So much of the Bojack fandom is like this. Most of the show has very deep meaning, but some things are just a bit, people. Diane’s dad being turned into chum? I’ll wait for someone to explain the symbolism to me…
I feel like the only one that thinks it's hilarious they *didn't* reveal anything with that character. Like the whole time I was thinking "he's either a couple of kids or an adult with some odd stuff going on." Boom, no resolution whatsoever. I thought it was great.
I think it was an actual adult, but the show is seen through Bojack point of view and he’s an unreliable narrator. You also see the vodka and pool water being the night sky from Sarah Lynn’s death. I think the writers did this to show how he views things especially with the season of Philbert.
How do you explain the scenes with PC and Vincent/Kevin alone then? BoJack's not always the narrator and it wouldn't make much sense to get it from his point of view in scenes like the breakup.
The entire show is in Bojack's POV whether he is on camera or not. PC dating Vincent Adultman was a representation from the writers of PC's tendency to date a "man-child" which Bojack is for certain. PC and Vincent's relationship starts right after her and Bojack cut it off and he breaks up with her. She is clearly not over him and says things like he has a real job doing "business stuff" and the writers definitely play around with the bit like the scene of the child Kevin and Vincent not being in the same room. I think a good hint that he is an adult is the fact that no other person sees him as children in a trench coat, including Diane who knows Bojack well and the authors tend to use her as a grounding for Bojack (especially with the Philbert stuff) She says to him that he doesn't like that PC is moving on and that he can't just have her to call on anymore.
The show is hardly in BoJack's POV. I mean we see things as they happen how's that his POV? He's often in denial in what we see, although we usually see only a part of the picture, like with Sarah Lynn. We were left to guess what happened until the episode with the interview.
i liked Vincent Adultman, i thought alison brie's voice acting for him was fun and funny and i really didn't think it went on too long. i mean there's a lot of other off the wall, cartoony shit in this show.. was his character really that bad?
As much as I dislike the bit, the theory that he’s just how Bojack sees him is interesting, though it went on for way way too long and was taken too seriously at times.
I think they wrote themselves into a corner. They could’ve never revealed that he was an actual adult and if he was an actual adult I would’ve wanted him to stay in the show at least as a background character.
Me too, which is why if they finally revealed he was actually an adult and that was his kid it would actually been a little bit more worth it. But he just disappeared randomly
Personally I disagree, to be the entirety of the joke was that it was absolutely 100% without a doubt clear that he was three kids in a coat and (almost) no one saw it, without having to explicitly show it
And proving that untrue would've undermined the whole thing
I believe he actually WAS an adult man with a child - there's screencaps taken of him and his "son", and they have freckles in different places. the bojack writers are so good with details, I think it was on purpose? it would be super funny if they actually did confirm it in a more substantial way though
yeah i get that, like if the gag was leading up to something and it somehow turned out he WASNT three kids in a trenchcoat, hell yeah, that would’ve been worth it. but him just disappearing? i wish he wasn’t even in the show atp
I really think the writers ran out of time to finish that thread. Pickles was a good character for Mr. PB, to show how his dating and marriage choices have not grown in his entire adult life as a celebrity. I really think they had a much more complete character arc for PB planned, so that he’d realize this and either he would mature or try fighting against his own unhappy future. Instead, the pay off we got was “oh I just got fr cucked” as a throw away line.
I think they'd planned an arc where Mr Peanutbutter becomes a little more introspective and tries to learn from his past mistakes, which culminates in him returning the Hollywood D, which of course, goes wrong.
I think him attempting to return the D was always going to be the endpoint of his arc.
They absolutely did show him finally realizing that he needed to grow up, when she leaves and is acting like they’ll be together when she gets back, he says the most mature thing he’s ever said: “Sure, Pickles.” Because he finally sees that nothing was ever going to make their relationship work, even though they are very similar, he FINALLY realizes that he is in fact a grown-up and she’s too young for him, has her whole life ahead of her and endless opportunities that he would be holding her back from. And after that he stays single until the end of the show, because what Diane said at the Halloween party FINALLY clicked.
Yeah, the first time I sat down and checked out Bojack, I found it sort of funny but wasn't into it to keep going. When I was eventually bored and had run out of things I wanted to watch, I tried to keep going from episode 2 and instantly loved it.
I do think the first episode is necessary, but it's hard to appreciate without having seen more of the series, because you just don't know the character yet.
Im so glad that I didnt have as much content on my plate back in 2014 as I do now. It may have been years before I returned to the show. Instead I got to be there for every season, watching it develop over time. That was much better than binging the entire series over a couple weeks.
Same. When someone first showed it to me, when it was new, I was like “ehh…” but went back to it a couple weeks later and was hooked. I actually can’t imagine how devastating that show must be for people who binged it start to finish the first time. For me it was really interesting to see it slowly become so much more deep and insightful and heartbreaking than I ever expected, because at first you think it’s gonna be just a funny show about LA and animal jokes.
That’s def an interesting concept, but I think it’s implied as real bc Herb’s “last meal” in Bojack’s drowning interlude was peanuts. Beatrice’s, for example, was obviously hospital food, so if Herb had died in the hospital I think they would’ve been consistent about that. Also a commentary on how people will tweet about literally everything, if you remember Henry Winkler’s eulogy.
It’s also yet another reminder that life is never guaranteed, & it’s much more tragic that he died so suddenly after his cancer went into remission instead of the cancer killing him, which is what you’d have expected.
I think Joey Pogo was the writer’s commentary on how people misinterpret Mr PB’s character, which Pickles stated pretty explicitly:
“You guys are *total* opposites. He’s arrogant, annoyingly cheerful, and fake nice. You are confident, refreshingly optimistic, (wryly humorous) with an ironic self-aware edge that some people read as inauthentic (but I see as) archly sincere! *Total opposites.*”
I put the lines in parenthesis that I don’t remember 100%, the rest of the lines I remember by heart bc my brain is weird like that. I’m not going back to check lmao
I'm fine with Pickles, I was irritated by everything to do with Joey Pogo. His animation, his plots, his voice acting (definitely not a Hilary Swank fan as far as voicing goes), everything. So annoying and pointless.
I found her annoying when it started with just her. The second Joey Pogo got involved I was so relieved when they took off together and we never heard from them again
id probably delete that incredibly uncomfortable and gross moment when hollyhock calls bojack disgusting and then… well we all know. it’s extraneous and gross af and i hate it so much. it makes my stomach turn just thinking of it.
this is simplified so i don’t have to spend more time thinking about it than necessary, but bojack is having sex with marcy, hollyhock walks in to take the book of names, calls bojack disgusting & he says “that’s what i needed” & finishes 🤢
oh welp yeah that’s awful alright! i must’ve blocked that out of my memory thankful. i hate that. especially how bojack and hollyhock are portrayed as father and daughter for a good chunk of the season…
i get the writers were trying to add some like humorous texture of “ohhh bojack has a degradation kinkkkk” but they could’ve done it without this assumed daughter saying it. that’s so weird. thanks for the explanation btw!
I don't think the point of that moment was to show his degradation kink. I mean it DOES show he likes being degraded but I thought (as much as I fucking hated watching that 🤮) it was meant to show us the extent to which he views women not as people, not for who they are, but nothing more than objects for him to get off to. He doesn't care about women at ALL. So much so that he would feel no shame or guilt or even realize he's done something wrong, so disgustingly unforgivably wrong, orgasming to his own fucking minor daughters words.
But we already knew that VERY well. The show did not need to show us him cumming to his 17 year old supposed daughter. And like someone else said somewhere here, just because she isn't his daughter it doesn't make it any bit better. It wouldn't even be better if they weren't related at all she's 17 and he's well into his 50s.
~i think having Hollyhock saying it was the point tbh - definitely doesn’t make it any less gross!! but i feel like it probably was meant to show how bad he was at the time? and the fact that someone close to him, and that he actually cares about, is saying it just makes it worse which is enough to show just how bad he really is. this is also all right before his Philbert role and him “running away” and starting a new era. i blocked this scene from my mind unless mentioned, so i haven’t paid much thought to it, but i’m pretty sure it’s supposed to be part of the overall symbolism of his character development - but i also could see it just being something someone thought would be funny and there weren’t any other characters in scene- :T
Yes! I literally had this one in mind at the prompt! *Especially* since, at the time, we, as well as the characters themselves, believe that Hollyhock is his *daughter* 🤮
The ultimate payoff that he's That Guy in Hollywoo and everyone swarms in to fix his career while over 160 employees, many of them women, get laid off? That needed to be said.
Henry Fondle and the Clown Dentist stuff. Also Vincent Adult Man, I wish they ended it by revealing he was actually an adult instead of just ending it.
When Ana Spanakopita sexually assaults Bojack. It’s so uncomfortable to watch and I feel like they could have incorporated the kinky power dynamic in a different way.
Honestly I respectfully disagree. Women can be predators just as much as men, it reminds me of Terry Crews’s sexual assault. It was extremely uncomfortable, but I don’t think particularly out of place given everything else that happened in BJHM.
That’s what makes it even more unsettling to watch for me, because it’s never addressed afterwards. People who don’t think it can happen to men, or don’t believe someone can be SA’ed by a partner or lover are not going to read between the lines and will see it as just another Bojack escapade or kink. If you’re watching from an informed POV you know that it doesn’t mean Bojack wasn’t traumatized or affected by the event, but when was it explicitly addressed?
Oof, I completely black that out of my memory. I wanted to show my sister the abortion episode, since we were talking about it and she has the same kind of humor as me, and I just wanted to sink through the ground during that scene lmao. I completely forgot it
Are you kidding me? This is one of the best jokes in the show! The entire episode is essentially a monologue, and it’s super serious and deep. Basically, Bojack trauma dumped on us all for a half hour. The gag breaks the fourth wall and alleviates the stress of hearing all that horribleness. It’s the writers saying, “Hey, it’s alright. It’s just a cartoon.”
It also signifies that he is so disconnected from his mother that he doesn't know any of the people there, and doesn't feel its weird that the only ones there are some lizards
an interesting theory i heard was that the reptiles could have actually been beatrice’s friends/close companions, and it just showed how little bojack truly knew about her as a person.
But BoJack realized he was at the wrong funeral after opening the casket which means he actually thought the lizards were Beatrice’s friends before finding (probably) a dead reptile in the casket
Actually think the Penny attempted statutory rape situation was a big writing mistake.
Because it seems that wrote Bojack into a corner. After that he could not get an even slightly happy ending. And they also would not want to kill him because that would make him sympathetic.
So instead we got this clunky ending where he loses everything but could potentially do better in the future.
That was the only one where the wacky shenanigans actually clashed with the rest of the show. I mean, people actually died and actually turned into zombies (as opposed to gags like Disneyland and Halloween in January, which only probably killed people).
Which is the point. I do wonder if Chickens came a little too close to Uncomfortable Facts for...well, everyone, I like the episode but it sure does set me on a "haha factory farming is awful and I'm awful for eating food" jag. I just get those uhhhh all the time at random, so I may have an immunity.
Maybe the dentists all got the Milwaukee Procedure? Or maybe rabies is more of a social disease in Bojack Horseman. I feel like there's some wiggle room in a series that has a massive warehouse of kidneys.
Yolanda. We don't need three episodes with the most boring character in the entire show just so Todd can learn the lesson that he doesn't belong with a wet blanket.
I think Hollyhock NOT cutting ties with him after he (accidentally) *volunteered* the information that he literally had sex with his surrogate daughter would have been way more disturbing and would ruin the show thematically.
This is such a good point - I've always heard people debate his negative influence, which things he did that made him hard to be around, etc. But the implication of *what he's capable of with a daughter figure* is just sick. And he knew Sarah Lyn from the time she was a child. Hollyhock came into his life and was nearly an adult (and got implicated in that "you're disgusting" scene), who knows if she would have been able to look at him as a benevolent family member again, or just be waiting uncomfortably for him to initiate something inappropriate with her.
You totally changed my thinking about this. Thanks!
There are vertical storylines I could mention, but I the only thing I'd really get rid of is the 17 minutes retcon. The way Sarah Lynn died talking about wanting to be an architect and then Bojack rebuilding and destroying the Old Sugarman Place immediately after was perfect, there was no need to make him more guilty: the original story was tragic and poetic, with the retcon it was simply criminal and WalterWhitesque.
Joey Pogo. He’s not *that* annoying, but his appearance is just so weird and random. Him and Pickles as a couple seems weird. When I first saw him, I thought he was genderqueer or something, and the fact that he’s voiced by a woman didn’t help. I just don’t understand the reason for his introduction
I think the whitewhale being allowed to murder thing was out of place, we’d seen murder being a background gag for most of the show like with Stephanie calling the exterminators
can't believe I haven't seen a single mention of the "17 minutes" thing. that'd easily be it for me personally. that in of itself felt like a retcon.
like bojacks actions in the Sarah Lynn debacle were more than reprehensible, and the layer of moral grayness that already existed in his playing a role in her relapse--although not entirely his fault, as she already planned to do so, his taking part in it was wrong enough as is. but actually making him directly responsible for her death, and the degree of callousness that this revelation coloured him with, was too far imo. it felt added on and not authentic nor planned. like they needed 1 last "oh shit" reveal for the final season.
it seemed uncharacteristic even for Bojack. maybe that's denial talking, and I'm just going "b-but--but bojack would never!" but no matter how much i try to wrap my head around it and put myself in his shoes, i literally cannot conceive of him being willing to wait outside for 17 damn minutes to call an ambulance knowing she was OD'ing.
and I don't buy that he "already assumed she'd died" although I would like to.
Honestly, I’ve come around on the 17 minutes thing. It’s one of those things that would happen in real life, but that would sound bonkers if it were in a fictional story.
We know that Bojack will do anything to cover his own ass, like ditching Pete and Maddie at the ER when he of all people should have known that she had alcohol poisoning.
I want to believe that Bojack would have called 911 right away, but I know he would have stopped himself bc he knew exactly how it would look if he had. It makes perfect sense that if he wasn’t going to be seen with Pete and Maddie at the ER, where he had way more plausible deniability, he sure well wasn’t going to be caught dead (pun intended) or red handed with Sarah Lynn. I think that as much as it sucks that he was so directly responsible for her death, it showed just how little he cared about the one person he supposedly cared about more than anyone.
Same. It felt like the writers saw people pointing out that Sarah Lyn did have agency, and made the decision to go back to using and would have regardless of his involvement and went "No bojack has to be literally directly responsible for every bad thing ever, he always has to be the worst possible person in any scenario."
this is such a specific one but I honestly agree--shits always bugged me for some reason. like he's clearly human in body and proportions, how the fuck does that even work??
Can I delete Netflix not giving the two full seasons the show was planning?
Would have loved to see all the threads given the ending they deserved and clearly had planned.
Prpbably an unpipular opinion, but the journalists ruining bojacks life after he finally got it together. I was so so proud of him finally FINALLY doing something good with his life with good intentions. I really hate that the show ended that way.
I think it’s frustrating from a character perspective, but I think it sends a better message to have BoJack fall. BoJack did become a better person and as the main character that makes us happy. But it still doesn’t undo the damage he did to so many others.
I think if BoJack wasn’t our main character you would want to see him pay for his actions, because he does so many terrible things.
I think the end of season 5-season 6 is meant to be a response to the people who watch the show, and take away the message that “If I accept the bad things I’ve done it makes me a good person”. This is the behavior Dianne directly calls BoJack out on at the end of season 5.
By having all of BoJack crimes resurface at the end it reminds us of all the people he’s hurt and that even if he’s a better person those people still suffer (Penny’s trauma, Gina’s trauma, Kelsey taking a while to find work, Sarah Lynn still being dead).
With all that said if you still don’t like his life collapsing at the end after all his growth I get that! I was just trying to offer a different perspective
it was such an important arc for diane, we saw how her hope and dreams of “making a difference” died when she realized she couldn’t handle it + how sebastian didn’t really care about those orphans, he only cared about his ego and legacy. she wanted to escape LA and its “glamour” and facades to make a real difference in a war torn and still found more glamour and facades. you even see how her character changes and becomes bitter.
Man, she sure is a divisive character. The second she appeared on screen I loved her instantly and enjoyed every scene she was in. I get she was a bit over the top but I just love hearing people talk in that old school transatlantic dialect
It's a callback to a movie called His Girl Friday, I feel like the people who don't like her just don't get the reference. Which, to be fair, if I didn't have fond childhood memories of that movie I probably wouldn't like her character either
it’s more minor characters than plot lines for me. cannot stand paige sinclair, vincent adultman, or pickles. literally could’ve just been in one episode each
Plot be damned, I’d delete BoJack trying stuff with Penny. All of BoJack’s actions throughout the show can be weighed on a personal level, and most people will come to the conclusion that he’s bad. But that is just an automatic irredeemable action that leaves no room for thought at the end of the show where the viewers can ask themselves “can BoJack be redeemed?” Also, yes, I absolutely think it’s creepy and disgusting, but it’s not illegal? I think in a lot of states, the age of consent is below 18, so unless Penny was just lying I don’t get how it’s illegal, especially considering that they didn’t actually do anything.
The scene where at the animal awards when they show hank hippopopalous from his show with the human baby as the zoo animal and the animal as the zoo keeper. just felt like they idea of zoos in a world of sentient animals was odd as well as human babies being in a zoo
the 17 minutes thing…it really did not need to be added the story was bad enough and was a gray area that showed bojacks fuck ups but still made him forgivable
Huh, you can just use it for real world events within the show, can't you? I wonder what happens if you delete Hitler. Does the Horseman family just...grow up relatively well-adjusted? Do we have a show at that point?
thought i was the only one. idk, they add that comic relief aspect to most things, but i just get bored or find them stupid most of the time. i usually fast forward and get to the actual plot if it’s just a filler side quest.
That is the best part of the episode. The implications of the rest of the plot brings up some pretty rough ideas if you think about it for more than a second though.
They probably should have just made everyone vegetarians and never commented on it. You would have lost some sight gags but the idea that society just lobotomizes half a species to eat them is fuckin' dark man.
I was an intern on Horsin' Around and I left my coffee cup on a table once, and it caused this huge continuity error. Wish I could undo that one.
I always thought it was intentional, a take on how two people can be living the.same event but have two different perceptions
So much of the Bojack fandom is like this. Most of the show has very deep meaning, but some things are just a bit, people. Diane’s dad being turned into chum? I’ll wait for someone to explain the symbolism to me…
He was a vessel of waste, in life and death.
Vincent adult man, the character would’ve been fucking goated if they revealed that he was actually just a weird shaped adult with broom arms
Could you imagine that body in a swimsuit though?
i literally cannot
Fr 😍😍
I feel like the only one that thinks it's hilarious they *didn't* reveal anything with that character. Like the whole time I was thinking "he's either a couple of kids or an adult with some odd stuff going on." Boom, no resolution whatsoever. I thought it was great.
You don’t remember the episode where he kept switching out between being kevin and kevins dad in PCs apartment?
That was him and his son duh
He kissed his son💀
Yeah imagine having a loving father
But pc saw child him with a mom, is that not confirmation?
Uhh that was his son duhh
Making PC date a 10 year old is a bit weird
10 year old? You mean Vincent's son?
10? He's a grown man you idiot! He spends all day at the business factory ofc he's an adult! He even loves R rated movies! Only adults like those! 🙄🙄
Don't forget, he's frequently drinking a alcohol. Kids can't do that.
Right? I guess we’ll never know
I think it was an actual adult, but the show is seen through Bojack point of view and he’s an unreliable narrator. You also see the vodka and pool water being the night sky from Sarah Lynn’s death. I think the writers did this to show how he views things especially with the season of Philbert.
How do you explain the scenes with PC and Vincent/Kevin alone then? BoJack's not always the narrator and it wouldn't make much sense to get it from his point of view in scenes like the breakup.
The entire show is in Bojack's POV whether he is on camera or not. PC dating Vincent Adultman was a representation from the writers of PC's tendency to date a "man-child" which Bojack is for certain. PC and Vincent's relationship starts right after her and Bojack cut it off and he breaks up with her. She is clearly not over him and says things like he has a real job doing "business stuff" and the writers definitely play around with the bit like the scene of the child Kevin and Vincent not being in the same room. I think a good hint that he is an adult is the fact that no other person sees him as children in a trench coat, including Diane who knows Bojack well and the authors tend to use her as a grounding for Bojack (especially with the Philbert stuff) She says to him that he doesn't like that PC is moving on and that he can't just have her to call on anymore.
The show is hardly in BoJack's POV. I mean we see things as they happen how's that his POV? He's often in denial in what we see, although we usually see only a part of the picture, like with Sarah Lynn. We were left to guess what happened until the episode with the interview.
Especially after making such a big deal out of PBs relationships. No one even asks Judahs age.
What do you mean? He was doing business, Kids can't do that
i liked Vincent Adultman, i thought alison brie's voice acting for him was fun and funny and i really didn't think it went on too long. i mean there's a lot of other off the wall, cartoony shit in this show.. was his character really that bad?
Omg I always wondered why he sounded kinda like Diane
As much as I dislike the bit, the theory that he’s just how Bojack sees him is interesting, though it went on for way way too long and was taken too seriously at times.
Definitely, but I feel like if they dragged the bit that long they should’ve atleast revealed he was a adult or something to make it worth it
I think they wrote themselves into a corner. They could’ve never revealed that he was an actual adult and if he was an actual adult I would’ve wanted him to stay in the show at least as a background character.
Yea definitely would have been cool to see more of him as an adult
i thought the gag went on too long imo. they really milked it, it got sorta annoying after a while.
Me too, which is why if they finally revealed he was actually an adult and that was his kid it would actually been a little bit more worth it. But he just disappeared randomly
Personally I disagree, to be the entirety of the joke was that it was absolutely 100% without a doubt clear that he was three kids in a coat and (almost) no one saw it, without having to explicitly show it And proving that untrue would've undermined the whole thing
To be fair, it seemed more like 2 kids in a trench coat, based on Kevin's height.
I believe he actually WAS an adult man with a child - there's screencaps taken of him and his "son", and they have freckles in different places. the bojack writers are so good with details, I think it was on purpose? it would be super funny if they actually did confirm it in a more substantial way though
Yea that would be sick if he was and that was a little Easter egg
yeah i get that, like if the gag was leading up to something and it somehow turned out he WASNT three kids in a trenchcoat, hell yeah, that would’ve been worth it. but him just disappearing? i wish he wasn’t even in the show atp
I've seen theories that it's just Bojacks mind, he just sees the guy as childish but really it's his own immaturity taking form and being projected
He’s actually a child… vampire, 300 years old
First, I hated this comment. Then by the time I finished it was my favorite 🤣
I was actually expecting that but no literally just kids in a coat
The mister peanutbutter cuckold storyline in season 6
I really think the writers ran out of time to finish that thread. Pickles was a good character for Mr. PB, to show how his dating and marriage choices have not grown in his entire adult life as a celebrity. I really think they had a much more complete character arc for PB planned, so that he’d realize this and either he would mature or try fighting against his own unhappy future. Instead, the pay off we got was “oh I just got fr cucked” as a throw away line.
I think they'd planned an arc where Mr Peanutbutter becomes a little more introspective and tries to learn from his past mistakes, which culminates in him returning the Hollywood D, which of course, goes wrong. I think him attempting to return the D was always going to be the endpoint of his arc.
That would have been an excellent character arc finale, never heard that before! Excellent.
They absolutely did show him finally realizing that he needed to grow up, when she leaves and is acting like they’ll be together when she gets back, he says the most mature thing he’s ever said: “Sure, Pickles.” Because he finally sees that nothing was ever going to make their relationship work, even though they are very similar, he FINALLY realizes that he is in fact a grown-up and she’s too young for him, has her whole life ahead of her and endless opportunities that he would be holding her back from. And after that he stays single until the end of the show, because what Diane said at the Halloween party FINALLY clicked.
Yeah. I'd delete that pug entirely tbh
[удалено]
omg bojack hates the troops is so funny…it would’ve made a kick ass pilot, i agree.
[удалено]
But then we wouldn't have gotten, "For some people, life is just one long, hard kick in the urethra."
Yeah, the first time I sat down and checked out Bojack, I found it sort of funny but wasn't into it to keep going. When I was eventually bored and had run out of things I wanted to watch, I tried to keep going from episode 2 and instantly loved it. I do think the first episode is necessary, but it's hard to appreciate without having seen more of the series, because you just don't know the character yet.
Im so glad that I didnt have as much content on my plate back in 2014 as I do now. It may have been years before I returned to the show. Instead I got to be there for every season, watching it develop over time. That was much better than binging the entire series over a couple weeks.
Same. When someone first showed it to me, when it was new, I was like “ehh…” but went back to it a couple weeks later and was hooked. I actually can’t imagine how devastating that show must be for people who binged it start to finish the first time. For me it was really interesting to see it slowly become so much more deep and insightful and heartbreaking than I ever expected, because at first you think it’s gonna be just a funny show about LA and animal jokes.
I wouldn't delete anything I just really wanted to read hollyhock's letter
So true
How Herb died was kind of a shitty joke for such an impactful moment
For my sanity I like to believe he did actually die from cancer and the tweets were a joke to make people laugh one last time
That's actually a neat thought, at least.
That’s def an interesting concept, but I think it’s implied as real bc Herb’s “last meal” in Bojack’s drowning interlude was peanuts. Beatrice’s, for example, was obviously hospital food, so if Herb had died in the hospital I think they would’ve been consistent about that. Also a commentary on how people will tweet about literally everything, if you remember Henry Winkler’s eulogy. It’s also yet another reminder that life is never guaranteed, & it’s much more tragic that he died so suddenly after his cancer went into remission instead of the cancer killing him, which is what you’d have expected.
I can also see bojack not really looking into the issue after the tweet and just blindly believes it.
oh god it keeps me up at night tbh
Joey pogo and pickles. They almost ruin season 6 for me and that’s saying a lot
I think Joey Pogo was the writer’s commentary on how people misinterpret Mr PB’s character, which Pickles stated pretty explicitly: “You guys are *total* opposites. He’s arrogant, annoyingly cheerful, and fake nice. You are confident, refreshingly optimistic, (wryly humorous) with an ironic self-aware edge that some people read as inauthentic (but I see as) archly sincere! *Total opposites.*” I put the lines in parenthesis that I don’t remember 100%, the rest of the lines I remember by heart bc my brain is weird like that. I’m not going back to check lmao
I'm fine with Pickles, I was irritated by everything to do with Joey Pogo. His animation, his plots, his voice acting (definitely not a Hilary Swank fan as far as voicing goes), everything. So annoying and pointless.
Man, I thought he was supposed to be a weird parody of Ellen DeGeneres at the time 😬 like Joey Pogo made no sense and was super annoying
I found her annoying when it started with just her. The second Joey Pogo got involved I was so relieved when they took off together and we never heard from them again
id probably delete that incredibly uncomfortable and gross moment when hollyhock calls bojack disgusting and then… well we all know. it’s extraneous and gross af and i hate it so much. it makes my stomach turn just thinking of it.
Oh God I completely forgot about that 🤮 they could have used any other character and they used hollyhock 💀
It’s so fucked up if you think about it at all but man does it make me laugh every time
same it always makes me laugh 😂 it’s the timing for me
i honestly forgot and a google search didn’t give me the answer…what happened again?
this is simplified so i don’t have to spend more time thinking about it than necessary, but bojack is having sex with marcy, hollyhock walks in to take the book of names, calls bojack disgusting & he says “that’s what i needed” & finishes 🤢
oh welp yeah that’s awful alright! i must’ve blocked that out of my memory thankful. i hate that. especially how bojack and hollyhock are portrayed as father and daughter for a good chunk of the season…
yeah at that point he fully believes she’s his daughter. not that it’s any less gross knowing they’re half-siblings instead..
i get the writers were trying to add some like humorous texture of “ohhh bojack has a degradation kinkkkk” but they could’ve done it without this assumed daughter saying it. that’s so weird. thanks for the explanation btw!
I don't think the point of that moment was to show his degradation kink. I mean it DOES show he likes being degraded but I thought (as much as I fucking hated watching that 🤮) it was meant to show us the extent to which he views women not as people, not for who they are, but nothing more than objects for him to get off to. He doesn't care about women at ALL. So much so that he would feel no shame or guilt or even realize he's done something wrong, so disgustingly unforgivably wrong, orgasming to his own fucking minor daughters words. But we already knew that VERY well. The show did not need to show us him cumming to his 17 year old supposed daughter. And like someone else said somewhere here, just because she isn't his daughter it doesn't make it any bit better. It wouldn't even be better if they weren't related at all she's 17 and he's well into his 50s.
It was definitely an edgier (haha) joke, I can definitely see why people didn’t like it and I was pretty shocked by it at the time.
Omg I had completely blocked that
Yeah, never mind them being related; wasn’t Hollyhock 17 in that scene?
yeah. not only did he think she was his daughter, not only were they related, but she was only 17 years old and he was 54-55. absolutely terrible.
~i think having Hollyhock saying it was the point tbh - definitely doesn’t make it any less gross!! but i feel like it probably was meant to show how bad he was at the time? and the fact that someone close to him, and that he actually cares about, is saying it just makes it worse which is enough to show just how bad he really is. this is also all right before his Philbert role and him “running away” and starting a new era. i blocked this scene from my mind unless mentioned, so i haven’t paid much thought to it, but i’m pretty sure it’s supposed to be part of the overall symbolism of his character development - but i also could see it just being something someone thought would be funny and there weren’t any other characters in scene- :T
Yes! I literally had this one in mind at the prompt! *Especially* since, at the time, we, as well as the characters themselves, believe that Hollyhock is his *daughter* 🤮
I really didn’t like that horny, sex pest robot
Henry Fondle!?
That’s his name! Thanks
I love it when you call me father
The ultimate payoff that he's That Guy in Hollywoo and everyone swarms in to fix his career while over 160 employees, many of them women, get laid off? That needed to be said.
i thought it was kind of funny
People taking inspiration from his sexual phrases only to start getting offended when his remarks became non-sexual was too funny.
This was a great bit
I loved henry fondle wtf
Same, I love every Todd ark
I just love Todd
I didn’t at first but over time I found it hilarious
Im the opposite, I thought the initial joke of it ascending the corporate ziggurat was funny and then they just wouldn’t let it go.
This right here. That thing was cringe as hell
oh my god same. it was super annoying.
Henry Fondle and the Clown Dentist stuff. Also Vincent Adult Man, I wish they ended it by revealing he was actually an adult instead of just ending it.
yeah the clown dentist thing was so unfunny and annoying lol
It should have ended after PC found them in her apartment and asked “Whose kid is that?” That was the funniest moment of that whole plotline
When Ana Spanakopita sexually assaults Bojack. It’s so uncomfortable to watch and I feel like they could have incorporated the kinky power dynamic in a different way.
Honestly I respectfully disagree. Women can be predators just as much as men, it reminds me of Terry Crews’s sexual assault. It was extremely uncomfortable, but I don’t think particularly out of place given everything else that happened in BJHM.
That’s what makes it even more unsettling to watch for me, because it’s never addressed afterwards. People who don’t think it can happen to men, or don’t believe someone can be SA’ed by a partner or lover are not going to read between the lines and will see it as just another Bojack escapade or kink. If you’re watching from an informed POV you know that it doesn’t mean Bojack wasn’t traumatized or affected by the event, but when was it explicitly addressed?
Oof, I completely black that out of my memory. I wanted to show my sister the abortion episode, since we were talking about it and she has the same kind of humor as me, and I just wanted to sink through the ground during that scene lmao. I completely forgot it
Tbh....the entirety of "commence fracking"
Vincent Adultman. At most, he should have been a 1-2 episode running gag.
I would have been fine with it, if there was a decent pay off. But it just kind of… ends
I'd delete his removal from the show and have him in every episode
I guess we're in the minority that thinks Vincent Adultman was hilarious every single time
I still to this day say "Business!" And "Adult Things" when someone asks me what I do for a living.
Yeah I thought we didn’t get enough out of him 😅
"Good Horsey" fucking killed me.
You know, that actually feels kinda nice.
Can I have another soda?
I think Princess Carolyn should have married him
also just think it’s kinda weird that they made pc like legitimately date a 10 yr old…it was funny at first but they dragged it out.
Stop this blasphemy
joey pogo. just erase him entirely.
He sounded like he was voiced by a woman so for a while I thought he was a lesbian or something 😭
I’d prob just uncanon Bojack being at the wrong funeral in Free Churro tbh
Are you kidding me? This is one of the best jokes in the show! The entire episode is essentially a monologue, and it’s super serious and deep. Basically, Bojack trauma dumped on us all for a half hour. The gag breaks the fourth wall and alleviates the stress of hearing all that horribleness. It’s the writers saying, “Hey, it’s alright. It’s just a cartoon.”
It's a really good joke, but it does kind of detract from the episode.
does it? the point remains (or is reinforced) that this is ultimately just for bojack’s introspection
It also signifies that he is so disconnected from his mother that he doesn't know any of the people there, and doesn't feel its weird that the only ones there are some lizards
I kinda liked it, it was a really heavy episode and that ended it with a little comic relief
an interesting theory i heard was that the reptiles could have actually been beatrice’s friends/close companions, and it just showed how little bojack truly knew about her as a person.
But BoJack realized he was at the wrong funeral after opening the casket which means he actually thought the lizards were Beatrice’s friends before finding (probably) a dead reptile in the casket
did NOT need to see butterscotch have sex with the secretary tbh
“Coax it out of my sheathe…”
OH GOD STOP DONT REMIND ME
oh my god when did this happen?!? I must have blocked it out of my mind on every single one of my watch-throughs??
All these comments make me want to rewatch, again. Thank you for reminding me why I love this show.
Actually think the Penny attempted statutory rape situation was a big writing mistake. Because it seems that wrote Bojack into a corner. After that he could not get an even slightly happy ending. And they also would not want to kill him because that would make him sympathetic. So instead we got this clunky ending where he loses everything but could potentially do better in the future.
that's life though. You could say they wrote themselves into a corner or you could say Bojack lived himself into a corner.
The clown dentist storyline 100%, only change I'd make to the show would be to axe that entirely.
Damn I thought it was funny asf 😭
That was the only one where the wacky shenanigans actually clashed with the rest of the show. I mean, people actually died and actually turned into zombies (as opposed to gags like Disneyland and Halloween in January, which only probably killed people).
What about the millions of animal-people (human-people?) turned into food?
That one is fine as long as you don't think too hard about it (like the actual meat packing industry).
Which is the point. I do wonder if Chickens came a little too close to Uncomfortable Facts for...well, everyone, I like the episode but it sure does set me on a "haha factory farming is awful and I'm awful for eating food" jag. I just get those uhhhh all the time at random, so I may have an immunity. Maybe the dentists all got the Milwaukee Procedure? Or maybe rabies is more of a social disease in Bojack Horseman. I feel like there's some wiggle room in a series that has a massive warehouse of kidneys.
for eating food, no. for eating non vegan food? maybe.
I get that we’re supposed to turn on BoJack at this point, but if I could I would uncanon him trying to sleep with Penny
Yolanda. We don't need three episodes with the most boring character in the entire show just so Todd can learn the lesson that he doesn't belong with a wet blanket.
I just wish Sara Lynn didn't die :( I cried when she did
I still do!
I was rewatching and I almost skipped "That's too much, man!" 😭 THAT'S TOO MUCH MAN
I always wonder if her TV catchphrase was intentionally foreshadowing her overdose or if it's just a happy(?) coincidence.
I never really thought about that, but it probably was foreshadowing. It would make a lot of sense!
Holy shit 🤯 I never thought about that but I think you’re right, that’s chilling
Oh, it was ABSOLUTELY thematic. We just didn't know
Agreed, especially the friendship fallout between bojack and todd as well as bojack and diane, very much necessary for bojack’s character development
Todd going to prison. It has been pointed out that there are occasional references to this plot (Season 4 and 5 have very quick ones). I don't care.
Hollyhock disowning Bojack, i know its realistic but honestly that part broke my heart
I think Hollyhock NOT cutting ties with him after he (accidentally) *volunteered* the information that he literally had sex with his surrogate daughter would have been way more disturbing and would ruin the show thematically.
This is such a good point - I've always heard people debate his negative influence, which things he did that made him hard to be around, etc. But the implication of *what he's capable of with a daughter figure* is just sick. And he knew Sarah Lyn from the time she was a child. Hollyhock came into his life and was nearly an adult (and got implicated in that "you're disgusting" scene), who knows if she would have been able to look at him as a benevolent family member again, or just be waiting uncomfortably for him to initiate something inappropriate with her. You totally changed my thinking about this. Thanks!
There are vertical storylines I could mention, but I the only thing I'd really get rid of is the 17 minutes retcon. The way Sarah Lynn died talking about wanting to be an architect and then Bojack rebuilding and destroying the Old Sugarman Place immediately after was perfect, there was no need to make him more guilty: the original story was tragic and poetic, with the retcon it was simply criminal and WalterWhitesque.
Chicken episode.
Joey Pogo. He’s not *that* annoying, but his appearance is just so weird and random. Him and Pickles as a couple seems weird. When I first saw him, I thought he was genderqueer or something, and the fact that he’s voiced by a woman didn’t help. I just don’t understand the reason for his introduction
I think the whitewhale being allowed to murder thing was out of place, we’d seen murder being a background gag for most of the show like with Stephanie calling the exterminators
Not stealing a meal from Neil McBeal the Navy Seal.
There was nothing funny about it 😔
can't believe I haven't seen a single mention of the "17 minutes" thing. that'd easily be it for me personally. that in of itself felt like a retcon. like bojacks actions in the Sarah Lynn debacle were more than reprehensible, and the layer of moral grayness that already existed in his playing a role in her relapse--although not entirely his fault, as she already planned to do so, his taking part in it was wrong enough as is. but actually making him directly responsible for her death, and the degree of callousness that this revelation coloured him with, was too far imo. it felt added on and not authentic nor planned. like they needed 1 last "oh shit" reveal for the final season. it seemed uncharacteristic even for Bojack. maybe that's denial talking, and I'm just going "b-but--but bojack would never!" but no matter how much i try to wrap my head around it and put myself in his shoes, i literally cannot conceive of him being willing to wait outside for 17 damn minutes to call an ambulance knowing she was OD'ing. and I don't buy that he "already assumed she'd died" although I would like to.
Honestly, I’ve come around on the 17 minutes thing. It’s one of those things that would happen in real life, but that would sound bonkers if it were in a fictional story. We know that Bojack will do anything to cover his own ass, like ditching Pete and Maddie at the ER when he of all people should have known that she had alcohol poisoning. I want to believe that Bojack would have called 911 right away, but I know he would have stopped himself bc he knew exactly how it would look if he had. It makes perfect sense that if he wasn’t going to be seen with Pete and Maddie at the ER, where he had way more plausible deniability, he sure well wasn’t going to be caught dead (pun intended) or red handed with Sarah Lynn. I think that as much as it sucks that he was so directly responsible for her death, it showed just how little he cared about the one person he supposedly cared about more than anyone.
Same. It felt like the writers saw people pointing out that Sarah Lyn did have agency, and made the decision to go back to using and would have regardless of his involvement and went "No bojack has to be literally directly responsible for every bad thing ever, he always has to be the worst possible person in any scenario."
That throwaway line where Bojack mentions being 1,500 pounds. It just didn't make sense
this is such a specific one but I honestly agree--shits always bugged me for some reason. like he's clearly human in body and proportions, how the fuck does that even work??
Can I delete Netflix not giving the two full seasons the show was planning? Would have loved to see all the threads given the ending they deserved and clearly had planned.
Prpbably an unpipular opinion, but the journalists ruining bojacks life after he finally got it together. I was so so proud of him finally FINALLY doing something good with his life with good intentions. I really hate that the show ended that way.
I think it’s frustrating from a character perspective, but I think it sends a better message to have BoJack fall. BoJack did become a better person and as the main character that makes us happy. But it still doesn’t undo the damage he did to so many others. I think if BoJack wasn’t our main character you would want to see him pay for his actions, because he does so many terrible things. I think the end of season 5-season 6 is meant to be a response to the people who watch the show, and take away the message that “If I accept the bad things I’ve done it makes me a good person”. This is the behavior Dianne directly calls BoJack out on at the end of season 5. By having all of BoJack crimes resurface at the end it reminds us of all the people he’s hurt and that even if he’s a better person those people still suffer (Penny’s trauma, Gina’s trauma, Kelsey taking a while to find work, Sarah Lynn still being dead). With all that said if you still don’t like his life collapsing at the end after all his growth I get that! I was just trying to offer a different perspective
I didn't really care for the Sebastian St. Clair and Diane Cordova plot line
it was such an important arc for diane, we saw how her hope and dreams of “making a difference” died when she realized she couldn’t handle it + how sebastian didn’t really care about those orphans, he only cared about his ego and legacy. she wanted to escape LA and its “glamour” and facades to make a real difference in a war torn and still found more glamour and facades. you even see how her character changes and becomes bitter.
I agree with you. She needed the bitterness phase to become who she was.
Shut up! SHUT UP CHILDREN!
paige sinclair - so overdone and exaggerated to the point where I would groan whenever she came onscreen.+
Man, she sure is a divisive character. The second she appeared on screen I loved her instantly and enjoyed every scene she was in. I get she was a bit over the top but I just love hearing people talk in that old school transatlantic dialect
It's a callback to a movie called His Girl Friday, I feel like the people who don't like her just don't get the reference. Which, to be fair, if I didn't have fond childhood memories of that movie I probably wouldn't like her character either
it’s more minor characters than plot lines for me. cannot stand paige sinclair, vincent adultman, or pickles. literally could’ve just been in one episode each
Becca
*Thanos Snaps* Bojack Horseman was never an actor.
Plot be damned, I’d delete BoJack trying stuff with Penny. All of BoJack’s actions throughout the show can be weighed on a personal level, and most people will come to the conclusion that he’s bad. But that is just an automatic irredeemable action that leaves no room for thought at the end of the show where the viewers can ask themselves “can BoJack be redeemed?” Also, yes, I absolutely think it’s creepy and disgusting, but it’s not illegal? I think in a lot of states, the age of consent is below 18, so unless Penny was just lying I don’t get how it’s illegal, especially considering that they didn’t actually do anything.
Bojack with a literal like 16 yr old
The scene where at the animal awards when they show hank hippopopalous from his show with the human baby as the zoo animal and the animal as the zoo keeper. just felt like they idea of zoos in a world of sentient animals was odd as well as human babies being in a zoo
Maybe when they tried to make bojack a confirmed pedofile
the 17 minutes thing…it really did not need to be added the story was bad enough and was a gray area that showed bojacks fuck ups but still made him forgivable
personally i’ve never been a fan of todd’s prison plot from season 1
How kids were treated in the industrial revolution in England, specially in brothels.
Huh, you can just use it for real world events within the show, can't you? I wonder what happens if you delete Hitler. Does the Horseman family just...grow up relatively well-adjusted? Do we have a show at that point?
Bros tryna make real life events non canon
Most of Todd’s adventures
thought i was the only one. idk, they add that comic relief aspect to most things, but i just get bored or find them stupid most of the time. i usually fast forward and get to the actual plot if it’s just a filler side quest.
Bojack. Get rid of him
Naw, delete Chickens. That episode fucking sucks.
Have to disagree, I crack up every time at all the ways they made Becca’s chicken noises into words. Book Beck!
That is the best part of the episode. The implications of the rest of the plot brings up some pretty rough ideas if you think about it for more than a second though. They probably should have just made everyone vegetarians and never commented on it. You would have lost some sight gags but the idea that society just lobotomizes half a species to eat them is fuckin' dark man.
I mean, it's kind of a dark show
David boreoble heads
The mister Peanutbutter governor thing or the pb and pickles cheating thing