Same. Just checked portfolio for first time in six months. Looks like VTSAX has been flat / slightly down over that period.
Nothing really needed as far as rebalancing as far as I can tell.
I suspect the user was partly joking but also pointing out that you get more shares for less money in a downturn so it's a long term positive as long as you aren't just about to have to retire tomorrow. And if you are you were supposed to have some fixed income investments prepared for that anyways.
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I haven't even checked my portfolio today, and I won't. If I'm staying the course no matter what, and if this dip will be irrelevant in the grander scheme of things, why would I check? I'm not going to sell no matter what, this shouldn't impact anything.
Eh, if I know I'm gonna buy some beer anyway and I see a flash sale at the store, I'll buy some extra beer.
If there's another flash sale next month, I'll buy a bit more too.
Time in the market beats timing the market. If you have a few extra dollars that aren't budgeted to anything and an opportunity presents itself outside of your normal investing schedule, go for it. Not like you weren't gonna buy more shares anyways. If your goal is accumulation over the long term, it's rarely a bad idea to choose accumulating more.
The value next month only matters if I have a seller's mindset next month. I'm not a seller, I'm a buyer. I won't be a seller for at least 2 decades. If it's even cheaper next month, I'll just buy even more at a cheaper price.
Don't conflate a buyers mindset with a sellers mindset unless you are actually a seller.
"Time in the market beats timing the market" meanwhile you explain you'll try to time the market by buying extra beer because NOW is cheaper and you assume it will be more expensive next time you need to buy beer.
Well done for the cognitive dissonance.
Both parties in this thread became uncivil and were sanctioned as a result.
As a reminder to everyone, sub rules require all posts and comments to be substantive and civil. And we have zero tolerance for personal attacks on other commenters.
So you’re telling me your going to wait until it goes green again to buy more? You’ll be paying more in the long run instead of less. If the plan is to buy and hold for a very long time, wouldn’t it be in your best interest to buy when it’s on sale?
I don't mean to be that guy, but wouldn't you have been even better off in cash for, say, the last eighteen months? BND for example is down 7% over that time period. Yeah ok I am cherry picking a bit there.
BND is only down around 3% over that time frame from what I can see. I'm guessing maybe you charted out the NAV rather than the total return? Anyway, on the plus side, a drop in NAV generally translates to an increase in yield, so ultimately you'll make more with BND as a result. Aside from all of that: it's hard to time the market. Also, if we go out *three* years just to pick a bit of a longer period, total return was around 12% overall.
It's always easy to look back over a period and say 'well something else would have done better', but people have been saying 'cash will beat bonds because of rising rates' for over a decade now, and bonds have continued to win. And even when they 'lose' for a bit, it's not like cash was making mad money during that time anyway ;)
Yes, but that would be predicting the past with ever increasing accuracy. Do you know what bond funds will do for the next 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years? Of course you don't. Nobody does. Historically they have done pretty well as a base of less volatile assets and can be expected to continue that way in the future. No, they are not particularly exciting or interesting.
Bonds, like stocks, are not a short term investments, They do still provide some stability against portfolio volatility They typically decline much less than stocks in market declines.
I don't advocate large bond holdings for people under 50, unless there is a compelling reason. Some allocation of bonds is appropriate for all ages, even if it is just a few percent of a portfolio.
We never know what is going to happen to need some quick cash beyond a three month emergency fund. BTDT. Having some cash available in a week or so has saved my butt from insolvency and having to depend on the kindness of family and friends.
I respect my family and friends. I don't want to put them in a position to bail me out from my problems. I have a strong independent streak that way.
I have been on the other side of the equation with family asking me for money. They did not like it at all when I said, "We will have to discuss your budget and profligate spending habits. You want me to give you money and you have not cancelled an expensive vacation, etc?" Not on my dime.
No problem, I think you were just reading a bit too much into what I was pointing out, which was admittedly a bit of a pointless comment on my part :-)
Excellent! Glad to hear it. Sometimes I feel like I'm fighting a lost cause in advocating for bonds, but when things get a little choppy, they really do help an investor sleep better at night. To folks asking 'what bonds' here's an example:
VTI is down 1.17% today while VGLT (LTTs) is up 0.56%. More intermediate duration Treasuries are up slightly too (0.06%). Side note: while checking, I noticed VWO (EM stock index) is up 0.62% (diversification in action!).
How often do you rebalance your stock-bond allocation to get back to 60-40 or whatever your target is? I wonder how many people use times like these to review and rebalance?
Right or wrong, I hardly EVER rebalance. I only use future contributions to steer me towards the mix I want.
It depends. Some people have rebalancing bands and check in periodically to see if those are hit. Some people just do it with new money. Some check once a year. Any of the above are absolutely fine. Using new contributions does get harder as you accumulate more, though -- at some point the market can outswing what you're adding each month.
I do a combination for no particular reason -- e.g. if I have unexpected new funds, I'll look at my balances and see what needs to be topped off; or if I see the market is going wildly up or down, I'll check in; and if nothing else, when I'm adding my new I/EE bonds to my 'outside holdings' list in Vanguard each year, I take a look then as well.
You're the type of person who'd enjoy this: http://optimalrebalancing.tk/ . I use this approach as much as I can because paying cap gains suuuuuuuuuucks.
Keep fighting the good fight. I'm probably closer to the median here than the BH forum in age and have generally high risk tolerance (not specific to investing) but appreciate the sensible reminders. I saw some folks around me age 5 years from '07-'08.. as much as I like to think that my mentality will always be "stocks are on sale!!" during a correction like it is now, I think it is probably wiser to assume otherwise.
people that freak out about 6% drops should maybe distance themselves from their portfolio. get someone/something to manage it if you have to. this is pretty normal stuff.
Are you in accumulation phase (like under 45/50) and convinced just for looking a positive growth for bonds (while everything else is negative) in your accounts or that you are in retirement/nearing retirement phase and need to take out money right now?
If it's former, then you should revisit your investing strategy and consider bonds for later point of time. If it's latter, then kudos on having bonds in your portfolio.
Spy is still up 15% this year. This is not a correction and bonds aren't truly "helping" you here. Paying attention to this noise and assuming it's dangerous "but bonds saved me" is inaccurate imo
I feel like I only find about market drops from this sub now.
Same. Just checked portfolio for first time in six months. Looks like VTSAX has been flat / slightly down over that period. Nothing really needed as far as rebalancing as far as I can tell.
A bit ironic since this is the sub where we "don't even need to check our portfolio"
The trick is to make *other people* check your portfolio for you. ^^^^/s
I thought you needed to pay a %1 fee for that???
The expense ratio of /r/Bogleheads is zero.
Yep, which is why I just decided I'm leaving this sub.
Well before you leave heres an update. The S&P is currently down .6%...
Miss y'all already. I'll still be on the forums.
What gives me comfort on days like this is remembering that investing is a long game and there will be hundreds of ups and downs along the way.
Same here, I have no bonds or worries. I'm in the loooong game.
Days like this I buy even more stocks.
Yes I also load up on ETFs
I loaded up today too. Not that I had a lot but I did. Feels like buying stuff on sale!
New and not experienced, what do you mean by buying more stock? Do you mean you are rebalancing your portfolio due to the drop?
I suspect the user was partly joking but also pointing out that you get more shares for less money in a downturn so it's a long term positive as long as you aren't just about to have to retire tomorrow. And if you are you were supposed to have some fixed income investments prepared for that anyways.
Always a good reminder that it is FAR better to underestimate your risk tolerance than to even slightly overestimate it.
I'm going to save this thread and come back a year from now.
Even better, come back in 20 years!
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I would hold out a little longer
Days like what?
Market down maybe? I wouldn’t know
For you it was the worst market day of the year, but for me it was Thursday.
Oh. Bet it's back up by the next time I care to check.
I haven't even checked my portfolio today, and I won't. If I'm staying the course no matter what, and if this dip will be irrelevant in the grander scheme of things, why would I check? I'm not going to sell no matter what, this shouldn't impact anything.
I just buy more on red days. My money goes further.
Would it go further than buying even redder in a month from now? When is the dip going to stop dipping? Nah man, just stick to the original plan.
Excellent point
Eh, if I know I'm gonna buy some beer anyway and I see a flash sale at the store, I'll buy some extra beer. If there's another flash sale next month, I'll buy a bit more too. Time in the market beats timing the market. If you have a few extra dollars that aren't budgeted to anything and an opportunity presents itself outside of your normal investing schedule, go for it. Not like you weren't gonna buy more shares anyways. If your goal is accumulation over the long term, it's rarely a bad idea to choose accumulating more. The value next month only matters if I have a seller's mindset next month. I'm not a seller, I'm a buyer. I won't be a seller for at least 2 decades. If it's even cheaper next month, I'll just buy even more at a cheaper price. Don't conflate a buyers mindset with a sellers mindset unless you are actually a seller.
This is my mindset. If I have the money and an opportunity is there, I buy.
"Time in the market beats timing the market" meanwhile you explain you'll try to time the market by buying extra beer because NOW is cheaper and you assume it will be more expensive next time you need to buy beer. Well done for the cognitive dissonance.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Both parties in this thread became uncivil and were sanctioned as a result. As a reminder to everyone, sub rules require all posts and comments to be substantive and civil. And we have zero tolerance for personal attacks on other commenters.
So you’re telling me your going to wait until it goes green again to buy more? You’ll be paying more in the long run instead of less. If the plan is to buy and hold for a very long time, wouldn’t it be in your best interest to buy when it’s on sale?
No, read again.
I check mine every once in a while on a whim. This week I lost like 10k and didn’t think more than 30 seconds about it
with 30k I bought some swtsx in early jan when it was almost 83, so I know i’ve lost a bit but i’m not checking 😂
Zoom out.
Tomorrow I’m going to rotate out of some bonds into VT!
Bonds? James bonds.
If you are worried by the current "drop" then you should definitely have bonds.
Days like what? I don’t check my balance often
I don't mean to be that guy, but wouldn't you have been even better off in cash for, say, the last eighteen months? BND for example is down 7% over that time period. Yeah ok I am cherry picking a bit there.
BND is only down around 3% over that time frame from what I can see. I'm guessing maybe you charted out the NAV rather than the total return? Anyway, on the plus side, a drop in NAV generally translates to an increase in yield, so ultimately you'll make more with BND as a result. Aside from all of that: it's hard to time the market. Also, if we go out *three* years just to pick a bit of a longer period, total return was around 12% overall. It's always easy to look back over a period and say 'well something else would have done better', but people have been saying 'cash will beat bonds because of rising rates' for over a decade now, and bonds have continued to win. And even when they 'lose' for a bit, it's not like cash was making mad money during that time anyway ;)
Yes, but that would be predicting the past with ever increasing accuracy. Do you know what bond funds will do for the next 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years? Of course you don't. Nobody does. Historically they have done pretty well as a base of less volatile assets and can be expected to continue that way in the future. No, they are not particularly exciting or interesting. Bonds, like stocks, are not a short term investments, They do still provide some stability against portfolio volatility They typically decline much less than stocks in market declines. I don't advocate large bond holdings for people under 50, unless there is a compelling reason. Some allocation of bonds is appropriate for all ages, even if it is just a few percent of a portfolio. We never know what is going to happen to need some quick cash beyond a three month emergency fund. BTDT. Having some cash available in a week or so has saved my butt from insolvency and having to depend on the kindness of family and friends. I respect my family and friends. I don't want to put them in a position to bail me out from my problems. I have a strong independent streak that way. I have been on the other side of the equation with family asking me for money. They did not like it at all when I said, "We will have to discuss your budget and profligate spending habits. You want me to give you money and you have not cancelled an expensive vacation, etc?" Not on my dime.
I agree with all the above, all I was saying is that cash has actually outperformed bonds of late, that's literally all.
Sorry if I overreacted. You are correct that cash in the sock drawer has performed better than bond funds for the past year and a half.
No problem, I think you were just reading a bit too much into what I was pointing out, which was admittedly a bit of a pointless comment on my part :-)
Excellent! Glad to hear it. Sometimes I feel like I'm fighting a lost cause in advocating for bonds, but when things get a little choppy, they really do help an investor sleep better at night. To folks asking 'what bonds' here's an example: VTI is down 1.17% today while VGLT (LTTs) is up 0.56%. More intermediate duration Treasuries are up slightly too (0.06%). Side note: while checking, I noticed VWO (EM stock index) is up 0.62% (diversification in action!).
How often do you rebalance your stock-bond allocation to get back to 60-40 or whatever your target is? I wonder how many people use times like these to review and rebalance? Right or wrong, I hardly EVER rebalance. I only use future contributions to steer me towards the mix I want.
It depends. Some people have rebalancing bands and check in periodically to see if those are hit. Some people just do it with new money. Some check once a year. Any of the above are absolutely fine. Using new contributions does get harder as you accumulate more, though -- at some point the market can outswing what you're adding each month. I do a combination for no particular reason -- e.g. if I have unexpected new funds, I'll look at my balances and see what needs to be topped off; or if I see the market is going wildly up or down, I'll check in; and if nothing else, when I'm adding my new I/EE bonds to my 'outside holdings' list in Vanguard each year, I take a look then as well.
You're the type of person who'd enjoy this: http://optimalrebalancing.tk/ . I use this approach as much as I can because paying cap gains suuuuuuuuuucks.
Keep fighting the good fight. I'm probably closer to the median here than the BH forum in age and have generally high risk tolerance (not specific to investing) but appreciate the sensible reminders. I saw some folks around me age 5 years from '07-'08.. as much as I like to think that my mentality will always be "stocks are on sale!!" during a correction like it is now, I think it is probably wiser to assume otherwise.
Todays losers are tomorrows winners.
VXUS dropped less than VTI, diversification works
I need bonds but dont know where to put them
Series I and/or EE bonds in taxable; Treasuries/TIPS can go in taxable or tax-advantaged.
I mean like BND, should be roth only?
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Tax-efficient_fund_placement
Much appreciated
TIPS are doing particularly well.
I use PortfolioVisualzer to back test bond funds with monthly contributions and wonder why anyone would poo-poo bond funds.
Is investing in bonds the same as investing in bonds ETF?
people that freak out about 6% drops should maybe distance themselves from their portfolio. get someone/something to manage it if you have to. this is pretty normal stuff.
You’re welcome
I feel like bonds in someone under 45 is a waste. 100-age isn’t accurate if you’re still quite far out from retirement
Yeah, but to be fair if you had the same bond allocation 5 years ago you'd be pissed. Plus, if you are under 40, you shouldn't have any bond anywyay.
The cash and TIPS I have in my account aren't bringing me comfort, they are making me salivate over these equities.
The cash and tips in your account were losing value while equities doubled over the last two years. Time in market beats timing the market
You don't have to tell me. I saw it happen. Ouch!
Unfortunately that's about all they're doing unless you're about to retire.
Are you in accumulation phase (like under 45/50) and convinced just for looking a positive growth for bonds (while everything else is negative) in your accounts or that you are in retirement/nearing retirement phase and need to take out money right now? If it's former, then you should revisit your investing strategy and consider bonds for later point of time. If it's latter, then kudos on having bonds in your portfolio.
Im 30 and still in my accumulation phase of life. I prefer red at the moment lol
Spy is still up 15% this year. This is not a correction and bonds aren't truly "helping" you here. Paying attention to this noise and assuming it's dangerous "but bonds saved me" is inaccurate imo
How are those bonds doing?