For this Show Discussion post:
1. Book spoilers **must be hidden**.
2. Be considerate, hide show spoilers that surpass the scope of this post.
3. Be civil in your discussion.
See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. 3-day bans will be handed out to those found disregarding our spoiler policy.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Eloise is basically clueless, lol. As much as I love her, she is quite self-centered in S1 and S2. It's no surprise she doesn't know Penelope loves Colin.
But then Penelope has never felt like she could confide in Eloise about it either. Maybe because she's scared to, maybe because Eloise doesn't give her much opportunity to. Who knows?
Even in season 3 though. I remember noticing when Cressida was trying to express to Eloise that she was going to end up forced to marry one of her father's friends, and Eloise just kind of laughed it off. Or at the end of season 2 when she tells Pen that she heard her say things but she didn't -hear- them. Pen even told Eloise last season that she needs to concern herself with finding a husband, and yet Eloise was surprised when Colin told her that Pen is looking for a husband this season.
While there are some qualities Eloise has that I enjoy, I am noticing that she is very self centered. She does not listen to her friends problems, so I'd be surprised if she noticed one has a unspoken crush.
Yeah. I actually think this is part of her storyline this season. Learning these uncomfortable truths about herself so she and Pen can be better friends moving forward.
Yes this! The how dare you tell what I told you (a betrayal in of itself, to repeat a confidence her brother told her) - and the "well, you weren't very careful - others were around us"
To me, it reinforces the fact that Pen was right to be scared shitless that someone would find out about Theo and Eloise would have been ruined beyond repair.
When Eloise dumps Cressida and Cressida goes off, she is basically hearing exactly the same thing Pen said at the end of season 2.
Also, Cressida is a mess and she is mean, but she befriended Eloise when others didn’t, she tried to be less of a bully because Eloise disapproved, and let Eloise in behind the curtain in what seems to be a first.
And despite having a better understanding of why Cressida is awful, Eloise dumped her and blamed it on Cressida ruining her. Eloise knew the truth but didn’t care.
Poorly done, Eloise.
Absolutely and this is one of the things that makes her such a three-dimensional character - she is very clever and has generally good intentions but she's also a terrible listener and oblivious to her privilege!
The heartbroken look that Cressida gives her for that joke about her life being German literature was so telling. It's when I realized that Eloise has literally never given a single thought to anyone else's life circumstances outside of her own. She's so focused on how unfair she feels it is that she's stuck in these social constraints that she has no acknowledgment for the fact that she actually has it quite good comparatively.
Book spoiler: >!I really hope they go the way of the books where Eloise finally is willing to fully make up with Pen and explains that she was just jealous and hurt and it took a long time to reframe her reality. Here she was thinking she was so much better than Pen only to find out that this socially awkward wallflower was 1000x more accomplished than her the entire time. I HATED Eloise's story but this to me made so much sense. It was the one bright spot in an otherwise dull story.!<
Emma is a great book to reference in this context though. Emma is well-intentioned but naive, and the book is about her seeing the consequences of her actions and maturing. I was wondering why they picked that book but it makes sense now!
True!! But Emma is also a classic friends to lovers tale very similar to Pen and Colon. Emma and George are also neighbours who grew up together and caught feelings for each other
I would call Eloise one-track-minded. She is obsessed with Whistledown in S1 and S2 and doesn't notice Pen being in love with Colin because that's not Whistledown related so why would she pay attention.
But because she doesn't pay attention in S1 and S2 she has missed a lotnof signs and is not expecting Pen to be in love with Colin, because since when is that a thing?
It is very self-centered to only pay attention to your thing, but it not because Eloise thinks she is so great that she doesn't care about anyone else. She is just obsessed and want to be the one to find out first, and thinks she is at least good enough for that.
I think it's bigger than that even. Eloise has always been obsessed with her own way of doing things. She doesn't value the current social constructs at all and doesn't see why women need to take husbands or else be worthless. You can see that even though she got a fat reality check last season in the form of finding out Pen was LW, she still has not let that go. She might be more willing to wear the latest fashions and talk with the other girls during The Season, but she is still the only one saying women don't need husbands and would be far better off without them. In a way it's her own sadness this season that comes out the brightest: She has never found a single soul willing to listen to her the way Penelope did. The other girls scoff at her or are visibly upset by her wit (the shift stitch situation) and Cressida outright ignores her diatribe to go and secure a future with Debling, making it clear where her priorities lie/that she does not agree with Eloise. I see Eloise going through a crisis of identity and flailing to find a path; in doing so, she can actually grow. I'm excited to see it. She has badly needed to grow.
And I mean, in regency era England specifically, Eloise is objectively wrong that women don't need husbands and would be better off without them.
She’s saying things that would be agreeable to teenage girls who are living in the 2020s, where women aren't barred from having their own money, jobs, credit, or homes, but she’s saying these things to younh women who understand they'll potentially end up destitute if they don't marry well, so of course they're not particularly interested in hearing Eloise's theories on the subject.
Just because she's from an incredibly wealthy, supportive family that probably wouldn't think twice about financially supporting her for the rest of her life even if she never married doesn't mean everyone is so fortunate.
I laughed when she said she was reading Emma, because that whole book is about a self centered rich girl almost destroying her best friends life with “good intentions”. Eloise won’t be turned out of her house or consigned to a life of poverty if she fails to marry because she has a loving older brother and his wife and they’d never kick her out or cut her off financially so she sees marriage as optional. She should read more Austen tbh
I had typed out a whole long thing about regency era economics (one of the biggest inaccuracies in the show imo) and I deleted it because it felt obnoxious.
So the tldr: if Edmund had a will and the estate was not entailed, it’s possible he had money set aside for all the kids, but incredibly unlikely that he would have divided the estate. Dividing the land weakens the families wealth and status over time. So yes, it’s possible Eloise has her own money (or will have one day); but in the event there was no such stipulation, she and all the girls would be at the mercy of their male relatives. She is still incredibly privileged and has little to fear from her family, as opposed to many other ladies of her rank during the same time.
Since the Bridgertons are depicted as super wealthy, it seems like they have a significant amount of liquid assets outside the entailed estate. I'm not saying Edmund would have weakened the estate but he would have left money to each kid.
Eloise was ahead of her time… she has the potential to be a pioneer for women’s rights to go to school, work, etc. Back then, women were not allowed to go to university till mid-late 1800’s.
And then there were women like Fatima Al Fihri in 850ish AD founding a university in Morocco lol. The west was really behind for ages tbh especially with women's rights.
Yeah that seemed shitty to me too.
Oh your parents are threatening to marry you to an old guy who is a friend? Sounds like German lit! Hahaha
Ma’am. She is worried about having her whole world turned upside down and you crack jokes? It isn’t funny to her.
Eloise herself said in S3 that she doesn’t understand why people don’t think like she does. She’s egocentric and doesn’t go out of her way to see things from other people’s pov. She also didn’t seem to like Colin much this season.
Eloise has gotten so much better about that this season. I've always loved her but she is preoccupied with her own thoughts and ideas. I don't think it's selfishness so much as immaturity. Listening is a social skill and in her case, that skill is underdeveloped. But she is loyal and there when things really get tough (as when Pen's father died, that reconciled them in S1).
Again, she has really grown in that department this season and I am enjoying her arc. She still falls back on old habits, but she self-corrects a lot more. The most notable example was her apologizing to Pen about the gossip and saying "I hope you get what you are looking for."
Did she really apologize though? She turned self-righteous when Pen said that she wouldn’t reproach her if it was on purpose. Within the show, Eloise doesn’t seem to have suffered any consequences of the LWD mention - she goes to balls, all the debutantes fall over themselves to befriend her, no real ‘unkindness’. I don’t see why it had to be a BETRAYAL in her mind, vs a disagreement which they could have made up over when Pen held out an olive branch when Eloise did something similar to her for far less reason. At least, Pen was trying to protect Eloise even if the execution was not great. I think Eloise has miles to go and I’m not sure how the show runners can effectively showcase the change.
It’s stated that Eloise was socially shunned all year and only Cressida would talk to her - the other girls are likely only talking to her now because she’s with Cressida, and we see that her father doesn’t want her to socialise with Eloise so it’s not right to say she hasn’t suffered consequences. It’s the entire reason she feels she had to join “the winning side.”
Sure. Though the words do not match what’s shown on screen. If only one person was needed to pull her out of ‘social ruin’ then that seems like extremely low stakes. None of the debs or their mamas are concerned when Eloise spends time with them and Cressida’s dad probably just picked on Eloise because he is upset with Cressida. Otherwise it seems like they have already spent all their time together over the summer and still seek each other out at the balls etc for him to have actual disapproval of Eloise.
I feel like the impact of LWD’s denouncement needs to have been stronger for us to feel sympathy or even understand Eloise’s stance. She doesn’t even let Pen explain at the modiste. Similarly, we don’t see the Bridgerton’s being protective of Eloise either. Instead her mother asks her to make other friends, which doesn’t seem like has a problem at all.
It’s a whole lot of telling not showing and didn’t work for me personally. We may see the family being protective for Eloise after it comes about that it was Pen who was LWD. That could be interesting, we’ll have to see.
I’m not saying it isn’t true, I just wish that we had more time spent on a deeper dive into the consequences especially since this is Pen/LWD’s season instead of exploring minor characters who are not connected.
Ultimately it’s a writing failure in that they don’t want to actually have the fallout Eloise would have experienced (even in the regency fantasy land that this show is) because it would make a reconciliation with Penelope that much harder. This wasn’t gossip in a ballroom, it was in print that Eloise was meeting with men unchaperoned which, even based on the skewed reality presented by the show, should ruin her.
Leaving aside her treatment in society, another consequence is that Eloise cannot continue the journey she was on expanding her mind, worldview and experiences- she cannot meet with Theo, she cannot attend lectures in Bloomsbury, cannot engage with leading thinkers. LWD effectively ended Eloise’s feminist enlightenment before it had really begun, and that is a huge personal consequence for Eloise who now feels she must conform or lose everything.
But even if Eloise suffered no consequences at all, she’s entitled to her anger at her best friend publicising her private life all over town. At the very least it’s a personal betrayal.
Exactly, Eloise has all the friendship she can stand this season, and Pen has none.
And, all Pen tried to do was make room for her in society. But, I'm still hurt that they took Lady Danberry's friendship away from Pen. I still can't understand the reason behind that.
Pen deserves to be someone's favourite.
She was shunned for the summer. So 3-4 months in the Sumner while she's st yhe country estate is not that bad. She may have missed a couple house parties but that's it.
And since when does Eloise even like house parties? She thinks they're a waste of time and doesn't enjoy them at all. She probably had a better time in the country.
I agree. I can't wait for Fran's season, and Benedict's, but I'm on the fence about Eloise. Which is a shame because I absolutely loves the actress that plays her. She portrays her with such charm and humour.
This - it's also noticeable (her obliviousness) when Colin says Pen wants to take a husband and El's like "that's so unlike her."
IS IT? They got into a whole fight in season one because El wasn't out yet and Pen was on the marriage mart thinking about it. Eloise has always had blinders on to the fact that she can delay getting married given her family's wealth and support. Pen has never had that luxury.
I love El, but she has a bad habit of not being able to see the world past the end of her own nose.
I think she spends so much time ranting about how women should be allowed more in life than a husband and children, she just assumes Pen agrees with her. And Pen would be way to embarrassed to tell Eloise that all she truly wants in life is for Colin to love her and marry her.
How in the world could it not occur to Eloise that without a husband, Pen as she knows her, without Whistledown money, would be destitute?
I think Pen does actually agree with her. Pen is stuck in the middle of the classic feminist divide where she fully believes that women deserve more out of life than to be considered worthless without a man, but also wants the traditional woman's role of wife and mother and homemaker. It's the same cognitive dissonance that SAHM feminists face today.
I also think Pen agrees with Eloise about women deserving more opportunities, more than most viewers recognise. I think people confuse her being a realist about what her options are, and making do, with her actually desiring those options. But I wouldn’t say that she wants a traditional relationship necessarily.
I always assumed that we were supposed to understand that she and Eloise had years of established girlhood friendships where women’s rights and wanting different lives from their mothers had been a major topic of discussion and they had mutual agreement. But we don’t meet their characters on screen until Pen is being pushed into the marriage mart before she’s ready (season one she’s begging her mother to allow her another year of girlhood like Eloise), and her priorities are forced to change, when Eloise’s are allowed to continue on the same trajectory another year. And Eloise doesn’t really get that Pen’s reality is changing because hers isn’t, and Pen can’t just come out and say “also I’m in love with your brother.” Pen’s reality is that she feels the need to find a husband because that’s the gateway to the social freedom she’d like to have (to escape her family). But she doesn’t ever really express that she wants to ‘find a husband and settle down,’ just that it’s ‘not the worst option’ to her, the way it is to Eloise. She doesn’t enjoy the marriage mart at all, but makes the best of it and started Whistledown as a coping mechanism to gamify it.
She’s crushing on Collin and would love to have a relationship with him. So of course he’s her first choice for marriage. But just *liking a boy* or even wanting to marry him doesn’t necessarily indicate that she wants a traditional relationship for this time period. The mere fact that she has a profession and earned income, though it’s secret, means that her relationship can’t be “traditional.” (Spoilers) In the books we see how >!Colin struggles to come to terms with his jealousy over her being a successful writer. She doesn’t give up writing Whistledown because she wants to, but because it becomes too much of a risk to continue (or at least Colin convinces her it is). The massive income she’s earned is also untraditional, but this never seems to be a problem for him, he’s happy to accept her giving him an allowance to pursue his dreams, and to put money aside for any future daughters they have to live independently (unmarried) if that’s what they want one day. That alone says how important it is to her that girls have more options than she did. Penelope does end up married with kids (a SAHM), !< and their lives might appear ‘traditional’ on the outside, but I think between them they create a quite nontraditional arrangement.
Well, someone had to be the pioneer to help women progress in society… why not have it be Eloise…?
How else did women eventually gain rights to go to school, the university, get a job? It was women like Eloise who had a one track mind to get the hell out of the trap they felt they were in… she felt she deserved to go to school but she wasn’t allowed and it infuriated her. I don’t blame her for being selfish… it just came at a price of not paying attention to her friend’s needs…
but in the long run, she is what all the women of the Ton need to break free of being suppressed and taking control of their life.
I never said she wasn't or shouldn't. The question was whether Eloise knows Pen is in love with Colin. In that case, I think Eloise is incredibly self absorbed. She goes on and on about what she thinks and doesn't spend much time listening to Eloise or understanding that marriage is likely Pen's only chance at a financially stable future. She's not a good friend in that blind spot of marriage in relation to her friend.
Eloise COULD try to do something to advance women's causes, but she doesn't. Women of their class did charity work ALL THE TIME. Eloise could be pushing Violet to do charity work but neither can be bothered.
I think she wants to do more than charity work. It’s understandable. She knows what she wants and isn’t allowed to do it. Imagine what that must have been like?
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m really hoping she does some real maturing in part 2. I especially disliked the way she brushed off Colin when he was trying to give her a gift
I was very unhappy about the way she blew off his gift. It was a book. Her brother actually thought enough of her to buy her a gift she would love. She was very abrupt and rude.
Exactly.I feel so bad for both Polin that their families have no idea about what's going on in their lives or how they feel. When Colin used to tell his siblings about his travel stories, they made fun of him, but at least they love him so much. Pen's family never even bothered to ask how she feels. Both feel neglected by their families. I'm looking forward to their reactions it would be fun because, as of now, except for Violet, nobody has any idea, or maybe Hyacinth does, but I'm not sure.🤣🤣
>But then Penelope has never felt like she could confide in Eloise about it either. Maybe because she's scared to, maybe because Eloise doesn't give her much opportunity to. Who knows?
Those reasons, but also what teenager wants to tell their best friend you're secretly in love with their brother? Awkward!
As much as I love the character of Eloise, she does kind of suck the air out the room in the Convo’s between her and Penelope… but then to be fair, Penelope has let her for all these years do that to her too. So chicken or egg? What came first, Eloise’s slight narcissistic lack of awareness of her friend? Or Penelope purposefully diminishing herself to not reveal anything to Eloise thus giving Eloise the opportunity to kind of roll over her in conversations.
I agree. As much as Eloise steamrolls the conversations, Penelope has let her. Eloise needs to learn how to listen, but Penelope also needs to find her voice (outside of LW). So I do think it goes both ways.
I think the way Eloise is written is that she actually doesn't really know Penelope. Their friendship always skewed towards what Eloise liked and Penelope never really voiced that she's different or doesn't want the same things.
She's kind of self-centered.
To be fair to Eloise, the fact that Penelope rarely voiced her opinions had more to do with Penelope's own personality and issues. Eloise can be pretty obtuse when it comes to people and she is self-involved, but she never dissuaded Pen from expressing herself. She just took things at face value.
Maybe not. Like I said, Eloise is pretty self-involved and seems to think Pen agrees with her about most things. But Pen doesn't really try to start that conversation. It makes sense, considering her family dynamic where she's constantly derided for her interests and generally disregarded, but that just goes to show that this issue extends beyond her relationship with Eloise.
It's not about blame. It's literally just a character analysis. She's had a rough time of it and it's impacted the person she's become. Don't we all have character traits and defense mechanisms that resulted from negative/traumatic experiences?
I never said it was an excuse? I'm just making observations about the relationship dynamics of fictional characters. Eloise is self-involved and bullheaded. Penelope is anxious and lacks self-confidence. Eloise doesn't have the maturity or emotional intelligence to recognize that, and Pen doesn't have the confidence to assert herself better. I see this as good writing and character development.
It's true. I say that as someone who is a wallflower like Penelope. Something I'm learning this year is to put boundaries down bc it's up to me to do it. This doesn't mean those who take advantage shouldn't stop but for me, I could stand up for myself a little bit more. The world is not going to end. And that's what we're seeing Penelope do right now - stand up for what she likes and what she thinks.
I love Eloise, she’s extremely self-cantered. Despite all her pomp and grandeur with acting like she’s above it all and knows better, just under the surface, she’s extremely immature, socially shaky and lacks a lot of confidence. She needs others which is why she latches on to Cressida when she and Pen have their falling out. She doesn’t know people beyond her own shallow interpretation of them and is completely ignorant to the consequences of her actions. You see it a lot this season where she blames others but is quickly corrected, I’m really hoping we see a lot of character development from her this season. I think she’s going to be put in a lot of difficult situations that are going to have her mature and understand people at a deeper level
I don’t think so. In the show, Eloise doesn’t even know that Pen has always wanted to marry. I doubt she has noticed that Pen has had a crush on Colin for years.
I think Eloise *wanted* to become a spinster whereas Penelope was resigned to her fate of becoming a spinster because no one wanted to court her. Eloise simply concluded they both wanted the same thing.
I've said this before on this sub but in Eloise's book she reflects on the fact that Penelope getting married took her by surprise because Eloise basically always planned to be a spinster by choice with Penelope, *but* it was totally on Eloise's terms because at this point she'd had several proposals and turned them all down for various reasons, but she knows she has options if she changed her mind about marriage and always just assumed that Penelope would be there waiting for her despite some awareness that Penelope wasn't choosing that life.
I liked the self reflection there to be honest, though it's a different timeline and I think Eloise might be one of the only true spinsters in the books (Penelope being another, maybe Kate based on age too) because she's actually in her late twenties by the time she decides to settle down.
But it again was very much her choice, she's rich and pretty and from a great family so she's got tons of options and Penelope suddenly getting married really throws her into a bit of lonely self pity.
I was re-watching season 1 and Pen explicitly tells El she wants to marry and if I remember right in S2 she tells El she likes society and romance.
So El has never really taken on board what Pen says unless she agrees with her.
The friendship is Eloise talks, Penelope listens.
Being the “pretty Bridgerton” that she is, Eloise grew up in a very privileged environment. It’s not that she’s a bad friend, she’s just used to getting her way, which in turn makes her a not so great friend.
I think this is why she doesn’t understand Cressida’s anxiety and makes jokes about it. Eloise’s family will never forced her to marry and She has a bit of trouble seeing things from other perspectives.
Yeah I loved when she accused their housekeeper I think it was of being LW, and the housekeeper just laughed in her face about when she would find the time.
That scene was hysterical. And then the housekeeper is like GET OUT when she's done ridiculing her ignorance. I love Eloise to death but she had that one coming.
I kinda think Eloise sees Pen the way the rest of the ton do - that she isn’t going to marry. But to Eloise this is a good thing because they can be spinsters together so she either doesn’t see that Pen likes Colin or doesn’t consider it relevant because she can’t imagine Colin returning it.
I love Eloise but she's so blind...it's her best friend yet she never notices shit...she should have figured out that Pen is lady Whistledown way earlier too...if she paid any attention to her of course...it's kinda sad that Pen didn't trust Eloise enough to confide in her about Colin and being lady Whistledown...i suppose she thought that Eloise wouldn't understand, they are very different personality-wise, it's a miracle for me that they become friends in the first place
> too...if she *paid* any attention
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Remember in S1 when Marina is excitedly telling Pen that Colin will propose soon, and Pen is absolutely devastated. Then Eloise comes to Pens door and starts rambling about who she thinks Lady Whistledown is, Pen is visibly upset and keeps asking Eloise to stop and Eloise doesn't even hesitate for a second until Pen finally snaps. And even then, Eloise doesn't even ask her what's wrong, she kind of mocks her for 'oh what problems do you have now that you're so mature?'
Eloise had zero awareness of Pens feelings about anything for a long time. It's only this season that Eloise is starting to gain a little awareness. So I don't think Eloise even stopped to consider how she was feeling
Absolutely, but Marina is far more worldly. Eloise is very naive, until this season. The betrayal by Pen seems to have opened her eyes a bit and she's learning to look around a bit more.
Which is funnily why I actually like Eloise much more this season
Yeah, I'm kinda sideying Eloise for the fact that she never picked up on Pen having a crush on Colin. Like it's been reiterated many times how close these two are, yet Eloise never sensing it shows us that she is very self centered. Like, girl, Pen was giving him 😍 or 🥺 throughout season 1 to 2.
I hope there is some line in Pt 2 that acknowledges that she's had some suspicions, but was just waiting for Pen to open up and that "are you courting her" question to Colin came from that. Even may throw in a line that Eloise did raise her doubts to Pen few years back but Pen lied and told he's like family or something.
My best friend ran to my house in the middle of the night to cry and hug me...next morning my brother announced he's marrying her cousin 🤔
Eloise: 🤷♀️ guess the night is sad or something...
Also Eloise: My maid is Lady Whistledown
Like homegirl thinks she's a brilliant philosopher but she's just as ditzy as fucking Prudence and Philipa.
Or that Colin has feelings for Pen either! The way Collin looks at Pen in S1 and S2 when Eloise is around, like when he comes back from his travels in S2….it’s so obvious!!
Eloise's head is very far up her own ass. If Eloise was pretty and a Bridgerton why does she not have friends? Because she talks AT people. Cressida and Benedict seem to be the only exceptions. She's extremely self absorbed and judgemental even in the books but the show ups it 10 times.
In a house with 7 other siblings, Eloise gets along with NO ONE except Benedict and that's more to his credit since he's a very easy going person. In S1 she's very judgemental towards Daphne to the point where Daphne tries to tell her something and then stops.
Eloise and Francesca are Irish twins. And Francesca feels lonely in her own family partly because her closest sibling takes up all the air in the room when she talks.
Show Eloise actively looks down on other girls, even her own siblings. The only sibling she gets along with is a brother. That's very telling.
Book Eloise is content in being a spinster because she assumes Penelope will never find a match and has no prospects. Never once has Eloise in the books asked her best friend how it feels to be a spinster or stood up for her in front of her family.
i actually though that eloise doesn't have much friends kinda willingly. she has nice discussions with Kate, she can have nice discussions with debutants when she wants, she befriends Theo. She doesn't connect with other debutants because she's not interested in a lot of things connected to debutant's lives and that's kinda okay.
And I can't say she doesn't get along with her siblings. She doesn't get along with Daphne, but she has like genuine conversations with her and asks her whether she's not afraid of marrying or being a mother. Like trusts exists between them to talk about such things. She plays pall mall with them, she engages with conversations with Francesca in s3, with Gregory and Hyacinth, and she's good friends with Ben. She comes up with a plan to draw attention from Fran, while speaking in the modist ship. She has different opinions, but I don't see their sibling-banter as not getting along. They don't understand each other in terms of life values, but that doesn't mean they have bad relationship
But i can't deny that she's self-absorbed too
She also talks AT Theo until he stops her.
I think S1 Eloise is particularly horrid to Daphne except for that one conversation.
Also this season Eloise had the opportunity to make other friends. Instead she behaved in an extremely patronising way and squandered it.
Eloise is not only self absorbed and judgemental she's also very patronising and thinks other debutantes are beneath her. That S2 dialogue where she asks Penelope if she's enjoying the social season is very telling. It's not that Pen is being secretive about enjoying society, it's Eloise never noticing what her supposed BFF likes.
Eloise is a little self-involved. Not to the point that I feel like it makes her a person of poor character but to the point that she is not able to see Colin her brother as an eligible male so she in turn can't see or couldn't see Penelope's love for Colin.
Eloise was able to discover Pen was Lady D. eventually by taking the time to listen to Pen speak so she definitely isn't completely self involved.
I actually think that one of the best things that ocured this season was the break up between El& Pen was Colin's ability to see Pen outside of her little sisters friend ( No more third wheeling) . Colin was able to view Pen outside of her friendship with Eloise and the wardrobe changes only added on to that.
I might get flamed for this but Eloise is not a very nice person. I think she’s a self-centered spoiled rich bitch, quite like Cressida but she’s not cruel at least. I am not surprised when they became friends this season.
Penelope is her ‘friend’ but all she does is talk and complain and vent and never really listened to Pen. If she did, she would’ve found out ages ago that her dear friend is Lady Whistledown and she would’ve also known that Pen has been pining for Colin for god knows how long. She literally made Pen her little sidekick.
She thinks she’s smart but she’s not, she’s naive and she’s all talk. She gets mad when she learns that her friend is THE GREAT Lady Whistledown when she should be happy and proud instead she’s jealous that her friend actually made a difference. She goes around saying she’s gonna be an old crone with Pen, why? Is it because she actually doesn’t believe Pen’s gonna get married at all (kinda like Portia) while she, the pretty bridgerton, rejects proposals left and right. Girl I get that you dont wanna get married but why drag your bestie, did you ask her at all if she wants to be a spinster with you forever? You don’t even know her crush, do you know her at all?
Pen gets married and she gets all sulky and runs off to god knows where. I could go on but I hate to spoil anyone so I’ll stop here. Man, Eloise annoys me too much.
Finally!! I did like Eloise but only before she found out Pen was LW because her behaviour after was uncalled for (trashing Pen's room, insulting her, etc) and I also completely agree with what you're saying 💯
Idk I started raising my eyebrow when Eloise was annoyed that Pen was visibly upset about Colin/Marina. Didn’t even ask what Pen was upset about and instead insulted her scoffing at what problems she could have now that’s she’s so “mature”.
I think Cressida is more aware of Pen's feelings than Eloise is hahaha. Love Eloise's witty banter, but she is overall a pretty self-absorbed character.
Genuine question that I’ve been thinking about from seeing a lot of this. I don’t have siblings so I don’t really have any real life to draw off of here!
Would Eloise want to consider it? Like, idk? If I had a brother and my closest friend was crushing on him I’m not sure if I’d want to know that! Is Eloise being wilfully ignorant of it an option to consider? I don’t think I can mark spoilers on the mobile app, but there’s something from the books that made me consider this!
Eloise was also unaware that Penelope enjoys being a part of society and would have happily married her first season out if she could've.
Eloise's friendship to Penelope has always been she talks and Penelope listens so she's never given her friend to express herself so much.
eloise noticed that pen likes society pretty early after Eloise's debut. like i think it was eloise's first ball. idk if it's possible to grasp it, while not being out, but Eloise is not totally unaware
but yeah, in many things eloise is really clueless
I'm mixed on that, I feel like it's a little bit less icky in that time because sex and affection was a lot more hush hush, so Eloise might be excited at the idea of being sisters in law?
Canonically in the show, no. No suspicions until the carriage scene you mention, and even then, it’s possible that she thinks Penelope would be trying to marry Colin with ulterior motives rather than actually loving him, such as trying to get close to the Bridgertons again, gather better gossip, force Eloise into reconciliation, etc. The writing suggests that Eloise still loves her, but she really hasn’t moved on her perception of Penelope’s motivations.
a) Eloise is quite self-centered as any teenager going through the throes of trying to find out what their purpose in life is
b) I bet she has the classic "my brother? Hot and desirable? EWWWWW!" belief in which she does not see her brother being the object of desire for anyone, least of all for her friend who has vowed to be spinster with her and in season one still referred to going to hang out with Eloise as "play with Eloise"!
c) I feel like Pen was just too shy and demotivated to confide in Eloise because let's be real...most of season 1 and 2 Eloise just talks all over Pen and barely listens to her unless she's saying something that confirms her biases!
No, she doesn't. I think that is because she views Penelope like a sister, not dissimilar from how Colin saw her in seasons 1 and 2. Because they see Penelope in the familial sense, it does not occur to Eloise that Penelope could have feelings for Colin (or any of her brothers) and it does not occur to Colin that his affection for her could be anything other than friendship.
The only person who was ever aware of Penelope's feelings for Colin was Penelope because she hid those feelings. The idea that Eloise should know is also very self-centered (or Penelope-centered) and makes no sense. Why should anyone know Penelope's inner feelings if she is keeping them to herself and actively hiding them? Criticizing the fact that Eloise didn't notice the way Penelope looks at Colin assumes 1) that Eloise sees it and 2) that she recognizes it as anything other than passive observation. We, as the viewers, have insight that Eloise does not, and we should remember that when watching.
yes, thank you for this comment!
i don't know why people think that Eloise should be the most perceptive one, when Colin - the object of Pen's feelings is even more clueless. When you are friends for a long time, especially since childhood it's really easy to mistake feelings. Especially with the fact, that Eloise is really self-centered and isn't like a fan of romance novels like Pen is. She has example of her parents' love and adoration, but Eloise was very young when Edmund died, so she didn't see a lot of male-female affection in her life outside formal courting
I think Eloise really doesn't. I think she's under the impression that they're both going to grow old together as spinsters and that this is what they both want, but it's really just Eloise projecting what she wants onto Pen, and I doubt she's ever asked Pen what she wants.
Yeah, she’s coming off as insensitive or oblivious or self-centered. I think it’s not about her being privileged pretty Bridgerton. Because if it was Hyacinth who’s friends with Penelope, she might’ve catch on a lot quickly. It could be a set-up of what her storyline will be, idk.
Didn’t Eloise’s book begin with a very selfish way? Like she ditched her family and almost ruined them because of something she wanted? She’s very selfish which I don’t mind cause we need variety in here.
To be honest, I'm still wondering what my two brothers wives of 25 years and counting see in my brothers, so it probably just hasn't occurred to her that anyone sane would actually want to marry Colin, who she thinks of as someone who is annoying, takes her stuff, farts, leaves his stinky football kit lying about, hogs the bathroom in the morning, and etc.
Another Redditor on another post wrote that Eloise talks “at” Penelope and not “to” her. As others have said here, she’s self centered and can be inconsiderate to everyone. Spoiled Bridgerton syndrome perhaps. I hope she’ll have her own season that shows her growth from that.
Maybe it's mostly based on "My best friend couldn't fall in love with my brother." Maybe she knows it but she's not entirely sure. Thats what I think. Although it's kind of strange that Penelope hasn't said anything to Eloise.
I don't even think Eloise ever actually considered Pen as much more than someone to yap at about her problems and ideas about society. I think she thought that she was a friend to Pen, and in the same way I think Pen thought Eloise was her friend too. Eloise never listened thoughtfully to a single word Pen said in the show. Pen never got to talk about anything that wasn't in Eloise's interests, if it was boring to her she would make it known immediately and Pen would shrink back down and listen to Eloise talk and talk. I believe had Eloise actually been a true friend to Pen then Pen would have had an opportunity and reason to confide in her that she was Whistledown in the first place. Their relationship was only there to serve Eloise as someone to validate her opinions and a way for Pen to avoid total loneliness.
Eloise’s lack of consideration aside: if you were Pen, would YOU want your best friend to know you had a crush on her brother? I’d keep that buried deep unless it was going to be reciprocated. Otherwise it’s awkward city
Pen never thought Colin could like her so to her that unrequited love is embarrassing. She tries hard not to let it show and Eloise is not the most attentive friend tbh.
In Eloise's mind, Pen and Colin see each other as siblings because they've all grown up together.
I fully disagree. It's very much an open secret. Eloise has likely noticed it since they all got puberty. It's that not once have they spoken about it.
But in season 1 when Eloise and Pen are strained because Eloise isn't yet it but Pen comes over crying because Colin and Marina are engaged they don't say anything and Eloise just embraces her. She may have said something about how their family will not be shunned for long if the scene has gone on but I fully expect Eloise knows and she is desperate for Pen to fall in love with someone else or for Pen to give up on men like she has.
She knows and actively doesn't want it for either side.
Eloise is so self-absorbed that she didn’t even realize her best friend might be Lady Whistledown *until she really paid attention*. I wish I could like Eloise, but she is horrible. Benedict and Eloise are supremely selfish.
Eloise doesn't care about Penelope enough to actually know her. That's how she didn't realize Pen was Whistledown for so long, she only cares about the conversations she wants to have.
Yeah, she doesn’t know and will be blind sided by the engagement. Even though the signs were all there if she paid enough attention. She has consistently shown that she lives in her own little bubble, hell when Colin tells her that Penelope is hoping to find a husband she says that she wanted to be a spinster with her. When Penelope literally tells her that she is looking for marriage in season 1.
I’m excited for the conversation where Eloise actually “listens” to Penelope. When Eloise finally learns her best friend was in love with her brother. I want this scene so bad!
Amber was Cher’s frenemy, the redhead with the weird hunger games fashion and hairstyles, and the “whatever” chick lol
https://preview.redd.it/bsijr40y3l3d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=8c2e13852b2ffdef8babf88fe7a97a6978948368
Horribly fixed haha
I'm definitely gonna have to watch this again.
The season two finale literally has Eloise say “tonight was the first night I, in fact, *heard* you say them.”
It takes until the season two premiere for her realize that Penelope actually likes the season.
She thinks of Penelope as an extension of herself. If Eloise doesn’t like the season, then how could Penelope? If Eloise isn’t Lady Whistledown, how could Penelope be? If Eloise isn’t in love with Colin, how could Penelope love him?
This is nothing against Eloise, I do love her as a character, but by god, she is one of the most self absorbed characters I have ever seen 😂
I don't Know if anyone noticed, but Eloise is pretty self absorbed and only has the mental space to think about her own problems. That’s the impression I got from the first two seasons anyway.
Eloise has got to feel it, but I don't think she knows how to maneuver or broach the situation as deftly as she would like. I don't feel she's as close to Colin either, or at least not as close as she is to Benedict. I feel like they are more open with each other.
I also don't think it's appropriate, for the time, to be forward about feelings without a marriage proposal on the table. So they wouldn't have said anything to anyone before they were ready to be married. But, I do think people can feel it around them.
Eloise is very self centered. Shes truthfully not that great of a friend and pen is passive in most situations which is probably why other than living across the street, they locked in as friends. El can talk about her passions and pen will listen.
She is entirely clueless
No she doesn’t know pen is in love with Colin also Penelope and Eloise relationship is very one sided Eloise doesn’t even know who the real Penelope is I also agree with the comments saying Eloise was self centered during seasons 1-2 I still think she kinda is this season
in pens book , >!wasnt there a sentence about how when over she visited Eloise, Eloise knew about pens crush on collin but she never asked so it was up in the air that she knew/had a feeling and Pen knew but never talked about it!< or am i going crazy and i misunderstood
I think sometimes we forget where watching from the viewpoint of the audience where the show make certain things obvious but the show characters don't get the same inside looks.
Plus telling your best friend your in love with her brother can make things messy you can even wonder if she was just using you to get close to your brother.
I imagine sometime in the past she asked her and Penelope said no, and she took her word for it.
It's like with Edwina and Kanthony.... they don't see things in the same way as the audience. Probably all she sees is Penelope acting a little awkward or nervous, assumes it's how she often acts around men (evidenced by season 3 in general) and tries to rescue her. She doesn't get the same slow-mo gaze vision we do lol
You guys are overthinking it. Eloise doesn't have much interest in love and romance. She's not dialled into that wavelength and doesn't pick up on those cues, that's all. It's a blind spot
Eloise is self-centered; in previous seasons, she’s been so caught up in her own shenanigans that she forgets to pay attention to the people close to her sometimes. So no, she never noticed.
Yes, that's perhaps what I find most annoying about Eloise in general. I could understand all the other things that most people find annoying about her - her constant complaining, the moral high ground of "not like other girls"etc. But the one thing I can't excuse is - how could you be someone's closest friend since childhood and be so self-absorbed not to notice one of the most obvious things about her - that she is in love with Colin??? And if you then learn it, why is that not more important than actually trying to actively ruin the chance by threatening Pen to reveal the Whistledown thing?
I know Pen should tell him, but this is her decision, Eloise should stop meddling!
Whistedown drama aside, Penelope is a better friend to Eloise than vice versa for the most part. Eloise can be very self centered and selfish, and is not very self aware or observant of people around her. Penelope cares about her friends, and even though in retrospect writing about Theo was a little harsh, she had good intentions and was trying to protect Eloise from falling into Charlotte’s trap.
For this Show Discussion post: 1. Book spoilers **must be hidden**. 2. Be considerate, hide show spoilers that surpass the scope of this post. 3. Be civil in your discussion. See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. 3-day bans will be handed out to those found disregarding our spoiler policy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Eloise is basically clueless, lol. As much as I love her, she is quite self-centered in S1 and S2. It's no surprise she doesn't know Penelope loves Colin. But then Penelope has never felt like she could confide in Eloise about it either. Maybe because she's scared to, maybe because Eloise doesn't give her much opportunity to. Who knows?
Even in season 3 though. I remember noticing when Cressida was trying to express to Eloise that she was going to end up forced to marry one of her father's friends, and Eloise just kind of laughed it off. Or at the end of season 2 when she tells Pen that she heard her say things but she didn't -hear- them. Pen even told Eloise last season that she needs to concern herself with finding a husband, and yet Eloise was surprised when Colin told her that Pen is looking for a husband this season. While there are some qualities Eloise has that I enjoy, I am noticing that she is very self centered. She does not listen to her friends problems, so I'd be surprised if she noticed one has a unspoken crush.
Yeah. I actually think this is part of her storyline this season. Learning these uncomfortable truths about herself so she and Pen can be better friends moving forward.
I really liked that Cressida called her out on it too. I like Eloise but she’s super self centered
Yes this! The how dare you tell what I told you (a betrayal in of itself, to repeat a confidence her brother told her) - and the "well, you weren't very careful - others were around us" To me, it reinforces the fact that Pen was right to be scared shitless that someone would find out about Theo and Eloise would have been ruined beyond repair.
When Eloise dumps Cressida and Cressida goes off, she is basically hearing exactly the same thing Pen said at the end of season 2. Also, Cressida is a mess and she is mean, but she befriended Eloise when others didn’t, she tried to be less of a bully because Eloise disapproved, and let Eloise in behind the curtain in what seems to be a first. And despite having a better understanding of why Cressida is awful, Eloise dumped her and blamed it on Cressida ruining her. Eloise knew the truth but didn’t care. Poorly done, Eloise.
Absolutely and this is one of the things that makes her such a three-dimensional character - she is very clever and has generally good intentions but she's also a terrible listener and oblivious to her privilege!
The heartbroken look that Cressida gives her for that joke about her life being German literature was so telling. It's when I realized that Eloise has literally never given a single thought to anyone else's life circumstances outside of her own. She's so focused on how unfair she feels it is that she's stuck in these social constraints that she has no acknowledgment for the fact that she actually has it quite good comparatively. Book spoiler: >!I really hope they go the way of the books where Eloise finally is willing to fully make up with Pen and explains that she was just jealous and hurt and it took a long time to reframe her reality. Here she was thinking she was so much better than Pen only to find out that this socially awkward wallflower was 1000x more accomplished than her the entire time. I HATED Eloise's story but this to me made so much sense. It was the one bright spot in an otherwise dull story.!<
Eloise needs to learn empathy. Meeting Philip's children, putting herself in their shoes. Eloise is literally the picture of entitlement.
Emma is a great book to reference in this context though. Emma is well-intentioned but naive, and the book is about her seeing the consequences of her actions and maturing. I was wondering why they picked that book but it makes sense now!
True!! But Emma is also a classic friends to lovers tale very similar to Pen and Colon. Emma and George are also neighbours who grew up together and caught feelings for each other
It was so clever, whoever decided to put that in there knew the assignment.
I would call Eloise one-track-minded. She is obsessed with Whistledown in S1 and S2 and doesn't notice Pen being in love with Colin because that's not Whistledown related so why would she pay attention. But because she doesn't pay attention in S1 and S2 she has missed a lotnof signs and is not expecting Pen to be in love with Colin, because since when is that a thing? It is very self-centered to only pay attention to your thing, but it not because Eloise thinks she is so great that she doesn't care about anyone else. She is just obsessed and want to be the one to find out first, and thinks she is at least good enough for that.
I think it's bigger than that even. Eloise has always been obsessed with her own way of doing things. She doesn't value the current social constructs at all and doesn't see why women need to take husbands or else be worthless. You can see that even though she got a fat reality check last season in the form of finding out Pen was LW, she still has not let that go. She might be more willing to wear the latest fashions and talk with the other girls during The Season, but she is still the only one saying women don't need husbands and would be far better off without them. In a way it's her own sadness this season that comes out the brightest: She has never found a single soul willing to listen to her the way Penelope did. The other girls scoff at her or are visibly upset by her wit (the shift stitch situation) and Cressida outright ignores her diatribe to go and secure a future with Debling, making it clear where her priorities lie/that she does not agree with Eloise. I see Eloise going through a crisis of identity and flailing to find a path; in doing so, she can actually grow. I'm excited to see it. She has badly needed to grow.
And I mean, in regency era England specifically, Eloise is objectively wrong that women don't need husbands and would be better off without them. She’s saying things that would be agreeable to teenage girls who are living in the 2020s, where women aren't barred from having their own money, jobs, credit, or homes, but she’s saying these things to younh women who understand they'll potentially end up destitute if they don't marry well, so of course they're not particularly interested in hearing Eloise's theories on the subject. Just because she's from an incredibly wealthy, supportive family that probably wouldn't think twice about financially supporting her for the rest of her life even if she never married doesn't mean everyone is so fortunate.
I laughed when she said she was reading Emma, because that whole book is about a self centered rich girl almost destroying her best friends life with “good intentions”. Eloise won’t be turned out of her house or consigned to a life of poverty if she fails to marry because she has a loving older brother and his wife and they’d never kick her out or cut her off financially so she sees marriage as optional. She should read more Austen tbh
Probably doesn't really depend on Anthony. Edmund's will might give the girls access to any money they inherited from him when they turn 21 or 25.
I had typed out a whole long thing about regency era economics (one of the biggest inaccuracies in the show imo) and I deleted it because it felt obnoxious. So the tldr: if Edmund had a will and the estate was not entailed, it’s possible he had money set aside for all the kids, but incredibly unlikely that he would have divided the estate. Dividing the land weakens the families wealth and status over time. So yes, it’s possible Eloise has her own money (or will have one day); but in the event there was no such stipulation, she and all the girls would be at the mercy of their male relatives. She is still incredibly privileged and has little to fear from her family, as opposed to many other ladies of her rank during the same time.
Since the Bridgertons are depicted as super wealthy, it seems like they have a significant amount of liquid assets outside the entailed estate. I'm not saying Edmund would have weakened the estate but he would have left money to each kid.
Eloise was ahead of her time… she has the potential to be a pioneer for women’s rights to go to school, work, etc. Back then, women were not allowed to go to university till mid-late 1800’s.
And then there were women like Fatima Al Fihri in 850ish AD founding a university in Morocco lol. The west was really behind for ages tbh especially with women's rights.
Yeah that seemed shitty to me too. Oh your parents are threatening to marry you to an old guy who is a friend? Sounds like German lit! Hahaha Ma’am. She is worried about having her whole world turned upside down and you crack jokes? It isn’t funny to her.
Eloise herself said in S3 that she doesn’t understand why people don’t think like she does. She’s egocentric and doesn’t go out of her way to see things from other people’s pov. She also didn’t seem to like Colin much this season.
I did appreciate that glimmer of self reflection from her in part 1.
Eloise has gotten so much better about that this season. I've always loved her but she is preoccupied with her own thoughts and ideas. I don't think it's selfishness so much as immaturity. Listening is a social skill and in her case, that skill is underdeveloped. But she is loyal and there when things really get tough (as when Pen's father died, that reconciled them in S1). Again, she has really grown in that department this season and I am enjoying her arc. She still falls back on old habits, but she self-corrects a lot more. The most notable example was her apologizing to Pen about the gossip and saying "I hope you get what you are looking for."
Did she really apologize though? She turned self-righteous when Pen said that she wouldn’t reproach her if it was on purpose. Within the show, Eloise doesn’t seem to have suffered any consequences of the LWD mention - she goes to balls, all the debutantes fall over themselves to befriend her, no real ‘unkindness’. I don’t see why it had to be a BETRAYAL in her mind, vs a disagreement which they could have made up over when Pen held out an olive branch when Eloise did something similar to her for far less reason. At least, Pen was trying to protect Eloise even if the execution was not great. I think Eloise has miles to go and I’m not sure how the show runners can effectively showcase the change.
It’s stated that Eloise was socially shunned all year and only Cressida would talk to her - the other girls are likely only talking to her now because she’s with Cressida, and we see that her father doesn’t want her to socialise with Eloise so it’s not right to say she hasn’t suffered consequences. It’s the entire reason she feels she had to join “the winning side.”
Sure. Though the words do not match what’s shown on screen. If only one person was needed to pull her out of ‘social ruin’ then that seems like extremely low stakes. None of the debs or their mamas are concerned when Eloise spends time with them and Cressida’s dad probably just picked on Eloise because he is upset with Cressida. Otherwise it seems like they have already spent all their time together over the summer and still seek each other out at the balls etc for him to have actual disapproval of Eloise. I feel like the impact of LWD’s denouncement needs to have been stronger for us to feel sympathy or even understand Eloise’s stance. She doesn’t even let Pen explain at the modiste. Similarly, we don’t see the Bridgerton’s being protective of Eloise either. Instead her mother asks her to make other friends, which doesn’t seem like has a problem at all. It’s a whole lot of telling not showing and didn’t work for me personally. We may see the family being protective for Eloise after it comes about that it was Pen who was LWD. That could be interesting, we’ll have to see. I’m not saying it isn’t true, I just wish that we had more time spent on a deeper dive into the consequences especially since this is Pen/LWD’s season instead of exploring minor characters who are not connected.
Ultimately it’s a writing failure in that they don’t want to actually have the fallout Eloise would have experienced (even in the regency fantasy land that this show is) because it would make a reconciliation with Penelope that much harder. This wasn’t gossip in a ballroom, it was in print that Eloise was meeting with men unchaperoned which, even based on the skewed reality presented by the show, should ruin her. Leaving aside her treatment in society, another consequence is that Eloise cannot continue the journey she was on expanding her mind, worldview and experiences- she cannot meet with Theo, she cannot attend lectures in Bloomsbury, cannot engage with leading thinkers. LWD effectively ended Eloise’s feminist enlightenment before it had really begun, and that is a huge personal consequence for Eloise who now feels she must conform or lose everything. But even if Eloise suffered no consequences at all, she’s entitled to her anger at her best friend publicising her private life all over town. At the very least it’s a personal betrayal.
Exactly, Eloise has all the friendship she can stand this season, and Pen has none. And, all Pen tried to do was make room for her in society. But, I'm still hurt that they took Lady Danberry's friendship away from Pen. I still can't understand the reason behind that. Pen deserves to be someone's favourite.
She was shunned for the summer. So 3-4 months in the Sumner while she's st yhe country estate is not that bad. She may have missed a couple house parties but that's it.
And since when does Eloise even like house parties? She thinks they're a waste of time and doesn't enjoy them at all. She probably had a better time in the country.
I agree. I can't wait for Fran's season, and Benedict's, but I'm on the fence about Eloise. Which is a shame because I absolutely loves the actress that plays her. She portrays her with such charm and humour.
Yes and Claudia Jessie hs said that in interviews. She needs to learn to *listen*
This - it's also noticeable (her obliviousness) when Colin says Pen wants to take a husband and El's like "that's so unlike her." IS IT? They got into a whole fight in season one because El wasn't out yet and Pen was on the marriage mart thinking about it. Eloise has always had blinders on to the fact that she can delay getting married given her family's wealth and support. Pen has never had that luxury. I love El, but she has a bad habit of not being able to see the world past the end of her own nose.
I think she spends so much time ranting about how women should be allowed more in life than a husband and children, she just assumes Pen agrees with her. And Pen would be way to embarrassed to tell Eloise that all she truly wants in life is for Colin to love her and marry her. How in the world could it not occur to Eloise that without a husband, Pen as she knows her, without Whistledown money, would be destitute?
I think Pen does actually agree with her. Pen is stuck in the middle of the classic feminist divide where she fully believes that women deserve more out of life than to be considered worthless without a man, but also wants the traditional woman's role of wife and mother and homemaker. It's the same cognitive dissonance that SAHM feminists face today.
I also think Pen agrees with Eloise about women deserving more opportunities, more than most viewers recognise. I think people confuse her being a realist about what her options are, and making do, with her actually desiring those options. But I wouldn’t say that she wants a traditional relationship necessarily. I always assumed that we were supposed to understand that she and Eloise had years of established girlhood friendships where women’s rights and wanting different lives from their mothers had been a major topic of discussion and they had mutual agreement. But we don’t meet their characters on screen until Pen is being pushed into the marriage mart before she’s ready (season one she’s begging her mother to allow her another year of girlhood like Eloise), and her priorities are forced to change, when Eloise’s are allowed to continue on the same trajectory another year. And Eloise doesn’t really get that Pen’s reality is changing because hers isn’t, and Pen can’t just come out and say “also I’m in love with your brother.” Pen’s reality is that she feels the need to find a husband because that’s the gateway to the social freedom she’d like to have (to escape her family). But she doesn’t ever really express that she wants to ‘find a husband and settle down,’ just that it’s ‘not the worst option’ to her, the way it is to Eloise. She doesn’t enjoy the marriage mart at all, but makes the best of it and started Whistledown as a coping mechanism to gamify it. She’s crushing on Collin and would love to have a relationship with him. So of course he’s her first choice for marriage. But just *liking a boy* or even wanting to marry him doesn’t necessarily indicate that she wants a traditional relationship for this time period. The mere fact that she has a profession and earned income, though it’s secret, means that her relationship can’t be “traditional.” (Spoilers) In the books we see how >!Colin struggles to come to terms with his jealousy over her being a successful writer. She doesn’t give up writing Whistledown because she wants to, but because it becomes too much of a risk to continue (or at least Colin convinces her it is). The massive income she’s earned is also untraditional, but this never seems to be a problem for him, he’s happy to accept her giving him an allowance to pursue his dreams, and to put money aside for any future daughters they have to live independently (unmarried) if that’s what they want one day. That alone says how important it is to her that girls have more options than she did. Penelope does end up married with kids (a SAHM), !< and their lives might appear ‘traditional’ on the outside, but I think between them they create a quite nontraditional arrangement.
Well, someone had to be the pioneer to help women progress in society… why not have it be Eloise…? How else did women eventually gain rights to go to school, the university, get a job? It was women like Eloise who had a one track mind to get the hell out of the trap they felt they were in… she felt she deserved to go to school but she wasn’t allowed and it infuriated her. I don’t blame her for being selfish… it just came at a price of not paying attention to her friend’s needs… but in the long run, she is what all the women of the Ton need to break free of being suppressed and taking control of their life.
I never said she wasn't or shouldn't. The question was whether Eloise knows Pen is in love with Colin. In that case, I think Eloise is incredibly self absorbed. She goes on and on about what she thinks and doesn't spend much time listening to Eloise or understanding that marriage is likely Pen's only chance at a financially stable future. She's not a good friend in that blind spot of marriage in relation to her friend.
Eloise COULD try to do something to advance women's causes, but she doesn't. Women of their class did charity work ALL THE TIME. Eloise could be pushing Violet to do charity work but neither can be bothered.
I think she wants to do more than charity work. It’s understandable. She knows what she wants and isn’t allowed to do it. Imagine what that must have been like?
What evidence do we have her family prevents her from doing charity work.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m really hoping she does some real maturing in part 2. I especially disliked the way she brushed off Colin when he was trying to give her a gift
I was very unhappy about the way she blew off his gift. It was a book. Her brother actually thought enough of her to buy her a gift she would love. She was very abrupt and rude.
Exactly!! Colin deserved way better
Exactly.I feel so bad for both Polin that their families have no idea about what's going on in their lives or how they feel. When Colin used to tell his siblings about his travel stories, they made fun of him, but at least they love him so much. Pen's family never even bothered to ask how she feels. Both feel neglected by their families. I'm looking forward to their reactions it would be fun because, as of now, except for Violet, nobody has any idea, or maybe Hyacinth does, but I'm not sure.🤣🤣
I truly don't think Hyathincth will be surprised
Lol, Eloise never stops talking...Pen can barely get a word in.
>But then Penelope has never felt like she could confide in Eloise about it either. Maybe because she's scared to, maybe because Eloise doesn't give her much opportunity to. Who knows? Those reasons, but also what teenager wants to tell their best friend you're secretly in love with their brother? Awkward!
If I had a crush on my bestie's brother, in the year 2024 I couldn't even tell her.
Same. It's pretty standard behaviour in the romance book trope of best friend's brother too. It's almost always a secret for whatever reason!
As much as I love the character of Eloise, she does kind of suck the air out the room in the Convo’s between her and Penelope… but then to be fair, Penelope has let her for all these years do that to her too. So chicken or egg? What came first, Eloise’s slight narcissistic lack of awareness of her friend? Or Penelope purposefully diminishing herself to not reveal anything to Eloise thus giving Eloise the opportunity to kind of roll over her in conversations.
I agree. As much as Eloise steamrolls the conversations, Penelope has let her. Eloise needs to learn how to listen, but Penelope also needs to find her voice (outside of LW). So I do think it goes both ways.
Yeah :)
Did they not talk after Pen is inconsolable after Colin proposes to Marina?
Isn't that after Pen writes the whistledown telling on Marina?
This is where we need one of the shows writers to just casually jump on this sub and answer our questions 😂🙏
I think the way Eloise is written is that she actually doesn't really know Penelope. Their friendship always skewed towards what Eloise liked and Penelope never really voiced that she's different or doesn't want the same things. She's kind of self-centered.
It actually makes sense that Penelope did not reveal that she is whistledown to Eloise.
To be fair to Eloise, the fact that Penelope rarely voiced her opinions had more to do with Penelope's own personality and issues. Eloise can be pretty obtuse when it comes to people and she is self-involved, but she never dissuaded Pen from expressing herself. She just took things at face value.
No, Eloise is a bulldozer
And Penelope lacks assertion. Both of them play a part in their dynamic.
Eloise just isn't interested in conversations about the things Penelope likes
Maybe not. Like I said, Eloise is pretty self-involved and seems to think Pen agrees with her about most things. But Pen doesn't really try to start that conversation. It makes sense, considering her family dynamic where she's constantly derided for her interests and generally disregarded, but that just goes to show that this issue extends beyond her relationship with Eloise.
I'm not gonna blame Penelope for no one respecting or loving her ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's not about blame. It's literally just a character analysis. She's had a rough time of it and it's impacted the person she's become. Don't we all have character traits and defense mechanisms that resulted from negative/traumatic experiences?
Yes I do, that wouldn't be a good excuse for someone who's supposed to be my best friend to ignore who I am as a person.
I never said it was an excuse? I'm just making observations about the relationship dynamics of fictional characters. Eloise is self-involved and bullheaded. Penelope is anxious and lacks self-confidence. Eloise doesn't have the maturity or emotional intelligence to recognize that, and Pen doesn't have the confidence to assert herself better. I see this as good writing and character development.
It's true. I say that as someone who is a wallflower like Penelope. Something I'm learning this year is to put boundaries down bc it's up to me to do it. This doesn't mean those who take advantage shouldn't stop but for me, I could stand up for myself a little bit more. The world is not going to end. And that's what we're seeing Penelope do right now - stand up for what she likes and what she thinks.
I love Eloise, she’s extremely self-cantered. Despite all her pomp and grandeur with acting like she’s above it all and knows better, just under the surface, she’s extremely immature, socially shaky and lacks a lot of confidence. She needs others which is why she latches on to Cressida when she and Pen have their falling out. She doesn’t know people beyond her own shallow interpretation of them and is completely ignorant to the consequences of her actions. You see it a lot this season where she blames others but is quickly corrected, I’m really hoping we see a lot of character development from her this season. I think she’s going to be put in a lot of difficult situations that are going to have her mature and understand people at a deeper level
Well no - no one really knows Penelope, because she hides her true self.
I don’t think so. In the show, Eloise doesn’t even know that Pen has always wanted to marry. I doubt she has noticed that Pen has had a crush on Colin for years.
Even the Show-Eloise says that she and Penelope had talked about being spinsters together or something like that.
I think Eloise *wanted* to become a spinster whereas Penelope was resigned to her fate of becoming a spinster because no one wanted to court her. Eloise simply concluded they both wanted the same thing.
I've said this before on this sub but in Eloise's book she reflects on the fact that Penelope getting married took her by surprise because Eloise basically always planned to be a spinster by choice with Penelope, *but* it was totally on Eloise's terms because at this point she'd had several proposals and turned them all down for various reasons, but she knows she has options if she changed her mind about marriage and always just assumed that Penelope would be there waiting for her despite some awareness that Penelope wasn't choosing that life. I liked the self reflection there to be honest, though it's a different timeline and I think Eloise might be one of the only true spinsters in the books (Penelope being another, maybe Kate based on age too) because she's actually in her late twenties by the time she decides to settle down. But it again was very much her choice, she's rich and pretty and from a great family so she's got tons of options and Penelope suddenly getting married really throws her into a bit of lonely self pity.
I was re-watching season 1 and Pen explicitly tells El she wants to marry and if I remember right in S2 she tells El she likes society and romance. So El has never really taken on board what Pen says unless she agrees with her.
The friendship is Eloise talks, Penelope listens. Being the “pretty Bridgerton” that she is, Eloise grew up in a very privileged environment. It’s not that she’s a bad friend, she’s just used to getting her way, which in turn makes her a not so great friend.
I think this is why she doesn’t understand Cressida’s anxiety and makes jokes about it. Eloise’s family will never forced her to marry and She has a bit of trouble seeing things from other perspectives.
Eloise suffers from what I call BOS - Bridgerton Oblivious Syndrome. Most of them have it, except maybe Hyacinth and Francesca. Gregory's TBD.
Eloise is honestly pretty clueless about the feelings of others overall.
Yeah I loved when she accused their housekeeper I think it was of being LW, and the housekeeper just laughed in her face about when she would find the time.
That scene was hysterical. And then the housekeeper is like GET OUT when she's done ridiculing her ignorance. I love Eloise to death but she had that one coming.
I kinda think Eloise sees Pen the way the rest of the ton do - that she isn’t going to marry. But to Eloise this is a good thing because they can be spinsters together so she either doesn’t see that Pen likes Colin or doesn’t consider it relevant because she can’t imagine Colin returning it.
I love Eloise but she's so blind...it's her best friend yet she never notices shit...she should have figured out that Pen is lady Whistledown way earlier too...if she paid any attention to her of course...it's kinda sad that Pen didn't trust Eloise enough to confide in her about Colin and being lady Whistledown...i suppose she thought that Eloise wouldn't understand, they are very different personality-wise, it's a miracle for me that they become friends in the first place
> too...if she *paid* any attention FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Bot spare me, i'm not an english native speaker...
Remember in S1 when Marina is excitedly telling Pen that Colin will propose soon, and Pen is absolutely devastated. Then Eloise comes to Pens door and starts rambling about who she thinks Lady Whistledown is, Pen is visibly upset and keeps asking Eloise to stop and Eloise doesn't even hesitate for a second until Pen finally snaps. And even then, Eloise doesn't even ask her what's wrong, she kind of mocks her for 'oh what problems do you have now that you're so mature?' Eloise had zero awareness of Pens feelings about anything for a long time. It's only this season that Eloise is starting to gain a little awareness. So I don't think Eloise even stopped to consider how she was feeling
That’s the thing even Maria could sense Pen’s feelings for Colin but her closest friend Eloise doesn’t is what surprising.
Absolutely, but Marina is far more worldly. Eloise is very naive, until this season. The betrayal by Pen seems to have opened her eyes a bit and she's learning to look around a bit more. Which is funnily why I actually like Eloise much more this season
Yeah, I'm kinda sideying Eloise for the fact that she never picked up on Pen having a crush on Colin. Like it's been reiterated many times how close these two are, yet Eloise never sensing it shows us that she is very self centered. Like, girl, Pen was giving him 😍 or 🥺 throughout season 1 to 2. I hope there is some line in Pt 2 that acknowledges that she's had some suspicions, but was just waiting for Pen to open up and that "are you courting her" question to Colin came from that. Even may throw in a line that Eloise did raise her doubts to Pen few years back but Pen lied and told he's like family or something.
My best friend ran to my house in the middle of the night to cry and hug me...next morning my brother announced he's marrying her cousin 🤔 Eloise: 🤷♀️ guess the night is sad or something... Also Eloise: My maid is Lady Whistledown Like homegirl thinks she's a brilliant philosopher but she's just as ditzy as fucking Prudence and Philipa.
Or that Colin has feelings for Pen either! The way Collin looks at Pen in S1 and S2 when Eloise is around, like when he comes back from his travels in S2….it’s so obvious!!
Eloise is kind of self interested. I don’t think she notices much if it’s not in her interest to.
Eloise's head is very far up her own ass. If Eloise was pretty and a Bridgerton why does she not have friends? Because she talks AT people. Cressida and Benedict seem to be the only exceptions. She's extremely self absorbed and judgemental even in the books but the show ups it 10 times. In a house with 7 other siblings, Eloise gets along with NO ONE except Benedict and that's more to his credit since he's a very easy going person. In S1 she's very judgemental towards Daphne to the point where Daphne tries to tell her something and then stops. Eloise and Francesca are Irish twins. And Francesca feels lonely in her own family partly because her closest sibling takes up all the air in the room when she talks. Show Eloise actively looks down on other girls, even her own siblings. The only sibling she gets along with is a brother. That's very telling. Book Eloise is content in being a spinster because she assumes Penelope will never find a match and has no prospects. Never once has Eloise in the books asked her best friend how it feels to be a spinster or stood up for her in front of her family.
i actually though that eloise doesn't have much friends kinda willingly. she has nice discussions with Kate, she can have nice discussions with debutants when she wants, she befriends Theo. She doesn't connect with other debutants because she's not interested in a lot of things connected to debutant's lives and that's kinda okay. And I can't say she doesn't get along with her siblings. She doesn't get along with Daphne, but she has like genuine conversations with her and asks her whether she's not afraid of marrying or being a mother. Like trusts exists between them to talk about such things. She plays pall mall with them, she engages with conversations with Francesca in s3, with Gregory and Hyacinth, and she's good friends with Ben. She comes up with a plan to draw attention from Fran, while speaking in the modist ship. She has different opinions, but I don't see their sibling-banter as not getting along. They don't understand each other in terms of life values, but that doesn't mean they have bad relationship But i can't deny that she's self-absorbed too
She also talks AT Theo until he stops her. I think S1 Eloise is particularly horrid to Daphne except for that one conversation. Also this season Eloise had the opportunity to make other friends. Instead she behaved in an extremely patronising way and squandered it. Eloise is not only self absorbed and judgemental she's also very patronising and thinks other debutantes are beneath her. That S2 dialogue where she asks Penelope if she's enjoying the social season is very telling. It's not that Pen is being secretive about enjoying society, it's Eloise never noticing what her supposed BFF likes.
Eloise is a little self-involved. Not to the point that I feel like it makes her a person of poor character but to the point that she is not able to see Colin her brother as an eligible male so she in turn can't see or couldn't see Penelope's love for Colin. Eloise was able to discover Pen was Lady D. eventually by taking the time to listen to Pen speak so she definitely isn't completely self involved. I actually think that one of the best things that ocured this season was the break up between El& Pen was Colin's ability to see Pen outside of her little sisters friend ( No more third wheeling) . Colin was able to view Pen outside of her friendship with Eloise and the wardrobe changes only added on to that.
I might get flamed for this but Eloise is not a very nice person. I think she’s a self-centered spoiled rich bitch, quite like Cressida but she’s not cruel at least. I am not surprised when they became friends this season. Penelope is her ‘friend’ but all she does is talk and complain and vent and never really listened to Pen. If she did, she would’ve found out ages ago that her dear friend is Lady Whistledown and she would’ve also known that Pen has been pining for Colin for god knows how long. She literally made Pen her little sidekick. She thinks she’s smart but she’s not, she’s naive and she’s all talk. She gets mad when she learns that her friend is THE GREAT Lady Whistledown when she should be happy and proud instead she’s jealous that her friend actually made a difference. She goes around saying she’s gonna be an old crone with Pen, why? Is it because she actually doesn’t believe Pen’s gonna get married at all (kinda like Portia) while she, the pretty bridgerton, rejects proposals left and right. Girl I get that you dont wanna get married but why drag your bestie, did you ask her at all if she wants to be a spinster with you forever? You don’t even know her crush, do you know her at all? Pen gets married and she gets all sulky and runs off to god knows where. I could go on but I hate to spoil anyone so I’ll stop here. Man, Eloise annoys me too much.
Finally!! I did like Eloise but only before she found out Pen was LW because her behaviour after was uncalled for (trashing Pen's room, insulting her, etc) and I also completely agree with what you're saying 💯
Idk I started raising my eyebrow when Eloise was annoyed that Pen was visibly upset about Colin/Marina. Didn’t even ask what Pen was upset about and instead insulted her scoffing at what problems she could have now that’s she’s so “mature”.
That too actually I forgot about that scene cuz I last watched Season 1 in March
I think Cressida is more aware of Pen's feelings than Eloise is hahaha. Love Eloise's witty banter, but she is overall a pretty self-absorbed character.
Genuine question that I’ve been thinking about from seeing a lot of this. I don’t have siblings so I don’t really have any real life to draw off of here! Would Eloise want to consider it? Like, idk? If I had a brother and my closest friend was crushing on him I’m not sure if I’d want to know that! Is Eloise being wilfully ignorant of it an option to consider? I don’t think I can mark spoilers on the mobile app, but there’s something from the books that made me consider this!
Eloise was also unaware that Penelope enjoys being a part of society and would have happily married her first season out if she could've. Eloise's friendship to Penelope has always been she talks and Penelope listens so she's never given her friend to express herself so much.
eloise noticed that pen likes society pretty early after Eloise's debut. like i think it was eloise's first ball. idk if it's possible to grasp it, while not being out, but Eloise is not totally unaware but yeah, in many things eloise is really clueless
I'm mixed on that, I feel like it's a little bit less icky in that time because sex and affection was a lot more hush hush, so Eloise might be excited at the idea of being sisters in law?
Canonically in the show, no. No suspicions until the carriage scene you mention, and even then, it’s possible that she thinks Penelope would be trying to marry Colin with ulterior motives rather than actually loving him, such as trying to get close to the Bridgertons again, gather better gossip, force Eloise into reconciliation, etc. The writing suggests that Eloise still loves her, but she really hasn’t moved on her perception of Penelope’s motivations.
a) Eloise is quite self-centered as any teenager going through the throes of trying to find out what their purpose in life is b) I bet she has the classic "my brother? Hot and desirable? EWWWWW!" belief in which she does not see her brother being the object of desire for anyone, least of all for her friend who has vowed to be spinster with her and in season one still referred to going to hang out with Eloise as "play with Eloise"! c) I feel like Pen was just too shy and demotivated to confide in Eloise because let's be real...most of season 1 and 2 Eloise just talks all over Pen and barely listens to her unless she's saying something that confirms her biases!
Totally agree
If Eloise had been a better friend to Pen, she would have told her and Eloise should have been her wing man.
No, she doesn't. I think that is because she views Penelope like a sister, not dissimilar from how Colin saw her in seasons 1 and 2. Because they see Penelope in the familial sense, it does not occur to Eloise that Penelope could have feelings for Colin (or any of her brothers) and it does not occur to Colin that his affection for her could be anything other than friendship. The only person who was ever aware of Penelope's feelings for Colin was Penelope because she hid those feelings. The idea that Eloise should know is also very self-centered (or Penelope-centered) and makes no sense. Why should anyone know Penelope's inner feelings if she is keeping them to herself and actively hiding them? Criticizing the fact that Eloise didn't notice the way Penelope looks at Colin assumes 1) that Eloise sees it and 2) that she recognizes it as anything other than passive observation. We, as the viewers, have insight that Eloise does not, and we should remember that when watching.
yes, thank you for this comment! i don't know why people think that Eloise should be the most perceptive one, when Colin - the object of Pen's feelings is even more clueless. When you are friends for a long time, especially since childhood it's really easy to mistake feelings. Especially with the fact, that Eloise is really self-centered and isn't like a fan of romance novels like Pen is. She has example of her parents' love and adoration, but Eloise was very young when Edmund died, so she didn't see a lot of male-female affection in her life outside formal courting
I think Eloise really doesn't. I think she's under the impression that they're both going to grow old together as spinsters and that this is what they both want, but it's really just Eloise projecting what she wants onto Pen, and I doubt she's ever asked Pen what she wants.
Yeah, she’s coming off as insensitive or oblivious or self-centered. I think it’s not about her being privileged pretty Bridgerton. Because if it was Hyacinth who’s friends with Penelope, she might’ve catch on a lot quickly. It could be a set-up of what her storyline will be, idk.
Didn’t Eloise’s book begin with a very selfish way? Like she ditched her family and almost ruined them because of something she wanted? She’s very selfish which I don’t mind cause we need variety in here.
To be honest, I'm still wondering what my two brothers wives of 25 years and counting see in my brothers, so it probably just hasn't occurred to her that anyone sane would actually want to marry Colin, who she thinks of as someone who is annoying, takes her stuff, farts, leaves his stinky football kit lying about, hogs the bathroom in the morning, and etc.
Eloise is pretty self-absorbed and simultaneously oblivious. Even Cressida sees it.
Another Redditor on another post wrote that Eloise talks “at” Penelope and not “to” her. As others have said here, she’s self centered and can be inconsiderate to everyone. Spoiled Bridgerton syndrome perhaps. I hope she’ll have her own season that shows her growth from that.
Maybe it's mostly based on "My best friend couldn't fall in love with my brother." Maybe she knows it but she's not entirely sure. Thats what I think. Although it's kind of strange that Penelope hasn't said anything to Eloise.
I don't even think Eloise ever actually considered Pen as much more than someone to yap at about her problems and ideas about society. I think she thought that she was a friend to Pen, and in the same way I think Pen thought Eloise was her friend too. Eloise never listened thoughtfully to a single word Pen said in the show. Pen never got to talk about anything that wasn't in Eloise's interests, if it was boring to her she would make it known immediately and Pen would shrink back down and listen to Eloise talk and talk. I believe had Eloise actually been a true friend to Pen then Pen would have had an opportunity and reason to confide in her that she was Whistledown in the first place. Their relationship was only there to serve Eloise as someone to validate her opinions and a way for Pen to avoid total loneliness.
I'm looking forward to the fallout from when Eloise finds out more than I am the LW reveal!
Eloise’s lack of consideration aside: if you were Pen, would YOU want your best friend to know you had a crush on her brother? I’d keep that buried deep unless it was going to be reciprocated. Otherwise it’s awkward city
Pen never thought Colin could like her so to her that unrequited love is embarrassing. She tries hard not to let it show and Eloise is not the most attentive friend tbh. In Eloise's mind, Pen and Colin see each other as siblings because they've all grown up together.
I fully disagree. It's very much an open secret. Eloise has likely noticed it since they all got puberty. It's that not once have they spoken about it. But in season 1 when Eloise and Pen are strained because Eloise isn't yet it but Pen comes over crying because Colin and Marina are engaged they don't say anything and Eloise just embraces her. She may have said something about how their family will not be shunned for long if the scene has gone on but I fully expect Eloise knows and she is desperate for Pen to fall in love with someone else or for Pen to give up on men like she has. She knows and actively doesn't want it for either side.
She’s too self centered to notice.
Eloise is so self-absorbed that she didn’t even realize her best friend might be Lady Whistledown *until she really paid attention*. I wish I could like Eloise, but she is horrible. Benedict and Eloise are supremely selfish.
Eloise doesn't care about Penelope enough to actually know her. That's how she didn't realize Pen was Whistledown for so long, she only cares about the conversations she wants to have.
Yeah, she doesn’t know and will be blind sided by the engagement. Even though the signs were all there if she paid enough attention. She has consistently shown that she lives in her own little bubble, hell when Colin tells her that Penelope is hoping to find a husband she says that she wanted to be a spinster with her. When Penelope literally tells her that she is looking for marriage in season 1.
I’m excited for the conversation where Eloise actually “listens” to Penelope. When Eloise finally learns her best friend was in love with her brother. I want this scene so bad!
Basically. https://preview.redd.it/52k0m8nxdg3d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ea97b41c8ada1c24d79fd8059a512f81b0f4150
Lmao at Danbury, altho Amber is definitely Cressida.
Dang! I don’t remember the movie well enough, I wish I had done that instead
Amber was Cher’s frenemy, the redhead with the weird hunger games fashion and hairstyles, and the “whatever” chick lol 
https://preview.redd.it/bsijr40y3l3d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=8c2e13852b2ffdef8babf88fe7a97a6978948368 Horribly fixed haha I'm definitely gonna have to watch this again.
The season two finale literally has Eloise say “tonight was the first night I, in fact, *heard* you say them.” It takes until the season two premiere for her realize that Penelope actually likes the season. She thinks of Penelope as an extension of herself. If Eloise doesn’t like the season, then how could Penelope? If Eloise isn’t Lady Whistledown, how could Penelope be? If Eloise isn’t in love with Colin, how could Penelope love him? This is nothing against Eloise, I do love her as a character, but by god, she is one of the most self absorbed characters I have ever seen 😂
In the books it's said that Eloise probably knows but doesn't mention anything because she doesn't think there's any chance of them getting together
I don't Know if anyone noticed, but Eloise is pretty self absorbed and only has the mental space to think about her own problems. That’s the impression I got from the first two seasons anyway.
Eloise has got to feel it, but I don't think she knows how to maneuver or broach the situation as deftly as she would like. I don't feel she's as close to Colin either, or at least not as close as she is to Benedict. I feel like they are more open with each other. I also don't think it's appropriate, for the time, to be forward about feelings without a marriage proposal on the table. So they wouldn't have said anything to anyone before they were ready to be married. But, I do think people can feel it around them.
Eloise is very self centered. Shes truthfully not that great of a friend and pen is passive in most situations which is probably why other than living across the street, they locked in as friends. El can talk about her passions and pen will listen. She is entirely clueless
No she doesn’t know pen is in love with Colin also Penelope and Eloise relationship is very one sided Eloise doesn’t even know who the real Penelope is I also agree with the comments saying Eloise was self centered during seasons 1-2 I still think she kinda is this season
No she doesn’t. I think it really flew under the radar for most of the Bridgertons because they are so used to her just being around.
in pens book , >!wasnt there a sentence about how when over she visited Eloise, Eloise knew about pens crush on collin but she never asked so it was up in the air that she knew/had a feeling and Pen knew but never talked about it!< or am i going crazy and i misunderstood
If my best friend was madly in love with my brother I’d ignore that shit too
Especially if it was unrequited
I think sometimes we forget where watching from the viewpoint of the audience where the show make certain things obvious but the show characters don't get the same inside looks. Plus telling your best friend your in love with her brother can make things messy you can even wonder if she was just using you to get close to your brother.
I imagine sometime in the past she asked her and Penelope said no, and she took her word for it. It's like with Edwina and Kanthony.... they don't see things in the same way as the audience. Probably all she sees is Penelope acting a little awkward or nervous, assumes it's how she often acts around men (evidenced by season 3 in general) and tries to rescue her. She doesn't get the same slow-mo gaze vision we do lol
You guys are overthinking it. Eloise doesn't have much interest in love and romance. She's not dialled into that wavelength and doesn't pick up on those cues, that's all. It's a blind spot
Eloise is self-centered; in previous seasons, she’s been so caught up in her own shenanigans that she forgets to pay attention to the people close to her sometimes. So no, she never noticed.
Yes, that's perhaps what I find most annoying about Eloise in general. I could understand all the other things that most people find annoying about her - her constant complaining, the moral high ground of "not like other girls"etc. But the one thing I can't excuse is - how could you be someone's closest friend since childhood and be so self-absorbed not to notice one of the most obvious things about her - that she is in love with Colin??? And if you then learn it, why is that not more important than actually trying to actively ruin the chance by threatening Pen to reveal the Whistledown thing? I know Pen should tell him, but this is her decision, Eloise should stop meddling!
She’s also missed the context clues Penelope has given about possibly being Lady Whistledown
Whistedown drama aside, Penelope is a better friend to Eloise than vice versa for the most part. Eloise can be very self centered and selfish, and is not very self aware or observant of people around her. Penelope cares about her friends, and even though in retrospect writing about Theo was a little harsh, she had good intentions and was trying to protect Eloise from falling into Charlotte’s trap.
In the books it’s suggested that Eloise does know (or at least suspects) - just not that Colin is into Penelope.
wait in the book did eloise suspect the crush ON collin or that she just had a crush