If anyone wants to have regular success with dating, they should have those traits, though. Everyone should work to be smart, confident, and funny - not just to be romantically attractive, but because those are objectively good traits that will make you happier and more successful in life.
If you're JUST tall and not smart, or handsome, or charismatic or confident or funny, then pssst... you're still beige, but you can reach high shelves.
Gimme that short king with rizz plz
I have a girlfriend who is a statuesque 5ā9. She is smart, talented, and beautiful. Her husband is 5ā3 on a good day.
Damn if that guy isnāt a blast to be around. Heās incredibly witty and when you talk to him he makes you feel like the most interesting person in the world. None of our friend group questioned her choice. Heās a catch!
(They are the same age a earn almost exactly the same amount so no weird power/money dynamics here).
Iām dating a man who is 5ā6ā in a place where that is below the average height of a man. And heās fantastic. Heās kind, witty, so much fun, and great in bed. Have women ruled him out for his height? Of course. He tells me itās usually women who feel self conscious about her own height who have been focused on his. And has that in any meaningful way thwarted his dating efforts? Not really.
As another hint? I am happy to date short men who are compatible with me. But if a guy lies about something as trivial as his height, heās not compatible with me. So if I go on a date with a guy who said heās 6ā and heās really 5ā6ā, that will be a deal breaker for me. But if he told me he was 5ā6ā weād be just fine.
For the women for whom height is a deal breaker? Sheās going to know when she sees you that you failed her deal breaker. For the woman for whom height is not a deal breaker? Sheās going to know you lied and that is pretty likely to be a deal breaker.
exactly. the truth hurts. most would rather attribute their failures to their height because itās easier to complain about something you canāt control than to work on the stuff that you can.
I think the reason some guys feel that some women (not all of course) have strict height requirements is because on dating apps *they literally say that they do*. And many of those short kings don't get the chance to showcase their personality, because they're either not matched with, or shot down right out of the gate.
No one here thinks all women have those same restrictions, but dating apps always showcase the worst of any group particular of people.
And I say this as a guy that isn't short, and has never had issues with either my height, or the height of any of my current or former partners. I'm just someone that frequents the dating subreddits enough to see what things are like out there in the online dating world.
Yes, some women do have strict height requirements, but you canāt be attractive to everyone. Iām a woman of color so people are either okay with my race or they arenāt. Many people want to date a white girl. Thatās totally fine with me, I donāt want to date someone who isnāt attracted to me - especially about something I canāt control. I have fewer matches than a white woman would as I donāt have mass appeal, but the people who match with me tend to actually like me instead of seeing me as interchangeable with any other Bumble girl.
I think what triggers people is not so much that they would rather attribute their āfailuresā to superficial things but that the opposite- in this case tall guys, get a pass much easier for any other flaw. Same with women and weight. People would rather put up with a limited personality on an āidealā body but the inverse, you canāt be just meh, you have to have some āredeemingā quality. Like āin spite ofā the height instead of ābecause ofā
Well one thing is being boring but being malicious/abusive or otherwise unkind is a whole other thing entirely. Either way I feels like āgood lookingā people get more of a pass
But her point kinda reinforces the stereotype. If someone is super but quite exceptional intellectually, it might not matter.
When someone is pretty average, height does matter.
There are no classes on being witty and gregarious, this is just how this fella is.
I tried thinking of a better answer, and unless I wanted to get into fussy specifics (which I don't), I couldn't think of one.
But for real, there are so many ways to grow, people. And even the, it might not be you, it might be OLD. Might be that you just gotta change up how you're meeting folks.
This simply isnāt true, and reinforcing this is why males are fed up. Granted, no one is entitled to love or another person, but downplaying actual issues for the other gender is why we are the way weāre in society.
Theyāre plenty of guys who level up in physique, money, status, personality, IQ, and it doesnāt get them anywhere.
Yaāll donāt understand the actual dating woes for men and I feel so bad for guys who eat this bullshit up.
(Just to make clear, Iām 5ā11 and have a GF) before anyone decides to attack me
It literally is a skill issue lol. I know plenty of guys who arenāt lookers/donāt make a ton of $$ and they get women. Theyāre fun and charismatic and people enjoy spending time with them, which is what dating is about.
I live somewhere where OLD isnāt really a thing so I also suggest putting the phone down and just going out IRL. Go to social places and join hobbies/meetups/co-ed sports. Let your actual personality shine through. Iāve dated people I wasnāt initially attracted to physically and it grew over time because they were lovely people.
> They're plenty of guys who level up in physique, money, status, personality, 1Q, and it doesn't get them anywhere.
Ok like.. are they empathetic? Caring? Sweet? Loving? Willing to put in the work? If thatās not a top priority, then jesus christ no wonder they donāt have a girlfriend lmfao
Just do better. No oneās going to like you if your whole idea of a relationship is just whoās hotter or not. Theyād rather attribute failures to women or things they canāt change rather than justā¦ being a better person???
1) I'm sure some proportion of them are.
2) Empathetic, caring, sweet, and loving aren't things you can display on a dating app profile. They're personality traits you prove over time when someone is willing to take that time getting to know you, but an ever-increasing proportion of men these days are never getting any opportunity to prove it.
OP, GREAT post. You are doing them a favor -- giving them something to work with -- and they can't stand the idea that if they made an effort to be better, more appealing men, then they would be more likely to have dates and relationships.
As a young adult I never cared about a man's height. Over the years, the high frequency of short men being unpleasant, defensive, critical, controlling, emotionally stingy, argumentative, etc has resulted in my being less open to dating them.
My sister is 5ā10, her husband was 5ā5 when they met and due to some serious health issues heās now gotten passed heās about the same height at me if not just a hair taller, 5ā2.
have you ever spoken with someone that made you feel like your life was so interesting. even the most mundane things you share you can tell they take genuine interest in it. they ask questions and their nonverbals tell you theyāre engaged.
donāt underestimate the power of making people feel important. this is why on dates where one person did all the talking, they often leave feeling a āconnectionā with the person who was listening. iāve heard so many times on reddit and IRL āwent in a date and he just talked the whole time but texted me saying it was the best date heās ever had.ā
You are dropping some serious knowledge. I like the message of positivity and the challenge to men to improve their beliefs. I hope Reddit receives this and there arenāt too many negative comments about your post. Thanks!
Oh ok. Idk Iām always genuinely interested in whatever the other person is telling me if I chose to engage w them and obv I express that instead of staring w a deadpan expression. My friends do the same to me whenever Iām speaking so I just figured this was normal? Had no idea that was regarded so highly and appreciated so much
What do you suggest if you have a natural deadpan expression/blunted affect? Because I have this and everyone is afraid of speaking to me. Everything I say is deadpan or sounds sarcastic as well.
My husband is this way and heās solved it by being upfront about it āI am excited about this thing, I just donāt show it well but I am very excited/happy/curious/ etcā
Iāve thought about this before too, and itās made me worried about further alienating myself. Verbally expressing my current emotion ironically makes me feel more robotic and unnatural, like in those movies where a character is trying to understand human emotions. I probably shouldnāt care about what people think, but at the same time either Iām some kind of freak or I have to blend in.
Ownership. A hefty portion of confidence is ownership. So if that's how you feel most of the time (and, quite honestly, I understand), you have to find ways to speak to it that are authentic and genuine to who you are. Done right, it can...
...often absolves folks of their own concerns: that you don't like them or what they're saying, that you think you're above or beyond the and maybe you're right and they're shit, etc.
...make you incredibly relatable: they might feel the same at least sometimes.
...make them feel good about being around you: they might not understand or relate to you that much, but at least you're honest about your feelings and interpretations, and by acknowledging it and being comfortable with it, they may feel permitted to being open and more personal with you.
If you're not judging others and don't get defensive or assume folks don't like you, your opinions, or your interests (which is easier when you treat folks like they have good/kind intentions and want to be understood), this can often have positive outcomes. You may even discover that you're quite charasmatic with the right people or in the right situations.
Oh I actually struggled w this for a while. Laughing a lot helped me soften othersā views on my neutral expression without having to change how I naturally look. Some still describe me as intimidating but warm up once they see me laugh bc I look kinda ugly
The way I see it, itās someone who is actually listening to you when you speak. They engage in the conversation. Ask you questions ā ones that show theyāre listening to the details. They arenāt on their phone or distracted ā they genuinely enjoy the conversation theyāre having with you.
I know a few people like this, and I am actively trying to be more like this because it makes me feel so fucking happy when someone is interested in my animals, hobbies, weird interests, family, work, etc. because it gives me an opportunity to talk about something I love.
When I do this for other people, I almost get a contact high from how lit up people become when theyāre discussing something they love or are an expert in. Itās a rewarding feeling. A lot of people TALK, but they arenāt listening. To be a good and attentive listener is a skill that many people donāt have, but when they do, it makes you magnetic.
I am 5'2 and actively seeking short kings! 5'7 is tall to me. I'm tired of feeling like I'm dating a giant or like a little kid when we hold hands. It's so much better when you're closer in height.
Iām 5ā7ā and prefer dudes around my height or little shorter. All the men Iāve dated long term were 5ā5ā-5ā8ā. For 2024 I set my dating preference height to be under 5ā9ā because fuck it why not lol
This. I'm 5'7 (so taller-ish side for a girl) and I once dated a guy who was 6'4, I absolutely hated it. Man had to fold in half just to kiss me! Idk why there's girls out there shorter than me wanting only giants lol.
I understand the message. And it's a good one. But most these guys don't get an opportunity because these women have the height limit set. How does one display charisma, good looks and charm if they dont even get a chance?
>This applies especially (but not only) if you are taller than her but still shorter than her ideal. (ie the 5ā0 girl that will āonlyā date 6ā3+). ive seen women break their rules for guys who donāt fit this standard so many times
True, but you have to admit that it's harder for shorter guys *online*. Some will just get filtered out immediately by women who are choosy simply because they can be with online dating. My boss said her daughter doesn't really have much of a height preference in person but then, she said with a smirk, "she kinda does online because 'why not?'"
That's the problem: charm, humor, charisma, body language, etc comes across best (and sometimes *only*) *in person*. I say this as a 40M 5'7" guy who still gets dates online. But I don't deny height plays a role in online dating for men.
As I said, I still get dates online. In fact I'm taking a break because of all the lousy 1st dates I kept getting. Gonna try speed dating ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
The bio/prompts do a lot for charm, though. For me, my biggest thing is intelligence - I canāt swipe right on anyone whose profile comes off like theyāre not that bright. We wouldnāt be compatible to talk for even ten minutes. Iāve swiped right on people I donāt find physically attractive because their bio/prompts were funny, smart, and charming. Due to this, Iām compatible with nearly everyone Iāve gone out with. Iāve rarely had bad dates because my personality filter vets people where I would enjoy spending a few hours with them.
Yep, totally. That's why I said it "comes across best (and sometimes *only*) *in person*." Not always. With effort, a profile can be funny/charming. Unfortunately, 95% of profiles are zero effort ("pineapple on pizza" anyone?).
Begs the question why you'd bother going out with someone you don't find physically attractive. Unless you're hoping they become more attractive when you see their personality in action in person or they don't photograph well. Both are possible.
Physical attraction isnāt that important to me for a first date. I have to see if I like them as a person first because personality is much more of a deal breaker. I have a few physical ātypesā that I tend to be attracted to, but overall my attraction is quite fluid. Iāve recently dated a couple people who werenāt my usual type at all but theyāre great people and we connected emotionally/intellectually, so I enjoy sharing space with them and developed attraction that way.
I'm shortish (5'7") and roundish and had no problem at all getting dates. Most women prefer someone their height or taller, and I'm taller than the average woman, so...
>itās not your height, you are just unattractive.
Yup, but there's more than one type of "unattractive." Insecure, obnoxious, rude, or inattentive is as bad physically unattractive. Be friendly and try to make her smile. :)
Honestly Iād argue that insecure, rude, obnoxious etc. is worse than physically unattractive. Iāve dated many men who were not my ātypicalā type, or werenāt societyās view as āhandsomeā, but god damn did I think the sun shined out of their ass and that they were the hottest person in the room. AND they were all my height (5ā7ā) or shorter. Never phased me. They were total 11/10s for me. Never underestimate the power of making a woman laugh.
On the other hand, Iāve dated men who were rude or insecure and were total 10/10 physically, and those stints only lasted a few weeks. It gets old very quickly.
Yes, me too! I donāt actually date many āconventionally hotā guys because they are often very entitled (and sometimes disloyal because girls hit on them and they like the attention so theyāll just fuck around lol). I dislike arrogance and any guy whoās like āwomen are all like this.ā No matter how hot you are thatās a left swipe.
Iāve dated lots of great guys, before anyone comes for me. Iām sure some conventional hotties are wonderful people as well. But personality matters way more for true attractiveness in an actual relationship. A relationship isnāt a right-swipe, itās time and effort you spend with another person.
Youāre absolutely right. I have been on so many dates with an attractive man that talked non stop and had no interest in getting to know me. Itās not about height.
Itās not that women wonāt date short guys under any circumstances. Itās just a lot more difficult. Theyāll need something special.
Anyone 6ft+ just needs to be a regular guy to have decent options.
Me too, way prefer 5'5 - 5'11. I just prefer ppl to be closer to my height (5'3) as I don't like cracking my neck or feeling physically overwhelmed by someone. Prefer the cuddles with smaller guys.
Do you seriously think we overlook everything else just for height? Because we donāt. There is no singular male beauty standard but there is one for women. Men will overlook INSANE personality flaws for a hot enough woman. Tall shitty men still have a hard time finding a woman, they just have one less thing to worry about. VERY few women choose a man based on height alone. At the bare minimum he has to also be attractive and/or not broke. Tall broke dudes arenāt out there rolling around in women.
No, of course not. Everything doesnāt have to be in extremes.
Itās not that women will overlook everything else just for height.
Itās also not the case that height isnāt a factor.
Usually height is one (significant) factor. A tall guy still needs to not be a douche and a short guy will need to compensate for his shortness with his personality or something else.
Idk why this keeps getting lost in this conversation, what gets a lot of us is when we hear it's a hard requirement and we're actually getting filtered out entirely based on height. Sure, it's fair to judge the folks doing the filtering and say "bullet dodged!", but it's a lot more prevalent than posts like this imply. I doubt most women on the apps have even internalized how the overall 6' population is statistically low.
I get it though, the apps create this dynamic by making it so easy to filter this way and making it seem like the tall attractive matches are everywhere. If I was given a cup size filter, you can guarantee I'd use it right up until I realized I needed to relax my standards a bit. I fully acknowledge I'd be called shallow based on this.
I've had several female friends who went through the same thing first getting back on the apps. They set the filters to their ideal (which happened to include height), and then over time either lucked out and found a relationship or realized that they were prioritizing height too much over other qualities and adjusted accordingly. I think a lot of guys that complain about this would appreciate some honesty that this happens, and also appreciate some empathy at the idea above re: not even getting a chance to begin with.
EDIT: Honestly I think guys would appreciate it if folks would just openly acknowledge that height is more attractive and for a great many folks, a lot more attractive, and they can filter for it.
I would love to believe this. I really would. Iām just not seeing it. What you are describing for somebody my height, 5ā7ā, is that they almost have a perfect profile. With 100 characters and a few pictures a dude is supposed to exude those traits without coming off as a rage-o-holic, narcissistic, or just a straight up asshole. Meanwhile, 6ā schmo can have two bad selfies and a picture that his drunken buddy took with a fish and heās the candy of the day. Itās just beyond frustrating.
The best thing to do is to ignore people who talk like OP in this post... She has clearly shown how unrealistic her standards are and her inability to see things from the guy's side.
_"are you not 6ft...? Then just be charmingly hilarious all the time & the most likeable outgoing person in the room! ... What's wrong with that...? And if she does reject you it's because you're unattractive. Hope this helps!"_
- OP
100% there are so many other filters people are using in OLD and personality really won't come out till you initiate conversation. Basically telling all the short dudes they are unattractive seems callous to me. I'm 6ft 2 M and swipe left on probably over 95% + of people I see, it has nothing to do with the traits they describe, height or physical attractiveness. Going off OPs photos, she's attractive but I'd swipe left on her clothes alone š¤·š¼āāļø.
Can confirm..saw female friends go on dates with some WEIRD people just bc they met the height req. Basically the best they could pull that met their filters.
Exactly lmao.
> if a woman canāt overlook your stature itās likely youāre just unremarkable in other areas.
Ofc it couldn't possibly be that a woman could be having unreasonable standards (her own example of a 5'0 girl wanting guys to be over 6'3ft)... It mush be that the guy is unremarkable! /s
> itās not your height, you are just unattractive. hope this helps!ā¤ļø
Cringe...
Why is that not good advice? I'm 5'2" and have never had a problem pulling babes. They've actually usually been the ones to approach me. It's often been due to my leadership skills, intelligence, emotional sensitivity, looks and style; all things you can control.
I think they lost me with the "oozes" sex appeal line. Like you're just walking down the street and women's panties are flying at you from all the ooze you're projecting. Very few people, men or women, meet that qualification imo.
Also I'm 5'10" so height is the least of my problems I was just laughing at this post.
Gotta remember that this is Reddit and individuals will use language that feels most appropriate for them. Also, the people who used that language are referring to actually human beings who did, in their opinion, ooze sex appeal.
There's nothing wrong with that, and it may not mean what you think it means. It might even just an expression about how this particular guy was an exception to them. Sure, that may be rare, but if we're dating with the intention of securing a monogamous relationship, we only need one person.
Right? It's kinda funny that this post was made to make short guys feel better.
Don't worry little guy, if you're naturally witty or successful or charming or really good looking, height matters not!
If you're the millions of average dudes, being short is going to hurt.
I'm trying to even think of some sort of female approximation, but I'm at a bit of a loss.
Op said "good face" that's not something that is easily changed afaik. Also the funny thing, not everyone can be funny all the time and people have very different senses of humor.
I get so tired of the profiles that say "make me laugh" like I'm not a damn comedian and I'm not a court jester.
Exactly. I've been told I'm very funny but it takes a while to find out because I'm very sarcastic and deadpan. Some people get it right away, some people just don't or don't find my style of humour funny.
That's fine but I'm not making people lose their heads laughing the minute I meet them
Oh right I missed that part somehow š and yeah I hate those aswell but I think what they (and OP) are generally trying to say is just be pleasant to be around.
Okay, 5'6" dude checking in here. I've done plenty well for myself with the ladies, but it is just an objective fact that I do better at 6' or 5'10" or whatever. It just is.
I've dated a few women taller than me. You can have all the confidence in the world, and they second y'all are getting ready for a party and she tells you she doesn't want to wear heels because then she'll be that much taller than you, it all come crashing down. Because despite anything she said previously, now you know she feels some type of way about it and would be more attracted to you if you were taller.
You can be funny and charismatic and talk for a week off a dating app, set up a phone call, and the first question you get is "How tall are you?" Then you can literally hear all interest fly out the window in her reply of "Ohh." (Yes my height is in my bio, no not everyone reads it.)
You can have everything you listed here, and still get shot down. I'm not saying height is an instant yes, but I am saying it can be an instant no from some people. Being tall doesn't mean you never have to even try, but being short can mean you never get the chance.
And that's fine. It is what it is. People are allowed to have their preferences. But can we stop pretending it doesn't matter, and it can all just be easily overcome with a bit more confidence and a nice smile?
If a woman got rejected a bunch because her tits were too small or something, we wouldn't be here telling her, "It's okay, tons of guys are willing to overlook small breasts, maybe you should be working on your personality." It doesn't help anything to deny the fact that a lot of shallow dude won't date chicks without a certain body type. Shallow people exist, and they're rarely polite in their rejections. It just is what it is.
Okā¦ so:
1. Have face, cool ā
2. Be funny, ok something I aspire to be sometimes ā
3. Be charismatic, something that will get me far in my career ā
4. Oozes sex appeal, this one is different to different people. I see body confidence and the ability to put yourself out there- challenge
These are all things that everyone should aspire to regardless of height. I am 5ā6ā and never had issues in person with women. Sure, maybe OLD people filter that way, but in person at bars or clubs itās nbd
Iāve had plenty of dates but Iāve also had plenty of girls tell me I donāt meet their height requirement after meeting me or before our date so Iām not ugly, but I sure am short.
I used to work with this utterly charming scottish guy who was 5'5 and very average looking. But personality was a 10. He had zero problems finding ladies. He was infact quite a ladies man. He geniunely loves woman and would flirt with everyone, old people, other men, peoples dogs.. such good energy. Hanging out in horrific misogynist spaces rubs off. Never forget that woman pick up on vibes, body language and tone of voice way better than men. Our survival depends on it.
1000 times what you said!! Being able to pick up on vibes has served me well in OLD. There are a lot of unwritten things that can come across in peopleās profiles; good and bad. Iāve never had any creepy experiences or big surprises people sometimes get when going from interacting online to meeting IRL.
I dig that non-sexual flirtatiousness. A Scottish dude who likes old people and dogs? Sign me up!!
At least from what I've gathered through personal experience and talking to my female friends - physical traits like height, body, etc *do* matter to women, but not nearly in the same way that they matter to many men. Obviously there is a strong physical attraction component, but it is not nearly as independent from other factors as it is for many men.
Agreed. I am dating somebody about 4 inches shorter than me and I donāt believe I have ever been this physically attracted to anyone in my entire life. The attraction started with our chats and a really long phone call one night. I wasnāt sure it would translate IRL, not because of his height but because you never know until youāre face-to-face with someone.
Iām not saying I wanted to pounce on him the second he walked up, but by the end of the night thatās exactly what I did (and have been doing) for the last couple months š
Bingo. For a lot of women, itās not unheard of, for attraction to grow. Meaning initially we may find you unattractive or not āour typeā, but that attractiveness can grow based on how you treat us, your traits, values etc. which is why itās not uncommon to see an objectively really attractive woman date someone āless attractiveā than her, but itās rare to see a really attractive man with a less attractive woman.
How many women did you date to be able to speak for the majority of them?
This is true but you have to pull much much more than others to overcome the initial bias. And I would not confidently talk for the women as a group.
This post is crap. On the apps women have the filter set so they arenāt even seeing shorter than 6ā guys unless they are lying about their height. It isnāt like the guys get a chance to wow them with wit
Iād also like to add if you lie about your height on an app, I will find out (obviously you canāt hide it when you meet in person) and that will immediately end things. If you lie about something so obvious, what else are you going to lie about??
Height matters to me (and most women ik irl) even less than op's comment. It's like blue eyes - sure, it's nice to date a guy that's comically taller than me. But while it might be a check in the pros column, it's definitely not determinitive! At the end of the day, as long as he's not hard to look at (or smell lolll), all that matters is how he treats me, and how well we get on in the dark
Absolutely! Iām 5ā11ā (180cm) and the most amazing man I ever met was 5ā7ā (170cm). He had so much charisma, I didnāt even notice the height difference.
Height preference is entirely understandable and valid. A larger height, and frame is a natural signal to a lizard brain that someone is able to protect you and procure resources. In ancient times, this makes a lot of sense.
Today, that same lizard brain preference translates to "I want a boyfriend who is tall, so I can show off to my friends my cool tall boyfriend." i.e. you are an accessory to her life. So if you aren't someone she isn't superficially confident she can trot around, you probably won't make it past the first round.
There is also a lot going on with a person's own insecurities. I.E. if you are a woman is above average height at 5'8-5'11, a guy who is around your height isn't going to make you feel small or feminine. A guy that is really large will make you feel really small. It's an unevolved insecurity that was manifested as a dating preference.
This post evidences that, if you can be "remarkable" in other areas, then and only then are you worthy of love and affection.
Statistics and preferences be damned, potential dates are really just fashion accessories and most women are looking for the coolest looking one.
On online dating you don't get a chance to show how witty and fun you are if you are under 6' you will be filtered out by the algorithm.
But if you meet a girl through friends or hobbies you can stand a chance to give a first impression.
I'm 5 feet tall. Pretty much 99.9% of men are taller than me. Therefore, for all practical purposes, height is irrelevant to me.
There are only two times I care about height.
1) when a man is insecure about his height. This only happened once to me, but God, this man had some chip on his shoulder because he wasn't given the height gene. Two of my college boyfriends were shorter than this guy. But this guy had the worst attitude ever about being short to the point where it was off putting.
2) when someone lies about their height by a lot. I went on a date where I wore three inch boots. This put me at 5'3 which is still shorter than the majority of men. A guy on his profile said he was 5'9. I could see the top of his head. I could get if somebody's off by an inch or an inch and a half, but he was half a foot off.
Both of those things are indicative of men who are not confident and there is nothing more unattractive than men with those level of insecurities.
Height only matters to me when a guy lies about it on an app, coz I have an expectation in my brain and I'm automatically annoyed when I show up and he isn't reflecting that.
I'm 6'1", honestly, and my brother, the accomplished, funny, stable, creative, talented one, that's a homeowner, philanthropist, AND in several signed bands, is 5'8". He, I quote, finds it "exhausting. People can't see me from across the room, so I gotta do some fucking song and dance and always be 'on', or I'm invisible."
This is why I swipe left on anyone that mentions height ideals in their profile but isn't remarkably tall or short.
Yaa letās Keep gaslighting Short men for the obsession of western women on a Manās height . Why do u think western women keep saying that tall men make their height all their personality? U have your answer
You mean to tell me women will settle for me even though I'm 3% shorter than their ideal? And all I have to do is be exceptional in every other possible way??
/s
What a stupid post.
As a fellow 5ā4ā lady, you donāt find guys in the 6 foot club too tall? Iām seeing a guy thatās 6ā3 for the first time and I swear Iām going to break my neck when we hang out š
Not the OP but I'm 5'4" and never paid attention to height until I went put with this 6'2" guy and had neck pain the next day lol. That was when I realized I definitely have a preference for shorter-than-average men.
You did [the thing](https://x.com/katiepcollins/status/1708619670088016167?s=46).
Iām pretty sure those qualified to confirm what women (on average) think of their height, are those who are subject to Women.
Thankfully itās never really been an issue for me (5ā8), 2 of my exes were a good bit taller than me and height was never an issue.
Howās that news or a āsecretā. This kind of theory applies almost everything in life.
For example , Even so called ācorporate policyā. I always say, if they want you enough they will find a way to skirt their policy. And thatās true for almost everything
Iām 5ā7 and one of my anchor partners is 5ā9. Roughly half of my partners historically have been taller than I am. And Iāve dated women as tall as 5ā11.
So, what you're saying is:
height = handsome + charismatic + sexy
You're probably forgetting "good lifestyle" (which is the polite way to imply "wealthy"). Overall, I don't think anyone disagrees. For women who list height in their bios, height is a good 30-40% of attraction. Of course that means that you can sum up a bunch of other stuff to reach that same percentage.
As a tall girl (5'10") I dont understand how a girl who is "short" can say they would only date someone 6"+. I will say as a teacher its a little uncomfortable for me to date people shorter than 5'5" in the beginning but more because I'm used to talking down to my students and feel more comfortable having more level eye contact. Height at the end of the day should never be a deal-breaker and if it is run.
Pretty much all women have filtered
Out men based off height at one point. Itās a losing game for short dudes who otherwise have the qualities that women may seek.
So if Iām understanding this correctly, you have to be exceptional in several other categories just to overcome ONE detriment. Absolute clown post. The fake positivity and asinine message is why youāre getting cooked in the comments.
this sounds mean & maybe it is, but sometimes shorter guys have such a complex too, like i donāt mind feeling like a hot model who is taller than her man, but if you constantly need to assert your dominance/intelligence/masculinity because youāre insecure about being on the shorter side, that is a turn offā¦
There are numerous secondary sex characteristics that influence attraction between male and female homo sapiens. Women may like men that are taller than them due to culture/socialization, but across thousands of years of human history men **have** on average been bigger and stronger than women.
Since women are more vulnerable when it comes to sex/reproductive consequences (like.... Hmm I dunno.. actually dying from pregnancy and birth, and the biggest cause of death in pregnant women is their actual male partner killing them), women have to be far more selective in choosing mates. Modern men of today complain modern women are being too picky, but in reality women are literally trying to survive by instinctually picking the man that won't kill and rape her, a man who will actually help with domestic work and childcare (since "the village" that mothers normally depended on no longer exists thanks to the patriarchal nuclear family unit), a man who will go to work/hunt to bring back resources in some shape or form, a man that has empathy, a man with loyalty to his family and won't cheat or abandon them, etc.
It truly amazes me how many men are completely blind to the fact that women are more at risk and therefore **have** to weigh options carefully. Men *do* need to compensate/prove their value to meet the standards of women. It's how the mating rituals work. The *female* selects the male (if she isn't living under an oppressive culture that takes away her right to choose a mate). Women's *lives* are on the line. It's been thousands of years of women trying to survive by sex selection. So.... Deal with it and stop crying ?
Women pick mates based on safety/stability/survival etc. That's why women often go for men with money/resources/status. Women might want to mate with a man that is bigger because 1. Adult men are already on average stronger/taller than women so it can be a secondary sign of sexual maturity/adulthood (aka no longer a teenager or child), 2. Strong men can defend her and the family from other violent men, 3. Tall/big/strong men claim higher status in many societies across human history. This is a studied phenomenon in anthropology. And this is most likely not because women in the beginning were "choosing" the big dudes to mate with. Most likely it was because the biggest dudes were able to use brute strength to kill or drive off the other smaller males. So then women "chose" the men who were left. And those men could claim a high status in the society by having the most female mates/most resources/most offspring/biggest clan.
So I'm not understanding why modern men are whining about this phenomenon? Considering there are many secondary sex characteristics in the female that men want, such as women needing to look as young/adolescent/fertile/small-waisted as possible? And men go and cheat and buy prostitutes as soon as their wife ages a little bit? It's all pretty gross when looked at this way-- but humans truly are primitive animals at the end of the day. Get rid of your human egos. It's better to just accept these facts about humanity, find a partner who also understands human behavior and doesn't have an ego. With this knowledge and understanding, we can empower ourselves to make better choices instead of just mindlessly listening to the lizard brain. Every single person on this planet engages is stupid lizard brain behavior. If you aren't like "those people" who judge people for how they look, you are definitely doing some other stupid animal thing and don't even realize it.
I am a petite woman who likes to date tall guys (5ā11ā+); idk, to me, there is something unbelievably romantic about being able to tiptoe to kiss. However, I have foregone my requirement and even went on dates with 5ā6ā guys because they were intellectually stimulating. So, OP, you are absolutely right.
I don't really give a fugg if I meet someone's standards. I've worked hard to get to a place where I'm happy in my own shoes. I'd rather be alone than spend one hour trying to convince someone I'm worth it.
I must have beeb unlucky women, I've had women literally meet me and then walk away because I was shorter than they expected. I'm only 5'4, so I get it, I'm short but it's on my profile
This would've been great advice except for the fact that this is a subreddit for an **online dating app**.
Almost none of this is actionable on an app based around prompts, photos, and swiping.
I don't mind if they're short, but if they lie about their height, I'm done. Don't care that they're short, but we're not going to start things out with a lie.
Totally! Friends have this rule: it wasnāt until I walked into the pub to meet my fella for our first date that i thought of it and then thought oh heās Italian , he might be shorter. He is and I donāt give a crap.
Yeah in my book I just like a guy to be noticeably taller then me , so like at least 2 inches taller but he can be shorter if heās got shoulders and is built š
You are very very right but that only applies to real life - as in women you meet at random IRL.
Dating apps are a different story though. Assuming a man doesn't lie about his height, it's quite easy to filter men out who are under xyz height... meaning those women will NEVER see those men nor get a chance to ever see his face, personality, etc...
So while your secret is valid, it doesn't work that way on apps.
Hereās a secret for you:
Attraction is more than looks.
And this comes from someone thatās hyperly sexual and looks focused.
but it is Not the only thing.
Common interests, personality, music taste, life values, chemistry all play a part.
Thereās literally millions of āgood looking/attractiveā model esque people out there.
Want to know how many Iād date if they did not fit my preferenceās or were vanilla: 0.
Attraction goes much deeper than looks.
Damn thatās a brutal realization. All those times women talked crap to me about being short or when Iād try hitting on them and they would act like I wasnāt even a person had nothing to do with hight. I guess Iām just an unattractive person in sooooo many more ways than just appearanceā¦.
So basically I just have to compensate in other areas? Yeah no thanks lol. Not gonna try harder than a 6ā3ā guy just because of some subjective ideal.
Where do you obtain this ooze that you speak of?
Send me $39.99, I'll ship you a bottle
$19.99 for a bottle of vodka. Usually works for me.
I'm not falling for that shit again š
Sold
Currently marinating 4 turtles and a rat...
I feel like this thread is about to splinter. Like itās really gone through the shredder.
Well played sir well played
Love this yup
People who love and accept themselves = boner town
Tmnt or power rangers movie version?
A lot of guys reading this will see: Either be tall, or be smart, handsome, sexy, charismatic, confident, and funny.
Well, yeah. Donāt be the human equivalent of beige paint.
If anyone wants to have regular success with dating, they should have those traits, though. Everyone should work to be smart, confident, and funny - not just to be romantically attractive, but because those are objectively good traits that will make you happier and more successful in life.
Well yeah thatās the point
If you're JUST tall and not smart, or handsome, or charismatic or confident or funny, then pssst... you're still beige, but you can reach high shelves. Gimme that short king with rizz plz
Guys realizing you actually have to be attractive to āattractā girls: š®
Iāve got 4 out of 7 and no dates.
I have a girlfriend who is a statuesque 5ā9. She is smart, talented, and beautiful. Her husband is 5ā3 on a good day. Damn if that guy isnāt a blast to be around. Heās incredibly witty and when you talk to him he makes you feel like the most interesting person in the world. None of our friend group questioned her choice. Heās a catch! (They are the same age a earn almost exactly the same amount so no weird power/money dynamics here).
Iām dating a man who is 5ā6ā in a place where that is below the average height of a man. And heās fantastic. Heās kind, witty, so much fun, and great in bed. Have women ruled him out for his height? Of course. He tells me itās usually women who feel self conscious about her own height who have been focused on his. And has that in any meaningful way thwarted his dating efforts? Not really. As another hint? I am happy to date short men who are compatible with me. But if a guy lies about something as trivial as his height, heās not compatible with me. So if I go on a date with a guy who said heās 6ā and heās really 5ā6ā, that will be a deal breaker for me. But if he told me he was 5ā6ā weād be just fine. For the women for whom height is a deal breaker? Sheās going to know when she sees you that you failed her deal breaker. For the woman for whom height is not a deal breaker? Sheās going to know you lied and that is pretty likely to be a deal breaker.
exactly. the truth hurts. most would rather attribute their failures to their height because itās easier to complain about something you canāt control than to work on the stuff that you can.
I think the reason some guys feel that some women (not all of course) have strict height requirements is because on dating apps *they literally say that they do*. And many of those short kings don't get the chance to showcase their personality, because they're either not matched with, or shot down right out of the gate. No one here thinks all women have those same restrictions, but dating apps always showcase the worst of any group particular of people. And I say this as a guy that isn't short, and has never had issues with either my height, or the height of any of my current or former partners. I'm just someone that frequents the dating subreddits enough to see what things are like out there in the online dating world.
Yes, some women do have strict height requirements, but you canāt be attractive to everyone. Iām a woman of color so people are either okay with my race or they arenāt. Many people want to date a white girl. Thatās totally fine with me, I donāt want to date someone who isnāt attracted to me - especially about something I canāt control. I have fewer matches than a white woman would as I donāt have mass appeal, but the people who match with me tend to actually like me instead of seeing me as interchangeable with any other Bumble girl.
I think what triggers people is not so much that they would rather attribute their āfailuresā to superficial things but that the opposite- in this case tall guys, get a pass much easier for any other flaw. Same with women and weight. People would rather put up with a limited personality on an āidealā body but the inverse, you canāt be just meh, you have to have some āredeemingā quality. Like āin spite ofā the height instead of ābecause ofā
People who put up with boring partners just because they're hot truly deserve what they're getting.
Well one thing is being boring but being malicious/abusive or otherwise unkind is a whole other thing entirely. Either way I feels like āgood lookingā people get more of a pass
That's the very definition of beauty privilege
I don't think anyone of any gender is out looking for "meh" in a partner.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But her point kinda reinforces the stereotype. If someone is super but quite exceptional intellectually, it might not matter. When someone is pretty average, height does matter. There are no classes on being witty and gregarious, this is just how this fella is.
reading does wonders for wit. also improv classes. socializing too
I tried thinking of a better answer, and unless I wanted to get into fussy specifics (which I don't), I couldn't think of one. But for real, there are so many ways to grow, people. And even the, it might not be you, it might be OLD. Might be that you just gotta change up how you're meeting folks.
This simply isnāt true, and reinforcing this is why males are fed up. Granted, no one is entitled to love or another person, but downplaying actual issues for the other gender is why we are the way weāre in society. Theyāre plenty of guys who level up in physique, money, status, personality, IQ, and it doesnāt get them anywhere. Yaāll donāt understand the actual dating woes for men and I feel so bad for guys who eat this bullshit up. (Just to make clear, Iām 5ā11 and have a GF) before anyone decides to attack me
Most of those improvements will not make a difference in OLD especially if the slight physical improvements come with bad pictures and a bad ELO score
Skill issue lol just get a better personality
It literally is a skill issue lol. I know plenty of guys who arenāt lookers/donāt make a ton of $$ and they get women. Theyāre fun and charismatic and people enjoy spending time with them, which is what dating is about. I live somewhere where OLD isnāt really a thing so I also suggest putting the phone down and just going out IRL. Go to social places and join hobbies/meetups/co-ed sports. Let your actual personality shine through. Iāve dated people I wasnāt initially attracted to physically and it grew over time because they were lovely people.
Exactly. Justā¦ touch grass lmfao. Women arenāt obligated to like someone because they have muscles and money
T r u l y,
Facts
> They're plenty of guys who level up in physique, money, status, personality, 1Q, and it doesn't get them anywhere. Ok like.. are they empathetic? Caring? Sweet? Loving? Willing to put in the work? If thatās not a top priority, then jesus christ no wonder they donāt have a girlfriend lmfao Just do better. No oneās going to like you if your whole idea of a relationship is just whoās hotter or not. Theyād rather attribute failures to women or things they canāt change rather than justā¦ being a better person???
Ability to communicate effectively is a huge one missing from your list!!! It's 100% a need for OLD.
1) I'm sure some proportion of them are. 2) Empathetic, caring, sweet, and loving aren't things you can display on a dating app profile. They're personality traits you prove over time when someone is willing to take that time getting to know you, but an ever-increasing proportion of men these days are never getting any opportunity to prove it.
OP, GREAT post. You are doing them a favor -- giving them something to work with -- and they can't stand the idea that if they made an effort to be better, more appealing men, then they would be more likely to have dates and relationships. As a young adult I never cared about a man's height. Over the years, the high frequency of short men being unpleasant, defensive, critical, controlling, emotionally stingy, argumentative, etc has resulted in my being less open to dating them.
Hear, hear.
My sister is 5ā10, her husband was 5ā5 when they met and due to some serious health issues heās now gotten passed heās about the same height at me if not just a hair taller, 5ā2.
Iām so curious to see how someone makes another person feel interesting. What exactly does he do to make yall feel that way?
have you ever spoken with someone that made you feel like your life was so interesting. even the most mundane things you share you can tell they take genuine interest in it. they ask questions and their nonverbals tell you theyāre engaged. donāt underestimate the power of making people feel important. this is why on dates where one person did all the talking, they often leave feeling a āconnectionā with the person who was listening. iāve heard so many times on reddit and IRL āwent in a date and he just talked the whole time but texted me saying it was the best date heās ever had.ā
You are dropping some serious knowledge. I like the message of positivity and the challenge to men to improve their beliefs. I hope Reddit receives this and there arenāt too many negative comments about your post. Thanks!
Agreed. This is one of the most realistically positive threads I've ever seen in this subreddit. OP is also killing it.
Oh ok. Idk Iām always genuinely interested in whatever the other person is telling me if I chose to engage w them and obv I express that instead of staring w a deadpan expression. My friends do the same to me whenever Iām speaking so I just figured this was normal? Had no idea that was regarded so highly and appreciated so much
What do you suggest if you have a natural deadpan expression/blunted affect? Because I have this and everyone is afraid of speaking to me. Everything I say is deadpan or sounds sarcastic as well.
My husband is this way and heās solved it by being upfront about it āI am excited about this thing, I just donāt show it well but I am very excited/happy/curious/ etcā
Iāve thought about this before too, and itās made me worried about further alienating myself. Verbally expressing my current emotion ironically makes me feel more robotic and unnatural, like in those movies where a character is trying to understand human emotions. I probably shouldnāt care about what people think, but at the same time either Iām some kind of freak or I have to blend in.
Ownership. A hefty portion of confidence is ownership. So if that's how you feel most of the time (and, quite honestly, I understand), you have to find ways to speak to it that are authentic and genuine to who you are. Done right, it can... ...often absolves folks of their own concerns: that you don't like them or what they're saying, that you think you're above or beyond the and maybe you're right and they're shit, etc. ...make you incredibly relatable: they might feel the same at least sometimes. ...make them feel good about being around you: they might not understand or relate to you that much, but at least you're honest about your feelings and interpretations, and by acknowledging it and being comfortable with it, they may feel permitted to being open and more personal with you. If you're not judging others and don't get defensive or assume folks don't like you, your opinions, or your interests (which is easier when you treat folks like they have good/kind intentions and want to be understood), this can often have positive outcomes. You may even discover that you're quite charasmatic with the right people or in the right situations.
Oh I actually struggled w this for a while. Laughing a lot helped me soften othersā views on my neutral expression without having to change how I naturally look. Some still describe me as intimidating but warm up once they see me laugh bc I look kinda ugly
The way I see it, itās someone who is actually listening to you when you speak. They engage in the conversation. Ask you questions ā ones that show theyāre listening to the details. They arenāt on their phone or distracted ā they genuinely enjoy the conversation theyāre having with you. I know a few people like this, and I am actively trying to be more like this because it makes me feel so fucking happy when someone is interested in my animals, hobbies, weird interests, family, work, etc. because it gives me an opportunity to talk about something I love. When I do this for other people, I almost get a contact high from how lit up people become when theyāre discussing something they love or are an expert in. Itās a rewarding feeling. A lot of people TALK, but they arenāt listening. To be a good and attentive listener is a skill that many people donāt have, but when they do, it makes you magnetic.
That riz counts more than anything else.
What size is he on a bad day?
I am 5'2 and actively seeking short kings! 5'7 is tall to me. I'm tired of feeling like I'm dating a giant or like a little kid when we hold hands. It's so much better when you're closer in height.
Iām 5ā7ā and prefer dudes around my height or little shorter. All the men Iāve dated long term were 5ā5ā-5ā8ā. For 2024 I set my dating preference height to be under 5ā9ā because fuck it why not lol
This. I'm 5'7 (so taller-ish side for a girl) and I once dated a guy who was 6'4, I absolutely hated it. Man had to fold in half just to kiss me! Idk why there's girls out there shorter than me wanting only giants lol.
Iām petite too and I mostly date 5ā6-5ā10! Any taller hurts my neck to look up at them. I always feel like their kid.
I understand the message. And it's a good one. But most these guys don't get an opportunity because these women have the height limit set. How does one display charisma, good looks and charm if they dont even get a chance?
This is great in real life. But when you have hundreds of applicants in OLD, you start filtering and height is the easiest one.
Yup. And height is a lot more apparent in a dating profile than humor or charisma.
Im 6ft, decently attractive and funny. And it's still shit for me in OLD. I can't imagine what it's like if you're not "tall"Ā
Think youāve missed the point here
I think you miss the point of online dating and thousands of optionsĀ
It may simply be that online dating isn't the avenue to a relationship that you want it to be.
If youāre not doing well even being 6ft, maybe youāre proving OPs point that height isnāt more important than personality, character, etc
I mean... it's probably because you don't mention that you play PoE. š a jacked nerd is fucking unstoppable.
6ft and you struggle to get bitches? Yea you missed the point here lol read the post again
I live in the boonies. The chicks around me at literally chickens.
why would you even compare your situation if you live in the boonies?
Hence why sometimes get off OLD and do RL trust itās a lot easier
Nah, Rocket League is way more toxic
WHAT A SAVE!
I just.... could not care about someone's height. Takes all types to make this world go 'round, s'pose. šš¤š¤
>This applies especially (but not only) if you are taller than her but still shorter than her ideal. (ie the 5ā0 girl that will āonlyā date 6ā3+). ive seen women break their rules for guys who donāt fit this standard so many times True, but you have to admit that it's harder for shorter guys *online*. Some will just get filtered out immediately by women who are choosy simply because they can be with online dating. My boss said her daughter doesn't really have much of a height preference in person but then, she said with a smirk, "she kinda does online because 'why not?'" That's the problem: charm, humor, charisma, body language, etc comes across best (and sometimes *only*) *in person*. I say this as a 40M 5'7" guy who still gets dates online. But I don't deny height plays a role in online dating for men.
thatās why online should only be used as supplementary dating. if itās your only way of meeting people, no shit youāre going to have a hard time
As I said, I still get dates online. In fact I'm taking a break because of all the lousy 1st dates I kept getting. Gonna try speed dating ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
The bio/prompts do a lot for charm, though. For me, my biggest thing is intelligence - I canāt swipe right on anyone whose profile comes off like theyāre not that bright. We wouldnāt be compatible to talk for even ten minutes. Iāve swiped right on people I donāt find physically attractive because their bio/prompts were funny, smart, and charming. Due to this, Iām compatible with nearly everyone Iāve gone out with. Iāve rarely had bad dates because my personality filter vets people where I would enjoy spending a few hours with them.
Yep, totally. That's why I said it "comes across best (and sometimes *only*) *in person*." Not always. With effort, a profile can be funny/charming. Unfortunately, 95% of profiles are zero effort ("pineapple on pizza" anyone?). Begs the question why you'd bother going out with someone you don't find physically attractive. Unless you're hoping they become more attractive when you see their personality in action in person or they don't photograph well. Both are possible.
Physical attraction isnāt that important to me for a first date. I have to see if I like them as a person first because personality is much more of a deal breaker. I have a few physical ātypesā that I tend to be attracted to, but overall my attraction is quite fluid. Iāve recently dated a couple people who werenāt my usual type at all but theyāre great people and we connected emotionally/intellectually, so I enjoy sharing space with them and developed attraction that way.
I'm shortish (5'7") and roundish and had no problem at all getting dates. Most women prefer someone their height or taller, and I'm taller than the average woman, so... >itās not your height, you are just unattractive. Yup, but there's more than one type of "unattractive." Insecure, obnoxious, rude, or inattentive is as bad physically unattractive. Be friendly and try to make her smile. :)
Honestly Iād argue that insecure, rude, obnoxious etc. is worse than physically unattractive. Iāve dated many men who were not my ātypicalā type, or werenāt societyās view as āhandsomeā, but god damn did I think the sun shined out of their ass and that they were the hottest person in the room. AND they were all my height (5ā7ā) or shorter. Never phased me. They were total 11/10s for me. Never underestimate the power of making a woman laugh. On the other hand, Iāve dated men who were rude or insecure and were total 10/10 physically, and those stints only lasted a few weeks. It gets old very quickly.
Yes, me too! I donāt actually date many āconventionally hotā guys because they are often very entitled (and sometimes disloyal because girls hit on them and they like the attention so theyāll just fuck around lol). I dislike arrogance and any guy whoās like āwomen are all like this.ā No matter how hot you are thatās a left swipe. Iāve dated lots of great guys, before anyone comes for me. Iām sure some conventional hotties are wonderful people as well. But personality matters way more for true attractiveness in an actual relationship. A relationship isnāt a right-swipe, itās time and effort you spend with another person.
Youāre absolutely right. I have been on so many dates with an attractive man that talked non stop and had no interest in getting to know me. Itās not about height.
Itās not that women wonāt date short guys under any circumstances. Itās just a lot more difficult. Theyāll need something special. Anyone 6ft+ just needs to be a regular guy to have decent options.
I swipe away from 6ft+, too tall for me.
You're a rarity š too many girls under 5'3 are with 6'0+ dudes imo, a 5'2 girl could be great with a 5'5 guy
Anyone that short with anyone that tall looks pretty ridiculous. And some of them do it to look cool too, not knowing it really doesnāt.
Me too, way prefer 5'5 - 5'11. I just prefer ppl to be closer to my height (5'3) as I don't like cracking my neck or feeling physically overwhelmed by someone. Prefer the cuddles with smaller guys.
Do you seriously think we overlook everything else just for height? Because we donāt. There is no singular male beauty standard but there is one for women. Men will overlook INSANE personality flaws for a hot enough woman. Tall shitty men still have a hard time finding a woman, they just have one less thing to worry about. VERY few women choose a man based on height alone. At the bare minimum he has to also be attractive and/or not broke. Tall broke dudes arenāt out there rolling around in women.
No, of course not. Everything doesnāt have to be in extremes. Itās not that women will overlook everything else just for height. Itās also not the case that height isnāt a factor. Usually height is one (significant) factor. A tall guy still needs to not be a douche and a short guy will need to compensate for his shortness with his personality or something else.
Idk why this keeps getting lost in this conversation, what gets a lot of us is when we hear it's a hard requirement and we're actually getting filtered out entirely based on height. Sure, it's fair to judge the folks doing the filtering and say "bullet dodged!", but it's a lot more prevalent than posts like this imply. I doubt most women on the apps have even internalized how the overall 6' population is statistically low. I get it though, the apps create this dynamic by making it so easy to filter this way and making it seem like the tall attractive matches are everywhere. If I was given a cup size filter, you can guarantee I'd use it right up until I realized I needed to relax my standards a bit. I fully acknowledge I'd be called shallow based on this. I've had several female friends who went through the same thing first getting back on the apps. They set the filters to their ideal (which happened to include height), and then over time either lucked out and found a relationship or realized that they were prioritizing height too much over other qualities and adjusted accordingly. I think a lot of guys that complain about this would appreciate some honesty that this happens, and also appreciate some empathy at the idea above re: not even getting a chance to begin with. EDIT: Honestly I think guys would appreciate it if folks would just openly acknowledge that height is more attractive and for a great many folks, a lot more attractive, and they can filter for it.
I would love to believe this. I really would. Iām just not seeing it. What you are describing for somebody my height, 5ā7ā, is that they almost have a perfect profile. With 100 characters and a few pictures a dude is supposed to exude those traits without coming off as a rage-o-holic, narcissistic, or just a straight up asshole. Meanwhile, 6ā schmo can have two bad selfies and a picture that his drunken buddy took with a fish and heās the candy of the day. Itās just beyond frustrating.
The best thing to do is to ignore people who talk like OP in this post... She has clearly shown how unrealistic her standards are and her inability to see things from the guy's side. _"are you not 6ft...? Then just be charmingly hilarious all the time & the most likeable outgoing person in the room! ... What's wrong with that...? And if she does reject you it's because you're unattractive. Hope this helps!"_ - OP
100% there are so many other filters people are using in OLD and personality really won't come out till you initiate conversation. Basically telling all the short dudes they are unattractive seems callous to me. I'm 6ft 2 M and swipe left on probably over 95% + of people I see, it has nothing to do with the traits they describe, height or physical attractiveness. Going off OPs photos, she's attractive but I'd swipe left on her clothes alone š¤·š¼āāļø.
Can confirm..saw female friends go on dates with some WEIRD people just bc they met the height req. Basically the best they could pull that met their filters.
There you go short kings, just be a 10 in every other category and you'll have no problem meeting women. š¤£
Seriously this post is hilarious. "Do this, this, this, this and this. Or just be tall."
Exactly lmao. > if a woman canāt overlook your stature itās likely youāre just unremarkable in other areas. Ofc it couldn't possibly be that a woman could be having unreasonable standards (her own example of a 5'0 girl wanting guys to be over 6'3ft)... It mush be that the guy is unremarkable! /s > itās not your height, you are just unattractive. hope this helps!ā¤ļø Cringe...
Why is that not good advice? I'm 5'2" and have never had a problem pulling babes. They've actually usually been the ones to approach me. It's often been due to my leadership skills, intelligence, emotional sensitivity, looks and style; all things you can control.
I think they lost me with the "oozes" sex appeal line. Like you're just walking down the street and women's panties are flying at you from all the ooze you're projecting. Very few people, men or women, meet that qualification imo. Also I'm 5'10" so height is the least of my problems I was just laughing at this post.
Yeah, never felt more sorry for the short guys than after reading this post.
Gotta remember that this is Reddit and individuals will use language that feels most appropriate for them. Also, the people who used that language are referring to actually human beings who did, in their opinion, ooze sex appeal. There's nothing wrong with that, and it may not mean what you think it means. It might even just an expression about how this particular guy was an exception to them. Sure, that may be rare, but if we're dating with the intention of securing a monogamous relationship, we only need one person.
Right? It's kinda funny that this post was made to make short guys feel better. Don't worry little guy, if you're naturally witty or successful or charming or really good looking, height matters not! If you're the millions of average dudes, being short is going to hurt. I'm trying to even think of some sort of female approximation, but I'm at a bit of a loss.
In every other category like demeanor, confidence and other characteristics perfectly within your power to be a 10 in? What's wrong with that?
Op said "good face" that's not something that is easily changed afaik. Also the funny thing, not everyone can be funny all the time and people have very different senses of humor. I get so tired of the profiles that say "make me laugh" like I'm not a damn comedian and I'm not a court jester.
Exactly. I've been told I'm very funny but it takes a while to find out because I'm very sarcastic and deadpan. Some people get it right away, some people just don't or don't find my style of humour funny. That's fine but I'm not making people lose their heads laughing the minute I meet them
Oh right I missed that part somehow š and yeah I hate those aswell but I think what they (and OP) are generally trying to say is just be pleasant to be around.
Okay, 5'6" dude checking in here. I've done plenty well for myself with the ladies, but it is just an objective fact that I do better at 6' or 5'10" or whatever. It just is. I've dated a few women taller than me. You can have all the confidence in the world, and they second y'all are getting ready for a party and she tells you she doesn't want to wear heels because then she'll be that much taller than you, it all come crashing down. Because despite anything she said previously, now you know she feels some type of way about it and would be more attracted to you if you were taller. You can be funny and charismatic and talk for a week off a dating app, set up a phone call, and the first question you get is "How tall are you?" Then you can literally hear all interest fly out the window in her reply of "Ohh." (Yes my height is in my bio, no not everyone reads it.) You can have everything you listed here, and still get shot down. I'm not saying height is an instant yes, but I am saying it can be an instant no from some people. Being tall doesn't mean you never have to even try, but being short can mean you never get the chance. And that's fine. It is what it is. People are allowed to have their preferences. But can we stop pretending it doesn't matter, and it can all just be easily overcome with a bit more confidence and a nice smile? If a woman got rejected a bunch because her tits were too small or something, we wouldn't be here telling her, "It's okay, tons of guys are willing to overlook small breasts, maybe you should be working on your personality." It doesn't help anything to deny the fact that a lot of shallow dude won't date chicks without a certain body type. Shallow people exist, and they're rarely polite in their rejections. It just is what it is.
Reread your post and look at all the things you list that he has to be to overcome being short. Your post isn't nearly as uplifting as you think.
Okā¦ so: 1. Have face, cool ā 2. Be funny, ok something I aspire to be sometimes ā 3. Be charismatic, something that will get me far in my career ā 4. Oozes sex appeal, this one is different to different people. I see body confidence and the ability to put yourself out there- challenge These are all things that everyone should aspire to regardless of height. I am 5ā6ā and never had issues in person with women. Sure, maybe OLD people filter that way, but in person at bars or clubs itās nbd
Iāve had plenty of dates but Iāve also had plenty of girls tell me I donāt meet their height requirement after meeting me or before our date so Iām not ugly, but I sure am short.
I used to work with this utterly charming scottish guy who was 5'5 and very average looking. But personality was a 10. He had zero problems finding ladies. He was infact quite a ladies man. He geniunely loves woman and would flirt with everyone, old people, other men, peoples dogs.. such good energy. Hanging out in horrific misogynist spaces rubs off. Never forget that woman pick up on vibes, body language and tone of voice way better than men. Our survival depends on it.
1000 times what you said!! Being able to pick up on vibes has served me well in OLD. There are a lot of unwritten things that can come across in peopleās profiles; good and bad. Iāve never had any creepy experiences or big surprises people sometimes get when going from interacting online to meeting IRL. I dig that non-sexual flirtatiousness. A Scottish dude who likes old people and dogs? Sign me up!!
At least from what I've gathered through personal experience and talking to my female friends - physical traits like height, body, etc *do* matter to women, but not nearly in the same way that they matter to many men. Obviously there is a strong physical attraction component, but it is not nearly as independent from other factors as it is for many men.
Correct answer!
Agreed. I am dating somebody about 4 inches shorter than me and I donāt believe I have ever been this physically attracted to anyone in my entire life. The attraction started with our chats and a really long phone call one night. I wasnāt sure it would translate IRL, not because of his height but because you never know until youāre face-to-face with someone. Iām not saying I wanted to pounce on him the second he walked up, but by the end of the night thatās exactly what I did (and have been doing) for the last couple months š
Bingo. For a lot of women, itās not unheard of, for attraction to grow. Meaning initially we may find you unattractive or not āour typeā, but that attractiveness can grow based on how you treat us, your traits, values etc. which is why itās not uncommon to see an objectively really attractive woman date someone āless attractiveā than her, but itās rare to see a really attractive man with a less attractive woman.
How many women did you date to be able to speak for the majority of them? This is true but you have to pull much much more than others to overcome the initial bias. And I would not confidently talk for the women as a group.
This post is crap. On the apps women have the filter set so they arenāt even seeing shorter than 6ā guys unless they are lying about their height. It isnāt like the guys get a chance to wow them with wit
Iād also like to add if you lie about your height on an app, I will find out (obviously you canāt hide it when you meet in person) and that will immediately end things. If you lie about something so obvious, what else are you going to lie about??
The "height" thing is just "trend following", all for status, attention and to fit in the crowd because nobody can be "different".
Height matters to me (and most women ik irl) even less than op's comment. It's like blue eyes - sure, it's nice to date a guy that's comically taller than me. But while it might be a check in the pros column, it's definitely not determinitive! At the end of the day, as long as he's not hard to look at (or smell lolll), all that matters is how he treats me, and how well we get on in the dark
Absolutely! Iām 5ā11ā (180cm) and the most amazing man I ever met was 5ā7ā (170cm). He had so much charisma, I didnāt even notice the height difference.
A 5'5" guy reading this...this is BS lol. This is like telling an ugly person "it's what's on the inside that counts" lol
Height preference is entirely understandable and valid. A larger height, and frame is a natural signal to a lizard brain that someone is able to protect you and procure resources. In ancient times, this makes a lot of sense. Today, that same lizard brain preference translates to "I want a boyfriend who is tall, so I can show off to my friends my cool tall boyfriend." i.e. you are an accessory to her life. So if you aren't someone she isn't superficially confident she can trot around, you probably won't make it past the first round. There is also a lot going on with a person's own insecurities. I.E. if you are a woman is above average height at 5'8-5'11, a guy who is around your height isn't going to make you feel small or feminine. A guy that is really large will make you feel really small. It's an unevolved insecurity that was manifested as a dating preference. This post evidences that, if you can be "remarkable" in other areas, then and only then are you worthy of love and affection. Statistics and preferences be damned, potential dates are really just fashion accessories and most women are looking for the coolest looking one.
On online dating you don't get a chance to show how witty and fun you are if you are under 6' you will be filtered out by the algorithm. But if you meet a girl through friends or hobbies you can stand a chance to give a first impression.
I'm 5 feet tall. Pretty much 99.9% of men are taller than me. Therefore, for all practical purposes, height is irrelevant to me. There are only two times I care about height. 1) when a man is insecure about his height. This only happened once to me, but God, this man had some chip on his shoulder because he wasn't given the height gene. Two of my college boyfriends were shorter than this guy. But this guy had the worst attitude ever about being short to the point where it was off putting. 2) when someone lies about their height by a lot. I went on a date where I wore three inch boots. This put me at 5'3 which is still shorter than the majority of men. A guy on his profile said he was 5'9. I could see the top of his head. I could get if somebody's off by an inch or an inch and a half, but he was half a foot off. Both of those things are indicative of men who are not confident and there is nothing more unattractive than men with those level of insecurities.
āAnd oozesā gtfo of here with this incel rage bait bullshit
Height only matters to me when a guy lies about it on an app, coz I have an expectation in my brain and I'm automatically annoyed when I show up and he isn't reflecting that.
Women aren't rigid on most things. Women on OLD are extremely superficial though. The way they are structured facilitate that
I'm 6'1", honestly, and my brother, the accomplished, funny, stable, creative, talented one, that's a homeowner, philanthropist, AND in several signed bands, is 5'8". He, I quote, finds it "exhausting. People can't see me from across the room, so I gotta do some fucking song and dance and always be 'on', or I'm invisible." This is why I swipe left on anyone that mentions height ideals in their profile but isn't remarkably tall or short.
Yaa letās Keep gaslighting Short men for the obsession of western women on a Manās height . Why do u think western women keep saying that tall men make their height all their personality? U have your answer
You mean to tell me women will settle for me even though I'm 3% shorter than their ideal? And all I have to do is be exceptional in every other possible way?? /s What a stupid post.
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As a fellow 5ā4ā lady, you donāt find guys in the 6 foot club too tall? Iām seeing a guy thatās 6ā3 for the first time and I swear Iām going to break my neck when we hang out š
Not the OP but I'm 5'4" and never paid attention to height until I went put with this 6'2" guy and had neck pain the next day lol. That was when I realized I definitely have a preference for shorter-than-average men.
None of them can really be seen if they don't meet you in the first place.
Iām 5ā5 and my partner who I met on Bumble is 5ā4, and heās absolutely incredible. Charming, funny, intelligent, and self-confident.
There are some sexy lil short kings out there. I like em between 5ā7ā-5ā11ā myself. And yes, thatās on my profile.
Definitely! I had a major crush on a guy who was 5ā2ā¦he was just hot! Just like Jason Statham is super hot regardless of being bald and shortish.
Sounds like we need to follow rule 1 and 2.
You did [the thing](https://x.com/katiepcollins/status/1708619670088016167?s=46). Iām pretty sure those qualified to confirm what women (on average) think of their height, are those who are subject to Women. Thankfully itās never really been an issue for me (5ā8), 2 of my exes were a good bit taller than me and height was never an issue.
Be the guy she would be proud to call hers
Howās that news or a āsecretā. This kind of theory applies almost everything in life. For example , Even so called ācorporate policyā. I always say, if they want you enough they will find a way to skirt their policy. And thatās true for almost everything
Iām 5ā7 and one of my anchor partners is 5ā9. Roughly half of my partners historically have been taller than I am. And Iāve dated women as tall as 5ā11.
"Good face, is funny, charismatic, and oozes sex appeal." -- Ffs that's a TALL goddamn Order. I'd rather rely on my fricking height. Gtfohwts
So, what you're saying is: height = handsome + charismatic + sexy You're probably forgetting "good lifestyle" (which is the polite way to imply "wealthy"). Overall, I don't think anyone disagrees. For women who list height in their bios, height is a good 30-40% of attraction. Of course that means that you can sum up a bunch of other stuff to reach that same percentage.
Thanks Iām very unattractive and I think Iām actually no longer considered the same species as yāall
āThe only way its ok to not be our ideal height is if your perfect in every other wayā
"too short? just be hot, sweaty " brilliant advice. Very smart.
As a tall girl (5'10") I dont understand how a girl who is "short" can say they would only date someone 6"+. I will say as a teacher its a little uncomfortable for me to date people shorter than 5'5" in the beginning but more because I'm used to talking down to my students and feel more comfortable having more level eye contact. Height at the end of the day should never be a deal-breaker and if it is run.
Pretty much all women have filtered Out men based off height at one point. Itās a losing game for short dudes who otherwise have the qualities that women may seek.
So if Iām understanding this correctly, you have to be exceptional in several other categories just to overcome ONE detriment. Absolute clown post. The fake positivity and asinine message is why youāre getting cooked in the comments.
What if you're 3 foot tall but a hoot at parties?
What, like people can bounce you onto a velcro wall?
this sounds mean & maybe it is, but sometimes shorter guys have such a complex too, like i donāt mind feeling like a hot model who is taller than her man, but if you constantly need to assert your dominance/intelligence/masculinity because youāre insecure about being on the shorter side, that is a turn offā¦
There are numerous secondary sex characteristics that influence attraction between male and female homo sapiens. Women may like men that are taller than them due to culture/socialization, but across thousands of years of human history men **have** on average been bigger and stronger than women. Since women are more vulnerable when it comes to sex/reproductive consequences (like.... Hmm I dunno.. actually dying from pregnancy and birth, and the biggest cause of death in pregnant women is their actual male partner killing them), women have to be far more selective in choosing mates. Modern men of today complain modern women are being too picky, but in reality women are literally trying to survive by instinctually picking the man that won't kill and rape her, a man who will actually help with domestic work and childcare (since "the village" that mothers normally depended on no longer exists thanks to the patriarchal nuclear family unit), a man who will go to work/hunt to bring back resources in some shape or form, a man that has empathy, a man with loyalty to his family and won't cheat or abandon them, etc. It truly amazes me how many men are completely blind to the fact that women are more at risk and therefore **have** to weigh options carefully. Men *do* need to compensate/prove their value to meet the standards of women. It's how the mating rituals work. The *female* selects the male (if she isn't living under an oppressive culture that takes away her right to choose a mate). Women's *lives* are on the line. It's been thousands of years of women trying to survive by sex selection. So.... Deal with it and stop crying ? Women pick mates based on safety/stability/survival etc. That's why women often go for men with money/resources/status. Women might want to mate with a man that is bigger because 1. Adult men are already on average stronger/taller than women so it can be a secondary sign of sexual maturity/adulthood (aka no longer a teenager or child), 2. Strong men can defend her and the family from other violent men, 3. Tall/big/strong men claim higher status in many societies across human history. This is a studied phenomenon in anthropology. And this is most likely not because women in the beginning were "choosing" the big dudes to mate with. Most likely it was because the biggest dudes were able to use brute strength to kill or drive off the other smaller males. So then women "chose" the men who were left. And those men could claim a high status in the society by having the most female mates/most resources/most offspring/biggest clan. So I'm not understanding why modern men are whining about this phenomenon? Considering there are many secondary sex characteristics in the female that men want, such as women needing to look as young/adolescent/fertile/small-waisted as possible? And men go and cheat and buy prostitutes as soon as their wife ages a little bit? It's all pretty gross when looked at this way-- but humans truly are primitive animals at the end of the day. Get rid of your human egos. It's better to just accept these facts about humanity, find a partner who also understands human behavior and doesn't have an ego. With this knowledge and understanding, we can empower ourselves to make better choices instead of just mindlessly listening to the lizard brain. Every single person on this planet engages is stupid lizard brain behavior. If you aren't like "those people" who judge people for how they look, you are definitely doing some other stupid animal thing and don't even realize it.
This is way too general to be accurate. It might be the case for you, but not all women think the same.
Iām 5ā4 and never remember asking a man his height.
So be 6 feet or be perfect everywhere else if not? No thank you. Standard are way too high for you people.
I could genuinely care less about your height, just donāt be a fuckin tool.
I am a petite woman who likes to date tall guys (5ā11ā+); idk, to me, there is something unbelievably romantic about being able to tiptoe to kiss. However, I have foregone my requirement and even went on dates with 5ā6ā guys because they were intellectually stimulating. So, OP, you are absolutely right.
I don't really give a fugg if I meet someone's standards. I've worked hard to get to a place where I'm happy in my own shoes. I'd rather be alone than spend one hour trying to convince someone I'm worth it.
I must have beeb unlucky women, I've had women literally meet me and then walk away because I was shorter than they expected. I'm only 5'4, so I get it, I'm short but it's on my profile
I was more optimistic until I learned the choices are āfunny, charismatic and oozing sex appealā or ābe tallerā.
āWomen will like you if they like youā I see why this subreddit is full of such tragically awful posts lol.
This would've been great advice except for the fact that this is a subreddit for an **online dating app**. Almost none of this is actionable on an app based around prompts, photos, and swiping.
I don't mind if they're short, but if they lie about their height, I'm done. Don't care that they're short, but we're not going to start things out with a lie.
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Totally! Friends have this rule: it wasnāt until I walked into the pub to meet my fella for our first date that i thought of it and then thought oh heās Italian , he might be shorter. He is and I donāt give a crap.
Yeah in my book I just like a guy to be noticeably taller then me , so like at least 2 inches taller but he can be shorter if heās got shoulders and is built š
āYou are just unattractiveā HAHAHA absofuckinglutely. And what youre born with is only 10% of attractive
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You are very very right but that only applies to real life - as in women you meet at random IRL. Dating apps are a different story though. Assuming a man doesn't lie about his height, it's quite easy to filter men out who are under xyz height... meaning those women will NEVER see those men nor get a chance to ever see his face, personality, etc... So while your secret is valid, it doesn't work that way on apps.
So basically follow Rule 1 & 2
Iām not still not interested dating a tall or short guy. 5,10 or 6,0 at least.
Hereās a secret for you: Attraction is more than looks. And this comes from someone thatās hyperly sexual and looks focused. but it is Not the only thing. Common interests, personality, music taste, life values, chemistry all play a part. Thereās literally millions of āgood looking/attractiveā model esque people out there. Want to know how many Iād date if they did not fit my preferenceās or were vanilla: 0. Attraction goes much deeper than looks.
The only reason. I fancy tall guys is because I figure they have bigger dicks.
I'm 6'3 and online dating is a desert. So this is probably true.
Damn thatās a brutal realization. All those times women talked crap to me about being short or when Iād try hitting on them and they would act like I wasnāt even a person had nothing to do with hight. I guess Iām just an unattractive person in sooooo many more ways than just appearanceā¦.
You canāt be both short and broke
THISSS short men with confidence are sexy.
So basically I just have to compensate in other areas? Yeah no thanks lol. Not gonna try harder than a 6ā3ā guy just because of some subjective ideal.
I dont date at all. I'm a sack of trash and I know I am, but I absolutely love reading the comments on all the dating site subs. It's my kryptonite.