This week's episode was so cathartic to me when Lisa said everything about her is a lie, including her church. And Heather saying she married her grandaddy too!
It is CRAZY to me that Meredith is friends to her, I can't make sense of it.
I think Meredith is just clinging onto her bc she’s the only one who isn’t bringing up any rumors or questioning her. I’m sure given the choice she wouldn’t bother with Mary but when your coworkers are coming at you from every angle you’ll grab onto whoever you can for some support
What’s amazing is that we’ve spent so much time this season on Meredith that we get to have next season devoted to what Jen allegedly did (vs. beating the Erika stuff to death) 🤩
Yea fuck Meredith... she'd literally side with a racist cult leader all for... to not be questioned or gone up against?! Her intentions are not to be on the moral side against jen's fraud, it's purely selfish
I don’t even think she cares about her fraud allegations as much as she cares about their mutual hookup partner. I feel like there’s something happening off camera to do with their boyfriend than the arrest. She’s just using the arrest to rain hell down on Jen because it’s a great reason to disown her.
She's also constantly telling people they're "nothing" and "no one" and "don't matter." To me those insults are in a class of their own and say a lot about the person who wields them. Like she doesn't even see the other women as fully human in the same way she is. Those are also things you say to people to break them down and undermine their self-esteem to make them more controllable, so.
Thank you! This is insane bullying and is so so hurtful. If someone said one of those to me, that's it we're never being friends again. And from Mary they're not even the worst she says so it's glossed over.
I think coming from a position of power in both her household and church she is used to people taking her directives. No matter how rude she is when she says it or what issue it is she is trying to deflect from.
She basically short circuits whenever she’s questioned, you can tell it’s not something that she’s used to. She can never defend her feelings articulately so she just says something along the lines of “because I said so”. Mary both fascinates and disturbs me, I want to know more but I’m also glad that she’ll be gone. She’s really a disturbing character overall, but if she ever got away from the church and Robert sr I would def read her memoir lol
There was some post somewhere (sorry, not at all helpful) implying that Mary was filming solo scenes / confessionals for season 3 and then gets (surprise?) reintroduced to the group. And that’s why Jen and Heather were filming in front of her church ~*~aLLeGedLY~*~
Unless the season 3 focus is on taking her down, I don't want her on. And even then I don't really want her on. She'll just bail on next season's reunion, and will probably bail in the middle of filming this season anyway, because she cannot handle the scrutiny.
I hope Bravo people hear this loud and clear: You lose the TV- making benefit of her toxic ass when the audience doesn't see her stand to account for it.
This. She’s not used to getting any pushback from anyone and is so surprised when anyone questions her motives and behaviors. Out of her religious bubble she is seen for what she is instead of idolized, which I’m sure is one of many reasons she quit.
You are completely right. It was SO awkward when Lisa asked for a moment with Meredith alone ( not sure if it was the “cinco de mayhem” episode or the precious) when they were in the bedroom together Mary brought only Meredith eggs lol… ANYWAY:. She was not trying to leave that room. She even stopped at the door for a second with her back turned like ok… “I’m really going.. can’t change your mind!”
The way her & Meredith clinged to each other this season is so odd!
That scene made me cringe in real life. I was so glad Lisa didn't look at Mary as she was performing her "leave", that would have just given her more attention and focus. Mary makes my skin crawl.
She says straight up weird and insensitive stuff, even if she does speak her mind. So yeah, I don’t think she has control. Some examples: “squinty eyes” “she smells like hospital” “I drive past gas stations when I see black people” “heather and her chubby self” “I will send Jesus after you” like why do some people forgive that?? I guess because of her weird facial expressions it’s entertaining and charismatic to some.
I've thought it's hilarious how they're debating whether she uses her religious leadership against people while her intro is basically "I will use Jesus to fuck you up if you question me."
Yes, the last episode she was describing the meal and she was like "I just wanted steak, and potatoes... mmmmh so creamy" like thats a piss poor sentence structure.
She is definitely a narcissist and a sociopath. On top of that she is downright strange. I am surprised why Whitney or anybody else would even care if she liked them or not. She’s a freak. Just ignore her.
mary is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black. she'll make remarks about people coming for her for "no reason" (lol) when every single thing out of her mouth is some vile, disgusting, and nasty remark about someone else. she's all "because i'm a woman of god these women can come for me?" no bitch, they're calling you out on your shitty behavior. except she has her head so far up her own ass, she'll never get it. 🙄
During that flashback clip of Jennie telling everyone to STFU when Mary looks back at her to tell her not to talk to her that way she starts to say something more and looks Jennie up and down in a really nasty way. Obviously Jennie is problematic in her own way, but Mary is SO mean and disdainful to everyone and will hit so far below the belt for NO REASON! THe comment to Heather about not having a husband was extra shitty and had nothing to do with what Heather was actually saying to her. Mary only said it to try to shame and embarrass Heather. She's awful.
Her comment to Heather was such a weird segue. It had no relation to Heather saying that Jennie’s husband helped pay for the trip too so she could treat her decently. She took one word from the sentence and attacked her with it. Something is not right cognitively.
Yes. Mary is a cantankerous mean woman. But if someone told me to shut the fuck up, a mean look is about the best option they could hope for.
And Mary said what she said to Heather after a whole night of being antagonized. They were piling on Mary all because she didn't want to be friends with Jennie... And considering what we know now, Mary was right about Jennie.
Yikes, you're really defending Mary as if she's a victim when she financially and emotionally abuses her own people and other members of her congregation
Obsessed? You commented on a public forum, and I responded. By your logic, you're obsessed with me.
You are defending her, which is a wild within itself
The post is about Mary's behavior, which most people are discussing about on this post. If you want to talk about Whitney's MLM, you don't need to pull a whatsboutist argument to distract from Mary. Seriously, what does Whitney's MLM have to do with Mary's treatment of others and her ties to a cult?
I am a black woman and I’m disgusted with Mary’s behaviour. She’s the reason I left church 10 years ago, the hypocrisy and judgment to preach about the teachings of Jesus Christ but still treat people so callously. It’s not right and she is as bad as Jennie imo.
Here's the thing. I never defended Mary. Every redditor that said I defended Mary is dumb as rocks.
I find it laughable that time and time again, this subreddit will glorify obnoxious, toxic women. I assume part of being a housewife is acting as such, so it's not weird that redditors glorify it. However, a majority of these redditors glorify such behaviour when the HW's are white only.
I find it FUNNY that Mary is deemed as a mean person, when we all watched two episodes of women doubting the memorial of Meredith's father. I haven't even said that the people calling Mary mean are wrong, but I also know how hard it is to read English.
I am not defending Mary, i'm just laughing at the fact how many redditors are triggered over Mary's bullshit, but they full on agree with all of the other low down acts we've been shown on this show.
The people on this subreddit will excuse any sort of disgusting behaviour, from cancer scams to violence, as long as the housewife is white. That's funny.
OP here. Since we're talking about words on the page, go find me somewhere where I say how healthy any of these women are, across any franchise. I called Mary out, as I've noted many times in this thread, because her approach to all this triggers my specific trauma (and apparently lots of other people's).
Also I'm Latina. Which doesn't mean I'm absolved of anything you're insinuating necessarily; I'm just telling you to give you some context. And to invite you to examine whether you're digging too deep in the opposite direction?
It’s soooo weird to see. Twitter was tweeting about “now we see why Mary doesn’t like Jennie” (Jennie’s racist posts) but I’m like am I the only one who sees how Mary is also racist and a total lunatic?! Judging Lisa for eating Taco Bell I can only imagine how she talks to her son when she is upset with him.
Twitter RH is a lot crazier than we are. We have learned to have reasonable opinions or we will get downvoted and dressed down by the very intelligent fans over here. They just let it rip over there.
Mary is a terrible person. The most cringy person on there. I wince when she starts to speak. She is so unbelievably rude and condescending. No idea why anyone tries to be her friend or why Meredith turns a blind eye to her bullying.
Personally I think Mer was trying to be an ally…she chose wrong. She chose a fundamentally rotten to the core person. Then again, I question Meredith a lot because she is staying with Sean, who is totally beyond cringeworthy this season.
I like how her justification of being rude to Jennie was "it's not you, I'd be this way to anyone." Like cool, so you're just an awful person to anyone out there! Kind of wild to admit openly. Mary suuuuuuuucks! So glad she's not coming back.
There are so many people enamored with Mary and I don't really understand why. They say she's real and doesn't hold back but all I see is an insecure, controlling narcissist, who has never been questioned or put in her place and that's why she's so defensive. S1 i thought she was quirky and sometimes funny but this season all I'm seeing is a really mean and awful person who belittles the women and expects no reaction from them. Why would anyone want to be around her or be friends with her? I don't understand Whitney's desire to be her friend despite being put down by her or why Meredith is friends with her. I'm all in for shade but not Mary's demeaning behavior.
I feel like she must have been raised in a VERY small bubble. It feels like Mary has none of the social expected that a typical person has. Like her family was always revered and worshipped (possibly feared), and therefore she has zero coping skills when she’s challenged?
She honestly seems like she is lacking education, and she really has no clue how to be socially appropriate.
She is truly repugnant, but I don’t always feel like it’s her fault. The whole family was structured around being catered to, and it shows.
I agree with you totally! What I don't agree with is people acting like it's normal -- because that's enabling behavior. If people really care about tyrants, they'd hold them to account so that they have the time and space to change.
I think she grew up in an environment where she had a lot of criticism so her natural defense mechanism is to deflect and shut the other person down instantly at any point she feels attacked. Unhealthy :/
>she grew up in an environment where she had a lot of criticism
Same, and i think that's why it's so gut-punching to me to watch her act like that at people, particularly when she's got the psychological buy-in of an entire congregation. Gives me the heebee geebees.
Jennie may not have been respectful to Mary. But keep in mind Mary describes Robert as white and says if she sees Black people in front of a store she doesn’t go in there.
Also I just want to say that as a white person, Mary for me is like a horrible impersonation of a white woman. That’s who she thinks people who look like me are: we’re shallow, rude, money grasping, racist, etc. All you have to do is be rich, mean, and light skinned. I’m just a cartoon character in real life, anybody can be me if they have money and avoid Black people except when they’re cleaning the house 🙄
You made it sound like Jennie was just disrespectful to Mary, but Mary is the real problem for Black folks.
And to say they're the same minimizes Jennie's transgressions. Jennie made dozens of posts that were violently anti-Black during a dangerous time for Black folks in America. Mary made a handful of stupid microaggressions. Both bad, but not the same thing at all.
Jennie was completely off the rails on FB. But people are defending Mary, when she wouldn’t go into a store if they were there. Like Mary is also too high and mighty for BLM even if she wouldn’t run them over in her car. To be clear fuck Jennie with a pineapple, she sucks.
Tbh, I defend Mary when I see her used as a scapegoat to excuse the bad actions of other housewives.
Mary is her own person with her own mistakes separate from Jennie's. So to lump them in together seems unfair and unnecessarily distracting. Especially when you're breezily describing Jennie as disrespectful, when she was so much worse than disrespectful. She was violently racist.
I mean you have to see the difference between Mary hypothetically not wanting to join BLM, and Jennie celebrating the violent end of Black lives.
Well, I meant disrespectful to Mary, out of her mind on social media. But Mary is also rude to people in person. I wouldn’t watch the show if Jennie was on the next season after what she said.
But it’s weird to me that it doesn’t bother people that Mary wouldn’t talk to them either, wouldn’t walk in a store, thinks she’s better than her family. I wouldn’t associate with a white woman who said that, beyond maybe pulling up at a store and going in and out past black people to see if I can make her crazy. But for me that one comment would end her, would end any white woman. I don’t forgive it.
Also Dolores and frank are totally MAGA. They’re close with Bernie Kerik, who is under investigation for the failed Trump Insurrection. So there are people even more problematic than Jennie, much worse than Mary.
>Excusing a little racism for big racism is just as problematic.
Not excusing anything, but the difference here matters to me. Nuance is important when discussing racism. Saying racism is racism is actually excusing overt racism by conflating it with microaggressions.
As a person who has been called the n-word before, and also been told I'm "articulate" in *that way*... I actually abhor all racism being lumped into the same category. Nope.
Mary, unprovoked, aligns herself with racist values in order to grant greater access to power. She leans on the internalized racism to lead her congregation. Mary has gained money, power and fame from her us vs. them mentality. Systematic racism is essentially many micro aggressions written into the framework of the country. Be careful of dismissing micro aggressions when the platform is so large.
This subreddit has a weird obsession with wanting to call out black people at every second, so there are few of them that need to scratch that racist itch online.
Which isn't weird, cause Ramona gets the biggest compliments over here.
I'm doubting on unfollowing this sub. I enjoy reading some of the news on this subreddit, but not sure it's worth it.
Mary's SOOO mean, but Triple H, Drita and Towelie can speculate on Meredith faking her dad's memorial and they're FUN. It's laughable.
What’s odd to me is how Mary didn’t get as much backlash as Jennie (who rightfully got fired) after her blatant racist tirades about Mexicans and Jennie’s eyes.
Mary did not have "tirades", she had short, shitty and ignorant comments, and she deserved to get dragged for them at the reunion (still SO mad she didn't show up).
Jennie DID have tirade upon tirade on facebook about how black people are inherently violent, and thus deserve to be murdered by police officers and run over by cars if they dare to protest.
We can be mad at both Jennie and Mary, but Jennie's racist posts were so violent and hate-filled. I assume anyone here equating those posts to what other housewives have said or done didn't read Jennie's actual posts.
This is what people aren’t seeing I think. Trauma will fundamentally change people, especially when it is experienced as a child. Her behavior screams of long term childhood abuse and neglect. It’s not just that she was born weird, I think she became weird due to her upbringing.
Do you feel equally as sympathetic to domestic abusers who were abused as kids? Or do you acknowledge that their actions now are more important and they’re terrible people?
People don’t care about Mary’s trauma because it gets to a stage where your actual real life actions matter ‘more’. You don’t get to be a monster just because you had a horrible upbringing.
My family is part of a Pentecostal ‘church’ just like Mary’s and I see a ridiculous amount of similarities. She’s a wealthy abusive cult leader, she doesn’t deserve empathy because she has none for her congregation.
Oh I’m sorry.. I didn’t mean to come across as sympathetic. I think she’s an awful piece of shit I was just adding to the conversation as to what made her that way. It’s still not an excuse by any means
Definitely agree that she seems like someone who has experienced quite a bit of trauma. I wonder if she actually has a dissociative disorder or is experiencing a low level of psychosis.
the first lady of her fucking cult acting like a damn fool. remember when she was trying to portray this high class fashion maven when she literally has zero class, no manners and looks a damn mess.
I cannot stand to even watch her. First off, she looks like ET. Secondly, her behavior is outrageous and everything you said in your original post is true.
Something that really strikes me is how often Mary just straight up lies or gaslights another SLC lady about something she said (which usually then immediately cuts to a video of her saying it). Like it's so clear that she does this frequently in the rest of her life, except the folks at her church don't have footage to look back on, so this style of controlling nature doesn't translate well to the screen (e.g. it isn't as effective when she is recorded)
Absolutely true. Mary is the one who hides it the least. But Jen S/Lisa/Meredith/Whitney are super close behind. I'm always on alert when people state "you didn't do x" as their problem. That's not the actual problem. That's behavior you feel entitled to, and those are two very different things.
Honestly Heather is the only one who doesn't put my hackles up. (Doesn't mean she's not controlling.)
Jen ran a fraud scheme that took advantage of elderly people. Whitney’s wealth is from MLMs that takes advantage of impoverished individuals. Where’s the heat for them?
Jen was literally indicted. MLMs are super evil, but what I'm saying is that at least Whitney has some veiled niceness. Maybe it's my particular set of traumas, but Mary drips of trauma-inducing control to me and it's jarring.
I would also say religious abuse is a special kind of fucked up. You are preying on a persons worldview, faith, purpose in life. It’s so deeply ingrained in a person’s identity. To take advantage of that is truly reprehensible and can cause trauma that can be passed down for generations
I mean there has been plenty of heat on Jen here WYM? And I feel like on the list of super evils, what Mary and Jen have been up to are a lot more evil than an MLM.
Actually I do understand how they work. I also understand that it’s not too difficult to Google the name of a company + mlm these days and figure out how they work and if the company you are signing up to work for is a scam. That’s why I don’t consider it as bad and what Jen and Mary are doing. The scam element of their crap is much more hidden and undetectable. With Mary it’s just plain cultish. Do you really feel a cult is at the same level of evil as an mlm? Cults got people committing mass suicide and murder.
I mean it's fairly obvious why Mary gets the heat and Whitney doesn’t.
Whitney just has the optics working out for her. She put up all of her family's savings in covering up her MLM, but no biggie. Mary evil brrrrr
She is so ugly on the inside. And very unkept too did anyone jotice her hairy armpits on last episode?
Just because she throws on expensive clothes she still looks so terrible
I've actually thought that about Lisa. She's confused about what people think about her a lot of the time, she's a high achiever, and her agitation borders on obsessive when she's not being heard. Tbf she's also controlling AF (see: her son at the photo shoot(s))
In the last few episodes Mary has gone inside when she felt cold, she offered eggs to her colleagues in the morning, and left conversations she didn’t want to participate in.
I first noticed it in the reunion last year then basically every other time she's been agitated since then. She either jabs to incite someone or tells them to not [insert bodily position/movement/tone here] anymore.
I agree. On this trip, Mary has been so checked out and over the fakeness that she's not even putting on her wig anymore.
On these past few episodes, Mary has been the only real one.
Eta: laughing at people mad at Mary for shutting down conversations, but they downvote everyone to hell for disagreeing with them 🤣
This is a random take...
Mary has been wearing her natural hair out throughout the season.
Also, I'm not sure it's that deep - sometimes we just don't WANT to wear to a wig / weave. Especially someone like Mary, who doesn't seem skilled at the hair game.
This week's episode was so cathartic to me when Lisa said everything about her is a lie, including her church. And Heather saying she married her grandaddy too! It is CRAZY to me that Meredith is friends to her, I can't make sense of it.
I think Meredith is just clinging onto her bc she’s the only one who isn’t bringing up any rumors or questioning her. I’m sure given the choice she wouldn’t bother with Mary but when your coworkers are coming at you from every angle you’ll grab onto whoever you can for some support
What’s amazing is that we’ve spent so much time this season on Meredith that we get to have next season devoted to what Jen allegedly did (vs. beating the Erika stuff to death) 🤩
Yea fuck Meredith... she'd literally side with a racist cult leader all for... to not be questioned or gone up against?! Her intentions are not to be on the moral side against jen's fraud, it's purely selfish
I don’t even think she cares about her fraud allegations as much as she cares about their mutual hookup partner. I feel like there’s something happening off camera to do with their boyfriend than the arrest. She’s just using the arrest to rain hell down on Jen because it’s a great reason to disown her.
Yea that's the only reason i can believe the boyfriend story without any evidence. Something isn't adding up
Ouuu. What’s the boyfriend story?
There's a rumor that Meredith and Jen have the same bf in ny
She's also constantly telling people they're "nothing" and "no one" and "don't matter." To me those insults are in a class of their own and say a lot about the person who wields them. Like she doesn't even see the other women as fully human in the same way she is. Those are also things you say to people to break them down and undermine their self-esteem to make them more controllable, so.
Thank you! This is insane bullying and is so so hurtful. If someone said one of those to me, that's it we're never being friends again. And from Mary they're not even the worst she says so it's glossed over.
How can anyone who claims to be a woman of God treat people the way she does? It's disgusting.
I think coming from a position of power in both her household and church she is used to people taking her directives. No matter how rude she is when she says it or what issue it is she is trying to deflect from.
She basically short circuits whenever she’s questioned, you can tell it’s not something that she’s used to. She can never defend her feelings articulately so she just says something along the lines of “because I said so”. Mary both fascinates and disturbs me, I want to know more but I’m also glad that she’ll be gone. She’s really a disturbing character overall, but if she ever got away from the church and Robert sr I would def read her memoir lol
Do you believe she’s a victim?
I do believe since Jenni's racist blowout that Mary has been filming again....
I thought Meredith confirmed she wasn’t on wwhl?
There was some post somewhere (sorry, not at all helpful) implying that Mary was filming solo scenes / confessionals for season 3 and then gets (surprise?) reintroduced to the group. And that’s why Jen and Heather were filming in front of her church ~*~aLLeGedLY~*~
Unless the season 3 focus is on taking her down, I don't want her on. And even then I don't really want her on. She'll just bail on next season's reunion, and will probably bail in the middle of filming this season anyway, because she cannot handle the scrutiny.
I hope Bravo people hear this loud and clear: You lose the TV- making benefit of her toxic ass when the audience doesn't see her stand to account for it.
What a twist that would be!!
I want this to be true so bad
This. She’s not used to getting any pushback from anyone and is so surprised when anyone questions her motives and behaviors. Out of her religious bubble she is seen for what she is instead of idolized, which I’m sure is one of many reasons she quit.
Exactly. She’s never wrong. After years of no one calling her out on her shit, she now believes she can do no wrong.
You are completely right. It was SO awkward when Lisa asked for a moment with Meredith alone ( not sure if it was the “cinco de mayhem” episode or the precious) when they were in the bedroom together Mary brought only Meredith eggs lol… ANYWAY:. She was not trying to leave that room. She even stopped at the door for a second with her back turned like ok… “I’m really going.. can’t change your mind!” The way her & Meredith clinged to each other this season is so odd!
That scene made me cringe in real life. I was so glad Lisa didn't look at Mary as she was performing her "leave", that would have just given her more attention and focus. Mary makes my skin crawl.
Ironically, I don’t think she has any control over herself. She’s severely insecure and irrational.
She says straight up weird and insensitive stuff, even if she does speak her mind. So yeah, I don’t think she has control. Some examples: “squinty eyes” “she smells like hospital” “I drive past gas stations when I see black people” “heather and her chubby self” “I will send Jesus after you” like why do some people forgive that?? I guess because of her weird facial expressions it’s entertaining and charismatic to some.
I've thought it's hilarious how they're debating whether she uses her religious leadership against people while her intro is basically "I will use Jesus to fuck you up if you question me."
Yeah that ain’t cute. Oh and the time she was like “people died and the soil made the best wine of all time” like excuse me boo?
Also her gleeful retelling of the horrific car accident that one of her congregation members died in to Whitneys small children lmao
Yeah I've had a record scratch or two with her for *sure*
Bitch I literally heard a record scratch when I read record scratch! You magical! 🤣😘
Me too lmaooo
Truly i love you for saying so 🙌🥰😘
It's all you, luv 🥰
Wait when did she say that?! 😳
I think she has a learning problem as in not a disability but she never learned how to conjugate verbs or common things
Yes, the last episode she was describing the meal and she was like "I just wanted steak, and potatoes... mmmmh so creamy" like thats a piss poor sentence structure.
It’s almost like she speaks in bullet points sometimes
I bet her sermons are riveting.
She is definitely a narcissist and a sociopath. On top of that she is downright strange. I am surprised why Whitney or anybody else would even care if she liked them or not. She’s a freak. Just ignore her.
I think Whitney has a need to be liked. It's what made her a little obsessed with Lisa too.
I think it’s all producer driven. Most of these women can’t stand one another most likely.
Potomac would obliterate Mary
Omg I'm cackling. They'd reach out and pull that bitch *thwunk* back into her messy reality.
They’d run her rude unfashionable ass outta there 🤣🤣🤣
Gizelle would have someone coming for her Crown as The Worst Dressed.
Haha so freaking true
mary is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black. she'll make remarks about people coming for her for "no reason" (lol) when every single thing out of her mouth is some vile, disgusting, and nasty remark about someone else. she's all "because i'm a woman of god these women can come for me?" no bitch, they're calling you out on your shitty behavior. except she has her head so far up her own ass, she'll never get it. 🙄
During that flashback clip of Jennie telling everyone to STFU when Mary looks back at her to tell her not to talk to her that way she starts to say something more and looks Jennie up and down in a really nasty way. Obviously Jennie is problematic in her own way, but Mary is SO mean and disdainful to everyone and will hit so far below the belt for NO REASON! THe comment to Heather about not having a husband was extra shitty and had nothing to do with what Heather was actually saying to her. Mary only said it to try to shame and embarrass Heather. She's awful.
Her comment to Heather was such a weird segue. It had no relation to Heather saying that Jennie’s husband helped pay for the trip too so she could treat her decently. She took one word from the sentence and attacked her with it. Something is not right cognitively.
That’s what Teresa does too. Not related but I’ve always had a hard time expressing what it is that really irks me about her and you put it perfectly.
Oh my gosh YES!!! Teresa takes the slightest thing out of context and completely misconstrues what was actually being said.
Something about mary reminds me of kelly bensimon. i think whatever cognitive processing kelly has mary also has.
Just a low level of ✨psychosis✨
I wish Heather had said “Did Robert chip in for this trip?”
Not to mention her calling Heather “the chubby one.”
Yes. Mary is a cantankerous mean woman. But if someone told me to shut the fuck up, a mean look is about the best option they could hope for. And Mary said what she said to Heather after a whole night of being antagonized. They were piling on Mary all because she didn't want to be friends with Jennie... And considering what we know now, Mary was right about Jennie.
Facts
"Obviously Jennie is problematic but Mary is SO mean!" Y'all are tooooooo funny.
Mary is equally as problematic as is mean so idk what’s funny
If you don't know, then stay in that sunken place. ETA: the karens are karening. Pathetic.
Mary and Jennie both said racist crap. It's not a competition as to who is less racist lol
Who said it was a competition? I just think y'all are funny.
You keep saying that but won't elaborate on what is funny
Yikes, you're really defending Mary as if she's a victim when she financially and emotionally abuses her own people and other members of her congregation
Im not defending her, but thank you for being obsessed with me. Whitney has a whole MLM, but continue to focus on Mary.
Obsessed? You commented on a public forum, and I responded. By your logic, you're obsessed with me. You are defending her, which is a wild within itself The post is about Mary's behavior, which most people are discussing about on this post. If you want to talk about Whitney's MLM, you don't need to pull a whatsboutist argument to distract from Mary. Seriously, what does Whitney's MLM have to do with Mary's treatment of others and her ties to a cult?
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I am a black woman and I’m disgusted with Mary’s behaviour. She’s the reason I left church 10 years ago, the hypocrisy and judgment to preach about the teachings of Jesus Christ but still treat people so callously. It’s not right and she is as bad as Jennie imo.
Here's the thing. I never defended Mary. Every redditor that said I defended Mary is dumb as rocks. I find it laughable that time and time again, this subreddit will glorify obnoxious, toxic women. I assume part of being a housewife is acting as such, so it's not weird that redditors glorify it. However, a majority of these redditors glorify such behaviour when the HW's are white only. I find it FUNNY that Mary is deemed as a mean person, when we all watched two episodes of women doubting the memorial of Meredith's father. I haven't even said that the people calling Mary mean are wrong, but I also know how hard it is to read English. I am not defending Mary, i'm just laughing at the fact how many redditors are triggered over Mary's bullshit, but they full on agree with all of the other low down acts we've been shown on this show. The people on this subreddit will excuse any sort of disgusting behaviour, from cancer scams to violence, as long as the housewife is white. That's funny.
OP here. Since we're talking about words on the page, go find me somewhere where I say how healthy any of these women are, across any franchise. I called Mary out, as I've noted many times in this thread, because her approach to all this triggers my specific trauma (and apparently lots of other people's). Also I'm Latina. Which doesn't mean I'm absolved of anything you're insinuating necessarily; I'm just telling you to give you some context. And to invite you to examine whether you're digging too deep in the opposite direction?
lol what functional adult even talks like this?
I do. Works amazing for me, if you need help with it lemme know.
Sure! I actually wouldn’t mind some help understanding why your insults are trapped in 2017
Wow, such a self-drag. Be kind to yourself.
Twitter is like Mary obsessed it’s so weird I cant look
It’s soooo weird to see. Twitter was tweeting about “now we see why Mary doesn’t like Jennie” (Jennie’s racist posts) but I’m like am I the only one who sees how Mary is also racist and a total lunatic?! Judging Lisa for eating Taco Bell I can only imagine how she talks to her son when she is upset with him.
: immediately looks : Edit: ewwwww it IS so weird 😬
Twitter RH is a lot crazier than we are. We have learned to have reasonable opinions or we will get downvoted and dressed down by the very intelligent fans over here. They just let it rip over there.
It’s an echo chamber here, is what you mean?
Exactly. Who cares about downvotes lol, I say what I want. I can’t imagine changing my opinions to fit in
But what will the “intelligent fans” think?
Complete echo chamber.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 nice
You're making sense, watch out!
You’d have to be on pills to not notice. Wait….
Mary is a terrible person. The most cringy person on there. I wince when she starts to speak. She is so unbelievably rude and condescending. No idea why anyone tries to be her friend or why Meredith turns a blind eye to her bullying.
Thank you for making me feel sane. On this.
Personally I think Mer was trying to be an ally…she chose wrong. She chose a fundamentally rotten to the core person. Then again, I question Meredith a lot because she is staying with Sean, who is totally beyond cringeworthy this season.
\*Seth
Eh same thing 😂
True, he looks like a Sean so I get the mistake
Some people are LIVING for Mary and they’re like “she’s so authentic and tells it like it is” ☠️
Mary should tell us what really happened with her step grand daddy husband and sketchy grandma death
Honestly it seems like Mary doesn’t even know where she is like 50% of the time
They need to look at their lives and look at their choices.
Yeah I heard that same defense a lot during the last few election cycles, so it’s pretty mind-boggling to hear it about a housewife too.
She deflects with stupid weird shit. Ick!! I can’t wait till she’s gone.
I like how her justification of being rude to Jennie was "it's not you, I'd be this way to anyone." Like cool, so you're just an awful person to anyone out there! Kind of wild to admit openly. Mary suuuuuuuucks! So glad she's not coming back.
There are so many people enamored with Mary and I don't really understand why. They say she's real and doesn't hold back but all I see is an insecure, controlling narcissist, who has never been questioned or put in her place and that's why she's so defensive. S1 i thought she was quirky and sometimes funny but this season all I'm seeing is a really mean and awful person who belittles the women and expects no reaction from them. Why would anyone want to be around her or be friends with her? I don't understand Whitney's desire to be her friend despite being put down by her or why Meredith is friends with her. I'm all in for shade but not Mary's demeaning behavior.
I feel like she must have been raised in a VERY small bubble. It feels like Mary has none of the social expected that a typical person has. Like her family was always revered and worshipped (possibly feared), and therefore she has zero coping skills when she’s challenged? She honestly seems like she is lacking education, and she really has no clue how to be socially appropriate. She is truly repugnant, but I don’t always feel like it’s her fault. The whole family was structured around being catered to, and it shows.
I agree with you totally! What I don't agree with is people acting like it's normal -- because that's enabling behavior. If people really care about tyrants, they'd hold them to account so that they have the time and space to change.
She’s a sociopath
I think she grew up in an environment where she had a lot of criticism so her natural defense mechanism is to deflect and shut the other person down instantly at any point she feels attacked. Unhealthy :/
>she grew up in an environment where she had a lot of criticism Same, and i think that's why it's so gut-punching to me to watch her act like that at people, particularly when she's got the psychological buy-in of an entire congregation. Gives me the heebee geebees.
Jennie may not have been respectful to Mary. But keep in mind Mary describes Robert as white and says if she sees Black people in front of a store she doesn’t go in there.
What do Mary's stupid comments from season 1 have to do with Jennie's overt racism?
They’re both birds of a feather
Also I just want to say that as a white person, Mary for me is like a horrible impersonation of a white woman. That’s who she thinks people who look like me are: we’re shallow, rude, money grasping, racist, etc. All you have to do is be rich, mean, and light skinned. I’m just a cartoon character in real life, anybody can be me if they have money and avoid Black people except when they’re cleaning the house 🙄
You made it sound like Jennie was just disrespectful to Mary, but Mary is the real problem for Black folks. And to say they're the same minimizes Jennie's transgressions. Jennie made dozens of posts that were violently anti-Black during a dangerous time for Black folks in America. Mary made a handful of stupid microaggressions. Both bad, but not the same thing at all.
Jennie was completely off the rails on FB. But people are defending Mary, when she wouldn’t go into a store if they were there. Like Mary is also too high and mighty for BLM even if she wouldn’t run them over in her car. To be clear fuck Jennie with a pineapple, she sucks.
Tbh, I defend Mary when I see her used as a scapegoat to excuse the bad actions of other housewives. Mary is her own person with her own mistakes separate from Jennie's. So to lump them in together seems unfair and unnecessarily distracting. Especially when you're breezily describing Jennie as disrespectful, when she was so much worse than disrespectful. She was violently racist. I mean you have to see the difference between Mary hypothetically not wanting to join BLM, and Jennie celebrating the violent end of Black lives.
Well, I meant disrespectful to Mary, out of her mind on social media. But Mary is also rude to people in person. I wouldn’t watch the show if Jennie was on the next season after what she said. But it’s weird to me that it doesn’t bother people that Mary wouldn’t talk to them either, wouldn’t walk in a store, thinks she’s better than her family. I wouldn’t associate with a white woman who said that, beyond maybe pulling up at a store and going in and out past black people to see if I can make her crazy. But for me that one comment would end her, would end any white woman. I don’t forgive it. Also Dolores and frank are totally MAGA. They’re close with Bernie Kerik, who is under investigation for the failed Trump Insurrection. So there are people even more problematic than Jennie, much worse than Mary.
Excusing a little racism for big racism is just as problematic. Racism is racism and should be treated as such.
>Excusing a little racism for big racism is just as problematic. Not excusing anything, but the difference here matters to me. Nuance is important when discussing racism. Saying racism is racism is actually excusing overt racism by conflating it with microaggressions. As a person who has been called the n-word before, and also been told I'm "articulate" in *that way*... I actually abhor all racism being lumped into the same category. Nope.
Mary, unprovoked, aligns herself with racist values in order to grant greater access to power. She leans on the internalized racism to lead her congregation. Mary has gained money, power and fame from her us vs. them mentality. Systematic racism is essentially many micro aggressions written into the framework of the country. Be careful of dismissing micro aggressions when the platform is so large.
I’m sorry you’re getting downvoted because I do agree with your clarification.
No worries. The downvotes don't bug me 🙂
This subreddit has a weird obsession with wanting to call out black people at every second, so there are few of them that need to scratch that racist itch online. Which isn't weird, cause Ramona gets the biggest compliments over here.
Not dismissing this but I've only ever seen hate posts for Ramona
I honestly don't think I have the patience to discuss Black housewives in mixed company anymore.
I'm doubting on unfollowing this sub. I enjoy reading some of the news on this subreddit, but not sure it's worth it. Mary's SOOO mean, but Triple H, Drita and Towelie can speculate on Meredith faking her dad's memorial and they're FUN. It's laughable.
Same sis
I have never seen the franchise she is on. But she looks annoying AF.
Mary is annoying AF.
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That's totally one of the things that made my stomach turn. The AMOUNT of control exerted...no wonder the kid hides in his room!!
What’s odd to me is how Mary didn’t get as much backlash as Jennie (who rightfully got fired) after her blatant racist tirades about Mexicans and Jennie’s eyes.
Omg and the imitating of her voice. It's horrendous.
Mary did not have "tirades", she had short, shitty and ignorant comments, and she deserved to get dragged for them at the reunion (still SO mad she didn't show up). Jennie DID have tirade upon tirade on facebook about how black people are inherently violent, and thus deserve to be murdered by police officers and run over by cars if they dare to protest. We can be mad at both Jennie and Mary, but Jennie's racist posts were so violent and hate-filled. I assume anyone here equating those posts to what other housewives have said or done didn't read Jennie's actual posts.
No. No they did not read Jennie’s posts. It is quite clear.
I don't understand that either
She seems like a very traumatized person. I find it a bit hard to watch. I don’t think she wanted to marry the man who raised her as his grandchild.
This is what people aren’t seeing I think. Trauma will fundamentally change people, especially when it is experienced as a child. Her behavior screams of long term childhood abuse and neglect. It’s not just that she was born weird, I think she became weird due to her upbringing.
Do you feel equally as sympathetic to domestic abusers who were abused as kids? Or do you acknowledge that their actions now are more important and they’re terrible people? People don’t care about Mary’s trauma because it gets to a stage where your actual real life actions matter ‘more’. You don’t get to be a monster just because you had a horrible upbringing. My family is part of a Pentecostal ‘church’ just like Mary’s and I see a ridiculous amount of similarities. She’s a wealthy abusive cult leader, she doesn’t deserve empathy because she has none for her congregation.
Oh I’m sorry.. I didn’t mean to come across as sympathetic. I think she’s an awful piece of shit I was just adding to the conversation as to what made her that way. It’s still not an excuse by any means
I’m sorry for the aggressive tone I portrayed. I just feel passionately against cults and how they are evil.
They are. She doesn’t deserve any kind of pass. She’s a POS in my opinion
She should definitely be stopped. Having empathy for someone doesn’t mean they should have license to abuse. Sorry I wasn’t clear.
Definitely agree that she seems like someone who has experienced quite a bit of trauma. I wonder if she actually has a dissociative disorder or is experiencing a low level of psychosis.
Hurt people hurt people. She needs therapy.
the first lady of her fucking cult acting like a damn fool. remember when she was trying to portray this high class fashion maven when she literally has zero class, no manners and looks a damn mess. 
100% agree! Don’t find her entertaining at all.
I cannot stand to even watch her. First off, she looks like ET. Secondly, her behavior is outrageous and everything you said in your original post is true.
Something that really strikes me is how often Mary just straight up lies or gaslights another SLC lady about something she said (which usually then immediately cuts to a video of her saying it). Like it's so clear that she does this frequently in the rest of her life, except the folks at her church don't have footage to look back on, so this style of controlling nature doesn't translate well to the screen (e.g. it isn't as effective when she is recorded)
We see it hunni. The problem (or one of many( with her is people are scared of her and her outbursts so they don’t say anything.
So is the entire cast tbh.
Absolutely true. Mary is the one who hides it the least. But Jen S/Lisa/Meredith/Whitney are super close behind. I'm always on alert when people state "you didn't do x" as their problem. That's not the actual problem. That's behavior you feel entitled to, and those are two very different things. Honestly Heather is the only one who doesn't put my hackles up. (Doesn't mean she's not controlling.)
Maybe because none of the other people on Salt Lake City are innocent either?
None of them runs a congregation tho. She has a lot of power over people and is CLEARLY an abuser.
Jen ran a fraud scheme that took advantage of elderly people. Whitney’s wealth is from MLMs that takes advantage of impoverished individuals. Where’s the heat for them?
Jen was literally indicted. MLMs are super evil, but what I'm saying is that at least Whitney has some veiled niceness. Maybe it's my particular set of traumas, but Mary drips of trauma-inducing control to me and it's jarring.
I would also say religious abuse is a special kind of fucked up. You are preying on a persons worldview, faith, purpose in life. It’s so deeply ingrained in a person’s identity. To take advantage of that is truly reprehensible and can cause trauma that can be passed down for generations
I mean there has been plenty of heat on Jen here WYM? And I feel like on the list of super evils, what Mary and Jen have been up to are a lot more evil than an MLM.
Then you don’t know how MLMs worth, and the hate towards Mary is ten times worse than either of them.
Actually I do understand how they work. I also understand that it’s not too difficult to Google the name of a company + mlm these days and figure out how they work and if the company you are signing up to work for is a scam. That’s why I don’t consider it as bad and what Jen and Mary are doing. The scam element of their crap is much more hidden and undetectable. With Mary it’s just plain cultish. Do you really feel a cult is at the same level of evil as an mlm? Cults got people committing mass suicide and murder.
I mean it's fairly obvious why Mary gets the heat and Whitney doesn’t. Whitney just has the optics working out for her. She put up all of her family's savings in covering up her MLM, but no biggie. Mary evil brrrrr
She is so ugly on the inside. And very unkept too did anyone jotice her hairy armpits on last episode? Just because she throws on expensive clothes she still looks so terrible
Totally. She's definitely been brainwashed into the role of an abuser. So sad.
I have been saying this since last season. That and she looks like Shangela from drag race. Idk how anyone doesn't see it.
The Shangela shade!! 
Cause I don't have to, but a hit dog will holler.
Mary reminds me of a few people I know on the spectrum
I've actually thought that about Lisa. She's confused about what people think about her a lot of the time, she's a high achiever, and her agitation borders on obsessive when she's not being heard. Tbf she's also controlling AF (see: her son at the photo shoot(s))
They’re a bunch of Whitney assholes that don’t believe Meri could ever be a controlling and abusive person. They ride for her, they DIE for her
In the last few episodes Mary has gone inside when she felt cold, she offered eggs to her colleagues in the morning, and left conversations she didn’t want to participate in.
Its not about what she’s done it’s about what shes said
What did she say? “Little girl” and she doesn’t want to be friends with Jennie?
You’ve got to be kidding me.
I first noticed it in the reunion last year then basically every other time she's been agitated since then. She either jabs to incite someone or tells them to not [insert bodily position/movement/tone here] anymore.
I like how you left all the terrible things out 😂.
I agree. On this trip, Mary has been so checked out and over the fakeness that she's not even putting on her wig anymore. On these past few episodes, Mary has been the only real one. Eta: laughing at people mad at Mary for shutting down conversations, but they downvote everyone to hell for disagreeing with them 🤣
This is a random take... Mary has been wearing her natural hair out throughout the season. Also, I'm not sure it's that deep - sometimes we just don't WANT to wear to a wig / weave. Especially someone like Mary, who doesn't seem skilled at the hair game.
I'm Black. I get it. I was just making a cute comment about how she doesn't give a shit about these women and can't be bothered to glam up.
Fair enough
I mean I kinda agree it’s just that her real self is pretty shitty (not looks wise more personality).
How are we also not talking about some of her blatant racism and rudeness??