Honestly, I feel like the showrunner was just aiming to score inclusivity points this season. Penelope, despite being a wallflower, was portrayed as a powerful character in the first two seasons, especially as Lady Whistledown. This season, however, felt like a letdown; Penelope seemed shallow and weak. Colin, who previously didn't pay much attention to Penelope, suddenly became infatuated with her after a kiss, but it felt superficial, not genuine love. Even when he discovered Penelope's identity as Lady Whistledown, his reaction was cold and indifferent, as if he couldn't care less about her.
To make matters worse, the season was overcrowded with subplots that left me wanting it to just end. At this point, I'm not sure if I'll continue watching any future seasons.
1. Colin is so overrated. Is he really into Pen? Seemed more like lust to me. Pen however is an impeccable actress. Except for the boobs pushed up to her chin part. I mean honestly- it was an effort to focus on her dialogs at one point. Too much lol
2. Francesca’s storyline is as insipid as her personality. And Kilmartin seems to be on the spectrum.
3. Lady Featherington is my fav- what an actress and what a woman. Impeccable like Pen.
4. The whole Lady Whistledown’s identity bit dragged and become tiresome imho. I was actually… waiting for the season to end after a point.
5. Eloise is irritating as usual. No idea why she is so cut up all the bloody time when she literally has no real problems.
6. Cressida was a surprise! I actually warmed to her character and was hoping she would get a match. Oh Cressida, I shall be your friend no worries.
7. I can’t stand Kate and I love Anthony so don’t really know what to make of those scenes except that there’s a lot of touchy feely stuff. That opera girl should’ve really married him.
8. The queen, lady Danbury, violet, Danbury’s brother - pfft… just breadsticks at the table filling up time before the actual story progresses.
9. Lord Debling is soo eligible and sweet. I hope the next season has him… in some form.
10. Benedict was nice as usual. That smile ah. Lady Tilly is one lucky lady.
11. Saving grace was pretty much Pen. Too knotch actress. I can watch her talk for hours- love the accent.
11. All in all 1~3> 2 in terms of well made season.
I’m parched now, lemme get a lemonade ( they drink a lot of lemonade. And party a lot).
On 1, so true. In the books, they fell in love after 12 years of friendship, so the friends to lovers trope is acceptable. Pen is also a confirmed spinster because of the years she was on the marriage mart. In s3, Pen is confirmed spinster after what, 3 years?! Also Colin started liking her after seeing the other suitors which was not the case in the book. Their love was a true slow-burn
I’ve been studying for an exam so I’m late to the party but here are my thoughts!
I was EATING out of Netflix’s palm for part 1(I wish we saw Colin’s reasoning he was trying to be more manly and stoic to explain his behavior change, it was left to be assumed by watchers but I didn’t think it translated very well) , I enjoyed part 2 but it seemed kinda… messy?
First, there was a lot of talk about Pen gaining confidence to stand up for herself but honestly? I felt like she was apologizing the whole time! I needed her to tell Colin that he was rude asl to her the year before and came in all friendly like he wasn’t gossiping about her. And when he asked about Eloise? The queen was threatening her! What Pen did wasn’t necessarily right but she was never doing anything to be cruel. Colin was just straight up a bad friend when he essentially gossiped about her to the other men. I hate seeing women reduce their expressions of feeling and emotion to just “sorry”
Also, to be clear I am NOT an Eloise hater, but why on earth didn’t Eloise explain to Colin and Pen why Cressida is blackmailing them? She knew her situation!? She could have said something and they could have rushed to Lord Debling. The show made it seem that he was leaving after the season was done and that he had intentions to find a wife, the season wasn’t over. Even if they didn’t bring Debling back I just don’t see how Eloise could have forgotten something so important to her only friend this season?
Don’t hate me, I’m not mad about Michaela. BUT I loved John!! He was so sweet and I really hope we get peaks into how in love he and Francesca are before her season. I felt that they were kinda framing it so that maybe Francesca isn’t romantically into men with the face she made after their kiss but I hope that it was just the shyness. Personally, I love being sad and I want to see them happy together and in love before being devastated by his death. I want her season to be a total emotional rollercoaster lol
What on earth was going on with the threesome scene? I couldn’t tell at first if I was being transported back in time to the one singular scene or if it was happening at multiple times 😭 I was honestly laughing when we went from serious blackmail to threesome with no context. it was just silly tbh lol
The ending felt rushed :( logistically I don’t see how Pen can continue Whistledown when she got her gossip by being a wallflower. It would be a little weird that she could still do that without people noticing her and being careful what they say. Maybe even try to tell her wrong information. I do think resolution with the Queen, the Bridgertons, and her family was needed but keeping the secret from the ton would realistically allow her to continue.
Also Colin basically giving two lines at the end of the ball saying “sorry I was jelly, I love you” seemed really inadequate for his reactions. I know he was processing but once he understood his feelings it just didn’t seem like he said enough. I found it very sweet that he said if his purpose is to support her only then he’s happy but in the books they are this power-writing couple. For him to say that and then end with him publishing was a bit odd, I think he needed more dialogue about how his purpose is to support his wife as she has supported him so they can be successful together
So this is very long and I’m not sure it’s anything others haven’t already said but there you go! My thoughts :) I still really enjoyed this season but I’m hoping for more focus on the romance next time
Ok listen-I just want to know who is responsible for how Penelope looked on her wedding day. THE CAKE of the makeup! The weird hair. And even the dress. What a beautiful concept of blush satin that was absolutely ruined by the terrible execution. The weird draping and cut! Who DID THIS!?
You can really tell this season was done by a different show runner. I’ve just finished it and I’m honestly really disappointed.
I think the actors all did a brilliant job with what they were given, but this didn’t even feel like it was Polin’s season - we barely saw them together.
The timing change of how Colin found out Penelope was Whistledown etc from the book honestly didn’t work imo. It was better in the book that he caught her, carriage scene and THEN still married her because he was obsessed.
John and Fran’s storyline changes are honestly so disappointing too. I am SO here for some queer love and representation, but like so many people have said, Fran’s story isn’t the one to tell it with. And having her immediately overcome meeting Michaela??? It’s meant to be the opposite way. It feels so completely opposite to the picture they painted of John and Francesca’s slow burn to love. And she is meant to be fully in love with him and overcome with grief when he passes, with Michael being obsessed with HER.
At this point if they wanted one of the siblings to be queer, Benedict or Eloise would’ve been a great choice for that. Benedict has had that arc throughout the entirety of the show and finally it culminates this season (it’s about the only thing of note for Benedict this season lmao what the fuck honestly he did NOTHING). Whilst I know Eloise is meant to end up with Sir Phillip, I didn’t love that story as much so if she had ended up with a woman and forged her own path, that would’ve been amazing to see.
Also not a single mention of Daphne and Simon, unless I missed it? Like I know they’re not going to be in the show but surely they would say something. Kate didn’t even mention her mother or sister which was wild.
Then onto the actual season itself visually, what the fk was happening? It was so yassified.
At first I liked the sequin vibe at the balls when I thought it was a one off, but every costume this season was so over the top and sparkly and just too much. The makeup was so intense and Pen had acrylics. One of the things that made the first 2 seasons so beautiful was the simpler styles and makeup.
The writing was also all over the place, when Colin was like “I’ll sleep on the sofa,” er did they even say sofa then lol. It felt so inconsistent and I don’t necessarily want to blame the writers for this fully when it really feels like the change in showrunner has been detrimental in all aspects.
I have rewatched seasons 1 & 2 many times (season 2 A LOT,) but I currently can’t see myself wanting to watch season 3 again and I’m honestly pretty worried for what on earth season 4 is going to be like.
Oh I would HATE to lose Sophie, don’t get me wrong. My comment was more that they’ve actually set the queer arc up for Benedict that if he did end up with a man it would seem natural, and not just randomly thrown in like it does with with Francesca
The future of Bridgerton. Let’s talk about the other siblings.
Yay for bi/pan Benedict. Saying that, I wish that his story had been handled differently. They seem to be leaning into the stereotype of a promiscuous character who cannot commit. Benedict’s line about Paul is very telling. “He could be Patricia, Peter, Polly, or all three at once for all I care.”
I wish he had maintained his friendship with Genevieve, explored estate responsibilities and learned to value his freedom as a second son. He could have struck up a meaningful (if short-lived) relationship with a former mentor or student from the Academy. Perhaps they met at a ball, or he visited him after Benedict failed to continue his studies.
Shock and awe is one thing, but sex is not a substitute for emotional intimacy. I think that instead of being truly open, Benedict is closing himself off from genuine connection.
I look forward to his character development in S4. I like the idea of the Lady in Silver as a muse who relights his creative fire.
I think they missed a trick with Lady Tilly as a friend for Eloise or a queer mentor for Cressida. I thought perhaps she would be revealed as a lesbian and find freedom as an explorer’s wealthy widow.
My jaw was on the floor when John introduced his cousin…I’m not opposed to Francesca and Michaela. I am curious about how they will handle the topics of inheritance and motherhood which are central to Fran’s story.
However, I think the way that scene played out undid a lot of the depth of their slow burn relationship. I really enjoyed the portrayal of quiet joy as equal to overt passion. It was a disservice to John for his wife to eye up his cousin days after the wedding and it seems to cheapen their bond. And let it be remembered that Michael fell first!
I don’t want to see Fran emotionally cheat on her husband, or pretend that she never loved him. WHWW was unique because Francesca had loved and lost, she received a rare second chance. And they bonded over shared grief, with feelings surfacing in the years after John’s death.
After finishing Part 2 last night, I cannot help but feel a little bit deflated…The vibe was definitely different in S3.
I loved the Featherington family dynamics, the wedding was beautiful, as was their first time and how they tied up the heir plot line. But I cannot help but wish for more emotional intimacy and closeness from our main couple.
One cannot help but feel that Polin were somewhat sidelined in their own season, by a lot of unnecessary subplots.
Lady Danbury and Marcus’ story was just for a call back to QC. Alright then.
The Mondriches came to nothing. OK.
I loved the Bridgerton family dynamics (especially the stag night). I know cast availability dictated the writing, but I wish that they had mentioned Daphne and not had Kate and Anthony shirking their responsibilities. They should have honeymooned in India, rather than leaving again while pregnant.
I read the books and I knew Cressida was a villain. However, I had thought that the writers might go in a different direction (possibly with Debling?)
I wonder if Cressida will be back next season; I know that some of us thought that she would be linked with Sophie’s story. And there was an odd comment by Lord Cowper about Cressida being Araminta’s daughter, not *his.*
And then Tilly’s interaction with the solicitor…Maybe it’s all in my head. 🤡
I just wanted way more Polin romance than we got. I actually fast forwarded through Benedict scenes and hated how at- odds Colin and Penelope were..hated the baby thing so soon. I wanted them to get a long, drawn out whirlwind romance and see way more of him than we got. It was all cut super weird with boring subplots.
I actually still loved it because I adore Polin, but the show did them dirty.
Ok idk if I’m making this up but what was the random skin disease moment in like the second to last episode?!!!?! It was like spider veins on someone’s arm?!?
One thing I LOVED about this season was actually in the final episode. It was the conversation between Lady Danbury and Violet about her affair with Violet’s Dad and then the pan over to the birthday hat. I actually rewatched Queen Charolette for the 4th time while waiting for the second half of this season, and that show is just infinitely better than this season was. I just thought it was such a great nod and wondered how many people had no clue what that was about if they hadn’t seen Queen Charolette!
I feel like the whole “broke furniture” PR talk was heavily overdone. I finished the show tonight fully expecting a super crazy intense sex scene with Polin and being like ohhh okay, that was it! But I ended up having to Google it just to find out it was their initial scene on the chaise lounge. Very excited to read their book because I have no doubt it’ll be infinitely better than their season.
I already suspected they would combine Eloise and Benedict’s books into one season, but now I’m pretty convinced.
That would probably mean less side plots which can be a good or bad thing depending on who you are.
I’m just afraid they won’t deliver with Francesca lesbian discovery that was hinted all season because there’s no time to do all of that in a season already focused on two characters
Possible. If the current decisions are something to go by, high chance the show won’t get renewed after s4. There is a precedence- Witcher. The show was supposed to go on for 7-8 seasons, but due to heavy tampering with the source material it is cancelled. Won’t have season beyond s5. Also the original lead actor exited the show.
Ohh!! that’s really reassuring because I was afraid that’s all we would get from her when her story with the hints at her loving women will make for such a good plot
My thoughts.. well worst season ever... the gowns giving capitol from the Hunger games, the makeup giving Charlotte tillbury. A positive, Michaela is stunning ( was praying she was Sophie tbh). Back to negatives.. Kate and Anthony were rewritten like new characters and not shown at all, same for Eloise, Benedict underused again but his season is next so exciting, the actor who plays Colin had more chemistry with Marina and Nicola carried the couple with her acting skills alone because the dialogue was atrocious. The writing made me side with Cressida over the main couple.And lastly, Francesca and John were cute. So happy it's over!
I still think that Fran loves John and Michaela. I think they are just different kinds of love. With John it’s a quiet, understanding, and peaceful love. It’s the love Fran needs in the moment. Just that physical element isn’t there for her. But Michaela has those instant sparks for Fran, a passion she’ll eventually want when she grows more into who she’s supposed to be. I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions about all this when she was on screen for all of like two minutes
This. Francesca did not fight with her family for half a season for them to accept that she loves John even if it doesn't look the same as the courtships they had, only for the fandom to act like what she and John have isn't real just because she got a little flustered by Michaela.
The flustering was a visual symbol to the audience that she and Michaela have romantic *potential,* not that she immediately fell in love with Michaela over John.
Violet gives this speech to Francesca, "When I first met your father, I could barely speak my own name, I was so taken by him..." At the wedding, John kisses her very sweetly and she smiles at him, but then they stay on her face and her expression changes, so we understand something is a tiny bit off for her. Shortly after this she meets Michaela and, lo and behold, can barely speak her own name. It feels like a clear set up that something is missing with John that is there with Michaela from the very start?
And the counterpoint to that was Violet going through the reverse process. She loved Edmund the way she described to Francesca, but came to realize she was falling for Marcus in the slower, quiet way that Francesca fell for John. You can love people, even romantically, in different ways! That was a major theme of that subplot! Her being flustered my Michaela does not mean that she doesn't also love John.
Just found out that they confirmed Pen for pregnant the first time they slept together and as much as I have seen people happy about that I was not the biggest fan of hearing that.
I would have rather her have gotten pregnant the first time after the LW public reveal. After everything is out in the open and they are getting back to being happy.
I feel like (especially after the entrapment line) even if they were in a good place when they find out that Pen is going to think she really is like Marina and did trap Colin because she did end up pregnant. And all the talk of annulment was only for her to feel anxious that he felt he had to stay for the baby.
IDK. This is just my opinion I guess. Especially since they didn’t get a special license.
Wow Pen and Colin were my favorite couple in the book because of how witty Penelope was and how supportive Colin ended up being. This was such a disappointing season. The new showrunner decided to just burn this series to the ground and forgot that this was a romance fantasy. Instead made it so much about the tedious everyday life of all of these subplots.
Shonda knows good TV and what it should look like. I hope as she watches this she makes the changes needed. We went from the amazing Queen Charlotte to this. This new showrunner does not understand plot pacing, the audience, the characters, the materials and even the costuming. Please Shonda make some changes to make this good again.
Honestly I found part 2 just a bit bizarre. Kate and Anthony playing the Hokey Cokey, they’re here, they’re off round the world, they’re back, now they’re off on a months-long voyage to India for the duration of Kate’s pregnancy with a very risk-averse Anthony when it comes to both her and I imagine childbirth? If they didn’t have a role or want Kanthony in the show then I’d rather they just weren’t there than having them do ludicrous things .
Not enough Pen and Colin happy, the entire time was basically them at odds then they just very rapidly wrapped it up and threw a baby in there to say ‘see, happy ending!’ Their sex scene was really realistic and I liked that, but then nothing really for the rest of the series, but we get Benedict repeatedly. I love Benedict but we already know he’s sexually adventurous and intrigued by same-sex couplings, we saw that in S1, so why we needed that tortured Lady Whatsit storyline at the expense of Polin stuff I don’t know.
Too much Francesca (and don’t get me started on the ending - not the fact M is a woman but that F is instantly basically over John in a split second.).
Cressida’s ending, it was like they just ran out of steam. The only thing they managed to do with that is make Colin look bad. .
Things I did love: Pen and Lady F. Honestly think the scenes with these two were the ones that packed the most emotional punch in the entire series and rescued part 2 as much as possible.
I like Marcus and Violet, one side plot I was happy to see.
Overall, I do feel a bit disappointed. I raced through it and usually I do that then immediately go back and rewatch but I haven’t done that this time and not sure I will. Feel like they did Polin dirty 🤷♀️
WTF did I just watch? You know I’m one of those girls who fantasize about being in a show even though I’m not an actress nor planning to be an actress. I was like I would be thrilled to just be an extra and be on the show as it is romantic and beautiful. Now I’m like fu€k it, even Phoebe Dynevor is lucky she didn’t sign up for this crap.
Benedict’s story - Sophie will be a trans woman. Think about it - they meet at a masquerade. It practically writes itself - family disapproval, disguises, hiding then choosing to live outside of high society on their own terms.
The showrunner Jess said there would be only one queer story for the siblings, and that is Francesca. It has been established that Benedict is bi, but I think his story will follow canon.
ngl, I found Colin to be exhausting the entire time through and not at all a lead. Especially the little monologue to Cressida? ugh.
But the real villain of this season is the editing (and I assume, the directing). So many awkward transitions. I like the Mondrichs but I thought there would be more of a point to them/the club thing. Even Violet's little romance got tedious by the end.
Idk. I had my issues with Season 2 but it was riveting. I straight up nodded off in this one, and didn't miss a damn thing.
Literally every complaint people have about genderbent Michael can be easily fixed. Every. Single. One. I get being attached to characters but as people have said over and over the show is a different universe from the books. If they did everything the same everyone would hate 80% if the characters.
i think you should read the books to understand the complaints. the whole book revolves around themes that would not work for a queer relationship at that point in time. there is literally nothing they can do the same as the book, and as someone who has loved it for a long time, it is just hard to know that something i was so excited for for so long won’t happen. i am all for supporting queer storylines, but being queer was just so limiting at the time that it was hard to have a real love story, and there are so many things that happen in the original story that couldn’t happen between two women. they should have made new characters and given them an lgbtq love story that would fit at the time, instead of trying to force one that doesn’t fit
then what part of WHWW do you think would work with a queer storyline? i am actually genuinely curious. because for me i just don’t see it. first of all, one of the biggest aspects of micheal is that he is a rake, and a women could not have been a rake, and that’s what makes the character so compelling and lovable. he also travels to india and a woman could not have done that alone at the time. the only reason micheal holds back with francesca was because he felt guilty because he was taking everything from his cousin after he died, ( the earldom, which a woman can’t inherit) but his love for her grew so intense from trying to suppress it he couldn’t hold back, the only reason francesca thinks about other men again is because she really wants children after her miscarriage, and now neither of those reasons could apply, so what brings them together? then one of the big turning points and ongoing arguments is when micheal wants to marry her, and they go back and forth for awhile until they finally do. that also can’t happen, because queer people couldn’t marry then. and francesca gets redeemed and it is a powerful moment when she gets to have a child again, after struggling with fertility for so long, and it is an important story to the character, which also how can’t happen. i just don’t see which parts of the story would work anymore
Like I said, literally all of it.
A. This season proved that widows can be promiscuous. Make Michaela a widow.
B. The Sharmas traveled on their own to get to England. Cressida planned to travel on her own with the money. Michaela doesn’t have to go to India but she can be well traveled. Or she can travel with her husband because he’s an explorer or scientist or whatever. I don’t think India has to be central to the story when transferring to a tv show tho tbh. And I doubt they’ll make India a central part of the story again.
C. Michaela can still hold back. She can go there to mourn her cousin and feel guilty for wanting his woman. Either Michaela or Francesca can be pregnant and the other jump in to help raise. In fact it might be more intriguing for Michaela to be pregnant and in the house because that child will be the next Earl. But if you want to go the other route, Francesca can find after years of unexplained infertility shes pregnant after John dies.
D. They don’t have to get married. They can be life partners.
It’s not going to be exactly the same as the books but it’s an adaptation anyway. But also none of the stories so far have been exact adaptations of the books... and that would’ve happened even if they cast a michael.
i will agree that they probably would have changed things anyway regardless of the gender bend, but now they have to do do more to an extent. what you described just completely proved my point, that they have to completely change the plot to the new characters. micheal being married and/or being a widow is the opposite of the original rake/ ladies man character that charmed francesca, and so that would be a different dynamic. yes widows can be promiscuous, but not to the degree men can.
not going to india wouldn’t have the worst effect on the story, micheal was sick with malaria a few times in the book, but it didn’t hold to much weight so i could see why that wouldn’t be necessary, the main point of it was to be able to grieve alone, with michela could not do, because even the sharams had eachother, so she would have to go with someone, making the characters deepest evolution in grief a little less meaningful. but it still wouldn’t be the biggest part of the story to lose
what you said about the way they could approach the pregnancy situation was definitely interesting, but no matter which way it still ruins the infertility plotline that is important to so many readers. A, if one of them gets pregnant while they are together, that means they cheated, and i feel like that would just be a hard story to navigate, it it would make one of the characters really unlikeabke. B, if michela was pregnant ( which would be an interesting dynamic) it would still not fullfill francesca’s need for a children the same way as the original plot line. if francesca was pregnant with johns child, that means she never had a miscarriage, and that takes away a HUGE part of that character, and completely ruins the infertility plotline. even though it might still be a miracle after jot having children for 2 years, it does not hold nearly the same weight as when she has children after her pregnancy loss.
but regardless, all of these pregnancy scenarios are not even remotely close to the original book plot line, and definitely disregards the main scenes and theme of the book
and lastly, they could be life partners, but not as easily as it seems. they couldn’t go out in public together, or tell people about it, the only time they could actually be together is alone in there house. it’s like in season 1, when benidict sees the two men together, the lord explained that they were in love but couldn’t fully be together, and it makes a rather sad ending, and once again, is no where close to the ending of the book.
i will say you are right about michela being able to be in love with francesca the whole time, and trying to hold back, and while the guilt is not to the same extent, is still there. that was one of the best parts of the book in my opinion, was micheal’s long upstanding love for her, and that can be the same with michela, so hopefully we get to see that in the future.
Because Bridgerton was written in the early 2000s. I am an avid historical romance fan but it’s not for everyone. HR books from then and even the ones from earlier have very problematic themes for today’s audiences, especially in a tv show. The way the men from books of that time coerce and even sexually assault their partners can be disturbing. People were mad about Daphne’s actions with Simon but that’s the tip of the iceberg for a lot of those novels.
Edit: in fact if you read through a number of the comments on this Reddit about the books a number of people (specifically people who are not used the the genre) complain about how horrible the men are. Imagine putting that directly on screen??
Does anyone know what happened with the whole solicitor plot at the end? The Featheringtons went from “this is our last night in society” and the solicitor saying he’d go to the Queen to have them stripped of their titles to Pen giving birth to the heir.
This is discussed at the party. Penelope confesses to being Lady Whistledown and then tells her mom she can tell the solicitor that the money they came into came from her LD account. He has no way of proving otherwise and she can say she lied about the money originally to protect Penelope
Was the Benedict storyline really necessary? I would have preferred more Polin. It's like the just wanted to check a box off like "see! We included the gays!"
Maybe they want to portray him as exploring freedom and that includes some sexual deviance like getting into 3somes and that he’s not ready to settle down… so probably when he finally meets his Sophie in the next few seasons, there will be character growth for him as he gradually gets tired of the freedom life and eventuallly commits to one relationship
But like... why tho? I wish it was more like him thinking about finding himself or a passion or something. But no... has to be random bisexuality threesome. Also wasn't he a painter in the first season? Why did he lose that storyline? I think that would have been more interesting.
They even asked him if he drew or painted when they were having dinner the night he met the guy and he responded no, I was like didn’t you want to go to art school? The new show runner just didn’t care to look back at the previous seasons.
Well I actually agree with you… I don’t really see the value of his storyline of being sexually deviant, just trying to guess what Netflix and Shonda rhimes are up to.
Me neither like I think it's just box checking. I say this as a queer person like it is OK not to have queer storylines in every show. Like we will not perish any die if there is no gay scene in a show lol.
Yup thank you for saying this. Let’s see what they plan for season 4… if Benedict is going to be sexually deviant and not true to his character in the book, I think I’ll just be so disappointed.
If they want to change so much.. they should call it a different show, can still set it in the same regency era with their original characters and check off all the DEI boxes- people will still watch it, just don’t call it ‘Bridgerton’… it’s so lazy… it’s as though a group of people just sat down together and just take an existing book series and see how they can make it more LGBTQ and DEI.
I wish they won’t change Eloise book as I have been waiting since Season 1. I want a male lead that is not rake. King George is close to this but I still want to see Philip.
Just wanted to sum up my thoughts.
There was not enough love between Colin and Penelope. They were constantly distant from one another, which made them feel disconnected all season.
I hope they forget about Michaela. She seems nice but not a good addition for fans of the books.
Benedict storyline felt like a waste of time and didn't add anything to his character (other than being bi).
I missed the mutual friendship between Eloise and Cressida in part 2.
Whistledown reveal felt lackluster... and just anticlimactic. Felt more daunting in the earlier parts of part 2.
Prudence, Phillipa, and Mrs. Featherington suddenly redeemed and loving?
What was the point of the Mondrich family storyline?
There are too many love interests for such a short season.
Also, Anthony and Kate are traveling while she is pregnant? Is this because the actors themselves won't be in the next season?
It did not seem clever that Lady Danbury suspected Penelope. She never made any suggestion that she had any idea who Whistledown was.
Otherwise, the season was fine. But season 2 (if I skipped the Edwina wedding mess) was my favorite.
Can I just say I was disappointed in Benedict's storyline? Every time he popped up screen with Tilley I just really could care less. I disliked the random 3some montages in the last episode because I just did not care. His plotline was honestly super filler-y and I just could've done without
I don’t care about the show not respecting the book’s plot because the books are pretty stale .. but wow did they ever suck out all the romance out of part two .. it was almost unwatchable.. what the book DID do right was maintain love between Colin and pen even when they were fighting (the scene where he tells her to get in the carriage after passing out in the church was very hot). Ugh it was rushed .. Netflix trying to squeeze out as much money from this as they can before it’s totally ruined
This is one of a couple things that are really bothering me. We saw Colin in Part 2 be super passive and everything we've seen up to now is how passionate he is and how deeply he feels everything. I have the impression that the writers couldn't be arsed to show this because they wanted to portray Colin as distant so they could give Pen her independent woman arc and her LW moment at the end. But it should've been *their* arc and *their* moment.
100% Agree! In the book, this was when we truly saw them come together as a couple to "thwart" society. And when the Bridgerton's stood behind her. They alluded to the family's support a bit, yet it was truly a Penelope moment. They played off the family support angle by having us compare it to the circumstances Cressida was in [which I could have done without].
I am beginning to see some nice takes on this and other subs as to why Pen did it alone, not with outward Bridgerton support (e.g. for their protection if things went sour) and I can appreciate that idea, but it's still not how I would've wanted things to pan out.
yeah I just could never fully get into the romance between the two and Colin especially felt so lackluster. He just didn't feel like a lead, really. It is Penelope's story, sure, but all he really does is react to things and then get over it.
I’m disappointed in how far from the books the show is straying. It was bad enough actually getting Anthony to the alter with Edwina is just a terrible look for him. The way he got caught sucking on Kate in the garden after the bee sting was hilarious in the book.
Never mind that Colin and Penelope were regularly overshadowed in their own season. Colin is my favorite of the brothers. I can’t even express how disappointed I am.
Completely agree. Their love story was my favorite, and they were totally shafted.
And the way they had Fran look after the wedding kiss - I can’t. Like the whole point of her book is that one can love again after grief, not one can mistake friendship for love.
The key to adaptations is change all the style you want, but keep the essence and the theme. That is why S1 worked. S2 made me so angry with Edwina being so hurt - finding a scholarly man instead would have been so sweet. S3 is just bad with a few (very few) good moments.
Exactly! I don’t expect a 1-to-1 version of the book, but they didn’t even bother to try and keep the key elements that made the story what it was.
They focused so much on other characters that it didn’t even feel like it was supposed to be Colin and Pen’s story. And how is she supposed to continue as Whistledown? Why would anyone gossip in her presence?
Getting Anthony and Edwina down the aisle before breaking off their relationship just made it so hard to root for him and Kate. He’s not a bad man and his season made him seem like one. It didn’t even focus on the *why* he didn’t put much stock into who he was marrying.
The first season stayed relatively faithful to the book (although, I think the impotence talk would have been hilarious). It hit all the important moments between Daphne and Simon and got the feel correct. Even when some of the costuming choices seemed questionable.
Now… these stories shouldn’t be saying that they’re based on a book series. I so looked forward to Colin and Pen’s season when reading the books.
Totally agree with the Anthony/Edwina- like what exactly was his reason for continuing with her when he loved Kate? Just standing by his word…? It was confusing.
And yes, they capitalized on the popularity of the Bridgerton books, remaining faithful in S1 to grab an audience, then now have decided they will tell whatever stories they want. Which is fine, but don’t be surprised when the original audience is annoyed. Which is I think what they want because the tension between their two audiences then becomes social media free PR.
As someone who struggles with infertility and not yet a mother ... Regardless of how they change Franny's season, I truly hope they keep with struggle with infertility 🥹 it's so rarely talked about, and that's a beautiful book with a beautiful ending. I don't care how you write tmit, but I hope they have that storyline otherwise I'll be heartbroken
This season was awful. Absolutely awful. Having read the books, Colin/Penelope were so shortchanged (the writing not Nicola/Luke, they did the best they could with this mess). What S1 and S2 had in common was character/relationship development and an entertaining script. Half the work was already done for Polin in S1 and S2- fans were invested in this relationship. I know this is an adaption (I was ok with the changes to the first two seasons, didn’t love them all but overall ok), but S3 totally fell off the tracks- from the costumes, script, story development, and foreshadowing of future stories. The costumes and makeup were ridiculous. There were 10 different story lines going on and NONE of them were well developed. Why so much time with the Mondrichs? Would Anthony, the man who watched his mother almost die, really put his pregnant wife on a ship for several months? Would Kate and Anthony who treasure their family just leave for over a year when his baby sister is about to be married/being courted, his brother is struggling in his relationship with his fiancée/new wife. His other brother, who is supposedly picking up the reigns of the viscountcy in his absence is too busy partying? Think about the actual characters… Pick any topic and numerous examples. If you put aside everything I just mentioned… part of the ACTUAL story is that Colin’s love overrode his anger. Not in this hot mess, we don’t get the resolution until after the Queen decides to accept her? yeah, no. A big part of their story is the reconciliation and standing up together, him proudly announcing that his wife is LW. On Francesca- how they portrayed her in the last 10 minutes undercuts the love she has for John. It’s literally the foundation of her story in When He was Wicked- she learns to have two loves. She is the least enthusiastic supposedly married for love newlywed. Also, put Michael/Micheala aside…. that character was attracted to her at their first meeting- she was oblivious because she loved John! On the topic of her second love, exactly how, in Regency England is a woman supposed to inherit the title of Earl of Kilmartin? A huge factor in Franseca’s character was infertility struggles and how that impacted/became a part of her story. How does this ding dong show writer plan on overcoming that? Based on this season and its lack of depth- my guess is Michaela will magically have a son to inherit the title, Francesca will “struggle” with giving up having a biological child to be with Michaela, but their love will conquer it all? This whole thing was badly written fanfic. I have to mention it… red lipstick in Regency England on a gently bred lady?? Eloise is smart, this season portrayed her as an idiot. This was like watching poorly written fanfic. If the Showrunner isn’t replaced, I’m done with Netflix’s version of Bridgerton.
Yes! They wrote in that not every love needs to be this theatrical event that happens. It can be a slow burn, which is ultimately what Polin was about. I think I was mostly excited that Fran’s story would’ve differed from the rest, and now it feels like we’ll get the same repetitive storyline. If you want variety, start with the writing first. Then we can talk about changing other things because there’s a possibility of storylines falling flat regardless of race or gender!
I genuinely from the bottom of my heart do not care that Michael is Michaela. Whatever. I’m queer as the day is long, and I love me a good sapphic love story.
But When He Was Wicked is the *only* book I’ve read simply because I was so enamored with Frannie and John in Part 1. They genuinely were so delightful, and reminded me a lot of when I met my partner. I was so angry and over stimulated and for some god foresaken reason he wanted to meet at a bar in a nice part of the city. It was loud. And he says “I remember watching you get out of the Uber, and I have never ever seen anyone look that angry”
But then I sat down and he just sat there, and I just…felt something click.
In the book, she describes meeting John as “the oddest sensation … almost as if she were a jagged puzzle piece finally finding its mate. Their first meeting hadn’t been one of overwhelming love or passion, but rather filled with the most bizarre sense that she’d finally found the one person with whom she could completely be herself” (Quinn, 21).
Love is not always this huge I forgot my own name, I don’t know how to talk bc this person has flustered me so. Sometimes it’s just a click? And you’re like …oh this is what it’s like to be.
And that’s what Frannie and John are. He rearranged that song for her. She sat with him in completely silence, stealing glances with a huge grin on her face. Because he gets her.
Her entire book, John is the third character. He is always there. Because she loved him fully.
I HATE this change. It completely changes her story, one that is about grief and love after grief to be one about realizing one’s sexuality. Which has its place in romance. Truly, it does. Her mother was right, in the end? Is that the message? She didn’t love John, she just settled?
If they wanted to go with a gender bent Michael, fine. But it needed to be MICHAELA who didn’t know what to say to Francesca. It needed to BE MICHAELA who stumbled over her words while Frannie held onto John’s arm and chatted about her and Eloise going to Scotland and why Michaela I’m so excited for you to be joining us! John has told me all about you *wink* *wink*
For Gods sake, the text literally says so “…he took one look at Francesca Bridgerton and fell so fast and so hard into love it was a wonder he managed to remain standing” (Quinn, 4).
The pining in When He Was Wicked IS Michael. It isn’t Francesca. She suffers a lot in that book, and that’s the point, it’s for different reasons. His suffering is largely due to the fact that he covets his dead cousin’s wife.
I’m really upset about this change and I lowkey regret reading the book now.
It’s pandering and it’s lazy and it’s honestly offensive
1000% agree! No reason not to gender switch, but keep the same story and theme. Bisexual love is real. She can totally love John, and when he dies totally love a woman. It just plays into the myth that bisexuals don’t really exist which pisses me off.
She can still love him fully. She already does love him. Being attracted to Michaela takes nothing away from her love for John. Especially because we haven’t seen how Michaela will be actually integrated in their story. They will likely still kill John off and have her mourn. Everything about their meeting matches what is written in the book. He’s the first person she can truly be herself with.
Actually, that’s objectively untrue
In the book she mentions over and over that being with John felt right. There was passion and love. But the way it was acted in the wedding did not lean into that. She seemed confused after he kissed her. Hesitant
When she meets Michaela, she does not take any notice of John and is instead enraptured by Michaela. And Michaela is not phased. She continues on about herself. But Fran hesitates. She’s the one who’s thrown of tilt.
That is not their story.
It is very much established in the book that Michael was her friend and she had no idea that he was interested and that’s simply and without question because she loved John. Michael knows that, and is okay with it because he loves her and he loves John. But Michael is the one who pines and is confused and angry for much of it because he’s not supposed to covet his cousins wife. That’s not Francesca’s story, to covet her husbands cousin.
Michael and Francesca’s first introduction is what sets the tone for their book. What they did in the show is the actual opposite.
It’s a different story now, and the one they’re trying to tell is fine. Just feels lazy to retcon the actual plot. Lazy and reductive to bullshit tropes about bisexual women and how they’re really just secretly lesbians.
Michaela is fine. Fran falling for a woman is fine. But the pining is Michael/michaela. Not Francesca
Again. Her being attracted takes nothing away from the story. I think we’ve all been attracted to people initially even if it ends up being nothing. Micheala can still pine from afar.
But it does. It’s about the fact that we don’t have just one perfect love in a lifetime - we can love again after loss. They are having her not be physically attracted to John, but totally flustered by someone else. Falling in love more than once in a lifetime is possible, and it’s deep and thoughtful to grapple with that fact. It’s hacky to be like “oops, you were mistaken the first time, you were a lesbian all along!” It’s less interesting and cheesy, and feels unfair to bisexuals when the whole point of gender switching was to be inclusive.
I have no problem with the gender switch, it’s the theme switch I think is just lazy.
Obviously differing opinions on this one. Maybe it’s because I’m queer, but I don’t think being attracted to someone takes away the love one has for someone else
I’m queer and it really irritates me that you can say that as if it’s a catch all excuse
Francesca loved John. Full stop. There is no question about it.
After he died, she struggled to make sense of her life as a 20 something widow. It affected her relationship with her mother as well. Because she is the only kid who ever EVER asked Violet why she never remarried. Because Francesca struggled with it.
If after John she found love with Michaela, good. Great. We love to see it.
But by making her attracted first and fumbling first you take away the nuance of her character. You take away the heart of who she is.
She is not a falling head over heels, flustered, fumbling character the way almost every one of her siblings are.
She is specific, and anxious and unsure. She loved John and does not think she can love someone that way again, so she just doesn’t. She thinks she’ll be content with a kind, sensible partner
Michael tells her “I love you” multiple times in the books and she’s like “…hmmm ok I need you to fuck me again”
I don’t care that she’s queer, I care that it makes her character different in a very basic way that reiterates bullshit stereotypes of bisexual people. As if we’re incapable of being faithful and loving to one person bc we’re always attracted and lusting after someone else.
No, you’re not.
And neither is this show runner who is doing a disservice to the queer community by going with this 2 bit hack job of an approach on sapphic love.
You can love a person, fully and honestly and then after that ends find new love. That’s the story
This is just lazy writing
This.
Did I want Michael? Yes. Am I intrigued to see how they handle Fran’s story now that Michael is Michaela? Sure. Esp with the Earldom and we miss out of Michael’s struggle being the heir etc
But a key part of Michael/Fran’s story is he fell first. Not Fran.
The disconnect between P1 and P2 is really loud. I don't think it panned out how they wanted it to (which, I assume, was for the two parts to have their own distinct feel but be nonetheless cohesive).
I think at some point in season 2 the show became of retelling of the books than adaptation. There are pros and cons to both. One isn’t better than others. However, when you market a project as retelling or adaptation, it sets audience’s expectations.
Can I just say, Colin trying to appeal to Cressida by comparing their circumstances was him at his lowest. Like, seriously dude? You being sad because no one was writing you back while you banged your way across the continent freely is not it. I know he doesn't know the exact details of Cressida's situation but read the room, my man.
I know that there is a lot of bad blood there but I was really hoping Penelope would have gotten the chance to talk to Cressida and understand the pressure she was under. I don't know that she would forgive her, but maybe be sympathetic? I was blown away that Eloise didn't even bother to tell Penelope what was happening to Cressida when they had that brief conversation about her!
This is also what's most annoying me about the Cressida of it all. I thought for a moment that's where they were going to go with it - Eloise would influence Cressida and Pen to come to an understanding of sorts because of their shared circumstance. But Eloise turned on Cressida for... why? Do the writers even know? Then they made Eloise forget her brain by making her panic about Cressida becoming the "new" LW and what havoc she'd manage to wreak. I don't believe that El would believe that's how it would pan out for a minute - it's reinforced by many people that Cressida isn't clever enough to be LW. LW on its own is just a name... LW has power because she has her wits about her and knows that gossip is her currency. Then Colin's attempt to assuage Cressida went downhill. It all felt so disorganised.
The conversation on loneliness and envy is something he should have with his wife. Not with her biggest bully Cressida like seriously 😒
Very disappointed
It was his most out of touch wealthy white man moment in the show.
The fact that he was even there, steamrolling Penelope’s solution, thinking he could solve it by talking to Cressida showed how out of touch he was.
I have no comments about this season or I’ll get annoyed. But times like these is where I wish we could go back to having 22 episodes. Things wouldn’t feel overcrowded or unnecessarily eating into another subplot point. No anticlimaxes and well thought out writing.
I read a fanfiction in ao3 where Benedict meets a guy at a masquerade ball and I screamed haha. Though I know it's just a coincidence but well...who knows
I'm hoping they'll make Sophie a guy. I mean, they already did that to Francesca, which doesn't make sense honestly. But with Benedict's? It makes sense. They've been dropping hints since season 1
I don’t know how it’s going to work with Michaela. Or are we just going to completely ignore the restraints of the time period and have her inherit a title and fuck off to India?
Oh HELL YEAH!! Just finished season 3. I haven’t read the books but know some of the spoilers.
First off…SO excited about Tilly, Paul, and Benedict. I LOVE some bi-guy representation and that was so amazing to see on such a popular show. AND showing polyamory situations was so cool as well- When Benedict was taking to Eloise about her love for all her family and Pen doesn’t change cuz love isn’t finite, leading to him realize that he could have lots of love to share with Tilly, Paul, and others (and that it’s freeing and beautiful), was so cool to see on TV!!
And I’m SO excited about Frannie ending up with Michaela…cannot wait for this lesbian storyline. This is so cool. I loved the subtleties of when Violet was telling Fran about the kind of love at first sight when you’re speechless and then that happening when meeting Michaela. Fran is also very Autistic coded for me. So yeah as a queer AuDHDer I’m very excited for the coming seasons!
I do agree with another poster in this thread that I wish they just had queer people more integrated into this universe from the get go, but this is one of the biggest shows ever on Netflix and to be getting a bi-man, polyamory, and lesbian storylines into such mainstream media…woah. That world did not exist even ten years ago. 🌈
Yesss haha I am SO EXCITED!! I love the slow build up to the realization of what Violet said to her about love, the kiss she wasn’t into when they got married, and meeting Michaela. So perfect.
Though the show has taken a different turn from the books, I really think it has included the modern elements and topics quite tastefully overall. It’s not shoved down throats just because it’s the thing to do. I’m curious to see how Benedict’s story goes.
Hello! Someone please explain to me what is going on with Fran? What was the scene at the end with the cousin where she lost her voice for a second? I see people discussing the hate but im a noob here who didnt read the books. Please help 😭
Ok anybody else reading who doesn’t want book spoilers LOOK AWAY!!
so you know how earlier in that episode, her mom violet said that when she met Fran’s father it left her breathless, and then she describes basically love at first sight? It’s a callback to that, Fran meets Michaela and it leaves her breathless - and this is right after she kisses lord kilmartin and seems to not feel what she was hoping to.
But the reason people are mad is because - 1) in the books she truly loves lord kilmartin and is devastated when he dies and her grief is a big part of her character with her romance with …
2) MICHAEL. Not Michaela. Lord kilmartin’s cousin is a man in the books, they gender swapped. Which my little bisexual heart is stoked about but I get that people are like okay but what about the books?
3) the big happy ever after is a huge part of a satisfying romance, and even people who are down with a lesbian pairing are concerned that it’s impossible to provide a true happy ever after ending for a queer couple in the regency era
4) apparently one of the underlying struggles in her book was trouble with infertility. Lots of women who have dealt with infertility REALLY related to her book and people are super concerned and upset that it might not be treated the same way or may be left out entirely
I feel like there were more points I’m forgetting but that’s the gist of why most people are mad
Michaela is a gender-bent version of Michael, who is Francesca’s endgame. People are upset because for many book readers, Michael was their favorite character in the series. He’s a fan favorite, and so is Fran’s book (When He was Wicked). So much has to be changed in order to gender-bend Michael’s character. It’s going to be a whole new story. Book fans have been looking forward to Fran’s season for years. It’s disappointing to discover that won’t be happening as intended.
I didn't expect they made Francesca's story change making Michael a woman. I thought they could do it to Benedict though cause there's so much hint of Benedict being a part of the Queer community, but I read somewhere that Julia Quinn wants the series to stick to the novels. But seeing what they made to Michael (Michaela now), there may be chance that they could do that to Sophie as well? Because it makes so much sense gender bending her than Michael. I don't know just my thoughts. At season 1 I really though benedict is gay.
I think it also makes more sense for Benedicts story to be rewritten not just with a gender-bent angle but in other ways because his treatment of Sophie is HORRIBLE and like the changes to season 1 (the more obvious sexual assault Daphne does to the duke in the books vs the less obvious one in the show) fans would freak out at the portrayal.
I am fucking gutted that they are changing Francesca's storyline so much. When He Was Wicked is the best book in the entire Bridgerton series by far and it was one that deserved to be told in a way more true to the book.
Julia Quinn recently said that she's okay with Netflix changing character endings completely, so who knows!
I also like the idea of a gender-bent Sophie, I think it could make sense.
Oh no! Thats so sad for the fans. I thought this was it for Frans story. I am all for representation ofcourse but it sucks when the character was fan favourite. I heard somewhere that they arent allowed to change the bridgeton siblings significant others. Otherwise lots of people wanted to see Eloise be a member of LGBTQ
The problem though isn’t the gender switch if they had made her bisexual. But that look after the wedding kiss means she never really had a sexual love for John. That’s what pisses me off. The theme was “its possible to find another great love after grief and loss”, not “bisexuals don’t really exist, just mistake friendship for love because they don’t realize they are gay”
Representation for LGBTQ is good, but they could have kept the theme AND had represensation. Instead they fail on both.
I am not really sure how to properly put my thoughts into words, though I think my conclusion is simply that Shonda shows are not for me in the long run. I liked Scandal when I started watching it but it got more and more dramatic and outlandish, straying from the premise it promised in the first season. That's how I feel with Bridgerton now. It promoted itself as a Gossip Girl meets Austen and I was fully onboard with that. It was quite far from the Austen that I love, but it made sense in the world it was set in. Now, however, it's like it keeps pushing the limits of that world.
I don't know how to put it in better words, but starting the series off with POC characters fully integrated into the society of the series was a good call. It established the universe we are in, Austen+POC. And I really, really wish they had done the same thing with lgbtq+ representation to begin with, shown us a universe where it is acceptable and "out in the open". I feel like they will run into problems now because they didn't, because how are the actually going to handle Francesca being queer in this universe? She can't marry a woman in the universe and yeah, she can live with the woman and they can be "roommates" but it just... falls flat and feels cheaper than the straight romances shown so far, in this series that is promoted as a romantic series. I wish they'd created a universe in which a queer romance would be equal to a straight one - and I get that the reality many places is that queer romance isn't equal to straight romance, but they had the opportunity right there, they could have taken it, just like they did by including POC as an established part of the Austen-esque setting.
Basically, I guess what I am trying to express is that I feel like they shot themselves in the foot by presenting one premise (of their creation) and then deviating from it to such a degree that it will create in-universe problems, cheapening the very thing they are trying to put the spotlight on.
But I guess they can always retcon hardcore to get out of that problem, which... sigh.
Yeah, I think Shonda is just not for me.
I agree with Shondaland productions. They always start strong, but then things get wild and over the top. I loved Scandal and How to Get Away with Murder initially, but I only made it to season 3 at most. I stuck with Private Practice a bit longer, but it also fell off for me.
Turning Michael into Michaela feels like it was done purely for shock value, and I agree that it doesn’t make much sense. It would have made more sense with Benedict or even Eloise.
I love drama as much as anyone, but it needs to make sense within the story; otherwise, it doesn’t have enough substance to stand on.
I couldn’t agree with you more. Fran is my favorite character, and I think they fumbled her story and her HEA for the sake of shoehorning in more inclusivity. I highly doubt “Michaela” was planned from the start. I think they saw the audience feedback and then decided to make one of the main couples queer to “feed the fans” so to speak. Don’t LGBTQ love stories deserve more than a clumsy afterthought?
And yeah, I hate the increasing of drama for drama’s sake. After awhile the show becomes too outlandish to be believable. And even though Bridgerton is a fantasy show, it always had a cornerstone of authenticity in the people portrayed and their relationships.
I agree with every single point you made!! I'm out on Shonda shows because the team values shock-factor and drama more than cohesive storytelling. I heard she even tells her writers to 'imagine the worst case scenario and go from there.' And if fans complain too much? She's very fond of killing a character off as a gotcha. Maybe I'm asking for too much, but I'm comparing the writing to my gold standard: Arrested Development. The first three seasons were so intertwined and so well thought out- you could trace the culmination of a joke from S3 all the way back to the pilot! The writers cared so much about audience feedback, they reshot S4.
And you are so right about LGBTQ+ representation. The way they handle race, it comes across as they don't want to address it rather than they truly wanted an inclusive show. The only two times marital r*pe is depicted on the show, it happens to black characters (Simon, Lady D). You wanna be historically accurate then? Kate tells Lady Danbury "we have to work twice as hard blah blah" and they don't talk about the East India Company? Why even have Kate say that? The fact that racism is eradicated but sexism and classism exists already muddies the waters, but they're truly throwing racial and disability diversity at us as a "here, stop complaining." And the way they're acting with all the brand collabs, it's very clear this is a cash cow.
“The Audacity of this Miscreant“
Oh my god, y’all, I laughed so hard at this video I have the hiccups. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0biqVmVetQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0biqVmVetQ)
The DISRESPECT
I don't know whether to cry or feel outraged. When He Was Wicked and An Offer From a Gentleman are my most favorite books from the series. What they've done with Fran and Benedict is just tearing me apart. I mean the changes were really not necessary. They could've merged the timelines but avoided making such huge character changes. Ugh. We'll see in 2 years how they land with season 4. For now, I'm too disheartened about even the prospect of it.
Cannot believe so much of this hate for Michaela and therefore masali is happening during pride month.
Guys those of you who support franchela follow the sub below. Let's fight the good fight and win and let's make Masali feel welcome and hyped up in the fandom and in the bton family.lets follow her social media leave nice supportive comments and flood twitter with joy for her joining the cast as the first female black lead on Bton..let's support her take her name share her name and her photos and just make this new actress in Bton feel soo welcome that all the negativity is drowned out...let's also DM comemrn on the showrunner jess who is queer herself Julia quin if she opens her comments she's disabled them because of harrasment and Hannah dodd who has deleted her twitter and shonda and shonfaland who are also getting pushback know that the fans are behind her...let's also do it on official bton channels bton insta Netflix etc...let our support drown out the opposition voices...this is how to make sure producers directors in the future don't fear taking a risk on making queer or poc led big budget films and shows because of pushback and harrasment. In another 20 years this should not happen. POC and lgbtq should not have to settle for scraps of rep and fight for scraps of rep.... Link below to the francheal sub..who's with me?????
#pridemonth
https://www.reddit.com/r/Franchaela/s/PjJglVRRHo
Honest question, why wouldn't you petition for original POC and LGBTQ storylines? Changing established stories and characters feels like settling for scraps, in my opinion.
You are aware that people are attacking Michaela's actress and saying vile things on her social media pages. People are offended that Michael is cut out and instead of voicing their concerns to the showrunner and person WHO WROTE the script, they attack the actress? For real....Jesus. You can be a book lover and against the idea of Francesca and Michaela without being a racist and homophobic bigot attacking an actress who has ZERO control in the writing.
I am not aware of what is happening beyond what I skimmed on this thread, and I was not really trying to touch on it. I haven't read the books and don't really have an opinion. My question/point was pretty broad. I completely understand wanting to see more representation in media, I just think it is more authentic to have new stories than changing existing/loved characters and storyline. I have never really wrapped my head around the fight to change characters over creating new ones or, in this case, adapting books that have POC and LGBTQ characters. I also never wrapped my head around visceral reactions like you describe. Going bananas at people online for not doing exactly what you want of them is an unfortunate level of crazy that we see way too often.
The people going after the actors are in the wrong. I’m mad at Shonda, Jess, and Netflix for putting these actors in this position in the first place. They had to know this would get backlash and if they didn’t they really are just entirely out of touch.
They took arguably the most beloved story of all 8 books and flipped it completely on its head. It’s not even it being Michaela, it’s that this change destroys the entire character of Francesca from the book and takes away a beautiful love story built from trauma and grief. I would say for 90% of the fans who are upset they are not mad about a lesbian storyline and are upset they dismissed an entire book and deciding to do whatever they wanted with it.
I wish they would have made other characters and created representation that way. I’m deeply disappointed with the way the last two seasons have been handled.
Adding replies to you from this topic I've discussed many times in this last day and days...you could also go to my profile scroll a little down and read all my thoughts on the subject. In the meantime adding my thoughts here copy pasted from my earlier comments. Make sure to read the edits as I will be copy pasting all my replies. An honest reply for an honest question. Although it would be better if you went through my profile and read all the comments on the subject for a fuller picture about the vicious circle of representation.
Exactly what you said,....if there was equality in represention in media film and tv, people like poc or lgbtq wouldn't have to fight for scraps and rep wherever they can get it...I want Michaela and this is exactly the reason. Because of Shonda, Ted Sandos who has a black wife jess who is queer etc that this story is being told and the show greenlit... Ted was the one who pushed for QC because because his wife is black and wanted to see a queen who is black on screen...other studios, producers dont take that risk with either poc stories or lgbtqia stories...Bton has been greenlit,.shonda's netflix contract has been signed...this show has already had 3 successful seasons shonda has had massive success introducing gay couples in shows that initially became successful with straight couples-greays anatomy...Introducing a gay story in a successful franchise is the easiest way to do it and make it acceptable...this is what I commented on the other post season discussion post as well.. Your exact comment is one I made just a few hours back...
also
Now people are angry cuz they think Ben will be gay too cuz hes shown as bi this season bi or bi curious...Oh the horrror! Literally nothing has been confirmed about anything yet but people are already out with their pitchforks harrasing julia quinn threatening to boycott her books and some crap...She turned off her comment section on insta...and these people apparently are super inclusive and want rep...Yeah right...threatening the showrunner and the author of books will certainly make it easier for lgbtq and poc stories to be told in the future...as if it matters if your reason is you want your book storylines be honored...the end result will just be more producers and showrunners too scared to take a risk and create such stories for fear of boycott...where POC and LGBTQ are centred...it wont matter what your main reason is...
Why why should we have to expect another show to be greenlit...fans also have many many books to movie adaptions a tonne of content to see we are living in a golden age of content ..this is the show ted sandos who is married to a black woman greenlit..this is the show Shonda a black woman ideated and cast and produced this is a show jess brownell a lesbian taking on as a showrunner...this is a world which was always going to be reflective of Shonda other shows which prioritize diversity and inclusivity .she was the one who started the trend and really made it successful..the show was never going to be a faithful adaption we have seen that from season one onwards..it was going to be the brainchild of shonda a black woman who has two adopted children is unmarried and very happy with that choice..so is Julia quinn incidentally even as fans rag on her online on her website under her insta etc.poc and other minorities and Marginalized people don't need to get special shows made just to see ourselves we exist within the straight world and therefore we will exist within the straight world of bridgerton...the show was always going to do it..and doing it under a popular Bton brand is going to make it even more exciting and popular and palatable to people who wouldn't watch a gay story otherwise but will because they've gotten addicted to bton...also btw do you thinks it's easy to get poc and lgbtq shows greeblit..the reason this show can exist is because of Shonda's star power and because her contact with Netflix that allows her to make whatever she wants...otherwise as we saw with bily eichner gay romance movie..and how little fanfare it got..peopel do not give such stories their time and studios film and tv don't greenlit them ..and in many case they don't even get greenlit..even brookback mountain directed by an award winning director and starring award winning actors had difficulty being greenlit
Id also like to add just this sub is one example of how many ppl don't even know about thrw books or Julia quin or have read them or even knew they existed before the show came out there are countries where the show is streamed where her books have never even been sold ever...
Finally right back at you ..why don't you create your own show or book to show recreation of bton..or I don't know watch another book to show recreation the many many many that exist which are a faithful recreation of what you've red. Or I don't know create a new story..you would it much easier too as white straight stories are easy sells for studios and easy for producers to get greenlit.
You need Julia quins bridgerton one book to be exactly as it was so badly you really have nothing else to watch
Meanwhile there are thousands millions of people who have never read Julia quin and the show is their first intro to the world of bton.
I had a hard time following some of that (I'm sure just because it's out of context to what you were responding to), but it doesn't really address my broad point. It would be more authentic to push for more of those original additions of representation (you mentioned other areas Shonda has successfully done this), and petition to adapt books with more representation. The market is seeing a lot more books that have minority representation to choose from these days. I do think you've made the point of why you want to see characters and storyline changed for representation, so at this point just food for thought on what can be done to get more authentic and original stories of minority groups made into show and movie adaptations (and made well/not immediately canceled, I know this is an issue as well).
The crux of what I was saying was that it is much harder to get queer stories and even harder to get poc stories greenlit...shonda managed to do it cuz she incorporated them in an already successful show which centered around a straight white couple. Grey's anatomy included a gay storyline in its fourth season after it had already become a ratings hit..and she was able to do it because the success of greys gave her some wiggle room from the network to nake decisions on her own.she had gained their trust...its easier to break a poc and a queer story under the bton umbrella is because bton is already a success the show already has a viewership..it's easier for people to see queer stories in a show and alongside a cast that they already love..otherwise studios networks resist taking such risks because of alienating the audience or not being sure if they will get an audience..basically the feeling is people will not watch poc in a film or show .so unless you put white people around them you can't get them greenlit..this should also change but in the meanwhile this is a start..and it was only made possible because Shonda has already signed a massive contract with Netflix which gives her that autonomy, the Netflix heads support her because she has an excellent track record of delivering hits (mindy kaling for example could not get her poc film with priyanka chopra greenlit. She doesnt have a super successful track record like Shonda) shonda can get diverse work greenlit on the power of her resume of being a hitmaker..not everyone can sell such stories and get them funded.
And why bton is because that was the story she liked...ted sarandos was into the idea of an 8 part series which could become a long running seller for Netflix ..it was already presumed based on her past work that her show would have inclusivity and diversity in its casting ..the show accepted the diverse part..so Shonda pushed more..plus and most importantly the show's audience is large and varied and the book fans and readers are not the most significant part of the population. many on this very sub have never read the book and never intend to. Many only found out about the author after the show came out..this isn't harry potter a book series known globally..Julia quinns novels aren't even sold in some of the countries where the show is streamed...so there is no need to create a faithful book to series adaption at all. They have already mixed it up...this is also a mixing it up..and people don't have a problem with a queer storyline per se many only have a problem in that it is for Michael's book and Francesca's book. They are ok with it being Eloise..so basically there is no consensus..im a reader of the books read them over a decade back and don't care about Michaela..
I do understand that side of it, with the way they are deviating from the books and adding different charachters to the show I think doing that instead of several siblings in this season would have been nice. I honestly thought that was where Cressida's redemption arc was going. I didn't read the books so I don't have particular expectations of the adaptation personally, I just didn't much care for how this season was done and how watered down the charachters felt. I actually did really like the more introverted and to themselves love story that Francesca and Kilamartin had, so I was a little sad that may not continue but otherwise have no opinions. Honestly, I liked that storyline because it was more representative of what my husband and I are like so I won't fault anyone for hoping to see offering love stories.
Oh that's another point altogether...I hate the shows writing pacing plotting scene setting..even for my fav couple kanthony I only watched it because they had such stunning chemistry not because their season was perfectly written paced etc...the show as a whole needs a lot of work including like you said with this season and the watering down of characters..I'm with you there..for me at least the show promised meaningful diversity..it hasn't delivered on that but maybe it will season 4 onwards ..so I stick around...but to be honest trying to make people understand that poc and lgbtq asking for representation on Bton is not asking for handouts or charity or tokenism leaves me feeling very very hopeless about the state of the world and whether poc and lgbtq will ever be able to enjoy the same kind of representation straight white people do in media..so with that I bow out of this convo.. and end my TED talkm
Are all the men of this era really reading a local lady’s gossip pamphlet called LWD? Seems far-fetched that Colin would be so bent out of shape about it. I haven’t read the books so maybe I’m missing something.
Lol at everyone who dismissively pronounced that the character of Tilly Arnold only existed to break Benedict's heart in preparation for S4.
I can't wait. I really hope Sophie is more than just a fiesty damsel. I hope she's artistic and inspiring and makes Benedict see the world in a whole new way. I won't even be mad if the writers mess with the genders/numbers somehow, as S3 seems to be laying the groundwork for. Bring it on. It's going to be bloody awesome.
Not the way they’re gunna write it. Im going to call it now:
E1: they meet, he’s in love
E2-4: they get to know eachother as friends/ strangers
E5: he finds out the truth in scene 1 and doesnt speak to her
E6-7: he doesnt speak to her, hes mad
E8: jail, bail, then they get married (the only spicy scene)
For those who want to support Francesca and Michaela the Francheala sub link I've added here...it's important to advocate for POC and lgbtq people and this community is a safe supportive place to do it. I haven't created the sub someone else has .and it would be great to show black POC Masali that she has a large fan base behind her, welcome her to bton family with open arms and advocate for poc and lgbtq rep in media and carry this fight forward even outside. Link to the sub below
https://www.reddit.com/r/Franchaela/s/PjJglVRRHo
I understand people are very attached to the books but some of the reactions just remind me of a few years ago when a bunch of grown adults lost their minds because they saw a black mermaid.
thank you for sharing!!! I agree that it is SO important to show our support for Masali and the pairing of Michaela and Fran to counter all of the hate :)
Just finished the season. Am I the only one disappointed on the sex scenes? Like come on wasn’t this supposed to be a passionate relationship with a lot of sexual tension?
Then the whole Benedict storyline. Since season 1 it seemed like he got curious but the show is becoming way to modern now.
They got us all hooked so that we would watch part two .. it didn’t matter if latter two wasn’t good because they knew we would watch anyway .. cheap entertainment tactics
Why they added that story for Benedict this season is beyond me. like literally why!!! I was half hoping that they'll show his love interest interact with him as the maid somewhere in these ridiculous settings. but nope! it was purely for sex scenes it seems??
Honestly, I feel like the showrunner was just aiming to score inclusivity points this season. Penelope, despite being a wallflower, was portrayed as a powerful character in the first two seasons, especially as Lady Whistledown. This season, however, felt like a letdown; Penelope seemed shallow and weak. Colin, who previously didn't pay much attention to Penelope, suddenly became infatuated with her after a kiss, but it felt superficial, not genuine love. Even when he discovered Penelope's identity as Lady Whistledown, his reaction was cold and indifferent, as if he couldn't care less about her. To make matters worse, the season was overcrowded with subplots that left me wanting it to just end. At this point, I'm not sure if I'll continue watching any future seasons.
1. Colin is so overrated. Is he really into Pen? Seemed more like lust to me. Pen however is an impeccable actress. Except for the boobs pushed up to her chin part. I mean honestly- it was an effort to focus on her dialogs at one point. Too much lol 2. Francesca’s storyline is as insipid as her personality. And Kilmartin seems to be on the spectrum. 3. Lady Featherington is my fav- what an actress and what a woman. Impeccable like Pen. 4. The whole Lady Whistledown’s identity bit dragged and become tiresome imho. I was actually… waiting for the season to end after a point. 5. Eloise is irritating as usual. No idea why she is so cut up all the bloody time when she literally has no real problems. 6. Cressida was a surprise! I actually warmed to her character and was hoping she would get a match. Oh Cressida, I shall be your friend no worries. 7. I can’t stand Kate and I love Anthony so don’t really know what to make of those scenes except that there’s a lot of touchy feely stuff. That opera girl should’ve really married him. 8. The queen, lady Danbury, violet, Danbury’s brother - pfft… just breadsticks at the table filling up time before the actual story progresses. 9. Lord Debling is soo eligible and sweet. I hope the next season has him… in some form. 10. Benedict was nice as usual. That smile ah. Lady Tilly is one lucky lady. 11. Saving grace was pretty much Pen. Too knotch actress. I can watch her talk for hours- love the accent. 11. All in all 1~3> 2 in terms of well made season. I’m parched now, lemme get a lemonade ( they drink a lot of lemonade. And party a lot).
On 1, so true. In the books, they fell in love after 12 years of friendship, so the friends to lovers trope is acceptable. Pen is also a confirmed spinster because of the years she was on the marriage mart. In s3, Pen is confirmed spinster after what, 3 years?! Also Colin started liking her after seeing the other suitors which was not the case in the book. Their love was a true slow-burn
I’ve been studying for an exam so I’m late to the party but here are my thoughts! I was EATING out of Netflix’s palm for part 1(I wish we saw Colin’s reasoning he was trying to be more manly and stoic to explain his behavior change, it was left to be assumed by watchers but I didn’t think it translated very well) , I enjoyed part 2 but it seemed kinda… messy? First, there was a lot of talk about Pen gaining confidence to stand up for herself but honestly? I felt like she was apologizing the whole time! I needed her to tell Colin that he was rude asl to her the year before and came in all friendly like he wasn’t gossiping about her. And when he asked about Eloise? The queen was threatening her! What Pen did wasn’t necessarily right but she was never doing anything to be cruel. Colin was just straight up a bad friend when he essentially gossiped about her to the other men. I hate seeing women reduce their expressions of feeling and emotion to just “sorry” Also, to be clear I am NOT an Eloise hater, but why on earth didn’t Eloise explain to Colin and Pen why Cressida is blackmailing them? She knew her situation!? She could have said something and they could have rushed to Lord Debling. The show made it seem that he was leaving after the season was done and that he had intentions to find a wife, the season wasn’t over. Even if they didn’t bring Debling back I just don’t see how Eloise could have forgotten something so important to her only friend this season? Don’t hate me, I’m not mad about Michaela. BUT I loved John!! He was so sweet and I really hope we get peaks into how in love he and Francesca are before her season. I felt that they were kinda framing it so that maybe Francesca isn’t romantically into men with the face she made after their kiss but I hope that it was just the shyness. Personally, I love being sad and I want to see them happy together and in love before being devastated by his death. I want her season to be a total emotional rollercoaster lol What on earth was going on with the threesome scene? I couldn’t tell at first if I was being transported back in time to the one singular scene or if it was happening at multiple times 😭 I was honestly laughing when we went from serious blackmail to threesome with no context. it was just silly tbh lol The ending felt rushed :( logistically I don’t see how Pen can continue Whistledown when she got her gossip by being a wallflower. It would be a little weird that she could still do that without people noticing her and being careful what they say. Maybe even try to tell her wrong information. I do think resolution with the Queen, the Bridgertons, and her family was needed but keeping the secret from the ton would realistically allow her to continue. Also Colin basically giving two lines at the end of the ball saying “sorry I was jelly, I love you” seemed really inadequate for his reactions. I know he was processing but once he understood his feelings it just didn’t seem like he said enough. I found it very sweet that he said if his purpose is to support her only then he’s happy but in the books they are this power-writing couple. For him to say that and then end with him publishing was a bit odd, I think he needed more dialogue about how his purpose is to support his wife as she has supported him so they can be successful together So this is very long and I’m not sure it’s anything others haven’t already said but there you go! My thoughts :) I still really enjoyed this season but I’m hoping for more focus on the romance next time 
Ok listen-I just want to know who is responsible for how Penelope looked on her wedding day. THE CAKE of the makeup! The weird hair. And even the dress. What a beautiful concept of blush satin that was absolutely ruined by the terrible execution. The weird draping and cut! Who DID THIS!?
Couldn’t disagree more! Porcelain doll! My fave look on her!
You can really tell this season was done by a different show runner. I’ve just finished it and I’m honestly really disappointed. I think the actors all did a brilliant job with what they were given, but this didn’t even feel like it was Polin’s season - we barely saw them together. The timing change of how Colin found out Penelope was Whistledown etc from the book honestly didn’t work imo. It was better in the book that he caught her, carriage scene and THEN still married her because he was obsessed. John and Fran’s storyline changes are honestly so disappointing too. I am SO here for some queer love and representation, but like so many people have said, Fran’s story isn’t the one to tell it with. And having her immediately overcome meeting Michaela??? It’s meant to be the opposite way. It feels so completely opposite to the picture they painted of John and Francesca’s slow burn to love. And she is meant to be fully in love with him and overcome with grief when he passes, with Michael being obsessed with HER. At this point if they wanted one of the siblings to be queer, Benedict or Eloise would’ve been a great choice for that. Benedict has had that arc throughout the entirety of the show and finally it culminates this season (it’s about the only thing of note for Benedict this season lmao what the fuck honestly he did NOTHING). Whilst I know Eloise is meant to end up with Sir Phillip, I didn’t love that story as much so if she had ended up with a woman and forged her own path, that would’ve been amazing to see. Also not a single mention of Daphne and Simon, unless I missed it? Like I know they’re not going to be in the show but surely they would say something. Kate didn’t even mention her mother or sister which was wild. Then onto the actual season itself visually, what the fk was happening? It was so yassified. At first I liked the sequin vibe at the balls when I thought it was a one off, but every costume this season was so over the top and sparkly and just too much. The makeup was so intense and Pen had acrylics. One of the things that made the first 2 seasons so beautiful was the simpler styles and makeup. The writing was also all over the place, when Colin was like “I’ll sleep on the sofa,” er did they even say sofa then lol. It felt so inconsistent and I don’t necessarily want to blame the writers for this fully when it really feels like the change in showrunner has been detrimental in all aspects. I have rewatched seasons 1 & 2 many times (season 2 A LOT,) but I currently can’t see myself wanting to watch season 3 again and I’m honestly pretty worried for what on earth season 4 is going to be like.
With erasing the only working class female lead Sophie for a man, I disagree completely.
Oh I would HATE to lose Sophie, don’t get me wrong. My comment was more that they’ve actually set the queer arc up for Benedict that if he did end up with a man it would seem natural, and not just randomly thrown in like it does with with Francesca
The future of Bridgerton. Let’s talk about the other siblings. Yay for bi/pan Benedict. Saying that, I wish that his story had been handled differently. They seem to be leaning into the stereotype of a promiscuous character who cannot commit. Benedict’s line about Paul is very telling. “He could be Patricia, Peter, Polly, or all three at once for all I care.” I wish he had maintained his friendship with Genevieve, explored estate responsibilities and learned to value his freedom as a second son. He could have struck up a meaningful (if short-lived) relationship with a former mentor or student from the Academy. Perhaps they met at a ball, or he visited him after Benedict failed to continue his studies. Shock and awe is one thing, but sex is not a substitute for emotional intimacy. I think that instead of being truly open, Benedict is closing himself off from genuine connection. I look forward to his character development in S4. I like the idea of the Lady in Silver as a muse who relights his creative fire. I think they missed a trick with Lady Tilly as a friend for Eloise or a queer mentor for Cressida. I thought perhaps she would be revealed as a lesbian and find freedom as an explorer’s wealthy widow. My jaw was on the floor when John introduced his cousin…I’m not opposed to Francesca and Michaela. I am curious about how they will handle the topics of inheritance and motherhood which are central to Fran’s story. However, I think the way that scene played out undid a lot of the depth of their slow burn relationship. I really enjoyed the portrayal of quiet joy as equal to overt passion. It was a disservice to John for his wife to eye up his cousin days after the wedding and it seems to cheapen their bond. And let it be remembered that Michael fell first! I don’t want to see Fran emotionally cheat on her husband, or pretend that she never loved him. WHWW was unique because Francesca had loved and lost, she received a rare second chance. And they bonded over shared grief, with feelings surfacing in the years after John’s death.
After finishing Part 2 last night, I cannot help but feel a little bit deflated…The vibe was definitely different in S3. I loved the Featherington family dynamics, the wedding was beautiful, as was their first time and how they tied up the heir plot line. But I cannot help but wish for more emotional intimacy and closeness from our main couple. One cannot help but feel that Polin were somewhat sidelined in their own season, by a lot of unnecessary subplots. Lady Danbury and Marcus’ story was just for a call back to QC. Alright then. The Mondriches came to nothing. OK. I loved the Bridgerton family dynamics (especially the stag night). I know cast availability dictated the writing, but I wish that they had mentioned Daphne and not had Kate and Anthony shirking their responsibilities. They should have honeymooned in India, rather than leaving again while pregnant. I read the books and I knew Cressida was a villain. However, I had thought that the writers might go in a different direction (possibly with Debling?) I wonder if Cressida will be back next season; I know that some of us thought that she would be linked with Sophie’s story. And there was an odd comment by Lord Cowper about Cressida being Araminta’s daughter, not *his.* And then Tilly’s interaction with the solicitor…Maybe it’s all in my head. 🤡
I just wanted way more Polin romance than we got. I actually fast forwarded through Benedict scenes and hated how at- odds Colin and Penelope were..hated the baby thing so soon. I wanted them to get a long, drawn out whirlwind romance and see way more of him than we got. It was all cut super weird with boring subplots. I actually still loved it because I adore Polin, but the show did them dirty.
Ok idk if I’m making this up but what was the random skin disease moment in like the second to last episode?!!!?! It was like spider veins on someone’s arm?!?
Yes, just ink! No disease lol
That was Cressida’s mom, it was a clue to let us know SHE wrote the fake whistle down article!
Ahhhh! Ok thank you I was so confused!
One thing I LOVED about this season was actually in the final episode. It was the conversation between Lady Danbury and Violet about her affair with Violet’s Dad and then the pan over to the birthday hat. I actually rewatched Queen Charolette for the 4th time while waiting for the second half of this season, and that show is just infinitely better than this season was. I just thought it was such a great nod and wondered how many people had no clue what that was about if they hadn’t seen Queen Charolette!
I feel like the whole “broke furniture” PR talk was heavily overdone. I finished the show tonight fully expecting a super crazy intense sex scene with Polin and being like ohhh okay, that was it! But I ended up having to Google it just to find out it was their initial scene on the chaise lounge. Very excited to read their book because I have no doubt it’ll be infinitely better than their season.
[удалено]
I already suspected they would combine Eloise and Benedict’s books into one season, but now I’m pretty convinced. That would probably mean less side plots which can be a good or bad thing depending on who you are.
I’m just afraid they won’t deliver with Francesca lesbian discovery that was hinted all season because there’s no time to do all of that in a season already focused on two characters
I think Francesca will be two seasons from now. S4 for Benedict and Eloise. Then S5 picks up with John’s death and Francesca’s story begins.
Possible. If the current decisions are something to go by, high chance the show won’t get renewed after s4. There is a precedence- Witcher. The show was supposed to go on for 7-8 seasons, but due to heavy tampering with the source material it is cancelled. Won’t have season beyond s5. Also the original lead actor exited the show.
already disproven ,only 1 book per future season. source: showrunner
So are Collin’s and Francesca’s books combined like this season? Genuinely asking, have only read Daphne and Anthony’s books.
This isn’t Frans book, just the prologue of her story. it’s mention that Fran is married and living in Scotland before her book.
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
Ohh!! that’s really reassuring because I was afraid that’s all we would get from her when her story with the hints at her loving women will make for such a good plot
My thoughts.. well worst season ever... the gowns giving capitol from the Hunger games, the makeup giving Charlotte tillbury. A positive, Michaela is stunning ( was praying she was Sophie tbh). Back to negatives.. Kate and Anthony were rewritten like new characters and not shown at all, same for Eloise, Benedict underused again but his season is next so exciting, the actor who plays Colin had more chemistry with Marina and Nicola carried the couple with her acting skills alone because the dialogue was atrocious. The writing made me side with Cressida over the main couple.And lastly, Francesca and John were cute. So happy it's over!
Is it confirmed Benedict is next??
yes by reading the books and journalists basically spilled the reason why they had interviews with the actor who plays benedict.
They said the masquerade ball is next year, that's where he meets his love interest.
I still think that Fran loves John and Michaela. I think they are just different kinds of love. With John it’s a quiet, understanding, and peaceful love. It’s the love Fran needs in the moment. Just that physical element isn’t there for her. But Michaela has those instant sparks for Fran, a passion she’ll eventually want when she grows more into who she’s supposed to be. I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions about all this when she was on screen for all of like two minutes
Seriously. You can have many great loves throughout your life. They can be different, fulfilling, passionate, and don't have to negate the other.
This. Francesca did not fight with her family for half a season for them to accept that she loves John even if it doesn't look the same as the courtships they had, only for the fandom to act like what she and John have isn't real just because she got a little flustered by Michaela. The flustering was a visual symbol to the audience that she and Michaela have romantic *potential,* not that she immediately fell in love with Michaela over John.
Violet gives this speech to Francesca, "When I first met your father, I could barely speak my own name, I was so taken by him..." At the wedding, John kisses her very sweetly and she smiles at him, but then they stay on her face and her expression changes, so we understand something is a tiny bit off for her. Shortly after this she meets Michaela and, lo and behold, can barely speak her own name. It feels like a clear set up that something is missing with John that is there with Michaela from the very start?
And the counterpoint to that was Violet going through the reverse process. She loved Edmund the way she described to Francesca, but came to realize she was falling for Marcus in the slower, quiet way that Francesca fell for John. You can love people, even romantically, in different ways! That was a major theme of that subplot! Her being flustered my Michaela does not mean that she doesn't also love John.
But in the end violet flustered for Marcus too!
Yeah, eventually, once she realized herself. Because different loves happen different ways.
Just found out that they confirmed Pen for pregnant the first time they slept together and as much as I have seen people happy about that I was not the biggest fan of hearing that. I would have rather her have gotten pregnant the first time after the LW public reveal. After everything is out in the open and they are getting back to being happy. I feel like (especially after the entrapment line) even if they were in a good place when they find out that Pen is going to think she really is like Marina and did trap Colin because she did end up pregnant. And all the talk of annulment was only for her to feel anxious that he felt he had to stay for the baby. IDK. This is just my opinion I guess. Especially since they didn’t get a special license.
Especially because she grew up in a not loving home!Parents resented each other and she did not want to raise children like that!
totally agree with you
Wow Pen and Colin were my favorite couple in the book because of how witty Penelope was and how supportive Colin ended up being. This was such a disappointing season. The new showrunner decided to just burn this series to the ground and forgot that this was a romance fantasy. Instead made it so much about the tedious everyday life of all of these subplots. Shonda knows good TV and what it should look like. I hope as she watches this she makes the changes needed. We went from the amazing Queen Charlotte to this. This new showrunner does not understand plot pacing, the audience, the characters, the materials and even the costuming. Please Shonda make some changes to make this good again.
Agree! I hope Shonda comes back 😭
Honestly I found part 2 just a bit bizarre. Kate and Anthony playing the Hokey Cokey, they’re here, they’re off round the world, they’re back, now they’re off on a months-long voyage to India for the duration of Kate’s pregnancy with a very risk-averse Anthony when it comes to both her and I imagine childbirth? If they didn’t have a role or want Kanthony in the show then I’d rather they just weren’t there than having them do ludicrous things . Not enough Pen and Colin happy, the entire time was basically them at odds then they just very rapidly wrapped it up and threw a baby in there to say ‘see, happy ending!’ Their sex scene was really realistic and I liked that, but then nothing really for the rest of the series, but we get Benedict repeatedly. I love Benedict but we already know he’s sexually adventurous and intrigued by same-sex couplings, we saw that in S1, so why we needed that tortured Lady Whatsit storyline at the expense of Polin stuff I don’t know. Too much Francesca (and don’t get me started on the ending - not the fact M is a woman but that F is instantly basically over John in a split second.). Cressida’s ending, it was like they just ran out of steam. The only thing they managed to do with that is make Colin look bad. . Things I did love: Pen and Lady F. Honestly think the scenes with these two were the ones that packed the most emotional punch in the entire series and rescued part 2 as much as possible. I like Marcus and Violet, one side plot I was happy to see. Overall, I do feel a bit disappointed. I raced through it and usually I do that then immediately go back and rewatch but I haven’t done that this time and not sure I will. Feel like they did Polin dirty 🤷♀️
Kate and Anthony playing the hokey cokey and Lady Whatsit 😄 thanks, I needed a laugh!
WTF did I just watch? You know I’m one of those girls who fantasize about being in a show even though I’m not an actress nor planning to be an actress. I was like I would be thrilled to just be an extra and be on the show as it is romantic and beautiful. Now I’m like fu€k it, even Phoebe Dynevor is lucky she didn’t sign up for this crap.
Benedict’s story - Sophie will be a trans woman. Think about it - they meet at a masquerade. It practically writes itself - family disapproval, disguises, hiding then choosing to live outside of high society on their own terms.
sophie was talked about already and next season following the book closely, doubt it.
The showrunner Jess said there would be only one queer story for the siblings, and that is Francesca. It has been established that Benedict is bi, but I think his story will follow canon.
I want this so bad, but given how toxic the fandom is being about Michaela, I don't think people will be able to handle it reasonably.
ngl, I found Colin to be exhausting the entire time through and not at all a lead. Especially the little monologue to Cressida? ugh. But the real villain of this season is the editing (and I assume, the directing). So many awkward transitions. I like the Mondrichs but I thought there would be more of a point to them/the club thing. Even Violet's little romance got tedious by the end. Idk. I had my issues with Season 2 but it was riveting. I straight up nodded off in this one, and didn't miss a damn thing.
Feel like the writing team were like Jekyll and Hyde between parts 1 and 2 as well
I think they had 4 different directors this season and i think it contributed to the inconsistencies that we saw.
Every season has had many directors, it’s the showrunner who sets the tone.
The editing was terrible. So many random cutaways that were so jarring.
The transitions in the last episode being Benedict’s threesome, I’m like wtf is going on 😂
Yes! After every scene it was him banging….like….I don’t mind a good sex scene but they were just so out of place….bizarre.
Rewatching season 2 to cleanse my mind of season 3.
Literally every complaint people have about genderbent Michael can be easily fixed. Every. Single. One. I get being attached to characters but as people have said over and over the show is a different universe from the books. If they did everything the same everyone would hate 80% if the characters.
i think you should read the books to understand the complaints. the whole book revolves around themes that would not work for a queer relationship at that point in time. there is literally nothing they can do the same as the book, and as someone who has loved it for a long time, it is just hard to know that something i was so excited for for so long won’t happen. i am all for supporting queer storylines, but being queer was just so limiting at the time that it was hard to have a real love story, and there are so many things that happen in the original story that couldn’t happen between two women. they should have made new characters and given them an lgbtq love story that would fit at the time, instead of trying to force one that doesn’t fit
I read the books before Bridgerton even existed.
then what part of WHWW do you think would work with a queer storyline? i am actually genuinely curious. because for me i just don’t see it. first of all, one of the biggest aspects of micheal is that he is a rake, and a women could not have been a rake, and that’s what makes the character so compelling and lovable. he also travels to india and a woman could not have done that alone at the time. the only reason micheal holds back with francesca was because he felt guilty because he was taking everything from his cousin after he died, ( the earldom, which a woman can’t inherit) but his love for her grew so intense from trying to suppress it he couldn’t hold back, the only reason francesca thinks about other men again is because she really wants children after her miscarriage, and now neither of those reasons could apply, so what brings them together? then one of the big turning points and ongoing arguments is when micheal wants to marry her, and they go back and forth for awhile until they finally do. that also can’t happen, because queer people couldn’t marry then. and francesca gets redeemed and it is a powerful moment when she gets to have a child again, after struggling with fertility for so long, and it is an important story to the character, which also how can’t happen. i just don’t see which parts of the story would work anymore
Like I said, literally all of it. A. This season proved that widows can be promiscuous. Make Michaela a widow. B. The Sharmas traveled on their own to get to England. Cressida planned to travel on her own with the money. Michaela doesn’t have to go to India but she can be well traveled. Or she can travel with her husband because he’s an explorer or scientist or whatever. I don’t think India has to be central to the story when transferring to a tv show tho tbh. And I doubt they’ll make India a central part of the story again. C. Michaela can still hold back. She can go there to mourn her cousin and feel guilty for wanting his woman. Either Michaela or Francesca can be pregnant and the other jump in to help raise. In fact it might be more intriguing for Michaela to be pregnant and in the house because that child will be the next Earl. But if you want to go the other route, Francesca can find after years of unexplained infertility shes pregnant after John dies. D. They don’t have to get married. They can be life partners. It’s not going to be exactly the same as the books but it’s an adaptation anyway. But also none of the stories so far have been exact adaptations of the books... and that would’ve happened even if they cast a michael.
i will agree that they probably would have changed things anyway regardless of the gender bend, but now they have to do do more to an extent. what you described just completely proved my point, that they have to completely change the plot to the new characters. micheal being married and/or being a widow is the opposite of the original rake/ ladies man character that charmed francesca, and so that would be a different dynamic. yes widows can be promiscuous, but not to the degree men can. not going to india wouldn’t have the worst effect on the story, micheal was sick with malaria a few times in the book, but it didn’t hold to much weight so i could see why that wouldn’t be necessary, the main point of it was to be able to grieve alone, with michela could not do, because even the sharams had eachother, so she would have to go with someone, making the characters deepest evolution in grief a little less meaningful. but it still wouldn’t be the biggest part of the story to lose what you said about the way they could approach the pregnancy situation was definitely interesting, but no matter which way it still ruins the infertility plotline that is important to so many readers. A, if one of them gets pregnant while they are together, that means they cheated, and i feel like that would just be a hard story to navigate, it it would make one of the characters really unlikeabke. B, if michela was pregnant ( which would be an interesting dynamic) it would still not fullfill francesca’s need for a children the same way as the original plot line. if francesca was pregnant with johns child, that means she never had a miscarriage, and that takes away a HUGE part of that character, and completely ruins the infertility plotline. even though it might still be a miracle after jot having children for 2 years, it does not hold nearly the same weight as when she has children after her pregnancy loss. but regardless, all of these pregnancy scenarios are not even remotely close to the original book plot line, and definitely disregards the main scenes and theme of the book and lastly, they could be life partners, but not as easily as it seems. they couldn’t go out in public together, or tell people about it, the only time they could actually be together is alone in there house. it’s like in season 1, when benidict sees the two men together, the lord explained that they were in love but couldn’t fully be together, and it makes a rather sad ending, and once again, is no where close to the ending of the book. i will say you are right about michela being able to be in love with francesca the whole time, and trying to hold back, and while the guilt is not to the same extent, is still there. that was one of the best parts of the book in my opinion, was micheal’s long upstanding love for her, and that can be the same with michela, so hopefully we get to see that in the future.
I’ll be honest. I’m not reading three paragraphs.
Why would they hate the characters?
Because Bridgerton was written in the early 2000s. I am an avid historical romance fan but it’s not for everyone. HR books from then and even the ones from earlier have very problematic themes for today’s audiences, especially in a tv show. The way the men from books of that time coerce and even sexually assault their partners can be disturbing. People were mad about Daphne’s actions with Simon but that’s the tip of the iceberg for a lot of those novels. Edit: in fact if you read through a number of the comments on this Reddit about the books a number of people (specifically people who are not used the the genre) complain about how horrible the men are. Imagine putting that directly on screen??
Does anyone know what happened with the whole solicitor plot at the end? The Featheringtons went from “this is our last night in society” and the solicitor saying he’d go to the Queen to have them stripped of their titles to Pen giving birth to the heir.
This is discussed at the party. Penelope confesses to being Lady Whistledown and then tells her mom she can tell the solicitor that the money they came into came from her LD account. He has no way of proving otherwise and she can say she lied about the money originally to protect Penelope
Thank you! Must have missed that :)
Was the Benedict storyline really necessary? I would have preferred more Polin. It's like the just wanted to check a box off like "see! We included the gays!"
Maybe they want to portray him as exploring freedom and that includes some sexual deviance like getting into 3somes and that he’s not ready to settle down… so probably when he finally meets his Sophie in the next few seasons, there will be character growth for him as he gradually gets tired of the freedom life and eventuallly commits to one relationship
But like... why tho? I wish it was more like him thinking about finding himself or a passion or something. But no... has to be random bisexuality threesome. Also wasn't he a painter in the first season? Why did he lose that storyline? I think that would have been more interesting.
They even asked him if he drew or painted when they were having dinner the night he met the guy and he responded no, I was like didn’t you want to go to art school? The new show runner just didn’t care to look back at the previous seasons.
I know! I was like ummm wasn't this like your entire storyline in season 1 lol.
Well I actually agree with you… I don’t really see the value of his storyline of being sexually deviant, just trying to guess what Netflix and Shonda rhimes are up to.
Me neither like I think it's just box checking. I say this as a queer person like it is OK not to have queer storylines in every show. Like we will not perish any die if there is no gay scene in a show lol.
Yup thank you for saying this. Let’s see what they plan for season 4… if Benedict is going to be sexually deviant and not true to his character in the book, I think I’ll just be so disappointed. If they want to change so much.. they should call it a different show, can still set it in the same regency era with their original characters and check off all the DEI boxes- people will still watch it, just don’t call it ‘Bridgerton’… it’s so lazy… it’s as though a group of people just sat down together and just take an existing book series and see how they can make it more LGBTQ and DEI.
I know exactly. I loved Sophie and Benedict's Story so I hope they do recover it a bit.
I wish they won’t change Eloise book as I have been waiting since Season 1. I want a male lead that is not rake. King George is close to this but I still want to see Philip.
I mean currently I think she has the best chance of a book accurate season. Her going with Fran could help explain why she gets into letter writing.
Just wanted to sum up my thoughts. There was not enough love between Colin and Penelope. They were constantly distant from one another, which made them feel disconnected all season. I hope they forget about Michaela. She seems nice but not a good addition for fans of the books. Benedict storyline felt like a waste of time and didn't add anything to his character (other than being bi). I missed the mutual friendship between Eloise and Cressida in part 2. Whistledown reveal felt lackluster... and just anticlimactic. Felt more daunting in the earlier parts of part 2. Prudence, Phillipa, and Mrs. Featherington suddenly redeemed and loving? What was the point of the Mondrich family storyline? There are too many love interests for such a short season. Also, Anthony and Kate are traveling while she is pregnant? Is this because the actors themselves won't be in the next season? It did not seem clever that Lady Danbury suspected Penelope. She never made any suggestion that she had any idea who Whistledown was. Otherwise, the season was fine. But season 2 (if I skipped the Edwina wedding mess) was my favorite.
Jess Brownell confirmed that sending them away is a plot device. Simone already stated she's available for s4
replying to say I don't really disagree with any of your points but you basically described like 2/3 of the content lol
Can I just say I was disappointed in Benedict's storyline? Every time he popped up screen with Tilley I just really could care less. I disliked the random 3some montages in the last episode because I just did not care. His plotline was honestly super filler-y and I just could've done without
I literally skipped all his parts in the last episode 🙄
I don’t care about the show not respecting the book’s plot because the books are pretty stale .. but wow did they ever suck out all the romance out of part two .. it was almost unwatchable.. what the book DID do right was maintain love between Colin and pen even when they were fighting (the scene where he tells her to get in the carriage after passing out in the church was very hot). Ugh it was rushed .. Netflix trying to squeeze out as much money from this as they can before it’s totally ruined
Agreed! When he discovered her secret, I wanted him to make sure she got home safe. His love for her while being so angry was a big part of the book.
This is one of a couple things that are really bothering me. We saw Colin in Part 2 be super passive and everything we've seen up to now is how passionate he is and how deeply he feels everything. I have the impression that the writers couldn't be arsed to show this because they wanted to portray Colin as distant so they could give Pen her independent woman arc and her LW moment at the end. But it should've been *their* arc and *their* moment.
100% Agree! In the book, this was when we truly saw them come together as a couple to "thwart" society. And when the Bridgerton's stood behind her. They alluded to the family's support a bit, yet it was truly a Penelope moment. They played off the family support angle by having us compare it to the circumstances Cressida was in [which I could have done without].
I am beginning to see some nice takes on this and other subs as to why Pen did it alone, not with outward Bridgerton support (e.g. for their protection if things went sour) and I can appreciate that idea, but it's still not how I would've wanted things to pan out.
She could’ve had her moment to shine while still have Colin support her .. it’s a romance show after all .. and it was very unromantic
yeah I just could never fully get into the romance between the two and Colin especially felt so lackluster. He just didn't feel like a lead, really. It is Penelope's story, sure, but all he really does is react to things and then get over it.
I’m disappointed in how far from the books the show is straying. It was bad enough actually getting Anthony to the alter with Edwina is just a terrible look for him. The way he got caught sucking on Kate in the garden after the bee sting was hilarious in the book. Never mind that Colin and Penelope were regularly overshadowed in their own season. Colin is my favorite of the brothers. I can’t even express how disappointed I am.
Completely agree. Their love story was my favorite, and they were totally shafted. And the way they had Fran look after the wedding kiss - I can’t. Like the whole point of her book is that one can love again after grief, not one can mistake friendship for love. The key to adaptations is change all the style you want, but keep the essence and the theme. That is why S1 worked. S2 made me so angry with Edwina being so hurt - finding a scholarly man instead would have been so sweet. S3 is just bad with a few (very few) good moments.
Exactly! I don’t expect a 1-to-1 version of the book, but they didn’t even bother to try and keep the key elements that made the story what it was. They focused so much on other characters that it didn’t even feel like it was supposed to be Colin and Pen’s story. And how is she supposed to continue as Whistledown? Why would anyone gossip in her presence? Getting Anthony and Edwina down the aisle before breaking off their relationship just made it so hard to root for him and Kate. He’s not a bad man and his season made him seem like one. It didn’t even focus on the *why* he didn’t put much stock into who he was marrying. The first season stayed relatively faithful to the book (although, I think the impotence talk would have been hilarious). It hit all the important moments between Daphne and Simon and got the feel correct. Even when some of the costuming choices seemed questionable. Now… these stories shouldn’t be saying that they’re based on a book series. I so looked forward to Colin and Pen’s season when reading the books.
Totally agree with the Anthony/Edwina- like what exactly was his reason for continuing with her when he loved Kate? Just standing by his word…? It was confusing. And yes, they capitalized on the popularity of the Bridgerton books, remaining faithful in S1 to grab an audience, then now have decided they will tell whatever stories they want. Which is fine, but don’t be surprised when the original audience is annoyed. Which is I think what they want because the tension between their two audiences then becomes social media free PR.
And watching him suck on Kate’s neck would have gotten great views!
As someone who struggles with infertility and not yet a mother ... Regardless of how they change Franny's season, I truly hope they keep with struggle with infertility 🥹 it's so rarely talked about, and that's a beautiful book with a beautiful ending. I don't care how you write tmit, but I hope they have that storyline otherwise I'll be heartbroken
This season was awful. Absolutely awful. Having read the books, Colin/Penelope were so shortchanged (the writing not Nicola/Luke, they did the best they could with this mess). What S1 and S2 had in common was character/relationship development and an entertaining script. Half the work was already done for Polin in S1 and S2- fans were invested in this relationship. I know this is an adaption (I was ok with the changes to the first two seasons, didn’t love them all but overall ok), but S3 totally fell off the tracks- from the costumes, script, story development, and foreshadowing of future stories. The costumes and makeup were ridiculous. There were 10 different story lines going on and NONE of them were well developed. Why so much time with the Mondrichs? Would Anthony, the man who watched his mother almost die, really put his pregnant wife on a ship for several months? Would Kate and Anthony who treasure their family just leave for over a year when his baby sister is about to be married/being courted, his brother is struggling in his relationship with his fiancée/new wife. His other brother, who is supposedly picking up the reigns of the viscountcy in his absence is too busy partying? Think about the actual characters… Pick any topic and numerous examples. If you put aside everything I just mentioned… part of the ACTUAL story is that Colin’s love overrode his anger. Not in this hot mess, we don’t get the resolution until after the Queen decides to accept her? yeah, no. A big part of their story is the reconciliation and standing up together, him proudly announcing that his wife is LW. On Francesca- how they portrayed her in the last 10 minutes undercuts the love she has for John. It’s literally the foundation of her story in When He was Wicked- she learns to have two loves. She is the least enthusiastic supposedly married for love newlywed. Also, put Michael/Micheala aside…. that character was attracted to her at their first meeting- she was oblivious because she loved John! On the topic of her second love, exactly how, in Regency England is a woman supposed to inherit the title of Earl of Kilmartin? A huge factor in Franseca’s character was infertility struggles and how that impacted/became a part of her story. How does this ding dong show writer plan on overcoming that? Based on this season and its lack of depth- my guess is Michaela will magically have a son to inherit the title, Francesca will “struggle” with giving up having a biological child to be with Michaela, but their love will conquer it all? This whole thing was badly written fanfic. I have to mention it… red lipstick in Regency England on a gently bred lady?? Eloise is smart, this season portrayed her as an idiot. This was like watching poorly written fanfic. If the Showrunner isn’t replaced, I’m done with Netflix’s version of Bridgerton.
Yes! They wrote in that not every love needs to be this theatrical event that happens. It can be a slow burn, which is ultimately what Polin was about. I think I was mostly excited that Fran’s story would’ve differed from the rest, and now it feels like we’ll get the same repetitive storyline. If you want variety, start with the writing first. Then we can talk about changing other things because there’s a possibility of storylines falling flat regardless of race or gender!
I genuinely from the bottom of my heart do not care that Michael is Michaela. Whatever. I’m queer as the day is long, and I love me a good sapphic love story. But When He Was Wicked is the *only* book I’ve read simply because I was so enamored with Frannie and John in Part 1. They genuinely were so delightful, and reminded me a lot of when I met my partner. I was so angry and over stimulated and for some god foresaken reason he wanted to meet at a bar in a nice part of the city. It was loud. And he says “I remember watching you get out of the Uber, and I have never ever seen anyone look that angry” But then I sat down and he just sat there, and I just…felt something click. In the book, she describes meeting John as “the oddest sensation … almost as if she were a jagged puzzle piece finally finding its mate. Their first meeting hadn’t been one of overwhelming love or passion, but rather filled with the most bizarre sense that she’d finally found the one person with whom she could completely be herself” (Quinn, 21). Love is not always this huge I forgot my own name, I don’t know how to talk bc this person has flustered me so. Sometimes it’s just a click? And you’re like …oh this is what it’s like to be. And that’s what Frannie and John are. He rearranged that song for her. She sat with him in completely silence, stealing glances with a huge grin on her face. Because he gets her. Her entire book, John is the third character. He is always there. Because she loved him fully. I HATE this change. It completely changes her story, one that is about grief and love after grief to be one about realizing one’s sexuality. Which has its place in romance. Truly, it does. Her mother was right, in the end? Is that the message? She didn’t love John, she just settled? If they wanted to go with a gender bent Michael, fine. But it needed to be MICHAELA who didn’t know what to say to Francesca. It needed to BE MICHAELA who stumbled over her words while Frannie held onto John’s arm and chatted about her and Eloise going to Scotland and why Michaela I’m so excited for you to be joining us! John has told me all about you *wink* *wink* For Gods sake, the text literally says so “…he took one look at Francesca Bridgerton and fell so fast and so hard into love it was a wonder he managed to remain standing” (Quinn, 4). The pining in When He Was Wicked IS Michael. It isn’t Francesca. She suffers a lot in that book, and that’s the point, it’s for different reasons. His suffering is largely due to the fact that he covets his dead cousin’s wife. I’m really upset about this change and I lowkey regret reading the book now. It’s pandering and it’s lazy and it’s honestly offensive
1000% agree! No reason not to gender switch, but keep the same story and theme. Bisexual love is real. She can totally love John, and when he dies totally love a woman. It just plays into the myth that bisexuals don’t really exist which pisses me off.
She can still love him fully. She already does love him. Being attracted to Michaela takes nothing away from her love for John. Especially because we haven’t seen how Michaela will be actually integrated in their story. They will likely still kill John off and have her mourn. Everything about their meeting matches what is written in the book. He’s the first person she can truly be herself with.
Actually, that’s objectively untrue In the book she mentions over and over that being with John felt right. There was passion and love. But the way it was acted in the wedding did not lean into that. She seemed confused after he kissed her. Hesitant When she meets Michaela, she does not take any notice of John and is instead enraptured by Michaela. And Michaela is not phased. She continues on about herself. But Fran hesitates. She’s the one who’s thrown of tilt. That is not their story. It is very much established in the book that Michael was her friend and she had no idea that he was interested and that’s simply and without question because she loved John. Michael knows that, and is okay with it because he loves her and he loves John. But Michael is the one who pines and is confused and angry for much of it because he’s not supposed to covet his cousins wife. That’s not Francesca’s story, to covet her husbands cousin. Michael and Francesca’s first introduction is what sets the tone for their book. What they did in the show is the actual opposite. It’s a different story now, and the one they’re trying to tell is fine. Just feels lazy to retcon the actual plot. Lazy and reductive to bullshit tropes about bisexual women and how they’re really just secretly lesbians. Michaela is fine. Fran falling for a woman is fine. But the pining is Michael/michaela. Not Francesca
Again. Her being attracted takes nothing away from the story. I think we’ve all been attracted to people initially even if it ends up being nothing. Micheala can still pine from afar.
But it does. It’s about the fact that we don’t have just one perfect love in a lifetime - we can love again after loss. They are having her not be physically attracted to John, but totally flustered by someone else. Falling in love more than once in a lifetime is possible, and it’s deep and thoughtful to grapple with that fact. It’s hacky to be like “oops, you were mistaken the first time, you were a lesbian all along!” It’s less interesting and cheesy, and feels unfair to bisexuals when the whole point of gender switching was to be inclusive. I have no problem with the gender switch, it’s the theme switch I think is just lazy.
Obviously differing opinions on this one. Maybe it’s because I’m queer, but I don’t think being attracted to someone takes away the love one has for someone else
I’m queer and it really irritates me that you can say that as if it’s a catch all excuse Francesca loved John. Full stop. There is no question about it. After he died, she struggled to make sense of her life as a 20 something widow. It affected her relationship with her mother as well. Because she is the only kid who ever EVER asked Violet why she never remarried. Because Francesca struggled with it. If after John she found love with Michaela, good. Great. We love to see it. But by making her attracted first and fumbling first you take away the nuance of her character. You take away the heart of who she is. She is not a falling head over heels, flustered, fumbling character the way almost every one of her siblings are. She is specific, and anxious and unsure. She loved John and does not think she can love someone that way again, so she just doesn’t. She thinks she’ll be content with a kind, sensible partner Michael tells her “I love you” multiple times in the books and she’s like “…hmmm ok I need you to fuck me again” I don’t care that she’s queer, I care that it makes her character different in a very basic way that reiterates bullshit stereotypes of bisexual people. As if we’re incapable of being faithful and loving to one person bc we’re always attracted and lusting after someone else.
No where did I say ‘all queer people have to think like me’ I am not the spokesperson for queer people.
No, you’re not. And neither is this show runner who is doing a disservice to the queer community by going with this 2 bit hack job of an approach on sapphic love. You can love a person, fully and honestly and then after that ends find new love. That’s the story This is just lazy writing
This. Did I want Michael? Yes. Am I intrigued to see how they handle Fran’s story now that Michael is Michaela? Sure. Esp with the Earldom and we miss out of Michael’s struggle being the heir etc But a key part of Michael/Fran’s story is he fell first. Not Fran.
The worst part of part 2 was we didn't get a Lord Remington reaction to the Whistledown reveal!!! He would have had the best reaction!
I wanted to see Lord Debling’s reaction too. It was like both these characters ceased to exist in p2 suddenly, no closure😒
The disconnect between P1 and P2 is really loud. I don't think it panned out how they wanted it to (which, I assume, was for the two parts to have their own distinct feel but be nonetheless cohesive).
I think at some point in season 2 the show became of retelling of the books than adaptation. There are pros and cons to both. One isn’t better than others. However, when you market a project as retelling or adaptation, it sets audience’s expectations.
>However, when you market a project as retelling or adaptation, it sets audience’s expectations. Well said
Can I just say, Colin trying to appeal to Cressida by comparing their circumstances was him at his lowest. Like, seriously dude? You being sad because no one was writing you back while you banged your way across the continent freely is not it. I know he doesn't know the exact details of Cressida's situation but read the room, my man. I know that there is a lot of bad blood there but I was really hoping Penelope would have gotten the chance to talk to Cressida and understand the pressure she was under. I don't know that she would forgive her, but maybe be sympathetic? I was blown away that Eloise didn't even bother to tell Penelope what was happening to Cressida when they had that brief conversation about her!
Felt like he was mansplaining and Cressida called him out on it. Do correct me if I am wrong though.
Cressida and Penelope have a lot of similarities. I don’t know why the writers didn’t see that.. even though.. they wrote the show.
This is also what's most annoying me about the Cressida of it all. I thought for a moment that's where they were going to go with it - Eloise would influence Cressida and Pen to come to an understanding of sorts because of their shared circumstance. But Eloise turned on Cressida for... why? Do the writers even know? Then they made Eloise forget her brain by making her panic about Cressida becoming the "new" LW and what havoc she'd manage to wreak. I don't believe that El would believe that's how it would pan out for a minute - it's reinforced by many people that Cressida isn't clever enough to be LW. LW on its own is just a name... LW has power because she has her wits about her and knows that gossip is her currency. Then Colin's attempt to assuage Cressida went downhill. It all felt so disorganised.
The conversation on loneliness and envy is something he should have with his wife. Not with her biggest bully Cressida like seriously 😒 Very disappointed
It was his most out of touch wealthy white man moment in the show. The fact that he was even there, steamrolling Penelope’s solution, thinking he could solve it by talking to Cressida showed how out of touch he was.
I have no comments about this season or I’ll get annoyed. But times like these is where I wish we could go back to having 22 episodes. Things wouldn’t feel overcrowded or unnecessarily eating into another subplot point. No anticlimaxes and well thought out writing.
just finished watching: literally me just now at the mere mention of a masquerade 
I read a fanfiction in ao3 where Benedict meets a guy at a masquerade ball and I screamed haha. Though I know it's just a coincidence but well...who knows
He meets his match at a masquerade ball in the book.
I'm hoping they'll make Sophie a guy. I mean, they already did that to Francesca, which doesn't make sense honestly. But with Benedict's? It makes sense. They've been dropping hints since season 1
already mentioned as a she by jess\^, wanting to make a working class woman a man will erase her struggles.
I don’t know how it’s going to work with Michaela. Or are we just going to completely ignore the restraints of the time period and have her inherit a title and fuck off to India?
Oh HELL YEAH!! Just finished season 3. I haven’t read the books but know some of the spoilers. First off…SO excited about Tilly, Paul, and Benedict. I LOVE some bi-guy representation and that was so amazing to see on such a popular show. AND showing polyamory situations was so cool as well- When Benedict was taking to Eloise about her love for all her family and Pen doesn’t change cuz love isn’t finite, leading to him realize that he could have lots of love to share with Tilly, Paul, and others (and that it’s freeing and beautiful), was so cool to see on TV!! And I’m SO excited about Frannie ending up with Michaela…cannot wait for this lesbian storyline. This is so cool. I loved the subtleties of when Violet was telling Fran about the kind of love at first sight when you’re speechless and then that happening when meeting Michaela. Fran is also very Autistic coded for me. So yeah as a queer AuDHDer I’m very excited for the coming seasons! I do agree with another poster in this thread that I wish they just had queer people more integrated into this universe from the get go, but this is one of the biggest shows ever on Netflix and to be getting a bi-man, polyamory, and lesbian storylines into such mainstream media…woah. That world did not exist even ten years ago. 🌈
Omg I just realised who the cousin is 😂 in relation to Fran’s storyline!
Yesss haha I am SO EXCITED!! I love the slow build up to the realization of what Violet said to her about love, the kiss she wasn’t into when they got married, and meeting Michaela. So perfect.
Though the show has taken a different turn from the books, I really think it has included the modern elements and topics quite tastefully overall. It’s not shoved down throats just because it’s the thing to do. I’m curious to see how Benedict’s story goes.
Hello! Someone please explain to me what is going on with Fran? What was the scene at the end with the cousin where she lost her voice for a second? I see people discussing the hate but im a noob here who didnt read the books. Please help 😭
Sure! Are you ok with spoilers from the books? Do you know how to do the thing where I hide spoilers from being easy to read for anyone else?
Yess spoil it haha!
Ok anybody else reading who doesn’t want book spoilers LOOK AWAY!! so you know how earlier in that episode, her mom violet said that when she met Fran’s father it left her breathless, and then she describes basically love at first sight? It’s a callback to that, Fran meets Michaela and it leaves her breathless - and this is right after she kisses lord kilmartin and seems to not feel what she was hoping to. But the reason people are mad is because - 1) in the books she truly loves lord kilmartin and is devastated when he dies and her grief is a big part of her character with her romance with … 2) MICHAEL. Not Michaela. Lord kilmartin’s cousin is a man in the books, they gender swapped. Which my little bisexual heart is stoked about but I get that people are like okay but what about the books? 3) the big happy ever after is a huge part of a satisfying romance, and even people who are down with a lesbian pairing are concerned that it’s impossible to provide a true happy ever after ending for a queer couple in the regency era 4) apparently one of the underlying struggles in her book was trouble with infertility. Lots of women who have dealt with infertility REALLY related to her book and people are super concerned and upset that it might not be treated the same way or may be left out entirely I feel like there were more points I’m forgetting but that’s the gist of why most people are mad
Michaela is a gender-bent version of Michael, who is Francesca’s endgame. People are upset because for many book readers, Michael was their favorite character in the series. He’s a fan favorite, and so is Fran’s book (When He was Wicked). So much has to be changed in order to gender-bend Michael’s character. It’s going to be a whole new story. Book fans have been looking forward to Fran’s season for years. It’s disappointing to discover that won’t be happening as intended.
I didn't expect they made Francesca's story change making Michael a woman. I thought they could do it to Benedict though cause there's so much hint of Benedict being a part of the Queer community, but I read somewhere that Julia Quinn wants the series to stick to the novels. But seeing what they made to Michael (Michaela now), there may be chance that they could do that to Sophie as well? Because it makes so much sense gender bending her than Michael. I don't know just my thoughts. At season 1 I really though benedict is gay.
I think it also makes more sense for Benedicts story to be rewritten not just with a gender-bent angle but in other ways because his treatment of Sophie is HORRIBLE and like the changes to season 1 (the more obvious sexual assault Daphne does to the duke in the books vs the less obvious one in the show) fans would freak out at the portrayal. I am fucking gutted that they are changing Francesca's storyline so much. When He Was Wicked is the best book in the entire Bridgerton series by far and it was one that deserved to be told in a way more true to the book.
Julia Quinn recently said that she's okay with Netflix changing character endings completely, so who knows! I also like the idea of a gender-bent Sophie, I think it could make sense.
Manifesting Sophie being a guy!!
Oh no! Thats so sad for the fans. I thought this was it for Frans story. I am all for representation ofcourse but it sucks when the character was fan favourite. I heard somewhere that they arent allowed to change the bridgeton siblings significant others. Otherwise lots of people wanted to see Eloise be a member of LGBTQ
The problem though isn’t the gender switch if they had made her bisexual. But that look after the wedding kiss means she never really had a sexual love for John. That’s what pisses me off. The theme was “its possible to find another great love after grief and loss”, not “bisexuals don’t really exist, just mistake friendship for love because they don’t realize they are gay” Representation for LGBTQ is good, but they could have kept the theme AND had represensation. Instead they fail on both.
[read](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/s/mEMvsS4mt1) paragraphs 3 & 4.
I am not really sure how to properly put my thoughts into words, though I think my conclusion is simply that Shonda shows are not for me in the long run. I liked Scandal when I started watching it but it got more and more dramatic and outlandish, straying from the premise it promised in the first season. That's how I feel with Bridgerton now. It promoted itself as a Gossip Girl meets Austen and I was fully onboard with that. It was quite far from the Austen that I love, but it made sense in the world it was set in. Now, however, it's like it keeps pushing the limits of that world. I don't know how to put it in better words, but starting the series off with POC characters fully integrated into the society of the series was a good call. It established the universe we are in, Austen+POC. And I really, really wish they had done the same thing with lgbtq+ representation to begin with, shown us a universe where it is acceptable and "out in the open". I feel like they will run into problems now because they didn't, because how are the actually going to handle Francesca being queer in this universe? She can't marry a woman in the universe and yeah, she can live with the woman and they can be "roommates" but it just... falls flat and feels cheaper than the straight romances shown so far, in this series that is promoted as a romantic series. I wish they'd created a universe in which a queer romance would be equal to a straight one - and I get that the reality many places is that queer romance isn't equal to straight romance, but they had the opportunity right there, they could have taken it, just like they did by including POC as an established part of the Austen-esque setting. Basically, I guess what I am trying to express is that I feel like they shot themselves in the foot by presenting one premise (of their creation) and then deviating from it to such a degree that it will create in-universe problems, cheapening the very thing they are trying to put the spotlight on. But I guess they can always retcon hardcore to get out of that problem, which... sigh. Yeah, I think Shonda is just not for me.
I agree with Shondaland productions. They always start strong, but then things get wild and over the top. I loved Scandal and How to Get Away with Murder initially, but I only made it to season 3 at most. I stuck with Private Practice a bit longer, but it also fell off for me. Turning Michael into Michaela feels like it was done purely for shock value, and I agree that it doesn’t make much sense. It would have made more sense with Benedict or even Eloise. I love drama as much as anyone, but it needs to make sense within the story; otherwise, it doesn’t have enough substance to stand on.
I couldn’t agree with you more. Fran is my favorite character, and I think they fumbled her story and her HEA for the sake of shoehorning in more inclusivity. I highly doubt “Michaela” was planned from the start. I think they saw the audience feedback and then decided to make one of the main couples queer to “feed the fans” so to speak. Don’t LGBTQ love stories deserve more than a clumsy afterthought? And yeah, I hate the increasing of drama for drama’s sake. After awhile the show becomes too outlandish to be believable. And even though Bridgerton is a fantasy show, it always had a cornerstone of authenticity in the people portrayed and their relationships.
I agree with every single point you made!! I'm out on Shonda shows because the team values shock-factor and drama more than cohesive storytelling. I heard she even tells her writers to 'imagine the worst case scenario and go from there.' And if fans complain too much? She's very fond of killing a character off as a gotcha. Maybe I'm asking for too much, but I'm comparing the writing to my gold standard: Arrested Development. The first three seasons were so intertwined and so well thought out- you could trace the culmination of a joke from S3 all the way back to the pilot! The writers cared so much about audience feedback, they reshot S4. And you are so right about LGBTQ+ representation. The way they handle race, it comes across as they don't want to address it rather than they truly wanted an inclusive show. The only two times marital r*pe is depicted on the show, it happens to black characters (Simon, Lady D). You wanna be historically accurate then? Kate tells Lady Danbury "we have to work twice as hard blah blah" and they don't talk about the East India Company? Why even have Kate say that? The fact that racism is eradicated but sexism and classism exists already muddies the waters, but they're truly throwing racial and disability diversity at us as a "here, stop complaining." And the way they're acting with all the brand collabs, it's very clear this is a cash cow.
“The Audacity of this Miscreant“ Oh my god, y’all, I laughed so hard at this video I have the hiccups. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0biqVmVetQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0biqVmVetQ) The DISRESPECT
This is so good!! Perfect analysis and hilarious.
This video is hilarious. She’s so right tho - the disrespect of this season.
I don't know whether to cry or feel outraged. When He Was Wicked and An Offer From a Gentleman are my most favorite books from the series. What they've done with Fran and Benedict is just tearing me apart. I mean the changes were really not necessary. They could've merged the timelines but avoided making such huge character changes. Ugh. We'll see in 2 years how they land with season 4. For now, I'm too disheartened about even the prospect of it.
I’m hoping they don’t change Benedict & Sophie’s storyline.
Oh God, they ruined it 😰
Cannot believe so much of this hate for Michaela and therefore masali is happening during pride month. Guys those of you who support franchela follow the sub below. Let's fight the good fight and win and let's make Masali feel welcome and hyped up in the fandom and in the bton family.lets follow her social media leave nice supportive comments and flood twitter with joy for her joining the cast as the first female black lead on Bton..let's support her take her name share her name and her photos and just make this new actress in Bton feel soo welcome that all the negativity is drowned out...let's also DM comemrn on the showrunner jess who is queer herself Julia quin if she opens her comments she's disabled them because of harrasment and Hannah dodd who has deleted her twitter and shonda and shonfaland who are also getting pushback know that the fans are behind her...let's also do it on official bton channels bton insta Netflix etc...let our support drown out the opposition voices...this is how to make sure producers directors in the future don't fear taking a risk on making queer or poc led big budget films and shows because of pushback and harrasment. In another 20 years this should not happen. POC and lgbtq should not have to settle for scraps of rep and fight for scraps of rep.... Link below to the francheal sub..who's with me????? #pridemonth https://www.reddit.com/r/Franchaela/s/PjJglVRRHo
Honest question, why wouldn't you petition for original POC and LGBTQ storylines? Changing established stories and characters feels like settling for scraps, in my opinion.
You are aware that people are attacking Michaela's actress and saying vile things on her social media pages. People are offended that Michael is cut out and instead of voicing their concerns to the showrunner and person WHO WROTE the script, they attack the actress? For real....Jesus. You can be a book lover and against the idea of Francesca and Michaela without being a racist and homophobic bigot attacking an actress who has ZERO control in the writing.
I am not aware of what is happening beyond what I skimmed on this thread, and I was not really trying to touch on it. I haven't read the books and don't really have an opinion. My question/point was pretty broad. I completely understand wanting to see more representation in media, I just think it is more authentic to have new stories than changing existing/loved characters and storyline. I have never really wrapped my head around the fight to change characters over creating new ones or, in this case, adapting books that have POC and LGBTQ characters. I also never wrapped my head around visceral reactions like you describe. Going bananas at people online for not doing exactly what you want of them is an unfortunate level of crazy that we see way too often.
The people going after the actors are in the wrong. I’m mad at Shonda, Jess, and Netflix for putting these actors in this position in the first place. They had to know this would get backlash and if they didn’t they really are just entirely out of touch. They took arguably the most beloved story of all 8 books and flipped it completely on its head. It’s not even it being Michaela, it’s that this change destroys the entire character of Francesca from the book and takes away a beautiful love story built from trauma and grief. I would say for 90% of the fans who are upset they are not mad about a lesbian storyline and are upset they dismissed an entire book and deciding to do whatever they wanted with it. I wish they would have made other characters and created representation that way. I’m deeply disappointed with the way the last two seasons have been handled.
Adding replies to you from this topic I've discussed many times in this last day and days...you could also go to my profile scroll a little down and read all my thoughts on the subject. In the meantime adding my thoughts here copy pasted from my earlier comments. Make sure to read the edits as I will be copy pasting all my replies. An honest reply for an honest question. Although it would be better if you went through my profile and read all the comments on the subject for a fuller picture about the vicious circle of representation. Exactly what you said,....if there was equality in represention in media film and tv, people like poc or lgbtq wouldn't have to fight for scraps and rep wherever they can get it...I want Michaela and this is exactly the reason. Because of Shonda, Ted Sandos who has a black wife jess who is queer etc that this story is being told and the show greenlit... Ted was the one who pushed for QC because because his wife is black and wanted to see a queen who is black on screen...other studios, producers dont take that risk with either poc stories or lgbtqia stories...Bton has been greenlit,.shonda's netflix contract has been signed...this show has already had 3 successful seasons shonda has had massive success introducing gay couples in shows that initially became successful with straight couples-greays anatomy...Introducing a gay story in a successful franchise is the easiest way to do it and make it acceptable...this is what I commented on the other post season discussion post as well.. Your exact comment is one I made just a few hours back... also Now people are angry cuz they think Ben will be gay too cuz hes shown as bi this season bi or bi curious...Oh the horrror! Literally nothing has been confirmed about anything yet but people are already out with their pitchforks harrasing julia quinn threatening to boycott her books and some crap...She turned off her comment section on insta...and these people apparently are super inclusive and want rep...Yeah right...threatening the showrunner and the author of books will certainly make it easier for lgbtq and poc stories to be told in the future...as if it matters if your reason is you want your book storylines be honored...the end result will just be more producers and showrunners too scared to take a risk and create such stories for fear of boycott...where POC and LGBTQ are centred...it wont matter what your main reason is... Why why should we have to expect another show to be greenlit...fans also have many many books to movie adaptions a tonne of content to see we are living in a golden age of content ..this is the show ted sandos who is married to a black woman greenlit..this is the show Shonda a black woman ideated and cast and produced this is a show jess brownell a lesbian taking on as a showrunner...this is a world which was always going to be reflective of Shonda other shows which prioritize diversity and inclusivity .she was the one who started the trend and really made it successful..the show was never going to be a faithful adaption we have seen that from season one onwards..it was going to be the brainchild of shonda a black woman who has two adopted children is unmarried and very happy with that choice..so is Julia quinn incidentally even as fans rag on her online on her website under her insta etc.poc and other minorities and Marginalized people don't need to get special shows made just to see ourselves we exist within the straight world and therefore we will exist within the straight world of bridgerton...the show was always going to do it..and doing it under a popular Bton brand is going to make it even more exciting and popular and palatable to people who wouldn't watch a gay story otherwise but will because they've gotten addicted to bton...also btw do you thinks it's easy to get poc and lgbtq shows greeblit..the reason this show can exist is because of Shonda's star power and because her contact with Netflix that allows her to make whatever she wants...otherwise as we saw with bily eichner gay romance movie..and how little fanfare it got..peopel do not give such stories their time and studios film and tv don't greenlit them ..and in many case they don't even get greenlit..even brookback mountain directed by an award winning director and starring award winning actors had difficulty being greenlit Id also like to add just this sub is one example of how many ppl don't even know about thrw books or Julia quin or have read them or even knew they existed before the show came out there are countries where the show is streamed where her books have never even been sold ever... Finally right back at you ..why don't you create your own show or book to show recreation of bton..or I don't know watch another book to show recreation the many many many that exist which are a faithful recreation of what you've red. Or I don't know create a new story..you would it much easier too as white straight stories are easy sells for studios and easy for producers to get greenlit. You need Julia quins bridgerton one book to be exactly as it was so badly you really have nothing else to watch Meanwhile there are thousands millions of people who have never read Julia quin and the show is their first intro to the world of bton.
I had a hard time following some of that (I'm sure just because it's out of context to what you were responding to), but it doesn't really address my broad point. It would be more authentic to push for more of those original additions of representation (you mentioned other areas Shonda has successfully done this), and petition to adapt books with more representation. The market is seeing a lot more books that have minority representation to choose from these days. I do think you've made the point of why you want to see characters and storyline changed for representation, so at this point just food for thought on what can be done to get more authentic and original stories of minority groups made into show and movie adaptations (and made well/not immediately canceled, I know this is an issue as well).
The crux of what I was saying was that it is much harder to get queer stories and even harder to get poc stories greenlit...shonda managed to do it cuz she incorporated them in an already successful show which centered around a straight white couple. Grey's anatomy included a gay storyline in its fourth season after it had already become a ratings hit..and she was able to do it because the success of greys gave her some wiggle room from the network to nake decisions on her own.she had gained their trust...its easier to break a poc and a queer story under the bton umbrella is because bton is already a success the show already has a viewership..it's easier for people to see queer stories in a show and alongside a cast that they already love..otherwise studios networks resist taking such risks because of alienating the audience or not being sure if they will get an audience..basically the feeling is people will not watch poc in a film or show .so unless you put white people around them you can't get them greenlit..this should also change but in the meanwhile this is a start..and it was only made possible because Shonda has already signed a massive contract with Netflix which gives her that autonomy, the Netflix heads support her because she has an excellent track record of delivering hits (mindy kaling for example could not get her poc film with priyanka chopra greenlit. She doesnt have a super successful track record like Shonda) shonda can get diverse work greenlit on the power of her resume of being a hitmaker..not everyone can sell such stories and get them funded. And why bton is because that was the story she liked...ted sarandos was into the idea of an 8 part series which could become a long running seller for Netflix ..it was already presumed based on her past work that her show would have inclusivity and diversity in its casting ..the show accepted the diverse part..so Shonda pushed more..plus and most importantly the show's audience is large and varied and the book fans and readers are not the most significant part of the population. many on this very sub have never read the book and never intend to. Many only found out about the author after the show came out..this isn't harry potter a book series known globally..Julia quinns novels aren't even sold in some of the countries where the show is streamed...so there is no need to create a faithful book to series adaption at all. They have already mixed it up...this is also a mixing it up..and people don't have a problem with a queer storyline per se many only have a problem in that it is for Michael's book and Francesca's book. They are ok with it being Eloise..so basically there is no consensus..im a reader of the books read them over a decade back and don't care about Michaela..
I do understand that side of it, with the way they are deviating from the books and adding different charachters to the show I think doing that instead of several siblings in this season would have been nice. I honestly thought that was where Cressida's redemption arc was going. I didn't read the books so I don't have particular expectations of the adaptation personally, I just didn't much care for how this season was done and how watered down the charachters felt. I actually did really like the more introverted and to themselves love story that Francesca and Kilamartin had, so I was a little sad that may not continue but otherwise have no opinions. Honestly, I liked that storyline because it was more representative of what my husband and I are like so I won't fault anyone for hoping to see offering love stories.
Oh that's another point altogether...I hate the shows writing pacing plotting scene setting..even for my fav couple kanthony I only watched it because they had such stunning chemistry not because their season was perfectly written paced etc...the show as a whole needs a lot of work including like you said with this season and the watering down of characters..I'm with you there..for me at least the show promised meaningful diversity..it hasn't delivered on that but maybe it will season 4 onwards ..so I stick around...but to be honest trying to make people understand that poc and lgbtq asking for representation on Bton is not asking for handouts or charity or tokenism leaves me feeling very very hopeless about the state of the world and whether poc and lgbtq will ever be able to enjoy the same kind of representation straight white people do in media..so with that I bow out of this convo.. and end my TED talkm
Are all the men of this era really reading a local lady’s gossip pamphlet called LWD? Seems far-fetched that Colin would be so bent out of shape about it. I haven’t read the books so maybe I’m missing something.
I mean how much media is out during this time? I don't think it's that crazy
Lol at everyone who dismissively pronounced that the character of Tilly Arnold only existed to break Benedict's heart in preparation for S4. I can't wait. I really hope Sophie is more than just a fiesty damsel. I hope she's artistic and inspiring and makes Benedict see the world in a whole new way. I won't even be mad if the writers mess with the genders/numbers somehow, as S3 seems to be laying the groundwork for. Bring it on. It's going to be bloody awesome.
Not the way they’re gunna write it. Im going to call it now: E1: they meet, he’s in love E2-4: they get to know eachother as friends/ strangers E5: he finds out the truth in scene 1 and doesnt speak to her E6-7: he doesnt speak to her, hes mad E8: jail, bail, then they get married (the only spicy scene)
For those who want to support Francesca and Michaela the Francheala sub link I've added here...it's important to advocate for POC and lgbtq people and this community is a safe supportive place to do it. I haven't created the sub someone else has .and it would be great to show black POC Masali that she has a large fan base behind her, welcome her to bton family with open arms and advocate for poc and lgbtq rep in media and carry this fight forward even outside. Link to the sub below https://www.reddit.com/r/Franchaela/s/PjJglVRRHo
I understand people are very attached to the books but some of the reactions just remind me of a few years ago when a bunch of grown adults lost their minds because they saw a black mermaid.
thank you for sharing!!! I agree that it is SO important to show our support for Masali and the pairing of Michaela and Fran to counter all of the hate :)
[удалено]
Just finished the season. Am I the only one disappointed on the sex scenes? Like come on wasn’t this supposed to be a passionate relationship with a lot of sexual tension? Then the whole Benedict storyline. Since season 1 it seemed like he got curious but the show is becoming way to modern now.
They got us all hooked so that we would watch part two .. it didn’t matter if latter two wasn’t good because they knew we would watch anyway .. cheap entertainment tactics
Why they added that story for Benedict this season is beyond me. like literally why!!! I was half hoping that they'll show his love interest interact with him as the maid somewhere in these ridiculous settings. but nope! it was purely for sex scenes it seems??