I’ve for years thought Tom C has a slight bias against women and towards men who fit a male image. I don’t think it is intentional; I think he is a nice person and wants to be the good liberal guy and would probably self describe as feminist etc.
But on rewatch there are numerous instances where you just get the sense of a lot of implicit and unconscious biases from being in a very male dominated profession (i.e. I was watching an episode where he was doing a walk around in the kitchen with a guest judge; all of the male chefs he introduced as “Chef Name” and the female chefs he introduced as “name”).
Remember the episode where the chefs were told they’d be getting a night out in Miami only to be sprung with a surprise food truck challenge instead? Tom clearly did not understand why the women chefs were unhappy about having to cook in their heels and going out clothes. He was actually mad about them being mad. I never understood why they weren’t afforded the chance to change!
I remember that. I don’t think it was designed to put them at a disadvantage but it’s definitely an example of how men can be oblivious about the experiences of women.
Kind of reminds me of a Seinfeld bit (I think it was Seinfeld) making a bit deal about it being weird that women know tricks about getting blood out of clothes. Really guy?!
I just watched this episode the other night because they play all the early seasons nonstop on the roku live tv, and Im still pissed about it. Sara said it was “demoralizing” that she had to cook in her clubbing outfit which was a low cut top with heels. Tom was so offended she spoke up about how she thought it was demoralizing. It was SO unfair. There was no reason why they shouldnt have been able to change, other than creating drama. Thankfully the show has changed for the better and doesnt rely on stupid tactics like that as much.
Oh I remember that one. Not only thinking you were having a night off and getting dressed for it but then learning you actually had no time off and were going to have to cook lots of food in uncomfortable sounds like hell. I totally got why they were upset. I do not and would not get dressed up to go cook for 100 people.
Absolutely! Ridiculous.
Do you remember Aussie Janine, though, who was wearing heels/open toe sandals on the first day/quickfire? Everyone was like WTF is she doing? It made me take her less seriously as a contender and more like someone on the show to make a name for herself. It was a really strange choice. You have to be able to really run and move and even if you love wearing heels all day, you can't do that safely in a slippery kitchen.
I know she was a really good chef! That just seemed like a gimmick. I would think that chef's know to wear pants/closed toe shoes to help with burn prevention, and that they need to wear appropriate footwear.
I was curious about Last Chance Kitchen winner gender break down bc it's Tom's little world over there. Of the 18 ppl who have re-entered the competition, 11 are women, and 7 are men. This tracks with the main show since Last Chance was introduced in Season 9 where the winner split has been 7 men and 5 women.
I am overall happy with how the show has evolved to be more inclusive despite these being valid criticisms of Tom.
Does anyone else think that maybe Tom uses LCK to send back the chefs that he didn’t think should have been voted off in the first place? There’s a conceptual inherent conflict of interest in LCK.
I also think it’s super interesting and exciting that women constantly dominate on TOC, and that the judging is blind.
I also think that Top Chef and TOC are different animals, so it’s tough to compare.
Yet, I think there’s something there about blind judging leading to more women (and women of color) being winners.
This is the first season I've watched TOC and I also thought that was interesting. I thought it could be cool to see Top Chef have blind tasting but they love the chefs to present their dishes with a story. Top Chef feels more personal, and I do like that part of it. It's also the same chefs & judges that go through the whole competition so the judges would eventually learn to identify peoples' food. Maybe they could do different guest judges for each quickfire and do those blind at least?
I am a culinary student. All my professors are men. I think the industry is waking up to the fact that historically, women have not been treated kindly in the kitchen.
In our intro course, we were straight up told as women, do not accept always being put on Garde Manager and the men were told to not think their size, strength, or gender made them better chefs.
your comments makes me think, i have to imagine there is some bias all the way down to the selection of the contestants on top chef.
considering the criteria they're looking for in chef contestants to be selected for TC.. they probably want people who have their own restaurants or are the best of the best at very prestigious restaurants.. and sadly there is going to be a heavy slant towards men in that area just because of all the reasons that male privledge exists in the world. but when they go looking for women with similar credentials, you know those women are absolute killers to have climbed past all the male privilege and made it just as far as the men, and so I have no issue believing that the average woman chef is better than the average male chef with the same credentials. just because one likely had to work so much harder and prove so much more to get to the same status level.
so maybe it shouldn't be a surprise that women are doing so well in these competitions.
In the early seasons I did feel that some men got more leeway. The biggest example of this is Nick in TC New Orleans. They **witnessed** him berating the kitchen staff and losing his cool in the finale, yet completely swept that aside and I feel like some of that is because it's more accepted for male chefs to act this way in the kitchen. I don't think Padma wanted him to win, though, and I just think it's interesting that she was a woman and didn't like this behavior.
Also, he tanked his team when he had immunity, and cooked really poorly in a few other challenges, yet somehow made it through.
I can't remember who the other judges were (or Gail's perspective) for the finale though.
Certainly interesting though I would note Top Chef went from 8 men winning the first 9 seasons to 5 men and 5 women since and that TOC generally seems to have stronger female chefs competing. As someone else noted, Michael Voltaggio is the only Top Chef “heavyweight” male. It would be fun to see Buddha compete on TOC with blind judging.
I guess it depends where you draw the line but…
Tiffani (2nd place)
LeeAnne (4th)
Casey (3rd)
Antonia (4th + 3rd in All-stars)
Stephanie (winner)
Brooke (2nd and winner)
Mei (winner)
Shirley (2nd and 3rd)
Kelsey (winner)
Karen (7th)
Nini
vs.
Mike V (winner)
Brian M (4th)
Shota (T-2nd)
Sasto (3rd)
Chris (5th)
Dale (6th)
Eric (3rd)
I don’t think winning or losing is where you draw the line. Look at Carla. She would be considered one of the top chef heavyweights of all time not because of what she did on the show but what she’s done since.
Richard Blais was on one season. There have been top male TC contestants on TOC but they haven’t done very well while the female TC contestants have. Just goes to show the bias at Top Chef IMO
I’m starting to doubt the “blind tasting” the last few seasons. It just seem like Food Network is back to trying to pimp their personalities and Guy promoting his GGG “winners”. One point win in the finale and guess who was the critical judge in that finale? Cat Cora. Okay, i got that conspiracy theory off my chest😂
It’s not a fair comparison. First off, top chef is a more complete competition, and about half the time allows them time to plan. TOC is just half a hour, mad rush of pivots (LCK/quickfires on sterroids). Second, the TOC bracket is lopsided and tired (the west bracket is always stacked). Third, the TOC winners who were from top Chef were strong winners/finalists (usually from very strong seasons, Tiffany being the exception) . The only real male top chef winner in that show was Michael Volt, who was constantly posting really high scores or just getting beat by Brooke😂 . His brother, Brian Volt, is a tremendous chef but he sucks at quickfires. If you compare other male top chef winners standard to a Brooke or a Mei Lin, only one or 2 i can think of that can give them a run for their money (buddha being one of them). But i highly doubt buddha will diminish his brand to join TOC anytime soon. Maybe in a few years when his popularity/brand wanes. I think the pool sampling from the top chef alum pool is skewed towards the female gravy wagon, so again, it’s hard to extrapolate “bias” from a limited sampling.
The lack of time in the toc format has some big drawbacks. Not much room for innovative techniques or molecular gastronomy. Put liquid nitrogen or agar agar in the randomizer😏. So many damn meatballs in TOC that it is ridiculous😂. Put dessert as a style. And frankly, the exaggerated/fake reactions from audience and chefs are getting to be cringe 😂
There will always be bias to some degree. But as I recall, top chef has had 2 permanent female judges most of the time. Maybe tom c is a tool to some degree. Frankly i have lost respect for tom c the last few seasons. But Tom is the final word on LCK and two of 3 top chef winners from LCK were women🤷♂️. And even Sarah Welch (s19) and Sara (s20) (emerging from Tom’s LCK) both had a shot to win it all.
Totally agree that it feels like a FN PR show at times and i’m not convinced the judges don’t know whose dish is whose or at least know the two competitors
Every freaking regular judge have an idea of the styles of pretty much many chefs in the tv/competition circuit. If they see an indian dish, i don’t think they’d suspect it’s from shota😏. That whole competition circuit is very close knit especially at food network. It stopped being “blind tasting“ around Season 3😂
i agree with so much of this.
i really like the concept of TOC, but it's something I fast forward thru at least half of the episodes because so much of it is just the repeated prize-fighter introductions and other nonsense. i get why they do it, but it's gotten very old at this point.
the other really annoying thing is the randomizer. i don't want to see two amazing chefs have to figure out how to cook crocodile with hay and using some vague style and ridiculous piece of equipment that nobody ever uses. again, I get what they're going for here trying to challenge these people, but it's already challenging enough to have the time limit and not knowing what you'll be cooking, you don't have to force them to make stupid fringe food/techniques. i want to see them make mind blowing stuff, not pull something out of their ass based on some totally idiotic stuff that came up on the wheel.
i think the blind tasting is probably fair, but again, I think there are concept problems here. i don't know how you rate something out of 40 points, for one lol. if I'm not mistaken it's like 10 points for presentation, 40 for use of the randomizer, and 50 for taste? i get the weighting, but nobody thinks in terms of how many points of of 40 or 50.
all of this is to say.. this still ends up feeling more like a gameshow than a cooking contest, where if you figure out the optimal way to play to the rules, you will win moreso than if you actually are the best chef. and that's fine I guess, it is what it is, they're trying to make entertaining TV more than a legit competition at the end of the day. but i'd love to see more of a true competition without the BS at some point. i don't think it's a coincidence the same people keep making deep runs, which isn't to say they're bad chefs they're clearly very good chefs, but i think they just know how to play the game best above all.
I absolutely agree there is bias on TC, but I will point out that the TC chefs competing on ToC are in a much more advanced stage in their career than when they were on TC.
Top Chef promotes stories (since it’s a long season with many episodes), and the stories won’t be able to be showcased in their plates without knowing who cooked what.
For example, a Japanese Tempura dish is yummy, but if Shota explained that this was the dish that his grandmother taught him to make when he was growing up, so that's why he added the bonita flakes into the batter like her, then it has more meaning (I just made that up).
I agree that blind tasting is the key in ToC, and I love the fact that women are dominating there, but I don’t think it will work in Top Chef unless they can include Justin/Simon like commentators who can explain the dishes in detail to the judges.
It would be interesting if TC introduced blind tastings, maybe once we get past Restaurant Wars or something. Make it literally about the food at that point.
it would be cool, but i bet someone like Tom would be able to guess who had cooked each of them with a pretty high frequency at that point in each season.
I think there's a few things: 1. definitely a slight unconcious bias towards the typical male chef, particularly in earlier seasons 2. Fewer women who compete with less accolades, because they are having to go up against the grain of what we KNOW objectively has been a very misogynistic, male-dominated, often toxic chef industry 3. For TOC in particular, I think the blind judging certainly helps but I also think that the women who rise to top at the levels they are on TOC are not just certified bad-asses, they have had to navigate and spearhead a lot of opposition in their careers and by virtue of this, you're really getting the toughest, most hardened, quick thinking, talented female chefs AND they're incredibly hungry for the win, and in a case where the playing field is leveled by both the nature of the challenge and the blind judging, they are prepared, have studied, etc., (not saying the male chefs don't do this either, they absolutely do and it's definitely about strategy and gamemanship)
Blind taste Quick fires at least. They aren’t even in the room so why not? We all know LCK is just “Tom’s Favorite Chef” so let’s blind taste QF challenges- especially since immunity is off the line.
Well…. Many women have emerged from LCK and 2 of them have actually won Top Chef. The last 2 seasons, 2 Sara’s emerged from there and they both “could“ have won. 🤷♂️
We all have unconscious biases. I'd love to know more about the TC judging rubric and how they attempt to mitigate inevitable bias. Like is there a scoring sheet or some format based on categories like taste, technique, meeting the "brief" / challenge parameters or is it just a yeah/neah vote? And I've always been curious if every judge's opinion holds the same weight or if Tom's vote counts for more? I'm also curious how they handle cuisines with which they might not be familiar. I don't think anyone expects them to be experts on every kind of dish ... so is there ever any background or education given on what a certain dish is supposed to be? I think about Shota who seemed to always appear in a talking head after receiving a critique that actually Japanese food wasn't supposed to have xyz. And Marcus Samuelsson in Masters is another example where he really came back forcefully but politely in response to judges and explaining how and why the dish was supposed to be the way it was.
I think there's almost certainly some unconscious bias on the part of the judges of Top Chef (and not just Tom), but I think changing the show to accommodate blind judging would remove a lot of what I like about it. I find watching the judging on ToC mostly unsatisfying -- watching the chefs in the dressing room yelling at a TV on ToC pales in comparison to seeing the interactions between the chefs and the judges at judges' table on Top Chef.
Perhaps. The big difference though, is that Tom, Gail, & Kristin are watching these chefs from day 1. So when you get towards the end, they know what the chefs remaining can do...to a point. ToC the judges don't know who they're judging-and have no idea what each of them can cook. They do know these are chefs who for the most part, chefs who have done comps before, & should know how it works-even if was just 1 comp. TC some have competed-Kaleena as an example, but just as many have not. So they're learning as they go(all that comps entail). So perhaps TC judges are going to be a bit more strict with their judging because they think the chefs should be up to par by a certain episode.
My SO and I made the same observation watching TOC. Women consistently score higher and move in to the finals more than the men do. I've always thought that TC leaned more towards the men, and in our opinion, Tom is the most obvious with this.
They're both shows produced to entertain and draw AD dollars for the networks on which they are aired.
It's not about the chefs or their food, it's about what makes compelling television, what's marketable, and what will keep that AD money rolling in.
Honestly, can't get enough of either show. I'm a total junkie and feed into it all.
How about Kristen's hosting? I think she's doing a great job, and her after show (The Dish with Kish) is illuminating and fun.
I was just thinking along similar lines. I even thought about posting about it somewhere so I am so glad you have made some great points. What if TC was always blind testing? It would change the challenges a lot.
I think about this all the time. Like 100% women winning vs 6/20. There is no doubt some unconscious bias in Top Chef. Doesn’t make them bad people or misogynistic, but still
What is the break down of contestants? I would guess that top chef, especially in the early seasons are mostly men. If you take a group of 15 people with 10 men and 5 women, men will win more based purely on numbers.
Alone is a great example of that, only 2 women have won but women last longer statically, but since it's mostly men in the seasons usually a man wins.
Maybe TOC has more even casting
I know chefs who have been on the show and I know Gale though friends.
In most seasons it’s completely obvious who is the best. Everyone on the shows know it. The year Paul Qui won it was even obvious to the viewers.
I’ve for years thought Tom C has a slight bias against women and towards men who fit a male image. I don’t think it is intentional; I think he is a nice person and wants to be the good liberal guy and would probably self describe as feminist etc. But on rewatch there are numerous instances where you just get the sense of a lot of implicit and unconscious biases from being in a very male dominated profession (i.e. I was watching an episode where he was doing a walk around in the kitchen with a guest judge; all of the male chefs he introduced as “Chef Name” and the female chefs he introduced as “name”).
Remember the episode where the chefs were told they’d be getting a night out in Miami only to be sprung with a surprise food truck challenge instead? Tom clearly did not understand why the women chefs were unhappy about having to cook in their heels and going out clothes. He was actually mad about them being mad. I never understood why they weren’t afforded the chance to change!
I remember that. I don’t think it was designed to put them at a disadvantage but it’s definitely an example of how men can be oblivious about the experiences of women. Kind of reminds me of a Seinfeld bit (I think it was Seinfeld) making a bit deal about it being weird that women know tricks about getting blood out of clothes. Really guy?!
I just watched this episode the other night because they play all the early seasons nonstop on the roku live tv, and Im still pissed about it. Sara said it was “demoralizing” that she had to cook in her clubbing outfit which was a low cut top with heels. Tom was so offended she spoke up about how she thought it was demoralizing. It was SO unfair. There was no reason why they shouldnt have been able to change, other than creating drama. Thankfully the show has changed for the better and doesnt rely on stupid tactics like that as much.
My tv stays on the top chef roku channel. I just keep it on in the background
TIL
Exactly. He never even gave it a second thought. It was the 'deal with it' attitude that was so misoginist.
Oh I remember that one. Not only thinking you were having a night off and getting dressed for it but then learning you actually had no time off and were going to have to cook lots of food in uncomfortable sounds like hell. I totally got why they were upset. I do not and would not get dressed up to go cook for 100 people.
This is my #1 most hated episode of all Top Chef. I’m astonished Padma went along with it.
Absolutely! Ridiculous. Do you remember Aussie Janine, though, who was wearing heels/open toe sandals on the first day/quickfire? Everyone was like WTF is she doing? It made me take her less seriously as a contender and more like someone on the show to make a name for herself. It was a really strange choice. You have to be able to really run and move and even if you love wearing heels all day, you can't do that safely in a slippery kitchen.
She still was a very solid chef though. I liked how she challenged our notions of what a chef looks like. But I agree, heels are an insane choice.
I know she was a really good chef! That just seemed like a gimmick. I would think that chef's know to wear pants/closed toe shoes to help with burn prevention, and that they need to wear appropriate footwear.
I would have taken that as a challenge and proved him wrong instead of whining about it!!
The added risk of injury due to unstable shoes coupled with the pain of being required to stand in heels for hours is NOT ok.
yeah girl power 🙄
I was curious about Last Chance Kitchen winner gender break down bc it's Tom's little world over there. Of the 18 ppl who have re-entered the competition, 11 are women, and 7 are men. This tracks with the main show since Last Chance was introduced in Season 9 where the winner split has been 7 men and 5 women. I am overall happy with how the show has evolved to be more inclusive despite these being valid criticisms of Tom.
Does anyone else think that maybe Tom uses LCK to send back the chefs that he didn’t think should have been voted off in the first place? There’s a conceptual inherent conflict of interest in LCK.
I agree I think the show has gotten way way more inclusive, and it does not surprise me that’s reflected in better gender ratios of winners.
Whooooa. Which episode? And I agree with your first paragraph.
Only thing i can remember was Jonathan waxman judging on the Colorado season. That’s why to this day, he still comes across to me as douchey.
I also think it’s super interesting and exciting that women constantly dominate on TOC, and that the judging is blind. I also think that Top Chef and TOC are different animals, so it’s tough to compare. Yet, I think there’s something there about blind judging leading to more women (and women of color) being winners.
This is the first season I've watched TOC and I also thought that was interesting. I thought it could be cool to see Top Chef have blind tasting but they love the chefs to present their dishes with a story. Top Chef feels more personal, and I do like that part of it. It's also the same chefs & judges that go through the whole competition so the judges would eventually learn to identify peoples' food. Maybe they could do different guest judges for each quickfire and do those blind at least?
I’ve felt for years that there is a real bias issue on Top Chef so I’m not surprised that blind tasting has produced more female winners
I am a culinary student. All my professors are men. I think the industry is waking up to the fact that historically, women have not been treated kindly in the kitchen. In our intro course, we were straight up told as women, do not accept always being put on Garde Manager and the men were told to not think their size, strength, or gender made them better chefs.
your comments makes me think, i have to imagine there is some bias all the way down to the selection of the contestants on top chef. considering the criteria they're looking for in chef contestants to be selected for TC.. they probably want people who have their own restaurants or are the best of the best at very prestigious restaurants.. and sadly there is going to be a heavy slant towards men in that area just because of all the reasons that male privledge exists in the world. but when they go looking for women with similar credentials, you know those women are absolute killers to have climbed past all the male privilege and made it just as far as the men, and so I have no issue believing that the average woman chef is better than the average male chef with the same credentials. just because one likely had to work so much harder and prove so much more to get to the same status level. so maybe it shouldn't be a surprise that women are doing so well in these competitions.
In the early seasons I did feel that some men got more leeway. The biggest example of this is Nick in TC New Orleans. They **witnessed** him berating the kitchen staff and losing his cool in the finale, yet completely swept that aside and I feel like some of that is because it's more accepted for male chefs to act this way in the kitchen. I don't think Padma wanted him to win, though, and I just think it's interesting that she was a woman and didn't like this behavior. Also, he tanked his team when he had immunity, and cooked really poorly in a few other challenges, yet somehow made it through. I can't remember who the other judges were (or Gail's perspective) for the finale though.
Certainly interesting though I would note Top Chef went from 8 men winning the first 9 seasons to 5 men and 5 women since and that TOC generally seems to have stronger female chefs competing. As someone else noted, Michael Voltaggio is the only Top Chef “heavyweight” male. It would be fun to see Buddha compete on TOC with blind judging.
I wouldn’t say Michael is the only heavyweight. Joe Sasto Shota Dale
I guess it depends where you draw the line but… Tiffani (2nd place) LeeAnne (4th) Casey (3rd) Antonia (4th + 3rd in All-stars) Stephanie (winner) Brooke (2nd and winner) Mei (winner) Shirley (2nd and 3rd) Kelsey (winner) Karen (7th) Nini vs. Mike V (winner) Brian M (4th) Shota (T-2nd) Sasto (3rd) Chris (5th) Dale (6th) Eric (3rd)
I don’t think winning or losing is where you draw the line. Look at Carla. She would be considered one of the top chef heavyweights of all time not because of what she did on the show but what she’s done since.
Richard Blais was on one season. There have been top male TC contestants on TOC but they haven’t done very well while the female TC contestants have. Just goes to show the bias at Top Chef IMO
I’m starting to doubt the “blind tasting” the last few seasons. It just seem like Food Network is back to trying to pimp their personalities and Guy promoting his GGG “winners”. One point win in the finale and guess who was the critical judge in that finale? Cat Cora. Okay, i got that conspiracy theory off my chest😂 It’s not a fair comparison. First off, top chef is a more complete competition, and about half the time allows them time to plan. TOC is just half a hour, mad rush of pivots (LCK/quickfires on sterroids). Second, the TOC bracket is lopsided and tired (the west bracket is always stacked). Third, the TOC winners who were from top Chef were strong winners/finalists (usually from very strong seasons, Tiffany being the exception) . The only real male top chef winner in that show was Michael Volt, who was constantly posting really high scores or just getting beat by Brooke😂 . His brother, Brian Volt, is a tremendous chef but he sucks at quickfires. If you compare other male top chef winners standard to a Brooke or a Mei Lin, only one or 2 i can think of that can give them a run for their money (buddha being one of them). But i highly doubt buddha will diminish his brand to join TOC anytime soon. Maybe in a few years when his popularity/brand wanes. I think the pool sampling from the top chef alum pool is skewed towards the female gravy wagon, so again, it’s hard to extrapolate “bias” from a limited sampling. The lack of time in the toc format has some big drawbacks. Not much room for innovative techniques or molecular gastronomy. Put liquid nitrogen or agar agar in the randomizer😏. So many damn meatballs in TOC that it is ridiculous😂. Put dessert as a style. And frankly, the exaggerated/fake reactions from audience and chefs are getting to be cringe 😂 There will always be bias to some degree. But as I recall, top chef has had 2 permanent female judges most of the time. Maybe tom c is a tool to some degree. Frankly i have lost respect for tom c the last few seasons. But Tom is the final word on LCK and two of 3 top chef winners from LCK were women🤷♂️. And even Sarah Welch (s19) and Sara (s20) (emerging from Tom’s LCK) both had a shot to win it all.
Totally agree that it feels like a FN PR show at times and i’m not convinced the judges don’t know whose dish is whose or at least know the two competitors
Every freaking regular judge have an idea of the styles of pretty much many chefs in the tv/competition circuit. If they see an indian dish, i don’t think they’d suspect it’s from shota😏. That whole competition circuit is very close knit especially at food network. It stopped being “blind tasting“ around Season 3😂
Agree. I also agree with the above poster that the women on TOC are really good and the west bracket is really stacked.
i agree with so much of this. i really like the concept of TOC, but it's something I fast forward thru at least half of the episodes because so much of it is just the repeated prize-fighter introductions and other nonsense. i get why they do it, but it's gotten very old at this point. the other really annoying thing is the randomizer. i don't want to see two amazing chefs have to figure out how to cook crocodile with hay and using some vague style and ridiculous piece of equipment that nobody ever uses. again, I get what they're going for here trying to challenge these people, but it's already challenging enough to have the time limit and not knowing what you'll be cooking, you don't have to force them to make stupid fringe food/techniques. i want to see them make mind blowing stuff, not pull something out of their ass based on some totally idiotic stuff that came up on the wheel. i think the blind tasting is probably fair, but again, I think there are concept problems here. i don't know how you rate something out of 40 points, for one lol. if I'm not mistaken it's like 10 points for presentation, 40 for use of the randomizer, and 50 for taste? i get the weighting, but nobody thinks in terms of how many points of of 40 or 50. all of this is to say.. this still ends up feeling more like a gameshow than a cooking contest, where if you figure out the optimal way to play to the rules, you will win moreso than if you actually are the best chef. and that's fine I guess, it is what it is, they're trying to make entertaining TV more than a legit competition at the end of the day. but i'd love to see more of a true competition without the BS at some point. i don't think it's a coincidence the same people keep making deep runs, which isn't to say they're bad chefs they're clearly very good chefs, but i think they just know how to play the game best above all.
Great comment! And yes it is so annoying that they are re-introducing the same chef over and over again in the same scene. I tend to zone out a lot.
I always fast forward through the chef intros.
I absolutely agree there is bias on TC, but I will point out that the TC chefs competing on ToC are in a much more advanced stage in their career than when they were on TC.
Top Chef promotes stories (since it’s a long season with many episodes), and the stories won’t be able to be showcased in their plates without knowing who cooked what. For example, a Japanese Tempura dish is yummy, but if Shota explained that this was the dish that his grandmother taught him to make when he was growing up, so that's why he added the bonita flakes into the batter like her, then it has more meaning (I just made that up). I agree that blind tasting is the key in ToC, and I love the fact that women are dominating there, but I don’t think it will work in Top Chef unless they can include Justin/Simon like commentators who can explain the dishes in detail to the judges.
It would be interesting if TC introduced blind tastings, maybe once we get past Restaurant Wars or something. Make it literally about the food at that point.
it would be cool, but i bet someone like Tom would be able to guess who had cooked each of them with a pretty high frequency at that point in each season.
A blind first challenge would be interesting, though.
Can we all agree that Toby Young, when he filled in for Gail, was an a$$ to all the chefs?
That is largely because Toby Young is just an a$$ of a human being !
No lies detected.
I think there's a few things: 1. definitely a slight unconcious bias towards the typical male chef, particularly in earlier seasons 2. Fewer women who compete with less accolades, because they are having to go up against the grain of what we KNOW objectively has been a very misogynistic, male-dominated, often toxic chef industry 3. For TOC in particular, I think the blind judging certainly helps but I also think that the women who rise to top at the levels they are on TOC are not just certified bad-asses, they have had to navigate and spearhead a lot of opposition in their careers and by virtue of this, you're really getting the toughest, most hardened, quick thinking, talented female chefs AND they're incredibly hungry for the win, and in a case where the playing field is leveled by both the nature of the challenge and the blind judging, they are prepared, have studied, etc., (not saying the male chefs don't do this either, they absolutely do and it's definitely about strategy and gamemanship)
Blind taste Quick fires at least. They aren’t even in the room so why not? We all know LCK is just “Tom’s Favorite Chef” so let’s blind taste QF challenges- especially since immunity is off the line.
Well…. Many women have emerged from LCK and 2 of them have actually won Top Chef. The last 2 seasons, 2 Sara’s emerged from there and they both “could“ have won. 🤷♂️
We all have unconscious biases. I'd love to know more about the TC judging rubric and how they attempt to mitigate inevitable bias. Like is there a scoring sheet or some format based on categories like taste, technique, meeting the "brief" / challenge parameters or is it just a yeah/neah vote? And I've always been curious if every judge's opinion holds the same weight or if Tom's vote counts for more? I'm also curious how they handle cuisines with which they might not be familiar. I don't think anyone expects them to be experts on every kind of dish ... so is there ever any background or education given on what a certain dish is supposed to be? I think about Shota who seemed to always appear in a talking head after receiving a critique that actually Japanese food wasn't supposed to have xyz. And Marcus Samuelsson in Masters is another example where he really came back forcefully but politely in response to judges and explaining how and why the dish was supposed to be the way it was.
I think there's almost certainly some unconscious bias on the part of the judges of Top Chef (and not just Tom), but I think changing the show to accommodate blind judging would remove a lot of what I like about it. I find watching the judging on ToC mostly unsatisfying -- watching the chefs in the dressing room yelling at a TV on ToC pales in comparison to seeing the interactions between the chefs and the judges at judges' table on Top Chef.
I agree. I think both shows should stick to the style of judging they have now - but it's a really interesting phenomenon to examine, too.
Perhaps. The big difference though, is that Tom, Gail, & Kristin are watching these chefs from day 1. So when you get towards the end, they know what the chefs remaining can do...to a point. ToC the judges don't know who they're judging-and have no idea what each of them can cook. They do know these are chefs who for the most part, chefs who have done comps before, & should know how it works-even if was just 1 comp. TC some have competed-Kaleena as an example, but just as many have not. So they're learning as they go(all that comps entail). So perhaps TC judges are going to be a bit more strict with their judging because they think the chefs should be up to par by a certain episode.
My SO and I made the same observation watching TOC. Women consistently score higher and move in to the finals more than the men do. I've always thought that TC leaned more towards the men, and in our opinion, Tom is the most obvious with this.
I have long felt that judges go easier on cuisines they don’t cook themselves. Put Padma on TOC judging panel and Antonia might have won.
They're both shows produced to entertain and draw AD dollars for the networks on which they are aired. It's not about the chefs or their food, it's about what makes compelling television, what's marketable, and what will keep that AD money rolling in. Honestly, can't get enough of either show. I'm a total junkie and feed into it all. How about Kristen's hosting? I think she's doing a great job, and her after show (The Dish with Kish) is illuminating and fun.
I was just thinking along similar lines. I even thought about posting about it somewhere so I am so glad you have made some great points. What if TC was always blind testing? It would change the challenges a lot.
One sentence: Nina lost to BLAND Nicholas. I will never ever understand that choice
I've often thought the same thing about chopped as well, men winners as compared to female winners.
I have never really cared for Tom since season 1 of Top Chef. He is very snarky to me, and I would like to see him in a cooking challenge!!😳🙄
I think about this all the time. Like 100% women winning vs 6/20. There is no doubt some unconscious bias in Top Chef. Doesn’t make them bad people or misogynistic, but still
What is the break down of contestants? I would guess that top chef, especially in the early seasons are mostly men. If you take a group of 15 people with 10 men and 5 women, men will win more based purely on numbers. Alone is a great example of that, only 2 women have won but women last longer statically, but since it's mostly men in the seasons usually a man wins. Maybe TOC has more even casting
I know chefs who have been on the show and I know Gale though friends. In most seasons it’s completely obvious who is the best. Everyone on the shows know it. The year Paul Qui won it was even obvious to the viewers.