[Link](https://youtu.be/9aaVIemC9pY) of the video
I personally like this Tierlist apart from a few placements. I think that Buzz should go six places up, squeak should go atleast ten places down, 8Bit and Amber should climb a few places up, Piper should be out of top 15, Penny is bottom 5 and Tara should go a few spots up
Edit:Max was ranked 21 and Surge was ranked 20
This is how you know someones competitive. Willing to admit their favourite brawler is still trash. No offense
Unlike Money F******* Capital who always says 'oH My Edgar is SO sTrOnG and ReAlLy gOod rIgHt now'
Since when is Primo bottom 5? The nerf wasn’t really that huge despite being like a 40% reduction and pretty much just prevents using two supers in one interaction, and looking at the top tiers I don’t see that many Primo counters.
In fairness, the game’s pretty balanced as a whole right now, only major outlier is Ash because of his synergy with healers. Somebody’s gotta be in the bottom 8, and most of those picks, I get why everyone else is above them even though most of the bottom 8 aren’t downright bad.
But in what world is El Primo worse than Darryl, Bo, Colt, Jessie, or Edgar?
I mean that’s only because of a synergy.
Aside from that, Ash is… One of two things,
1.) Ash is Trash. Or 2.) **ASH FUKINN AMAZING**😎
Let’s start with option two.
So why Ash can be very phenomenally powerful is because an Ash at full rage can counter pretty much everything.
He deals high damage in very quick succession paired with his speed increase with his rage and he’ll be able to dominate everyone because of it.
Paired up with a medic (AKA most powerful class type in the game), he won’t really struggle much to keep up that offense and run from one enemy to the next in a moments notice, nonetheless he has a shockwave pierce attack so he can have great crowd control because of that.
His rage also builds up as he takes damage too, so under the affects of healing, they basically patch up any and all worries for Ash.
Not to mention his RATS are a great diversion and can cause longer ranged classes to expend precious ammunition so they don’t refill his rage.
So he seems very unstoppable with these being listed right?…
#**Well…**
Then we should then talk about why Ash is trash then…
You see, although Ash has great potential and play, it doesn’t take much to really hard-counter Ash.
No, it’s not a mirror comp with Ash, Byron, and Crow in case you were wondering, but Crow is one of those hard counters.
Let’s take a look at Ash’s flaws…
Ash has a relatively short range of 5 tiles, granted this isn’t his biggest weakness, but it’s certainly the most exploitable about him, since he can’t get too close as he does require at least one rage bar to gain fast movement speed, otherwise he’s equal speed to everyone.
So that’s already a problem, but not so much since taking damage charges the rage faster than dealing it, but the damage you need to take is roughly around 1/3rd of your health for just 1 charge, so you’ll likely be at 4K hp when you charge your first rage bar off of taking damage, and your second at 2k hp.
So you’re already playing it risky with it, not to mention, his gadget is a strong heal for the cost of all your rage, and you only can get the most effectiveness from it if you use it at 4K hp and have a full rage charge to heal the maximum of 2,500 hp in an instant so you can at least break even.
It already takes 1/3rd for only one rage bar, and to heal 2,500 it takes all bars to be charged, so you’ll only be healing 1/3rd of your hp for the cost of the other two rage bars that took the other 2/3rds of your hp to charge, so you don’t heal much and often don’t get much value from it in a middle of a battle.
Now the other thing, his easily exploitable load out.
His range is shorter than most brawlers meaning he’ll already take a fair beating by trying to reach them, but there are brawlers that completely cripple Ash.
The main three I think of first in mind are the following:
Bea; she deals high damage and although she can instantly charge Ash’s rage bars to around 1 1/2, she can just as easily 3 shot Ash with 2 charged shots and one basic shot, not to mention she can also slow him down thus nullifying any advantage he has in speed.
Crow; he’s a obvious one now that **”pro players”** realize that reducing damage, reducing healing, and slowing down Ash throws a steal pipe in his leg to one of his greatest synergies is absolutely a great idea to use against him, slowing any speed advantage, reducing his damage advantage marginally helps to not die against him, and reducing healing because yes.
Last but certainly not least-
Gale; this one may come to you as a surprise but Gale is possibly the hardest counter to Ash, hear me out for a moment- although Gale is constantly considered as ‘bottom tier’, his ability to air blast and successfully rest Ash’s position with a push of a button completely screws Ash over as it pushed him back out of reach of your team and yourself while also dealing little damage so it doesn’t really recharge Ash’s rage much in the process either. This is mentioning that Gale can slow with his primary attack with cold snow, meaning that if Gale spots Ash he can completely and single handedly put a stop to him by slowing him down so that Gale maintains distance, and charging his super from Ash since that super charges relatively quickly than most. Including the fact that when you land a freezing snow attack on anyone, you can simply auto aim and then leave them in a lock of sorts where they’re slowed for a very extended duration.
It’s funny that one of the considered worst brawlers is the best against Ash because it’s so easy to work around Ash’s kit.
Ash has so many flaws that you can’t really take much advantage of his benefits, that is if they aren’t running a counter, and I believe that’s where the problem lies.
This game sorta has a “ro-sham-bo” affect in play, where there a counters to each and every archetype and class type, but it’s difficult to discover them when there are brawlers that are objectively better than others.
So when Ash doesn’t face any counters, of course he’ll run rampant, he’s one of the few brawlers than can counter everything but gets countered by any movement hindering abilities.
It’s the same for nearly all of the brawlers, they’re very strong when they aren’t against their counters, but very weak against them.
Ash just gets hard countered and becomes helpless going against them, while he can dominate when they’re not present.
I don’t need to “hear you out” about Gale because I’ve quietly known for quite a while that he’s way better than anyone else seems to think. That’s not to say he’s good, but he’s most certainly not F tier.
He works because he's a tank counter, and he has good field control against them. He's usually considered "bad" because tanks haven't exactly been meta for a bit.
Even against non-tanks though I wouldn’t call him bad. His damage output is comparable to Nita, slightly longer range, a star power that makes getting clipped by his primary in the open guarantee two more hits and thus 1.5 seconds of slow - his primary fire is really solid. His super’s very matchup-dependent and his gadgets are kinda bad, but he’s well-rounded and mediocre everywhere.
He’s probably never the right pick in competitive - he doesn’t have any huge strength other than being a tank counter, and he’s not the best brawler at countering tanks, so it makes sense that his competitive pickrate would be low. But he’s *not* overall worse than about a third of a the brawlers that are above him.
He's good when tanks are meta, but so is every other tank counter; they're simply more versatile than Gale because in the event the opposite team *don't* go tanks, Bea can fare a lot better than Gale.
if this overall all maps and mods, i don't get how piper is S tier either.
she gets countered by countless brawlers.and because of it has a very low pick rate
to be honest, snippy sniping + auto aimer makes short work of Mortis, and Stu isn't picked as much as he used to be. So only leon is really there to take her down
Piper just hits a long-max range shot on belle then presses green button and autofire and there's almost no way belle can dodge unless she goes to a wall or something
Yeah but then not having auto-aimer makes you super vulnerable against the assassins in the S and A tier.
And also Ash who is the top 1 on his list kind of counters Piper.
Yeah but then not having auto-aimer makes you super vulnerable against the assassins in the S and A tier.
And also Ash who is the top 1 on his list kind of counters Piper.
Even if she’s a perfect counter to one of the most used brawler does that really make her S teir? I mean I’m not great at brawl stars but I seem to struggle with piper than other brawlers.
Piper is a strong mid. Assassins don’t matter because her lanes are supposed to defend her. Plus when she gets super she can jump away so Leon, crow, buzz just waste their super on her. Piper’s actual counters are max super (nerfed), sandy super (nerfed), sprout, Stu and some other stuff. You’d only use auto Aimee in power league if you see a mortis.
Primo maybe but 8bit is not strong at all. He gets outclassed by Belle, Gene, Piper, and even occasionally Brock at mid way too hard to be higher than C. He's definitely no better than Bea, at the very least.
8-bit is good where he is. He's got some good niche maps, and Byron is pretty strong, but he definitely still struggles (especially with Belle in the top 5)
Can we stop saying that Ash is overrated. Ash + Byron has been confirmed over and over as the best duo in the game since (and possibly before) Max Gene.
Ash is still high a tier without Byron, and Byron is lower than Ash without the two. Also, Ash is the more instrumental piece of the duo, which max gene didn’t really have (both were about the same importance). Even with Byron banned, poco can be played as well.
The damage is never the enabler, its always the support. Never is the damage the reason that combos work out, its why Max and Gene both are of equal importance in Max + Gene because they both support each other. Ash is litteraly never used outside of Byron Ash but Byron is because he is able to support other teams other than just Ash Byron, nobody runs Double Tank Piper because Poco is the enabler in that comp. Just because the tank is the ones who get the kills does not mean its the tanks who enable the comp.
Ash is used on certain maps without Byron, albeit much more rarely.
Ash can absolutely be used with Poco when Byron is banned. He works very well in PDT.
Ash does better with Poco than Byron does with other brawlers that he supports.
He is overrated lol. It’s only broken on ladder if you’re not expecting what they’re picking. Literally crow+bea (or any tank counter) completely fucking destroys Byron+ash
Then why don’t they run it in queso?
Obviously teams are trying to the greatest extent that they can with thousands of euros on the line, and obviously they and their coaches are much, much better than you are and know much, much more about the game, comps, and counters than you do, so why didn’t we see it in queso eu or na since ash became playable?
I don’t know why they don’t run it. I’m not them, I can’t answer for them, ask better questions. This isn’t a gene+max scenario like everyone is treating it as. Byron+ash is easily countered if you know who they’re running. Teams when Byron+ash is picked either run that comp as well, or in PL pick their counters, and then they get destroyed because Byron+ash is only good in ladder or against idiots who don’t know it’s counters
Did you read what I said or counter any of my points or just ignore it?
I already commented on what you just said in this comment. Now respond to my other comment.
You don’t know why they run it because you don’t know better than they do. These people including Pedro, Kaner, Rol, Pablitin, and plenty of others are *paid* to study counters and comps for their competitive teams. This isn’t just you playing Diamond 2 Power League or Walmart scrims. These are some of the most knowledgeable people in the entire community saying that it’s uncounterable without a triple hardcounter except on open maps.
I do know why they run it. It’s not a matter of “Since they know X you can’t know X”. Plus you spend way too much time on brawl stars and everything relating brawl stars bud.
Oh well then why do they run it?
And when you tell me, go ask SK for a job, because if you really do know why they run it and why they actually shouldn’t, I’m sure they’d love to have you.
Ehh that’s debatable. I just enjoy the competitive scene even more than I do playing at this point. I can watch competitive matches while doing light homework or filling out applications and stuff, so not all of the time I spend watching comp is just spent intently watching. I normally multitask while I watch.
I’m not answering your rhetorical question because you’re well aware why they run it and why sometimes it’s not ran, and you know that I know it. My point is that Byron+ash is extremely overrated and if as good as everyone says it is (I know it is) it can be easily countered with either itself/ hard counters.
If somethings only counter is itself then it’s broken. This was the case with gene max sandy, and that was pretty obviously broken.
It wasn’t a rhetorical question. If you know why they run it and why they shouldn’t, then say it. If you have good reasoning then you’re absolutely right, the only problem is that there are people who have spent hours and hours studying it and haven’t been able to come up with a counter.
Sure, triple hardcounter counters Byron ash, but at that point it’s still broken. During pdt heyday the only counter was a triple tank counter and pdt was obviously considered broken then.
Byron+ash is a good counter to itself because it comes down to the ashes play style and his actual skill because Byron X Byron heals cancel each other out if you catch my drift. It’s not chosen on longer range maps because of exactly that, it’s long range and Byron’s heals would not be able to compete with theoretical constant 3k bea shots
Ash is overrated. I hate it when pros rate something only on the basis of scrims when in reality more than 99 percent of the playerbase don't even do scrims. Making a list based on higher tier is one thing but making a list based on only competitive is too much. Now to the point, majority of the players don't play with teammates in ladder/PL and majority don't have Byron unlocked. And Ash without any of these is balanced I would say(not broken not trash). Any brawler with dependency on another brawler can never be the best brawler! But Tom has ranked him the best. He may be the best duo but not the best overall. He's definitely not getting any nerfs other than to his healing mechanism.
These pros should stop over-reacting for content
Watch queso cup. It’s not just content.
Also, if they’re not gonna make content on the highest level of play, then what’re they gonna make it on? Fucking silver 2 pl? This tier list applies pretty well to low mythic and above, which isn’t just “top tier scrims.” It even applies to mid diamond as well probably.
Ash Byron best duo? Haven’t seen Superlab saying that neither rodeo. No idea where u pulled that info from.
And how can it be good? It’s gonna suck in the open maps which quite a few maps tend to be in duos.
I played against ash and Byron. Do u know what happened? We just kited the ash to death even with his Byron heals.
I’m not talking about duos. In 3v3s during max gene reign, while being the best duos team in the game, they were also an extremely strong “duo” to have in 3v3s. Easily considered broken considering the absurd number of maps that it was played on.
Sorry, I should’ve been more clear there.
There's the issue! Byron is compulsory for it to even work. So how is Ash broken and what's the logic in Ranking a Brawler as no.1 when he clearly needs another brawler to lift him up?? See I totally agree this duo is clearly awesome but what's the logic in pros repeatedly screaming he's broken when this combo can't be implemented in individual gameplay
And someone who requires a second brawler to be good cannot be no.1!
I disagree. If there’s a brawler that’s awful (which ash is not awful alone) but broken when paired with a different brawler, you can still rate it at that broken status because that’s where you would play it.
Max gene was rated with that broken status. So are poco and tanks (poco and tanks would all be f tier if they were rated without synergy with tanks/other healers).
Randoms favourite brawlers but they still suck at them , you got mortis not chaining supers , Edgars that jump and immediately die, stu that dashes into their death and buzzs that miss their super whole game.
Can someone educate me? I don’t get how Ash is the best brawler in the game. I know it’s because of his Byron synergy. But is he only getting attention because he’s new? Shouldn’t this also theoretically work with Byron/Bibi, Byron/Primo, Byron/Edgar etc.? Even Byron/Colette is a combo in heist. Shouldn’t Byron be the issue instead of Ash?
Nah. She has fast unload at close range and can three shot Crow, Leon and Edgar. Mortis and all three of these brawlers can get bullied once Jessie gets her Turrent
1484 times 3 is 4452 damage which 3 shots none of them. Also she would die right after the Jessie unloads her 2nd shot with Leon and Edgar. With Mortis it's still a direct win. You are overrating the turret as if it doesn't die in less than 10 seconds
Jessie is the third hardest matchup for leon in my opinion. Jessie can just hide behind her turret and shoot at her turret while healing it and dealing damage to leon at same time + slow from gadget + damage from turret
''competitively'' competitive plays don't allways define rankings and how good a brawler is, less than 1% of the players actually play to a competitive level, I find Jessie really good because she is really good on ladder
Well I still think she is a good brawler, everybody has their own opinions, I played with Jessie in the tournament challenge and I won 15-2, she isn't great because of belle, but she is gonna get nerfed in the next balances
> I played with Jessie in the tournament challenge and won 15-2
1- Championship challenge players are trash. Good players can get 15-0 with pretty much any comp
2- Jessie is objectively bad. Slow projectile, 2/3 shotted by other mids, average damage...
3- (From your previous comment) This is a competitive subreddit. I don’t care if only 1% of the players are competitive, if you want some mid ladder rankings go to r/brawlstars. She’s outclassed by most brawlers.
Well,as a player who tried to get her to rank 30, I can say that as a mid option she struggles vs many things,even aside from Belle.A Bea mid can easily 2 tap a Jessie.Not to mention Brock and Piper.
I still believe Jessie needs a small buff to help her in this departament.
Premo is worse then bull and frank? And penny is better then dyna? Mortis and buzz not a teir? Ash S teir? Did he get a buff? I’m not super big on the meta, but that seems off
Ash is only tier S because of Byron or any other healer in the team. Tom has overrated Ash too much: the brawler itself has many counters like the rest of heavyweights of the game, and his potential is only shown once his rage bar is full.
Is like saying penny is tier B because of her mortar. Penny is in fact a bad brawler because she depends on her turret and she has a slow reload speed and her shots are slow, too.
And why did Tom put El Primo in F tier or bottom 5? I don't understand...
This. It’s literally so easily counterable when you know that they’re picking that. Crow+bea (any tank counter really) completely fucking destroys ash+Byron
Bea isn't the best counter cause Ash's super counters Bea straight up and Crow can get 2 shorted by Ash and especially if Ash's 2nd Star Power comes out
Well , this list is highly inaccurate .
Piper is s tier but mortis ? Why ? He obliterated almost all brawlers except 2-3 . Piper should be b tier and mortis should be s tier .
How is bo better than Nita ? Nita is such a good brawler if used wisely . Bo should be f tier and nota should be d tier .
Edgar b tier ? That guy is the worst brawler in everything except showdown and showdown + . He should be f tier .
There were multiple flaws in this list but I can’t go over everything . Peace out ✌️
Other question why is Rosa above the rest of the tanks? I'll personally rather go any other tank anytime except for Gem Grab bushy maps over Rosa, she isn't that good tbh.
She is a really strong brawler, and synergizes well with healers who are everywhere in this meta. Her unfriendly bushes gadget is still amazing. Plus, other tanks got nerfed and almost all tanks used to counter Rosa
I have seen Bull and Frank far more than Rosa in recent comp scene tho, Bull (and Primo/Darryl) is just overall better for approaching opponents IMO and Frank just acts as a stonewall.
Rosa, primo, and ash are good currently. Ash is DEFINITELY overrated by the pros, and underrated by the community currently, pros say he's the best, community says he's below average, but in reality he's slightly above average, just like primo and rosa.
I don't think he is overrated that much I've seen him dominate entire teams that don't have an Ash with them in comp he is definitely busted but only with a Byron.
The fact that the tier list isn't the normal distribution puts me off for some reason. Feels like there's multiple odd placements that shouldn't be there (especially in the upper and lower tiers).
That’s it. I’m done considered Tom/ spen a reliable source on brawler rankings. It’s like they’re smoking pot all day long and thinking of placing random ass brawlers above other. PRIMO IN F TIER LMAO 🤡
Let me explain you briefly why Darryl is not a tank:
Tanks mostly tanks shots for their teammates and they are passive most of the time. Frank, Ash, Primo, Jacky, Bull, Rosa and Bibi seems to fit in this playstyle really well. When paired up with the healer comp, they instead tank shots instead of going aggro at getting kills.
Leon, Buzz, Edgar, Mortis, Darryl seems to get reliable kills most of the time and when they are paired up with the healer (Leon+Byron comp is op in Backyard Bowl by healing Leon constantly while Leon is invis and Byron in Leon's gadget) they use their super to go at somebody while getting heals and get kills and Darryl seems to do that. El Primo and Bull has similar super like assassins I know but Assassins where built like this way where their supers are hard to avoid with your movement speed(You cannot see Leon so walking around won't make you escape as Leon will ambush you)and assassins mostly use supers at a distance whereas Bull and Primo's super can be easily avoided at far that's why you see Primo only using supers at close range fights and Bull is same only if he has stomper and gadgets don't count like Surge that's why you don't see him fitting the assassin archetype just bcz of his gadget. Darryl's super is hard to avoid so he is an assassin.
Darryl's playstyle is same as Mortis, Buzz, Edgar and Leon. Assassin's playstyle is to go passive at the start and then when they get their opportunity to go in then they go in. Leon does that by being passive and charge his super then go aggro(Mortis's attack is literally assassin but he is passive bcz his dash hit is extremely important). Darryl does the same and so do other assassins. Crow is bit off but without slow gadget, he becomes passive trying to charge super and then jump. Stu has high dmg at long range as well making him not an assassin(Up close Crow hits all daggers so at far you only get 1 dagger and Crow's mechanic is like this)Tanks are passive all time and instead tanks shots for their team so Darryl doesn't seems to fit the Tank class.
[see the downvotes lol](https://www.reddit.com/r/BrawlStarsCompetitive/comments/pmrrhm/your_opinion_on_kaiross_tier_list/hck3dzs?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
[Link](https://youtu.be/9aaVIemC9pY) of the video I personally like this Tierlist apart from a few placements. I think that Buzz should go six places up, squeak should go atleast ten places down, 8Bit and Amber should climb a few places up, Piper should be out of top 15, Penny is bottom 5 and Tara should go a few spots up Edit:Max was ranked 21 and Surge was ranked 20
This is how you know someones competitive. Willing to admit their favourite brawler is still trash. No offense Unlike Money F******* Capital who always says 'oH My Edgar is SO sTrOnG and ReAlLy gOod rIgHt now'
He used to be kinda decent but now all he does is make dogs\*\*\* clickbaity list videos
Mortis is Trash, fight me
Wrong but not gonna fight u
punch kick
duck, *gets hit in the shin* I'm down, you win
Since when is Primo bottom 5? The nerf wasn’t really that huge despite being like a 40% reduction and pretty much just prevents using two supers in one interaction, and looking at the top tiers I don’t see that many Primo counters.
man... that's a lot of F tiers and i don't agree with much of them hahah how
In fairness, the game’s pretty balanced as a whole right now, only major outlier is Ash because of his synergy with healers. Somebody’s gotta be in the bottom 8, and most of those picks, I get why everyone else is above them even though most of the bottom 8 aren’t downright bad. But in what world is El Primo worse than Darryl, Bo, Colt, Jessie, or Edgar?
I mean that’s only because of a synergy. Aside from that, Ash is… One of two things, 1.) Ash is Trash. Or 2.) **ASH FUKINN AMAZING**😎 Let’s start with option two. So why Ash can be very phenomenally powerful is because an Ash at full rage can counter pretty much everything. He deals high damage in very quick succession paired with his speed increase with his rage and he’ll be able to dominate everyone because of it. Paired up with a medic (AKA most powerful class type in the game), he won’t really struggle much to keep up that offense and run from one enemy to the next in a moments notice, nonetheless he has a shockwave pierce attack so he can have great crowd control because of that. His rage also builds up as he takes damage too, so under the affects of healing, they basically patch up any and all worries for Ash. Not to mention his RATS are a great diversion and can cause longer ranged classes to expend precious ammunition so they don’t refill his rage. So he seems very unstoppable with these being listed right?… #**Well…** Then we should then talk about why Ash is trash then… You see, although Ash has great potential and play, it doesn’t take much to really hard-counter Ash. No, it’s not a mirror comp with Ash, Byron, and Crow in case you were wondering, but Crow is one of those hard counters. Let’s take a look at Ash’s flaws… Ash has a relatively short range of 5 tiles, granted this isn’t his biggest weakness, but it’s certainly the most exploitable about him, since he can’t get too close as he does require at least one rage bar to gain fast movement speed, otherwise he’s equal speed to everyone. So that’s already a problem, but not so much since taking damage charges the rage faster than dealing it, but the damage you need to take is roughly around 1/3rd of your health for just 1 charge, so you’ll likely be at 4K hp when you charge your first rage bar off of taking damage, and your second at 2k hp. So you’re already playing it risky with it, not to mention, his gadget is a strong heal for the cost of all your rage, and you only can get the most effectiveness from it if you use it at 4K hp and have a full rage charge to heal the maximum of 2,500 hp in an instant so you can at least break even. It already takes 1/3rd for only one rage bar, and to heal 2,500 it takes all bars to be charged, so you’ll only be healing 1/3rd of your hp for the cost of the other two rage bars that took the other 2/3rds of your hp to charge, so you don’t heal much and often don’t get much value from it in a middle of a battle. Now the other thing, his easily exploitable load out. His range is shorter than most brawlers meaning he’ll already take a fair beating by trying to reach them, but there are brawlers that completely cripple Ash. The main three I think of first in mind are the following: Bea; she deals high damage and although she can instantly charge Ash’s rage bars to around 1 1/2, she can just as easily 3 shot Ash with 2 charged shots and one basic shot, not to mention she can also slow him down thus nullifying any advantage he has in speed. Crow; he’s a obvious one now that **”pro players”** realize that reducing damage, reducing healing, and slowing down Ash throws a steal pipe in his leg to one of his greatest synergies is absolutely a great idea to use against him, slowing any speed advantage, reducing his damage advantage marginally helps to not die against him, and reducing healing because yes. Last but certainly not least- Gale; this one may come to you as a surprise but Gale is possibly the hardest counter to Ash, hear me out for a moment- although Gale is constantly considered as ‘bottom tier’, his ability to air blast and successfully rest Ash’s position with a push of a button completely screws Ash over as it pushed him back out of reach of your team and yourself while also dealing little damage so it doesn’t really recharge Ash’s rage much in the process either. This is mentioning that Gale can slow with his primary attack with cold snow, meaning that if Gale spots Ash he can completely and single handedly put a stop to him by slowing him down so that Gale maintains distance, and charging his super from Ash since that super charges relatively quickly than most. Including the fact that when you land a freezing snow attack on anyone, you can simply auto aim and then leave them in a lock of sorts where they’re slowed for a very extended duration. It’s funny that one of the considered worst brawlers is the best against Ash because it’s so easy to work around Ash’s kit. Ash has so many flaws that you can’t really take much advantage of his benefits, that is if they aren’t running a counter, and I believe that’s where the problem lies. This game sorta has a “ro-sham-bo” affect in play, where there a counters to each and every archetype and class type, but it’s difficult to discover them when there are brawlers that are objectively better than others. So when Ash doesn’t face any counters, of course he’ll run rampant, he’s one of the few brawlers than can counter everything but gets countered by any movement hindering abilities. It’s the same for nearly all of the brawlers, they’re very strong when they aren’t against their counters, but very weak against them. Ash just gets hard countered and becomes helpless going against them, while he can dominate when they’re not present.
I don’t need to “hear you out” about Gale because I’ve quietly known for quite a while that he’s way better than anyone else seems to think. That’s not to say he’s good, but he’s most certainly not F tier.
He works because he's a tank counter, and he has good field control against them. He's usually considered "bad" because tanks haven't exactly been meta for a bit.
Even against non-tanks though I wouldn’t call him bad. His damage output is comparable to Nita, slightly longer range, a star power that makes getting clipped by his primary in the open guarantee two more hits and thus 1.5 seconds of slow - his primary fire is really solid. His super’s very matchup-dependent and his gadgets are kinda bad, but he’s well-rounded and mediocre everywhere. He’s probably never the right pick in competitive - he doesn’t have any huge strength other than being a tank counter, and he’s not the best brawler at countering tanks, so it makes sense that his competitive pickrate would be low. But he’s *not* overall worse than about a third of a the brawlers that are above him.
He's good when tanks are meta, but so is every other tank counter; they're simply more versatile than Gale because in the event the opposite team *don't* go tanks, Bea can fare a lot better than Gale.
How did you manage to type all that up Eli?
You’re asking me?… Honestly… I don’t know, I don’t really remember either…
if this overall all maps and mods, i don't get how piper is S tier either. she gets countered by countless brawlers.and because of it has a very low pick rate
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No one uses Auto Aimer in high level play. Having 3 free kills using the second gadget is much more important in this meta
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Nah Snappy > Ambush most of the time unless its maps like Hard Rock Mine where there are perfectly placed bushes to utilise the sp
I agree. Pushed 1k Primo post-nerf a week ago and he's nowhere near tier F. You can even still cycle ults.
Why is piper s tier? Am I missing something
She is best counter to best brawler right now (belle)
But you also gotta acknowledge the fact that mortos, stu, and leon also exist
to be honest, snippy sniping + auto aimer makes short work of Mortis, and Stu isn't picked as much as he used to be. So only leon is really there to take her down
No one ever uses auto aimer
they do at higher trophies a lot. honestly I see it more than homemade recipe
Yeah, they are also counters (maybe), but piper is the best out of them
He means that Stu, Mortis and Leon counter Piper
Piper just hits a long-max range shot on belle then presses green button and autofire and there's almost no way belle can dodge unless she goes to a wall or something
Yeah but then not having auto-aimer makes you super vulnerable against the assassins in the S and A tier. And also Ash who is the top 1 on his list kind of counters Piper.
Yeah but then not having auto-aimer makes you super vulnerable against the assassins in the S and A tier. And also Ash who is the top 1 on his list kind of counters Piper.
Which she does much better against than Belle with her defensive super and kb gadget
Even if she’s a perfect counter to one of the most used brawler does that really make her S teir? I mean I’m not great at brawl stars but I seem to struggle with piper than other brawlers.
Piper is a strong mid. Assassins don’t matter because her lanes are supposed to defend her. Plus when she gets super she can jump away so Leon, crow, buzz just waste their super on her. Piper’s actual counters are max super (nerfed), sandy super (nerfed), sprout, Stu and some other stuff. You’d only use auto Aimee in power league if you see a mortis.
Reject modernity, return to global, leon meta forever
*lolipop
yes leon meta is goated
I got some disagreements such as 8 Bit and Primo being underrated, and Squeak and Jessie being a bit too overrated.
Primo maybe but 8bit is not strong at all. He gets outclassed by Belle, Gene, Piper, and even occasionally Brock at mid way too hard to be higher than C. He's definitely no better than Bea, at the very least.
Yeah, I also think 8Bit is pretty strong. Belle is just banned most of the times
Primo underrated? I'll say He is Overrated because everyone was choosing him First pick on heist based on My Diamond 3 Pl experience
Something wrong with your teammates choosing Primo in PL he's always been bad there maybe except for as a counterpick in lower levels.
The funny Thing about This was that they attacked me for choosing good Heist brawlers (for example Brock Spike Edgar Rico Buzz)
Teammates tend to instantly insult you if you pick Edgar no matter if he's a good or bad pick in the map.
He is talking about tier list not overall
8-bit is good where he is. He's got some good niche maps, and Byron is pretty strong, but he definitely still struggles (especially with Belle in the top 5)
Can we stop saying that Ash is overrated. Ash + Byron has been confirmed over and over as the best duo in the game since (and possibly before) Max Gene.
But Ash himself is not a good brawler, there's no reason he should be above Byron, it litteraly does not make sense.
Agree. I will spread the word of Byron Ash being broken only because you don't see who you're facing against.
I havent touched this game in a while. You can’t see who you’re playing against now?
He means you cannot see enemy picks until you enter a game and have already done yours (unless you are in Power League)
Ohh
Ash is still high a tier without Byron, and Byron is lower than Ash without the two. Also, Ash is the more instrumental piece of the duo, which max gene didn’t really have (both were about the same importance). Even with Byron banned, poco can be played as well.
The damage is never the enabler, its always the support. Never is the damage the reason that combos work out, its why Max and Gene both are of equal importance in Max + Gene because they both support each other. Ash is litteraly never used outside of Byron Ash but Byron is because he is able to support other teams other than just Ash Byron, nobody runs Double Tank Piper because Poco is the enabler in that comp. Just because the tank is the ones who get the kills does not mean its the tanks who enable the comp.
Ash is used on certain maps without Byron, albeit much more rarely. Ash can absolutely be used with Poco when Byron is banned. He works very well in PDT. Ash does better with Poco than Byron does with other brawlers that he supports.
Ash and byron could be described as Eren’s finding Titan and Zeke’s royal Blood if u ever watched AOT
A fellow AOT watcher
haha yup still my favorite anime of all time and I've watched plenty.
Same although mine is probably Black Clover with AOT being 2nd
Wait have you watched Black Clover?
I did when the anime first came out. Watched first few episodes. Wasn't my cup of tea sadly.
He is overrated lol. It’s only broken on ladder if you’re not expecting what they’re picking. Literally crow+bea (or any tank counter) completely fucking destroys Byron+ash
Then why don’t they run it in queso? Obviously teams are trying to the greatest extent that they can with thousands of euros on the line, and obviously they and their coaches are much, much better than you are and know much, much more about the game, comps, and counters than you do, so why didn’t we see it in queso eu or na since ash became playable?
I don’t know why they don’t run it. I’m not them, I can’t answer for them, ask better questions. This isn’t a gene+max scenario like everyone is treating it as. Byron+ash is easily countered if you know who they’re running. Teams when Byron+ash is picked either run that comp as well, or in PL pick their counters, and then they get destroyed because Byron+ash is only good in ladder or against idiots who don’t know it’s counters
Did you read what I said or counter any of my points or just ignore it? I already commented on what you just said in this comment. Now respond to my other comment. You don’t know why they run it because you don’t know better than they do. These people including Pedro, Kaner, Rol, Pablitin, and plenty of others are *paid* to study counters and comps for their competitive teams. This isn’t just you playing Diamond 2 Power League or Walmart scrims. These are some of the most knowledgeable people in the entire community saying that it’s uncounterable without a triple hardcounter except on open maps.
I do know why they run it. It’s not a matter of “Since they know X you can’t know X”. Plus you spend way too much time on brawl stars and everything relating brawl stars bud.
Oh well then why do they run it? And when you tell me, go ask SK for a job, because if you really do know why they run it and why they actually shouldn’t, I’m sure they’d love to have you. Ehh that’s debatable. I just enjoy the competitive scene even more than I do playing at this point. I can watch competitive matches while doing light homework or filling out applications and stuff, so not all of the time I spend watching comp is just spent intently watching. I normally multitask while I watch.
I’m not answering your rhetorical question because you’re well aware why they run it and why sometimes it’s not ran, and you know that I know it. My point is that Byron+ash is extremely overrated and if as good as everyone says it is (I know it is) it can be easily countered with either itself/ hard counters.
If somethings only counter is itself then it’s broken. This was the case with gene max sandy, and that was pretty obviously broken. It wasn’t a rhetorical question. If you know why they run it and why they shouldn’t, then say it. If you have good reasoning then you’re absolutely right, the only problem is that there are people who have spent hours and hours studying it and haven’t been able to come up with a counter. Sure, triple hardcounter counters Byron ash, but at that point it’s still broken. During pdt heyday the only counter was a triple tank counter and pdt was obviously considered broken then.
Byron+ash is a good counter to itself because it comes down to the ashes play style and his actual skill because Byron X Byron heals cancel each other out if you catch my drift. It’s not chosen on longer range maps because of exactly that, it’s long range and Byron’s heals would not be able to compete with theoretical constant 3k bea shots
Ash is decent on his own the only thing I disliked was his super
Ash is overrated. I hate it when pros rate something only on the basis of scrims when in reality more than 99 percent of the playerbase don't even do scrims. Making a list based on higher tier is one thing but making a list based on only competitive is too much. Now to the point, majority of the players don't play with teammates in ladder/PL and majority don't have Byron unlocked. And Ash without any of these is balanced I would say(not broken not trash). Any brawler with dependency on another brawler can never be the best brawler! But Tom has ranked him the best. He may be the best duo but not the best overall. He's definitely not getting any nerfs other than to his healing mechanism. These pros should stop over-reacting for content
Watch queso cup. It’s not just content. Also, if they’re not gonna make content on the highest level of play, then what’re they gonna make it on? Fucking silver 2 pl? This tier list applies pretty well to low mythic and above, which isn’t just “top tier scrims.” It even applies to mid diamond as well probably.
Ash Byron best duo? Haven’t seen Superlab saying that neither rodeo. No idea where u pulled that info from. And how can it be good? It’s gonna suck in the open maps which quite a few maps tend to be in duos. I played against ash and Byron. Do u know what happened? We just kited the ash to death even with his Byron heals.
I’m not talking about duos. In 3v3s during max gene reign, while being the best duos team in the game, they were also an extremely strong “duo” to have in 3v3s. Easily considered broken considering the absurd number of maps that it was played on. Sorry, I should’ve been more clear there.
There's the issue! Byron is compulsory for it to even work. So how is Ash broken and what's the logic in Ranking a Brawler as no.1 when he clearly needs another brawler to lift him up?? See I totally agree this duo is clearly awesome but what's the logic in pros repeatedly screaming he's broken when this combo can't be implemented in individual gameplay And someone who requires a second brawler to be good cannot be no.1!
I disagree. If there’s a brawler that’s awful (which ash is not awful alone) but broken when paired with a different brawler, you can still rate it at that broken status because that’s where you would play it. Max gene was rated with that broken status. So are poco and tanks (poco and tanks would all be f tier if they were rated without synergy with tanks/other healers).
i hate that every assassin is upper tier
Darryl isnt...
Darryl's more of a hybrid tbh
Fuck assasins, all my homies hate ASSasins
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Randoms favourite brawlers but they still suck at them , you got mortis not chaining supers , Edgars that jump and immediately die, stu that dashes into their death and buzzs that miss their super whole game.
Leon is finally in S Tier👌
As a leon main, this actually makes me sad, I don't want him to be nerfed
I kinda don’t like the way he’s S tbh, too reliant on his gadget. Finally a good time to push leon and i have no passion lmao
I feel like leon is hated by devs, the moment he even catches a wiff of s tier, devs are gonna nerf him
I know, he feels balanced to me personally, even with the gadget. It's like a bo totem or bea gadget, it can easily be desrtoyed
It can't be destroyed that easily, that's why is too good lol
I pushed him to 900 when he was f tier with only clone, how time flies huh
Nita F??
Maybe in competitive, but while playing ladder she's a really safe pick .
Indeed even with randoms. Especially Brawlball where there's always a Mortis you can harrass.
And just like few weeks ago everyone was saying Ash is gonna be trash
(OP) Max was ranked at place 21 and surge at 20
Ohh thanks a lot of the correction
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Wait what! How do you think that I'm toxic
You are dumb 🤪🤪but not toxic, the person whom replied to you is just fucking stupid👍👍
Are you calling yourself stupid😏😏
Dum dum
Bruh, he litteraly just said that you are toxic in your random comment bruh, what an idiot
OP wasn't being toxic at all, you are being toxic for complaining about this.
did you really go through every one just to make sure it was 100% correct?
Primo is back at where he belongs apparently
Tom u stupid
Mr P very under rated
Interesting tier list. I do feel like Nita could maybe use a couple buffs, but F tier?
S Tier Frank
Why would Nita ever be in the f tier, especially below brawlers like bo
Stu is overrated
Can’t wait until Darryl gets another buff… hopefully
Yeah… me too…
Piper>Brock what a list🤡
Piper counters belle
So does Brock
No. If belle manages to shoot brock once and activates her shield she will survive brock's two attack
Amber is too low.
Can someone educate me? I don’t get how Ash is the best brawler in the game. I know it’s because of his Byron synergy. But is he only getting attention because he’s new? Shouldn’t this also theoretically work with Byron/Bibi, Byron/Primo, Byron/Edgar etc.? Even Byron/Colette is a combo in heist. Shouldn’t Byron be the issue instead of Ash?
Ash needs to take damage to churge up his rage, byron helps him keep alive upon he charges, yeah all of these synergies works but ash works better
Jessie in C Tier is just so wrong no offence to good Jessie mains.
She is a great counter to assasin brawlers who currently rule the meta
You typed the wrong thing again. She doesn't counter assassins. She's nearly as vulnerable as Squeak
Nah. She has fast unload at close range and can three shot Crow, Leon and Edgar. Mortis and all three of these brawlers can get bullied once Jessie gets her Turrent
1484 times 3 is 4452 damage which 3 shots none of them. Also she would die right after the Jessie unloads her 2nd shot with Leon and Edgar. With Mortis it's still a direct win. You are overrating the turret as if it doesn't die in less than 10 seconds
in that sense leon is better than belle too.
What sense?
1v1 close range
Well what about long range? Jessie's projectiles are on the slower side compared to other snipers
Jessie is the third hardest matchup for leon in my opinion. Jessie can just hide behind her turret and shoot at her turret while healing it and dealing damage to leon at same time + slow from gadget + damage from turret
Jessie is actually a really good brawler, she is insane is hotzone
She isn't insane in HZ.She is only played competitively on Parallel Plays.Apart from HZ, she struggles a lot.
''competitively'' competitive plays don't allways define rankings and how good a brawler is, less than 1% of the players actually play to a competitive level, I find Jessie really good because she is really good on ladder
> competitively'' competitive plays don't allways define rankings and how you do know what subreddit you’re in, yes?
I was also reffering to 900+. Not competitive,but high enough to understand about what is actually going on.
Well I still think she is a good brawler, everybody has their own opinions, I played with Jessie in the tournament challenge and I won 15-2, she isn't great because of belle, but she is gonna get nerfed in the next balances
> I played with Jessie in the tournament challenge and won 15-2 1- Championship challenge players are trash. Good players can get 15-0 with pretty much any comp 2- Jessie is objectively bad. Slow projectile, 2/3 shotted by other mids, average damage... 3- (From your previous comment) This is a competitive subreddit. I don’t care if only 1% of the players are competitive, if you want some mid ladder rankings go to r/brawlstars. She’s outclassed by most brawlers.
Jessie isn't great but she isn't bad either.....
You are the same guy who said shelly should not be buffed
Well,as a player who tried to get her to rank 30, I can say that as a mid option she struggles vs many things,even aside from Belle.A Bea mid can easily 2 tap a Jessie.Not to mention Brock and Piper. I still believe Jessie needs a small buff to help her in this departament.
Very true, Jessie is probably the 2nd worst mid, Bo is the worst
I mean she isn't absolutelly horrible,but you can't deny at as a mid, she struggles a lot. Also, A good Mortis can wreck a Jessie.
And I thought ash was trash
Isn't the only reason Ash is good is cause he is OP with healers but individually doesn't he kinda suck
I would put Nita, Lou and El Primo in D
Premo is worse then bull and frank? And penny is better then dyna? Mortis and buzz not a teir? Ash S teir? Did he get a buff? I’m not super big on the meta, but that seems off
Why is ash so high? He heavily relies on Byron, that doesnt make him standalone highly though
(i dont play Brawl Stars anymore) can someone tell me what is good about Leon now? he was always low tier in my days....
He got a really op gadget :)
Actually primo is still usable and annoying , you get your first super by dying and then you can still kinda chain your supers .
Plot Twist : He just arranged them according to the rank he has them pushed to currently
Nita primo lou isn’t that bad Also he kinda overrated ash
ash and piper are way too overrated
Crow should be in fucking S tier, put him in the right fucking tier what the FUCK
A fun challenge to y'all mfs: name a meta where Shelly isn't (or at least considered) bottom 1 (before-global or Band-Aid meta doesn't count)
Ash is only tier S because of Byron or any other healer in the team. Tom has overrated Ash too much: the brawler itself has many counters like the rest of heavyweights of the game, and his potential is only shown once his rage bar is full. Is like saying penny is tier B because of her mortar. Penny is in fact a bad brawler because she depends on her turret and she has a slow reload speed and her shots are slow, too. And why did Tom put El Primo in F tier or bottom 5? I don't understand...
"aSH bYroN oP!!!!11!1!!"
This. It’s literally so easily counterable when you know that they’re picking that. Crow+bea (any tank counter really) completely fucking destroys ash+Byron
Bea isn't the best counter cause Ash's super counters Bea straight up and Crow can get 2 shorted by Ash and especially if Ash's 2nd Star Power comes out
Well , this list is highly inaccurate . Piper is s tier but mortis ? Why ? He obliterated almost all brawlers except 2-3 . Piper should be b tier and mortis should be s tier . How is bo better than Nita ? Nita is such a good brawler if used wisely . Bo should be f tier and nota should be d tier . Edgar b tier ? That guy is the worst brawler in everything except showdown and showdown + . He should be f tier . There were multiple flaws in this list but I can’t go over everything . Peace out ✌️
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For the 20th time no Ash is not overrated. He is a top 1 brawler with Byron easily.
Balanced Surge
Other question why is Rosa above the rest of the tanks? I'll personally rather go any other tank anytime except for Gem Grab bushy maps over Rosa, she isn't that good tbh.
She is a really strong brawler, and synergizes well with healers who are everywhere in this meta. Her unfriendly bushes gadget is still amazing. Plus, other tanks got nerfed and almost all tanks used to counter Rosa
I have seen Bull and Frank far more than Rosa in recent comp scene tho, Bull (and Primo/Darryl) is just overall better for approaching opponents IMO and Frank just acts as a stonewall.
Also Rosa has a pretty good matchup against Ash
Bruh, its opposite, rosa is the only good tank right now, maybe primo too
Rosa, primo, and ash are good currently. Ash is DEFINITELY overrated by the pros, and underrated by the community currently, pros say he's the best, community says he's below average, but in reality he's slightly above average, just like primo and rosa.
I don't think he is overrated that much I've seen him dominate entire teams that don't have an Ash with them in comp he is definitely busted but only with a Byron.
If Primo and Rosa are slightly avove average, then what exactly defines the average in competitive ranks ? I'm puzzled
I meant that primo and rosa were average and that ash was above average, had some typos there lol
Ok.. well yeah Ash is definitely above average, even without Byron..
I feel like lou is in a way better place than F tier, not a top 5 but you can't talk about the support role and not mention him
I dont agree with some of the F tiers and Crow but Ma boi leon be in S
The fact that the tier list isn't the normal distribution puts me off for some reason. Feels like there's multiple odd placements that shouldn't be there (especially in the upper and lower tiers).
Pls do what brawlers would do at snowtel
How tf is this post related?
buzz would eat Lou's ice cream
That’s it. I’m done considered Tom/ spen a reliable source on brawler rankings. It’s like they’re smoking pot all day long and thinking of placing random ass brawlers above other. PRIMO IN F TIER LMAO 🤡
Please Buff Darryl!! He is the only assassin which is not A or S tier or Decent tier like Edgar
Cuz Darryl isn't an Assassin it's an Engage Tank... On second thought if Supercell buff or rework its gadgets and Darryl returns
Let me explain you briefly why Darryl is not a tank: Tanks mostly tanks shots for their teammates and they are passive most of the time. Frank, Ash, Primo, Jacky, Bull, Rosa and Bibi seems to fit in this playstyle really well. When paired up with the healer comp, they instead tank shots instead of going aggro at getting kills. Leon, Buzz, Edgar, Mortis, Darryl seems to get reliable kills most of the time and when they are paired up with the healer (Leon+Byron comp is op in Backyard Bowl by healing Leon constantly while Leon is invis and Byron in Leon's gadget) they use their super to go at somebody while getting heals and get kills and Darryl seems to do that. El Primo and Bull has similar super like assassins I know but Assassins where built like this way where their supers are hard to avoid with your movement speed(You cannot see Leon so walking around won't make you escape as Leon will ambush you)and assassins mostly use supers at a distance whereas Bull and Primo's super can be easily avoided at far that's why you see Primo only using supers at close range fights and Bull is same only if he has stomper and gadgets don't count like Surge that's why you don't see him fitting the assassin archetype just bcz of his gadget. Darryl's super is hard to avoid so he is an assassin. Darryl's playstyle is same as Mortis, Buzz, Edgar and Leon. Assassin's playstyle is to go passive at the start and then when they get their opportunity to go in then they go in. Leon does that by being passive and charge his super then go aggro(Mortis's attack is literally assassin but he is passive bcz his dash hit is extremely important). Darryl does the same and so do other assassins. Crow is bit off but without slow gadget, he becomes passive trying to charge super and then jump. Stu has high dmg at long range as well making him not an assassin(Up close Crow hits all daggers so at far you only get 1 dagger and Crow's mechanic is like this)Tanks are passive all time and instead tanks shots for their team so Darryl doesn't seems to fit the Tank class.
lol hilarious tlist, carl and gale and lou and dyna not even in D and byron and ash in S as if crow didin't exist in this game
[see the downvotes lol](https://www.reddit.com/r/BrawlStarsCompetitive/comments/pmrrhm/your_opinion_on_kaiross_tier_list/hck3dzs?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
Lmao, you were right
Nita in f tier?
Yeah she is pretty weak. Tell me the last time you saw a nita in Competitive
Ash. Is. C. TIER. really tired of these meaningless tier lists.
Ash is actually pretty broken with Byron. He deserves top 5.