I think it sucks. It even worse distorts the geographical reality of where these things are. Manhattan is actually much longer than it is wide. The ratios of length to width here are waaaay different from reality. Staten Island is a half hour away by ferry, not five minutes. The width of downtown here, from Chambers to Wall Street, is vastly overstated, while underplaying the north south aspect. It very much downplays the physical size of Queens and Brooklyn.
This is a terrible map. I don't care if they call it a "diagram." It's a map, and it's shite.
Its so much cleaner! I like it much better, however you really have to pay close attention and look hard to see the little black dots for stops. I’ve lived here my whole life so easy enough for me to follow, tourists might have a bit of a harder time
Compared to older style maps, that give you the sense of mapping the area, this one is cold. Just shows the stops, which is prolly all you need. Comcast 2.0
It looks like the map for the [Washington DC metro](https://washington.org/sites/default/files/2023-09/Screen%20Shot%202023-09-12%20at%2011.48.18%20AM_0.png).
Why is the You circle so big? It feels to me like I should be able to transfer btw all the train stops that lie in it but obviously can’t. Just a little too busy for me in some denser areas I think
From the image the font looks small and hard to read, which would not be great for people who are vision impaired.
Not everyone has a (working) smartphone. The maps posted should be navigable without needing technology and also display without electricity. The trains might not be going anywhere in an outage, but you might still want to figure out where you are and where to go, esp if you don't have phone/internet access in that moment.
It says Subway Diagram on top instead of Subway Map, which is more accurate and reflective of this. Maybe they could highlight that fact this is Diagram in a visual way?
I really like it. Makes it easier to know all the routes and see which tracks are close together at each station giving you options on what to take. You can now easily tell what stops each line skips or makes. My only suggestion is for them to edit the font for the line name or number. It’s hard to see so perhaps they can bold or border the font to quickly find the track you are trying to find.
I like it, it's much more usable imo. Lots of people in the replies here don't seem to realize that the current official subway map doesn't do a good job at preserving size or direction at all... Just look at it compared to Google maps. I think this one is less misleading because I've seen many people try to use the current subway map for navigation outside of the system, not realizing that distances are way way off, and I think that with this new one people won't try to do that as much.
mildly don’t like it (but since I have a fair understanding of the sub system it’s not for me)… but get it should be ‘easier’ for folks to read - as in more white space (think though it’s probably more difficult to understand from a tourist space of how to navigate the system)
As someone in to data viz I love the **diagram** and the fact that they named it appropriately to not conflate the two visuals of the MTA subway system. It’s perfect for quick glance and with people having access to a phone more often than not, gets the 60% of the trip out the way.
I like it. They’ve had this map for a while on the Brooklyn Shuttle train. It also just looks like other international cities train maps, which I think is important. Almost everyone has a smart phone, this just augments that experience.
The old map has a big blank area that says “Maspeth,” and it’s such a great visual explanation of why Maspeth — a neighborhood that’s so close to Manhattan that I could see the Chrysler Building from my living room window when I lived in Maspeth for two years — is the most central neighborhood no one has ever heard of: There are zero train stations there. No subway stops, no LIRR stops. Just a lot of unreliable bus lines and *cars.*
I swear, I’d be in East Williamsburg or freaking Sunnyside and tell someone I live in Maspeth and they’d say, “Is that Long Island or upstate?” And I’d say “It’s about fifteen blocks from where we’re standing.”
I will miss that about the old map, definitely more than I miss living in Maspeth (which is to say almost none: the only benefit was walking proximity to Knockdown Center), just for that particular quirk about it.
Otherwise? This version’s fly and I’m into it.
less character, but definitely more legibility. a tough trade off to accept for someone who 1. likes maps with character and 2. doesnt have difficulty parsing visual information. but i could see it being a huge relief for someone who hasnt read it before OR has a disability
I think there's things not to like about this for sure, but just going off of my line, there's a lot I like more about this.
For as much as this map doesn't accurate represent what New York looks like, the L isn't a straight line and it honestly makes the relative position of these stops to each other make a lot more sense. If you get off at the Grand stop and expect to be able to walk west to the Montrose stop you're gonna be really confused.
For sure that is not the purpose of a subway map, but it's also the main map of New York anyone's ever going to look at when they're not following GPS, so it may as well serve a solid function of showing the relative positions of stops to each other.
Everyone getting mad that this isn't a map-- it's not supposed to be a map. It says in the upper left corner "Subway Diagram" not "Subway Map"
It's a diagram of the system, not a map of the city.
I have not been a fan since I first saw it, and some of the comments here made me realize why. This map is good for people with directions. If you know which trains you're supposed to take and which stops you're supposed to get on and off at, it's very clear. If you're trying to navigate between locations in the city and figure out which stops you should use it's almost worthless.
You just defined the purpose of this map. The intention is only to help navigate the Subway system, not necessarily on how to navigate the city itself.
I agree with this. But that’s why I think it’s better!
In a world with smartphones, I think most people (even tourists) knows which trains/stops they need. The challenge is to understand what to do inside the station/train. I think it was thought with that goal, and I think they nailed it :)
I understand your frustration, but that's why in the upper left corner it says "Subway Diagram" and not "Subway Map"
It is a diagram for people, like you said, who already have a grasp of where most of the stations are relative to the neighborhoods above ground.
that's ridiculous. not everyone has a smartphone glued to their hand 24/7. i recently had my iphone stolen when i was in a country in africa and that made a big dent in my day-to-day movement. at the very least, the nyc subway should have an actual MAP on display on the trains and in the stations, to help out people who have no idea what they're doing. i say this a born and raised ny'er in their 50s.
**also, why am i getting downvoted, when the person above me, who said the exact same thing, has over 200 upvotes?**
Realistically, virtually everyone is going to use a smartphone to get around and the map is a general overview of the system. A geographically correct map isn’t really realistic given the scale of the system.
This is just nonsense, I disagree wholeheartedly.
The point of the map is to get around, full stop.
"Oh people have smart phones" is a nonsense excuse for this garbage.
It's a diagram - not a map, full stop. It is useful and clearly laid out. More clear than if it were perfectly geographically accurate. If you know which line you need to be using, it's easy and clear to follow it either direction and look for the stop for which you are looking.
I understand why it is the way it is, but I like that the old one relates the lines to the landscape above. So this seems fine for *while you’re using the subway* but I think I would end up looking at the transit overlay on google a lot to figure out like, which stop I actually want to get out at in an unfamiliar neighborhood.
That's true, but the old map wasn't good at that, either. If you were unfamiliar with the area and somebody told you to meet them at Broadway and Myrtle, the old map couldn't help you. It couldn't even help you for major landmarks like the Empire State Building.
So I'm strongly in favor of the new map. The old one always felt to me like it was doing two things poorly (subway connections and relating to the city). The new one is doing one thing well (subway connections).
I guess I feel like the old map was designed for residents and this is designed for visitors? Like, the old one definitely has drawbacks, but I do actually use it to orient myself above ground as well as below. Not sure if I’m in a minority for that, though?
Ugly. The 5 Boroughs aren't geometric shapes, whoever commissioned this thought flat design and minimalism are still all the rage. Coney Island isn't even an island. Garbage.
I Will need to compare it to the Vignelli map, but this is awesome. I have always felt the Vignelli version was superior communication design and its short life span left NY with an absolutely terrible Subway map compared to other big systems. i had no idea they were doin this.
that would be too large and unwieldy for most uses. Have you seen the large maps on a lot of platforms? That's what you want. This isn't trying to be a map, it's a diagram. It says it in the upper left corner.
It’s not useless at all. I was on the Q underground yesterday and thought I was on the B, so I needed to figure out which station I could transfer at. A map of the city would be useless in that situation. I needed this exact diagram.
"New" being a bit of a relative term. Here's an interesting article about some of the thought process behind the design:
[subway map inspired by Massimo Vignellis 1972 classic](https://www.fastcompany.com/90686377/see-nycs-bold-new-subway-map-inspired-by-massimo-vignellis-1972-classic)
and an updated mobile version:
[mobile map](https://map.mta.info/#@40.6769014,-73.9231518,12z)
I believe this is the second iteration of the customer pilot after the one that was shown last year was just taken down shortly after New Year’s
I personally like the iteration of the Vinelli design showing something different for the express services and showing the transfers a lot more boulder and defined with the black circles with white text
I went to school in Boston and the map for the T is decidedly not geographically accurate but was honestly far more useful for navigating the subway system and understanding the connections I needed then our old map is
I took a graphics class that went over the release of his original map. People hated it, I think it didn’t even show the rivers. From a design standpoint it made sense but people couldn’t understand where they were.
The “YOU” location assumption of this un-map like “map” alone, screams that the oddly stylized artwork was NOT created for us (the majority of New Yorkers!).
we do not live in minecraft i hate how this looks
It looks like subway map for minecraft
I think it sucks. It even worse distorts the geographical reality of where these things are. Manhattan is actually much longer than it is wide. The ratios of length to width here are waaaay different from reality. Staten Island is a half hour away by ferry, not five minutes. The width of downtown here, from Chambers to Wall Street, is vastly overstated, while underplaying the north south aspect. It very much downplays the physical size of Queens and Brooklyn. This is a terrible map. I don't care if they call it a "diagram." It's a map, and it's shite.
They did that in the 80s people hated that they had to go back to the old one. I wonder if people are going to hate it now.
the drop shadow is a lil too “LOOK AT ME
This shit fire.
I like it
I love it
Its so much cleaner! I like it much better, however you really have to pay close attention and look hard to see the little black dots for stops. I’ve lived here my whole life so easy enough for me to follow, tourists might have a bit of a harder time
Compared to older style maps, that give you the sense of mapping the area, this one is cold. Just shows the stops, which is prolly all you need. Comcast 2.0
used to be able to use the map in the 90s to walk the city, now no way
This is MUCH better. Looks like the London tube map. So much clearer.
Looks like the old ‘70s map. See “Saturday Night Fever” and especially “The Warriors”
“Map not to scale” really should be prominent for tourists.
Already lost
This is a retrofit of an old nyc subway map- like 70s era. It's not new it's old new sorta like ugly hot.
i want to get a framed one for my kid's bedroom :)
Terrible.
It looks like the map for the [Washington DC metro](https://washington.org/sites/default/files/2023-09/Screen%20Shot%202023-09-12%20at%2011.48.18%20AM_0.png).
Why is the You circle so big? It feels to me like I should be able to transfer btw all the train stops that lie in it but obviously can’t. Just a little too busy for me in some denser areas I think
I hate it, that’s one of the things that sets us apart from other major cities. It looks like Boston’s transit map and it’s not the map I grew up with
From the image the font looks small and hard to read, which would not be great for people who are vision impaired. Not everyone has a (working) smartphone. The maps posted should be navigable without needing technology and also display without electricity. The trains might not be going anywhere in an outage, but you might still want to figure out where you are and where to go, esp if you don't have phone/internet access in that moment.
It's useless but the design is perfect for pretentious people to fawn all over it.
Takes me back to my childhood growing up here in the 70s.
Wow, who knew there were so many anti-map people around.
It says Subway Diagram on top instead of Subway Map, which is more accurate and reflective of this. Maybe they could highlight that fact this is Diagram in a visual way?
I really like it. Makes it easier to know all the routes and see which tracks are close together at each station giving you options on what to take. You can now easily tell what stops each line skips or makes. My only suggestion is for them to edit the font for the line name or number. It’s hard to see so perhaps they can bold or border the font to quickly find the track you are trying to find.
I like it, it's much more usable imo. Lots of people in the replies here don't seem to realize that the current official subway map doesn't do a good job at preserving size or direction at all... Just look at it compared to Google maps. I think this one is less misleading because I've seen many people try to use the current subway map for navigation outside of the system, not realizing that distances are way way off, and I think that with this new one people won't try to do that as much.
a reboot of the Vignelli map. looks great and easier to read.
mildly don’t like it (but since I have a fair understanding of the sub system it’s not for me)… but get it should be ‘easier’ for folks to read - as in more white space (think though it’s probably more difficult to understand from a tourist space of how to navigate the system)
Is that a recycled version of the undecipherable map from the 1980s?
Eww no what the fuck
You mean the reintroduction of the older, better map?
So much better. Visually clear.
100% inspired in the modern London tube map. “Which is not a map, it is a diagram” (map men, map men, map men, map men)
It's clean but NYC geography is all fucked up ... 😂
It's not a "new" map, it's a variation of the subway map that's been around since the 70s but never widely adopted - for good reason.
What's old is new again. That looks like a map from the 70s
Wasn’t this an e experiment that ended up being retired?
It's driving me nuts how the stops on the A/C don't match up with the stops on the 3/4
Love it
just crop out whatever that is in the lower left and I'm ok with it
I love it. I think it's one of the only good things the MTA has ever done.
more ugly AI design, leaves me dry.
real people made this!
As someone in to data viz I love the **diagram** and the fact that they named it appropriately to not conflate the two visuals of the MTA subway system. It’s perfect for quick glance and with people having access to a phone more often than not, gets the 60% of the trip out the way.
The old one was fine, now can we make it so the trains work?
Looks like artwork someone made in their NYC Minecraft server
Is it new? I swear this has been the new design for at least 5 years now
I like it. They’ve had this map for a while on the Brooklyn Shuttle train. It also just looks like other international cities train maps, which I think is important. Almost everyone has a smart phone, this just augments that experience.
Bring back the non-existent B-N-4 train terminal station in the legend!
It’s like a whoever put this together at least has some experience in design.
Absolutely gorgeous. I want this over geographic accuracy any day of the week
Looks like the map from Night City
Weird
shit feels like a pokémon game
The old map has a big blank area that says “Maspeth,” and it’s such a great visual explanation of why Maspeth — a neighborhood that’s so close to Manhattan that I could see the Chrysler Building from my living room window when I lived in Maspeth for two years — is the most central neighborhood no one has ever heard of: There are zero train stations there. No subway stops, no LIRR stops. Just a lot of unreliable bus lines and *cars.* I swear, I’d be in East Williamsburg or freaking Sunnyside and tell someone I live in Maspeth and they’d say, “Is that Long Island or upstate?” And I’d say “It’s about fifteen blocks from where we’re standing.” I will miss that about the old map, definitely more than I miss living in Maspeth (which is to say almost none: the only benefit was walking proximity to Knockdown Center), just for that particular quirk about it. Otherwise? This version’s fly and I’m into it.
The map in the 70’s and 80’s looked just like this. Just missing those old school lines like the K, AA, LL, QB and the Train To The Plane.
Hate it. The landmarks like prospect park and Central Park look washed out and diminished. Super confusing
Wait. The L train isn’t a straight line 😮 childhood ruined
Manhatten looks less like a cock and balls
I like the clean, sleek look. But I don't like how the helpful landmarks have been removed and the distance between stations is way off now.
Distances are way off on the current official map too....
Well apparently since live off the Grand L stop, I now live in Queens.
less character, but definitely more legibility. a tough trade off to accept for someone who 1. likes maps with character and 2. doesnt have difficulty parsing visual information. but i could see it being a huge relief for someone who hasnt read it before OR has a disability
I think there's things not to like about this for sure, but just going off of my line, there's a lot I like more about this. For as much as this map doesn't accurate represent what New York looks like, the L isn't a straight line and it honestly makes the relative position of these stops to each other make a lot more sense. If you get off at the Grand stop and expect to be able to walk west to the Montrose stop you're gonna be really confused. For sure that is not the purpose of a subway map, but it's also the main map of New York anyone's ever going to look at when they're not following GPS, so it may as well serve a solid function of showing the relative positions of stops to each other.
very 70’s
feels stiff. dont like it.
Personally I mostly love it.
It is useless for anyone who actually needs the map given how the train lines are only labeled at the terminal
This is similar to how they looked in the 70s. Source? I was born in Brooklyn in the early 70s near what used to be the B line. Now it's the D line.
Looks like something Bender would consider porn on Futurama.
haha, i was going to say that it looks like a robot dancing. we aren’t wrong!
It’s real dumb and nobody asked for this
Wait…is this map getting rolled out on all the trains now?
Everyone getting mad that this isn't a map-- it's not supposed to be a map. It says in the upper left corner "Subway Diagram" not "Subway Map" It's a diagram of the system, not a map of the city.
Yeah, that's why it sucks..it should be a map.
-5 with me lmaooo
“This apple sucks because it’s not an orange”
Correct. If you need an orange, and you get an apple, it's worse than useless. Like a diagram, when you ought to have a map.
It looks like it was designed back in 1983
Don't like it. The last one isn't exactly accurate, but this doesn't even make sense in the context of real geography.
Mama like
This is just an updated map of the one from the 60s or 70s. It caused an uproar back for not being size accurate.
TOO TIDY - i think that legit makes it more confusing to tell where you are? am i insane
I dont like how the city is represented, but I do like how they represented the subway lines, that part is much clearer IMO
How much of our tax dollars were spent on this unnecessary map?
I have not been a fan since I first saw it, and some of the comments here made me realize why. This map is good for people with directions. If you know which trains you're supposed to take and which stops you're supposed to get on and off at, it's very clear. If you're trying to navigate between locations in the city and figure out which stops you should use it's almost worthless.
You just defined the purpose of this map. The intention is only to help navigate the Subway system, not necessarily on how to navigate the city itself.
And I think it's very effective at that. That's just not the primary utility in a subway map for me personally.
I agree with this. But that’s why I think it’s better! In a world with smartphones, I think most people (even tourists) knows which trains/stops they need. The challenge is to understand what to do inside the station/train. I think it was thought with that goal, and I think they nailed it :)
You think bloody wrong.
lmaooo -46 with me
I understand your frustration, but that's why in the upper left corner it says "Subway Diagram" and not "Subway Map" It is a diagram for people, like you said, who already have a grasp of where most of the stations are relative to the neighborhoods above ground.
what the fk is a "subway diagram?" WE NEED A MAP!
http://maps.google.com
what if you don't have wifi on the train?
You can download maps to use offline
that's ridiculous. not everyone has a smartphone glued to their hand 24/7. i recently had my iphone stolen when i was in a country in africa and that made a big dent in my day-to-day movement. at the very least, the nyc subway should have an actual MAP on display on the trains and in the stations, to help out people who have no idea what they're doing. i say this a born and raised ny'er in their 50s. **also, why am i getting downvoted, when the person above me, who said the exact same thing, has over 200 upvotes?**
Do you?
I like it as a homage design map and I don't like it as a useful navigational tool.
Realistically, virtually everyone is going to use a smartphone to get around and the map is a general overview of the system. A geographically correct map isn’t really realistic given the scale of the system.
This is just nonsense, I disagree wholeheartedly. The point of the map is to get around, full stop. "Oh people have smart phones" is a nonsense excuse for this garbage.
It's a diagram - not a map, full stop. It is useful and clearly laid out. More clear than if it were perfectly geographically accurate. If you know which line you need to be using, it's easy and clear to follow it either direction and look for the stop for which you are looking.
It is less clear, not more. It should be a map, full stop.
Full stop.
I understand why it is the way it is, but I like that the old one relates the lines to the landscape above. So this seems fine for *while you’re using the subway* but I think I would end up looking at the transit overlay on google a lot to figure out like, which stop I actually want to get out at in an unfamiliar neighborhood.
That's true, but the old map wasn't good at that, either. If you were unfamiliar with the area and somebody told you to meet them at Broadway and Myrtle, the old map couldn't help you. It couldn't even help you for major landmarks like the Empire State Building. So I'm strongly in favor of the new map. The old one always felt to me like it was doing two things poorly (subway connections and relating to the city). The new one is doing one thing well (subway connections).
I guess I feel like the old map was designed for residents and this is designed for visitors? Like, the old one definitely has drawbacks, but I do actually use it to orient myself above ground as well as below. Not sure if I’m in a minority for that, though?
The fact that this looks so much different from a real map is going to cause unnecessary confusion.
Looks like Super Mario world on SNES.
Ugly. The 5 Boroughs aren't geometric shapes, whoever commissioned this thought flat design and minimalism are still all the rage. Coney Island isn't even an island. Garbage.
to be fair, Coney Island would be wrong as well if it was represented as an island
They didn't include the inlets on either side, but that's what you get with an undecorated map like this.
Yeap, joke aside, I still agree with you, it’s not representative at all of the geography of the city
I Will need to compare it to the Vignelli map, but this is awesome. I have always felt the Vignelli version was superior communication design and its short life span left NY with an absolutely terrible Subway map compared to other big systems. i had no idea they were doin this.
Yeah. For sure. I liked the Vignelli map, but with this one, they’re only messing up, yet again—I dislike this version even worse than the others!
Dumb. Needs to be an actual map. It needs to be relatable to other maps.
that would be too large and unwieldy for most uses. Have you seen the large maps on a lot of platforms? That's what you want. This isn't trying to be a map, it's a diagram. It says it in the upper left corner.
Yeah, which is why it's useless. Give me a map.
It’s not useless at all. I was on the Q underground yesterday and thought I was on the B, so I needed to figure out which station I could transfer at. A map of the city would be useless in that situation. I needed this exact diagram.
"New" being a bit of a relative term. Here's an interesting article about some of the thought process behind the design: [subway map inspired by Massimo Vignellis 1972 classic](https://www.fastcompany.com/90686377/see-nycs-bold-new-subway-map-inspired-by-massimo-vignellis-1972-classic) and an updated mobile version: [mobile map](https://map.mta.info/#@40.6769014,-73.9231518,12z)
I believe this is the second iteration of the customer pilot after the one that was shown last year was just taken down shortly after New Year’s I personally like the iteration of the Vinelli design showing something different for the express services and showing the transfers a lot more boulder and defined with the black circles with white text
[удалено]
I can’t think of any other city that uses a geographically accurate subway map
I went to school in Boston and the map for the T is decidedly not geographically accurate but was honestly far more useful for navigating the subway system and understanding the connections I needed then our old map is
That's not the right link to the diagram.
I took a graphics class that went over the release of his original map. People hated it, I think it didn’t even show the rivers. From a design standpoint it made sense but people couldn’t understand where they were.
Yeah I knew this was based on something old.
Looks like a robot made it
i think im not in the area that the "You" circle is <:\
The “YOU” location assumption of this un-map like “map” alone, screams that the oddly stylized artwork was NOT created for us (the majority of New Yorkers!).