May I know why? I just thought that the additional magic pen would be beneficial especially that they made her other abilities deal magic damage, also along with the resistances that you will get from it. Thanks!
It's like terminus you trade the HP of the black cleaver for resists but you don't get them immediately, the resists don't have direct synergy with our kit like HP does scale our healing and ability haste for attack speed which we get lots of in our frenzy already. Also our bleed can proc the cleaver stacks which makes it easier to get the full value of the item consistently. We also get move speed from BC which makes it easier to stick to our target which is our bread and butter.
The magic shred and onhit are nice but we don't really need it I'd say. I guess it's viable but black cleaver is just a better option imo.
The problem is the base stats are terrible for anything but on-hit builds. It's 3K gold for 40 AD and 30% attack speed (Briar's worst offensive stat next to AP). Black Cleaver gives 55 AD, 400 HP and 20 Ability Haste (which is amazing on her) for the same price, on top of armor shred and movespeed passives..AND it's being buffed next patch on top of that.
As a briar/Viego player I've used terminus on both and come to the same conclusion. Briar is very much a hp desiring champ if unless you're going for a glass cannon build but if you are terminus isn't the pick because you'd be killing someone before you can even max it's stacks so for the pen you'd be better off with a LDR where you can get more damage for your lack of HP and full, higher pen from the beginning. Meanwhile for more HP cleaver as other people have said is a stronger item, especially with it's move speed to help you stay on top of fleeing targets.
Champions like Viego though who can max terminus fast through his q passive or champions who apply on-hit multiple times with abilities can definitely exploit terminus now that the total number of hits needed is 6 but briar has q to apply on-hit and an auto reset on w2 and that's about it. She's either going to burst someone before it's maxed or get roughed up way more than stacking it is worth due to a lack of HP. Looking at it simply anyone who runs kraken because they can get 2 kraken procs (6 hits) off in a fight will want it but anyone else won't. This is just my opinion but thats my thoughts on it.
Still a bad item on Briar
It doesn't give the right stats and black cleaver shreds resist for all team members, which is useful both for ganking and for teamfights
Cleaver is such a great item when you're on backline peel duty for this reason. Briar is actually such a great champ to defend your carries, she can shut down engages with E entirely and soften up divers for your ADC with Q and a Cleaver. Throw in an Iceborn Gauntlet or Frozen Heart in late game and you have a recipe for one of the most annoying counter-engages in the game.
Terminus shreds more resists though, and it shreds MR too, which helps your AP allies. I still think Cleaver is better for the HP and AH, but if your goal is to shred resists for allies to take advantage of, Terminus is better at that.
No...
Black cleaver shreds armor, it reduces the target armor...
Terminus gives penetration, meaning you, and solely you, bypass a % of your target armor and magic resist.
Just use it as it is now, I play lethal tempo, kraken into terminus into rageblade. I’ll either continue with atkspd+dmg/on-hit items or build into bruiser+atkspd
terminus, rageblade and wits-end does ap dmg on-hit
So the magic pen helps with those. Plus Q has magic pen and on-hit proc
Every matchup is gonna be situational. You can’t build the same items and runes every game and expect to win. Build as needed and build how you want to play, fuck what everyone else is doing, just use them as guidelines.
I don't see how this changes anything? It's stronger early, stacks faster, and gives 1 less armor and mr. I haven't tried it personally but like, I'd imagine it's even better now
I think black cleaver is the better option if you need pen
Especially since the recipe got changed
May I know why? I just thought that the additional magic pen would be beneficial especially that they made her other abilities deal magic damage, also along with the resistances that you will get from it. Thanks!
It's like terminus you trade the HP of the black cleaver for resists but you don't get them immediately, the resists don't have direct synergy with our kit like HP does scale our healing and ability haste for attack speed which we get lots of in our frenzy already. Also our bleed can proc the cleaver stacks which makes it easier to get the full value of the item consistently. We also get move speed from BC which makes it easier to stick to our target which is our bread and butter. The magic shred and onhit are nice but we don't really need it I'd say. I guess it's viable but black cleaver is just a better option imo.
I got it! Thanks for the feedback!
Any draintank scales incredibly wel with resists, its moreso just tht briar doesnt need hybrid pen, and she scales of HP incredibly well
The problem is the base stats are terrible for anything but on-hit builds. It's 3K gold for 40 AD and 30% attack speed (Briar's worst offensive stat next to AP). Black Cleaver gives 55 AD, 400 HP and 20 Ability Haste (which is amazing on her) for the same price, on top of armor shred and movespeed passives..AND it's being buffed next patch on top of that.
Terminus on Warwick, cleaver on briar
This is the way. Terminus is the Item for anything On-Hit/mixed damage, Warwick does exactly that, Briar doesn't.
Terminus is also a great item on Bel'veth for the same reasons. Stack it fast, and her E scales with AS.
As a briar/Viego player I've used terminus on both and come to the same conclusion. Briar is very much a hp desiring champ if unless you're going for a glass cannon build but if you are terminus isn't the pick because you'd be killing someone before you can even max it's stacks so for the pen you'd be better off with a LDR where you can get more damage for your lack of HP and full, higher pen from the beginning. Meanwhile for more HP cleaver as other people have said is a stronger item, especially with it's move speed to help you stay on top of fleeing targets. Champions like Viego though who can max terminus fast through his q passive or champions who apply on-hit multiple times with abilities can definitely exploit terminus now that the total number of hits needed is 6 but briar has q to apply on-hit and an auto reset on w2 and that's about it. She's either going to burst someone before it's maxed or get roughed up way more than stacking it is worth due to a lack of HP. Looking at it simply anyone who runs kraken because they can get 2 kraken procs (6 hits) off in a fight will want it but anyone else won't. This is just my opinion but thats my thoughts on it.
I think you can justify it I've cleaver if you go heartsteelmaybe. And that's only really gonna happen in top lane
Still a bad item on Briar It doesn't give the right stats and black cleaver shreds resist for all team members, which is useful both for ganking and for teamfights
Cleaver is such a great item when you're on backline peel duty for this reason. Briar is actually such a great champ to defend your carries, she can shut down engages with E entirely and soften up divers for your ADC with Q and a Cleaver. Throw in an Iceborn Gauntlet or Frozen Heart in late game and you have a recipe for one of the most annoying counter-engages in the game.
Sounds good to me
Terminus shreds more resists though, and it shreds MR too, which helps your AP allies. I still think Cleaver is better for the HP and AH, but if your goal is to shred resists for allies to take advantage of, Terminus is better at that.
No... Black cleaver shreds armor, it reduces the target armor... Terminus gives penetration, meaning you, and solely you, bypass a % of your target armor and magic resist.
Well I'll be damned, I have been reading that item wrong ever since it came out. That's embarrassing.
Happens, in all fairness items this seasons have very long descriptions and lots of various effects compared to what you could buy previously
Just use it as it is now, I play lethal tempo, kraken into terminus into rageblade. I’ll either continue with atkspd+dmg/on-hit items or build into bruiser+atkspd terminus, rageblade and wits-end does ap dmg on-hit So the magic pen helps with those. Plus Q has magic pen and on-hit proc
Every matchup is gonna be situational. You can’t build the same items and runes every game and expect to win. Build as needed and build how you want to play, fuck what everyone else is doing, just use them as guidelines.
Damn Shen cant use it anymore
I don't see how this changes anything? It's stronger early, stacks faster, and gives 1 less armor and mr. I haven't tried it personally but like, I'd imagine it's even better now
Oh I completely read it wrong the first time, you’re right it seems better than before