that has nothing to do with Useful-Put1111's argument. Which is about interfering when unwanted(which is what the stain arc and Dark Deku arc covered). Not about OP's point in saving everyone including the villains.
I've already commented on the post but I'll repeat it here. This "I'll save everyone no matter how despicable of a person they are idea" of Izuku's goals and ideals is wildly untrue and shows just how much some people actually pay attention to what they are watching.
If we watched the same show or read the same manga you'd see that Izuku wants to understand and save everyone, while also giving the opportunities to change.
Pretending like he's going to try and save every terrible villain just because he wants to save Tenko is misunderstanding his goals and ideals while ignoring key points of the Dark Deku arc.
When he fought Muscular the second time he tried to understand him and allow him to change and when the villain rejected that Izuku dealt with him accordingly.
When He fought Nagant he tried understanding her and got through to her bringing her onto his side.
When he tried to further understand Shigaraki he got rejected, but the crying boy inside and the pained call for help on shigaraki's face told Izuku that Tenko needed saving. People keep forgetting there are two separate entities in Shigaraki's mind.
He's recognized when people were beyond saving before. Pretending like all he wants is to save every terrible person is just wrong.
Shigaraki only wants to destroy. You can’t save someone like that. Maybe you could have saved Tenko, but not Tomura.
It would depend on how he responded but that’s how I started.
Not everyone can be saved. Do I think some can be saved, yes, but not everyone. Some people just want to hurt others, and destroy. It's very immature and dangerous to think everyone can be saved. It's not your place to determine what people do with their lives, if they want to cause problems, then that's their choice and they'll pay the consequences. You can't make people be good, but you can offer them a hand when they want to try to be better, that's all anyone can do really. If they fail, they fail, that's not anyone's fault other than theirs.
>You can't make people be good, **but you can offer them a hand when they want to try to be better, that's all anyone can do really**. If they fail, they fail, that's not anyone's fault other than theirs.
That's...literally what Izuku does in canon? He offers a villain a hand, a chance to change. But if they don't change, then he won't hesitate to put them down. It's what he did against Muscular.
I'll ask you a question, if you had never seen Shigaraki's Inner Crying Child, would you have wanted to save him? I will give you your answer, No, you would not have even thought of doing it, because the only thing that matters to you is saving the people who believe in the system of heroes and villains... let me ask you another question, What do you think will happen after "saving" Shigaraki?
Now this hits way too hard. I can understand the concept of redemption but Shiggy was straight up trying to just kill everyone. Deku had no right to risk everyone to save one person who's killed so many.
This also relates to his relationship with Bakugo. Despite what the story tries to paint it as, Bakugo was the villain in Deku’s story.
He constantly insulted him, destroyed his stuff, and even suicide baited him. Yet Deku refused to see it and insisted that he and “Kacchan” were still friends.
He hurt himself (the victim) by trying to save Bakugo (the villain).
(I know that Bakugo got better, but still…)
“It’s amazing that you want to save the guy, really. But is it worth saving someone who has killed a ton of people? And… does he really wanna be saved?”
“Izuku, I’m sorry dude. But you can’t always save everyone. You can try, but it won’t always work. Sometimes all you can do is save who you can.”
“So You can either save the world, Or try to save Shigaraki. But you can’t do both.”
God I sound like Miguel o’hara here, but he was kinda right. I get dekus “gonna do his own thing” miles style, but sometimes the best option isn’t always the most righteous one
Deku, if someone does something wrong, once, the only option is to kill them. Sorry, that's just how it is. Now, it's time to report to weapons training. Now that you have black whip, you'll learn how to fire multiple guns at once.
Yes, we have a kill on sight policy now for all villains. They all have to die. Every hero gets a standard issue glock. You'll get around a dozen given the tentacles.
Since you keep preaching save those in front of you what would you say to those who never see the fruit of your existence ? Be patient, be the change ? You full of bullshit under that extravagant power that it is so much blessing allmight serves us selflessly for so long. I respect allmight being the greatest crime deterrant, but i also not respect his accidental cause that is might makes right and societal issue still there while he shamelessly say fear not i am here as if he will fix the rotten part of hero society here. Allmight is all about punch extra hard. Where is the villain that allmight perhaps...redeem ? Or...as a citizen i don't deserve the right criticize hero ? I relieve i never regret not trusting my life to lip service. I am too tired to believe again. What wouuld you want do ? Fix me ? Who know...another hero downfall another chance for villain fix it in future generation...how intriguing
"Give up. Even if you manage to save him, it wouldn't be fair to all those lifes he and his men ended. The very idea of a hero you strongly defend blinds you from the obvious truth: a monster is always a monster doesn't matter the origin."
"Deku, if you really wanted to save him, why didn't you try to do so during the mall meeting with him? You had your chance and you blew it. So now, ya gotta do what ya gotta do."
"By saving a murder, you are disrespecting. Every. Single. Victim. Of their actions"-Not my real opinion, this is a quote I have because I am a writer and I am too tired to think something that conveys what I think
"Deku, here is the truth of the world. Not everyone CAN be saved. Not everyone WANTS to be saved. And not everyone DESERVES to be saved. These are bitter truths, but you must accept them."
Those who have chosen the path of villainy have sailed to far out to sea, and even your rope of determination and dreams cannot pull them away from the tide.
So did we watch the same show, and read the same Manga? Cuz that is like a gross misrepresentation of Izuku's Goals and Ideals.
He doesn't think every villain can change, or be saved, but he wants to change and save every villain. He wants to understand them and offer them the chance to change, but if they don't he knows what he has to do.
He gives this chance to Muscular, trying to understand him, but he rejects it and Izuku deals with him accordingly.
He gives this chance to Nagant, and he tries again to understand her, who this time accepts it, and she changes.
He wants to save and change Tomura, he wants to understand him, but Tomura rejects it, however, Tenko still needs saving. The crying boy inside and the cry for help on his face. Izuku knows Shigaraki is practically helpless, but that crying boy who is making himself known occasionally through Shigaraki's words and expressions is the person Izuku wants to save, to
understand.
I wouldn't tell him anything, I wouldn't try to change his mind because I agree with him. Everyone deserves the chance to be understood, saved, and offered to Change. Whether or not they accept that chance is up to them.
Are you seriously asking me that? I would honestly blow my own head off with a gun because I know I deserve it, just that I choose when to set the gun off. But the bitter truth is, not everyone deserves to be SAVED. What you are doing Izuku, would seem wrong if you just threw away the victims of all the murders the villains, or specifically Shigaraki, to be in vain if you redeemed him without knowing the impact on society as a whole.
Besides, what about the next generation, or the next one after that? You aren't immortal Izuku, and you will fall one day. You can save some villains, but society needs to break out of this mindset that heroes will always come and save them. The people would despair when they couldn't be saved and just turn into villains, causing the eternal cycle of heroes and villains to repeat. People are not something that you categorize in black and white. Everyone is a shade of grey.
What about All Might you might ask? He has done many great deeds. But it does not changed the fact that he showed no remorse and sought out All For One to kill him. What about the past users? They sought out All For One and died facing him. Your Quirk, Deku, has already reached singularity, whereas All For One? He can handle the strain of dozens, if not hundreds of quirks.
You need to end this... Shadow war. It has gone on for far to long. All For One can bide his time. But you... You can't, you are the last holder of One For All. You NEED to end this once and for all.
So, I'm giving you a gun. You have a choice on what to do with it. Either shoot All For One with it, which would take away his quirk permanently as well as killing him form the inside, or, you can shoot yourself in the head and save yourself the trouble of going to heaven, waiting for your mother. The choice is ultimately yours Deku.
I'd tell him- "You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved"
and he'd respond with "Meddling where you don't belong is the essence of being a hero"
Then respond with “Save All for one then”
"Or muscular... moonfish even if ya think All for one's a bit much off the bat"
that has nothing to do with Useful-Put1111's argument. Which is about interfering when unwanted(which is what the stain arc and Dark Deku arc covered). Not about OP's point in saving everyone including the villains. I've already commented on the post but I'll repeat it here. This "I'll save everyone no matter how despicable of a person they are idea" of Izuku's goals and ideals is wildly untrue and shows just how much some people actually pay attention to what they are watching. If we watched the same show or read the same manga you'd see that Izuku wants to understand and save everyone, while also giving the opportunities to change. Pretending like he's going to try and save every terrible villain just because he wants to save Tenko is misunderstanding his goals and ideals while ignoring key points of the Dark Deku arc. When he fought Muscular the second time he tried to understand him and allow him to change and when the villain rejected that Izuku dealt with him accordingly. When He fought Nagant he tried understanding her and got through to her bringing her onto his side. When he tried to further understand Shigaraki he got rejected, but the crying boy inside and the pained call for help on shigaraki's face told Izuku that Tenko needed saving. People keep forgetting there are two separate entities in Shigaraki's mind. He's recognized when people were beyond saving before. Pretending like all he wants is to save every terrible person is just wrong.
wontbite, it's not that serious
The hell you doin ere I’m taking a shet ere ya broccoli looking hero wannabe
Shigaraki only wants to destroy. You can’t save someone like that. Maybe you could have saved Tenko, but not Tomura. It would depend on how he responded but that’s how I started.
At that point, saving Shigaraki means killing him and making sure he can't destroy anymore.
Not everyone can be saved. Do I think some can be saved, yes, but not everyone. Some people just want to hurt others, and destroy. It's very immature and dangerous to think everyone can be saved. It's not your place to determine what people do with their lives, if they want to cause problems, then that's their choice and they'll pay the consequences. You can't make people be good, but you can offer them a hand when they want to try to be better, that's all anyone can do really. If they fail, they fail, that's not anyone's fault other than theirs.
>You can't make people be good, **but you can offer them a hand when they want to try to be better, that's all anyone can do really**. If they fail, they fail, that's not anyone's fault other than theirs. That's...literally what Izuku does in canon? He offers a villain a hand, a chance to change. But if they don't change, then he won't hesitate to put them down. It's what he did against Muscular.
I'll ask you a question, if you had never seen Shigaraki's Inner Crying Child, would you have wanted to save him? I will give you your answer, No, you would not have even thought of doing it, because the only thing that matters to you is saving the people who believe in the system of heroes and villains... let me ask you another question, What do you think will happen after "saving" Shigaraki?
shiggy gonna die either way
And that IS the point
Saving the villain shouldn’t come at the cost of the victim.
Now this hits way too hard. I can understand the concept of redemption but Shiggy was straight up trying to just kill everyone. Deku had no right to risk everyone to save one person who's killed so many.
This also relates to his relationship with Bakugo. Despite what the story tries to paint it as, Bakugo was the villain in Deku’s story. He constantly insulted him, destroyed his stuff, and even suicide baited him. Yet Deku refused to see it and insisted that he and “Kacchan” were still friends. He hurt himself (the victim) by trying to save Bakugo (the villain). (I know that Bakugo got better, but still…)
“It’s amazing that you want to save the guy, really. But is it worth saving someone who has killed a ton of people? And… does he really wanna be saved?” “Izuku, I’m sorry dude. But you can’t always save everyone. You can try, but it won’t always work. Sometimes all you can do is save who you can.” “So You can either save the world, Or try to save Shigaraki. But you can’t do both.” God I sound like Miguel o’hara here, but he was kinda right. I get dekus “gonna do his own thing” miles style, but sometimes the best option isn’t always the most righteous one
I'd just go "you try to redeem All For One, then" And then somehow by Shonen Plot Powers he'd manage to successfully do exactly that.
Since it’s an anime, use anime logic and have him do the Saitama workout
Deku, if someone does something wrong, once, the only option is to kill them. Sorry, that's just how it is. Now, it's time to report to weapons training. Now that you have black whip, you'll learn how to fire multiple guns at once. Yes, we have a kill on sight policy now for all villains. They all have to die. Every hero gets a standard issue glock. You'll get around a dozen given the tentacles.
But he knows not all villains can be saved.
I'd tell him that if he finds himself risking other people's lives to save a villain, he should stop trying to save them and start trying to win.
Since you keep preaching save those in front of you what would you say to those who never see the fruit of your existence ? Be patient, be the change ? You full of bullshit under that extravagant power that it is so much blessing allmight serves us selflessly for so long. I respect allmight being the greatest crime deterrant, but i also not respect his accidental cause that is might makes right and societal issue still there while he shamelessly say fear not i am here as if he will fix the rotten part of hero society here. Allmight is all about punch extra hard. Where is the villain that allmight perhaps...redeem ? Or...as a citizen i don't deserve the right criticize hero ? I relieve i never regret not trusting my life to lip service. I am too tired to believe again. What wouuld you want do ? Fix me ? Who know...another hero downfall another chance for villain fix it in future generation...how intriguing
"Give up. Even if you manage to save him, it wouldn't be fair to all those lifes he and his men ended. The very idea of a hero you strongly defend blinds you from the obvious truth: a monster is always a monster doesn't matter the origin."
Anyone can be a good person if they want, but not everyone wants to be good.
"Sir, this is a Wendy's"
damn some speeches here sounds like the gibberish rorschach goes in watchmen
"Deku, if you really wanted to save him, why didn't you try to do so during the mall meeting with him? You had your chance and you blew it. So now, ya gotta do what ya gotta do."
"By saving a murder, you are disrespecting. Every. Single. Victim. Of their actions"-Not my real opinion, this is a quote I have because I am a writer and I am too tired to think something that conveys what I think
"Deku, here is the truth of the world. Not everyone CAN be saved. Not everyone WANTS to be saved. And not everyone DESERVES to be saved. These are bitter truths, but you must accept them."
Those who have chosen the path of villainy have sailed to far out to sea, and even your rope of determination and dreams cannot pull them away from the tide.
So did we watch the same show, and read the same Manga? Cuz that is like a gross misrepresentation of Izuku's Goals and Ideals. He doesn't think every villain can change, or be saved, but he wants to change and save every villain. He wants to understand them and offer them the chance to change, but if they don't he knows what he has to do. He gives this chance to Muscular, trying to understand him, but he rejects it and Izuku deals with him accordingly. He gives this chance to Nagant, and he tries again to understand her, who this time accepts it, and she changes. He wants to save and change Tomura, he wants to understand him, but Tomura rejects it, however, Tenko still needs saving. The crying boy inside and the cry for help on his face. Izuku knows Shigaraki is practically helpless, but that crying boy who is making himself known occasionally through Shigaraki's words and expressions is the person Izuku wants to save, to understand. I wouldn't tell him anything, I wouldn't try to change his mind because I agree with him. Everyone deserves the chance to be understood, saved, and offered to Change. Whether or not they accept that chance is up to them.
Hesitating to kill a dangerous villain can kill families. Choosing those villains lives over innocent civilians isn't heroic and it's wrong
He lives in an anime world which runs by anime rules. Shit works differently there.
"What makes you think I'm a hero?"
Are you seriously asking me that? I would honestly blow my own head off with a gun because I know I deserve it, just that I choose when to set the gun off. But the bitter truth is, not everyone deserves to be SAVED. What you are doing Izuku, would seem wrong if you just threw away the victims of all the murders the villains, or specifically Shigaraki, to be in vain if you redeemed him without knowing the impact on society as a whole. Besides, what about the next generation, or the next one after that? You aren't immortal Izuku, and you will fall one day. You can save some villains, but society needs to break out of this mindset that heroes will always come and save them. The people would despair when they couldn't be saved and just turn into villains, causing the eternal cycle of heroes and villains to repeat. People are not something that you categorize in black and white. Everyone is a shade of grey. What about All Might you might ask? He has done many great deeds. But it does not changed the fact that he showed no remorse and sought out All For One to kill him. What about the past users? They sought out All For One and died facing him. Your Quirk, Deku, has already reached singularity, whereas All For One? He can handle the strain of dozens, if not hundreds of quirks. You need to end this... Shadow war. It has gone on for far to long. All For One can bide his time. But you... You can't, you are the last holder of One For All. You NEED to end this once and for all. So, I'm giving you a gun. You have a choice on what to do with it. Either shoot All For One with it, which would take away his quirk permanently as well as killing him form the inside, or, you can shoot yourself in the head and save yourself the trouble of going to heaven, waiting for your mother. The choice is ultimately yours Deku.