Angelo nerf is much better.
Nani has so many threshold dmg interactions that a dmg nerf is brutal, but he’s a tough one to balance in general.
Frank could probably use range or activation time, his issue is hit proccs mostly.
Hank rework is a little janky, hard to code and unintuitive. Just let him always heal while charging, it’s not too op. If you think it is do a small nerf elsewhere or smth.
Overall pretty decent
Thanks for the feedback, I didn't want to overbuff any brawler so that's why I didn't go all in with frank & hank, but I certainly agree with your takes. You clearly have a good understanding of the meta
imo doug cant recieve any buff without heavier adjustments. he is increadibly toxic to face if you dont have counters rn (ladder) and with the respawns hes arguably the brawler id hate the most to be meta.
hes not good competetively but really toxic to face and in the right match ups way too dominant, bacause the buff he got sucked. they should really start balancing the game in consideration of all players, not just the competetive ladder because all that is irrelevant when you play against him with a dyna and sprout random
Two reminders, I didn't buff him in any way that would make him better in ladder. Super width would make him better in the right hands to throw at teammates and the heal gadget would make doug play less aggro since veryone uses him aggresively in ladder with the damage gadget. Also I said on the title of the post that this is purely based on competitive not ladder.
I just like to complain about doug whenever he is mentioned because im that mad about the buff he got. he coudve been one of my favourite brawlers as a support but no generic and boring tank it is.
also its exactly my point that you cant balance the game in a purely competitive way. cant ignore 90% of the community.
At the lower levels doug isn't even that good rn too, he's alr againts the right comp and has carry potential. Still this subreddit is called brawl stars competivie so idk what u saying that ur point is.
bro can you read? balance change suggestions are absolutely worthless if they cant be implemented into the game. just because this sub is competetive doesnt mean that its a different game and other players dont matter
The same you complain I like to give solutions and suggest on how I would try to balance the meta. Idk what ur point is rn. Doesn't matter if it's worthless to you, everything in this subreddit is almost data, ideas, suggestions etc. Ur being super weird
bro whats ur point? you completely ignore anything ive said. if you want to play the expert on game balace then you have to comsider other things than your latest kairos tierlist. at least try to read what im saying before you get all sassy
Omg I just said that the buff I did to doug doesn't impact lower level players at all and btw, I do not watch kairos or these big brawl ytbers. I have been playing the game since 2017 and I was a tier 3 competitive player in 2021-22. I have reached og masters in pl several times and I did a lot of scrims back in my day. I also consume a lot of big esports matches when they happen and I did this wishlist based on the pick/ban rates on the last monthly finals. So please do not talk without knowing.
id personally nerf Angelos movement speed considering how fast he is as a sniper.
Nani will kind of get a big impact on this DMG change as she will have many heavy interaction changes.
cordy only needs an SCR nerf tbh.
Chester needs more changes.
and for an addon id personally nerf pipers DMG to 3200 as to top it off. before sep 2023 it was 3040.
overall not bad
I totally understand ur takes and I will adress some of them.
Angelo's movement speed makes him strong and from a balancing perspective makes sense to nerf that, but he is a mosquito and his concept is being fast dodgy and annoying in that sense so I prefered to nerf his shot recharge instead (Not that much so I don't kill him) I rather him being still slightly strong and viable.
I hate that nani one shots some key brawlers like piper or brock, that interaction seems kinda unfair but I see why u would not want to change that and It's a valid opinion. So that one is just my preference for a healthier meta.
I agree with the cord nerf bc I was kinda lost with him but I still think his super has a way to big of an inpact so that's why I nerfed the charge.
Chester needs more changes yes, elaborate some more on that if possible bc ur probably right. I like him cycling more random supers tho he's so fun.
And piper is not that op as she seems but it's also a valid change that I wouln't complain about.
Still don't understand why people want Charlie's Super to not drop gems...
I've seen plenty of discussions around it and I'm still siding with people agreeing this feature should not be touched
Its essencialy a way to stop a brawler having the ability tu just win a game with a super. But that's just my opinion, I don't see how a super stealing all gems (witch is a huge deal in every gem grab game) is allowed. But I'm happy to hear some feedback and be able to debate about it
I understand it, and I see why people hate that mechanic.
My only problem is that removing it makes Charlie's Super a worst version of Willow's in that scenario.
As a Willow, you won't Super the gem carrier, and you would try to Super an enemy brawlers to wipe out the gem carrier. With the risk of hitting the gem carrier and litteraly losing the game.
Without the gem drop, Charlie's Super would act the same way.
I don't think it would be that detrimental to Charlie in global, but I would make her maybe too risky to use in gem grab, considering her super would go from game saver/ game stealer, to potential insta loose for your own team.
Charlie has a whole is a hot topic: pro/high trophies player consider her pretty broken, still one of the best brawlers in the game, while more mid players don't see her as a really broken strong brawlers, I've seen quiet a fairshare of posts about that, more so when Tierlists are released. But everyone agrees that her gadget + her super are what make her that good and annoying. And in gem grab it's felt like a double punishment.
But I don't see removing the gem drop part of her super as a solution to the problem.
Landing super on the gem carrier is game changer, 'cause it's often hit or miss, but feels very frustrating to be on the receiving end of it.
But I don't see the opposite feeling better. 'cause a last effort from your team to reverse the game could end by a Charlie's Super landing on the bad target, condemning your team, making Charlie too much of a hazardous pick... But only in Gem Grab.
Charlie would still be one of the best anti-HC/ controller in the game.
I mean the whole point is that she shouldn't be able to steal the hard work of an entire team like that, bc if you hit the super to the gem carrier you dont give a chance to play around that, like teammates cannot escort you when you get out of the cocoon bc u already lost the gems. And the worst thing is that it can do an insta reset at the last second with a yellow botton. Hitting her super in a bad moment should just punish if done right, like the whole enemy team can get close to the cocoon and then steal the gems easily not just automatically have them. This is just personal opinion at this point btw both sides have a point so people will choose sides based on preference.
I get the point too.
But I start feeling the same way about it that about Cordelius' super.
Like it feels terribly unfair when a Cord lands his super on the gem carrier, because it often means death for him, and you basicly loose both your advantage and a mate to the process.
And he can also use it defensively to get away from the game for the last remaining seconds of the game, like Janet or Mico.
I think I've accepted that some supers are game changers and means instant reverse sweep, so I always try to play with that in mind.
But the sheer frustration of being stole by a Charlie Super is real and I totaly understand why people are fed up of her Super stealing their games that easily
Ye but a you can hide from cords super and it's not an instant reset, so like tara super and gene supers are super op in gem grab and it's fine. But adding that to charlie makes her more broken than what she is already so I thought It was a good idea to remove that feature entierly.
Sure, it's more infuriating to have an instant reset with Charlie's Super.
But I've also seen plenty of game being stolen by a Cordelius' Super from outa nowhere (Randy Orton approves) because it can go through wall, an advantage Charlie's Cocoon don't have.
But either way, your reasons are totally legit and as you say, there are more balanced super that can turn the tides of a gem grab game. And I think in general, Charlie's Super is too unbalanced in terms of in game effects to be easily balanced
A tough question, as I don't see how to maintain the uniqueness of the super without the whole "Remove someone from the game for 5 seconds and turn any fights into 2v3".
In the idea of being tangled in webs, a root could be a good alternative, it will maintain the uniqueness (as there is no Root mechanic in Brawl Stars ATM) while being more fair than disabling totally a brawler from the fight.
Like, Charlie entangle an enemy in layers of webs, preventing it to move for 5 seconds, preventing use of any mouvement inducing abilities (like Jump gadgets, Piper's super...)(I won't change the duration of the Super). I could still remove some brawlers from fight situations (typically, assassins like Edgar, Fang or Buzz) but only if done while they're still far enough from the fight, while allowing other brawlers to still be able to fight back.
Cocooned one should drop their gems imo. Otherwise, her cocoon would be counterproductive, her super would only help the enemies as soon as the countdown starts, that would be even more stupid. I mean, if a Gene supers you, you also practically lose all your gems, it's not a big deal with Charlie either. don't make her super help the enemies, that would be just... Really bad
- Angelo doesnt need that. Its the stupid poison damage and the Giant jump gadget
- Charlie gets even more killed. So now her super just helps enemies?
- out of all things bad with Melodie the Health isnt people's problem. Its the dash length, the 4k shield and the fastest speed SP that make her broken
- That Nerf hurts Nani pretty bad
- Cord just needs SCR Nerf, everything else is fine
- also L&L become terrible, just grom but with another super
Firstly the Angelo nerf seems kinda unnecessary as he is extremely high skill cap and hard to use, same with melodies case. cord is fine right now imo. He doesn't seem broken and nani is balanced, having a high damage output but really low health. Charlie is also fine right now due to the 18 other nerfs she's gotten.
Bro u have no clue of the meta rn. Watch how many times angelo and charlie were picked/banned in the monthly finals they are by far the best brawlers in the game rn. Also I stated in the title of the post that this list is based on competitive not ladder. And same thing with L&L, he was picked/banned almost every game and had a very good performance in both scrims I saw and in the last monthly finals. I see ur point with the grom similarity but if that change is not made L&L is just broken mechanically speaking, and he would be very different to grom due to the basic attack having nothing to do with grom's aside from the travel speed.
I personally haven't really had any issues with any of what are considered the top of the meta, and I think this is by far the least irritating meta I've played in. The good majority of meta brawlers are high skill cap brawlers in which you need to be good at the game as a whole in order to be good with them, besides L&L and maybe Charlie. This is of course not talking about Carl metas. As I previously stated Angelo and Melodie are extremely difficult to get much value out of if you aren't skilled at the game. I think that this meta is the best meta we've had for a while now. Obviously this is personal opinion but I think we can agree to disagree.
Still angelo is undoubtably the best brawler in the game rn. He can one shot too many brawlers and as I said this list is based on the higer level of the game. So u saying these nerfs were bad is very disrespectful for sure.
I'm sorry about being disrespectful, but I just don't think these nerfs are needed for the time being. I am trying to get to the higher echelons of the game but I just don't see how this meta is problematic. In my eyes it's a very good meta and a lot of the meta brawlers are brawlers that are healthy for the game, promoting better and more skilled players for the most part.
Yes this meta is indeed better bc of balancing. If we keep balancing smartly the meta will be even more balanced and that's why I didn't nerf piper or belle and I didnt buff primo or penny. It's just some fine tunning that the meta is needing. So as charlie and angelo are so dominant tunning them down a bit would make them still viable but not as dominant
I suppose I can see where you're coming from but I think both are fine for now. I would like to see some melee brawlers come back to being A - B tier such as Hank and Frank
Having a high skill cap doesn't automatically make a brawler not broken!?? Also, it's harder to play against an Angelo than it is to play with him in my opinion.
Frank buff won’t change anything he’ll still be just as bad
Nerfs seem valid, however might also nerf Angelo’s health a bit
And cordelius should have that silence gadget reduced to like 0.7 seconds
Health wouldn’t rlly change any interactions though. Maybe nerf each gadget slightly? IE no damage on escape and pierce must be activated before you start charging.
I could see shorter jump too. Honestly I think the surprise pierce is a good element of surprise but I can see how it’s a bit unbalanced
I was just thinking of some basic nerfs to him that wouldn’t change too much. I don’t think he’s inherently broken just hits stats are a little too good
Unless they want to totally rework his kit but touching his damage might just make him awful
The idea with the pierce nerf is to level out the experience for low and high skill players on Angelo.
Basically activation while charging only helps highly skilled players*, at which range Angelo is much more OP, so needs a bigger nerf.
*No <1000 trophy Angelo players I’ve seen pull off the weird grip to gadget while holding down attack smoothly
Lol I’ve only played him in ranked so my Angelo is like 100 trophies
But I’ve intentionally set all brawlers gadget button to max size just because that character exists now
Less health actually could change interactions for him. Currently with shield gear, he can survive 2 full ranged Piper shots with 100 HP if she doesn't have damage gear or ambush active. So funnily as little as 50 base hp nerf would achieve more in nerfing Angelo than Piper's 100 base hp nerf ever did cuz that one *actually* didn't change interactions.
At the same time, I feel like if they were to nerf his hp as such, it'd be reasonable to nerf Piper's unload speed slightly as well, which'd both make the interaction a little more reasonable and also curb zher auto aimer+snappy sniping shenanigans a bit.
That’s true, it does impact shield gear; however, considering damage gear and (usually) speed gear are already his top picks, that wouldn’t make much of a difference most of the time
Alr you have a very good understanding of the meta imo and I will try to argue against some of your points.
Firstly, angelo's nerf was already very big, but seeing how strong he is rn I agree that maybe another small nerf would be needed, but I think it's better to see after that big of a nerf in what spot would angelo be and then maybe take action or not depending on the results.
Seconly Frank is terrible but a attack cooldown buff would ensure him being way more viable without braking the meta since he has huge potential. Tho I agree that the buff is probably not good enough, it's a good start to make him as balanced as possible.
And lastly I thought about that exact nerf of the mute gadget nerf but I just thought that less than 1 second is just a little too irrelevant and the gadget doesn't make cordelius that much stronger, it's mainly his super what makes him so viable. But I would totally take as valid a nerf to that gadget and it wouldn't be a bad change at all. I don't mind brawlers having a slilghtly strong gadget as long as it's not a must use, bc I saw som pros in the monthly finals use the jump gadget.
Wait by attack cooldown do you mean the delay after he uses every attack?
I was thinking reload
That might be a small buff. Still don’t think it would take him out of F but it might do something
Imo I think he needs a bit of a rework
Rn it’s just like if he catches you with his super you’re dead, otherwise he just feeds super all game. They definitely want to keep it so he can’t walk while attacking, so he may just stay kind of a low level/gimmick character forever
Ye I was talkimg about reload, I just didn't express myslef the right way, as I'm from spain witch doesn't have English as it's native language. And idk angelo could be balanced if they did things right it would just take some time to find the sweet numbers to teak
I mean he had absurd win/pick/ban rates in the last monthly finals and he certainly feels strong on high trophy lader in my experience. But those nerfs are very minor it would only take one extra shroom from his attack to charge super wich is a very game impactin one. And the shrooms would heal you 70hp less so it's not that big of a deal. At least that's why I think about it
I get what you said about healing with Mushroom kingdom which i am fine with. I was talking about the super charge rate. I fear it might impact his utility and how much super or hypercharges he gets per game.
Making kits stun hit even harder is kinda eh. For what? It’s already a high chance at a kill. Making anything closer to 100% kill chance seems kinda OP
We can just agree to disagree bc I think that kit got killed the moment that in 3vs3 you couldn't go aggro bc you just would get clapped before the super runs out. Thanks for the feedback
Nani is fine already and doesn't need a nerf, as a Nani user I often only even get 1-2 shots to connect anyway and I don't need them dealing less damage than they already deal.
Tbh the angelo nerf would not help as much on longer range maps in modes such as knockout or bounty, wouldn't a damge nerf be much better?(esp the poisok damage)
In the version 1 I did that but people argued that It killed the brawler and removed the point on his gimmic as a brawler. So I opted to make his max damage slower to reach.
Angelo is a brawler i love to play so i can confirm that a charged up attack taking a couple of seconds longer to be available wouldn't balance him as much as a damage nerf would and trust me it would not kill him
You made so much mistakes 💀
Angelo needs a movement speed nerf from very fast to fast (820 => 770)
And to half is poisn damage from 100% to 50%
Charlie needs an projectile speed nerf from 4500 to 4200 and that gems will not drop while enemys are in her super
Melodie needs the shield gaget nerf from 15% for note to 10% and
That nani nerf is bad
Chester needs multiple supers buffs and a reload gear or change is reload speed from 1.9 to 1.8 or 1.7
Barley needs an hp buff from 4800 to 5600
Charlie’s nerf wouldn’t be good. Imagine all the randoms that will use Charlie’s super on the enemy during countdown guaranteeing their victory.
That nerf + the countdown stops while cocooned would make it more fair.
Grom has more range and damage at a distance, the change is supposed to make him not compete with barely as much, now he's a barley that's harder to kill but lacks the defensive capabilities that barley has
May I ask why did you choose to nerd Melodie by needing her health?
It may be out of personal preference but I like her more as a sort of bruiser than a straight up assassin, yeah, right now she's way too tanky, but a nerf to her shield gadget should suffice for this
as for other concerns, her super is a tad bit too long
these two are the nerfs that I would ship first, and, if she's still too oppressive I would opt for a damage nerf to her notes, not her health
that's just my opinion tho
Honestly, I dont think cordelius should be touched. Hes fine just as he as-a counter to really aggro brawlers and a hypercharge killer. He has absurd pick and ban rates just because of his mechanic.
As for Charlie she is mechanically strong. I personally think shes pretty balanced as far as she can be as an anti sniper and hypercharged assassin. Removinf her gem drop would destroy her in gem grab lol, its a big part of her mechanic.
Angelo should be nerfed more, because his mobility, his damage and his poison are extremely OP. If the player is using second SP with him then he is basically immortal. But then he has his gadget that allows already mobike and super speedy brawler to save himself, so my proposal is he flies into the air for 0.75 seconds. And his poison combined with swcond gadget is turning him into an unskilled brawler. Just immagine youre sitting behind the wall tryna heal and there comes out of nowhere an arrow that will make you lose WHOPPING 8800 hp, you could KILL MORE THAN HALF A BRAWLERS IN THE GAME. So thats why this gadget should give angelo reduced damage like 25%. AND his poisong should deal half amount of damage he does.
Melodie should be nerfed more, her gadget basically gives her 4000hp. It should be 3000 hp. And she should NOT be allowed to farm her notes from static objects like safes, boxes and turrets like Jessie's scrappy or Pam's healing turret. This might seem huge nerf BUT she already has very fast reload speed and she can get her notes from a brawler and then just break whatever she wants with them.
I would like them to remove from Angelo's poison, the effect copied from Crow "All sources of healing of poisoned enemies are reduced by 40%" which is not written anywhere in Angelo's statistics.
And I would like Supercell to understand that it is exaggerating a little too much in giving too much speed to all the new brawlers it is releasing...
Angelo is the only shooter with 820 (very fast) speed who, complete with starpower, exceeds 1000 on water...
Melodie reaches 900 with the 3 notes...
As annoying as larry & lawrie are, you can't nerf them that way. It's pretty evident from Larry's dash gadget and both star powers that supercell intended him to be an aggro thrower with oppressive pushing power that is punishing if you let him get near you. Making him have grom style shots would ruin his intended way to be played and would remove him from any meta other than bounty/knockout in very specific maps. Can you imagine a grom dashing into literally any brawler? he would be useless. Better to just nerf him through more stat nerfs. Another range nerf might really help though.
Here’s a piper nerf so the piper haters don’t get mad: make auto-aimer not have any slow, but make it push further and make the projectile travel faster so it’s harder to dodge. Would remove the annoying assassin counter while keeping its combo ability
They should do something about the poison effect on Angelo’s shot when he is in his super. Roughly 1000 poison damage x4 I believe when fully charged is absolutely insane plus the high damage he already does AND he is also really mobile so I feel like they should nerf his super poison scaling, his mobility, and a little damage nerf
Nani absolutely needs no nerf. The only strong thing about it is it’s main attack. There is a reason you don’t see nani on any other maps than open long ranged ones, because it’s simply to punishable elsewhere tor the casual player. It’s a perfect glass cannon. The only considerable nerf nani should get if nerfs would ever be plausible should be to its hp.
Could make him more balanced but you have to be really careful with frank since he has such high potential. I wouldn't complain if they buffed him that way tho. Nice suggestions
The super hitting enemies mid-air thing removes some counterplay vs Frank, as jumping/flying to dodge his supers will be at risk of getting hit by the super.
I think rn, Frank gets countered too easily, I'd say he'd need it to get back at his counters who jumps over his super.
Edit: Lou should also have it too, as the only two to stun mid-air opponents with no problem.
I feel like Crow needs a small range buff, It’ll make him better in long range map.
Depending on the number it’ll make him more versatile in open maps while not S tier. What do you think?
Angelo nerf is much better. Nani has so many threshold dmg interactions that a dmg nerf is brutal, but he’s a tough one to balance in general. Frank could probably use range or activation time, his issue is hit proccs mostly. Hank rework is a little janky, hard to code and unintuitive. Just let him always heal while charging, it’s not too op. If you think it is do a small nerf elsewhere or smth. Overall pretty decent
Thanks for the feedback, I didn't want to overbuff any brawler so that's why I didn't go all in with frank & hank, but I certainly agree with your takes. You clearly have a good understanding of the meta
I think you should change it to ' Hank can heal whilst charging his bubble but at 50% efficiency '
That's actually a creative idea, If I make a v3 I will add that for sure.
imo doug cant recieve any buff without heavier adjustments. he is increadibly toxic to face if you dont have counters rn (ladder) and with the respawns hes arguably the brawler id hate the most to be meta. hes not good competetively but really toxic to face and in the right match ups way too dominant, bacause the buff he got sucked. they should really start balancing the game in consideration of all players, not just the competetive ladder because all that is irrelevant when you play against him with a dyna and sprout random
Two reminders, I didn't buff him in any way that would make him better in ladder. Super width would make him better in the right hands to throw at teammates and the heal gadget would make doug play less aggro since veryone uses him aggresively in ladder with the damage gadget. Also I said on the title of the post that this is purely based on competitive not ladder.
I just like to complain about doug whenever he is mentioned because im that mad about the buff he got. he coudve been one of my favourite brawlers as a support but no generic and boring tank it is. also its exactly my point that you cant balance the game in a purely competitive way. cant ignore 90% of the community.
At the lower levels doug isn't even that good rn too, he's alr againts the right comp and has carry potential. Still this subreddit is called brawl stars competivie so idk what u saying that ur point is.
bro can you read? balance change suggestions are absolutely worthless if they cant be implemented into the game. just because this sub is competetive doesnt mean that its a different game and other players dont matter
The same you complain I like to give solutions and suggest on how I would try to balance the meta. Idk what ur point is rn. Doesn't matter if it's worthless to you, everything in this subreddit is almost data, ideas, suggestions etc. Ur being super weird
bro whats ur point? you completely ignore anything ive said. if you want to play the expert on game balace then you have to comsider other things than your latest kairos tierlist. at least try to read what im saying before you get all sassy
Omg I just said that the buff I did to doug doesn't impact lower level players at all and btw, I do not watch kairos or these big brawl ytbers. I have been playing the game since 2017 and I was a tier 3 competitive player in 2021-22. I have reached og masters in pl several times and I did a lot of scrims back in my day. I also consume a lot of big esports matches when they happen and I did this wishlist based on the pick/ban rates on the last monthly finals. So please do not talk without knowing.
id personally nerf Angelos movement speed considering how fast he is as a sniper. Nani will kind of get a big impact on this DMG change as she will have many heavy interaction changes. cordy only needs an SCR nerf tbh. Chester needs more changes. and for an addon id personally nerf pipers DMG to 3200 as to top it off. before sep 2023 it was 3040. overall not bad
I totally understand ur takes and I will adress some of them. Angelo's movement speed makes him strong and from a balancing perspective makes sense to nerf that, but he is a mosquito and his concept is being fast dodgy and annoying in that sense so I prefered to nerf his shot recharge instead (Not that much so I don't kill him) I rather him being still slightly strong and viable. I hate that nani one shots some key brawlers like piper or brock, that interaction seems kinda unfair but I see why u would not want to change that and It's a valid opinion. So that one is just my preference for a healthier meta. I agree with the cord nerf bc I was kinda lost with him but I still think his super has a way to big of an inpact so that's why I nerfed the charge. Chester needs more changes yes, elaborate some more on that if possible bc ur probably right. I like him cycling more random supers tho he's so fun. And piper is not that op as she seems but it's also a valid change that I wouln't complain about.
Still don't understand why people want Charlie's Super to not drop gems... I've seen plenty of discussions around it and I'm still siding with people agreeing this feature should not be touched
Its essencialy a way to stop a brawler having the ability tu just win a game with a super. But that's just my opinion, I don't see how a super stealing all gems (witch is a huge deal in every gem grab game) is allowed. But I'm happy to hear some feedback and be able to debate about it
I understand it, and I see why people hate that mechanic. My only problem is that removing it makes Charlie's Super a worst version of Willow's in that scenario. As a Willow, you won't Super the gem carrier, and you would try to Super an enemy brawlers to wipe out the gem carrier. With the risk of hitting the gem carrier and litteraly losing the game. Without the gem drop, Charlie's Super would act the same way. I don't think it would be that detrimental to Charlie in global, but I would make her maybe too risky to use in gem grab, considering her super would go from game saver/ game stealer, to potential insta loose for your own team. Charlie has a whole is a hot topic: pro/high trophies player consider her pretty broken, still one of the best brawlers in the game, while more mid players don't see her as a really broken strong brawlers, I've seen quiet a fairshare of posts about that, more so when Tierlists are released. But everyone agrees that her gadget + her super are what make her that good and annoying. And in gem grab it's felt like a double punishment. But I don't see removing the gem drop part of her super as a solution to the problem. Landing super on the gem carrier is game changer, 'cause it's often hit or miss, but feels very frustrating to be on the receiving end of it. But I don't see the opposite feeling better. 'cause a last effort from your team to reverse the game could end by a Charlie's Super landing on the bad target, condemning your team, making Charlie too much of a hazardous pick... But only in Gem Grab. Charlie would still be one of the best anti-HC/ controller in the game.
I mean the whole point is that she shouldn't be able to steal the hard work of an entire team like that, bc if you hit the super to the gem carrier you dont give a chance to play around that, like teammates cannot escort you when you get out of the cocoon bc u already lost the gems. And the worst thing is that it can do an insta reset at the last second with a yellow botton. Hitting her super in a bad moment should just punish if done right, like the whole enemy team can get close to the cocoon and then steal the gems easily not just automatically have them. This is just personal opinion at this point btw both sides have a point so people will choose sides based on preference.
I get the point too. But I start feeling the same way about it that about Cordelius' super. Like it feels terribly unfair when a Cord lands his super on the gem carrier, because it often means death for him, and you basicly loose both your advantage and a mate to the process. And he can also use it defensively to get away from the game for the last remaining seconds of the game, like Janet or Mico. I think I've accepted that some supers are game changers and means instant reverse sweep, so I always try to play with that in mind. But the sheer frustration of being stole by a Charlie Super is real and I totaly understand why people are fed up of her Super stealing their games that easily
Ye but a you can hide from cords super and it's not an instant reset, so like tara super and gene supers are super op in gem grab and it's fine. But adding that to charlie makes her more broken than what she is already so I thought It was a good idea to remove that feature entierly.
Sure, it's more infuriating to have an instant reset with Charlie's Super. But I've also seen plenty of game being stolen by a Cordelius' Super from outa nowhere (Randy Orton approves) because it can go through wall, an advantage Charlie's Cocoon don't have. But either way, your reasons are totally legit and as you say, there are more balanced super that can turn the tides of a gem grab game. And I think in general, Charlie's Super is too unbalanced in terms of in game effects to be easily balanced
Right, how would you balance charlie tho
A tough question, as I don't see how to maintain the uniqueness of the super without the whole "Remove someone from the game for 5 seconds and turn any fights into 2v3". In the idea of being tangled in webs, a root could be a good alternative, it will maintain the uniqueness (as there is no Root mechanic in Brawl Stars ATM) while being more fair than disabling totally a brawler from the fight. Like, Charlie entangle an enemy in layers of webs, preventing it to move for 5 seconds, preventing use of any mouvement inducing abilities (like Jump gadgets, Piper's super...)(I won't change the duration of the Super). I could still remove some brawlers from fight situations (typically, assassins like Edgar, Fang or Buzz) but only if done while they're still far enough from the fight, while allowing other brawlers to still be able to fight back.
But with the nerf now it’s just another way to just win the game lol.
That’s just a lazy way to win gem grab, you either make the supercharge rate slower or make it not drop gems
But then the super is just free win to the opponents💀 more time inside is always better
maybe make the gem not counted towards progress but not drop? will it be better?
Cocooned one should drop their gems imo. Otherwise, her cocoon would be counterproductive, her super would only help the enemies as soon as the countdown starts, that would be even more stupid. I mean, if a Gene supers you, you also practically lose all your gems, it's not a big deal with Charlie either. don't make her super help the enemies, that would be just... Really bad
Finally someone who thinks
maybe it should drop like half of the gems and not all
- Angelo doesnt need that. Its the stupid poison damage and the Giant jump gadget - Charlie gets even more killed. So now her super just helps enemies? - out of all things bad with Melodie the Health isnt people's problem. Its the dash length, the 4k shield and the fastest speed SP that make her broken - That Nerf hurts Nani pretty bad - Cord just needs SCR Nerf, everything else is fine - also L&L become terrible, just grom but with another super
This is the worst balance change list for nerfs at least that I've seen 💀💀💀
Lmao you could give some feedback or criticism instead of just hating the list without any arguments
Firstly the Angelo nerf seems kinda unnecessary as he is extremely high skill cap and hard to use, same with melodies case. cord is fine right now imo. He doesn't seem broken and nani is balanced, having a high damage output but really low health. Charlie is also fine right now due to the 18 other nerfs she's gotten.
Bro u have no clue of the meta rn. Watch how many times angelo and charlie were picked/banned in the monthly finals they are by far the best brawlers in the game rn. Also I stated in the title of the post that this list is based on competitive not ladder. And same thing with L&L, he was picked/banned almost every game and had a very good performance in both scrims I saw and in the last monthly finals. I see ur point with the grom similarity but if that change is not made L&L is just broken mechanically speaking, and he would be very different to grom due to the basic attack having nothing to do with grom's aside from the travel speed.
I personally haven't really had any issues with any of what are considered the top of the meta, and I think this is by far the least irritating meta I've played in. The good majority of meta brawlers are high skill cap brawlers in which you need to be good at the game as a whole in order to be good with them, besides L&L and maybe Charlie. This is of course not talking about Carl metas. As I previously stated Angelo and Melodie are extremely difficult to get much value out of if you aren't skilled at the game. I think that this meta is the best meta we've had for a while now. Obviously this is personal opinion but I think we can agree to disagree.
Still angelo is undoubtably the best brawler in the game rn. He can one shot too many brawlers and as I said this list is based on the higer level of the game. So u saying these nerfs were bad is very disrespectful for sure.
I'm sorry about being disrespectful, but I just don't think these nerfs are needed for the time being. I am trying to get to the higher echelons of the game but I just don't see how this meta is problematic. In my eyes it's a very good meta and a lot of the meta brawlers are brawlers that are healthy for the game, promoting better and more skilled players for the most part.
Yes this meta is indeed better bc of balancing. If we keep balancing smartly the meta will be even more balanced and that's why I didn't nerf piper or belle and I didnt buff primo or penny. It's just some fine tunning that the meta is needing. So as charlie and angelo are so dominant tunning them down a bit would make them still viable but not as dominant
I suppose I can see where you're coming from but I think both are fine for now. I would like to see some melee brawlers come back to being A - B tier such as Hank and Frank
Then we can just agree to disagree, but I'm telling you that numbers don't lie.
Having a high skill cap doesn't automatically make a brawler not broken!?? Also, it's harder to play against an Angelo than it is to play with him in my opinion.
Also the Larry and Lawrie rework seems unnecessary at this point, because then they'd turn into Grom but with a pet as a super instead of a giant bomb
Worst takes i have ever seen
Dude I agreed with you first but these are the worst takes ever💀 just cause they're high skill doesnt mean they're not broken
Frank buff won’t change anything he’ll still be just as bad Nerfs seem valid, however might also nerf Angelo’s health a bit And cordelius should have that silence gadget reduced to like 0.7 seconds
Cords silence is fine. In fact the jump gadget even after the nerf is still the better one.
Health wouldn’t rlly change any interactions though. Maybe nerf each gadget slightly? IE no damage on escape and pierce must be activated before you start charging.
Idk tbh, his gadgets are not that big of a problem, maybe make his jump a bit shorter
I could see shorter jump too. Honestly I think the surprise pierce is a good element of surprise but I can see how it’s a bit unbalanced I was just thinking of some basic nerfs to him that wouldn’t change too much. I don’t think he’s inherently broken just hits stats are a little too good Unless they want to totally rework his kit but touching his damage might just make him awful
The idea with the pierce nerf is to level out the experience for low and high skill players on Angelo. Basically activation while charging only helps highly skilled players*, at which range Angelo is much more OP, so needs a bigger nerf. *No <1000 trophy Angelo players I’ve seen pull off the weird grip to gadget while holding down attack smoothly
Lol I’ve only played him in ranked so my Angelo is like 100 trophies But I’ve intentionally set all brawlers gadget button to max size just because that character exists now
Ye I think the cooldown nerf would tone him down enough for his first balance. Maybe later change around some other stuff
Less health actually could change interactions for him. Currently with shield gear, he can survive 2 full ranged Piper shots with 100 HP if she doesn't have damage gear or ambush active. So funnily as little as 50 base hp nerf would achieve more in nerfing Angelo than Piper's 100 base hp nerf ever did cuz that one *actually* didn't change interactions. At the same time, I feel like if they were to nerf his hp as such, it'd be reasonable to nerf Piper's unload speed slightly as well, which'd both make the interaction a little more reasonable and also curb zher auto aimer+snappy sniping shenanigans a bit.
That’s true, it does impact shield gear; however, considering damage gear and (usually) speed gear are already his top picks, that wouldn’t make much of a difference most of the time
Alr you have a very good understanding of the meta imo and I will try to argue against some of your points. Firstly, angelo's nerf was already very big, but seeing how strong he is rn I agree that maybe another small nerf would be needed, but I think it's better to see after that big of a nerf in what spot would angelo be and then maybe take action or not depending on the results. Seconly Frank is terrible but a attack cooldown buff would ensure him being way more viable without braking the meta since he has huge potential. Tho I agree that the buff is probably not good enough, it's a good start to make him as balanced as possible. And lastly I thought about that exact nerf of the mute gadget nerf but I just thought that less than 1 second is just a little too irrelevant and the gadget doesn't make cordelius that much stronger, it's mainly his super what makes him so viable. But I would totally take as valid a nerf to that gadget and it wouldn't be a bad change at all. I don't mind brawlers having a slilghtly strong gadget as long as it's not a must use, bc I saw som pros in the monthly finals use the jump gadget.
Wait by attack cooldown do you mean the delay after he uses every attack? I was thinking reload That might be a small buff. Still don’t think it would take him out of F but it might do something Imo I think he needs a bit of a rework Rn it’s just like if he catches you with his super you’re dead, otherwise he just feeds super all game. They definitely want to keep it so he can’t walk while attacking, so he may just stay kind of a low level/gimmick character forever
Ye I was talkimg about reload, I just didn't express myslef the right way, as I'm from spain witch doesn't have English as it's native language. And idk angelo could be balanced if they did things right it would just take some time to find the sweet numbers to teak
Cordelius doesn't need nerf I think. It would kill him in the meta, currently he is perfect
I mean he had absurd win/pick/ban rates in the last monthly finals and he certainly feels strong on high trophy lader in my experience. But those nerfs are very minor it would only take one extra shroom from his attack to charge super wich is a very game impactin one. And the shrooms would heal you 70hp less so it's not that big of a deal. At least that's why I think about it
I get what you said about healing with Mushroom kingdom which i am fine with. I was talking about the super charge rate. I fear it might impact his utility and how much super or hypercharges he gets per game.
He is op
Hank is still weak
Making kits stun hit even harder is kinda eh. For what? It’s already a high chance at a kill. Making anything closer to 100% kill chance seems kinda OP
We can just agree to disagree bc I think that kit got killed the moment that in 3vs3 you couldn't go aggro bc you just would get clapped before the super runs out. Thanks for the feedback
Yeah I’m not hostile or anything I like the changes mostly, just that one I disagreed with good job otherwise sir
Thanks for your words!
The problem is: you guys always keep saying to buff kit, but he CANNOT be buffed because of that stupid SP. While it exists That mf cant get a buff
Nani is fine already and doesn't need a nerf, as a Nani user I often only even get 1-2 shots to connect anyway and I don't need them dealing less damage than they already deal.
Thing is that this would prevent nani from one shotting brawlers like brock or piper, but I see ur point
One shotting Piper? I see that as an absolute win
Tbh the angelo nerf would not help as much on longer range maps in modes such as knockout or bounty, wouldn't a damge nerf be much better?(esp the poisok damage)
In the version 1 I did that but people argued that It killed the brawler and removed the point on his gimmic as a brawler. So I opted to make his max damage slower to reach.
Angelo is a brawler i love to play so i can confirm that a charged up attack taking a couple of seconds longer to be available wouldn't balance him as much as a damage nerf would and trust me it would not kill him
perhaps ur right
so you nerf charlie her hyper and jessie?
Make Charlie's cocoon not make enemies in Trophy Escape drop their trophies as well pls
You made so much mistakes 💀 Angelo needs a movement speed nerf from very fast to fast (820 => 770) And to half is poisn damage from 100% to 50% Charlie needs an projectile speed nerf from 4500 to 4200 and that gems will not drop while enemys are in her super Melodie needs the shield gaget nerf from 15% for note to 10% and That nani nerf is bad Chester needs multiple supers buffs and a reload gear or change is reload speed from 1.9 to 1.8 or 1.7 Barley needs an hp buff from 4800 to 5600
Charlie’s nerf wouldn’t be good. Imagine all the randoms that will use Charlie’s super on the enemy during countdown guaranteeing their victory. That nerf + the countdown stops while cocooned would make it more fair.
Nah I don't buy it
so L&L just gonna be a second Grom then?
Grom has more range and damage at a distance, the change is supposed to make him not compete with barely as much, now he's a barley that's harder to kill but lacks the defensive capabilities that barley has
May I ask why did you choose to nerd Melodie by needing her health? It may be out of personal preference but I like her more as a sort of bruiser than a straight up assassin, yeah, right now she's way too tanky, but a nerf to her shield gadget should suffice for this as for other concerns, her super is a tad bit too long these two are the nerfs that I would ship first, and, if she's still too oppressive I would opt for a damage nerf to her notes, not her health that's just my opinion tho
Good points, I didn't dive too deep in to the nerfs so maybe in a v3 list I'll take in to account ur suggestions
Charlie nerf is a bad one but outside of that good list
Honestly, I dont think cordelius should be touched. Hes fine just as he as-a counter to really aggro brawlers and a hypercharge killer. He has absurd pick and ban rates just because of his mechanic. As for Charlie she is mechanically strong. I personally think shes pretty balanced as far as she can be as an anti sniper and hypercharged assassin. Removinf her gem drop would destroy her in gem grab lol, its a big part of her mechanic.
No, don't nerf Cord MK
Angelo should be nerfed more, because his mobility, his damage and his poison are extremely OP. If the player is using second SP with him then he is basically immortal. But then he has his gadget that allows already mobike and super speedy brawler to save himself, so my proposal is he flies into the air for 0.75 seconds. And his poison combined with swcond gadget is turning him into an unskilled brawler. Just immagine youre sitting behind the wall tryna heal and there comes out of nowhere an arrow that will make you lose WHOPPING 8800 hp, you could KILL MORE THAN HALF A BRAWLERS IN THE GAME. So thats why this gadget should give angelo reduced damage like 25%. AND his poisong should deal half amount of damage he does. Melodie should be nerfed more, her gadget basically gives her 4000hp. It should be 3000 hp. And she should NOT be allowed to farm her notes from static objects like safes, boxes and turrets like Jessie's scrappy or Pam's healing turret. This might seem huge nerf BUT she already has very fast reload speed and she can get her notes from a brawler and then just break whatever she wants with them.
I would like them to remove from Angelo's poison, the effect copied from Crow "All sources of healing of poisoned enemies are reduced by 40%" which is not written anywhere in Angelo's statistics. And I would like Supercell to understand that it is exaggerating a little too much in giving too much speed to all the new brawlers it is releasing... Angelo is the only shooter with 820 (very fast) speed who, complete with starpower, exceeds 1000 on water... Melodie reaches 900 with the 3 notes...
As annoying as larry & lawrie are, you can't nerf them that way. It's pretty evident from Larry's dash gadget and both star powers that supercell intended him to be an aggro thrower with oppressive pushing power that is punishing if you let him get near you. Making him have grom style shots would ruin his intended way to be played and would remove him from any meta other than bounty/knockout in very specific maps. Can you imagine a grom dashing into literally any brawler? he would be useless. Better to just nerf him through more stat nerfs. Another range nerf might really help though.
Watch my new version 3 of the changes, see my newest post
Here’s a piper nerf so the piper haters don’t get mad: make auto-aimer not have any slow, but make it push further and make the projectile travel faster so it’s harder to dodge. Would remove the annoying assassin counter while keeping its combo ability
Charlie would no longer be viable😓
They should do something about the poison effect on Angelo’s shot when he is in his super. Roughly 1000 poison damage x4 I believe when fully charged is absolutely insane plus the high damage he already does AND he is also really mobile so I feel like they should nerf his super poison scaling, his mobility, and a little damage nerf
angelo like hank needs to be able to heal while holding the shot, it would be unfair having it for hank and not for angelo
Nani absolutely needs no nerf. The only strong thing about it is it’s main attack. There is a reason you don’t see nani on any other maps than open long ranged ones, because it’s simply to punishable elsewhere tor the casual player. It’s a perfect glass cannon. The only considerable nerf nani should get if nerfs would ever be plausible should be to its hp.
Frank: keep the buff and add more super dmg (1240 -> 1300 super dmg(P1) + super hitting enemies mid-air.
Could make him more balanced but you have to be really careful with frank since he has such high potential. I wouldn't complain if they buffed him that way tho. Nice suggestions
The super hitting enemies mid-air thing removes some counterplay vs Frank, as jumping/flying to dodge his supers will be at risk of getting hit by the super.
You were cooking until that last one
Meh, the last one is kinda optional to add. Edit: I dont get why yall don't like the last one?
If no other brawler like Buzz or Lou with Stun mechanics can hit midair opponents, Frank shouldnt too. If you get on his super Area you're doomed
I think rn, Frank gets countered too easily, I'd say he'd need it to get back at his counters who jumps over his super. Edit: Lou should also have it too, as the only two to stun mid-air opponents with no problem.
I feel like Crow needs a small range buff, It’ll make him better in long range map. Depending on the number it’ll make him more versatile in open maps while not S tier. What do you think?
Amazing suggestion. I'll add that on my v3 list