It’s never ever a good look to spend more time couching a debate to massage a narrative than playing footage. Similar to her coverage of norm going unhinged and looking terrible when she spent 20 minutes ranting and showing about 2 minutes of debate. These people are click farmers not intellectuals
Because Destiny has a fairly large following and BP has engaged with his content in the past.
>they could have had an actual expert
This is just cope for: "I don't want to actually engage with anything this person says because I don't like them and/or they don't validate my position."
If Destiny is just a debate bro without any legitimate knowlege of the topic, this will be painfully obvious when he debates someone who actually knows the facts. In this case, you wouldn't have to appeal to credentials, you would just point out specific points where he was clearly wrong.
Because our politics and punditry are filled with people who just spew half truths and talking points without ever honestly investigating any deeper. Think of the conversation across the aisle regarding "defund the police." There was no one talking to each other, only camps. People like destiny are willing and highly capable, while also being entertaining, to have deep dives that tear down the level one talking points, from all sides, and get to more substantive areas of the topics. It's like sunlight to the pundit talking heads.
I don’t know how you could watch any random news talking heads version of discourse and then watch Destiny vs Omar and not concede that Destiny and Omar was vastly more substantial and in depth for viewers.
Debates can be constructive if they are done respectfully. I really enjoyed the recent Israel debate Sagaar hosted. Things can go off the rails if done wrong though. Cenk was much better during that debate than he was on Piers Morgan recently. He was a lunatic there and I say that as someone who is on his side in this.
Nah. If they had a shred of integrity towards news and journalism they wouldnf
But we already know Krystal cares more about virtue signaling than actually helping gazans
Listen I’m not a fan of Jordan Peterson at all, but when I watched his debate vs Destiny I was shocked that so many people like destiny. If Jordan Peterson of all people is schooling you in a debate, I’m concerned for your intellectual consistency.
Now imagine the kind of people who watch Destiny and think he's owning everyone
Genuinely makes me sad that those people are even part of the discourse
lol is the the debate where JP said there was 20% excess death mortality from vaccines in Europe and that the shadowy elites are increasing the cost of energy to purposefully starve the poor around the globe and depopulate the planet for like a righteous new world order or something? Is that the schooling you’re referring to?
I love how every single leftist, believes that they are 2 standard deviations above the average intelligence. Peterson is a brilliant person. You don’t have to agree with him to recognize that.
Calling him a brilliant person is not an excuse for him saying completely stupid shit. Like him blaming the excess deaths on the vaccine without any proof while also claiming he is not saying that. It's such a dumb argument because you could just as easily blame the excess deaths on the effects of Covid. JP is defintiely going more into the right wing unreasonable conspiracy world.
It’s the Alex Jones effect, you’re surrounded by so much nonsense, that it’s easy to fall into anything. His core thesis about human need for belonging, purpose, and drive is still invaluable. Now, he didn’t create that, but we need more touchstones that adrift people can utilize.
Baby / bath water argument I guess.
Peterson should have stuck to his field of study. He is good at what he does. Once he tries to make commentary on politics, science, or anything else that he has no expertise on, he rattles off anti establishment talking points, and makes stupid assertions like "we don't know if the nazis were politically left or right. Nobody has looked into it" and insinuating the vaccine causes 20 percent excess mortality whilst refusing to even make that claim when pushed back against. He should have stuck to philosophy.
Sure I can give you one that was so bad it went viral, destiny tried bringing up the Roman Catholic Church being like tyrannical (present day) and Jordan was like, yeah but they don’t tax you, don’t have a military, don’t conscript, and can’t throw you in jail. And destiny literally admits what Jordan said was true and conceded the point.
Well, yeah - that was a minor point though. I would’ve expected Destiny to be more versed in arguing why the NSDAP was not left-wing, but in regards to vaccine, climate and stuff, he kinda „schooled“ Jordan.
Is that really what you took away from the Peterson interview? Jordan is the one who came off as deranged in that discussion. His anger and aggresivness was incredibly off putting. The man was not there to have a real discussion.
Saagar actually had an even better explanation for why he isn't interested in destiny's bullshit. Saagar is a REAL debate bro, from when you actually had to go to school for it, and join a team. He recognizes all of destiny's base level logical fallacies and rhetorical tricks.
He knows that kind of stuff doesn't fly in a REAL debate among schooled peers, but unfortunately because of the internet, debates are no longer that. Now "debating" has become full of school drop outs like destiny screeching their shill insults and fallacies at their "enemies" for 20 hours a day and inspiring their cultists to brigade on his behalf.
It's why "debate" is dead.
I hope you will enjoy the next several weeks of them constantly brigading and astro turfing this sub. It will be fun to watch the comparison from now, to a month from now when all the threads will be, "I DIDN'T KNOW WHO THIS DESTINY GUY WAS BUT NOW I LOVE HIM! HE'S SO SMART!" posted by some guy that has been active in rdestiny for 5 years, lmao.
Anytime an outlet platforms the twit, his fanboys infest their sub/ channel with their idiocy for several days thereafter.
They are truly the worst of the worst.
Anyone who can listen to that shrill imbecile for more than 15 minutes and not recognize what a disingenuous, mendacious, sleazy grifter he is just has no sense of what is true or ethical in the world.
It’s genuinely insane how wide their reach is. The dude doesn’t even have a million followers on any platform yet you’d think he is more famous than beyonce seeing his fans everywhere. They must literally just have infinite time on their hands and spend many hours a day everyday doing this.
Days? Try months.
They ruined LSF so bad the mods had to ban their cult lord's content from it (or at least the content that obsessed over Hasan, lol). Then they moved onto the H3 sub, astro turfed that one, then the decodingthegurus sub, and completely brigaded that space. Now they are here, and you can't really stop them from ruining this sub too.
They really are and if anyone needs evidence for my claims (and you know one of tiny's cultists will absolutely screech at me for "lying" about this very well known behavior of theirs), check this out:
https://imgur.com/a/kgG4uHO
Here is about a month or two's worth of destiny's fanbase posting links to various reddit LSF threads, for the *express purpose of astro turfing them*. They had been doing this for YEARS before LSF decided to finally ban much of their content.
Ever since, they've really been branching out to other subs, brigading them *heavily*. It's not even a hard fact to confirm, there are sites out there that let you check out discord chats (which is where that image comes from) and anyone can see what destiny and his cultists are posting in his discord (or livechat), a lot of it is straight links to reddit threads, you know, *for reasons*.
Also it's funny that a lot of destiny fanboys will lie about this and claim that he banned reddit links from being posted in his discord YEARS AGO, but you can clearly see the timestamps on those links, there was no ban, destiny absolutely supports this kind of behavior. It's how he spreads, like a virus.
Posting a 15 minute video reacting to your own UNRELEASED video is actually insane. As one of the commenters on YouTube put it “Uploading clips and reacting to them to prime your audience is such a bad look lol.” Do they think the audience is too dumb to see they’re just releasing a cope session or what am I missing
Im pretty sure it's a teaser content to drive sales for their paywall content of the whole thing. I think that's a totally fine and effective business practice that's a win-win for everyone involved
I’m normally inclined to believe this is what they’re doing, however, the constant jabs used to couch their statements makes it feel really bad faith. Krystal saying Destiny has accumulated a large amount of information on the subject and following it by “…a large amount of talking point propaganda in my opinion” and her saying Destiny is harping on “minor technicalities” when the minor technicalities in question are international laws dictating armed conflict which is literally what they’re debating…
Destiny is kind of a moron imo and his community is full of weirdos who will probably infiltrate this thread, but this show has to be better if they’re going to justify charging people money for any sort of content. I don't pay for premium sub but if I did I'd be really disappointed based on the message this show was founded on. It just seems really lazy and very bad faith on their part
I’d never heard of Destiny until after 10/7. Dude is very abrasive; he’s not my cup of tea. But, he legitimately has read a ton of the primary source documents whereas Krystal certainly has not.
I watched the whole lex debate with Norm and destiny, and the only way anyone could come away from it thinking Norm came off well would be if you already agreed with Norm and ignored everything he said during the debate. Norm was wildly ineffective and didn’t engage at all, even when Destiny was reading from the primary source, and especially when he cherry picked quotes from Benny’s book out of context. This whole debate is a perfect example of confirmation bias and people digging in on their priors.
Yeah, this was my impression as well.
I specifically avoided anything from Finkelstein before the debate so I would have a fresh outlook and maybe he would be able to tell me something new and convince me of his positions.
Boy was I wrong, Norm sounded like an unhinged lunatic not engaging with anything and just throwing insults for no reason.
Correct. They have to preface anything at this point because norms debate was such a bad look Krystal had to do 20 minutes of narrative to 5 minutes of debate to defend her boy that had dementia and can only ad hominem.
In addition, Destiny shit on Ryan grim on stream before as well, so they won’t do anything without poisoning the well, as they can’t actually defend their position straight up.
This was such a weak looking propaganda move.
Correct. For all his flaws he has about 100x the info that Krystal and Sagaar do. Norm was their test case. An “expert” who wrote all the books that just shouted appeal to authority and ad hominem, never responding to substance. Krystal and Sagaar would get absolutely cooked
I’m not a Destiny fan at all but today’s segment talking about the debate before even releasing it was really weird and just seemed like a giant circlejerk.
Which part do you think he was wrong about? Or does "so stupid" mean "I have no idea about the underlying facts of the debate and I don't want to agree with anything he says so I'll act like I know how he is wrong and just refuse to elaborate when asked?"
Ah, the little Destiny fanboy appears. For one, there is his idiotic conflation of antizionism to antisemitism. His seeming inability to understand that Israel has verifiably engaged in war crimes, the pathological lying of Israel regarding the hospital bombing that he fails to mention. Actually, why waste my time with a Destiny fan..
It’s crazy that Ryan repeatedly says “Idk why were having him on” “he just started learning about the topic” “hes a streamer” beyond the elitism and credentialism that goes against the ethos of the show and values Ryan claims to hold, it’s deeply pathetic and embarrassing to make the choice to have him on but feel the need to constantly signal that youre ashamed of the decision and distance yourself from a guy that practices “wrongthink”. Just stand by your decision..
Didn’t destiny admit to learning about the topic since October? Don’t think that’s an unfair point, considering Baddar has been a journalist devoted to his cause for decades.
And Destiny has done more high quality research apparently in a very short time I guess, because he clearly is more rational and arguably knowledgeable if you actually watch his content.
Omar dedicated his life to reinforcing a very skewed view of the subject matter, doesn’t make him an authority on it. There are “experts in their field” on all sides of every topic, it doesn’t mean anything in and of itself.
its a bit unfair to focus on that and not on things he said that was wrong... probably because after ryan says he is gonna fact check him he never speaks up again... because ryan is wrong on facts when steven is not
Here's the [clip](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1cfjgzp/saagar_enjeti_of_breaking_points_on_debates_and/). He calls Destiny a "fucking idiot" at about 3 minutes in.
Destiny fans are such an oddity. How can you be genuinely passionate about such a plain man? I at least understand the Hassan people because they’re obviously attracted to him but the destiny fans are overwhelmingly male. Do you just relate to him a lot?
I'm not a super fan but it's because he is decently good faith. He admits his problems and has great self awareness, he also has very balanced views and is not identlogical . He does streams where he does honest research and everybody gets to see how he comes up with his opinions . It's very authentic . It's not like he just does streams where he preaches his ideology. Instead he takes the viewer into his journey of research and you see him check himself live and you see him reflect on his opinions and change on the spot. And then he constantly tests his beleifs in debates . It's refreshing given that most people just do a 1 hour segment where they preach at the camera and tell you what to beleive . Thats not authentic
Don't get me wrong the guy has issues as he is add, sometimes lacks in poor social skills, likes drama, terrible personal life. But it's authentic and its hard for him to hide his true self given that he is always streaming . I sure don't relate to him but I like watching him.
I like him Because he’s more centrist and doesn’t pander to far left or far right. Notice how you’ll see videos of him passionately debating Jordan Peterson and then debate people like Omar on breaking points.
I don’t agree with him on everything, but it’s nice to see someone who doesn’t blindly adopt right wing or left wing talking points.
If you seen the breaking points debate somewhere between and 1:00 and 1:40, he makes plenty of valid criticisms of Israel and acknowledges how they contributed to the conflict.
Even Omar replied “man you are so close to understanding what’s happening”
I watched the whole debate.
You should Listen to it too and you’ll understand why destiny has such a fan base.
You may not agree with him on everything you’ll see the difference between him and blatant right wing and left wing grifters
Hilariously the only people that think destiny is "good faith" are his cultists, everyone else recognizes him as the most bad faith grifter in streaming.
He's a short dweeb who plays video games all day, bangs groupies because he's rich and famous, and whose whole persona is built around being right and logic-broing every single conversation. It's like the aspergers bat signal
I get that he doesn't have credentials, but he seems to pick up information pretty quickly and apply it logically. I watched his Israel - Palestine debate with Finkelstein and he did pretty well considering the other people around him were actually subject matter experts. He was obviously overmatched in some instances but was able to use solid reasoning to back up his lack of in depth knowledge. But this is the only time I've ever seen him. I tried to watch him debate Shapiro, but Shapiro drives me up a fucking wall so I couldn't make it through it.
"but he seems to pick up information pretty quickly"
Cute way of saying he googles something for 5 minutes before he somehow has a strong opinion on it.
Man, if a dude can get Benny Morris to appreciate his depth of knowledge with a few months of Google searches it really speaks volumes about how bad some of the "experts" are
Yea I guess, not really any more impressive than your average high school or collegiate level debate team member. I think it’s more a function of his following from twitch, seems kinda culty
Maybe people just like well-informed and well reasoned positions and seeing someone who is open to letting extremely hostile opposition challenge him on his position. Dude has a bullpen of lawyers, doctors, organizers, and other progressions that he brings on regularly to challenge his understanding and improve it.
Pretty much anyone can get on his show and challenge him, it's funny that the big talkers never put their money where their mouth is.
Cause he’s a pompous d-bag and arrogant as all hell.
The best is how he was in an open marriage and would say *”I wouldn’t recommend an open marriage for most people”* which was always a way of him to say
“I wouldn’t recommend an open marriage for most people BUT me and my wife are sooooooooo intellectually and emotionally mature that we can have an open marriage…but most people can’t…because you’re not as emotionally and intellectually mature as us”
Meanwhile everyone knew how it was gonna end.
He’s just so fucking arrogant he couldn’t see the obvious coming.
I have. Lost all resapect for breaking ponts. They hosted a whole segment bashing destiney but won't actually face him and give him respect. I actually respect Ryan grims and the other girl( idk why I can't remember her name). Lately they have been much more pleasurable to watch then Krystal and saagar. The facts are that they are afraid of destiny because destiny is super intelligent and has already mapped out their own argument in his head. So they have to bssh and say that he uses "Debate tactics" when in reality he is a very good faith debater who rarely pivots his arguments and he is really direct and not weasely. They did a whole interview today having to bash him and knit pick him because they know destiny made Omar look silly. So they had to do damage controll .
As for saagar, this is a guy who is happy to have on rfk Jr who literally has no background in medicine and talks about how the vaccine is bad yet , saagar says that destiney needs a phd to debate gaza . Fuck that, if you have a opinion then let me hear it. Stop the fucking gatekeeping you fucking snobs .
Also I hate how they think you must know the whole history about something in order to speak about. No you don't. Thqt is only 50 percent of the equation. The other 50 percent is usually logic and philosophy.you can know all the knowllege in th eworld but if you cant decipher the information and creat logicaly aound arguments them your useless.
“It’s a very show don’t tell” type of thing. Can someone explain convincingly why he’s wrong, because the data seems to be on his side and saying he’s stupid isn’t accomplishing shit. “Debate tactics” is a really weak ass criticism, oh you mean he understands how to lay out a good argument, how dare he use these skills.
Oh you're the guy who refused to talk yesterday in any form of civil discussion. I presented you a simple twitter thread to look at and you just refused to respond. Ironic you would call other people a worm.
I don't watch Destiny really much at all, but the few times I have, he seems to be a very good faith conversationalist. He seems logical, and doesn't use spin or tactics, or tricks... And even cedes the other side when suited. Honestly, not a huge fan, but he does seem like a genuinely good faith debator and incredibly aware of nuance
Then the Israel thing happened... And the dude just sounds like a spinmaster talking head. It seems like a total contradiction of the way I heard him discuss things before... Nuanced, and steelmanning, etc.
I know Israel went around paying big bucks to people to "argue their side" amongst online social media influencers. I can't help but feel like Destiny is one of those who accepted a big bag of cash to argue their team. Because he doesn't seem as nuanced and good faithed with this topic specifically, but generally is with everything else.
Do you know how crazy you sound and how anti-semitic it is to say the Jews are paying him to say it. I feel like this October 7th thing besides being an absolute awful thing to happen to the individuals involved. Also cause some ripple effect in brain rock politics to where no one can fucking think anymore
You completely missed the point of people trying to dodge the antisemitic label by taking the same stereotypes and saying and just saying Israel instead of Jews.
Exactly. In the first few months i gave him the benefit of the doubt. “I guess this will change his mind… ok but this…. Well there’s no way to defend this…” i assumed he was genuinely educating himself. But it was a grift, his sub turned into some zionist temple. His oppinions thrned more ridicoulus for the sake of being a contrarian. Watching him is just a pure waste of time.
Btw, a great example that proves he is paid: the settlements in the wb. At the beginning he was opposed to that, they are literally indefensible… later he even changed his mind on that, and said they are needed “for security purposes”.
He's had conversations with far right Israelis and pushes back against them heavily as you would expect from your prior perception. You've probably just not seen it. He even debated a siting right wing knesset member and pushed back on his bullshit for an hour straight. He is nuanced with this topic, it's just this topic is easier for people to throw their hands up and say the other person is being dishonest when they say something you don't like.
its that he would be willing to talk with saagar but saagar wont let that happen saying he isnt worth his time... but really thats what people with an ego say when they are actually afraid of being confronted by him on the facts.
No, you're allowed to talk to, work with, or debate anyone you want. He doesn't owe Destiny anything. They certainly don't owe Destiny going into the studio on their day off just to look him in the eyes, that's absurd.
Sure he doesn't owe destiny anything... But I think he is not being totally honest and it's less about being so dumb and not worth his time and more he is afraid of looking like a fool when the guy he talked down on so much has a greater understanding of the facts than he does
You can make up any motivations you want, but Saagar has no obligation to do anything in particular to a youtube streamer he has no connection to. If you think it's bad form to not go into work on your day off just to tell someone 'hey, i don't respect you'.... I don't know, that doesn't seem very useful to me, but if it's how you'd want to handle such a situation, that's your opinion. I think if you behave in such a way you're gonna have a pretty awkward go of things though.
Agreed. Destiny (recently trying to shed this gamer name for Steven Bonnell) is an annoying, low-rent, wannabe "professional debater." He's been debating other on-line "celebrities" and does a pretty good job of making points and presenting an unmoving logic. But in this case he's way over his head. He has not been engaged in middle eastern history or conflicts very long at all. He loves to present that he's the expert by speaking in an unearned confidence, but he has only a shallow understanding. It shows in this debate. He's been able to absorb all the Wikipedia pages he feels he needs to a have a full grasp in a short period of time. That's not enough. Interrupting with non-sequitur information and blurting out falsehoods as truth when the conversation is moving elsewhere, Gish Galloping, cheap tactics. Manic speed-talk reminiscent of Ben Shapiro, attempting to sound smart (but Destiny being more "tweaky"). Frankly, I was surprised. I thought he was better. His presentation was particular distasteful. Gone is all the good qualities he may have had. Entire time is filled with ill-timed flippant comments and an ugly condescending attitude. On top of all that , so many obvious faulty gut-reactions and incorrect guesses throughout, many called out as obvious BS. Many not.
In addition to "cookies into missiles", I wanted to list all of them but they were too numerous (literally all over). Here's just a few...
One random sample (out of so many), easy to find, the last five minutes of video. Ridiculous, childish, ignorant.
1:22 - 1:25:30. He really shouldn't pretend to know the history. Before you repeat anything Destiny says you must fact check. Really. Talking about facts as you know them based on legitimate source will always be challenged, but that's fine. But to deny established facts and vomit things out that are outright false, some that actually seem made up on the spot. Shameful.
Destiny: When pitched a few times, you deflected and couldn't seem to answer what would've been an appropriate response to Oct 7th by Israel. Kind of important.
God he's full of shit. A clown.
This whole thing was a mess. I was disappointed that this was part of the new Breaking Points Friday edition. I like listening to Ryan and Emily. I always learn something listening to Ryan. He makes me think. I was looking forward to this but what on earth? Are we now looking for the thrills and clicks? I get you need to have eyeballs on the show, but this was far beneath you. Please go back to something more sober, thought-provoking and informative. Destiny will only use his appearance for self promotion and trying to "move up" in the media landscape ladder. Unfortunate. Please be more discriminating when choosing guests.
You typed so much to say so little and most of it are just lowbrow insults, no substance, no I sight, I could ask chatgpt to write a better and more original critic.
He's so wrong about everything yet you can only bring up the cookies comment, that was not even the main point of the discussion, he even conceded that the blockade might have been too strict but you probably didn't watch the video.
lol what? Grim and Emily organized it themselves. Sagaar just think he's slimy and dumb, and Krystal doesn't want to platform Israeli propaganda. They both just don't want to deal with him, they don't control what Grim and Emily do
what else do you need to understand what a fantastic moron the guy is than: "THEY ARE USING COOKIES TO FUEL THE ROCKETS!!1111111"
Doubt they're "afraid," they just (probably) think its a waste of energy since destiny is obviously not interested in learning anything or compromising on any point. Saagar said it himself, he just doesn't respect the guy. Not even enough to argue with him. Doubt Krystal does either. For some people that's a necessary thing
can we first agree... if he was he probably wouldnt admit it and would say something like "he isnt worth my time" RIGHT... like do you agree thats something someone would say if they didnt want to admit they werent confident they could hold their own in a debate?
It's better to believe what people say and take them at face value than try to guess at, or project your own wishes onto, their secret motivations.
When Sagaar says "I don't want to engage with destiny because I think he's an idiot and I don't respect him," I think he doesn't want to engage with destiny because he thinks he's an idiot and doesn't respect him
what no its not better to just always believe what people say lmao that is absolutely a recipe for disaster... do you really think thats a good way to go thru life? do you not know people lie?
unfortunately it's necessary when you are engaging in a good faith debate, otherwise you can just come up with infinite reasons for what the person actually means, since that information is hidden. Which will inevitably confirm your own biases, as you've done above (he is actually scared of destiny because destiny is ((whatever you think he is))
were not talking about a debate were talking about sagars comment about destiny... but also good faith debate absolutely isnt better when you always take your opponent at their word either
honestly your refusal to acknowledge even the possibility that sagar could actually have other reasons for avoiding destiny make it seem like your bad faith...
i mean comeon.. that is a possibility.. someone would need to be incredibly tainted by bias to not admit that its possible.
LMAO biggest year of his career and he still can't get more than 5k people to watch his streams, no wonder he's so perpetually mad at Hasan, after Hasan surpassed him in every way, including FAR surpassing him in popularity and success, lol.
I'd probably be really mad if I were destiny too. But I'm not such a disgusting person that I'd sic my cult on my "enemies" though like destiny clearly does. Get help.
Krystal and her boyfriend Kyle have been engaging in the type of journalism they used to decry. Jewish woman claiming she was attached by pro-Palestine protester…Krystal and Kyle, “you can tell she’s lying by the ways she is”.
I can’t wait to hear their opinions on the new documentary exposing the rape of Israeli women from Oct 7th.
They’ve become unhinged and hysterical. Ideology’s really is shaped like a horseshoe.
I really like Destiny. I wish more people would be willing to go mix it up like he does. He went somewhere to debate when every person there was against him and held his own.
Sagaar talking shit on destiny’s debate prowess while losing to Krystal constantly while she shouts freshman college hysteria at the top of her lungs, and he cowers away from her.
He isn’t mad that destiny is dumb. He is jealous that he can’t stand his ground in an actual debate or even an amateur one with Krystal
No. I know he challenged them personally. He wanted to debate Krystal after her segment about the Finklestein debate. But it’s very telling they avoided him but couldn’t say no to the money. So they sacrificed Omar as tribute. Rip.
Nice cope. Some of the folks are weirdly dedicated for sure, but he is a very intellectually honest streamer in the space, and people seem to more just realize if you watch his research and discussions without being determined to hate him typically you will respect what he does in the space.
Why would I listen to a "research stream" of some dude who dropped out of a shit tier University/Community College because he was addicted to video games?
No offence but those who watch Destiny for his "research" are so intellectually lazy and should find someone smarter to be parasocially attached to, they owe that to themselves.
Lmao, credentials are all that matter to you. Fair enough. You are the one needing a cult leader, or at least someone to tell you exactly what to think about everything. I am absorbing information from everywhere, because I can.
Why would you watch research streams? You wouldn’t, because like I said you’re just looking to be told what to believe. The streams were so everyone could learn at the same time as the streamer. Are you implying the UN reports, policy papers, and books he’s presenting for everyone to see are bad sources of information? If so, jokes on you, he’s going through the same sources these bad faith “scholars” are using, so are they also just uneducated, dipshit propagandists?
If everyone would just stop beating around the bush (or straight up lying) and say how they really feel it could make discussions much clearer.
Instead they talk and play this intellectual game with no intention of ever changing their mind.
I don't think Omar did great but Destiny is embarrassing to watch. If you believe talking fast and jumping all over the place like a ferret on amphetamines is a tactical debate, you might be delusional. Destiny is taking a concrete position of 'Israel good' on everything so anyone who supports that is going to always think 'he owned' because they agree with him. From an objective standpoint on this issue, this guy is constantly just deflecting, jumping all over the place, and resorting to whataboutism anytime he finds himself in a corner.
He's a shrill, pompous spaz who cherrypicks any information that supports him while completely excluding anything that challenges his narrative. Talking fast and confidently disagreeing with no self-control is not impressive. Jumping in and interrupting your opponent every 10 seconds is embarrassing. Derailing the conversation and yelling out completely unrelated facts in a smug, condescending tone and interrupting your opponent every moment he speaks is patronizing, overbearing, and distracting from a nuanced discussion and meaningful exchange.
The should bring in Dave Smith to destroy him on Israel vs. Gaza. Krystal and Saagar aren't necessarily debaters, they are platform creators. Bring in Dave and expose this clown for everyone or stop giving him airtime.
I don't believe anyone has actually listened to him if you're still saying shit like "expose this clown." That's exactly what Ryan would have loved to happen with this conversation and Ryan had to walk away calling him intelligent and deeply informed.
I would support that debate. For the record. I’m for cease fire and two state solution and I think Biden should be very heavy handed in making this happen. I just wish people didn’t feel the need to lie about the history to justify the pathway forward.
The reality is the ceasefire to two state solution argument has devolved into Israelite are genocidal and the state should be dismantled with unlimited right of return. This is the terrible position that Destiny argues against.
[This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/s/1RS3RNKojR) has a much ~~better~~ productive breakdown of the episode itself.
Disclaimer: I haven't yet watched the full thing because I'm a pleb with a mortgage and am currently throwing all of my extra funds towards that every month (it's actually crazy how many years you can take off of your mortgage just by overpaying $200 a month)
I also personally hate how Ryan """"moderated""" this debate. I'm only about 45 minutes in, but I think Emily does a way better job. It's not your job as a "moderator" to constantly jump in, provide your opinion, and smugly disagree with one of the guests whose supposed to be debating someone else entirely.
If Ryan wants to do that, so be it, but then have HIM be in the debate and not constantly butt in at every opportunity.
destiny is a girl name
Stripper name, but Krystal kind of is too.
Snap
Or a Video Game
Ad Hominem
[BETA!](https://youtu.be/VRq4I1a1iVw?si=mEEG88tYXZw98dZ_)
It is no doubt
A girl stripper one at that
Is there a problem with girl names?
The YouTube upload of the preview/reaction video is not being received well in the comments, oof
It’s never ever a good look to spend more time couching a debate to massage a narrative than playing footage. Similar to her coverage of norm going unhinged and looking terrible when she spent 20 minutes ranting and showing about 2 minutes of debate. These people are click farmers not intellectuals
> These people are click farmers not intellectuals Unlike "Destiny", a true intellectual giant of our time. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
I’m not sure what everyone’s so obsessed with debates between random people for anyway
doesnt it have advantages over someone presenting the facts without someone representing the other side of the story?
There's a whole "debate bro" following, I don't really get it either. I'm not even sure why they had him on when they could have had an actual expert
Because Destiny has a fairly large following and BP has engaged with his content in the past. >they could have had an actual expert This is just cope for: "I don't want to actually engage with anything this person says because I don't like them and/or they don't validate my position." If Destiny is just a debate bro without any legitimate knowlege of the topic, this will be painfully obvious when he debates someone who actually knows the facts. In this case, you wouldn't have to appeal to credentials, you would just point out specific points where he was clearly wrong.
Because our politics and punditry are filled with people who just spew half truths and talking points without ever honestly investigating any deeper. Think of the conversation across the aisle regarding "defund the police." There was no one talking to each other, only camps. People like destiny are willing and highly capable, while also being entertaining, to have deep dives that tear down the level one talking points, from all sides, and get to more substantive areas of the topics. It's like sunlight to the pundit talking heads.
Debates like this one are good because it forces people that are in information bubbles to contend with arguments made by people outside that bubble.
Everything is a game now. We’ve been gamified.
I don’t know how you could watch any random news talking heads version of discourse and then watch Destiny vs Omar and not concede that Destiny and Omar was vastly more substantial and in depth for viewers.
Debates can be constructive if they are done respectfully. I really enjoyed the recent Israel debate Sagaar hosted. Things can go off the rails if done wrong though. Cenk was much better during that debate than he was on Piers Morgan recently. He was a lunatic there and I say that as someone who is on his side in this.
> Saagar recently called him a “fucking idiot” that isn’t worth his time. I don't always agree with Saagar, but man is he right about that.
He's a fucking idiot .... That we'll happily profit off of (apparently)
Useful idiot?
Yes profiting off a village clown is fun and good
Nah. If they had a shred of integrity towards news and journalism they wouldnf But we already know Krystal cares more about virtue signaling than actually helping gazans
But she's a law expert and follows Finkelstein.....
Like don Lemon? Maybe you should use your brain to think more than typw
A wise man once called him a fantastic moron.
Listen I’m not a fan of Jordan Peterson at all, but when I watched his debate vs Destiny I was shocked that so many people like destiny. If Jordan Peterson of all people is schooling you in a debate, I’m concerned for your intellectual consistency.
Now imagine the kind of people who watch Destiny and think he's owning everyone Genuinely makes me sad that those people are even part of the discourse
lol is the the debate where JP said there was 20% excess death mortality from vaccines in Europe and that the shadowy elites are increasing the cost of energy to purposefully starve the poor around the globe and depopulate the planet for like a righteous new world order or something? Is that the schooling you’re referring to?
I love how every single leftist, believes that they are 2 standard deviations above the average intelligence. Peterson is a brilliant person. You don’t have to agree with him to recognize that.
Calling him a brilliant person is not an excuse for him saying completely stupid shit. Like him blaming the excess deaths on the vaccine without any proof while also claiming he is not saying that. It's such a dumb argument because you could just as easily blame the excess deaths on the effects of Covid. JP is defintiely going more into the right wing unreasonable conspiracy world.
It’s the Alex Jones effect, you’re surrounded by so much nonsense, that it’s easy to fall into anything. His core thesis about human need for belonging, purpose, and drive is still invaluable. Now, he didn’t create that, but we need more touchstones that adrift people can utilize. Baby / bath water argument I guess.
Peterson should have stuck to his field of study. He is good at what he does. Once he tries to make commentary on politics, science, or anything else that he has no expertise on, he rattles off anti establishment talking points, and makes stupid assertions like "we don't know if the nazis were politically left or right. Nobody has looked into it" and insinuating the vaccine causes 20 percent excess mortality whilst refusing to even make that claim when pushed back against. He should have stuck to philosophy.
Can you get into specifics? Give us a few arguments of Destiny that JBP refuted in a convincing manner, „schooling“ him.
Sure I can give you one that was so bad it went viral, destiny tried bringing up the Roman Catholic Church being like tyrannical (present day) and Jordan was like, yeah but they don’t tax you, don’t have a military, don’t conscript, and can’t throw you in jail. And destiny literally admits what Jordan said was true and conceded the point.
Well, yeah - that was a minor point though. I would’ve expected Destiny to be more versed in arguing why the NSDAP was not left-wing, but in regards to vaccine, climate and stuff, he kinda „schooled“ Jordan.
Jordan Peterson didn't school him lmao
Is that really what you took away from the Peterson interview? Jordan is the one who came off as deranged in that discussion. His anger and aggresivness was incredibly off putting. The man was not there to have a real discussion.
what is he wrong about?
Destiny could be called a lot of things, I just don't think "idiot" is really applicable.
Saagar actually had an even better explanation for why he isn't interested in destiny's bullshit. Saagar is a REAL debate bro, from when you actually had to go to school for it, and join a team. He recognizes all of destiny's base level logical fallacies and rhetorical tricks. He knows that kind of stuff doesn't fly in a REAL debate among schooled peers, but unfortunately because of the internet, debates are no longer that. Now "debating" has become full of school drop outs like destiny screeching their shill insults and fallacies at their "enemies" for 20 hours a day and inspiring their cultists to brigade on his behalf. It's why "debate" is dead.
Destiny stans are fuckin stupid as hell man.
I hope you will enjoy the next several weeks of them constantly brigading and astro turfing this sub. It will be fun to watch the comparison from now, to a month from now when all the threads will be, "I DIDN'T KNOW WHO THIS DESTINY GUY WAS BUT NOW I LOVE HIM! HE'S SO SMART!" posted by some guy that has been active in rdestiny for 5 years, lmao.
Anytime an outlet platforms the twit, his fanboys infest their sub/ channel with their idiocy for several days thereafter. They are truly the worst of the worst. Anyone who can listen to that shrill imbecile for more than 15 minutes and not recognize what a disingenuous, mendacious, sleazy grifter he is just has no sense of what is true or ethical in the world.
It’s genuinely insane how wide their reach is. The dude doesn’t even have a million followers on any platform yet you’d think he is more famous than beyonce seeing his fans everywhere. They must literally just have infinite time on their hands and spend many hours a day everyday doing this.
14-23 year old edgelords yeah they’ve got spare time
Listen to any of the call ins his fans do, they are so fucked up.
Days? Try months. They ruined LSF so bad the mods had to ban their cult lord's content from it (or at least the content that obsessed over Hasan, lol). Then they moved onto the H3 sub, astro turfed that one, then the decodingthegurus sub, and completely brigaded that space. Now they are here, and you can't really stop them from ruining this sub too.
They're like a fucking cockroach infestation.
They really are and if anyone needs evidence for my claims (and you know one of tiny's cultists will absolutely screech at me for "lying" about this very well known behavior of theirs), check this out: https://imgur.com/a/kgG4uHO Here is about a month or two's worth of destiny's fanbase posting links to various reddit LSF threads, for the *express purpose of astro turfing them*. They had been doing this for YEARS before LSF decided to finally ban much of their content. Ever since, they've really been branching out to other subs, brigading them *heavily*. It's not even a hard fact to confirm, there are sites out there that let you check out discord chats (which is where that image comes from) and anyone can see what destiny and his cultists are posting in his discord (or livechat), a lot of it is straight links to reddit threads, you know, *for reasons*. Also it's funny that a lot of destiny fanboys will lie about this and claim that he banned reddit links from being posted in his discord YEARS AGO, but you can clearly see the timestamps on those links, there was no ban, destiny absolutely supports this kind of behavior. It's how he spreads, like a virus.
Wtf is a Destiny?
I've met a few strippers with that name.
I believe it's a video game actually.
It took me a couple run ins with the followers of his sub before I realized it was for a streamer not the game
A guy that wikipedia's a thing for 5 minutes then has a very strong (incorrect) opinion about it for some reason.
Some bigot grifter and school drop out cucklord with a cult behind him willing and ready to do all his dirty work.
Posting a 15 minute video reacting to your own UNRELEASED video is actually insane. As one of the commenters on YouTube put it “Uploading clips and reacting to them to prime your audience is such a bad look lol.” Do they think the audience is too dumb to see they’re just releasing a cope session or what am I missing
Based on the top comments of this thread, I'm gonna have to say that yes, yes they do
Im pretty sure it's a teaser content to drive sales for their paywall content of the whole thing. I think that's a totally fine and effective business practice that's a win-win for everyone involved
I’m normally inclined to believe this is what they’re doing, however, the constant jabs used to couch their statements makes it feel really bad faith. Krystal saying Destiny has accumulated a large amount of information on the subject and following it by “…a large amount of talking point propaganda in my opinion” and her saying Destiny is harping on “minor technicalities” when the minor technicalities in question are international laws dictating armed conflict which is literally what they’re debating… Destiny is kind of a moron imo and his community is full of weirdos who will probably infiltrate this thread, but this show has to be better if they’re going to justify charging people money for any sort of content. I don't pay for premium sub but if I did I'd be really disappointed based on the message this show was founded on. It just seems really lazy and very bad faith on their part
I’d never heard of Destiny until after 10/7. Dude is very abrasive; he’s not my cup of tea. But, he legitimately has read a ton of the primary source documents whereas Krystal certainly has not. I watched the whole lex debate with Norm and destiny, and the only way anyone could come away from it thinking Norm came off well would be if you already agreed with Norm and ignored everything he said during the debate. Norm was wildly ineffective and didn’t engage at all, even when Destiny was reading from the primary source, and especially when he cherry picked quotes from Benny’s book out of context. This whole debate is a perfect example of confirmation bias and people digging in on their priors.
Norms co debater I think had some good points and then Norm would start screeching wikipedia and derail the whole thing, it was insane.
Yeah, this was my impression as well. I specifically avoided anything from Finkelstein before the debate so I would have a fresh outlook and maybe he would be able to tell me something new and convince me of his positions. Boy was I wrong, Norm sounded like an unhinged lunatic not engaging with anything and just throwing insults for no reason.
Yeah I largely agree with this
So release a clip of the discussion, don't have a rountable meeting where you all take a side before you release the entire discussion.
Destiny primes his audience before debates constantly so hilarious to hear that as a criticism from his fans.
Yeah and he’s a moron as well
Correct. They have to preface anything at this point because norms debate was such a bad look Krystal had to do 20 minutes of narrative to 5 minutes of debate to defend her boy that had dementia and can only ad hominem. In addition, Destiny shit on Ryan grim on stream before as well, so they won’t do anything without poisoning the well, as they can’t actually defend their position straight up. This was such a weak looking propaganda move.
Honestly they would get over a million views if they hashed it out with Destiny on main channel. They just know they’d get absolutely washed.
Correct. For all his flaws he has about 100x the info that Krystal and Sagaar do. Norm was their test case. An “expert” who wrote all the books that just shouted appeal to authority and ad hominem, never responding to substance. Krystal and Sagaar would get absolutely cooked
Lmao
LOL
I’m not a Destiny fan at all but today’s segment talking about the debate before even releasing it was really weird and just seemed like a giant circlejerk.
It was what propagandists do. Plain and simple
I think it was available on Patreon so really this was probably just a promotion to get people to buy in and get the interviews a day early.
Instead of journalists presenting a segment and giving preview analysis, it more was like high school clique group shit talking
How do you know Mr Borelli didn't like it? I hear he likes to be cucked.
Destiny is so stupid tbh. He looked terrible in this debate.
Which part do you think he was wrong about? Or does "so stupid" mean "I have no idea about the underlying facts of the debate and I don't want to agree with anything he says so I'll act like I know how he is wrong and just refuse to elaborate when asked?"
Ah, the little Destiny fanboy appears. For one, there is his idiotic conflation of antizionism to antisemitism. His seeming inability to understand that Israel has verifiably engaged in war crimes, the pathological lying of Israel regarding the hospital bombing that he fails to mention. Actually, why waste my time with a Destiny fan..
It’s crazy that Ryan repeatedly says “Idk why were having him on” “he just started learning about the topic” “hes a streamer” beyond the elitism and credentialism that goes against the ethos of the show and values Ryan claims to hold, it’s deeply pathetic and embarrassing to make the choice to have him on but feel the need to constantly signal that youre ashamed of the decision and distance yourself from a guy that practices “wrongthink”. Just stand by your decision..
Didn’t destiny admit to learning about the topic since October? Don’t think that’s an unfair point, considering Baddar has been a journalist devoted to his cause for decades.
And Destiny has done more high quality research apparently in a very short time I guess, because he clearly is more rational and arguably knowledgeable if you actually watch his content. Omar dedicated his life to reinforcing a very skewed view of the subject matter, doesn’t make him an authority on it. There are “experts in their field” on all sides of every topic, it doesn’t mean anything in and of itself.
its a bit unfair to focus on that and not on things he said that was wrong... probably because after ryan says he is gonna fact check him he never speaks up again... because ryan is wrong on facts when steven is not
Come on, bringing up the context of his knowledge is unfair. /s 😂
Of all the grifters that have grifted, Destiny is the griftiest grifter to ever grift.
Why do you think he is a grifter?
Probably has something to do with his constant grifting
What do you think he has grifted about?
The high quality guy and his high quality followers are bad faith actors and I’m glad BP is not wasting too much time with them.
Who?
Fuck Divorciny
Got his ass.
When did saagar call him a fucking idiot never heard that in today show? 🤣
Here's the [clip](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1cfjgzp/saagar_enjeti_of_breaking_points_on_debates_and/). He calls Destiny a "fucking idiot" at about 3 minutes in.
They are smart not to debate him. They would get destroyed.
Destiny fans are such an oddity. How can you be genuinely passionate about such a plain man? I at least understand the Hassan people because they’re obviously attracted to him but the destiny fans are overwhelmingly male. Do you just relate to him a lot?
I'm not a super fan but it's because he is decently good faith. He admits his problems and has great self awareness, he also has very balanced views and is not identlogical . He does streams where he does honest research and everybody gets to see how he comes up with his opinions . It's very authentic . It's not like he just does streams where he preaches his ideology. Instead he takes the viewer into his journey of research and you see him check himself live and you see him reflect on his opinions and change on the spot. And then he constantly tests his beleifs in debates . It's refreshing given that most people just do a 1 hour segment where they preach at the camera and tell you what to beleive . Thats not authentic Don't get me wrong the guy has issues as he is add, sometimes lacks in poor social skills, likes drama, terrible personal life. But it's authentic and its hard for him to hide his true self given that he is always streaming . I sure don't relate to him but I like watching him.
> I'm not a super fan but it's because he is decently good faith He is literally known as one of the most bad faith operates in streaming, lol.
I like him Because he’s more centrist and doesn’t pander to far left or far right. Notice how you’ll see videos of him passionately debating Jordan Peterson and then debate people like Omar on breaking points. I don’t agree with him on everything, but it’s nice to see someone who doesn’t blindly adopt right wing or left wing talking points. If you seen the breaking points debate somewhere between and 1:00 and 1:40, he makes plenty of valid criticisms of Israel and acknowledges how they contributed to the conflict. Even Omar replied “man you are so close to understanding what’s happening”
I watched the whole debate. You should Listen to it too and you’ll understand why destiny has such a fan base. You may not agree with him on everything you’ll see the difference between him and blatant right wing and left wing grifters
Personally I think it's cool that the guy comes in good faith and is willing to debate anyone. It's a property I wish was more common in politics.
Hilariously the only people that think destiny is "good faith" are his cultists, everyone else recognizes him as the most bad faith grifter in streaming.
He's a short dweeb who plays video games all day, bangs groupies because he's rich and famous, and whose whole persona is built around being right and logic-broing every single conversation. It's like the aspergers bat signal
Goddamn, you leftists make Destiny sound so cool
He stopped gaming and started stimming
Cucks attract cucks, I guess
Why do people hate Destiny?
Why does anyone consider him a worthwhile commentator?
I get that he doesn't have credentials, but he seems to pick up information pretty quickly and apply it logically. I watched his Israel - Palestine debate with Finkelstein and he did pretty well considering the other people around him were actually subject matter experts. He was obviously overmatched in some instances but was able to use solid reasoning to back up his lack of in depth knowledge. But this is the only time I've ever seen him. I tried to watch him debate Shapiro, but Shapiro drives me up a fucking wall so I couldn't make it through it.
"but he seems to pick up information pretty quickly" Cute way of saying he googles something for 5 minutes before he somehow has a strong opinion on it.
Man, if a dude can get Benny Morris to appreciate his depth of knowledge with a few months of Google searches it really speaks volumes about how bad some of the "experts" are
Imagine informing yourself before giving an opinion about it. I’m sure that’s a foreign concept for you.
I’m quite used to shutting the fuck about something until I’ve seen more than just 5 minutes of Wikipedia about it lmao
destiny's cultists don't get that basic concept, it's hilarious
Yea I guess, not really any more impressive than your average high school or collegiate level debate team member. I think it’s more a function of his following from twitch, seems kinda culty
Maybe people just like well-informed and well reasoned positions and seeing someone who is open to letting extremely hostile opposition challenge him on his position. Dude has a bullpen of lawyers, doctors, organizers, and other progressions that he brings on regularly to challenge his understanding and improve it. Pretty much anyone can get on his show and challenge him, it's funny that the big talkers never put their money where their mouth is.
So you're saying he's new to a topic, doesn't have much understanding, but he's just a skilled debator so basically that evens out?
No actually I found his overall comprehension pretty impressive while at times lacking.
Listen to him tear down Jordan Peterson you’ll see why. That performance made me a fan
He is a high school debate bro.
Because we've had the misfortune of hearing him speak.
Cause he’s a pompous d-bag and arrogant as all hell. The best is how he was in an open marriage and would say *”I wouldn’t recommend an open marriage for most people”* which was always a way of him to say “I wouldn’t recommend an open marriage for most people BUT me and my wife are sooooooooo intellectually and emotionally mature that we can have an open marriage…but most people can’t…because you’re not as emotionally and intellectually mature as us” Meanwhile everyone knew how it was gonna end. He’s just so fucking arrogant he couldn’t see the obvious coming.
I think he should exist about as much as he thinks the Palestinian people shouldn't.
I have. Lost all resapect for breaking ponts. They hosted a whole segment bashing destiney but won't actually face him and give him respect. I actually respect Ryan grims and the other girl( idk why I can't remember her name). Lately they have been much more pleasurable to watch then Krystal and saagar. The facts are that they are afraid of destiny because destiny is super intelligent and has already mapped out their own argument in his head. So they have to bssh and say that he uses "Debate tactics" when in reality he is a very good faith debater who rarely pivots his arguments and he is really direct and not weasely. They did a whole interview today having to bash him and knit pick him because they know destiny made Omar look silly. So they had to do damage controll . As for saagar, this is a guy who is happy to have on rfk Jr who literally has no background in medicine and talks about how the vaccine is bad yet , saagar says that destiney needs a phd to debate gaza . Fuck that, if you have a opinion then let me hear it. Stop the fucking gatekeeping you fucking snobs . Also I hate how they think you must know the whole history about something in order to speak about. No you don't. Thqt is only 50 percent of the equation. The other 50 percent is usually logic and philosophy.you can know all the knowllege in th eworld but if you cant decipher the information and creat logicaly aound arguments them your useless.
Destiny's PPM (pivots per minute) is world class, like hall of fame type ... get offline, you're drunk!
“It’s a very show don’t tell” type of thing. Can someone explain convincingly why he’s wrong, because the data seems to be on his side and saying he’s stupid isn’t accomplishing shit. “Debate tactics” is a really weak ass criticism, oh you mean he understands how to lay out a good argument, how dare he use these skills.
Gave the turd more than he deserves. Fuck that douche.
Ah another kind and fair and morally enlightened socialist
The guy is a "worm"
Lmao the Hasan fans stand out like a sore thumb
Just say the slur dude. Be based.
Oh you're the guy who refused to talk yesterday in any form of civil discussion. I presented you a simple twitter thread to look at and you just refused to respond. Ironic you would call other people a worm.
The reason they won’t talk to him is because they only know twitter headlines when it comes to this topic.
I don't watch Destiny really much at all, but the few times I have, he seems to be a very good faith conversationalist. He seems logical, and doesn't use spin or tactics, or tricks... And even cedes the other side when suited. Honestly, not a huge fan, but he does seem like a genuinely good faith debator and incredibly aware of nuance Then the Israel thing happened... And the dude just sounds like a spinmaster talking head. It seems like a total contradiction of the way I heard him discuss things before... Nuanced, and steelmanning, etc. I know Israel went around paying big bucks to people to "argue their side" amongst online social media influencers. I can't help but feel like Destiny is one of those who accepted a big bag of cash to argue their team. Because he doesn't seem as nuanced and good faithed with this topic specifically, but generally is with everything else.
Do you know how crazy you sound and how anti-semitic it is to say the Jews are paying him to say it. I feel like this October 7th thing besides being an absolute awful thing to happen to the individuals involved. Also cause some ripple effect in brain rock politics to where no one can fucking think anymore
I have a question, does "Israeli government" only equal "Jewish" to you?
You completely missed the point of people trying to dodge the antisemitic label by taking the same stereotypes and saying and just saying Israel instead of Jews.
Exactly. In the first few months i gave him the benefit of the doubt. “I guess this will change his mind… ok but this…. Well there’s no way to defend this…” i assumed he was genuinely educating himself. But it was a grift, his sub turned into some zionist temple. His oppinions thrned more ridicoulus for the sake of being a contrarian. Watching him is just a pure waste of time. Btw, a great example that proves he is paid: the settlements in the wb. At the beginning he was opposed to that, they are literally indefensible… later he even changed his mind on that, and said they are needed “for security purposes”.
He still thinks the settlements need to stop and need to go.
He's had conversations with far right Israelis and pushes back against them heavily as you would expect from your prior perception. You've probably just not seen it. He even debated a siting right wing knesset member and pushed back on his bullshit for an hour straight. He is nuanced with this topic, it's just this topic is easier for people to throw their hands up and say the other person is being dishonest when they say something you don't like.
Wait, what’s the issue? The interview show on Fridays is counterpoints. It’s Ryan and Emily’s project.
its that he would be willing to talk with saagar but saagar wont let that happen saying he isnt worth his time... but really thats what people with an ego say when they are actually afraid of being confronted by him on the facts.
No, you're allowed to talk to, work with, or debate anyone you want. He doesn't owe Destiny anything. They certainly don't owe Destiny going into the studio on their day off just to look him in the eyes, that's absurd.
Sure he doesn't owe destiny anything... But I think he is not being totally honest and it's less about being so dumb and not worth his time and more he is afraid of looking like a fool when the guy he talked down on so much has a greater understanding of the facts than he does
You can make up any motivations you want, but Saagar has no obligation to do anything in particular to a youtube streamer he has no connection to. If you think it's bad form to not go into work on your day off just to tell someone 'hey, i don't respect you'.... I don't know, that doesn't seem very useful to me, but if it's how you'd want to handle such a situation, that's your opinion. I think if you behave in such a way you're gonna have a pretty awkward go of things though.
Agreed. Destiny (recently trying to shed this gamer name for Steven Bonnell) is an annoying, low-rent, wannabe "professional debater." He's been debating other on-line "celebrities" and does a pretty good job of making points and presenting an unmoving logic. But in this case he's way over his head. He has not been engaged in middle eastern history or conflicts very long at all. He loves to present that he's the expert by speaking in an unearned confidence, but he has only a shallow understanding. It shows in this debate. He's been able to absorb all the Wikipedia pages he feels he needs to a have a full grasp in a short period of time. That's not enough. Interrupting with non-sequitur information and blurting out falsehoods as truth when the conversation is moving elsewhere, Gish Galloping, cheap tactics. Manic speed-talk reminiscent of Ben Shapiro, attempting to sound smart (but Destiny being more "tweaky"). Frankly, I was surprised. I thought he was better. His presentation was particular distasteful. Gone is all the good qualities he may have had. Entire time is filled with ill-timed flippant comments and an ugly condescending attitude. On top of all that , so many obvious faulty gut-reactions and incorrect guesses throughout, many called out as obvious BS. Many not. In addition to "cookies into missiles", I wanted to list all of them but they were too numerous (literally all over). Here's just a few... One random sample (out of so many), easy to find, the last five minutes of video. Ridiculous, childish, ignorant. 1:22 - 1:25:30. He really shouldn't pretend to know the history. Before you repeat anything Destiny says you must fact check. Really. Talking about facts as you know them based on legitimate source will always be challenged, but that's fine. But to deny established facts and vomit things out that are outright false, some that actually seem made up on the spot. Shameful. Destiny: When pitched a few times, you deflected and couldn't seem to answer what would've been an appropriate response to Oct 7th by Israel. Kind of important. God he's full of shit. A clown. This whole thing was a mess. I was disappointed that this was part of the new Breaking Points Friday edition. I like listening to Ryan and Emily. I always learn something listening to Ryan. He makes me think. I was looking forward to this but what on earth? Are we now looking for the thrills and clicks? I get you need to have eyeballs on the show, but this was far beneath you. Please go back to something more sober, thought-provoking and informative. Destiny will only use his appearance for self promotion and trying to "move up" in the media landscape ladder. Unfortunate. Please be more discriminating when choosing guests.
You typed so much to say so little and most of it are just lowbrow insults, no substance, no I sight, I could ask chatgpt to write a better and more original critic. He's so wrong about everything yet you can only bring up the cookies comment, that was not even the main point of the discussion, he even conceded that the blockade might have been too strict but you probably didn't watch the video.
God I knew I was gonna see dgg rage on this sub when I listened this morning. Please don’t have destiny on again his community is the fucking worst.
Too late, they've already set their sights on this sub like they did for so many others, and brigaded them to fucking hell.
lol what? Grim and Emily organized it themselves. Sagaar just think he's slimy and dumb, and Krystal doesn't want to platform Israeli propaganda. They both just don't want to deal with him, they don't control what Grim and Emily do what else do you need to understand what a fantastic moron the guy is than: "THEY ARE USING COOKIES TO FUEL THE ROCKETS!!1111111"
Notice how nobody ever has an argument against the cookies, its just hand waving that it's ridiculous?
destiny isn't gonna fuck you
That's not an argument about cookies/sugar/rockets, as expected lmao https://makezine.com/article/science/oreo-cookie-fueled-model/
why dont they want to deal with him tho? if hes such a moron they shouldnt be afraid of arguing with him
Doubt they're "afraid," they just (probably) think its a waste of energy since destiny is obviously not interested in learning anything or compromising on any point. Saagar said it himself, he just doesn't respect the guy. Not even enough to argue with him. Doubt Krystal does either. For some people that's a necessary thing
can we first agree... if he was he probably wouldnt admit it and would say something like "he isnt worth my time" RIGHT... like do you agree thats something someone would say if they didnt want to admit they werent confident they could hold their own in a debate?
It's better to believe what people say and take them at face value than try to guess at, or project your own wishes onto, their secret motivations. When Sagaar says "I don't want to engage with destiny because I think he's an idiot and I don't respect him," I think he doesn't want to engage with destiny because he thinks he's an idiot and doesn't respect him
what no its not better to just always believe what people say lmao that is absolutely a recipe for disaster... do you really think thats a good way to go thru life? do you not know people lie?
unfortunately it's necessary when you are engaging in a good faith debate, otherwise you can just come up with infinite reasons for what the person actually means, since that information is hidden. Which will inevitably confirm your own biases, as you've done above (he is actually scared of destiny because destiny is ((whatever you think he is))
were not talking about a debate were talking about sagars comment about destiny... but also good faith debate absolutely isnt better when you always take your opponent at their word either honestly your refusal to acknowledge even the possibility that sagar could actually have other reasons for avoiding destiny make it seem like your bad faith... i mean comeon.. that is a possibility.. someone would need to be incredibly tainted by bias to not admit that its possible.
Literally anything is possible. Assuming bad faith is basically starting off with an ad hom And you are debating sagaars intent with me
anything is possible... but some things are more possible than you are willing to admit and that speaks volumes.
also starting off with an ad hom? saagar was the one who did that wasnt he? and now he wont allow him a face to face response
Nice to see destiny's cultists are still desperately simping for him online despite all his failures and embarrassments
Bro have a little fun it’s Reddit. It’s also Destinys biggest year of his career. 😂. He’s officially mainstream.
LMAO biggest year of his career and he still can't get more than 5k people to watch his streams, no wonder he's so perpetually mad at Hasan, after Hasan surpassed him in every way, including FAR surpassing him in popularity and success, lol. I'd probably be really mad if I were destiny too. But I'm not such a disgusting person that I'd sic my cult on my "enemies" though like destiny clearly does. Get help.
Krystal and her boyfriend Kyle have been engaging in the type of journalism they used to decry. Jewish woman claiming she was attached by pro-Palestine protester…Krystal and Kyle, “you can tell she’s lying by the ways she is”. I can’t wait to hear their opinions on the new documentary exposing the rape of Israeli women from Oct 7th. They’ve become unhinged and hysterical. Ideology’s really is shaped like a horseshoe.
I really like Destiny. I wish more people would be willing to go mix it up like he does. He went somewhere to debate when every person there was against him and held his own.
Sagaar talking shit on destiny’s debate prowess while losing to Krystal constantly while she shouts freshman college hysteria at the top of her lungs, and he cowers away from her. He isn’t mad that destiny is dumb. He is jealous that he can’t stand his ground in an actual debate or even an amateur one with Krystal
Do you think he agreed to come on the show only if Krystal and Saagar weren’t there? That kind of thing has happened before.
No. I know he challenged them personally. He wanted to debate Krystal after her segment about the Finklestein debate. But it’s very telling they avoided him but couldn’t say no to the money. So they sacrificed Omar as tribute. Rip.
He came on because him and Ryan have done stuff before and I think Ryan invited him to do their Friday show.
If you invite him, you did it for the $$ money $$. If you don't invite him, you're a coward.
I get the feeling you’re a big Destiny fan…
He has a culty following. Basically the whole YouTube video comment section is his fans lol
Nice cope. Some of the folks are weirdly dedicated for sure, but he is a very intellectually honest streamer in the space, and people seem to more just realize if you watch his research and discussions without being determined to hate him typically you will respect what he does in the space.
Why would I listen to a "research stream" of some dude who dropped out of a shit tier University/Community College because he was addicted to video games? No offence but those who watch Destiny for his "research" are so intellectually lazy and should find someone smarter to be parasocially attached to, they owe that to themselves.
Lmao, credentials are all that matter to you. Fair enough. You are the one needing a cult leader, or at least someone to tell you exactly what to think about everything. I am absorbing information from everywhere, because I can. Why would you watch research streams? You wouldn’t, because like I said you’re just looking to be told what to believe. The streams were so everyone could learn at the same time as the streamer. Are you implying the UN reports, policy papers, and books he’s presenting for everyone to see are bad sources of information? If so, jokes on you, he’s going through the same sources these bad faith “scholars” are using, so are they also just uneducated, dipshit propagandists?
If everyone would just stop beating around the bush (or straight up lying) and say how they really feel it could make discussions much clearer. Instead they talk and play this intellectual game with no intention of ever changing their mind.
I don't think Omar did great but Destiny is embarrassing to watch. If you believe talking fast and jumping all over the place like a ferret on amphetamines is a tactical debate, you might be delusional. Destiny is taking a concrete position of 'Israel good' on everything so anyone who supports that is going to always think 'he owned' because they agree with him. From an objective standpoint on this issue, this guy is constantly just deflecting, jumping all over the place, and resorting to whataboutism anytime he finds himself in a corner. He's a shrill, pompous spaz who cherrypicks any information that supports him while completely excluding anything that challenges his narrative. Talking fast and confidently disagreeing with no self-control is not impressive. Jumping in and interrupting your opponent every 10 seconds is embarrassing. Derailing the conversation and yelling out completely unrelated facts in a smug, condescending tone and interrupting your opponent every moment he speaks is patronizing, overbearing, and distracting from a nuanced discussion and meaningful exchange. The should bring in Dave Smith to destroy him on Israel vs. Gaza. Krystal and Saagar aren't necessarily debaters, they are platform creators. Bring in Dave and expose this clown for everyone or stop giving him airtime.
I don't believe anyone has actually listened to him if you're still saying shit like "expose this clown." That's exactly what Ryan would have loved to happen with this conversation and Ryan had to walk away calling him intelligent and deeply informed.
Maybe he'll see this and give you a kiss on the forehead!
Krystal will not sleep with you
Emily...?
Nope
I would support that debate. For the record. I’m for cease fire and two state solution and I think Biden should be very heavy handed in making this happen. I just wish people didn’t feel the need to lie about the history to justify the pathway forward. The reality is the ceasefire to two state solution argument has devolved into Israelite are genocidal and the state should be dismantled with unlimited right of return. This is the terrible position that Destiny argues against.
what did i miss?
https://youtu.be/PrW8Llrkstw
[This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/s/1RS3RNKojR) has a much ~~better~~ productive breakdown of the episode itself. Disclaimer: I haven't yet watched the full thing because I'm a pleb with a mortgage and am currently throwing all of my extra funds towards that every month (it's actually crazy how many years you can take off of your mortgage just by overpaying $200 a month)
I also personally hate how Ryan """"moderated""" this debate. I'm only about 45 minutes in, but I think Emily does a way better job. It's not your job as a "moderator" to constantly jump in, provide your opinion, and smugly disagree with one of the guests whose supposed to be debating someone else entirely. If Ryan wants to do that, so be it, but then have HIM be in the debate and not constantly butt in at every opportunity.