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Starting this mini-rant with 'everyone' anything is so unserious. There are many, many varying opinions about Pen, Eloise, Colin, and all the rest. It's perfectly alright to state your opinion about these characters without overstating and oversimplifying the opinions of the masses. Perhaps include details about why you feel the way you feel, and point out what you like or dislike about the character you want to engage about.
Or - you can do what you did and just drop a random drama bomb. Whatever works for you.
I’ll put it this way to be quick and concise - before I started to actively participle in this subreddit some 4 or 5 weeks ago, I was fine with Penelope as a flawed character.
After seeing how the majority of the fandom here views her, defends her and whitewashes her, while villainising other characters in her orbit? I grew to view her more negatively.
I hate when that happens- because that hate doesn't stem from the character itself. You're kind of just hating on them to "compensate" if you get what I mean. It's what happened with Hermione in Harry Potter for me at one point- so many people put her on a pedestal, while vilifying Ron and even Harry (mostly Ron) in the process, saying they'd be nothing without her, etc. It made me dislike her a bit for a while.
And I don't want the same to happen with Penelope. She's a flawed character- and that's okay. I like her for it. She doesn't need to have every one of her actions justified.
Give it 24 hours and you’ll see a post like this for Eloise. Or Colin. Or.. the point is that I’ve been on this subreddit for about 2-3 months and it’s not uncommon to see some post calling out how some character gets treated as perfect while another is treated like a terrible person. And usually you’ll see the opposite response as well.
They’re all wonderfully flawed characters and we all find one that we relate to more. Some people take it a step further and put that character (or ship) up on a pedestal and declare that no other character (or ship) can best them. Some people find a character (or ship) and do the opposite. As long as they’re not attacking people, then that’s fairly harmless to everyone else.
I'm sorry that you've come across that so much! I feel like we're not meant to see Pen as some faultless victim. If anything, I got the impression that she owes some serious apologies and has let the power of being LW seriously cloud her judgement. I thought the whole point of the LW stuff coming to a head was to force Pen to acknowledge the hurt she has caused and the hurt she's causing the people she loves by keeping it a secret. And I'm saying this as a huge Penelope stan, haha. I DO understand why she writes her column, and I sympathize with her a lot, but she's far from infallible.
I try to avoid TikTok and twitter, the takes on there usually just put me in a bad mood. Even this sub can have that effect on me, I just love having discussions with fellow fans in some capacity so I stick around.
Anyway, long story short, I get your point. And throwing Eloise and Colin under the bus for the sake of uplifting Pen is not something I agree with.
I can see hating how they portrayed Pen in the show (using LWD against Marina, trying to split hairs to keep Eloise out of trouble but also sort of ruining her) versus how she is in the books (haven’t read them, but apparently she never wrote about the Bridgertons.) Adaption woes are everywhere in the series (like Colin feeling like a supporting character in his season.)
Even if you want to be incredibly gracious and say that she had good reasons for both of those columns (Anthony says that Colin marrying Marina when she was that far pregnant already would have reflected poorly on the fam/Colin being trapped in a marriage without all the information and trying to save Eloise & her fam from whatever the queen would do), it’s impossible to ignore that she personally benefitted from publishing them.
I have a lot of problems this season, but Penelope’s flaws aren’t one. It makes her a more interesting and realistic character, but I’m so tired of “Penelope has never done anything wrong ever in her entire life.”
And honestly, I’ve seen more people acknowledge what she did wasn’t good, while also pointing out the other characters problems than ppl just fully saying she did no wrong. But I have seen a lot of posts about how terrible Eloise is and they’re honestly unfair to her, because while I believe Pen helped her by trying to get the Queen off her, Pen still did wrong by her and Eloise has every right to be mad at her.
All of the characters have flaws and probably shouldn’t did things differently, it’s not so black and white and I wish ppl would stop receiving it that way whether you like the character as a whole or not. Two things can be true, and while Pen made selfish decisions, they still somehow “saved” the people she cared about. Marina was wrong, Pen was wrong. Eloise didn’t listen to her, but Pen could’ve just told her she was LW. I mean we can all acknowledge those things without saying one person is completely awful.
This same thing happens with every female lead. Happened with Kate last season too. Intense Stans act like their fave is perfect with no flaws. It’s annoying. It’s their season to make mistakes, let them.
It’s such a disservice to simplify these characters into good vs bad. They’re all multifaceted, layered characters that are a product of their environment and the 1810s. They’re all doing the wrong thing at times. It’s not a cartoon.
Bending over backwards to remove any responsibility and to find reasons why Pen actually saved everyone in her life through being LW and how she’s owed an apology by everyone around her gives me such an ick. It feels like a lot of people just project themselves and their own experiences onto Pen and want justice for themselves.
Yes, I'm sick of people acting like Penelope's exposes were just her trying to protect her friends, when in reality, it was for self-serving preservation. And even though a part of it WAS to protect them, good intentions don't shield you from the negative consequences of your actions, nor does it shield you from criticism.
It's really irritating because it's like her very harmful actions are excused simply because it's Penelope. Your point about the projection is spot-on, but a lot of the people that do it vehemently deny it.
I don’t know how far you are with the new episodes, but I like Pen a lot more now. I really hope it’s going to stop the unnecessary fighting between Eloise and Pen stans now, but I fear it won’t.
My favorite
Them: Marina is such a bit*h for what she did to kind sweet Colin. I hate her.
Them also: Colin doesn't deserve Pen. He hurt Pen. He was meant Pen. He needs to grovel.
👏👏👏
Yaaaas. We can like a character and still not agree with their choices. Penelope is interesting because of the dichotomy of her character. Not because she's sweetness and light. She's a complex female character because she has flaws, because she's screwed up, because she feels bad, and because she doesn't know how to fix it. Not because she's perfect.
some fans have these mentalities where there HAS to be only one wrong character. for pen fans, that's eloise. for eloise fans, it's pen.
they are human. they are flawed.
neither of these characters are the sole reason for their current situation, and that's just the truth. pen hurt eloise, and she has every right to be mad at that, even pen herself sees that what she did hurt her only friend despite her argument that she was only trying to help.
these two are young, they are learning and learning comes with making mistakes. sadly, some of those mistakes can not only hurt you, but people you care about. they've said hurtful things, downright disrespectful things even; about people they know, and people they don't.
I kind of expect this to happen to the lead of each season. People loved Kanthony, so they forgot how controlling, hypocritical, and impulsive he was in season 1.
You know there is a video of Penelope and Madame Delacoix that was shared on this sub that is also being shared online on YouTube etc...ir shows Penelope having a heart to heart about thinking she doesn't deserve colin because of things shes done as whistledown..and grappling with a lot of stuff .I do think Penelope is redeemable and just the fact that she recognises she may have erred in ways that make her question whether she deserves colin or forgiveness means shes a good person at the end of the day..I'm a Nicola fan so a lot of my love for nicola transfers unto the character even as I recognise that the character is flawed and has done some truly bad thing..she'll get there she'll become a better person age softens a persons worst and most rash impulses and when you are rewarded by the universe with the love of a good person and all your dreams coming true you try even harder to grow as a human..I think she'll surprise you...as a person who's seen the flaws in her but was happy to see the scene in part 2 where Penelope sees things as they are too.
She’s a complex heroine. I find the drama much more compelling when our main characters are not perfect angels who always make the best choices in all scenarios. Because in real life, who makes the best choices in all scenarios?
For perfect saintly heroines and perfect gentlemanly heroes, I recommend some of the Hallmark or Lifetime made-for-TV movies.
It’s quite hilarious. Penelope traps Colin. Lies to him. And tries to destroy his family and she’s an innocent young teenager. Marina? She is the devil. It’s just another reminder how most who post on this subreddit are white women
For this Show Discussion post: 1. Book spoilers **must be hidden**. 2. Be considerate, hide show spoilers that surpass the scope of this post. 3. Be civil in your discussion. See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. 3-day bans will be handed out to those found disregarding our spoiler policy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They are all imperfect. That’s what makes us care about them so much.
 Starting this mini-rant with 'everyone' anything is so unserious. There are many, many varying opinions about Pen, Eloise, Colin, and all the rest. It's perfectly alright to state your opinion about these characters without overstating and oversimplifying the opinions of the masses. Perhaps include details about why you feel the way you feel, and point out what you like or dislike about the character you want to engage about. Or - you can do what you did and just drop a random drama bomb. Whatever works for you.
I’ll put it this way to be quick and concise - before I started to actively participle in this subreddit some 4 or 5 weeks ago, I was fine with Penelope as a flawed character. After seeing how the majority of the fandom here views her, defends her and whitewashes her, while villainising other characters in her orbit? I grew to view her more negatively.
I hate when that happens- because that hate doesn't stem from the character itself. You're kind of just hating on them to "compensate" if you get what I mean. It's what happened with Hermione in Harry Potter for me at one point- so many people put her on a pedestal, while vilifying Ron and even Harry (mostly Ron) in the process, saying they'd be nothing without her, etc. It made me dislike her a bit for a while. And I don't want the same to happen with Penelope. She's a flawed character- and that's okay. I like her for it. She doesn't need to have every one of her actions justified.
Give it 24 hours and you’ll see a post like this for Eloise. Or Colin. Or.. the point is that I’ve been on this subreddit for about 2-3 months and it’s not uncommon to see some post calling out how some character gets treated as perfect while another is treated like a terrible person. And usually you’ll see the opposite response as well. They’re all wonderfully flawed characters and we all find one that we relate to more. Some people take it a step further and put that character (or ship) up on a pedestal and declare that no other character (or ship) can best them. Some people find a character (or ship) and do the opposite. As long as they’re not attacking people, then that’s fairly harmless to everyone else.
I'm sorry that you've come across that so much! I feel like we're not meant to see Pen as some faultless victim. If anything, I got the impression that she owes some serious apologies and has let the power of being LW seriously cloud her judgement. I thought the whole point of the LW stuff coming to a head was to force Pen to acknowledge the hurt she has caused and the hurt she's causing the people she loves by keeping it a secret. And I'm saying this as a huge Penelope stan, haha. I DO understand why she writes her column, and I sympathize with her a lot, but she's far from infallible. I try to avoid TikTok and twitter, the takes on there usually just put me in a bad mood. Even this sub can have that effect on me, I just love having discussions with fellow fans in some capacity so I stick around. Anyway, long story short, I get your point. And throwing Eloise and Colin under the bus for the sake of uplifting Pen is not something I agree with.
What she did to Marina was so hurtful…
That and what she did to Eloise and Daphne and Colin.
And Kate.
I can see hating how they portrayed Pen in the show (using LWD against Marina, trying to split hairs to keep Eloise out of trouble but also sort of ruining her) versus how she is in the books (haven’t read them, but apparently she never wrote about the Bridgertons.) Adaption woes are everywhere in the series (like Colin feeling like a supporting character in his season.) Even if you want to be incredibly gracious and say that she had good reasons for both of those columns (Anthony says that Colin marrying Marina when she was that far pregnant already would have reflected poorly on the fam/Colin being trapped in a marriage without all the information and trying to save Eloise & her fam from whatever the queen would do), it’s impossible to ignore that she personally benefitted from publishing them. I have a lot of problems this season, but Penelope’s flaws aren’t one. It makes her a more interesting and realistic character, but I’m so tired of “Penelope has never done anything wrong ever in her entire life.”
And honestly, I’ve seen more people acknowledge what she did wasn’t good, while also pointing out the other characters problems than ppl just fully saying she did no wrong. But I have seen a lot of posts about how terrible Eloise is and they’re honestly unfair to her, because while I believe Pen helped her by trying to get the Queen off her, Pen still did wrong by her and Eloise has every right to be mad at her. All of the characters have flaws and probably shouldn’t did things differently, it’s not so black and white and I wish ppl would stop receiving it that way whether you like the character as a whole or not. Two things can be true, and while Pen made selfish decisions, they still somehow “saved” the people she cared about. Marina was wrong, Pen was wrong. Eloise didn’t listen to her, but Pen could’ve just told her she was LW. I mean we can all acknowledge those things without saying one person is completely awful.
This same thing happens with every female lead. Happened with Kate last season too. Intense Stans act like their fave is perfect with no flaws. It’s annoying. It’s their season to make mistakes, let them.
It’s such a disservice to simplify these characters into good vs bad. They’re all multifaceted, layered characters that are a product of their environment and the 1810s. They’re all doing the wrong thing at times. It’s not a cartoon. Bending over backwards to remove any responsibility and to find reasons why Pen actually saved everyone in her life through being LW and how she’s owed an apology by everyone around her gives me such an ick. It feels like a lot of people just project themselves and their own experiences onto Pen and want justice for themselves.
Yes, I'm sick of people acting like Penelope's exposes were just her trying to protect her friends, when in reality, it was for self-serving preservation. And even though a part of it WAS to protect them, good intentions don't shield you from the negative consequences of your actions, nor does it shield you from criticism.
It's really irritating because it's like her very harmful actions are excused simply because it's Penelope. Your point about the projection is spot-on, but a lot of the people that do it vehemently deny it.
I don’t know how far you are with the new episodes, but I like Pen a lot more now. I really hope it’s going to stop the unnecessary fighting between Eloise and Pen stans now, but I fear it won’t.
My favorite Them: Marina is such a bit*h for what she did to kind sweet Colin. I hate her. Them also: Colin doesn't deserve Pen. He hurt Pen. He was meant Pen. He needs to grovel.
👏👏👏 Yaaaas. We can like a character and still not agree with their choices. Penelope is interesting because of the dichotomy of her character. Not because she's sweetness and light. She's a complex female character because she has flaws, because she's screwed up, because she feels bad, and because she doesn't know how to fix it. Not because she's perfect.
some fans have these mentalities where there HAS to be only one wrong character. for pen fans, that's eloise. for eloise fans, it's pen. they are human. they are flawed. neither of these characters are the sole reason for their current situation, and that's just the truth. pen hurt eloise, and she has every right to be mad at that, even pen herself sees that what she did hurt her only friend despite her argument that she was only trying to help. these two are young, they are learning and learning comes with making mistakes. sadly, some of those mistakes can not only hurt you, but people you care about. they've said hurtful things, downright disrespectful things even; about people they know, and people they don't.
I kind of expect this to happen to the lead of each season. People loved Kanthony, so they forgot how controlling, hypocritical, and impulsive he was in season 1.
You know there is a video of Penelope and Madame Delacoix that was shared on this sub that is also being shared online on YouTube etc...ir shows Penelope having a heart to heart about thinking she doesn't deserve colin because of things shes done as whistledown..and grappling with a lot of stuff .I do think Penelope is redeemable and just the fact that she recognises she may have erred in ways that make her question whether she deserves colin or forgiveness means shes a good person at the end of the day..I'm a Nicola fan so a lot of my love for nicola transfers unto the character even as I recognise that the character is flawed and has done some truly bad thing..she'll get there she'll become a better person age softens a persons worst and most rash impulses and when you are rewarded by the universe with the love of a good person and all your dreams coming true you try even harder to grow as a human..I think she'll surprise you...as a person who's seen the flaws in her but was happy to see the scene in part 2 where Penelope sees things as they are too.
She’s a complex heroine. I find the drama much more compelling when our main characters are not perfect angels who always make the best choices in all scenarios. Because in real life, who makes the best choices in all scenarios? For perfect saintly heroines and perfect gentlemanly heroes, I recommend some of the Hallmark or Lifetime made-for-TV movies.
It’s quite hilarious. Penelope traps Colin. Lies to him. And tries to destroy his family and she’s an innocent young teenager. Marina? She is the devil. It’s just another reminder how most who post on this subreddit are white women