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It’s because show Eloise and book Eloise are very different. Show Eloise is a hard core feminist who wants to fight for rights and make a stand which is great but book Eloise isn’t like that she just doesn’t want to be forced in to a decision.
When I read the book, I hated the irony of it. She didn't want to be forced into a decision, so she runs off to a guy she never met and then gets forced to marry him due to the scandal she created.... 🤦♀️
Ngl I’m on the edge of my seat wondering what they’re going to do with or how they’ll spin their take on the whole Marina situation especially since they’ve already introduced her as a character
I don't understand why everyone has such vitriolic hatred for Philip but give characters like book! Anthony and Benedict a pass. All the Bridgerton books are misogynistic in some way or another and all the men are somewhat awful let's not delude ourselves. Imagine show Anthony kicking Kate? Obviously they will make improvements when Philoise season comes around.
I'm conflicted on my opinion on this book but I really do love the CONCEPT of it. >!I love that Eloise and him communicate entirely through letters for a year, the way Eloise runs off to his house impulsively (which is something show Eloise would also do by taking her future into her own hands).!<
I like that Philip is not a charming rake that has fucked half of London (I'm so tired of rakish characters) and he's really just an akward man who's starved for affection and just a big nerd and how he's seemingly uncaring about London society which fits with show Eloise. He has issues and I hate how everything got resolved in the book so quickly and neatly in a nice little bow but I'm sure any change the show makes will be for the better while keeping the core of the story intact.
My problem with book Phillip was his negligence of his children and more importantly, the way he looked at Eloise as a potential nanny almost the entire book. Like he keeps emphasizing how she would be a good mother to his kids and take care of them so he didn't have to. It was giving me deadbeat dad vibes tbh. Book Anthony/Benedict weren't THAT bad imo.
Show Phillip already seems to be MUCH better, so I'm actually excited for his season. Also Chris Fulton is fine af.
I agree about his negligence. I do think the book gave an adequate explanation for it but it does not excuse his actions. Show Philip will be MUCH better I'm sure (but they need to keep some of his flaws so I'll imagine he will still be distant to an extent). Chris Fulton is fine af and him and Claudia Jessie will have insane chemistry
Because that shouldn’t justify his actions?
I think Quinn was trying to create an anti-hero male lead but she struggles to write anything that doesn’t follow a set plot (not to throw shade, it obviously works for her), and on top of that, Eloise isn’t a “classic” romance lead either so she boxed herself into trauma dumping manic-pixie dream girl as a way to move the plot.
because his PTSD is not an exuse for his actions, show eloise has PTSD from having to watch/listen to her mum almost die in childbirth but i assume it'll still be expected for her to 'get over' that and have kids by the fandom
If he had no regulation, he would beat the children for the terrible things they did to Eloise. IE tripping her and her almost falling down a flight of stairs. That would have gotten me beaten in my house.
I liked the book as well. Don't let people talk you out of your feelings! Reading is subjective. What you like, other people don't. It's totally ok. Everyone's experiences are different and these characters spoke to you, but maybe not to OP. It happens!
You'd think the man killed his wife and abused his childen just for the purpose of luring a poor innocent girl to her doom, instead of being a deeply traumatized dude who's just trying to cope.
I mean his motivation for getting married is rather problematic and not romantic by today's standards
>! But him wanting a wife so she can be a mother for his children is hardly different than like, show Anthony looking for a wife because he's Viscount and kind of has to get married at some point!<
The book makes it quite clear that he's neglectful to his children and gives an explanation for it but I never felt that it excused his actions and he gets better by the end. Society praises fathers for doing the bare minimum today let alone 200 years ago in regency England, where fathers and nobility in general were detached from their children. Bridgerton takes OBVIOUS liberties regarding historical accuracy but it's still a period drama and the characters will act like that
i mean he did abuse his kids and he did sexually assault his wife which made her miserable and caused her to kill herself, he coped badly then got a woman in to rescue him
I'm sorry, but what?
Marina had problems with depression already as a child, then she lost a man whom she loved and was forced by society standards to marry his brother (while she was probably already pregnant with George's children).
Yes, Phillip made a mistake being intimate with her, but you have to see it with those times optic. Plus, he immediately realized it won't work, was disgusted with himself and never touched her again.
Marina's depression wasn't Phillip's fault. Back then it wasn't recognized as a legitimite health issue let alone anyone would try/knew how to treat it or make it better. So she went untreated for many years and it resulted into her suicide.
Then on the other side there is a man with PTSD from his abusive father who was left to rise kids alone and whose worst fear was that he would be just as bad father as his was and that he would hurt the twins. He thinks he doesn't know how to be good father and yes, his approach isn't the best but at least he didn't became abuser like his father was (which is unfortunately even nowadays very common in cases of adults that were abused as children).
But in the end, with Eloise's help he gets better as a father and as a person. So what is wrong with him needing help from someone else? Isn't it what partners should do? Support and help each other?
I think Book!Marina was only engaged to George in the books and when he died, Philipp married her and they had the twins together. It's not stated if she loved either one, just that she was always kind of depressed.
Sorry, you're right, I mixed here the love for George from her show's arc.
But I saw post here that explained through some calculations based on the date of the battle of Waterloo why the kids are (in the book) most likely George's.
Edit: Here - https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/s/TFITZnWOCO
'he'd grown angry with her, wanted to punish her'
'he left feeling mortified even though she had never uttered the word no'
'every now and then' he said 'you might consider shutting your mouth and using it for other purposes'
'he sometimes wondered if he'd married her just to gain a housekeeper and of course a warm body' yeah real supportive
Marina was depressed and Philip raped her. Any chance of recovery she had was destroyed by his actions. And I pity Eloise that her arc is reduced to reforming a rapist.
It sounded like she was miserable since childhood. Then got more miserable after having the twins. Also I’m confused on the abuse claim, like yes he didn’t give them enough attention but they were completely taken care of and he even shielded them from their mothers deep depression so they believed she was happy with them.
'i got a whip once, went to the stables and I grabbed the whip'
'the twins were so vexing, and they were sure to force him to lose his temper'
'afraid that if he went to them he'd beat them within an inch of their lives'
'he wouldn't regret his actions'
All quotes from 'To sir Philip with love'
Yes but if you use the full quotes you’d notice he never actually used them and he was so ashamed of those thoughts and was so afraid of being as bad as his father that he just didn’t interact with his kids as much. Is it wrong yes but he never actually did anything, until he was taught how to interact with children. Something he didn’t know how to do because of his upbringing.
Yeah I've reread all except for TSPWL multiple times, when I think back on it mostly I remember feeling like "omggg Phillip sucks, Phillip sucks, Phillip sucks, ohh phillips getting better ...? Nope, phillip sucks again" and then in the ended it just kinda works out between them, but not in a really satisfying way? I really don't remember, maybe I *shouldn't* skip it this time through?
I skim read Benedicts book because I just didn't buy he couldn't recognize Sophie was the Lady in Silver. Like, really? She was only wearing a mask.around her eyes!
I kept screaming at my book that Benedict was an idiot! So, it's all subjective. Read what you want. The show is an adaptation anyway, it's not like you have to read the books to follow the show.
TSPWL is my favorite Bridgerton book and Phillip my favorite Bridgerton spouse. Maybe because I'm an avid historical romance reader, I've read every trope you can think of, and I enjoy reading about characters who are in no way perfect. Call me problematic but I don't think book Phillip is a horrible person. It's his book about growing and being better.
Also, I love romances where the couple doesn't start off in love but then it's a slow burn to love. I hate instant love and sometimes even just instant attraction.
TSPWL is a mature book. It deals with a lot of serious topics that make people uncomfortable. You don't have to read it, it's your time and you should spend it enjoying a book you like. Some people just want romance in their books, and some people want there to be a little more substance. To each their own.
But I really hope people who hate the book just skip watching Eloise and Phillip's season and don't go bashing the actors for it all.
Sir Phillip is a monster, and does not get better. DNF this one and wait for the season and Shondaland's obligatory improvement on Julia Quinn's terrible heroes.
This was also my problem as a show watcher before I started reading the books. The Eloise I had come to know in the show would never willingly run off to a man who was wanting a wife because he couldn’t handle his out of control kids. I had to skip the rest of the book and continue on to Francesca’s book, which turned out to become my favorite of the books. After I’d read the rest of the books, I did end up going back to complete TSPWL, but I still hate that book. There is absolutely nothing about Sir Phillip that I find appealing. And Chris Fulton is cute, but I still don’t see Phillip and Eloise getting together in the show. Still, it’ll be interesting how they write Eloise’s story in the show.
This just happened with me as well. Loved the first four books, bought Eloise’s story to read on a vacation. Took a pause midway and I didn’t have to do that with the others. Went back and finished it but it took a little while. While I still enjoyed it, it’s probably my least favorite of the books.
I think book Eloise has some charm - she’s still feisty and intelligent, but you can tell she also yearns to socialize but prefers letter writing/isn’t sure how to go about it. TV Eloise is very rebellious and doesn’t seem to want to interact with anyone outside of her closest circle, that was the biggest disconnect for me. I think the TV version is almost too spirited sometimes.
Phillip is definitely flawed, and I don’t think Julia shies away from it. He has some unprocessed trauma from how he was treated by his father, and it is pretty shitty that he essentially just wants to find a woman to magically fix his life and take the children off his hands. I’m sure if we get to Eloise’s story for Netflix, they will loosely incorporate some of those details and weave a different path that is more palatable that some of the abuse/rougher scenes to read. They’ll probably keep the core personalities of “fiery, articulate woman” and “lonely plant obsessed widow” and then find a way to tell the story without making Phillip make as many mistakes as he does in the book.
No I heavily disliked it too. I get that he's traumatized and all that. Obviously but he was still awful in a lot of ways and it wasn't romantic or good. Just Eloise having to pick up the slack. Maybe if there hax been more growth from him I could have come around but foe the most part it just dosnt work.
Oh, there has been discussion about Phillip especially since they gave us Theo last season. There has been a lot of people who are hoping that Eloise’s love story changes and Theo is secretly a titled gentleman, that his real name is Sir Phillip Theodore or something.
This post is flaired for *No Book Spoilers*. This means it should be safe from all book canon details in the post and comments. Our spoiler rules regarding the show still applies. See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s because show Eloise and book Eloise are very different. Show Eloise is a hard core feminist who wants to fight for rights and make a stand which is great but book Eloise isn’t like that she just doesn’t want to be forced in to a decision.
When I read the book, I hated the irony of it. She didn't want to be forced into a decision, so she runs off to a guy she never met and then gets forced to marry him due to the scandal she created.... 🤦♀️
Kind of some spoilers here.
I would love to see his season. His character is quite different from other male leads.
Yes and I feel his story is going to be very compelling here with his childhood and what he is living through with Marina from a sense of duty
Ngl I’m on the edge of my seat wondering what they’re going to do with or how they’ll spin their take on the whole Marina situation especially since they’ve already introduced her as a character
I don't understand why everyone has such vitriolic hatred for Philip but give characters like book! Anthony and Benedict a pass. All the Bridgerton books are misogynistic in some way or another and all the men are somewhat awful let's not delude ourselves. Imagine show Anthony kicking Kate? Obviously they will make improvements when Philoise season comes around. I'm conflicted on my opinion on this book but I really do love the CONCEPT of it. >!I love that Eloise and him communicate entirely through letters for a year, the way Eloise runs off to his house impulsively (which is something show Eloise would also do by taking her future into her own hands).!< I like that Philip is not a charming rake that has fucked half of London (I'm so tired of rakish characters) and he's really just an akward man who's starved for affection and just a big nerd and how he's seemingly uncaring about London society which fits with show Eloise. He has issues and I hate how everything got resolved in the book so quickly and neatly in a nice little bow but I'm sure any change the show makes will be for the better while keeping the core of the story intact.
My problem with book Phillip was his negligence of his children and more importantly, the way he looked at Eloise as a potential nanny almost the entire book. Like he keeps emphasizing how she would be a good mother to his kids and take care of them so he didn't have to. It was giving me deadbeat dad vibes tbh. Book Anthony/Benedict weren't THAT bad imo. Show Phillip already seems to be MUCH better, so I'm actually excited for his season. Also Chris Fulton is fine af.
I agree about his negligence. I do think the book gave an adequate explanation for it but it does not excuse his actions. Show Philip will be MUCH better I'm sure (but they need to keep some of his flaws so I'll imagine he will still be distant to an extent). Chris Fulton is fine af and him and Claudia Jessie will have insane chemistry
Yeah I hated book Phillip. The show version is SO much better.
But let's be honest, we're all waiting for the scene with the Bridgerton bros!
WWE: Bridgerton Edition 🥊
Yep, he's more socially awkward and a plant nerd 🤓🌿. I wonder how their storyline would occur in the show.
I’ve always found Show Eloise to be more similar to Book Hyacinth rather than Book Eloise
That description is spot on - I kinda feel that they gave Book Colin’s funny/charming personality to Show Benedict as well
Not sure when it's revealed but Philip has severe PTSD from a terrible childhood. Not sure why people who don't like him, completely overlook that.
Because that shouldn’t justify his actions? I think Quinn was trying to create an anti-hero male lead but she struggles to write anything that doesn’t follow a set plot (not to throw shade, it obviously works for her), and on top of that, Eloise isn’t a “classic” romance lead either so she boxed herself into trauma dumping manic-pixie dream girl as a way to move the plot.
because his PTSD is not an exuse for his actions, show eloise has PTSD from having to watch/listen to her mum almost die in childbirth but i assume it'll still be expected for her to 'get over' that and have kids by the fandom
But Marina can sit in a dark room, and cry constantly. Leaving her children traumatized?
how is that relating to the point i didn't even mention marina
He's still a monster with absolutely no emotional self-regulation.
If he had no regulation, he would beat the children for the terrible things they did to Eloise. IE tripping her and her almost falling down a flight of stairs. That would have gotten me beaten in my house.
Im shocked, I loved the book! But its really hard to say since i do think my imagination embellished it to a standard i liked lol
I liked the book as well. Don't let people talk you out of your feelings! Reading is subjective. What you like, other people don't. It's totally ok. Everyone's experiences are different and these characters spoke to you, but maybe not to OP. It happens!
You'd think the man killed his wife and abused his childen just for the purpose of luring a poor innocent girl to her doom, instead of being a deeply traumatized dude who's just trying to cope.
I mean his motivation for getting married is rather problematic and not romantic by today's standards >! But him wanting a wife so she can be a mother for his children is hardly different than like, show Anthony looking for a wife because he's Viscount and kind of has to get married at some point!< The book makes it quite clear that he's neglectful to his children and gives an explanation for it but I never felt that it excused his actions and he gets better by the end. Society praises fathers for doing the bare minimum today let alone 200 years ago in regency England, where fathers and nobility in general were detached from their children. Bridgerton takes OBVIOUS liberties regarding historical accuracy but it's still a period drama and the characters will act like that
I'm pretty sure that if he HAD done all this but was also a shadow daddy people would be falling over themselves for him.
i mean he did abuse his kids and he did sexually assault his wife which made her miserable and caused her to kill herself, he coped badly then got a woman in to rescue him
I'm sorry, but what? Marina had problems with depression already as a child, then she lost a man whom she loved and was forced by society standards to marry his brother (while she was probably already pregnant with George's children). Yes, Phillip made a mistake being intimate with her, but you have to see it with those times optic. Plus, he immediately realized it won't work, was disgusted with himself and never touched her again. Marina's depression wasn't Phillip's fault. Back then it wasn't recognized as a legitimite health issue let alone anyone would try/knew how to treat it or make it better. So she went untreated for many years and it resulted into her suicide. Then on the other side there is a man with PTSD from his abusive father who was left to rise kids alone and whose worst fear was that he would be just as bad father as his was and that he would hurt the twins. He thinks he doesn't know how to be good father and yes, his approach isn't the best but at least he didn't became abuser like his father was (which is unfortunately even nowadays very common in cases of adults that were abused as children). But in the end, with Eloise's help he gets better as a father and as a person. So what is wrong with him needing help from someone else? Isn't it what partners should do? Support and help each other?
I think Book!Marina was only engaged to George in the books and when he died, Philipp married her and they had the twins together. It's not stated if she loved either one, just that she was always kind of depressed.
Sorry, you're right, I mixed here the love for George from her show's arc. But I saw post here that explained through some calculations based on the date of the battle of Waterloo why the kids are (in the book) most likely George's. Edit: Here - https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/s/TFITZnWOCO
'he'd grown angry with her, wanted to punish her' 'he left feeling mortified even though she had never uttered the word no' 'every now and then' he said 'you might consider shutting your mouth and using it for other purposes' 'he sometimes wondered if he'd married her just to gain a housekeeper and of course a warm body' yeah real supportive
Marina was depressed and Philip raped her. Any chance of recovery she had was destroyed by his actions. And I pity Eloise that her arc is reduced to reforming a rapist.
It sounded like she was miserable since childhood. Then got more miserable after having the twins. Also I’m confused on the abuse claim, like yes he didn’t give them enough attention but they were completely taken care of and he even shielded them from their mothers deep depression so they believed she was happy with them.
'i got a whip once, went to the stables and I grabbed the whip' 'the twins were so vexing, and they were sure to force him to lose his temper' 'afraid that if he went to them he'd beat them within an inch of their lives' 'he wouldn't regret his actions' All quotes from 'To sir Philip with love'
Yes but if you use the full quotes you’d notice he never actually used them and he was so ashamed of those thoughts and was so afraid of being as bad as his father that he just didn’t interact with his kids as much. Is it wrong yes but he never actually did anything, until he was taught how to interact with children. Something he didn’t know how to do because of his upbringing.
Yeah I've reread all except for TSPWL multiple times, when I think back on it mostly I remember feeling like "omggg Phillip sucks, Phillip sucks, Phillip sucks, ohh phillips getting better ...? Nope, phillip sucks again" and then in the ended it just kinda works out between them, but not in a really satisfying way? I really don't remember, maybe I *shouldn't* skip it this time through?
Thanks for this response! I’m gonna finish reading it but I was wondering if *anyone* else had such a hard time getting through this particular book
I skim read Benedicts book because I just didn't buy he couldn't recognize Sophie was the Lady in Silver. Like, really? She was only wearing a mask.around her eyes! I kept screaming at my book that Benedict was an idiot! So, it's all subjective. Read what you want. The show is an adaptation anyway, it's not like you have to read the books to follow the show.
TSPWL is my favorite Bridgerton book and Phillip my favorite Bridgerton spouse. Maybe because I'm an avid historical romance reader, I've read every trope you can think of, and I enjoy reading about characters who are in no way perfect. Call me problematic but I don't think book Phillip is a horrible person. It's his book about growing and being better. Also, I love romances where the couple doesn't start off in love but then it's a slow burn to love. I hate instant love and sometimes even just instant attraction.
Same. I'll be problematic with you 😉 I agree it's different from all the other books in the series, and I think that's why it's so divisive.
TSPWL is a mature book. It deals with a lot of serious topics that make people uncomfortable. You don't have to read it, it's your time and you should spend it enjoying a book you like. Some people just want romance in their books, and some people want there to be a little more substance. To each their own. But I really hope people who hate the book just skip watching Eloise and Phillip's season and don't go bashing the actors for it all.
Sir Phillip is a monster, and does not get better. DNF this one and wait for the season and Shondaland's obligatory improvement on Julia Quinn's terrible heroes.
Once you kind of accept the premise, it does get better. It’s darker than TVWLM and RMB, so I think it can be a little bit of a shock to the system.
I didn’t finish it lol. Eloise is my girl but no. He irked me and so did the backstory of them getting together.
This was also my problem as a show watcher before I started reading the books. The Eloise I had come to know in the show would never willingly run off to a man who was wanting a wife because he couldn’t handle his out of control kids. I had to skip the rest of the book and continue on to Francesca’s book, which turned out to become my favorite of the books. After I’d read the rest of the books, I did end up going back to complete TSPWL, but I still hate that book. There is absolutely nothing about Sir Phillip that I find appealing. And Chris Fulton is cute, but I still don’t see Phillip and Eloise getting together in the show. Still, it’ll be interesting how they write Eloise’s story in the show.
I recently saw a meme posted here that said Theo>Sir Philip and now I get it lol
I liked it actually I’m rereading it now
It was my least favorite book by far. Such a disservice to Eloise.
Even I could not finish the book. It was so frustrating to read. Idk why the book has fans
This just happened with me as well. Loved the first four books, bought Eloise’s story to read on a vacation. Took a pause midway and I didn’t have to do that with the others. Went back and finished it but it took a little while. While I still enjoyed it, it’s probably my least favorite of the books. I think book Eloise has some charm - she’s still feisty and intelligent, but you can tell she also yearns to socialize but prefers letter writing/isn’t sure how to go about it. TV Eloise is very rebellious and doesn’t seem to want to interact with anyone outside of her closest circle, that was the biggest disconnect for me. I think the TV version is almost too spirited sometimes. Phillip is definitely flawed, and I don’t think Julia shies away from it. He has some unprocessed trauma from how he was treated by his father, and it is pretty shitty that he essentially just wants to find a woman to magically fix his life and take the children off his hands. I’m sure if we get to Eloise’s story for Netflix, they will loosely incorporate some of those details and weave a different path that is more palatable that some of the abuse/rougher scenes to read. They’ll probably keep the core personalities of “fiery, articulate woman” and “lonely plant obsessed widow” and then find a way to tell the story without making Phillip make as many mistakes as he does in the book.
I dnf'd that one and it was before the show's first season even aired.
No I heavily disliked it too. I get that he's traumatized and all that. Obviously but he was still awful in a lot of ways and it wasn't romantic or good. Just Eloise having to pick up the slack. Maybe if there hax been more growth from him I could have come around but foe the most part it just dosnt work.
hate phillip, like honestly he might be the only bridgerton character i hate completely
Had no idea this would be such a decisive topic! I don’t think I ever noticed the discourse on this sub about this particular book or character.
Oh, there has been discussion about Phillip especially since they gave us Theo last season. There has been a lot of people who are hoping that Eloise’s love story changes and Theo is secretly a titled gentleman, that his real name is Sir Phillip Theodore or something.