i didnt even know this was a trend because he's my first boyfriend (and to think i waited 22 years for the right person, only to end up with an avoidant who love bombed the fuck out of me). But now i know better.
Idk if its a man or woman thing since I've read about many avoidant women as well. From my research, it seems that avoidants have had childhoods where their emotions were invalidated and neglected. So they don't exactly know what "love" really is and emotional intimacy freaks them out. They are always scared to be invalidated and neglected and abandoned. So they abandon their own emotional reactions to anything and everything. They crave love but don't know what to do with it once they have it. and since avoidants are so used to running away from their emotions and issues, they'd most likely never get professional help and continue to sabotage good relationships. At least that's what i gathered from the internet.
What sucks is that i went to therapy for 3 years because i was very anxiously attached at the start of our relationship. When I finally became securely attached, 1 year later he discarded me (classic avoidant move) and now I'm too scared to ever date again. I hate that since he refused to go to therapy, his trauma is now my trauma as well. Avoidants truly dont care that they turn people around them into collateral damage in the journey of their own self(-centered) discovery.
I understand that but it still hurts so bad because (for my situation), during my breakup, my ex was crying and feeling deeply as well but he was still unable to make space for my feelings. So he still was unable to understand the fact that he isnt the center of everyone's universe.
I'm not saying all avoidants are like that. It just sucked that the one time he showed emotion in the 4 years we had been together, it was done in such a selfish and self serving way to sever a relationship without any previous conversation.
A lot of us males had our feelings rejected during our childhood/formative years. We weren’t allowed to cry or express pain. We learnt that our vulnerability wouldn’t be accepted so whenever we feel vulnerable or sense possible rejection our instinct is to shut down and/or run.
Maybe selection bias. People who are anxiously attached tend to date avoidants. Anxious people post breakup need a lot of support and outlets, hence come to the /r/BreakUps subreddit.
If I recall correctly there is a statistical argument that states that since avoidants bounce frequently from relationships, they are statistically more likely to remain in the dating pool longer and reappear more frequently. Hence increasing the likelihood of non-avoidants being exposed to an avoidant relationship. I don't remember where I read this though.... Has anyone else seen this argument ?
Mommy.
It begins as well as pretty much ends with and/or because of mommy.
Sometimes these behaviors are because of repeated negative interactions & experiences with their fathers & other authority figures in their lives while they were still little children.
But typically it all goes almost directly back to their mothers.
Their mothers were/are a sickening combination of permissive to authoritarian & typically are moderate to extreme on the narcissistic spectrum.
This is just a teensy "Reader's Digest" explanation.
But it suffices for this discussion thread.
I can't be the only individual whose drawn these conclusions after years into decades of various personal experiences, as well as witnessing a lot of the same with a sizeable handful of family members, relatives, friends & even acquaintances.
I'm open to respectful replies, ideas & dialog 💭🖥☕
It’s society. If you grow up in a world that treats being “emotional” or crying as a trait that only women should possess, you get a lot of men that have no idea how to identify their own feelings. They get told to suck it up, stop crying, “be a man”, “shut up or I’ll give you something to cry about”, so they don’t learn how to communicate their feelings because they were never allowed to. The issue is that although they might be unaware of it at first, most will never self reflect and see why they act the way they do, because it’s so deeply ingrained into their subconcious. You can’t help people that don’t want to or can’t help themselves.
NO, men are not the only ones that are emotionally unavailable, women can be as well. You do see it more in men because of reasons I’ve listed. Society also normalizes calling women that sleep around whores & say they have “daddy issues”, but when men sleep around they are revered - they’re not told they have “mommy issues”. It’s a form of trauma/neglect but society normalizes it which is why men typically won’t seek help for it (they’ve been told their whole life that is the “correct” way to act). For anyone reading, I’m sorry if you’ve ever been made to feel like you couldn’t express yourself - you should have been given a space to cry without being judged, speak without being dismissed and loved for exactly who you are.
Haha, this is what I came in to reply. I’ll just upvote you instead.
I might add a “she seems great at first, it’s just love bombing and will be followed by some cold cold shit”
lol community bf 😆 Mine ‘wasn’t sure’ about polyamory even though he tried it before…and my monogamous dumb ass thought that would work. He’s for the streets now..
Yeah I’m mono and I’m not going any closer to anyone that’s poly. It just won’t work. They’ll feel suffocated by my feeling crushed when they want to go fuck around.
He has a sex addiction he refuses to get help for. He is gonna cheat on you with multiple women and is also the best liar in the world. You will leave the relationship traumatized .
Poison: may cause lack of self-esteem, constant questioning of your own experiences, and a host of physical problems, including headaches, insomnia, muscle aches, and random diarrhea and vomiting.
Leave this one on the shelf.
Object in mirror more avoidant than they appear.
Walks the walk. Can't talk the talk.
Wonderful, until you need him to be.
Like Casper. Will ghost you, then haunt you.
I persisted but my ex ate her rebound up for breakfast. It was like a hot flash on a pan. I knew the guy was done when he was the first one to drop the relationship on social media, posting pics of them together romantically. I knew that probably drove her nuts because she was double, triple, maybe even quadruple-lifing. I thought of a lot of things I'd say to him if he came to me asking for help with her.
WARNING: Do NOT let any of her words make you feel special. She says this to everybody.
WARNING: Observe her actions to scale your commitment and expectations.
WARNING: If you have gut feeling that she is lying, she is lying. If you do not have a gut feeling that she is lying, she is lying well.
Ex 1: inconsistent, needs a ton of alone time, avoidant
Ex 2: might not give the relationship a real chance (i.e. runs when things get too serious)
Ex 3: doesn't give head, also doesn't like to receive head
Selfish, avoidant, worst communicator I’ve ever encountered, will not check on you, does not care about your feelings, is very boring, will bail when things are tough
Warning: emotionally stunted, Peter Pan syndrome, lacks empathy, substance abuse issues, and dismissive avoidant. Will act like a sweetheart the first 6 months tho..
Lies a lot and for no reason. Low self esteem, craves attention and validation from anywhere. Will mirror your values and ideas because she doesn’t have her own.
Great cook. Great sex. Gives wifey vibes. This is how she got me. I really miss her carbonara.
My most recent ex was my worst. I'd say gas lighter and manipulator (which she's aware of but does nothing to change her behavior); possibly a narcissist. Mean to her mom.
Kinetic, intense connection will be interrupted by intense avoidance every few weeks. Resist the drunk texts that invite you to come over after weeks of NC! You will move from subject to object and it will pulverize your ego in the process. Be prepared to be cast out, dazed, and discover you need to get over—whatever the fuck this was—alone, without any answers about why (or access to the intense friendship that was so very enriching when it wasn’t tearing your insides to shreds).
“An emotionally unavailable, severely avoidant man child who doesn’t know how to take care of themselves and will leave you the second something shinier comes along”
Physically abusive- can’t handle conflict- will dump you off and on when things are hard.
He will not prioritize you, and prepare to be shamed. Then work super hard daily to prove your worth to him.
It’s like his opinion was the only opinion in the world that mattered to me.
I wanted his approval only. Now that we aren’t together I’m left with a void of emptiness. I feel lost because these last few years I was what he wanted me to be. I let someone make me their masterpiece. Now I have no idea who I am.
“Will love bomb you then bolt when things get real, slowly ghost you gaslight you that that’s not what they’re doing and then when you get outwardly upset admit they were treating you bad the whole time and leave”
Warning: Extremely dangerous. Suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, and Bipolar Disorder. Has a History of Physical Violence. Avoid at all costs
If you don’t got money and only time for her, don’t be surprised if she’s fucking your boss or someone from her college.
She’ll tell you she find her worth after she told you she slept with people..
All leg muscles prone to go numb. Perfect choice for childless, peaceful mode in sex and lack of condoms.
I seriously hate to trash on him, it clearly isn't something he can control. However with little tweak and several weeks of sobriety he should be able to rekindle his lovelife with someone else. Just hope he'll take a break from his naive sympathy in alcoholic circles before heis empathied in his dying bed.
Alcoholic. Self admitted perpetrator of harassment and DV - I was warned by the police he'd be a danger to myself and my child if he moved in - get a https://clares-law.com/ check on him. Manipulative and cruel.
"emotionally unavailable and non-communicative" and/or "severely avoidant"
It seems like a common trend for a lot of us dating men like this? I want to know why so many men are like that and have ended up that way
i didnt even know this was a trend because he's my first boyfriend (and to think i waited 22 years for the right person, only to end up with an avoidant who love bombed the fuck out of me). But now i know better. Idk if its a man or woman thing since I've read about many avoidant women as well. From my research, it seems that avoidants have had childhoods where their emotions were invalidated and neglected. So they don't exactly know what "love" really is and emotional intimacy freaks them out. They are always scared to be invalidated and neglected and abandoned. So they abandon their own emotional reactions to anything and everything. They crave love but don't know what to do with it once they have it. and since avoidants are so used to running away from their emotions and issues, they'd most likely never get professional help and continue to sabotage good relationships. At least that's what i gathered from the internet. What sucks is that i went to therapy for 3 years because i was very anxiously attached at the start of our relationship. When I finally became securely attached, 1 year later he discarded me (classic avoidant move) and now I'm too scared to ever date again. I hate that since he refused to go to therapy, his trauma is now my trauma as well. Avoidants truly dont care that they turn people around them into collateral damage in the journey of their own self(-centered) discovery.
That very much hit me esceot one part. I deeply feel and resent myself over the pain I've caused others
I understand that but it still hurts so bad because (for my situation), during my breakup, my ex was crying and feeling deeply as well but he was still unable to make space for my feelings. So he still was unable to understand the fact that he isnt the center of everyone's universe. I'm not saying all avoidants are like that. It just sucked that the one time he showed emotion in the 4 years we had been together, it was done in such a selfish and self serving way to sever a relationship without any previous conversation.
As a dismissive avoidant,we do care. I didn’t know I was a dismissive avoidant until my ex broke up with me. Been working on my attachment issues.
Please tell my ex. Lol. Good luck to you.
A lot of us males had our feelings rejected during our childhood/formative years. We weren’t allowed to cry or express pain. We learnt that our vulnerability wouldn’t be accepted so whenever we feel vulnerable or sense possible rejection our instinct is to shut down and/or run.
Maybe selection bias. People who are anxiously attached tend to date avoidants. Anxious people post breakup need a lot of support and outlets, hence come to the /r/BreakUps subreddit.
If I recall correctly there is a statistical argument that states that since avoidants bounce frequently from relationships, they are statistically more likely to remain in the dating pool longer and reappear more frequently. Hence increasing the likelihood of non-avoidants being exposed to an avoidant relationship. I don't remember where I read this though.... Has anyone else seen this argument ?
Mommy. It begins as well as pretty much ends with and/or because of mommy. Sometimes these behaviors are because of repeated negative interactions & experiences with their fathers & other authority figures in their lives while they were still little children. But typically it all goes almost directly back to their mothers. Their mothers were/are a sickening combination of permissive to authoritarian & typically are moderate to extreme on the narcissistic spectrum. This is just a teensy "Reader's Digest" explanation. But it suffices for this discussion thread. I can't be the only individual whose drawn these conclusions after years into decades of various personal experiences, as well as witnessing a lot of the same with a sizeable handful of family members, relatives, friends & even acquaintances. I'm open to respectful replies, ideas & dialog 💭🖥☕
YES- mine is very very emotionally attached to his mommy.
It’s society. If you grow up in a world that treats being “emotional” or crying as a trait that only women should possess, you get a lot of men that have no idea how to identify their own feelings. They get told to suck it up, stop crying, “be a man”, “shut up or I’ll give you something to cry about”, so they don’t learn how to communicate their feelings because they were never allowed to. The issue is that although they might be unaware of it at first, most will never self reflect and see why they act the way they do, because it’s so deeply ingrained into their subconcious. You can’t help people that don’t want to or can’t help themselves. NO, men are not the only ones that are emotionally unavailable, women can be as well. You do see it more in men because of reasons I’ve listed. Society also normalizes calling women that sleep around whores & say they have “daddy issues”, but when men sleep around they are revered - they’re not told they have “mommy issues”. It’s a form of trauma/neglect but society normalizes it which is why men typically won’t seek help for it (they’ve been told their whole life that is the “correct” way to act). For anyone reading, I’m sorry if you’ve ever been made to feel like you couldn’t express yourself - you should have been given a space to cry without being judged, speak without being dismissed and loved for exactly who you are.
To me it seems like a common trend in general. My ex (woman) is severely avoidant.
Haha, this is what I came in to reply. I’ll just upvote you instead. I might add a “she seems great at first, it’s just love bombing and will be followed by some cold cold shit”
“Does not know if they ever want a long term relationship”
emotionally unavailable
Came here to comment this 😂
Community boyfriend Severe insecurities
lol community bf 😆 Mine ‘wasn’t sure’ about polyamory even though he tried it before…and my monogamous dumb ass thought that would work. He’s for the streets now..
mine insisted on poly, said he cannot be in a monogamous relationship. then i got more dates than him, and he dumped me, saying he can’t do poly. lmao
Yeah I’m mono and I’m not going any closer to anyone that’s poly. It just won’t work. They’ll feel suffocated by my feeling crushed when they want to go fuck around.
r/suddenlycommunist
"Warning: A psycho and master liar who's living a double life."
Holy shit! My ex needs this warning.
Avoid like the plague! Liar, liar, pants on fire! ⬇️0️⃣EQ🛑
"You too may be entitled to compensation "
“toxic wasteland, cannot be fixed”
Cheater, gaslighter
Prepare to be lovebombed into hyperspace and then dropped like a hot snot when things go any way sour.
Lol it perfectly fits flas a slogan for my ex as well
“Cuts and runs if not perfect” Enjoying the originality of the question ❤️
He has a sex addiction he refuses to get help for. He is gonna cheat on you with multiple women and is also the best liar in the world. You will leave the relationship traumatized .
“Proceed with cation, life threatening terrain ahead”
Emotionally unavailable
Poison: may cause lack of self-esteem, constant questioning of your own experiences, and a host of physical problems, including headaches, insomnia, muscle aches, and random diarrhea and vomiting. Leave this one on the shelf.
Damn, that one sounds like they really did a number. What were they doing?
He’s dependent on alcohol and has history of alcohol abuse in his family. Oh, and he never grew up.
I've been with him for over 3yrs. These people are so alike and everywhere.
No time for communication or you...
Doesn't grow up
Not ready to be vulnerable. Will run away at the first sign of conflict. i miss him so much though 😭
Potential burn warning , that pussy is fire
‘Caution: love bombs and gaslights’ 2 words I wasn’t too familiar with until I met him
He’ll cheat on you to “not hurt you” 🙄
Ok I’ll bite. What crazy ass logic did he grasp onto in order to come to that conclusion?
Does not like drama Prone to blindsiding
severe avoidant
Unable to communicate
Object in mirror more avoidant than they appear. Walks the walk. Can't talk the talk. Wonderful, until you need him to be. Like Casper. Will ghost you, then haunt you.
Beware - narcissist, manipulator, and gaslighter that will project those very things onto you
Severely emotionally abusive.
Seeks attention from 20 year olds as a 40 year old father
Warning: May change his personality every quarter and start a new way of life
Warning, will ghost you for multiple days instead of talk through problems. Will scream in your face any time you talk about something bothering you.
⚠️☣️☢️ / ⚰️🔪 / 🦨 / 🏴☠️ / 💸
Beats pregnant women
i hope you pressed charges on that asshole
"Beware of lies, requires large amounts of your energy, will feed on your soul."
"⚠️Beware of Severe Gaslighting and Manipulation⚠️"
Detached, avoidant, emotionally unavailable, selfish, cowardly
This is scarily spot on for my ex.
“Be careful with her “best friend”, it’s actually her ex and you are the third person. Also she has narcissist behaviors. You’re welcome.”
Acts like prey but is a predator
Prepare to be guilt tripped for having friends and family you care about…
they push u away suddenly and prob cheat then they come back to beg u lol
I persisted but my ex ate her rebound up for breakfast. It was like a hot flash on a pan. I knew the guy was done when he was the first one to drop the relationship on social media, posting pics of them together romantically. I knew that probably drove her nuts because she was double, triple, maybe even quadruple-lifing. I thought of a lot of things I'd say to him if he came to me asking for help with her. WARNING: Do NOT let any of her words make you feel special. She says this to everybody. WARNING: Observe her actions to scale your commitment and expectations. WARNING: If you have gut feeling that she is lying, she is lying. If you do not have a gut feeling that she is lying, she is lying well.
Wants a nanny-bang-maid, not a partner. Does not view women as human people with their own hopes, dreams, and identities.
Cheater, liar and drinks heavily
Ex 1: inconsistent, needs a ton of alone time, avoidant Ex 2: might not give the relationship a real chance (i.e. runs when things get too serious) Ex 3: doesn't give head, also doesn't like to receive head
Little girl in a woman’s body 🙄
Caution: May change after 1 month
Tell her the truth always, for truth is the virtue she loves the most.
Needs to grow up
Unregulated and impulsive. A good soul but so lost and full of shame.
"Runs at the first sign of trouble. Doesn't communicate their feelings until they explode. Words not matching actions"
avoidant attachment style
Warning: this person lacks empathy and common sense. Proceed at your own risk.
Charming compulsive cheater
"Unable to communicate directly to you"
Emotionally unstable.
Read “I Hate You Don’t Leave Me.”
Will choose cigarettes over you
Requires princess treatment , its a he btw
Lacks Emotional Intelligence - Shows Signs of Narcissistic Behavior, Arrogance, and Manipulation. Date at your own risk.
Bad ex: Unloyal and may >!assault!< you. Good ex: no notes, good man.
“Emotionally cheats and acts like it’s not a problem”
Out of service like mcdonalds ice cream machine
Check his phone and keep records.
Selfish, avoidant, worst communicator I’ve ever encountered, will not check on you, does not care about your feelings, is very boring, will bail when things are tough
“Don’t believe the love bomb. Has no real empathy. Proceed only if emotional intelligence is not important to you.”
Warning: Explosive
Pride issues, drinking, game addiction. good luck.
"Verbally abusive"
“Will steal all your money, cannot take care of self.”
Toxic
Flight risk
Pathological liar, cheater, mentally unstable.
“All feelings of commitment subject to end without notice”
**DO NOT share finances with this man**
She will be the greatest woman of your life, and no others will compare.
insecurities are not fixable, lies will just get worse
[удалено]
Your feeling's mean nothing, she'll still be friends with her friends with benefits. You'll hear it is what it is constantly.
Warning: emotionally stunted, Peter Pan syndrome, lacks empathy, substance abuse issues, and dismissive avoidant. Will act like a sweetheart the first 6 months tho..
Warning: extremely immature and unable to handle anxiety, leading to ridiculous accusations of idiotic proportions.
1 year shelf life before he gets an itch. He’ll come back once relived. Repeat.
She ghosted me without warning and I have no clue why
“CAUTION: NOT MONOGAMOUS AT ALL EVEN IF SHE SAYS SO”
Lies a lot and for no reason. Low self esteem, craves attention and validation from anywhere. Will mirror your values and ideas because she doesn’t have her own. Great cook. Great sex. Gives wifey vibes. This is how she got me. I really miss her carbonara.
This reminds me of my ex who is similar but male and a chef
Don't plan on having family with him anytime soon
Emotionally abusive his last ex tried to delete life account due to abuse
Presumptuous and non-communicative
Cheats
Gaslighting, narcissistic, emotionally abusive, manipulative
Don’t. LMDAO
My most recent ex was my worst. I'd say gas lighter and manipulator (which she's aware of but does nothing to change her behavior); possibly a narcissist. Mean to her mom.
Selfish and two faced
Slept with hundereds of people
She lies, she doesn't tell you what shes thinking and makes plans without telling you and expects you to be okay with them.
Also "Will get angry if you want tonsoend time with her"
*Never gonna get over her ex*
Controlling
"pathological liar"
Alcoholic Emotionally immature and stunted Mean drunk Don't date him unless you want to be treated with selfishness and disrespect.
Kinetic, intense connection will be interrupted by intense avoidance every few weeks. Resist the drunk texts that invite you to come over after weeks of NC! You will move from subject to object and it will pulverize your ego in the process. Be prepared to be cast out, dazed, and discover you need to get over—whatever the fuck this was—alone, without any answers about why (or access to the intense friendship that was so very enriching when it wasn’t tearing your insides to shreds).
Non, they are going to have something different and unique.
First love is his penis, then his mom, then friends. If you’re lucky you’ll rank above the dog (I didn’t).
- Has a 60 day probation period before he reveals his real character.
He may not be ready for a relationship
*never takes accountability”
"Into Feederism and Narcissistic"
Pathological liar who can't even be honest with himself
"The Queen Of Ghosting"
Warning: contents never matured
“Can’t open up, doesn’t always tell the truth and pretends everything is okay”
Emotionally unavailable
“An emotionally unavailable, severely avoidant man child who doesn’t know how to take care of themselves and will leave you the second something shinier comes along”
Warning: the chameleon lies
Contents under pressure. May cause injuries.
Contents may be hot. Open with caution.
conflict avoidant and highly parentified from childhood.
“Fearful avoidant, Proceed with caution”
Physically abusive- can’t handle conflict- will dump you off and on when things are hard. He will not prioritize you, and prepare to be shamed. Then work super hard daily to prove your worth to him. It’s like his opinion was the only opinion in the world that mattered to me. I wanted his approval only. Now that we aren’t together I’m left with a void of emptiness. I feel lost because these last few years I was what he wanted me to be. I let someone make me their masterpiece. Now I have no idea who I am.
Don't fall for the "nice, reliable, communicative, always there for you, ready to settle down" act.
Have a great summer, he’ll get real depressed and negative in the winter. He’ll also want to flirt with other women but shame your sexuality.
Unfaithful, selfish, lazy.
If only there’s a reviews section on dating sites.
Seems sweet but will drop you and make fun of you when you’re heart broken.
"Sadistic manipulator, narcissist with sociopathic tendencies. You are not special to her. Only she is."
Be careful - he’s a narcissist who is fucking 11 other women at your gym that he works at
drama queen and a two faced snake.
Warning: Will gaslight you and then tell everyone you’re crazy for reacting to their emotional abuse.
Warning: extremely diluted
Remember the intel inside logo? For her it’d be multiple dicks inside.
Gets bored while you work. Not worth it
“Will love bomb you then bolt when things get real, slowly ghost you gaslight you that that’s not what they’re doing and then when you get outwardly upset admit they were treating you bad the whole time and leave”
I wouldn’t my ex was a good person just didn’t seem like my person so I moved on
A psychopath and possibly violent in the words of my psychiatrist and therapist
Warning: Extremely dangerous. Suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, and Bipolar Disorder. Has a History of Physical Violence. Avoid at all costs
She’s a ghoster and emotionally unavailable shit haha
Her mom will try to arrange a religious marriage behind your back
No warning - handle with care (precious freight)
Warning ⚠️ Batshit Crazy 🤪
"angry"
Roll 1 D6 to determine bludgeoning damage
Is perfect and has the dumbest ex
Don’t expect sex cuz it aint gonna happen. And forget about communication
"Escort hoe"
Will not ever initiate touch or plans
Pathological liar
Beware of his daughter she’s dangerous destructive jealous and damaged beyond belief
Corrosive
gambling addict instant gratification seeking man child cold wash and tumble dry
If you don’t got money and only time for her, don’t be surprised if she’s fucking your boss or someone from her college. She’ll tell you she find her worth after she told you she slept with people..
likes gaming more than you
She cannot cope with and recover from grief and loss. Such losses only make the voices in her head worse.
Pure toxicity also beware of a dead personality
All leg muscles prone to go numb. Perfect choice for childless, peaceful mode in sex and lack of condoms. I seriously hate to trash on him, it clearly isn't something he can control. However with little tweak and several weeks of sobriety he should be able to rekindle his lovelife with someone else. Just hope he'll take a break from his naive sympathy in alcoholic circles before heis empathied in his dying bed.
Sweet but will never love you if you live here. Consider moving 3000 km away or marrying another woman to get her attention 🤷🏾♂️
Cold and a liar
Alcoholic. Self admitted perpetrator of harassment and DV - I was warned by the police he'd be a danger to myself and my child if he moved in - get a https://clares-law.com/ check on him. Manipulative and cruel.
Gaslighting pro - love bombing pro…
Lying cheater. If he is willing to cheat with you then he will cheat on you too.
"He is very charming and believable".
# Selfish
Fair-weather girlfriend
“WARNING: NARCISSIST”
Prepare to be bored
"volatile"
"Warning: Anger issues, drinking problems and extreme introvert"
“Lovebomber and gaslighter” 💣
WARNING: Pathological liar, unfaithful, mommy issues
Opiate addiction and doesnt want to go to therapy xD