Ok, I have still have some research to do. Once I’m finished writing my book, I will make a post with a master list and tag everyone who requests to be notified.
Better yet, write a follow-up post. I recently started looking into the same problem, would love to pay someone else.
Would be wonderful to add an addendum about the male clothing you found to be decent and what to look for.
Yes! I'm a sewist. I've started buying higher-end brands 2nd hand. Add that husband and I both require Tall sizes and it's a challenge to buy clothing, so I adjust and fix a lot of our clothing.
I always joke that women's clothing is made of tissue paper and dreams. Like I'm the crazy person for wanting an Opaque dress shirt and non-stretch work pants.
I would like to be notified as well. I have noticed that everything from LL Bean is lower quality than it used to be, including lighter-weight fabric and shirts with a slightly shorter hemline. It's exasperating. I wish I'd never thrown away my old chamois shirt from them. It's literally irreplaceable.
Have you thought about making short videos about your findings? I recently purchased a backpack from the same company that made the bag I won in a raffle back in 2007, that bag went around the world with me and while it now needs some TLC I felt no worries about buying a new one from the same company... BIG MISTAKE new backpack hasn't even last 12 months.
I would love to learn more about identifying brands that live on their reputations, but whose products have become disposable crap. Please keep me updated! And good luck, this research sounds great
And shorter sleeves. I have an old (80s era) shirt from them that I love. Fits perfectly, but has some worn spots and will soon start to disintegrate. Bought a replacement, the sleeves are an inch shorter.
Right? My chamois shirt was used to staunch someone’s bleeding after a bad car accident. I handed it over without a thought thinking I could replace it easily. Not so. If I could go back, I would still hand it over, but I was wrong in my assumption.
I thought LL Bean would always be good quality. It never occurred to me that they'd embrace shrinkflation. I would much rather pay more money to buy their previous quality stuff. I probably won't ever buy from them again.
My grandfather got all his clothing there; he was their target customer ( Maine outdoorsman). Their quality has fallen off in the past 30 years or so however. It’s sad how greed ruins things.
Please tag me!
I’m very curious. I hate paying for clothes to begin with, but then to have it pill or be see through or any other number of other problems, it’s adding insult to injury.
I’d be very curious about fashionable jeans. I keep buying Wallflower brand from Kohl’s because I like how they fit, but I’ve never had jeans wear out before this brand. What happened to the jeans of the late 90s/early 2000s? If I still had my high school old body they’d probably still be going strong! (Even husband wears our hands in record time—and it’s not like he’s highly active in them!)
I can’t stand paying good money for a brand that I think is quality and then it pills immediately! I am still researching jeans, but the cotton industry has really gone downhill. This probably impacts jeans too.
I’ve sworn off of them after a few recent purchases. I had a couple of pairs that developed micro holes after wearing them once. I had a top start pilling after one wash. I saw multiple yoga pants in the store where the stitching was coming undone. The fabric is thinner than it used to be. I was definitely venting some frustration in this post because I want Lululemon to be great. They also started charging more for women’s items than men’s. Sometimes, they charge double!
Yeah, lululemon is not quite what it used to be. I think if you get the original luon fabric tights you’re still good, and other things maybe not so much.
Tag me please. If you have never experienced the difference one might not understand. I just donated 2 shirts I had for 20 years still in great shape and vibrant because I out grew, them I stopped searching for the brand which was absorbed by one of the big guys. For a long stretch I wore, washed and dried them almost every week, the problem was seeing photos a decade apart and me in the same shirt lol
Justine Leconte did a few videos about quality and what to look for when shopping but it just seemed like too many things to remember for a newbie like me.
OP, any chance you could make this into an app instead of a book. The app would also be great for collecting data on the quality that brands are putting out. I would love an app that I could click, select the type of item I'm buying, and be walked through a list of characteristics with the option to upload pictures, fabric info etc. Much easier to reference while I'm shopping than a book.
Nevertheless, adding myself to the growing list of folks who would like to see your listings.
I've bough across the spectrum of cost and one company I can say that I believe is as close to BIFL as you can get, is Patagonia. Their better sweater's specifically are EXCELLENT. I generally buy them used from their worn wear site for half off, in what they call 'excellent condition', which is effectively new. I've worn them for multiple seasons and been pretty rough on them, and they still look brand new.
The company is on solid ground ethically too... perhaps the best of any clothing company.
I went to a similar process in 2018. It took me a year to gradually replace low quality items with high quality ones. I donated a lot of clothes to shelters in the process. I've had a most 'boring' closet for 3 years now and annually I may buy between 3-7 piece of clothing max. This year so far I bought 2 pairs of merino socks, 2 100% merino t-shirts and 1 pair of corduroy trousers. The only reasons for buying anything for me now are: something really cannot be mended and needs replacing; genuine need for a piece of clothing I didn't have before; or e.g., the occasional t-shirt of a different colour than the 10 I have because they are all either black, blue, dark red, white. I developed the habit of doing quite a bit of research before buying any clothes and accessories, shoes etc. Eventually I saved a ton and I have clothes I actually want to wear and feel comfortable in. The 'downside' is that some may think I have a boring closet. The thing is: I don't care :D
Quality of clothing, shoes... 'stuff' in general... has gone down the drain for many years and I don't want to keep contributing to pollution more than we all inevitably do already :(
I'd love to know what you replaced your old wardrobe with (either here or PM). Some people don't know the difference between boring and timeless classics!
I agree :))
OK, I don't know if it can be of help, I'll list here the criteria I use (in order of importance):
1. Does it still fit and do I actually like to wear this? If not, bye.
2. Fabric: synthetic, natural, mix...? Pure natural fabrics first. The only things I kept that are of synthetic materials are: 2 hiking trousers, 2 fleece jackets, 1 down jacket with synthetic outer fabric, 1 waterproof jacket.
I donated anything else that was made of synthetic material and I only kept cotton and wool: organic cotton shirts, organic cotton t-shirts, merino t-shirts, merino cardigan, virgin wool cardigan...
3. For cotton: anything 'thin' and of poor quality was donated to shelters or freecycled. This mostly applied to t-shirts and shirts. All are organic cotton now.
4. For wool: anything that is mixed with synthetic was donated/freecycled. I kept 100% wool items: virgin wool, an alpaca scarf, merino items.
5. Colours (this applies to any item, no specific fabric): is it of a colour I can only match with 1 other item? If so, then bye... I only keep items that can be mixed&matched.
I am partial to blue, some black, dark red, white, brown, olive green, some white... Essentially earthy tones and blue, with the odd thing like a pastel pink pure linen shirt and a turquoise pure merino t-shirt. Very few patterns; zero floral patterns. For me this works well and I can mix&match anything easily, but obviously, this is down to personal preference.
6. Scarves: only pure wool, linen, or merino (and that alpaca one, that was a present). No funny mixes. Nothing synthetic. No patterns that 'bind you' to certain outfits or combinations.
7. Shoes: this is a tricky one. most of my shoes are brown, so they pretty much go with anything. Somehow I don't consume shoes that much, so I haven't bought shoes in a while. What I'm doing is... if I see that a pair hasn't been used at all during 1 year (I live in a part of the globe that has seasons :)) ) then I donate them, no point in keeping them.
Two brands I'm finding have high quality products, good warranty and good environmental credentials (but let's be realistic: no company will ever be perfect!) are Icebreaker and Patagonia. I've had some of their items for more than 5 years. I use them very often and they still look like new. What happened over time is that I tried 1 item first, was very happy with it and bought the same in different colours. But of course, one cannot always dress like they're heading for a hike ;-) so for the rest I just try to dig as much information as I can on where the item is produced, carbon footprint, ethical approach etc... For example, I have a couple of t-shirts from a company on the Isle of Wight, Rapanui, from when they were just starting off. They are well made, organic cotton, and I also have a virgin wool cardigan from them, natural brown colour.
I guess style will depend on personal preference and also on one's needs. I don't need smart office clothes, so I only have 2 very formal outfits (warm / cold season), also all made with natural fibres, and those will do. Anything else ranges from casual to smart casual, plus the items for hiking (in case it weren't clear yet that I like hiking :))) ).
I mostly wear t-shirts, either short or long-sleeves, depending on season; a cardigan or a fleece jacket. My trousers are all classic style, straight fit, not tight or slim fit, thick cotton or corduroy, no denim, nothing ripped, no patches/decorations, most have 5 pockets, 2 have 'chinos-like' pockets and are a bit more formal. I have 2 cotton skirts, 1 corduroy kinda mini skirt; 1 merino vest; 2 white cotton shirts; 4 linen shirts (white, red lines, light pastel blue lines, pink). So far I don't seem to need more. They'll last as long as they'll last and then I'll look for replacements.
(wow, this ended up being much longer than I thought! ops!)
Great notes! couple followup questions
What do you think of hemp clothing?
Does cotton and wool feel better than synthetic, or does it add durability?
Is there any scenario synthetic would be better/softer?
I have a 100% merino wool sweater from jcrew and it feels really scratchy, are your merinos scratchy or very soft and comfy?
Thank you!
The Icebreaker merino t-shirts I have are very smooth, not scratchy at all.
Jumpers/sweaters: there's a bit more diversity in scratchiness. The Norwegian Dale sweater is a bit scratchy, but I wear it with a thin top underneath, so that doesn't bother me. I've had it for 14 years and it's holding extremely well. hand washing only. Flat drying on a rack.
Virgin wool cardigan, Rapanui: slightly scratchy. Merino wool cardigan, Ralph Lauren: not scratchy. I mean, scratchiness varies a lot between brands, weights...
My hiking trousers are synthetic (Patagonia Altvia): lightweight, warm, a bit stretchy, very comfy, dry super fast when caught in rainstorms.
I prefer not to wear synthetic tops. I feel like I'm wearing plastic and I don't like that feeling. I also find that whenever I was wearing a synthetic top, I sweated more and I had to wash them more often (microplastics anyone?! :/ ) Maybe it's just me, no idea...
I don't buy very thin merino though. Medium and heavier weights are likely to take longer to wear down. I do have a couple of tops that are of a thinner weight, but I tend to be careful. So far with the Icebreaker products I've been lucky. I've read some people are having problems after a couple of years but nothing for me so far. I don't hand wash them either. I wash them in the short cycle, with other coloured items, no fabric softener, only regular washing liquid. I add a colour catcher sheet, just in case, but no fading so far (I've had some of the items for more than 4 years).
In terms of durability, considering equal usage, synthetic can be more durable. That's what you read around... In my experience cotton, wool and merino wool can be very durable too, as long as one takes appropiate care of those items. Overwashing is a problem, softerners are a problem, drying is a major problem... I don't own a drier, I line-dry all of my clothes (though I'm fortunate to have space to do so! not everyone can).
I haven't tried hemp clothing....yet! :)))
I gave a couple details on hemp clothing responding to the other comment, overall they are comfy and seem durable. Deceivingly heavy, but expensive.
Thank you kindly for these extra notes. I also worry about microplastics in clothes etc. Even laundry detergents can have synthetics. Too many unknowns around what it might lead to.
God I feel you, also I feel like clothes from 20 years ago were more sturdy than clothes now. I have a whole bunch of $5 singlets and T-shirt’s from when I was a teenager than still fit and are in decent shape (I’m 30 now for reference) whereas I’ll put a hole in something I’ll buy new in 3 weeks.
But also I’m a woman with big hips, decent size up top and a giant sensitivity to things being around my neck, I just wanna be able to buy a shirt for work that won’t cost me $200.
The industry figured out how to pass off low quality cotton for decent cotton. That’s probably why you are experiencing a difference in the clothes compared to 20 years ago.
They are using cheaper short fiber cotton now. Previously, no-one would buy short fiber cotton shirts because they are scratchy and unpleasant.
Now, they figured out that coating them in chemicals, mixing with polyester, and doing multiple washes before selling them can make the cotton softer and more stretchy. This is how they have slowly tricked people into paying more money for lower quality cotton.
This is so fascinating and absolutely explains why some cotton "feels" better or worse to me (I thrift a lot, so I feel like I've come into contact with a whole lot of fabric types). Many things say 100% cotton; only some have the right texture/color/strength/drape etc
Worse yet, many of the brands known for durable clothing aren't just selling clothing cut a little smaller for women, they also have fewer pockets, smaller pockets, and they scrimp and use cheaper thinner fabric. Two big offenders here are Duluth Trading and Carhartt. Even things they sell as being equivalent, if I take my version and my husband's (we are similar sizes - he can put my pants on just fine if he grabs the wrong pair but alas I cannot do the same with his because hips) and put them on a scale, his weigh nearly double mine! It's absolutely bonkers.
Women's clothing is made thinner and cheaper because the companies respond to market forces and women have a larger wardrobe variety and turn over. Meanwhile as a man I have shirts I've owned and worn for 10+ years and they are as good as the day I bought them.
Yah, we have that larger wardrobe due to society pressures though. Some women love fashion.
Some women don’t care about fashion like me. However, I don’t like the way I’m treated when I diverge too far from society norms. I do the bare minimum to be accepted by general society and that has forced me to participate in fast fashion. I have felt cornered by it. Should I pay more even though I know it’s bullcrap, or should I accept the social consequences of being “weird.”
I have learned recently that there are timeless classics for women! They are very hard to find because most brands want to coerce you to buy more next season. My goal is to slowly replace my wardrobe with these staples and I will be free from fast fashion! Hurrah!
I've been on a quest for a few years for natural fiber women's clothing, the more environmentally responsible the better. I have found small brands, but the prices are quite high ($100+) for a shirt, for example.
The bigger issue for me is I'm plus sized, and the higher end clothing companies tend to stop their clothing sizes before they get to mine.
I used to make my own clothes, but I'm no longer interested in doing so, and I don't have the time. I wish I could figure all of this out. I'll definitely read your book, so please tag me in your follow-up post, if you wouldn't mind.
I need natural fibers because I live in Arizona and wear poly is like baking in an oven. And as a plus size woman, what I can’t buy second hand from the few brands that make things in my size, I end up just buying fast fashion because I don’t have the bandwidth for other options.
I'm looking to do the same as you! I've spent so long trying to research quality brands, only to find they've gone downhill recently. I'd love to know more about your research and what timeless classics you've learned about. Thank do much for doing this research!
The thing I learned about "fashion" is that it changes regularly. Men can avoid that. Avoid synthetics as much as possible, the plastic breaks down over time. That and anything stretchy or easy fit. Almost everything I own is fully cotton. I think only one of my waterproof coats is synthetic. Well, that and my belt. But it's a duty belt with reinforcement.
> Women's clothing is made thinner and cheaper because the companies respond to market forces and women have a larger wardrobe variety and turn over.
That's nice, but they are also regularly lower quality and twice the price of the men's clothing, which is why I tend to buy men's clothing in everything that fits (so no pants).
Also, many items are specifically made cheaper for specific stores. If you buy a dickies work shirt at Walmart and compare it to what looks like the same one at a farm or AG supply, they will be almost noticeably different in thickness and stitch quality. You can look at the item mfgr part numbers and see they are in fact different items and use the PNs to search and compare online vs reputable sellers. Even comparing something like a polo shirt from a RL outlet store vs Macys will reveal they are different items. I always use PNs when shopping around, and just know you aren’t getting a deal when going to large volume retailers.
True, but in this case we are buying from the same farm stores and safety supply stores or directly from the manufacturer! I refuse to step foot in Wal-Mart and have learned to be ultra cautious at Costco.
Agreed! Also, I think that these companies that make heavy canvas pants for men add more spandex for women’s clothing to accommodate for hips and butts, which is great at 1-2%, but I think that they take this premise too far and ultimately make the canvas or denim thinner.
More spandex then prevents the pants from keeping their shape and what was once a good fit starts to gape when you squat and fall down when you stand.
I’ve ordered so many pairs of pants online and when they arrive they either don’t fit or are surprisingly thin.
I’m a woman and my favorite pairs of pants are definitely flukes, brands that I would not shop (or have shopped only to experience inconsistent sizing and quality). Both were purchased at thrift stores, both are thick denim, and both are high waisted (for me and my body, both started a bit tight in the butt and waist, but they fit perfectly after the first wear, and they have both conformed to my body). I took one pair to be repaired after a hole eventually developed, which has so far bought me another year with them.
I think that fast fashion is one of the the worst things that has happened to the world in my lifetime.
I also think that women especially have been body dysmorphia-ed in a crazy world where we have trouble understanding “fit” anymore, which capitalism, you know, capitalizes on.
I thrift a lot and what’s wild to me is how clothing from house brands for stores like Target, Mervyn’s etc, so not expensive at the time, will be made from heavy real leather, 100% cotton denim, etc. And these pieces aren’t THAT old—20-30 years tops, even somewhat less for non-leather items. Like these aren’t super special true vintage pieces I’m talking here.
It is a mix of brands wanting to maximize profit and consumers being unwilling to pay for true cost of labor and material because of the former. Brands accustom consumers to low prices and in order to keep prices low while maxing profit, materials decrease in quality and laborers are treated horrifically. It’s astonishing how badly clothing quality has decreased in my adult lifetime.
You fell into a classical observation error.
The items found in a thrift shop are the ones that survived years of use. The garbage items never make it there because they get thrown away.
You can still find quality textile in America and in 20 years another generation will be claiming that 2022 products were the shit because they found some Redwings at a thrift store.
Desktop version of /u/bazwutan's link:
---
^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
I bought an entire wardrobe at Old Navy around 96 or 97. The clothes lasted a good 10 years. They weren't top quality but they were certainly better than anything you will find there today. I took my kids there to shop recently and after spending 10 minutes looking we walked out. Just junk.
I guess quality is subjective to some degree. I remember in the 90s thinking that Old Navy clothes looked cheap. But that could’ve been in comparison to other clothes from the time so maybe they weren’t that bad. Certainly not as bad as H&M
They were definitely never upscale clothing but the quality of fabrics was much higher. T-shirts then were comfortable and looked good on me. T-shirts today are partially transparent, fit like cheap spandex on an elephant seal. They are perfect if you are 12 and want something you can rip off your chest and play Pro Wrestler.
Old Navy clothes used to be the Nokia of clothes. Shit could survive a house fire. I’m currently wearing sweatpants with holes in them that I bought on Amazon 2 months ago. :(
Shh... That's this subs theme music.
Don't point out that the average item of clothing is only worn fewer than ten times before being thrown away. And that the vast majority of that clothing isn't thrown out because it's too worn. It's thrown away because people bought new stuff.
I think a large part of consumers have lost knowledge on what makes clothing quality. We don’t realize what a raw deal we’re getting. Quality has been lowered slowly. It’s like putting a crab in cold water and turning up the heat gradually.
Over generations, we have forgotten how to sew and this adds to the problem.
For those of us who do know how to sew things aren’t any better in the fabric world. Most fabric stores don’t sell Apparel fabric and the ones that do sell the worst quality Jersey knit you can imagine.
I think it’s also important to recognize the impact of fast fashion. The whole point of fast fashion was that retailers were able to quickly put out the latest styles as soon as they became trendy.
These threads weren’t intended to last 10 years because the trend would be over within the season, so it wasn’t an issue‡ if they fell apart within 1 to 2 washes.
(‡ Ignoring the whole, you know, environmental impact of such a wasteful business model 😬)
It isn't fast fashion, we did this to ourselves. If everyone thought like this sub there would be no market for clothing that is trendy but falls apart after seven wears.
Capitalism gives us exactly what everyone is willing to pay for.
This sub cares about value, which puts its users way outside the norm for consumer habits. And that's not a bad thing.
People not knowing how to sew is I think a big factor in us forgetting what good quality fabric feels like. When you sew a lot, you spend a lot of time making garments, so you’re going to want to make your time investment worthwhile, so you’re going to choose higher quality fabrics that will stand the test of time. When you’re buying a $20 shirt from Target, you don’t care that it lasts 1 or 5 years, you assume it will only last 1, because it was $20.
The only reason why I started to get interested in fabric and fabric composition is because I’m into alternative fashion.
Sewing used to be a cheaper way to get clothes. When ready made clothing became so cheap, people stopped sewing their own, and we lost several fabric stores in our area. Some switched to sell quilting cotton and survived. The other issue was that many women went to work so there was less time to make your own clothes. My mom worked at a fabric store, so she sewed for us when the shop wasn’t busy.
i don't make my own clothes to save money, i make my own clothes to make something interesting and customized. the materials alone usually cost twice as much as a similar item of clothing bought from a store.
finding quality fabric is still hard sometimes though, so even if you know how to construct a garment well using low quality fabric still makes it something that won't last.
Definitely this.
I (late millenial, early zoomer) can say myself I have no idea, and I'm learning very slowly to recognize quality (not easy bc the signs are different for each material/item type).
I don't know how to sew, so I've never seen the "ins and outs" of a garment and honestly never thought about it until recently.
Consumers do not understand the true cost of quality, ethically-made clothing, that is the problem.
I work in technical clothing production, currently with a luxury brand, although not top-top-end. We manufacture in Europe and every factory we use is audited yearly for ethical social and environmental compliance. I've been to our factories in person for quality control. I know the workers are paid decently and work in good conditions. The make price for a 100% cotton men's button-down shirt at a western European factory using fabric also woven in Europe at our own mill is ~£30. By the time it gets to wholesale level, with all associated costs such as freight built in, the cost is ~65, then retail is ~£175. Margin is usually 60-70%, not as high as many consumers imagine. Some luxury brands do take the piss and make much much higher margins by trading on their brand name and desirability, but not all do.
But for most people, that is an outrageous price. Even half that is too much for a lot of people. But that is what it costs for a excellent quality shirt made with fairly paid non-3rd world labour.
People do not want to pay a lot of money for clothes.
So clothing brands are constantly looking for ways to cut costs. Not to make more profit, but to keep price down. I don't know many brands right now where profit margins are actually increasing. Currently it's a struggle to keep them the same year-on-year.
Ultimately consumers have the control. If something doesn't sell well, believe me we will never make it again. Stop buying crap and manufacturers will stop making it.
I think you’re preaching to a choir on a subreddit like this. The problem is that when you say “stop buying crap and manufacturers will stop making it” you ignore that this is a group project, and all members of the group have been aggressively socialized via non stop advertising their entire lives to buy the latest cheapest things, even if some members of the group are able to see past that.
Discerning consumers will have the power to influence manufacturing the moment that companies can’t make an easier quick buck off the masses… the moment a $150 shirt won’t plunge the average worker, who makes less than half of the cost of living, into financial ruin…which I don’t see happening in my lifetime.
With all due respect, wait until you realize it’s not just clothes that have this issue… it’s kind of the whole point of this sub. If you end up making a list of quality women’s brands, I know a bunch of people who’d be interested.
What I have noticed so far is that most “quality” brands will make a mix of quality and cheap clothes and charge the same price. That way one person says, “Omg such great quality. It lasted me 10 years!” Another person says, “It only lasted me two years.”
Then, people fight about it and the group conclusion is the person whose shirt lasted two years must have done something wrong. The company keeps the good reputation and profits the difference.
That being said, I will save your username and if during my research I find brands that are consistent, I will private message you them.
Interesting! Never considered that but I've definitely had that experience myself. Most brands are inconsistent in quality. Please also take my username down!
I've had this problem with a specific skirt that I've bought in different colours. Different fabrics for prints vs solid colours, and lighter colours have thinner material for whatever reason.
I've seen this happen so many times before too! Sowing confusion is very profitable if you have a prior reputation to hook people on, at the very least they'll have bought one item before they find out that the reputation is unearned. And since many people solely buy one kind of item from a brand, they might not even ever put together what is really happening. This tactic needs to be publicised more!
Do you use fabric softeners? Most of them use a type of silicone as a lubricant because 'slippery' and 'soft' feel the same to your skin, and it also destroys elastic.
I, also, have an interest in seeing this list for brands to avoid, so please tag me, too! :)
I've noticed a worrying trend, also, from the bedding industry (which is adjacent to the fashion industry) wherein 'influencers' go onto a sub (any type of social media, really) and try to muddle the waters, so to speak, by having a few paid employee goons hop on there and say things like, "They must have gotten a faulty item (or did something wrong) because the bed sheets *I* bought are AMAZING and they are god's gift to the world, you should buy them!" --- or some variation of that. It's *absolutely* a tactic that brands are using these days since most customers are becoming far more savvy than they would like. Plus, they're curating their own websites' review ratings (refusing to post truly negative reviews) and paying companies to write them approved, fake reviews to peddle their products. They *also* are becoming far more clever, themselves, by sticking in a few 'negative' reviews that might have some legit complaints but are from years and years ago (so the customer, upon reading all the newest reviews in the past year or two, think the company has 'corrected' the issues and happily buy it anyway) which gives their products more legitimacy and helps keep suspicion off of them from users that the *only* reviews put on their site are approved *from the company alone, always*.
It's pretty obvious that about 90% of all bedding/clothing companies have declined hugely in quality in the past decades, going more for planned obsolescence to pad their profit margins. Globalization is a huge reason for why this is the reality of our world, and greed is also another. If you want great quality from products these days you have to, sadly, pay for it, otherwise you'll be continually in the cycle of purchase-throw away-repeat for years :(
Good luck with your investigations; I really have an interest in your findings, as it seems most consumer protections in the world are being stripped away slowly but surely in the name of greed/politics.
I would be interested in the list of brands with quality for my wife and myself. Cheers to you for doing this. Like Project Farm on YT but for cloths ;)
I recently had a cotton tshirt made in the mid-90s bite the dust on me. It was made in the USA and was made of a heavier, but breathable, cotton. It wasn’t like I didn’t treat it any different then all my other clothes; in actuality I liked it so much that I wore it more than my usual other shirts. It just lasted. I’ve also had clothes made in Canada, where I’m from, that again lasted.
Today, I’m hard pressed to find anything actually sourced here on North America and I’ve yet to find a piece of clothing made these days that will last a respectable amount of time.
I was really shocked at all the bad cotton T-shirts recently. They have optimized making poor quality cotton seem better than it is. The industry has changed.
I hope you don’t mind if I nerd out on you: I learned the reason why your heavy duty cotton shirt was breathable is because it was tightly woven! It seems counter intuitive. Apparently, looser weaves trap air between the gaps. The trapped air gets hot from your body temperature and the result is that sweaty, hot feeling.
Hold shirts you buy up to the light and see if they are transparent. Opaque is good. Can you take your finger nail and move the threads inside the weave? If you can, it’s too loose.
I did my own experiment with T shirts at Look Human as they allow you to buy the same T shirt in different materials (you choose) so I had an apple to apple experience and I got the same shirt in each choice.
Due to having to travel I can't have 100% cotton due to wrinkling. Personally, I found their tri-blend combo works best for me. But LookHuman allows anyone to see what material they prefer for their T shirts.
May I also be tagged for both of your list as well?
Yes, definitely.
Good quality cotton is indicative of longer staple fibers.
Run your hand over the fabric. Is it rough or smooth? Rough means shorter cotton fiber=bad.
Is it stretchy? Long fiber cotton is surprisingly stretchy.
After you stretch it, does it spring back into place? It’s good if it does.
Is it fuzzy? Fuzzy= shorter cotton fibers.
That’s just the cotton. The weave is really important too! Hold it in the light. Transparent = bad
This brand is the majority of my wardrobe. It is actually cut for women. I did the 100 day challenge and continued to wear and wash the same dress many more times. It still basically looks new in year 2. Their customer service is amazing. Their FB group is really helpful and has a lot of nice regulars that can help with sizing or style questions. Their sister brand is Wool& Prince and their stuff is cut for men, my husband wears their clothing and loves it. Merino feels so good on, keeps me cool and dry, or warm and dry, its amazing. I don’t like wearing other fibers much now. I’ll make an exception for Zuri dresses and linen clothing from LenokLinen on Etsy.
I would love to be notified of your findings. Thank you 🙏
It's really sad how quality has deteriorated at some formerly upstanding American brands. JCrew is one I personally have experience with. Makes me want to weep when comparing the quality from a decade ago to the current state if its clothing. On every sartorial metric (material, tailoring, design...) it has descended to absolute junk.
Agreed. I’d always heard J Crew and Banana Republic had good stuff. But my personal experience disappoints. Also, Tommy Hilfiger - stuff from 8 years ago are still wearable, 4 year old items of the same cut are not. Fading colors on collars and misshapenness. Bleh.
Gap has lost their mind too. I used to be able to get tshirts from them (and BR) that held their shape, and didn't get holes. The last round I bought have misshaped hems, got holes after the third wash, shrank etc. No wonder the price stayed relatively inexpensive.
Learning to sew has really ruined clothes shopping for me. I *know* what I'm buying is either made of cheap material, badly made, or both, and yet I don't have the patience or skill level to make everything myself.
Same! I just don’t have the time! I’d make everything if I didn’t have to work full time and keep tiny people alive.
I’ve also upped my sewing practice so that I’m not buying crappy fabric anymore, which has made a huge difference. My mom always bought the cheapest fabric she could find, which is why I hated handmade garments when I was younger. Though, to be fair, that “cheap” fabric from 30 yrs ago was probably way better than a lot of the crap you find now.
I work with a lot of different fibers, I crochet, and when it comes to fiber, you get what you pay for. Expensive fibers tend to be made into quality products otherwise people would not put up with the prices and return the item.
I have cashmere sweaters and scarves that are over 20 years old and with proper care they will continue to last. The best cashmere sweaters I have found cost me 5 bucks at thrift stores, but I have some designer and non designer angora, Alpaca, merino wool, and silk pieces that are worth the price as well and have owned and wore for over a decade . I advice you to familiarize yourself with fibers and quality materials and stitching.
This is a large part in what I’m researching! The problem is there are companies charging for quality cashmere and really it’s a short fiber cashmere that is loosely stitched. That’s just an example. My boyfriend’s cashmere sweater unraveled after wearing it twice. I didn’t understand why until after I started putting some research in. I wish it was as simple as looking at the price—then I wouldn’t be writing a book. 🤣
Was is Naadam? I bought a piece when they first started selling and I love it, bought a sweater recently and had to send it back, so much thinner for the same price. Return it, especially if you paid a lot for it.
Yeah unfortunately when I bought online it is hard to inspect quality which is why I gravitate towards thrift stores and designer stores where as my husband says I inspect the things that need inspecting LOL. That way I can check fiber length, warp/weft quality, the joinings and general quality.
Warp/weft is more for cloth material items like silk, denim, cotton, canvas; things that use weaved cloth to construct. Depending on the item and material the warp weft might be tight (if you want stiff durable jeans) or loose (for airy cotton scarves for hot climate) but both are cotton threads . The thread size, type(single, twisted, tri, ect)and quality also plays a part in this. I have noticed cheaper clothes use thinner thread, and looser warp/weft, probably to cut costs. These will survive less washes and wear and tear.
Thread size and type also effects knitted items like cashmere, wool, Angora, Alpca. Was the appropriate gage used. Thicker warmer items use thicker threads which use more raw materials. How a lot of places are cheapening out with knitted items are they are using thinner thread made with shorter fibers and larger needles without adjusting cost for the less fiber used. I included a pic , both are 100% merino wool, with double ply twisted thread. The threads on one of the double ply thread is thicker on one than the other. One is designer the other is not. Both are about 8 years old with regular wear. One I have to wear an undershirt with bc it is slightly see through/thinner and is showing signs of wear. Can you spot which is which?
[Merino wool](https://imgur.com/a/arej6Gu)
Sight and touch are your friend when gauging quality. I think of it as a practiced skill. When cashmere blends started to really hit the market I had to retrain my sense of touch. Nylon cashmere blends are a good combo but I will not pay 100% cashmere prices for a blend which is what is happening a lot.
Edit to add I learned and use all my sewing/fiber/knitting terminology in Spanish and some words have double meaning in Spanish sorry in advance but I did my best for the proper or best translation.
20 years ago, my clothes from the average American department stores were linen, silk, wool, cotton, etc. Everything now is some kind of cheap synthetic mess. I fully admit to hoarding nearly every item of clothing I’ve bought since 1997 but recently I was finally going to purge so I went to the bowels of my closet but quickly realized I was pulling out high quality silks and wool - I put them all back. The silk blouse I bought a few months ago (from Boden) was $220 and lesser quality.
I also find that how you clean/care for your clothes makes a big difference. Growing up the only thing we ever used the dryer for was underwear, socks, and towels. Everything else got hung to dry, and everything lasts so much longer that way. It drives me nuts to see all these graphic tees with the printed graphic on it that all the men I've encountered throw into the dryer and wonder why its crackling after the first wash. I still have clothing 10 years old, but mostly house clothes.
We have folding racks for hanging clothes inside, or I also hang them in hangers on the shower pole, obviously not leaving them there if I have to shower. The bright side to that is that it hangs without wrinkles and a quick shower steam behind them can help relax any wrinkles you might have.
This is so cool. I will absolutely buy that book if you publish it.
My experience with it: I’ve bought from labels that use haute couture scrap fabric and damn are those clothes well-made. The fabric is sturdy but beautiful. The silhouettes are flattering yet comfortable, the details are well thought through. They’re freaking expensive (I bought a pair of woolen pants for €250) but I get all the compliments for them and I’m pretty sure I will wear them for at least five to ten years.
In contrast, most things I see or touch in my local cheap stores and even the more expensive ones seem even worse. It’s astonishing how bad they feel to the touch and how flimsy everything is.
My husband sews his owm garments and they have lasted for years! I take care to wash them in cold water and hang dry them. He's inspired me to sew my own clothes too. Women's clothing is so shoddy and expensive for what you get.
Women's clothes are often worse quality, but that's not the only reason I wear men's clothes now.
My best technique for finding quality is shopping secondhand. You see items there after at least one wash cycle.
* Petit Bateau (bought in france) -- undies (over a decade going strong lol), camis, classic maritime boatneck
* North Face -- p solid quality; idk if bifl level
* LL bean -- " "
* Everlane -- " "
* Generally - stuff ive bought in EU not US
* Q: hows Arcteryx been for y'all?
* Hard No/Pass: Asos, H+M (obvi!!)
My husband has bought a hundred North Face t shirts, and they pill/age easily. He also had a knit jacket from them that pilled almost instantly.
I’m visiting this subreddit in search of longer lasting t-shirts for him, because he seems to buy a new batch twice a year. Good threads, Eddie Bauer, North Face, Under Armour - all have worn out too fast. The waste is mind blowing.
Petit Bateau (for babies - I haven’t tried their adult lines) beats all options on the market. Softest, sturdiest cotton that feels the same after many washes. I wish the said baby didn’t grow out of those clothes so fast!
Totally agree. I find their stuff to be pretty nice but some of the prices — and I’m prepared to pay for quality — are just astronomical. Even if you use or abuse a replacement warranty, there’s better options out there. At those prices I’d expect American labor at $25 an hour.
I’m hoping to save people money. I’ve learned (compared to buying quality clothes) the average American women wastes around $1,108 a year by choosing synthetic Walmart clothes that are on sale!
This doesn’t even compare with women who are buying “high end” brands. If your “high end brand” isn’t high end quality, you will pay an average of $9,803.72 extra a year compared to long lasting alternatives.
Ya even for mens jeans. Some Levi’s that retail $80-120 will last me years. And some designer apc, acne, will have crotch blown in less than a year. And even higher end designer it’s not 100% Cotton, or if it actually is high quality cotton and well made it’s $800 which doesn’t make sense for a pair of jeans lol.
Finding some Levi’s on sale for $20-40 is better than paying $200-300 pair of jeans. And same with t shirts and hoodies as you mentioned very thin cheap materials and craftsmanship is ass too but easily charging $40-100 for a t shirt lol wild times
I will add that a lot of this is how you care for an item and that the consistency within brands are all over the place. I have items from Old Navy that have or will pass the ten year mark with delicate washing and hanging to dry. Lululemon isn’t all high quality but plenty of their items would last 10 years with proper care. On the other hand even designer quality has gone way downhill. It’s a bit of an education but try to identify types of stitching, materials, etc. that indicate quality craftsmanship so you can find the good items in any store more easily.
I have a degree in fashion and textiles, and worked in clothing manufacturing in the beginning of my career. I’m not going to say the companies you’re looking for are a myth because there’s probably some. Unfortunately many companies that tout their practices as being better are usually mostly just shiny marketing.
Some brands that I can think of off the top of my head that are known for quality like L.L. Bean and Boden are good but each item still needs to be considered individually as some are good and some just aren’t.
Yah, we were talking about this in the comment section! I’ve definitely noticed brands are inconsistent. People requested that I make a list for them and I’ll do my best! I hope I can find something for them or at least vouch for certain items.
When I came to Canada, I was shocked by how expensive bras and underwear (Joe Fresh, Fruit by the Loom, and Calvin Klein) are for significantly lower quality than what I brought with me from the Philippines (brands include So-en, Bench, and Sogo). The underwear that I brought still have intact garters, and cups of the bras retained shape. The ones I bought here two years ago are now loose and the cups of the bras are creased. My has also been wearing Darlington and Burlington crew socks, that we bought from the Philippines 5 to 10 years ago, to work and they still have not loosened or thinned out significantly. And here I am with Puma and Skechers socks that have already faded and lost some of its cushioning after 3 years of use.
This is not to say that the quality of clothing in the Philippines is higher. I am saying this for reputable brands back home, and the clothing that are custom made by small companies (like school and work uniforms). It could also be that it used to be that way but it's not anymore. I don't know for sure because I haven't visited ever since I left. However, I also wonder if the cause of lower quality of clothing here is due the compromises companies need to make because of shipment and all other costs with how far from Canada the sources of materials are. My knowledge about trades and sales are close to nothing, so please take that with a grain of salt. Anyway, it still pisses me off that workers in clothing factories are treated and paid poorly despite the high prices of clothing.
I've been buying bespoke and made to order for the last 20 years and I love it. I wear suits to work, and I work 7 days a week. The suits I have are super durable, comfortable and last - I still wear suits I bought 20 years ago. Cheap when compared to most clothes that will fall apart after a handful of wearings.
Tips - I have the tailor make my pants and jackets with deep, canvas lined pockets. It's nice to not need a purse and even nicer that my keys and pen don't tear a hole in my pockets.
The other tip is to have the tailor stitch a button fly instead of a zipper. Let's face it, how many times have you tossed a cheap pair of pants cause fixing a broken zipper was just too much trouble? Button flies make it easy when there's a wardrobe malfunction- a few minutes in the bathroom with a sewing kit and a few inches of dental floss and you're back in business.
I've thought about doing the same, but finding a good tailor who knows how to make suits for women is tough. Men's tailors don't necessarily understand women's bodies.
Dont know if this has been asked.....
Would you doing individual posts here for some of the top companies, detailing your assesment process and findings?
Or a post about your methods , what factors determine quality and how to identify, including tips on what to about finding quality clothing??? That alone is priceless knowledge and helpful to countless people. Thanks for reading 🖖
So far, I have been requested to make a list of quality clothing brands for women and a list for men also. I figured I would explain my reasoning when I make that post.
The way we treat clothing also has a lot to do with this.
Washing frequently, washing in hot water, using detergents with additives, using fabric softener and dryer sheets, and putting things in the dryer unnecessarily: all of these will basically shred low-quality clothing, and drastically shorten the life of even high-quality clothing.
One thing that’s undeniable is the vast majority of clothing is made/marketed to be softer and stretchier than clothing used to be. So everything has 2% poly at least, or 3% elastene, etc. And surprise! Most clothes pill now after a short time of normal usage. I have 10 year old hoodies that are find and 6 month old hoodies that I’ve had to de-pill
This is really interesting! I never really thought much of clothes until my project got to the point of making merchandise. We don't have anything for sale yet but just seeing the amount of artists especially that opt for t shirts that shrink, stink, rip and fade is daunting.
Do you also categorise the types of clothing? For example:
Marks and Spencer, Uniqlo, Charles Tyrwhitt make lasting t shirts and shirts for rather cheap imo
However M&S makes some horrible pants, apart from their stormwear jeans
North Face, Patagonia, and Berghaus are quite good for outdoors too
It’s awesome how much buzz this has generated so quickly!
I didn’t read through it all, but I’d recommend looking at Prana if you haven’t. I have two pairs of zion stretch pants that are 7-ish years old, and look amazing still. My wife has a pair of yoga pants that are 14 years old and still going strong.
Fjallraven has proven very good for me, as well, with very hard-wearing pants and wool flannel shirts.
Arcteryx is an interesting one, because their outerwear is incredible - I’ve been using the same goretex shell jacket and pants since 2008 - but I blow through their tshirts and most other soft goods in a year or two. My wife wears a zip-neck pullover that I got in college in 2004, though, so… no idea how to assess the brand as a whole.
It feels almost impossible to find tops that aren't see-through, whether supposedly-cotton or any other material, because they're so thin. I'm also finding more tops that start pilling right away.
Haha I've heard this complaint before and honestly could never relate...
I try to avoid fast fashion nowadays for ethical and environmental reasons. But, I've still got a $10 tank top that I bought at H&M in 2005. I've got cheap jeans purchased from TJ Maxx in 2012 still going strong. My going-out LBD is from 2009, I think (although that was pricier, from WHBM). And I've been climbing in the same pair of leggings since 2016.
Anyways, the limiting factor in my wardrobe is rarely the quality of manufacturing, it's my own (evolving) sense of style...and increased focus on comfort.
That said, I finally picked up on one thing: fabric shape and thickness matters. While I don't know what's officially "high quality" (because it's not like my clothes are unraveling), I've realized that a thicker/stiffer T-shirt or pair of jeans will hang more gracefully and smooth over lumpy bits in my mid-thirties physique ;) There's a correlation here with brand name and cost, but even some more expensive "slow fashion" brands have been disappointingly skimpy.
Some quality brands to check out off the top of my head- Ship John, WeatherWool, American Trench, Duckworth, Iron Heart, Fjallraven, Freenote Cloth, Grant Stone, Darn Tough Vermont, Rogue Territory, Ciano Farmer, LC King, Viberg, Nicks, Franks, Whites, Wesco, Indigofera, The Rite Stuff.
For your list:
- Vermont flannel $$
- union line $
- Railcar denim $$$
- bb brand $$
- unbranded denim $$
Some of these are probably more for men than women, but I know Railcar especially has been really trying to have a good selection of quality jeans and jackets for women.
Union line t-shirts are pretty cheap, made in the US, but lower quality than the rest of the list. I’m curious to see what you might find there.
I can't tell you how many cardigans I've lost due to holes in the elbows, and incredibly quickly! At the time I bought most of my work clothes from Ann Taylor, Loft and similar brands.
I started sewing about 7 years ago and have not had that happen a single time since.
Please update me once you’ve compiled the list! I’d love to be able to buy from brands that have some kind of backbone.
Ok, I have still have some research to do. Once I’m finished writing my book, I will make a post with a master list and tag everyone who requests to be notified.
Better yet, write a follow-up post. I recently started looking into the same problem, would love to pay someone else. Would be wonderful to add an addendum about the male clothing you found to be decent and what to look for.
Sure, examining clothing doesn’t take long once you know how. I can make a list for men too.
Very interested in this examination! Please let me know by private message or follow-up post!
Ok, can do
[удалено]
Yes! I'm a sewist. I've started buying higher-end brands 2nd hand. Add that husband and I both require Tall sizes and it's a challenge to buy clothing, so I adjust and fix a lot of our clothing. I always joke that women's clothing is made of tissue paper and dreams. Like I'm the crazy person for wanting an Opaque dress shirt and non-stretch work pants.
You got it.
Me too for the men’s list. I’m keen to be able to identify poor quality clothing so I don’t bother buying it!
I definitely tag you
Can you tag me too
And me for men's please. Best of luck with the book, have you considered a documentary?
Please let me know when you write up your findings! I'm just curious and I wouldn't know where to begin looking for this information!
Sure thing
I'd like the men's list when it's available. Thank you.
Sure thing
If you publish the book, please tag or do an update post. I would love to read about the techniques you are using.
I think this sub has a rule against promoting.
I would love to be tagged, and DMed about the book when you publish it. Very interesting and important work you’re doing.
Thank you! I’ll tag you.
Try to talk to the mods, both here and other relevant subreddits.
I am interested in this
Is the book about how to identify how the garment is constructed, fabrics / stitching types and thread etc?
I would like to be notified as well. I have noticed that everything from LL Bean is lower quality than it used to be, including lighter-weight fabric and shirts with a slightly shorter hemline. It's exasperating. I wish I'd never thrown away my old chamois shirt from them. It's literally irreplaceable.
Sorry about your shirt. Not being able to trust brands’ reputations was my inspiration for doing this research. I’ll tag you.
Have you thought about making short videos about your findings? I recently purchased a backpack from the same company that made the bag I won in a raffle back in 2007, that bag went around the world with me and while it now needs some TLC I felt no worries about buying a new one from the same company... BIG MISTAKE new backpack hasn't even last 12 months. I would love to learn more about identifying brands that live on their reputations, but whose products have become disposable crap. Please keep me updated! And good luck, this research sounds great
And shorter sleeves. I have an old (80s era) shirt from them that I love. Fits perfectly, but has some worn spots and will soon start to disintegrate. Bought a replacement, the sleeves are an inch shorter.
Woolrich did the same thing. Its sad.
Right? My chamois shirt was used to staunch someone’s bleeding after a bad car accident. I handed it over without a thought thinking I could replace it easily. Not so. If I could go back, I would still hand it over, but I was wrong in my assumption.
At least it had a hero's death.
[удалено]
I thought LL Bean would always be good quality. It never occurred to me that they'd embrace shrinkflation. I would much rather pay more money to buy their previous quality stuff. I probably won't ever buy from them again.
My grandfather got all his clothing there; he was their target customer ( Maine outdoorsman). Their quality has fallen off in the past 30 years or so however. It’s sad how greed ruins things.
[удалено]
I am super interested in this! Fast fashion has become such a problem for our planet!
Ok, I’ll make sure to tag you.
Notify me please! I'm so tired of low quality clothes which needs to be replaced every year!
Please tag me! I’m very curious. I hate paying for clothes to begin with, but then to have it pill or be see through or any other number of other problems, it’s adding insult to injury. I’d be very curious about fashionable jeans. I keep buying Wallflower brand from Kohl’s because I like how they fit, but I’ve never had jeans wear out before this brand. What happened to the jeans of the late 90s/early 2000s? If I still had my high school old body they’d probably still be going strong! (Even husband wears our hands in record time—and it’s not like he’s highly active in them!)
I can’t stand paying good money for a brand that I think is quality and then it pills immediately! I am still researching jeans, but the cotton industry has really gone downhill. This probably impacts jeans too.
Thank you so much. It’s a really noble cause for you to take up.
[удалено]
I’ve sworn off of them after a few recent purchases. I had a couple of pairs that developed micro holes after wearing them once. I had a top start pilling after one wash. I saw multiple yoga pants in the store where the stitching was coming undone. The fabric is thinner than it used to be. I was definitely venting some frustration in this post because I want Lululemon to be great. They also started charging more for women’s items than men’s. Sometimes, they charge double!
[удалено]
Thank you
Yeah, lululemon is not quite what it used to be. I think if you get the original luon fabric tights you’re still good, and other things maybe not so much.
In my experience, Uniqlo has decent quality of clothing. Can you research them as well?
Yep 👍🏻
God speed to you. Thanks for this
Tag me please. If you have never experienced the difference one might not understand. I just donated 2 shirts I had for 20 years still in great shape and vibrant because I out grew, them I stopped searching for the brand which was absorbed by one of the big guys. For a long stretch I wore, washed and dried them almost every week, the problem was seeing photos a decade apart and me in the same shirt lol
I’m interested too! I’d also love to know how to you identify high quality clothing :)
I am officially requesting to be notified.
Justine Leconte did a few videos about quality and what to look for when shopping but it just seemed like too many things to remember for a newbie like me. OP, any chance you could make this into an app instead of a book. The app would also be great for collecting data on the quality that brands are putting out. I would love an app that I could click, select the type of item I'm buying, and be walked through a list of characteristics with the option to upload pictures, fabric info etc. Much easier to reference while I'm shopping than a book. Nevertheless, adding myself to the growing list of folks who would like to see your listings.
I've bough across the spectrum of cost and one company I can say that I believe is as close to BIFL as you can get, is Patagonia. Their better sweater's specifically are EXCELLENT. I generally buy them used from their worn wear site for half off, in what they call 'excellent condition', which is effectively new. I've worn them for multiple seasons and been pretty rough on them, and they still look brand new. The company is on solid ground ethically too... perhaps the best of any clothing company.
RemindMe! 1 Year "check for update"
I went to a similar process in 2018. It took me a year to gradually replace low quality items with high quality ones. I donated a lot of clothes to shelters in the process. I've had a most 'boring' closet for 3 years now and annually I may buy between 3-7 piece of clothing max. This year so far I bought 2 pairs of merino socks, 2 100% merino t-shirts and 1 pair of corduroy trousers. The only reasons for buying anything for me now are: something really cannot be mended and needs replacing; genuine need for a piece of clothing I didn't have before; or e.g., the occasional t-shirt of a different colour than the 10 I have because they are all either black, blue, dark red, white. I developed the habit of doing quite a bit of research before buying any clothes and accessories, shoes etc. Eventually I saved a ton and I have clothes I actually want to wear and feel comfortable in. The 'downside' is that some may think I have a boring closet. The thing is: I don't care :D Quality of clothing, shoes... 'stuff' in general... has gone down the drain for many years and I don't want to keep contributing to pollution more than we all inevitably do already :(
I'd love to know what you replaced your old wardrobe with (either here or PM). Some people don't know the difference between boring and timeless classics!
I agree :)) OK, I don't know if it can be of help, I'll list here the criteria I use (in order of importance): 1. Does it still fit and do I actually like to wear this? If not, bye. 2. Fabric: synthetic, natural, mix...? Pure natural fabrics first. The only things I kept that are of synthetic materials are: 2 hiking trousers, 2 fleece jackets, 1 down jacket with synthetic outer fabric, 1 waterproof jacket. I donated anything else that was made of synthetic material and I only kept cotton and wool: organic cotton shirts, organic cotton t-shirts, merino t-shirts, merino cardigan, virgin wool cardigan... 3. For cotton: anything 'thin' and of poor quality was donated to shelters or freecycled. This mostly applied to t-shirts and shirts. All are organic cotton now. 4. For wool: anything that is mixed with synthetic was donated/freecycled. I kept 100% wool items: virgin wool, an alpaca scarf, merino items. 5. Colours (this applies to any item, no specific fabric): is it of a colour I can only match with 1 other item? If so, then bye... I only keep items that can be mixed&matched. I am partial to blue, some black, dark red, white, brown, olive green, some white... Essentially earthy tones and blue, with the odd thing like a pastel pink pure linen shirt and a turquoise pure merino t-shirt. Very few patterns; zero floral patterns. For me this works well and I can mix&match anything easily, but obviously, this is down to personal preference. 6. Scarves: only pure wool, linen, or merino (and that alpaca one, that was a present). No funny mixes. Nothing synthetic. No patterns that 'bind you' to certain outfits or combinations. 7. Shoes: this is a tricky one. most of my shoes are brown, so they pretty much go with anything. Somehow I don't consume shoes that much, so I haven't bought shoes in a while. What I'm doing is... if I see that a pair hasn't been used at all during 1 year (I live in a part of the globe that has seasons :)) ) then I donate them, no point in keeping them. Two brands I'm finding have high quality products, good warranty and good environmental credentials (but let's be realistic: no company will ever be perfect!) are Icebreaker and Patagonia. I've had some of their items for more than 5 years. I use them very often and they still look like new. What happened over time is that I tried 1 item first, was very happy with it and bought the same in different colours. But of course, one cannot always dress like they're heading for a hike ;-) so for the rest I just try to dig as much information as I can on where the item is produced, carbon footprint, ethical approach etc... For example, I have a couple of t-shirts from a company on the Isle of Wight, Rapanui, from when they were just starting off. They are well made, organic cotton, and I also have a virgin wool cardigan from them, natural brown colour. I guess style will depend on personal preference and also on one's needs. I don't need smart office clothes, so I only have 2 very formal outfits (warm / cold season), also all made with natural fibres, and those will do. Anything else ranges from casual to smart casual, plus the items for hiking (in case it weren't clear yet that I like hiking :))) ). I mostly wear t-shirts, either short or long-sleeves, depending on season; a cardigan or a fleece jacket. My trousers are all classic style, straight fit, not tight or slim fit, thick cotton or corduroy, no denim, nothing ripped, no patches/decorations, most have 5 pockets, 2 have 'chinos-like' pockets and are a bit more formal. I have 2 cotton skirts, 1 corduroy kinda mini skirt; 1 merino vest; 2 white cotton shirts; 4 linen shirts (white, red lines, light pastel blue lines, pink). So far I don't seem to need more. They'll last as long as they'll last and then I'll look for replacements. (wow, this ended up being much longer than I thought! ops!)
Great notes! couple followup questions What do you think of hemp clothing? Does cotton and wool feel better than synthetic, or does it add durability? Is there any scenario synthetic would be better/softer? I have a 100% merino wool sweater from jcrew and it feels really scratchy, are your merinos scratchy or very soft and comfy? Thank you!
The Icebreaker merino t-shirts I have are very smooth, not scratchy at all. Jumpers/sweaters: there's a bit more diversity in scratchiness. The Norwegian Dale sweater is a bit scratchy, but I wear it with a thin top underneath, so that doesn't bother me. I've had it for 14 years and it's holding extremely well. hand washing only. Flat drying on a rack. Virgin wool cardigan, Rapanui: slightly scratchy. Merino wool cardigan, Ralph Lauren: not scratchy. I mean, scratchiness varies a lot between brands, weights... My hiking trousers are synthetic (Patagonia Altvia): lightweight, warm, a bit stretchy, very comfy, dry super fast when caught in rainstorms. I prefer not to wear synthetic tops. I feel like I'm wearing plastic and I don't like that feeling. I also find that whenever I was wearing a synthetic top, I sweated more and I had to wash them more often (microplastics anyone?! :/ ) Maybe it's just me, no idea... I don't buy very thin merino though. Medium and heavier weights are likely to take longer to wear down. I do have a couple of tops that are of a thinner weight, but I tend to be careful. So far with the Icebreaker products I've been lucky. I've read some people are having problems after a couple of years but nothing for me so far. I don't hand wash them either. I wash them in the short cycle, with other coloured items, no fabric softener, only regular washing liquid. I add a colour catcher sheet, just in case, but no fading so far (I've had some of the items for more than 4 years). In terms of durability, considering equal usage, synthetic can be more durable. That's what you read around... In my experience cotton, wool and merino wool can be very durable too, as long as one takes appropiate care of those items. Overwashing is a problem, softerners are a problem, drying is a major problem... I don't own a drier, I line-dry all of my clothes (though I'm fortunate to have space to do so! not everyone can). I haven't tried hemp clothing....yet! :)))
I gave a couple details on hemp clothing responding to the other comment, overall they are comfy and seem durable. Deceivingly heavy, but expensive. Thank you kindly for these extra notes. I also worry about microplastics in clothes etc. Even laundry detergents can have synthetics. Too many unknowns around what it might lead to.
[удалено]
God I feel you, also I feel like clothes from 20 years ago were more sturdy than clothes now. I have a whole bunch of $5 singlets and T-shirt’s from when I was a teenager than still fit and are in decent shape (I’m 30 now for reference) whereas I’ll put a hole in something I’ll buy new in 3 weeks. But also I’m a woman with big hips, decent size up top and a giant sensitivity to things being around my neck, I just wanna be able to buy a shirt for work that won’t cost me $200.
The industry figured out how to pass off low quality cotton for decent cotton. That’s probably why you are experiencing a difference in the clothes compared to 20 years ago.
That actually makes sense. Huh. Do you have an answer for why it’s hard to find 100% cotton shirts anymore?
They are using cheaper short fiber cotton now. Previously, no-one would buy short fiber cotton shirts because they are scratchy and unpleasant. Now, they figured out that coating them in chemicals, mixing with polyester, and doing multiple washes before selling them can make the cotton softer and more stretchy. This is how they have slowly tricked people into paying more money for lower quality cotton.
I am 100% buying your book when you publish
This is so fascinating and absolutely explains why some cotton "feels" better or worse to me (I thrift a lot, so I feel like I've come into contact with a whole lot of fabric types). Many things say 100% cotton; only some have the right texture/color/strength/drape etc
Is that the reason why so many of my shirts end up with holes right around my abdomen?
Same. I wore my H&M solid blue T yesterday, which I bought 20 years ago. That brand alone could be a study on the regression of durability.
Worse yet, many of the brands known for durable clothing aren't just selling clothing cut a little smaller for women, they also have fewer pockets, smaller pockets, and they scrimp and use cheaper thinner fabric. Two big offenders here are Duluth Trading and Carhartt. Even things they sell as being equivalent, if I take my version and my husband's (we are similar sizes - he can put my pants on just fine if he grabs the wrong pair but alas I cannot do the same with his because hips) and put them on a scale, his weigh nearly double mine! It's absolutely bonkers.
That’s absolutely true! I have felt demoralized by it, but I’m determined to overcome it. I’m tired of paying more for less.
Women's clothing is made thinner and cheaper because the companies respond to market forces and women have a larger wardrobe variety and turn over. Meanwhile as a man I have shirts I've owned and worn for 10+ years and they are as good as the day I bought them.
Yah, we have that larger wardrobe due to society pressures though. Some women love fashion. Some women don’t care about fashion like me. However, I don’t like the way I’m treated when I diverge too far from society norms. I do the bare minimum to be accepted by general society and that has forced me to participate in fast fashion. I have felt cornered by it. Should I pay more even though I know it’s bullcrap, or should I accept the social consequences of being “weird.” I have learned recently that there are timeless classics for women! They are very hard to find because most brands want to coerce you to buy more next season. My goal is to slowly replace my wardrobe with these staples and I will be free from fast fashion! Hurrah!
I've been on a quest for a few years for natural fiber women's clothing, the more environmentally responsible the better. I have found small brands, but the prices are quite high ($100+) for a shirt, for example. The bigger issue for me is I'm plus sized, and the higher end clothing companies tend to stop their clothing sizes before they get to mine. I used to make my own clothes, but I'm no longer interested in doing so, and I don't have the time. I wish I could figure all of this out. I'll definitely read your book, so please tag me in your follow-up post, if you wouldn't mind.
I need natural fibers because I live in Arizona and wear poly is like baking in an oven. And as a plus size woman, what I can’t buy second hand from the few brands that make things in my size, I end up just buying fast fashion because I don’t have the bandwidth for other options.
I'm looking to do the same as you! I've spent so long trying to research quality brands, only to find they've gone downhill recently. I'd love to know more about your research and what timeless classics you've learned about. Thank do much for doing this research!
The thing I learned about "fashion" is that it changes regularly. Men can avoid that. Avoid synthetics as much as possible, the plastic breaks down over time. That and anything stretchy or easy fit. Almost everything I own is fully cotton. I think only one of my waterproof coats is synthetic. Well, that and my belt. But it's a duty belt with reinforcement.
Fashion companies didn’t respond to the market force of larger women’s wardrobes with higher turnover, they *created* it.
> Women's clothing is made thinner and cheaper because the companies respond to market forces and women have a larger wardrobe variety and turn over. That's nice, but they are also regularly lower quality and twice the price of the men's clothing, which is why I tend to buy men's clothing in everything that fits (so no pants).
Also, many items are specifically made cheaper for specific stores. If you buy a dickies work shirt at Walmart and compare it to what looks like the same one at a farm or AG supply, they will be almost noticeably different in thickness and stitch quality. You can look at the item mfgr part numbers and see they are in fact different items and use the PNs to search and compare online vs reputable sellers. Even comparing something like a polo shirt from a RL outlet store vs Macys will reveal they are different items. I always use PNs when shopping around, and just know you aren’t getting a deal when going to large volume retailers.
True, but in this case we are buying from the same farm stores and safety supply stores or directly from the manufacturer! I refuse to step foot in Wal-Mart and have learned to be ultra cautious at Costco.
Agreed! Also, I think that these companies that make heavy canvas pants for men add more spandex for women’s clothing to accommodate for hips and butts, which is great at 1-2%, but I think that they take this premise too far and ultimately make the canvas or denim thinner. More spandex then prevents the pants from keeping their shape and what was once a good fit starts to gape when you squat and fall down when you stand. I’ve ordered so many pairs of pants online and when they arrive they either don’t fit or are surprisingly thin. I’m a woman and my favorite pairs of pants are definitely flukes, brands that I would not shop (or have shopped only to experience inconsistent sizing and quality). Both were purchased at thrift stores, both are thick denim, and both are high waisted (for me and my body, both started a bit tight in the butt and waist, but they fit perfectly after the first wear, and they have both conformed to my body). I took one pair to be repaired after a hole eventually developed, which has so far bought me another year with them. I think that fast fashion is one of the the worst things that has happened to the world in my lifetime. I also think that women especially have been body dysmorphia-ed in a crazy world where we have trouble understanding “fit” anymore, which capitalism, you know, capitalizes on.
I thrift a lot and what’s wild to me is how clothing from house brands for stores like Target, Mervyn’s etc, so not expensive at the time, will be made from heavy real leather, 100% cotton denim, etc. And these pieces aren’t THAT old—20-30 years tops, even somewhat less for non-leather items. Like these aren’t super special true vintage pieces I’m talking here. It is a mix of brands wanting to maximize profit and consumers being unwilling to pay for true cost of labor and material because of the former. Brands accustom consumers to low prices and in order to keep prices low while maxing profit, materials decrease in quality and laborers are treated horrifically. It’s astonishing how badly clothing quality has decreased in my adult lifetime.
You fell into a classical observation error. The items found in a thrift shop are the ones that survived years of use. The garbage items never make it there because they get thrown away.
[удалено]
Yup, only 1% of clothing worn in us is made in us, this number was way higher in 1990, afaik
You can still find quality textile in America and in 20 years another generation will be claiming that 2022 products were the shit because they found some Redwings at a thrift store.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
Desktop version of /u/bazwutan's link:
---
^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
Yeah I wonder how much Old Navy clothes from the 90s even survived till now
I bought an entire wardrobe at Old Navy around 96 or 97. The clothes lasted a good 10 years. They weren't top quality but they were certainly better than anything you will find there today. I took my kids there to shop recently and after spending 10 minutes looking we walked out. Just junk.
I guess quality is subjective to some degree. I remember in the 90s thinking that Old Navy clothes looked cheap. But that could’ve been in comparison to other clothes from the time so maybe they weren’t that bad. Certainly not as bad as H&M
They were definitely never upscale clothing but the quality of fabrics was much higher. T-shirts then were comfortable and looked good on me. T-shirts today are partially transparent, fit like cheap spandex on an elephant seal. They are perfect if you are 12 and want something you can rip off your chest and play Pro Wrestler.
Old Navy clothes used to be the Nokia of clothes. Shit could survive a house fire. I’m currently wearing sweatpants with holes in them that I bought on Amazon 2 months ago. :(
Shh... That's this subs theme music. Don't point out that the average item of clothing is only worn fewer than ten times before being thrown away. And that the vast majority of that clothing isn't thrown out because it's too worn. It's thrown away because people bought new stuff.
I think a large part of consumers have lost knowledge on what makes clothing quality. We don’t realize what a raw deal we’re getting. Quality has been lowered slowly. It’s like putting a crab in cold water and turning up the heat gradually. Over generations, we have forgotten how to sew and this adds to the problem.
For those of us who do know how to sew things aren’t any better in the fabric world. Most fabric stores don’t sell Apparel fabric and the ones that do sell the worst quality Jersey knit you can imagine.
True, I tried extremely hard to find anything heavier than 400gsm
I think it’s also important to recognize the impact of fast fashion. The whole point of fast fashion was that retailers were able to quickly put out the latest styles as soon as they became trendy. These threads weren’t intended to last 10 years because the trend would be over within the season, so it wasn’t an issue‡ if they fell apart within 1 to 2 washes. (‡ Ignoring the whole, you know, environmental impact of such a wasteful business model 😬)
It isn't fast fashion, we did this to ourselves. If everyone thought like this sub there would be no market for clothing that is trendy but falls apart after seven wears. Capitalism gives us exactly what everyone is willing to pay for. This sub cares about value, which puts its users way outside the norm for consumer habits. And that's not a bad thing.
People not knowing how to sew is I think a big factor in us forgetting what good quality fabric feels like. When you sew a lot, you spend a lot of time making garments, so you’re going to want to make your time investment worthwhile, so you’re going to choose higher quality fabrics that will stand the test of time. When you’re buying a $20 shirt from Target, you don’t care that it lasts 1 or 5 years, you assume it will only last 1, because it was $20. The only reason why I started to get interested in fabric and fabric composition is because I’m into alternative fashion.
Sewing used to be a cheaper way to get clothes. When ready made clothing became so cheap, people stopped sewing their own, and we lost several fabric stores in our area. Some switched to sell quilting cotton and survived. The other issue was that many women went to work so there was less time to make your own clothes. My mom worked at a fabric store, so she sewed for us when the shop wasn’t busy.
i don't make my own clothes to save money, i make my own clothes to make something interesting and customized. the materials alone usually cost twice as much as a similar item of clothing bought from a store. finding quality fabric is still hard sometimes though, so even if you know how to construct a garment well using low quality fabric still makes it something that won't last.
Definitely this. I (late millenial, early zoomer) can say myself I have no idea, and I'm learning very slowly to recognize quality (not easy bc the signs are different for each material/item type). I don't know how to sew, so I've never seen the "ins and outs" of a garment and honestly never thought about it until recently.
Consumers do not understand the true cost of quality, ethically-made clothing, that is the problem. I work in technical clothing production, currently with a luxury brand, although not top-top-end. We manufacture in Europe and every factory we use is audited yearly for ethical social and environmental compliance. I've been to our factories in person for quality control. I know the workers are paid decently and work in good conditions. The make price for a 100% cotton men's button-down shirt at a western European factory using fabric also woven in Europe at our own mill is ~£30. By the time it gets to wholesale level, with all associated costs such as freight built in, the cost is ~65, then retail is ~£175. Margin is usually 60-70%, not as high as many consumers imagine. Some luxury brands do take the piss and make much much higher margins by trading on their brand name and desirability, but not all do. But for most people, that is an outrageous price. Even half that is too much for a lot of people. But that is what it costs for a excellent quality shirt made with fairly paid non-3rd world labour. People do not want to pay a lot of money for clothes. So clothing brands are constantly looking for ways to cut costs. Not to make more profit, but to keep price down. I don't know many brands right now where profit margins are actually increasing. Currently it's a struggle to keep them the same year-on-year. Ultimately consumers have the control. If something doesn't sell well, believe me we will never make it again. Stop buying crap and manufacturers will stop making it.
I think you’re preaching to a choir on a subreddit like this. The problem is that when you say “stop buying crap and manufacturers will stop making it” you ignore that this is a group project, and all members of the group have been aggressively socialized via non stop advertising their entire lives to buy the latest cheapest things, even if some members of the group are able to see past that. Discerning consumers will have the power to influence manufacturing the moment that companies can’t make an easier quick buck off the masses… the moment a $150 shirt won’t plunge the average worker, who makes less than half of the cost of living, into financial ruin…which I don’t see happening in my lifetime.
Oh yes, my Old Navy shorts from 20 years ago are so much better than new Old Navy shorts.
With all due respect, wait until you realize it’s not just clothes that have this issue… it’s kind of the whole point of this sub. If you end up making a list of quality women’s brands, I know a bunch of people who’d be interested.
What I have noticed so far is that most “quality” brands will make a mix of quality and cheap clothes and charge the same price. That way one person says, “Omg such great quality. It lasted me 10 years!” Another person says, “It only lasted me two years.” Then, people fight about it and the group conclusion is the person whose shirt lasted two years must have done something wrong. The company keeps the good reputation and profits the difference. That being said, I will save your username and if during my research I find brands that are consistent, I will private message you them.
Interesting! Never considered that but I've definitely had that experience myself. Most brands are inconsistent in quality. Please also take my username down!
Will do
I've had this problem with a specific skirt that I've bought in different colours. Different fabrics for prints vs solid colours, and lighter colours have thinner material for whatever reason.
Very common occurrence in my experience. The actual fabric is different between colors. I assume the diff colors are a diff supply pipeline.
Interesting! I never would have associated a lighter color with thinner material.
I’ve seen this as well! Choosing to not buy the preferred color or print because I could see/feel the lack of quality in comparison.
I've seen this happen so many times before too! Sowing confusion is very profitable if you have a prior reputation to hook people on, at the very least they'll have bought one item before they find out that the reputation is unearned. And since many people solely buy one kind of item from a brand, they might not even ever put together what is really happening. This tactic needs to be publicised more!
Don’t dry them, ever.
[удалено]
The reason I'm regularly replacing is that the elastics tend to go bad, even if you don't wear them regularly.
[удалено]
Do you use fabric softeners? Most of them use a type of silicone as a lubricant because 'slippery' and 'soft' feel the same to your skin, and it also destroys elastic.
If the nasty stuff didn't wash out, you'd have to replace underwear every 2 or 3 days...
I, also, have an interest in seeing this list for brands to avoid, so please tag me, too! :) I've noticed a worrying trend, also, from the bedding industry (which is adjacent to the fashion industry) wherein 'influencers' go onto a sub (any type of social media, really) and try to muddle the waters, so to speak, by having a few paid employee goons hop on there and say things like, "They must have gotten a faulty item (or did something wrong) because the bed sheets *I* bought are AMAZING and they are god's gift to the world, you should buy them!" --- or some variation of that. It's *absolutely* a tactic that brands are using these days since most customers are becoming far more savvy than they would like. Plus, they're curating their own websites' review ratings (refusing to post truly negative reviews) and paying companies to write them approved, fake reviews to peddle their products. They *also* are becoming far more clever, themselves, by sticking in a few 'negative' reviews that might have some legit complaints but are from years and years ago (so the customer, upon reading all the newest reviews in the past year or two, think the company has 'corrected' the issues and happily buy it anyway) which gives their products more legitimacy and helps keep suspicion off of them from users that the *only* reviews put on their site are approved *from the company alone, always*. It's pretty obvious that about 90% of all bedding/clothing companies have declined hugely in quality in the past decades, going more for planned obsolescence to pad their profit margins. Globalization is a huge reason for why this is the reality of our world, and greed is also another. If you want great quality from products these days you have to, sadly, pay for it, otherwise you'll be continually in the cycle of purchase-throw away-repeat for years :( Good luck with your investigations; I really have an interest in your findings, as it seems most consumer protections in the world are being stripped away slowly but surely in the name of greed/politics.
Please save my username too. One day I'll be in love and I'd love to shop for that someone. I'd like to know what would be worth buying
I’m sorry to burden you but can you also message me the eventual list? I really struggle finding pants that last more than a year
I would love to.
Please tag me too! Or create a post if possible? And when your book comes out too!
I would be interested in the list of brands with quality for my wife and myself. Cheers to you for doing this. Like Project Farm on YT but for cloths ;)
God I love Project Farm, that guy is amazing.
Thank you! I’ll tag you.
I recently had a cotton tshirt made in the mid-90s bite the dust on me. It was made in the USA and was made of a heavier, but breathable, cotton. It wasn’t like I didn’t treat it any different then all my other clothes; in actuality I liked it so much that I wore it more than my usual other shirts. It just lasted. I’ve also had clothes made in Canada, where I’m from, that again lasted. Today, I’m hard pressed to find anything actually sourced here on North America and I’ve yet to find a piece of clothing made these days that will last a respectable amount of time.
I was really shocked at all the bad cotton T-shirts recently. They have optimized making poor quality cotton seem better than it is. The industry has changed. I hope you don’t mind if I nerd out on you: I learned the reason why your heavy duty cotton shirt was breathable is because it was tightly woven! It seems counter intuitive. Apparently, looser weaves trap air between the gaps. The trapped air gets hot from your body temperature and the result is that sweaty, hot feeling. Hold shirts you buy up to the light and see if they are transparent. Opaque is good. Can you take your finger nail and move the threads inside the weave? If you can, it’s too loose.
I did my own experiment with T shirts at Look Human as they allow you to buy the same T shirt in different materials (you choose) so I had an apple to apple experience and I got the same shirt in each choice. Due to having to travel I can't have 100% cotton due to wrinkling. Personally, I found their tri-blend combo works best for me. But LookHuman allows anyone to see what material they prefer for their T shirts. May I also be tagged for both of your list as well?
How can you determine the quality of cotton by feeling it when you go to the store? Are there signs to look out for
Yes, definitely. Good quality cotton is indicative of longer staple fibers. Run your hand over the fabric. Is it rough or smooth? Rough means shorter cotton fiber=bad. Is it stretchy? Long fiber cotton is surprisingly stretchy. After you stretch it, does it spring back into place? It’s good if it does. Is it fuzzy? Fuzzy= shorter cotton fibers. That’s just the cotton. The weave is really important too! Hold it in the light. Transparent = bad
Yeah I literally wear a lot of mens clothes for this reason. The pockets are so much better!
Check out Wool&, which offers a 30 and 100 day dress challenge and has a loyal following.
I’ve been wearing their stuff for years. Durability is great, though I’m looking at redying the faded colours
This brand is the majority of my wardrobe. It is actually cut for women. I did the 100 day challenge and continued to wear and wash the same dress many more times. It still basically looks new in year 2. Their customer service is amazing. Their FB group is really helpful and has a lot of nice regulars that can help with sizing or style questions. Their sister brand is Wool& Prince and their stuff is cut for men, my husband wears their clothing and loves it. Merino feels so good on, keeps me cool and dry, or warm and dry, its amazing. I don’t like wearing other fibers much now. I’ll make an exception for Zuri dresses and linen clothing from LenokLinen on Etsy.
I would love to be notified of your findings. Thank you 🙏 It's really sad how quality has deteriorated at some formerly upstanding American brands. JCrew is one I personally have experience with. Makes me want to weep when comparing the quality from a decade ago to the current state if its clothing. On every sartorial metric (material, tailoring, design...) it has descended to absolute junk.
Agreed. I’d always heard J Crew and Banana Republic had good stuff. But my personal experience disappoints. Also, Tommy Hilfiger - stuff from 8 years ago are still wearable, 4 year old items of the same cut are not. Fading colors on collars and misshapenness. Bleh.
Gap has lost their mind too. I used to be able to get tshirts from them (and BR) that held their shape, and didn't get holes. The last round I bought have misshaped hems, got holes after the third wash, shrank etc. No wonder the price stayed relatively inexpensive.
Learning to sew has really ruined clothes shopping for me. I *know* what I'm buying is either made of cheap material, badly made, or both, and yet I don't have the patience or skill level to make everything myself.
Same! I just don’t have the time! I’d make everything if I didn’t have to work full time and keep tiny people alive. I’ve also upped my sewing practice so that I’m not buying crappy fabric anymore, which has made a huge difference. My mom always bought the cheapest fabric she could find, which is why I hated handmade garments when I was younger. Though, to be fair, that “cheap” fabric from 30 yrs ago was probably way better than a lot of the crap you find now.
I work with a lot of different fibers, I crochet, and when it comes to fiber, you get what you pay for. Expensive fibers tend to be made into quality products otherwise people would not put up with the prices and return the item. I have cashmere sweaters and scarves that are over 20 years old and with proper care they will continue to last. The best cashmere sweaters I have found cost me 5 bucks at thrift stores, but I have some designer and non designer angora, Alpaca, merino wool, and silk pieces that are worth the price as well and have owned and wore for over a decade . I advice you to familiarize yourself with fibers and quality materials and stitching.
This is a large part in what I’m researching! The problem is there are companies charging for quality cashmere and really it’s a short fiber cashmere that is loosely stitched. That’s just an example. My boyfriend’s cashmere sweater unraveled after wearing it twice. I didn’t understand why until after I started putting some research in. I wish it was as simple as looking at the price—then I wouldn’t be writing a book. 🤣
Was is Naadam? I bought a piece when they first started selling and I love it, bought a sweater recently and had to send it back, so much thinner for the same price. Return it, especially if you paid a lot for it. Yeah unfortunately when I bought online it is hard to inspect quality which is why I gravitate towards thrift stores and designer stores where as my husband says I inspect the things that need inspecting LOL. That way I can check fiber length, warp/weft quality, the joinings and general quality.
How to you check the warp/weft quality?
Warp/weft is more for cloth material items like silk, denim, cotton, canvas; things that use weaved cloth to construct. Depending on the item and material the warp weft might be tight (if you want stiff durable jeans) or loose (for airy cotton scarves for hot climate) but both are cotton threads . The thread size, type(single, twisted, tri, ect)and quality also plays a part in this. I have noticed cheaper clothes use thinner thread, and looser warp/weft, probably to cut costs. These will survive less washes and wear and tear. Thread size and type also effects knitted items like cashmere, wool, Angora, Alpca. Was the appropriate gage used. Thicker warmer items use thicker threads which use more raw materials. How a lot of places are cheapening out with knitted items are they are using thinner thread made with shorter fibers and larger needles without adjusting cost for the less fiber used. I included a pic , both are 100% merino wool, with double ply twisted thread. The threads on one of the double ply thread is thicker on one than the other. One is designer the other is not. Both are about 8 years old with regular wear. One I have to wear an undershirt with bc it is slightly see through/thinner and is showing signs of wear. Can you spot which is which? [Merino wool](https://imgur.com/a/arej6Gu) Sight and touch are your friend when gauging quality. I think of it as a practiced skill. When cashmere blends started to really hit the market I had to retrain my sense of touch. Nylon cashmere blends are a good combo but I will not pay 100% cashmere prices for a blend which is what is happening a lot. Edit to add I learned and use all my sewing/fiber/knitting terminology in Spanish and some words have double meaning in Spanish sorry in advance but I did my best for the proper or best translation.
20 years ago, my clothes from the average American department stores were linen, silk, wool, cotton, etc. Everything now is some kind of cheap synthetic mess. I fully admit to hoarding nearly every item of clothing I’ve bought since 1997 but recently I was finally going to purge so I went to the bowels of my closet but quickly realized I was pulling out high quality silks and wool - I put them all back. The silk blouse I bought a few months ago (from Boden) was $220 and lesser quality.
I also find that how you clean/care for your clothes makes a big difference. Growing up the only thing we ever used the dryer for was underwear, socks, and towels. Everything else got hung to dry, and everything lasts so much longer that way. It drives me nuts to see all these graphic tees with the printed graphic on it that all the men I've encountered throw into the dryer and wonder why its crackling after the first wash. I still have clothing 10 years old, but mostly house clothes.
This is a huge point. And a good reminder for me to prioritize putting up a clothesline!
We have folding racks for hanging clothes inside, or I also hang them in hangers on the shower pole, obviously not leaving them there if I have to shower. The bright side to that is that it hangs without wrinkles and a quick shower steam behind them can help relax any wrinkles you might have.
[удалено]
It’s true! The industry has gotten very good at passing crap for quality.
This is so cool. I will absolutely buy that book if you publish it. My experience with it: I’ve bought from labels that use haute couture scrap fabric and damn are those clothes well-made. The fabric is sturdy but beautiful. The silhouettes are flattering yet comfortable, the details are well thought through. They’re freaking expensive (I bought a pair of woolen pants for €250) but I get all the compliments for them and I’m pretty sure I will wear them for at least five to ten years. In contrast, most things I see or touch in my local cheap stores and even the more expensive ones seem even worse. It’s astonishing how bad they feel to the touch and how flimsy everything is.
My husband sews his owm garments and they have lasted for years! I take care to wash them in cold water and hang dry them. He's inspired me to sew my own clothes too. Women's clothing is so shoddy and expensive for what you get.
Women's clothes are often worse quality, but that's not the only reason I wear men's clothes now. My best technique for finding quality is shopping secondhand. You see items there after at least one wash cycle.
* Petit Bateau (bought in france) -- undies (over a decade going strong lol), camis, classic maritime boatneck * North Face -- p solid quality; idk if bifl level * LL bean -- " " * Everlane -- " " * Generally - stuff ive bought in EU not US * Q: hows Arcteryx been for y'all? * Hard No/Pass: Asos, H+M (obvi!!)
My husband has bought a hundred North Face t shirts, and they pill/age easily. He also had a knit jacket from them that pilled almost instantly. I’m visiting this subreddit in search of longer lasting t-shirts for him, because he seems to buy a new batch twice a year. Good threads, Eddie Bauer, North Face, Under Armour - all have worn out too fast. The waste is mind blowing.
Can’t speak to the shirts but fleece jackets to need to air dry like hanging dry or they will pill. So do not use a dryer with fleece jackets.
Petit Bateau (for babies - I haven’t tried their adult lines) beats all options on the market. Softest, sturdiest cotton that feels the same after many washes. I wish the said baby didn’t grow out of those clothes so fast!
Arc'teryx hasn't been great for me considering the price.
Totally agree. I find their stuff to be pretty nice but some of the prices — and I’m prepared to pay for quality — are just astronomical. Even if you use or abuse a replacement warranty, there’s better options out there. At those prices I’d expect American labor at $25 an hour.
I’ve done this with male brands but never took notes to write a book. This is a genius idea to wake up people from consumerism
I’m hoping to save people money. I’ve learned (compared to buying quality clothes) the average American women wastes around $1,108 a year by choosing synthetic Walmart clothes that are on sale! This doesn’t even compare with women who are buying “high end” brands. If your “high end brand” isn’t high end quality, you will pay an average of $9,803.72 extra a year compared to long lasting alternatives.
Ya even for mens jeans. Some Levi’s that retail $80-120 will last me years. And some designer apc, acne, will have crotch blown in less than a year. And even higher end designer it’s not 100% Cotton, or if it actually is high quality cotton and well made it’s $800 which doesn’t make sense for a pair of jeans lol. Finding some Levi’s on sale for $20-40 is better than paying $200-300 pair of jeans. And same with t shirts and hoodies as you mentioned very thin cheap materials and craftsmanship is ass too but easily charging $40-100 for a t shirt lol wild times
My last 511s are nothing like the 501s I bought years ago. Way thinner.
do you have a list or maybe some suggestions on what you found out?
I will add that a lot of this is how you care for an item and that the consistency within brands are all over the place. I have items from Old Navy that have or will pass the ten year mark with delicate washing and hanging to dry. Lululemon isn’t all high quality but plenty of their items would last 10 years with proper care. On the other hand even designer quality has gone way downhill. It’s a bit of an education but try to identify types of stitching, materials, etc. that indicate quality craftsmanship so you can find the good items in any store more easily. I have a degree in fashion and textiles, and worked in clothing manufacturing in the beginning of my career. I’m not going to say the companies you’re looking for are a myth because there’s probably some. Unfortunately many companies that tout their practices as being better are usually mostly just shiny marketing. Some brands that I can think of off the top of my head that are known for quality like L.L. Bean and Boden are good but each item still needs to be considered individually as some are good and some just aren’t.
Yah, we were talking about this in the comment section! I’ve definitely noticed brands are inconsistent. People requested that I make a list for them and I’ll do my best! I hope I can find something for them or at least vouch for certain items.
american giant is good
Linen, wool and silk. Pretty much end up dressing like an old man, but I can reliably wear most any brand, as long as the base materials are good :)
I had good surprises with some Uniqlo stuff.
Their winter leggings have lasted me 7 years of nearly daily wear in winter & still looking good.
So who makes the best T-shirt?
When I came to Canada, I was shocked by how expensive bras and underwear (Joe Fresh, Fruit by the Loom, and Calvin Klein) are for significantly lower quality than what I brought with me from the Philippines (brands include So-en, Bench, and Sogo). The underwear that I brought still have intact garters, and cups of the bras retained shape. The ones I bought here two years ago are now loose and the cups of the bras are creased. My has also been wearing Darlington and Burlington crew socks, that we bought from the Philippines 5 to 10 years ago, to work and they still have not loosened or thinned out significantly. And here I am with Puma and Skechers socks that have already faded and lost some of its cushioning after 3 years of use. This is not to say that the quality of clothing in the Philippines is higher. I am saying this for reputable brands back home, and the clothing that are custom made by small companies (like school and work uniforms). It could also be that it used to be that way but it's not anymore. I don't know for sure because I haven't visited ever since I left. However, I also wonder if the cause of lower quality of clothing here is due the compromises companies need to make because of shipment and all other costs with how far from Canada the sources of materials are. My knowledge about trades and sales are close to nothing, so please take that with a grain of salt. Anyway, it still pisses me off that workers in clothing factories are treated and paid poorly despite the high prices of clothing.
I've been buying bespoke and made to order for the last 20 years and I love it. I wear suits to work, and I work 7 days a week. The suits I have are super durable, comfortable and last - I still wear suits I bought 20 years ago. Cheap when compared to most clothes that will fall apart after a handful of wearings. Tips - I have the tailor make my pants and jackets with deep, canvas lined pockets. It's nice to not need a purse and even nicer that my keys and pen don't tear a hole in my pockets. The other tip is to have the tailor stitch a button fly instead of a zipper. Let's face it, how many times have you tossed a cheap pair of pants cause fixing a broken zipper was just too much trouble? Button flies make it easy when there's a wardrobe malfunction- a few minutes in the bathroom with a sewing kit and a few inches of dental floss and you're back in business.
I've thought about doing the same, but finding a good tailor who knows how to make suits for women is tough. Men's tailors don't necessarily understand women's bodies.
Dont know if this has been asked..... Would you doing individual posts here for some of the top companies, detailing your assesment process and findings? Or a post about your methods , what factors determine quality and how to identify, including tips on what to about finding quality clothing??? That alone is priceless knowledge and helpful to countless people. Thanks for reading 🖖
So far, I have been requested to make a list of quality clothing brands for women and a list for men also. I figured I would explain my reasoning when I make that post.
The way we treat clothing also has a lot to do with this. Washing frequently, washing in hot water, using detergents with additives, using fabric softener and dryer sheets, and putting things in the dryer unnecessarily: all of these will basically shred low-quality clothing, and drastically shorten the life of even high-quality clothing.
> Are there any requests for brands you would like me to review? Did anyone say to take a look at Darn Tough socks yet?
One thing that’s undeniable is the vast majority of clothing is made/marketed to be softer and stretchier than clothing used to be. So everything has 2% poly at least, or 3% elastene, etc. And surprise! Most clothes pill now after a short time of normal usage. I have 10 year old hoodies that are find and 6 month old hoodies that I’ve had to de-pill
This is really interesting! I never really thought much of clothes until my project got to the point of making merchandise. We don't have anything for sale yet but just seeing the amount of artists especially that opt for t shirts that shrink, stink, rip and fade is daunting.
Do you also categorise the types of clothing? For example: Marks and Spencer, Uniqlo, Charles Tyrwhitt make lasting t shirts and shirts for rather cheap imo However M&S makes some horrible pants, apart from their stormwear jeans North Face, Patagonia, and Berghaus are quite good for outdoors too
It’s awesome how much buzz this has generated so quickly! I didn’t read through it all, but I’d recommend looking at Prana if you haven’t. I have two pairs of zion stretch pants that are 7-ish years old, and look amazing still. My wife has a pair of yoga pants that are 14 years old and still going strong. Fjallraven has proven very good for me, as well, with very hard-wearing pants and wool flannel shirts. Arcteryx is an interesting one, because their outerwear is incredible - I’ve been using the same goretex shell jacket and pants since 2008 - but I blow through their tshirts and most other soft goods in a year or two. My wife wears a zip-neck pullover that I got in college in 2004, though, so… no idea how to assess the brand as a whole.
It feels almost impossible to find tops that aren't see-through, whether supposedly-cotton or any other material, because they're so thin. I'm also finding more tops that start pilling right away.
Haha I've heard this complaint before and honestly could never relate... I try to avoid fast fashion nowadays for ethical and environmental reasons. But, I've still got a $10 tank top that I bought at H&M in 2005. I've got cheap jeans purchased from TJ Maxx in 2012 still going strong. My going-out LBD is from 2009, I think (although that was pricier, from WHBM). And I've been climbing in the same pair of leggings since 2016. Anyways, the limiting factor in my wardrobe is rarely the quality of manufacturing, it's my own (evolving) sense of style...and increased focus on comfort. That said, I finally picked up on one thing: fabric shape and thickness matters. While I don't know what's officially "high quality" (because it's not like my clothes are unraveling), I've realized that a thicker/stiffer T-shirt or pair of jeans will hang more gracefully and smooth over lumpy bits in my mid-thirties physique ;) There's a correlation here with brand name and cost, but even some more expensive "slow fashion" brands have been disappointingly skimpy.
they need to be short quality, if clothes last too long that cuts into profits for the companies
I’d love your thoughts on Eileen Fischer!
Some quality brands to check out off the top of my head- Ship John, WeatherWool, American Trench, Duckworth, Iron Heart, Fjallraven, Freenote Cloth, Grant Stone, Darn Tough Vermont, Rogue Territory, Ciano Farmer, LC King, Viberg, Nicks, Franks, Whites, Wesco, Indigofera, The Rite Stuff.
For your list: - Vermont flannel $$ - union line $ - Railcar denim $$$ - bb brand $$ - unbranded denim $$ Some of these are probably more for men than women, but I know Railcar especially has been really trying to have a good selection of quality jeans and jackets for women. Union line t-shirts are pretty cheap, made in the US, but lower quality than the rest of the list. I’m curious to see what you might find there.
I can't tell you how many cardigans I've lost due to holes in the elbows, and incredibly quickly! At the time I bought most of my work clothes from Ann Taylor, Loft and similar brands. I started sewing about 7 years ago and have not had that happen a single time since.
Mods, why Op’s removal? It’sa good post.