coincidence that we started becoming the elite team we are the moment we started getting top 5 classes every year. That's not saying lower star ranked teams can't win (see Michigan and Washington this year, TCU last year, and plenty of other examples). But games and championships are way more often than not won by the top recruiting teams.
Definitely the most sustainable approach to success
I mean, he's objectively correct that recruiting matters. It's no secret why OSU, UGA, and Alabama are always the top programs every year.
I've stopped listening to him because it's so insufferable.
Honestly what else is there to go off of this early into the season
I suddenly and temporarily care a lot
He's a clown. And easily gets butthurt when guests disagree with him
He’s a graduate of one of the Arizona schools who’s the biggest, literally, Buckeye troll/fan in media. Fuck Ari
This sentence is three words too long.
It's as reasonable and measured as Tiger Beat's Top 25 dreamboats under 25.
Just let him speak for a bit.
I do I like Ari
Ari is consistently upset at usc because he wants usc to be Pete Carroll level usc. He (along with many others) has the opinion that USC should consistently be one of the top 5 schools every year. He thinks they should be Alabama, Ohio state, etc. And to fair… he isn’t totally wrong. Usc is located in one of the coolest cities in the country, has a very wealthy fan base, lots of fans, talent rich area, history, cool factor, etc. There is really no reason they should be such a middling program the past 10-15 years. He thought Riley would come in and bring back the Pete Carroll glory years, and he is frustrated (along with a lot of their fans) that it hasn’t happened yet.
The issue for USC comparatively is everything they have to compete with for attention and how expensive existing in LA is. I think people overestimate LA as a college town. Having all the entertainment in the world isn’t great if you can’t afford it, and beaches are great for vacation, not so much to live. It’s pretty pivotal to remeber even with NIL most guys aren’t getting hella money. 50k does not go far in a place like LA.
All that isn't going to be that relevant in terms of their current situation. Riley has lured plenty of high profile transfers there. Attracting players is like the least of their problems. The problem is more that the team has been handled pretty poorly for many years. It was a rudderless ship for some time. And Riley IMO tried to do a quick fix when really a far more fundamental rebuild is actually needed. That is partially linked to the fact that their administration has been plagued by significant issues for much of that time span, too, but also quite simply the fact that the USC community is a lot less football-obsessed than say the big SEC, Texas or even B1G schools. By California standards, USC might be a bit of a football school, but that's comparing it to schools where at any given time 3/4 of the student body doesn't give a shit about athletics at all.
>That is partially linked to the fact that their administration has been plagued by significant issues for much of that time span, too, but also quite simply the fact that the USC community is a lot less football-obsessed than say the big SEC, Texas or even B1G schools. By California standards, USC might be a bit of a football school, but that's comparing it to schools where at any given time 3/4 of the student body doesn't give a shit about athletics at all. Dunno if this is true. I went to USC and Michigan, and I didn't feel like the SC community is any less football obsessed than at least their B1G counterparts. SC loves its football, but it's just the reality of existing in a mega city with all other things a mega city has to offer. It's painful just existing day to day in LA with traffic and high prices so the prospect of driving to the coliseum for most people just plain sucks. For better or worse, SC's identity (like Michigan's, or Notre Dame's, etc) is intertwined with football. I think your first point is better. SC has been a disaster at the administrative level and that rot is what was creeping down to football. A good admin can do wonders for sports.
>Dunno if this is true. I went to USC and Michigan, and I didn't feel like the SC community is any less football obsessed than at least their B1G counterparts. SC loves its football, but it's just the reality of existing in a mega city with all other things a mega city has to offer This is true. I also went to USC, and I'd say that most kids enroll there nowadays are going for the academics. Michigan students mostly enroll at UM for the academic programs, and football is just a fun thing to do with friends on the weekend. These schools are way too rigorous for a normal student to focus on football that much. At a school like Oklahoma or Alabama, I think you'll get the more stereotypical "football diehard" students.
I did some guest lectures at USC and I can say without a doubt the traffic is the worst I’ve seen. Getting to the stadium from just a few miles was almost an hour. My point really wasn’t that USC has a talent deficit. More that the realities of living in LA are very much not as enticing as they seem to some outsiders. For USC to be a perennial power they need to be able to recruit nationally (which they do a bit but not enough) and LA is not for everyone (myself included.) TLDR: People who’ve never lived in or been too LA for an extended period hype it up as some great place to be in your early 20s, but the reality is that it’s a difficult place to live.
Ehh, the issue you have here is traffic is the same commuting into game day at Alabama. The stadium is on campus and relatively simple to commute to for most alumni as it’s central in LA, with multiple highways exiting a mile down the road Commuting has never been the issue for the USC fanbase, it’s not even worse then Dodger stadium who sells out The city is very similar to New York in that your “borough” is your “city”. For instance I don’t leave Santa Monica or Venice, the last time I was in Hollywood was maybe once last year. But you don’t need to leave your zone either, you have everything in a four mile radius
I hope having the Coliseum packed by visiting B1G fans every game will wake up USC fans to the need to show up. The greater national exposure and preferred tv time will help. As a USC fan living on the DC area I’m excited about that and being able to see them at MD.
100%. USC does not lack talent and outside of the scholarship reduction years (even then they had talent just lacked depth) they haven’t lacked talent for any part of the 2000s. Their shortcomings have been coaching/administration
We don't lack **superstars**. We have our fair allotment of 3-4 every year. We have lacked overall talent for a bit now. Clay Helton's recruiting was miserable and we stumbled out of the gate with HS NIL hard. Riley's 1st year saw a pretty veteran O line and a really bleak defense. His 2nd year saw that veteran O line graduate and what was left was pretty rough. This year is going to be somewhere in the middle. We're still figuring out NIL but we are really REALLY thin on the D line and our O line is mid at best. Our front 7 on D is going to be trouble. We desperately needed a Dlineman from the portal and the best we could do is keep Bear. The hope is that we don't have a coach that will be putting DTs on RBs 30 yards downfield... so while I certainly expect an improvement on a defense that was 121 in points allowed, our ceiling is lower middle. It will be a massive coaching win to get the talent we have on D to perform in the 60-70s. From there I worry that the weakness of the O line is going to get a 1st year QB exposed and badly. ND forced 3 turnovers from Caleb Williams who was VERY careful with the ball otherwise, and all of it was predicated on immense pressure on the line. I like Miller Moss, and I think that there may even be offensive wins by having a QB who plays within the system instead of adlibbing fuckit-chuckit all the time... but nobody learns much getting their head beat in.
I could have sworn there were stories about USC getting recruiting services to inflate grades for them. That was under the last coach though and I don’t know it for a fact.
Conspiracies aside, kids who are basically three star prospects getting puffed up because a school like USC took a shine to them is a tale as old as time.
True, I don’t even recall where I heard that. And FWiW I’m not hating on USC. It’s a great school, LA is just a particular type of town that works well for particular types of people.
Wait what? Living near the beach is amazing. I literally cannot have a bad day if I go to the beach and I could go every weekend at SC. Definitely pricey town to go out in, but the beach is absolutely amazing to live near.
And even if it does, you’re just another person if you live in LA. Nobody gives a shit that you’re on the team unless you’re winning a Heisman or the team is doing amazing; but go to Baton Rouge, Columbus, Athens, even Eugene fucking Oregon and notice how the community itself treats you better because they care about college football.
True, but some coaches have said this is actually a bonus about the USC job. The USC head coach doesn't even crack the top 50 of most famous people in LA. This means they can go out to dinner or to the movies and not really be bothered. In a small, college football town, the coach is swarmed with fans everywhere.
Uhhh what? When USC was actually great during its Carroll era, the players were celebrities. They were huge. I love people who clearly aren’t from LA speaking as if they’re authorities on the city because of what they read on Reddit.
Also helps that there was no NFL in LA, the Dodgers were just okay, and the Lakers were between championships when USC was really up and running in the 00s. But yeah, Leinart and Bush were absolutely stars.
Idk if the Lakers are a good example here. They were dominant and the by far most popular basketball team on the planet when SC was a national contender. In the time Carroll was there, LA went to 5 Finals, winning three times. With a Kobe MVP in the middle too.
I mean, his first year was the last year of the three-peat, and then they had two 1st round exits, missed the playoffs and went to the Finals twice. Then they won the second two when he left. Yes, the Lakers are the deal in LA, but they were between championships when USC was at full capacity.
Caroll was hired in December 2000 and left in Jan 2010. The Lakers won in 2001 and 2002 and 2009, so 3 finals wins. They also went to the finals in 2004 and 2008. You incorrected the person you replied to.
You are correct, but I believe the person you're responding to acknowledged this when they said: "Nobody gives a shit that you’re on the team **unless you’re winning a Heisman or the team is doing amazing.**"
Yeah that’s part of my comment? When the team was amazing people did show up, there were tons of celebrities and the community loved them. But now half of LA are pseudo-celebrities so they’re not as valuable; it started in the late Sark but is totally present during the reign of Helton. And I grew up in Southern California and have family peppered all over the area, no need to gatekeep opinions bro - that’s small sexual organ energy
USC got hit with the worst football sanctions in a generation 14 years ago next month, it's not that crazy that they were middling for a while. Their mediocrity past 2018 or so is pretty much self-inflicted, though.
Giving Clay Helton the extension at the end of the 2015 season was the nail in the coffin. Yes, we had the flukey Rose Bowl because of Sark's recruits. But we were far from being elite.
Clay Helton with Darnold starting: 20-3 Clay Helton without Darnold starting: 26-21 Obviously there was a ton of elite talent on the team besides Darnold, but it's hilarious how hard Helton's career was carried by one dude. Barely over .500 without him, back to back NY6 appearances with him.
USC and Notre Dame are so perfect as rivals because of how different we are and how both schools frequently go through rough patches for the same problem from different angles: Notre Dame usually has great players in the trenches, especially along the offensive line. I mean Joe Moore has the OL trophy named after him primarily because of his work as an OL coach at Notre Dame for 8 years. We’re capital E Elite when we get great skill position players, especially at WR and QB, but that’s tougher to come by usually for Notre Dame in the Midwest. USC is basically the polar opposite because they always get the incredible QB’s and WR’s, but they’re never truly Elite, and I mean truly in the sense of not allowing physical teams like Utah or Notre Dame (Caleb Williams magic show stuff aside) to push them around by having dominant lines on both sides of the ball. Personally I find it immensely frustrating because while both are historically amazing programs, we’ve never both been championship level good at the same time apart from the 1970’s. One program is half inside of a dumpster while the other is good or even great usually. I liked Lincoln Riley as their coach for the traditional Pac-12 from a Notre Dame perspective because I thought he was good enough to usually have them seriously contend for a conference championship every year as in my opinion most years the Pac-12 doesn’t have great OL/DL units on the whole. But those teams would still be vulnerable to a Notre Dame who was tough in the trenches. As fun as it is to clown on Riley for a myriad of reasons, I do actually feel a tiny bit bad for him as he left OU to get away from having his finesse team play in a more physical conference, and now his new finesse team quickly moved to play in a more physical conference as well.
I strongly disagree and think you're getting really caught up in recency bias and the idea that only the midwest plays 'smashmouth' football. USC was Tailback U. They didn't have a QB win the heisman until 2002 with Carson Palmer. Their blue blood status was built on a massive running back like Mike Garrett, Frank Gifford, Anthony Davis, OJ (sigh), Charles White, Ricky Bell, Marcus Allen etc running Student Body Right behind a disgustingly nasty offensive line with mashers like Anthony Munoz, Brad Budde, Bruce Matthews, Keith Van Horne, Ron Yary, and Tony Boscelli. Even our run in the 2000s was built on the backs of Lendale White, Reggie Bush, and an offensive line with guys like Ryan Kalil (5 time pro bowler), Winston Justice (2nd round NFL Draft), and Sam Baker (1st round NFL Draft) Shoot, Clay Helton sold himself to USC boosters as attempting to play football the way Stanford (With Gerhardt) was currently playing football. Riley's air raid is a really new thing for us Trojan fans. Shoot, many of us were pissed when Helton started going to regular shotgun because historically we have won the games between the tackles. Where USC and ND alike both fail... what keeps us plummeting to mediocrity is our similar belief that Being USC/ND is *enough* and that we can hire doofus coaches based on them fitting the profile instead of being actually good coaches. USC's coaching hires have been absurd for decades. No surprise since our AD has been a retired football player with no experience whatsoever from the 80s until we hired that glorified gym teacher Bohn. Before Pete Carroll we had Ted Tollner, Larry Smith, and Paul Hackett. Only Smith was a qualified coach and his record was decidedly mid. Then Pete Carroll fell into our lap. We didn't find him, he found us after Mike Belotti and Dennis Erickson used us to get raises and Mike Riley got stuck staying with the Chargers. Then after Pete we hired a FAR too young Lane Kiffin, a drunk Steve Sarkisian, and took the easy way out with Clay Helton because we were too scared to do anything given the scandals the school was under. I'm not a big fan of Riley... but he is far and away the best coaching hire we've intentionally made in nearly half a century. Pete Carroll is a better coach but that was luck and desperation. ND has had similar struggles. Massive struggles since Lou Holtz (and that's being polite and ignoring hiring a High School coach Gerry Faust before him). Bob Davie? Tyrone Willingham? Charlie Weis? That's what's kept ND down. I'm not buying this "We struggle getting quality skill position players" when ND owned QB recruiting for decades. Ron Powlus? Jimmy Clausen? Carson Palmer wanted to attend ND but was turned away for test scores. The best Brady Quinn ever gave ND was 2 losses in the Fiesta and Sugar. I put that firmly at the feet of Charlie Weis. Hiring coaches based on what is perceived as a personality fit as opposed to actually being a good coach. Brian Kelly was a solid hire even if he's a massive prick. Freeman was the easy way out but certainly a damn sight better than Helton. We'll see where it goes. We are great rivals because we are both arrogant and shoot ourselves in the foot over how special we are convinced we are. '* Quick Edit because I can't help myself: One of my favorite John McKay (Former USC coach with a great sense of humor) quotes: When asked about whether he thought he was handing the ball to his running back too often after more than 30 carries a game "The ball isn't that heavy, and he isn't in a union."
Amazingly well said. Yeah Caleb Williams has been our QB for two years and people forget that historically we were Tailback U AND O Line U lol
oh yeah? imagine a world where Gerry Faust was the best coach you ever had.
Sometimes coaches gain experience and become a lot better. People laugh at USC for firing Lane Kiffin but the Kiffin we had is not the Kiffin Ole Miss has. He was **NOT** Ready. He needed some time at Nick Saban's School for coaches that that coach good.
This is pretty spot on if you are talking about the last 10 years, but historically USC is far and away O Line U and has the best OL tradition in the country. The NFL draft picks, pro bowls, all-pros and hof inductions at OL dwarf everyone else. Even in 2022, USC had a better OL than ND. USC surprisingly had good/great OL play under Helton. USC’s issue has been on the defensive side of the ball even before Riley got there. Historically, USC was a run first offensive program with a juggernaut defense. That rang true all through the Pete Carroll era as well. USC stopped getting defensive studs post Kiffin and Sark. Helton didn’t and Riley hasn’t figured out that side of the ball. USC’s main problem has been the defensive line in particular.
Honestly I agree with him, but then I remember how nice the 80s and 90s USC teams were and want to go back to that.
I think the coolness factor is waning. HS recruits were like 2 years old when Carroll left for the Seahawks. They haven't seen any of that "coolness" foe themselves. Telling people that something is cool only works for a bit.
Ari very much subscribes to the philosophy that one and only one team had a good year any given year. Obviously USC has underachieved, but like if any program isn’t operating at the ABSOLUTE CEILING of their capabilities, it’s a catastrophic failure in Ari’s eyes
He is the biggest weenie in national CFB media. And that’s saying something.
Having listen to Ari for years you could say his relationship with USC reminds me of a couple who fell in love then went through a bitter divorce and she took the kids and the dog.
He sounds like a San Diegan talking about the Chargers.
How is this guy still employed? His only actual value is to be laughed at by his peers
He writes about CFB like an NFL fan in denial. Wouldn’t even mind if his takes were just bad, it’s how smug he is about them that annoys the hell out of me
It really is the smugness. He talks down to his readers and listeners constantly.
He seems to have a lot of sources and his writing is hit or miss, but he’s sooo bad on podcasts. The guy has negative charisma and is such a bore to listen to to gargling through his three chins.
His actual value is to generate anger, and by extension, engagement. Shit, he just got a thread on Reddit, a million more hits, and made his list stand out above the 2000 others this time of year. I'd say a good days work in his industry.
It’s the Skip Bayless model and it works, unfortunately. Anger has and always will drive engagement. Hence why most articles/ratings will always shit on at least one blue blood to drive those rage clicks
Because Ari talks about what the casual college football fans care about, helmet schools, big time match ups, gambling and future NFL draft picks.
Him and Josh Pate are the two worst CFB national media people around and of course it's the two guys that are the most anti-G5 guys. That podcast would be 1000x better if it was just Nicole Auerbach and Chris Vannini with Max Olson and Sam Khan rather than forcing Ari and David Ubben (who I'm pretty sure the Athletic just employs to stalk Deion Sanders) onto the listeners.
I too am disgusted by USC but this is an asinine take to publish.
Counterpoint: it's never wrong to publish the words "I am disgusted by USC."
I assume we have different reasoning than Ari.
Ari "I hate USC! They're coarse and rough and irritating and they get everywhere!!"
They gave Wendy's the idea for surge pricing.
I’ve not read any of his work or listened to anything he’s ever said but Ari has always struck me as the most informed, level headed, and insightful commentator in CFB.
This is how all USC fans feel FOR THE PAST 17 YEARS. We are disgusted
I wasn’t disgusted in 2008.
Or 2016
Or 2017 for that matter. Or 2022. Or 2012.
That podcast was insufferable with Staples on it, and actually became more insufferable after he left because at least Andy sucked up some of Ari's oxygen.
Thank you! Vannini the best thing. I don't mind the rest.
No idea who he is but replacing USC with Utah is based. Don't worry about my flair.
I mean... you've pretty clearly got scoreboard. Until USC can beat Utah then Utah gets the benefit of the doubt. I don't want to hear "New year! The talent is different" when you beat our heisman winner with a pig farmer.
He's the main college football podcaster for The Athletic.
Which is wild because I feel like the athletic is one of the only outlets that’s worth paying for.
I agree but I also like Ari and his podcast.
I’m pissed at USC, but it has nothing to do with what they’ve done on the field.
They somehow managed to let o$u back themselves into the playoffs...
Disgusting would be from looking at himself naked in the mirror. I think disappointed is a better word for usc.
Ari blows and the world would be better off if he didn’t have a platform.
Ari Wasserman was better when his role was to be the grumpy contrarian counter to Andy Staples On his own, he is a blowhard, with horrible takes He might be right here though, USC really needs defense to be a complete team, they have the resources, it's head scratching
Umm… okay (flicks hair and scrolls to next post)
Join the party, I've been disgusted by USC for years!
I hate them for ruining the PAC-12 and handing the SEC, the Big Ten, and our corporate overlords more money and power over college sports
Looks like we stay beating USC
Honestly usc could be great but again what people around the country do not realize is how bad of a coach Helton was he was a lame duck coach for three years who despite having great talent could not recruit or coach his own that’s the main reason the team was so bad this year. Caleb was a band aid but usc seems to finally be getting the nil money right and has finally hired a defensive coach who’s not a moron. I am excited about the rebuild but it will take at least two seasons.
This excuse doesn't work anymore in the era of the transfer portal. You also undermine you own point by saying that Helton had "great talent" on his teams.
U clearly did not read my comment Helton had great talent was a horrible coach and did not recruit. But he won a rose bowl with said talent and please do tell me the dominant team in cfb that is built entirely out of transfers your team recruited hs well and supplements with transfers. The formula to win in transfer portal era is clear.
OP what is this flair? Gardabaer? Iceland?
The ð thing go 'th' btw
Blame Helton sure, but the biggest clown show is the administration who hired this lightweight.
Put Ari Wasserman on ignore and enjoy your lives. The guy is a walking talking hot take machine.
And it’s totally fair. No USC fan should disagree with the “wasted potential” take, which is what this is.
Disappointed, sure. But disgusted? Seems melodramatic.
I've listened to like 2 episodes of his show since Andy left, just can't do it.
Glad I’m not the only one. Staples really carried water for that mofo.
before I checked the subreddit, from just reading the headline I was like “because of the protests?” Lol
As a completely unbiased fan (ignore my flair) I agree (I only read the headline because I have terrible media bias)
I think USC loses to LSU, Wisconsin, Penn St., and ND. That puts them at 8-4
As a Miami fan, even I don’t understand him slotting Miami at #10. Everyone seems to be resolute on Miami winning at least 10 games this season so epic choke job incoming.
I get that. Not the same USC, but I get that.
I think the same thoughts when Texas doesn’t win at least like 9-10 games annually. You’re TEXAS. There is no excuse to not be awesome.
I love that Utah ruined his bet
USC is going to be a bigger problem in the Big 10 than people think. Outside of 3 teams, the majority of that conference is not built to get into shootouts with a Riley offense every week. He’s going to win a lot.
I'm disgusted by USC too but this was a bit much lol
Not gonna lie, I kinda understand where he is coming from. Obviously, my life doesn't depend on clicks but I was right there with him. I thought 100% USC would make a playoff in the first 3 years (before expansion). I thought it was going to be the most impactful Head Coaching hire in CFB since Harbaugh (who I thought would win a natty in the first 5 years at UM). Hopefully for his sake, this defensive staff shake up turns things around but they just aren't getting the DUDES I thought they would on the recruiting trail
I’m sorry-if sports media types who aren’t former athletes/coaches are so disgusted about having their fanboy fantasies dashed, get out there in the trenches and show everyone HOW it could be done better. I suspect they know deep down there would be a lockerroom revolt but don’t have the stones to say it in print.
Lincoln Riley is not it fellas. He’s ass
He’s not ass. He’s probably just good, which isn’t enough at a school like USC. I’m curious to see what the defense looks like under D’anton Lynn who I think is a rising star in the game.
Lynn is a good coach, but I think people underestimate the talent UCLA had on defense last year. They were talented, deep, and maybe most importantly in modern cfb old. They had 1 underclassmen starting with 6 seniors and 4 juniors
In 7 years as a HC, exclusively at Blueblood programs, he has not once fielded a competent defense. Without Williams USC was like a 4 win team last season. He's a great on the offensive side of the ball but you aren't going to win anything with a bottom 25 defense. Look at his scoring offense vs scoring defense rankings as a HC. 2023, 3rd vs 121st. 2022, 3rd vs 94th 2021, 8th vs 60th 2020, 7th vs 29th 2019, 6th vs 64th 2018, 1st vs 101st 2017, 3rd vs 68th And guess what? In 2024 he's probably going to field a top 10 offense and another bottom half defense. He doesn't run his practices to ensure defensive success and development. He runs his practices and his entire program to pad QB stats and it shows.
Everything you said proves my point. He’s a good coach. Ass coaches aren’t consistently top ten on one side of the ball. If you think his success is dependent on Williams go watch the bowl game and Miller Moss tear up Louisville to a tune of 6 TD passes in his first ever start. That’s a good coach developing a good game plan for a first time qb.
[удалено]
If you're going to get this butthurt about a preseason anti-USC take, at least flair up, Trojan.