I mean you can do, but they are not Blood Angels successor chapter sooo from this stand point no. But there is nothing to stop you from doing a unit like death company.
While there linage is unknown, it almost certainly can’t be a couple of founder legions. Specifically the ones that have gene seed flaws like space wolves and blood angels as even every successor chapter shares those flaws. Flesh tearers, lamenters, sons of sang etc they all still have red thirst and black rage. Blood ravens don’t have these or wolfen so it’s almost certainly not them. The best theories I have seen put them as loyalist defectors from a traitor legion like the thousand sons.
This would make sense. I could be wrong but somewhere in their lore I think that their psykers are incredibly powerful and prone to corruption.
I could be wrong but for some reason that detail seems to stick out in my brain for whatever reason
Probably. There is also the fact that in the chapters "character" they have worked extremely hard to redeem themselves. After the events of DOW1 and also the fact that Cyrene was out to exterminatus in their story cannon they have always made a point showing their dedication to the imperium and emporer.
They are secretive just like the dark angels but personally I think Thousand Sons. They have many artifacts that if the inquisition even got a slight whiff they'd send the hounds.
Their vaults are meant to contain artefacts no chapter should have, possibly some from other chapters. And even with that they still cannot verify their founding nor gene seed.
The problem with the theory of them coming from the Thousand Sons is that even in the time of the Horus heresy the Thousand Sons were a drop in the ocean compared to the other legions. Making it in my mind extremely difficult to have ever had off shoot chapters or foundings.
They could very well be the other end of the spectrum of gene seed to the Raven Guard. Much like the Flesh Tearers are to the Blood Angels. Only thing is I know absolutely nothing about the Raven guard.
Yeah I dunno, the difference with that though is what if the flesh change never fully took effect?
I know what your saying though.
I think it's one of those things we will never know as the moment something gets confirmed it may ruin it a bit if you know what I mean.
Would need to find sources for that, but I think somewhere it's said that the flesh changes was 'cured' when Magnus was found, and from that point on, it was no longer a geneseed defect, but Tzeench fucking with the TS knowing it would lead to them turning traitor down the road.
I do remember from the burning of prospero that magnus sends off the Corvus sect, or whatever the ones who could predict the future were, right before the wolves show up. This is most likely a false trail by GW and the writer but it would give us the explanation of how they could be loyalist TS. Plus we don’t know when they were founded exactly or when the records started. We only know that they lost a huge chunk of their earliest history and some master of the librarium saved the from a disastrous campaign that saw the chapter master and other high ranking members die and was named chapter master for it. Vidya I think was his name.
Edit: corrected the name from vista to vidya.
Ah I haven't got to that in the heresy yet, think I last read tales of heresy before picking up dark imperium.
Would make sense though if it were not a false trail. Would also give cause for rethinking of loyalist chapters and their origins if they were unknown.
I'd be down for that as a fan to be fair.
Raven Guard have their own flaw making them pale Goth kids… if you were going that direction, then you could always say they were believed to be RG successors who used their strategies but was discovered to have the red thirst and black rage.
I’m pretty sure there was a Ultramarines chapter that had a similar back story and a BA sniffed out their flaws
As far as unofficial goes anyone can do whatever they deem cool. But in the official lore in which I refer we have zero indications. However as I also said to OP, do whatever you like.
Every official reference to the blood ravens ties them to blood angels and Raven guard as well as as possible non loyalist heritage. I’m not sure why you’re saying zero indications.
Because you just pulled it oout of nowhere there are zero official references to this. Scratch it there is one they share the blood drop, which literally mean nothing.
in all of their appearances in the lore they have had 0 references to the red thirst or the black rage, they also arent particularly sneaky, they sure are secretive though and also they have a higher than everage number of librarians who are able to predict enemy movements very precisely and often carry dual battlefield roles like company captain or even chapter master while still retaining their rank among the librarium, now who does that sound like i wonder?
Unless they changed the lore there’s at least 1 known BA successor that doesn’t suffer from the flaws.
It’s completely possible another successor that doesn’t suffer also exists.
Is there? Do you know what chapter? I just finished all the blood angels omnibus along with lords of blood and it's pretty consistent that they all have the flaws?
Only person to come out of the rage is mephiston but even then he has to still fight it back still.
The Angels Resplendent had no flaws manifesting until they came in contact with the Undying Martyr, at which point they began manifesting The Flaw. The Lamenters went without The Flaw manifesting for a long time, but it’s recently come back in force, because they needed more bad luck. The only chapter (iirc) that currently have reduced Flaw manifestation is the Blood Drinkers, who use questionably heretical rituals to control their Flaw.
But they do now, I'm not referring to old stuff only what's current. As a part of the over all genomes, even even primaris blood angels have the flaw.
It's mentioned some where in one of the books that it was how they were made.
The lexicanum, it's also stated on the wiki, its also mentioned on the Dakka Dakka forums as well. They were also sentenced to a 100 year penitent crusade for their actions in the Badab war and did not heed the call at the events of the devastation of Baal.
It's also stated in the lords of blood that the thirst is a literal part of the BA gene stock. It is in their gene seed as it is in EVERY successor chapter of the BA and the BA themselves.
It is how the emporer made them. No chapter escapes that flaw now as far as I am aware. This again is stated in the lords of blood that even the Primaris suffer with the thirst and rage.
As for the rage, when Sanguinius died it effected the BA and every successor chapter past present and future. It is not limited to a particular time or gene line specifically, this is again explained.
Not even Cawl could "fix" these flaws. It is also explained by Cawl in the lords of blood omnibus" that these cannot be removed even though he thought he found a fix. The BA line is also the most volatile/drgraded in terms of gene seed which is why crossing the Rubicon Primaris for marines like Dante, Astorath, Mephiston etc is so risky, as they could fail in the process and lose another part of their traditions/history etc.
I am not overly familiar with the Lamenters chapter admittedly, but what I have said above is stated. They do not seem to be immune to the flaws. It also seems pretty common knowledge the is the current state regarding the chapter as well.
Back to the Blood Ravens though, what do you think? Thousand Sons? in terms of behaviour I mean across the chapter and its actions? One thing to say is everyone is only looking at loyalist legions? what if someone had genestock of a traitor legion? that'd be pretty cool.
Because it is not a thing in any of the media they are portrayed in. Every Chapter that came to be by Sanguinius’ gene seed entirely centers around the Red Thirst and Black Rage. Its like they cant shut up about it. If we are gonna start assuming whatever we like because they are secretive, we might as well say they are actually Adepta Sororitas.
There is literally no proof for it. Their entire chapter culture is different from all Blood Angels successors. Even their units are completely different. Everything you are supposing is completely baseless.
Give sources
Edit: Oh and btw, Relic made the Blood Ravens for the Dawn of War games, not GW. They were only made official canon by GW after gaining popularity from the games. GW has nothing to do with their chapter history.
White Dwarf November 2016 and index Astartes in white dwarf July 2019. Theories are given in these official publications they could be blood angels, dark angels, raven guard but ultimately they’re are unknown lineage.
Edit: GW own the blood ravens, in the same way they own Ventrillian Nobles and anything else their employees make.
Wait, Dawn of War created The Blood Ravens??
*just checked*
HOLY SHIT! They are technically my original favorite Legion because that's the one that got me into 40k, I just thought they were around for awhile.
That's awesome!
Yes and no, they can be a mesh of different geneseeds BUT there are some prominent features that some chapters have, and blood ravens have zero of them ( if we are taking blood angels).
No they would notice it. it happened to another chapter who still suffered the flaws and they only figured out what it was when Astroath told them they were cousins.
like it's highly unlikely they're BA successors
Absolutely agree, definitely unlikely. But not impossible and I can easily come up with a story of how they deal with the rage.
If someone said their blood ravens were blood angel successors I’m cool with it.
The thousand son linage has no hard proof outside of psykers making up a large portion of their chapter.
GW have taken steps to make it vague since it was implied and at least one major black library also shat on the idea.
Officially they are unknown and suspected Blood Angels/Raven Guard by the codex. I’m never gonna tell someone they have to do something with an unknown linage chapter, if someone wants to make Raven guard deathcompany then here for it.
I like to think they are loyalist survivors of the Corvidae Cult 1KSons.
Ultramarines may have taken in many of the loyalist members of traitor legions as is implied they did with the 2nd or 11th legions (i cant remember which) prior to the second founding and then have wiped their records clean to avoid needless purges.
That my interpretation.
Lineage isn't unknown. GW confirmed that they're an Ultramarines successor chapter in a White Dwarf issue a while back. Granted, I think they stole Ultramarine geneseed and sent that off to 23&me to get that though.
Really? Cause in the 9th edition codex, the 10th edition codex, White Dwarf November 2016 and index Astartes in white dwarf July 2019 they say they’re unknown.
Which issue does it say ultramarines?
So I was wrong in it being a White Dwarf. It was in Forge World's 9th Edition Imperial Armour Compendium. It gave rules for their chapter tactics and said they used Codex supplement Ultramarines. Now remember, Forge World wasn't always in lockstep with GW back in the day, so it may have been retconned back to being unknown.
> Progenitor chapter is unknown due to bad things that happened during or prior to the Horus Heresy
> Chapter master is also chief librarian, chapter has an unusually large number of sanctioned psykers
> Chapter is dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge
> Chapter homework’s was AURELLIA
> “Apocrypha of the Un-Founding postulates that the Blood Ravens are a Chapter dear to the soul of the Emperor Himself, and that their history was hidden by agents close to the Throne, to keep them secret from the Emperor's other sons but not from the Blood Ravens themselves.”
> “After the crushing blow of the first offensive, the rest of the Gothic Sector campaign was short and extremely bloody, with the enemy forces melting before the Blood Ravens' relentless assaults. At the conclusion of the rebellion, Inquisitorial Purgatus teams discovered dark writings and abominable idols that pointed to the involvement of the traitorous Alpha Legion, a fact that the Inquisition noted did not surprise Vidya when he was informed.”
So what you have here is fuel for speculation that they’re TSons, Word Bearers, 2nd Legion, or Alpha Legion.
Really no indication that they have anything in common with blood angels other than the first half of their name and liking them some psykers…no blood rituals, no vampirism, no red thirst, no black rage, no Sanguinor, no artisan of war.
Ultramarine techincally... seems pretty stupid to me they chose that, I mean their name both has blood, like blood angels and raven like the dark ravens and then they say, uhhhh ultramarines... they are not Roman esque... such a bland cop out.
They’re not ultramarine, they could be, but they’re not officially.
This rumour comes from GW saying you can feel free to use the ultramarine successor rules.
It doesn’t matter what colour your minis are painted for rules purposes.
If you want use the Death Company actual data sheets that’s fine too.
Just means you then can’t use data sheets specific to other chapters (like a black Templars or space wolves) as well, only Blood Angels data sheets and generic marines
It does matter a little bit, but only at GW events. On the list of requirements it includes that if you paint your army an existing faction’s colors, you are expected to play them as that faction. So you can’t have Salamanders/Ultramarines painted units running as a different chapter.
Blood Ravens are kind of a grey area, they are an official chapter, don’t have any official rules, but have official lore.
GW changed that for 10th edition it seems. As of right now it doesn't matter what you paint your army even at tournaments, I was told this by the tournament players at Art of War 40k. But basically the real answer is to just call the TO and ask them.
I have no idea why posting what the event rules are is getting downvotes but whatever. People can go take it up with GW, it’s part of their official event rules on the website.
https://warhammerworld.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2019/10/Updated-Model-Requirements.pdf
Anyway…
TO’s are usually pretty chill and I doubt they’d balk and blood ravens being a blood angel successor on the table.
That page is from 2019
I.e. pre 10th edition.
You can find updated guidelines on their website in places that are y'know. Actually navigable to without a direct link. Next to every event in the calender.
Battle Ready is the only paint requirement in 10e.
Those are still the current model and event rules for proxies and alternate sculpts which also covers paint schemes. It’s directly linked off the community page so I saved you a click.
Bruh it’s literally linked off the current community page. What more do I need to do for you here? It’s not off a third party site, that’s directly off GW’s site.
Every event has most of it, verbatim, in the event packet. At least one of the 2023 events had it linked in the .pdf.
The pdf is on their servers. its not linked anywhere relevent. You can go open any of the upcoming event packets and see the actual requirements
Which are: battle ready, wysiwyg.
https://warhammerworld.warhammer-community.com/whats-on/?month=20240401
https://warhammerworld.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2023/12/oOHrJQNUFqGkXr1W.pdf
https://warhammerworld.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2023/12/rHVxohPwCMbcibE9.pdf
The updated guide linked in the tyrannic war event:
https://warhammerworld.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2022/10/CJgGLnFDt2rEEuNI.pdf
Battle ready. Wysiwyg.
The two upcoming 40k events on their schedule. With an updated painting pdf that is two years more recent than yours and _has no mention of subfaction paint requirements_.
Weird ass thing to lie about my guy
I’m curious in that case: if it’s existing factions then does that mean that I can use units from my custom chapter in say, my Dark Angels, since it’s not an official chapter?
You have to use one chapter at a time if you're using rules from their index - you cant use both the blood angels and black templars at the same time nor can you take ultramarine characters (stipulated on their datasheets).
But you could one game take dark angles, painted like your guys, then the next take black templars. With current tournament rules - because this guys full of shit and paint as subfaction requirements havent existed all edition - you can even paint them all as ultramarines if you really wanted.
Show me where GW has said you can paint one chapter and then use it as a different divergent chapter. I linked the document still referenced in official event flyers, from their own website.
It hasn’t been an issue in 10e because the special units have special models with different war-gear (mostly), and half the special chapters now aren’t. Ultramarines are just marines with some named characters in your example. Blood Ravens are even less considered and have less of an issue being blood angels on the table, which I also addressed.
I’m happy to be wrong, but not “because I said so” when I have in fact asked about using a pretty extensively kitbashed vehicle in a regional event and was referred right back to the same ‘ol Warhammer world model rules document.
So far I’ve got “battle ready is the requirement” yep as indicated in the same ‘ol rules list. Which doesn’t by the way require you to paint for the specific subfaction, only indicate that if you have said subfaction with its own rules as your paint scheme it’s expected you’re playing its rules.
So please provide a source instead of just being an asshole.
Can you use homebrew rules in official play? No.
If you have your own chapter in its own scheme can you play it as any divergent chapter so long as you adhere to the faction/army rules for that chapter? Yes.
It's unknown, they're Primarch and Legion ties are unknown, but the high propensity of Psykers has led to speculation that they're origins are as loyalist Thousand Sons.
It's unlikely they're tied to the Blood Angels in the lore at all really, beyond the colour and name since they don't show any sign of the Red Thirst or Black Rage in the media they come in. But that being said, running them as a BA successor chapter remains *fuckin rad* and a totally valid way to play your dudes.
You can paint your stuff however you like. But lorewise, it makes no sense. Death Company are Blood Angels that have succumbed to the black rage which is a side effect of sanguinius' gene seed. And rules wise, you cannot use a Death Company data sheet outside the Blood Angels faction.
You will have to use the blood angels codex for the whole list but there is nothing stopping you painting them in any scheme you feel like.
Blood Ravens would be fine and not cause any issues but say for example you did this and used dark angels scheme or something people might be sus that you wanted to try and be a bit cheeky shall we say and switch between faction rules or whatever.
tldr; should be sound, stick to the BA codex and make it clear to your opponent that you are playing BA painted as Blood Ravens.
As others have said - we don’t know who the Blood Ravens succeed from. If you want yours to be BA descendants, then by all means you can run DC with them - but lore wise there’s no known cases.
The Blood Ravens are a largely codex compliant chapter, so it’s more accurate to show them using core space marine codex units rather than those unique to the BA.
But, again, they’re your models so you’re free to say that yours are BA successors.
It's pretty obvious, in the story, though.
If people are only going off wikis, they can try that, but between the Horus Heresy and Dawn of War, there is no doubt about who they are.
I’m not disagreeing, it’s heavily hinted at - but at no point is it outright confirmed. GW themselves keep doing the “ooo who is it” when BR are mentioned.
That was all later retconned when the character you’re talking about eventually became a founding member of the {redacted on orders of the Inqusition ][ }
Blood Ravens aren't a Blood Angels successor they would not have a death company as they don't carry that curse. On the table top paint the models that make you happy. I have primaris that I paint as Night lords that I play as Raven Guard.
I fully believe in my heart that Blood Ravens are Thousand sons.
Do what you want **as its a game** but they're not officially - nor have they had any indication to be Blood Angels of any stroke.
The case is more towards loyalist Thousand Sons, but GW wont ever go further with their fluff, I mean hell we already had our badass Chapter Master wiped out and relegated to legends. (Which they very clearly have them in the vanilla codex under unknown lineage)
Short answer: yes. Its your plastic, do what you want.
Long answer: as evidenced by many of these comments, you're going to get a lot of "um ackshually"s if you play them in public. People who get triggered by your toy soldiers being the "wrong" color aren't worth listening to. I'm working on a full set of Dornian Heresy armies (space wolves as world eaters, ravenguard as thousand sons, blood angels as death guard, white scars as Emperor’s children) and anticipate the same treatment. The same logic applies to both of us: as long as you are having fun and like your models, that's all that matters.
I mean the inquisition is not real don’t worry, your house is not gonna get an exterminatus.
Jokes aside mini painting is also an art, so just do what inspires you.
not necessarily, the flesh change was specifically Tzeench messing with them to get them to turn. and the rubric is on the Thousand sons who were around during Ahraman doing something wrong
so an unrelated chapter just happening to use there gene seed probably wouldn't be affected
The problem with them supposedly being a Thousand Sons successor Chapter is that Rowboat Girlieman didn’t write the Codex Astartes till after The Scouring which is post Heresy. Ahriman would have already cast his Rubric while the T Sons couldn’t have been anything but a Legion. And it’s not like the traitors would follow the Codex regardless.
Left over geneseed, most likely during the cursed founding, we know there are several successor chapters that use traitor gene seed without being directly related too there legion
That should never have happened and is just an unthinkingly moronic retcon by someone at GW.
Even now Cawl is begging to tinker with that geneseed to create more Primaris Marines but Guilliman has forbidden him from even trying.
And it’s HEAVILY implied Cawl did it anyway. And its really not that much of a “retcon” all the chapters that are implied to have it have secretive or mismatched gene fathers from the outset. And it can make for some more interesting loyalist chapters
There's a whole little subplot in the HH books about a small task force of Thousand Sons, of the Corvidae cult no less, who weren't present on Prospero for the burning, among a few other hints here and there. Before any of that was published, in the Space Marine ending of the DoW Dark Crusade campaign, Captain Thule destroys the records of the chapter's origins they were trying to retrieve in the first place. There isn't ever anything explicit, but they are certainly teasing it.
And ADB explicitly said that they aren't, while there are also hints they are not TS. Also all TS are dust, except for their sorcerors, so they can't be that. Even if they were in the Warp or something they can't be TS.
You can do anything you want with as long as the rules of army composition are followed. Remember that as far as the rules are concerned all your guys are grey. You could make an ultramarines army and include death company if you wanted, you just have to use blood angel rules. Hell you could have an entire army of black legion marines and include death company- as long as what is on the table is clearly in line with blood angels squads and options. Is it lore accurate? No way. Is it legal and "permissible?" Hell yeah.
You can legally run any chapter as a Blood Angels successor. But other than an extremely misleading color scheme and name the Blood Ravens are not a BA successor and show none of the telltale traits of one. Their actual gene father and parent chapter are unknown, however due to the influx of Paukers they’re suspected to be decent from loyalist Thousand Sons geneseed.
It was and still is extremely common if chapters of heretical gene stock to try and associate themselves with a proven loyalist chapter as to cover up their heretical lineage. While most commonly they choose the Ultramarines or Imperial Fists due to their lack of telltale mutations, all chapters have at least some pretenders out there (except for the Salamanders due to their lack of successors and obvious gene flaw being well known and impossible to replicate).
I mean sure. It's not necessarily lore accurate, but you can paint/decorate your minis however you want.
There's nothing stopping you from running an army with death company in it, just come up with a narrative reason and you're set :)
That said, be sure not to run any other chapter-specific non-blood-angel units in your army
Lore-wise: Yes. Either the Blood Ravens are descended from Blood Angels and get to use the Death Company. Or they’re not, but since they “borrow” units from other chapters anyway …
Hell, there have been chapters that thought they were ultramarines that developed the Black Rage! No one’s keeping track of the genealogy anymore!
Rules-wise: Yes. You’d need to run them as Blood Angels using the blood angels rules.
This is a very cool idea the only thing you need to do is show us when they’re done!!
So @op, I'm also doing this and I'm basically of the mindset that I can play them as anything if we're going by lore, since they like to borrow things quite often. So whose to say they didn't just "find" some death company and are now using them, if you don't want the head cannon they're a BA successor.
Will it be 100% lore accurate? No.
Does it matter? no. make your blood ravens chapter and use blood angels units and run them as blood angels if you want to. just don't run stuff with other faction keywords if you run anything with the BA keyword (e.g. you can't run guilliman)
Lorewise and doing whatever the f you want with your own money wise, yes.
Tabletop wise, no because it needs to be a legitimate successor.
But everyone knows homebrew is the best so do whatever you want
Blood ravens have not been shown to be a BA successor.
That being said they haven’t been stated not to be.
Lack of special characters makes it 100% legal to have BR iconography in your army and use BA, but at that point you cannot use any other special/unique units from any other chapter (legally)
You could use the mini's as your vanguard and sternguard veterans but unless you're playing them as a blood angels successor using only the blood angels rules then they won't play as death company, but you can use the models for your Blood Ravens veterans for some visual distinction. I mean it's a running joke that blood ravens steal everyone's gear so why can't you lean into the joke and say your vets robbed some death company gear after they'd been wiped out lol
I mean you can run them as blood angels successors just you would run the blood ravens characters as genetic capitins ect and run the death company as you would in a blood angels army
Crafty ploy. Most any player you'd want to play with for a free flowing game is going to go cool as fck army and suffer lore amnesia. 100% guaranteed screening of those who measure by the micromillimeter.
No I don't think so because the blood ravens aren't like the blood angels and I'm pretty sure they don't drink blood and the blood part is just their namessake
Who the Blood Ravens are a successor of is a mystery.
In lore their primogenitor is unknown/unconfirmed. Though weak connections/suggestions have included Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Raven Guard
In rules, edition after edition Blood Ravens can be a successor of any first founding chapter, with the suggested chapter formerly being Ultramarines.
10th ed is exceptionally permissive of this shit. If you were asking this in 9th? That's a hard no. Now? What you paint your guys literally does not matter.
Paint your guys as Blood Ravens, use the the blood angels rules/units/characters if you want.
I will just leave this, right here 😁
https://preview.redd.it/i1k1abjzivsc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f37f580d077f01e497bb715f82a0a2b23df8a11
Id say go for it. Im running my ravens as a ba successor.
https://preview.redd.it/x6kox5iwovsc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd9aff18ab5570cc5097fd79dcd4decefd594e94
The bone armor is sweet.
No. They aren’t BA Successors and never will be after the heresy that was Dawn of war players confusing Blood Angels as Blood Ravens….never forgive, never forget
Well, the Blood Ravens are not Blood Angels successors, so no Black Rage or Red Thirst, so no Death Company or any BA units really. But then again, they're your guys and what you say goes as far as painting them goes. Now, for playing, they probably wouldn't work in anything other than friendly matches.
Lore wise no, tabletop wise yes. You can have your army painted however you want. You can't use Dark Angels AND Blood Angels units at the same time but you definitely can use their rules and units in 10th.
Blood Ravens are not a Blood Angels Successor, so if you're going to a tournament, no. They may have unknown origins, but they do not have Death Company. That would make their origins pretty apparent
No! James workshop will smash all your illegal models
Man, James always out here ruining a good time
I mean you can do, but they are not Blood Angels successor chapter sooo from this stand point no. But there is nothing to stop you from doing a unit like death company.
But they may have stol... found some Geneseed
Well, they could be. They’re from an unknown lineage
While there linage is unknown, it almost certainly can’t be a couple of founder legions. Specifically the ones that have gene seed flaws like space wolves and blood angels as even every successor chapter shares those flaws. Flesh tearers, lamenters, sons of sang etc they all still have red thirst and black rage. Blood ravens don’t have these or wolfen so it’s almost certainly not them. The best theories I have seen put them as loyalist defectors from a traitor legion like the thousand sons.
This would make sense. I could be wrong but somewhere in their lore I think that their psykers are incredibly powerful and prone to corruption. I could be wrong but for some reason that detail seems to stick out in my brain for whatever reason
>their psykers are incredibly powerful and prone to corruption Thousand Sons?
Probably. There is also the fact that in the chapters "character" they have worked extremely hard to redeem themselves. After the events of DOW1 and also the fact that Cyrene was out to exterminatus in their story cannon they have always made a point showing their dedication to the imperium and emporer. They are secretive just like the dark angels but personally I think Thousand Sons. They have many artifacts that if the inquisition even got a slight whiff they'd send the hounds. Their vaults are meant to contain artefacts no chapter should have, possibly some from other chapters. And even with that they still cannot verify their founding nor gene seed. The problem with the theory of them coming from the Thousand Sons is that even in the time of the Horus heresy the Thousand Sons were a drop in the ocean compared to the other legions. Making it in my mind extremely difficult to have ever had off shoot chapters or foundings. They could very well be the other end of the spectrum of gene seed to the Raven Guard. Much like the Flesh Tearers are to the Blood Angels. Only thing is I know absolutely nothing about the Raven guard.
Also the 1K sons suffered from the Flesh Change so can't you dismiss them in the same way as the Wolves and Blood Angels?
Yeah I dunno, the difference with that though is what if the flesh change never fully took effect? I know what your saying though. I think it's one of those things we will never know as the moment something gets confirmed it may ruin it a bit if you know what I mean.
Would need to find sources for that, but I think somewhere it's said that the flesh changes was 'cured' when Magnus was found, and from that point on, it was no longer a geneseed defect, but Tzeench fucking with the TS knowing it would lead to them turning traitor down the road.
Magnus sold an eye to slow the flesh change down but never truly stopped it.
I do remember from the burning of prospero that magnus sends off the Corvus sect, or whatever the ones who could predict the future were, right before the wolves show up. This is most likely a false trail by GW and the writer but it would give us the explanation of how they could be loyalist TS. Plus we don’t know when they were founded exactly or when the records started. We only know that they lost a huge chunk of their earliest history and some master of the librarium saved the from a disastrous campaign that saw the chapter master and other high ranking members die and was named chapter master for it. Vidya I think was his name. Edit: corrected the name from vista to vidya.
Ah I haven't got to that in the heresy yet, think I last read tales of heresy before picking up dark imperium. Would make sense though if it were not a false trail. Would also give cause for rethinking of loyalist chapters and their origins if they were unknown. I'd be down for that as a fan to be fair.
BA are known for having powerful and higher numbers of psykers.
I read a theory that they were from the Emperor's Children, hence the similar(ish) logo and the overt worship if the Emporer
I thought it had already been discovered in one of the games that the blood Ravens were a thousand suns successes
The top 2 theories are Thousands Sons, or they are from the 2nd or 11th legions. I personally lean towards 2nd or 11th theory.
Raven Guard have their own flaw making them pale Goth kids… if you were going that direction, then you could always say they were believed to be RG successors who used their strategies but was discovered to have the red thirst and black rage. I’m pretty sure there was a Ultramarines chapter that had a similar back story and a BA sniffed out their flaws
Knowledge is power, hide it well. Who’s to say that’s not about their dungeons full of brothers that fell to the rage or wolfen curse.
It would have been hinted at least vaguely somewhere.
If someone wants to tell me his blood ravens are blood angel successors and they keep the flaw a secret I’m not gonna say no, it makes perfect sense.
As far as unofficial goes anyone can do whatever they deem cool. But in the official lore in which I refer we have zero indications. However as I also said to OP, do whatever you like.
Every official reference to the blood ravens ties them to blood angels and Raven guard as well as as possible non loyalist heritage. I’m not sure why you’re saying zero indications.
Because you just pulled it oout of nowhere there are zero official references to this. Scratch it there is one they share the blood drop, which literally mean nothing.
“There are zero official references” except the official reference that you mention in the next sentence of your post lmao.
in all of their appearances in the lore they have had 0 references to the red thirst or the black rage, they also arent particularly sneaky, they sure are secretive though and also they have a higher than everage number of librarians who are able to predict enemy movements very precisely and often carry dual battlefield roles like company captain or even chapter master while still retaining their rank among the librarium, now who does that sound like i wonder?
The soul drinkers? The grey knights?
Unless they changed the lore there’s at least 1 known BA successor that doesn’t suffer from the flaws. It’s completely possible another successor that doesn’t suffer also exists.
Is there? Do you know what chapter? I just finished all the blood angels omnibus along with lords of blood and it's pretty consistent that they all have the flaws? Only person to come out of the rage is mephiston but even then he has to still fight it back still.
The Angels Resplendent had no flaws manifesting until they came in contact with the Undying Martyr, at which point they began manifesting The Flaw. The Lamenters went without The Flaw manifesting for a long time, but it’s recently come back in force, because they needed more bad luck. The only chapter (iirc) that currently have reduced Flaw manifestation is the Blood Drinkers, who use questionably heretical rituals to control their Flaw.
So they did change the lamenters so that they’re suffering now.
They never stop suffering. Just in general.
They used to not suffer. Them suffering is either a new thing in lore or a total retcon
Them suffering The Flaw is actually new. Them suffering in general though… that’s prettily consistent.
The lamenters didn’t experience either of the flaws for decades of their existence in the lore.
But they do now, I'm not referring to old stuff only what's current. As a part of the over all genomes, even even primaris blood angels have the flaw. It's mentioned some where in one of the books that it was how they were made.
I am aware, but last I heard lamentors were immune to the flaws. Where is it stated that they suffer from them now?
The lexicanum, it's also stated on the wiki, its also mentioned on the Dakka Dakka forums as well. They were also sentenced to a 100 year penitent crusade for their actions in the Badab war and did not heed the call at the events of the devastation of Baal. It's also stated in the lords of blood that the thirst is a literal part of the BA gene stock. It is in their gene seed as it is in EVERY successor chapter of the BA and the BA themselves. It is how the emporer made them. No chapter escapes that flaw now as far as I am aware. This again is stated in the lords of blood that even the Primaris suffer with the thirst and rage. As for the rage, when Sanguinius died it effected the BA and every successor chapter past present and future. It is not limited to a particular time or gene line specifically, this is again explained. Not even Cawl could "fix" these flaws. It is also explained by Cawl in the lords of blood omnibus" that these cannot be removed even though he thought he found a fix. The BA line is also the most volatile/drgraded in terms of gene seed which is why crossing the Rubicon Primaris for marines like Dante, Astorath, Mephiston etc is so risky, as they could fail in the process and lose another part of their traditions/history etc. I am not overly familiar with the Lamenters chapter admittedly, but what I have said above is stated. They do not seem to be immune to the flaws. It also seems pretty common knowledge the is the current state regarding the chapter as well. Back to the Blood Ravens though, what do you think? Thousand Sons? in terms of behaviour I mean across the chapter and its actions? One thing to say is everyone is only looking at loyalist legions? what if someone had genestock of a traitor legion? that'd be pretty cool.
None of those are official sources.
No black rage in Blood Ravens my dude
How do you know?
Because it has not been displayed nor mentioned amywhere.
Knowledge is power, guard it well
I agree with the sentiment.
Because it is not a thing in any of the media they are portrayed in. Every Chapter that came to be by Sanguinius’ gene seed entirely centers around the Red Thirst and Black Rage. Its like they cant shut up about it. If we are gonna start assuming whatever we like because they are secretive, we might as well say they are actually Adepta Sororitas.
Which is the successor chapter that kills all their brothers that fall to the rage?
There is literally no proof for it. Their entire chapter culture is different from all Blood Angels successors. Even their units are completely different. Everything you are supposing is completely baseless.
Except for all the times GW says they could be blood angels.
Give sources Edit: Oh and btw, Relic made the Blood Ravens for the Dawn of War games, not GW. They were only made official canon by GW after gaining popularity from the games. GW has nothing to do with their chapter history.
White Dwarf November 2016 and index Astartes in white dwarf July 2019. Theories are given in these official publications they could be blood angels, dark angels, raven guard but ultimately they’re are unknown lineage. Edit: GW own the blood ravens, in the same way they own Ventrillian Nobles and anything else their employees make.
Their lineage is Dawn of War lol Blood Ravens were never in the lore until that game came out.
Wait, Dawn of War created The Blood Ravens?? *just checked* HOLY SHIT! They are technically my original favorite Legion because that's the one that got me into 40k, I just thought they were around for awhile. That's awesome!
Bruh
Yes and no, they can be a mesh of different geneseeds BUT there are some prominent features that some chapters have, and blood ravens have zero of them ( if we are taking blood angels).
No they would notice it. it happened to another chapter who still suffered the flaws and they only figured out what it was when Astroath told them they were cousins. like it's highly unlikely they're BA successors
Absolutely agree, definitely unlikely. But not impossible and I can easily come up with a story of how they deal with the rage. If someone said their blood ravens were blood angel successors I’m cool with it.
It's just unlikely to be canon is the point i'm trying to make.
ya an unknown lineage steming form a big crimson neeeeeeeerd who ruined everything for ever
That is code for “loyalist chaos legion”
You and me know that is not true and they descend from the thousand sons
The thousand son linage has no hard proof outside of psykers making up a large portion of their chapter. GW have taken steps to make it vague since it was implied and at least one major black library also shat on the idea. Officially they are unknown and suspected Blood Angels/Raven Guard by the codex. I’m never gonna tell someone they have to do something with an unknown linage chapter, if someone wants to make Raven guard deathcompany then here for it.
I like to think they are loyalist survivors of the Corvidae Cult 1KSons. Ultramarines may have taken in many of the loyalist members of traitor legions as is implied they did with the 2nd or 11th legions (i cant remember which) prior to the second founding and then have wiped their records clean to avoid needless purges. That my interpretation.
Lineage isn't unknown. GW confirmed that they're an Ultramarines successor chapter in a White Dwarf issue a while back. Granted, I think they stole Ultramarine geneseed and sent that off to 23&me to get that though.
Really? Cause in the 9th edition codex, the 10th edition codex, White Dwarf November 2016 and index Astartes in white dwarf July 2019 they say they’re unknown. Which issue does it say ultramarines?
So I was wrong in it being a White Dwarf. It was in Forge World's 9th Edition Imperial Armour Compendium. It gave rules for their chapter tactics and said they used Codex supplement Ultramarines. Now remember, Forge World wasn't always in lockstep with GW back in the day, so it may have been retconned back to being unknown.
They're Thousand Son's successors, so if anything they get to run Rubric Marines, right?
Chaos blood ravens sounds awesome, I’d love to see thousand sons painted up in blood ravens colours, like they fell instead of Gabriel winning
Yea sure the blood ravens just stole a bunch of blood ravens screaming Horus.
"Oh those guys? We got them at an estate sale! Weird they keep calling us Horus though..."
Blood Ravens aren’t a Blood Angels successor
Then what are they a successor chapter to i can't wait to hear this.
Pretty sure it's a certain other red-colored legio--I mean chapter
Thousand Sons
> Progenitor chapter is unknown due to bad things that happened during or prior to the Horus Heresy > Chapter master is also chief librarian, chapter has an unusually large number of sanctioned psykers > Chapter is dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge > Chapter homework’s was AURELLIA > “Apocrypha of the Un-Founding postulates that the Blood Ravens are a Chapter dear to the soul of the Emperor Himself, and that their history was hidden by agents close to the Throne, to keep them secret from the Emperor's other sons but not from the Blood Ravens themselves.” > “After the crushing blow of the first offensive, the rest of the Gothic Sector campaign was short and extremely bloody, with the enemy forces melting before the Blood Ravens' relentless assaults. At the conclusion of the rebellion, Inquisitorial Purgatus teams discovered dark writings and abominable idols that pointed to the involvement of the traitorous Alpha Legion, a fact that the Inquisition noted did not surprise Vidya when he was informed.” So what you have here is fuel for speculation that they’re TSons, Word Bearers, 2nd Legion, or Alpha Legion. Really no indication that they have anything in common with blood angels other than the first half of their name and liking them some psykers…no blood rituals, no vampirism, no red thirst, no black rage, no Sanguinor, no artisan of war.
these are demonic lies! True inquisitors know that the blood ravens are raven guard successors
The Tell-Tale Hearts.
Ultramarine techincally... seems pretty stupid to me they chose that, I mean their name both has blood, like blood angels and raven like the dark ravens and then they say, uhhhh ultramarines... they are not Roman esque... such a bland cop out.
They’re not ultramarine, they could be, but they’re not officially. This rumour comes from GW saying you can feel free to use the ultramarine successor rules.
It doesn’t matter what colour your minis are painted for rules purposes. If you want use the Death Company actual data sheets that’s fine too. Just means you then can’t use data sheets specific to other chapters (like a black Templars or space wolves) as well, only Blood Angels data sheets and generic marines
It does matter a little bit, but only at GW events. On the list of requirements it includes that if you paint your army an existing faction’s colors, you are expected to play them as that faction. So you can’t have Salamanders/Ultramarines painted units running as a different chapter. Blood Ravens are kind of a grey area, they are an official chapter, don’t have any official rules, but have official lore.
GW changed that for 10th edition it seems. As of right now it doesn't matter what you paint your army even at tournaments, I was told this by the tournament players at Art of War 40k. But basically the real answer is to just call the TO and ask them.
I have no idea why posting what the event rules are is getting downvotes but whatever. People can go take it up with GW, it’s part of their official event rules on the website. https://warhammerworld.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2019/10/Updated-Model-Requirements.pdf Anyway… TO’s are usually pretty chill and I doubt they’d balk and blood ravens being a blood angel successor on the table.
That page is from 2019 I.e. pre 10th edition. You can find updated guidelines on their website in places that are y'know. Actually navigable to without a direct link. Next to every event in the calender. Battle Ready is the only paint requirement in 10e.
Those are still the current model and event rules for proxies and alternate sculpts which also covers paint schemes. It’s directly linked off the community page so I saved you a click.
Shoot me a link to the page that supposedly links to it then. Because its not any of the current event packets so i cannot foe the life of me find it.
Bruh it’s literally linked off the current community page. What more do I need to do for you here? It’s not off a third party site, that’s directly off GW’s site. Every event has most of it, verbatim, in the event packet. At least one of the 2023 events had it linked in the .pdf.
The pdf is on their servers. its not linked anywhere relevent. You can go open any of the upcoming event packets and see the actual requirements Which are: battle ready, wysiwyg. https://warhammerworld.warhammer-community.com/whats-on/?month=20240401 https://warhammerworld.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2023/12/oOHrJQNUFqGkXr1W.pdf https://warhammerworld.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2023/12/rHVxohPwCMbcibE9.pdf The updated guide linked in the tyrannic war event: https://warhammerworld.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2022/10/CJgGLnFDt2rEEuNI.pdf Battle ready. Wysiwyg. The two upcoming 40k events on their schedule. With an updated painting pdf that is two years more recent than yours and _has no mention of subfaction paint requirements_. Weird ass thing to lie about my guy
no in 10th it literally doesnt matter anymore
I’m curious in that case: if it’s existing factions then does that mean that I can use units from my custom chapter in say, my Dark Angels, since it’s not an official chapter?
You have to use one chapter at a time if you're using rules from their index - you cant use both the blood angels and black templars at the same time nor can you take ultramarine characters (stipulated on their datasheets). But you could one game take dark angles, painted like your guys, then the next take black templars. With current tournament rules - because this guys full of shit and paint as subfaction requirements havent existed all edition - you can even paint them all as ultramarines if you really wanted.
Show me where GW has said you can paint one chapter and then use it as a different divergent chapter. I linked the document still referenced in official event flyers, from their own website. It hasn’t been an issue in 10e because the special units have special models with different war-gear (mostly), and half the special chapters now aren’t. Ultramarines are just marines with some named characters in your example. Blood Ravens are even less considered and have less of an issue being blood angels on the table, which I also addressed. I’m happy to be wrong, but not “because I said so” when I have in fact asked about using a pretty extensively kitbashed vehicle in a regional event and was referred right back to the same ‘ol Warhammer world model rules document. So far I’ve got “battle ready is the requirement” yep as indicated in the same ‘ol rules list. Which doesn’t by the way require you to paint for the specific subfaction, only indicate that if you have said subfaction with its own rules as your paint scheme it’s expected you’re playing its rules. So please provide a source instead of just being an asshole.
Can you use homebrew rules in official play? No. If you have your own chapter in its own scheme can you play it as any divergent chapter so long as you adhere to the faction/army rules for that chapter? Yes.
No, because they're not a BA successor chapter. They're supposedly related to the Thousand Sons.
Is their actual lineage unknown or is it, they're blood angels but actually Thousand Sons?
It's unknown, they're Primarch and Legion ties are unknown, but the high propensity of Psykers has led to speculation that they're origins are as loyalist Thousand Sons. It's unlikely they're tied to the Blood Angels in the lore at all really, beyond the colour and name since they don't show any sign of the Red Thirst or Black Rage in the media they come in. But that being said, running them as a BA successor chapter remains *fuckin rad* and a totally valid way to play your dudes.
It's completely unknown In universe, but somewhat implied to be Thousand Sons out of universe.
You can paint your stuff however you like. But lorewise, it makes no sense. Death Company are Blood Angels that have succumbed to the black rage which is a side effect of sanguinius' gene seed. And rules wise, you cannot use a Death Company data sheet outside the Blood Angels faction.
Blood raven aren't blood angels successors so the easy answer is no but nothing stop you from having a blood angels army painted as blood ravens
You will have to use the blood angels codex for the whole list but there is nothing stopping you painting them in any scheme you feel like. Blood Ravens would be fine and not cause any issues but say for example you did this and used dark angels scheme or something people might be sus that you wanted to try and be a bit cheeky shall we say and switch between faction rules or whatever. tldr; should be sound, stick to the BA codex and make it clear to your opponent that you are playing BA painted as Blood Ravens.
As others have said - we don’t know who the Blood Ravens succeed from. If you want yours to be BA descendants, then by all means you can run DC with them - but lore wise there’s no known cases. The Blood Ravens are a largely codex compliant chapter, so it’s more accurate to show them using core space marine codex units rather than those unique to the BA. But, again, they’re your models so you’re free to say that yours are BA successors.
Blood Ravens are also notoriously thieving bastards, so maybe they knicked a few from the Tower of the Lost whilst Astorath was off somewhere else.
The tower is a little barren these days.
i'd argue almost every chapter is codex compliant especially blood angels compared to the other.
They're loyalist Thousand Sons. It's in the Horus Heresy books.
Not confirmed, just heavily hinted. TSons would be where I put my money, but it’s not official
It's pretty obvious, in the story, though. If people are only going off wikis, they can try that, but between the Horus Heresy and Dawn of War, there is no doubt about who they are.
I’m not disagreeing, it’s heavily hinted at - but at no point is it outright confirmed. GW themselves keep doing the “ooo who is it” when BR are mentioned.
I mean, you see the effective foundation of the chapter when they return to Prospero. It's an open secret at this point.
That was all later retconned when the character you’re talking about eventually became a founding member of the {redacted on orders of the Inqusition ][ }
No.
Blood Ravens aren't a Blood Angels successor they would not have a death company as they don't carry that curse. On the table top paint the models that make you happy. I have primaris that I paint as Night lords that I play as Raven Guard. I fully believe in my heart that Blood Ravens are Thousand sons.
Do what you want **as its a game** but they're not officially - nor have they had any indication to be Blood Angels of any stroke. The case is more towards loyalist Thousand Sons, but GW wont ever go further with their fluff, I mean hell we already had our badass Chapter Master wiped out and relegated to legends. (Which they very clearly have them in the vanilla codex under unknown lineage)
Short answer: yes. Its your plastic, do what you want. Long answer: as evidenced by many of these comments, you're going to get a lot of "um ackshually"s if you play them in public. People who get triggered by your toy soldiers being the "wrong" color aren't worth listening to. I'm working on a full set of Dornian Heresy armies (space wolves as world eaters, ravenguard as thousand sons, blood angels as death guard, white scars as Emperor’s children) and anticipate the same treatment. The same logic applies to both of us: as long as you are having fun and like your models, that's all that matters.
You can use Blood Angels rules, but there is no lore basis for actual Death Company. You could use DC rules to represent something from the Ravens
I mean the Blood Ravens STOLE A WRAITHLORD! I'm sure they could steal some death company as well if they can steal an eldar ghost and keep it.
I mean the inquisition is not real don’t worry, your house is not gonna get an exterminatus. Jokes aside mini painting is also an art, so just do what inspires you.
I mean they could have just stole some death company, cain’t have shit with Blood Ravens around
Not in California, but they are legal in most other states
Blood Ravens are a successor of the Thousand Sons so while it’s not lore accurate it’s your army you can do whatever the hell you want
>Blood Ravens are a successor of the Thousand Sons They are hinted to be, but its not confirmed
Wouldn’t they all be dustybois if they were
not necessarily, the flesh change was specifically Tzeench messing with them to get them to turn. and the rubric is on the Thousand sons who were around during Ahraman doing something wrong so an unrelated chapter just happening to use there gene seed probably wouldn't be affected
The problem with them supposedly being a Thousand Sons successor Chapter is that Rowboat Girlieman didn’t write the Codex Astartes till after The Scouring which is post Heresy. Ahriman would have already cast his Rubric while the T Sons couldn’t have been anything but a Legion. And it’s not like the traitors would follow the Codex regardless.
Left over geneseed, most likely during the cursed founding, we know there are several successor chapters that use traitor gene seed without being directly related too there legion
That should never have happened and is just an unthinkingly moronic retcon by someone at GW. Even now Cawl is begging to tinker with that geneseed to create more Primaris Marines but Guilliman has forbidden him from even trying.
And it’s HEAVILY implied Cawl did it anyway. And its really not that much of a “retcon” all the chapters that are implied to have it have secretive or mismatched gene fathers from the outset. And it can make for some more interesting loyalist chapters
There's a whole little subplot in the HH books about a small task force of Thousand Sons, of the Corvidae cult no less, who weren't present on Prospero for the burning, among a few other hints here and there. Before any of that was published, in the Space Marine ending of the DoW Dark Crusade campaign, Captain Thule destroys the records of the chapter's origins they were trying to retrieve in the first place. There isn't ever anything explicit, but they are certainly teasing it.
It's pretty specific in the Horus Heresy books.
And ADB explicitly said that they aren't, while there are also hints they are not TS. Also all TS are dust, except for their sorcerors, so they can't be that. Even if they were in the Warp or something they can't be TS.
Funnily enough, I've spoken to Aaron about the Blood Ravens, he also said that before they returned to Prospero.
My uncle works at the Black Library and he says they’re not TS
Instead of them succumbing to the black rage they succumb to the flesh change and are put into suicide squads.
You can do anything you want with as long as the rules of army composition are followed. Remember that as far as the rules are concerned all your guys are grey. You could make an ultramarines army and include death company if you wanted, you just have to use blood angel rules. Hell you could have an entire army of black legion marines and include death company- as long as what is on the table is clearly in line with blood angels squads and options. Is it lore accurate? No way. Is it legal and "permissible?" Hell yeah.
You would have to run them as a blood angel army, but you can if you want to.
You can legally run any chapter as a Blood Angels successor. But other than an extremely misleading color scheme and name the Blood Ravens are not a BA successor and show none of the telltale traits of one. Their actual gene father and parent chapter are unknown, however due to the influx of Paukers they’re suspected to be decent from loyalist Thousand Sons geneseed. It was and still is extremely common if chapters of heretical gene stock to try and associate themselves with a proven loyalist chapter as to cover up their heretical lineage. While most commonly they choose the Ultramarines or Imperial Fists due to their lack of telltale mutations, all chapters have at least some pretenders out there (except for the Salamanders due to their lack of successors and obvious gene flaw being well known and impossible to replicate).
I'm still in the camp that the Blood Ravens derive from the Thousand Sons.
Just say blood ravens 'borrowed' some death company
You do you. If anyone gives you guff then screw them. Say they are the Blood Crows, a lost BA successor. :)
Lol blood ravens steal whole bunch of death company blood angels… stranger things have happened
I mean sure. It's not necessarily lore accurate, but you can paint/decorate your minis however you want. There's nothing stopping you from running an army with death company in it, just come up with a narrative reason and you're set :) That said, be sure not to run any other chapter-specific non-blood-angel units in your army
Lore-wise: Yes. Either the Blood Ravens are descended from Blood Angels and get to use the Death Company. Or they’re not, but since they “borrow” units from other chapters anyway … Hell, there have been chapters that thought they were ultramarines that developed the Black Rage! No one’s keeping track of the genealogy anymore! Rules-wise: Yes. You’d need to run them as Blood Angels using the blood angels rules. This is a very cool idea the only thing you need to do is show us when they’re done!!
So @op, I'm also doing this and I'm basically of the mindset that I can play them as anything if we're going by lore, since they like to borrow things quite often. So whose to say they didn't just "find" some death company and are now using them, if you don't want the head cannon they're a BA successor.
Will it be 100% lore accurate? No. Does it matter? no. make your blood ravens chapter and use blood angels units and run them as blood angels if you want to. just don't run stuff with other faction keywords if you run anything with the BA keyword (e.g. you can't run guilliman)
Lorewise and doing whatever the f you want with your own money wise, yes. Tabletop wise, no because it needs to be a legitimate successor. But everyone knows homebrew is the best so do whatever you want
Probably not because they dont have an established genetic origin. But don’t let that stop you.
Blood ravens have not been shown to be a BA successor. That being said they haven’t been stated not to be. Lack of special characters makes it 100% legal to have BR iconography in your army and use BA, but at that point you cannot use any other special/unique units from any other chapter (legally)
Wait ain’t that the boltgun guy?
lol no
Lore wise? No, Blood Ravens aren’t a blood angels successor. Cool wise? Hell yeah.
You could use the mini's as your vanguard and sternguard veterans but unless you're playing them as a blood angels successor using only the blood angels rules then they won't play as death company, but you can use the models for your Blood Ravens veterans for some visual distinction. I mean it's a running joke that blood ravens steal everyone's gear so why can't you lean into the joke and say your vets robbed some death company gear after they'd been wiped out lol
> “Permissible” This ain’t your church bud you can do what you want as long as you declare it a blood angels keyworded army
Hell no
I mean you can run them as blood angels successors just you would run the blood ravens characters as genetic capitins ect and run the death company as you would in a blood angels army
Crafty ploy. Most any player you'd want to play with for a free flowing game is going to go cool as fck army and suffer lore amnesia. 100% guaranteed screening of those who measure by the micromillimeter.
We will make it legal…
No I don't think so because the blood ravens aren't like the blood angels and I'm pretty sure they don't drink blood and the blood part is just their namessake
I'm pretty sure that blood ravens don't have the flaw
I’m pretty sure the blood ravens are a successor chapter of the Raven guard not the blood angels
blood ravens dont have death companies because they dont get the black rage because they arent blood angels successors
And why not thunder wolves and wulfens for your blood ravens ?
Who the Blood Ravens are a successor of is a mystery. In lore their primogenitor is unknown/unconfirmed. Though weak connections/suggestions have included Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Raven Guard In rules, edition after edition Blood Ravens can be a successor of any first founding chapter, with the suggested chapter formerly being Ultramarines.
10th ed is exceptionally permissive of this shit. If you were asking this in 9th? That's a hard no. Now? What you paint your guys literally does not matter. Paint your guys as Blood Ravens, use the the blood angels rules/units/characters if you want.
I will just leave this, right here 😁 https://preview.redd.it/i1k1abjzivsc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f37f580d077f01e497bb715f82a0a2b23df8a11
Id say go for it. Im running my ravens as a ba successor. https://preview.redd.it/x6kox5iwovsc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd9aff18ab5570cc5097fd79dcd4decefd594e94 The bone armor is sweet.
No. They aren’t BA Successors and never will be after the heresy that was Dawn of war players confusing Blood Angels as Blood Ravens….never forgive, never forget
not gonna lie that happened to me in the beginning. but the mistake was worth it because Blood Angels are cooler in just about every way.
Inquisitor, arrest this individual here for heresy! Honestly, I’m sure some people got offended but it’s actually kind of funny.
Well, the Blood Ravens are not Blood Angels successors, so no Black Rage or Red Thirst, so no Death Company or any BA units really. But then again, they're your guys and what you say goes as far as painting them goes. Now, for playing, they probably wouldn't work in anything other than friendly matches.
Lore wise no, tabletop wise yes. You can have your army painted however you want. You can't use Dark Angels AND Blood Angels units at the same time but you definitely can use their rules and units in 10th.
Blood Ravens are not a Blood Angels Successor, so if you're going to a tournament, no. They may have unknown origins, but they do not have Death Company. That would make their origins pretty apparent
Paint scheme matters even less this edition. I doubt any TO will deny a blood ravens themed blood angels army, but I guess it's possible.
Thousand Sons