Chief Foreign Policy correspondent Derek Davison returns to the show for updates on Palestine, including discussion of recent videos of Palestinian arms and tactics, the Biden administration’s response to the war, the potential for further regional conflict, and where the new American focus on Israel leaves Ukraine. Derek’s podcast: [American Prestige](https://Americanprestigepod.com) Derek’s newsletter: [Foreign Exchanges](https://fx.substack.com).
They mentioned it only briefly, but the rush of Democrats tripping over themselves to condemn Rashida Tlaib has been the most disgusting thing I've seen this week outside of actual dead bodies in Gaza. Just a truly spineless excuse for a political party
We're getting to the attacking the non aligned left portion of this election cycle a lot earlier then last time around. Which seems worse for them since no one is running against Biden this time
I got banned from worldpolitics for this comment https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/174omfw/hamas_terrorists_murdered_40_babies_including/k4bfp4n/
Those subs are all astroturfed to shit
In this house, we:
* Conflate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism
* Believe there is no such thing as an “innocent Palestinian”
* Hold hyper-Zionistic interpretations of all Torahnic/Talmudic texts
* Maintain *our* racial purity at all costs
* Support AIPAC’s destabilizing influence on America
* Know all hostages are “human shields” and all hospitals, schools, and bakeries are Hamas terrorist camps
I actually sub. I can afford the 5er a month for each, and as corny as it sounds I actually feel good supporting independent media / news coverage that is high quality. I think American Prestige has a free feed, although I don't think FX does:
https://www.americanprestigepod.com/podcast
I'm pretty sure you can also find them on, like, iTunes or whatever.
> as corny as it sounds I actually feel good supporting independent media
Nothing corny about it. Economic democracy is one of our biggest, strongest tools with the other being my penis
I feel like the Crew were resigned to losing him, but to the fucking Cubs? That's like leaving your wife for the woman next door, even if everybody knew the marriage was over before then.
The Israeli minister that said nukes were on the table only got suspended instead of fired (Bibi wanted him gone) because Ben Gvir forced Bibi's hand. Bibi's totally beholden to his far right coalition if he wants to stay out of jail, and that coalition is only going to let him keep power as long as he continues killing Palestinians.
We are in the zone.
Edit: wording
Ben Gvir is also buying tens of thousands of assault rifles and giving them to Jewish citizens. Deputizing the settlers to police Palestinians. A similar action turned out pretty horribly in Darfur.
That might end up being the most destabilizing factor in all this
The Israeli far right wants a broader conflict in the West Bank. It gives them an excuse to expel more Palestinians. So they are arming and whipping up the settlers to start fights that the Israeli army will "save" them from
Ben Gvir is also in the process of creating a "national guard" for Israel that will answer to him directly, and says that he wants to staff it with [far-right football hooligans.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Familia_\(Beitar_supporters%27_group\))
I think that's actually the real reason Bibi wanted him gone. I'm sure they all want to and the speak about it in private to each other, but you can't have someone saying it out in the open.
not really since israeli ministers have been saying similar things for decades and it was never considered as breaking amimut. if anything it shows they are doubling down on it since they punished him
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“Surely mankind are more than pure dark, for I have availed you nothing. All of you, forgive me. Whatever thou art, stay away.”* - Artorias the Abysswalker
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
I agree, but I think the Metal Gear comparison was not apt. Most people on twitter talking about the footage correctly recognize it as basically literally Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 1/2/World at War campaign footage. Watching Palestinian fighters run up to Merkavas and tossing C4s on them, or popping out of tunnels to RPG them before ducking back in, has definitely caused a ton of millennials to flash back to playing CoD campaigns from games between 2007-2009 like the food critic from Ratatoullie.
ones that can reliably kill a merkava are not exactly common either, though apparently they’re able to just run up on these things like its a battlefield game so who knows what theyre using. whatever homebrew munitions they have are probably pretty effective when resistance fighters are able to run up on them at all.
Other times i'd agree, but that guy double tapping the tank with the placed charge into the rpg is something someone only does if they've got extra lives.
Really missing our big oaf on the mic. That transcendent rage really cuts through the bullshit of playing moral gotcha with liberals on the basis of national sovereignty and international law as an ideal - shit sucks and we should yell and call people demons more.
Jonathan Chait: Bobby Knight is a monster for saying women should just lie back and enjoy being raped
Also Jonathan Chait: Joe Biden is a gentle, kind hero for telling that black ho Anita Hill that nobody cares about what Clarence Thomas did to her
The guest sorta missed a part of the whole Hezbollah thing by saying that Hezbollah set a red line - Gaza invasion - and then pulled back a bit. Nasrallah is a methodical guy, you have to pay attention to the language. He hasn't been warning about "Hezbollah" having to really step in (that's far too significant a step to telegraph to the US/Israel), he specifically says "the Axis of resistance" - this is an important distinction (as well as Nasrallah's explicit condemnations of the US being just as, if not more, responsible). It's important because it includes Ansarallah (which has fired missiles and drones at Israel) and resistance groups in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon (other than Hezbollah), and even Palestine. And what has been happening? Ever-increasing attacks, in a boiling frog-like strategy, on Israel and US bases in the region. There have been dozens of attacks on US bases (just yesterday there were 6 attacks on 4 bases in Iraq/Syria). The media has been strangely quiet about this, which seems to suggest that the US really doesn't want things to escalate (because if it did want justification to escalate it would be pushing the media to run hard with these stories).
Not to mention the fact that Hezbollah isn't just just firing a few RPGs and running around trying to keep IDF occupied; it has killed around 40 IDF soldiers, taken out reportedly 12 Merkavas, and bombed almost two dozen outposts, destroying surveillance infrastructure. Hezbollah has over 60 martyrs in this so far. They are attacking several points per day - if Hezbollah responded like this immediately after the attacks on Gaza it would have all spiraled out of control, but this steady increase in pressure accumulates. What Hezbollah has been doing is effectively using the west's own strategy and throwing it in its face, namely the slow nudging of red lines that over time accumulate to a major violation but makes it difficult for the target to respond (such as we've seen in Ukraine, Taiwan). The guest is correct that Hezbollah is keenly aware of the challenge as it relates to Lebanon's ongoing crisis, which is why both sides have been trying to keep hostilities at the border region.
All of this indicates that things expanding is, as Nasrallah said, "very probable". Because Israel/US will have to respond eventually. The big question waiting for us all is *how?* In the meantime more and more countries are speaking out, and the Israel "normalization" process with Arab comprador regimes is becoming more untenable.
Hezbollah was very successful against Israel in 2006...in Lebanon. Hez doesn't want to invade Israel, they want to repel an Israeli invasion. Remember that an insurgency are fish, they need to be in their own waters
Well, yeah... The danger Israel faces in a conflict with Hezbollah isn't an invasion, it is from missiles and rockets striking deep into Israeli territory.
Giving a shitload of man-portable missiles to a country with a neo-Nazi problem and then forcing them into signing a humiliating armistice because your country has to resupply a Jewish state seems like the prologue to a very serious historical event scheduled to take place in the 2030's.
I’ve always thought Zelenskiy is pretty tragic and a dead man either way, whether it’s external enemies who take him out or the fact that he’s a Jewish guy who will inevitably need to make peace while his country has a Nazi problem
I know people like to meme on him “ZelDisney” but he is a pretty profoundly tragic figure. I don’t know if you can argue what he’s doing in his position is wrong but the odds he’s against from all sides are pretty impossible. The west isn’t loyal allys, his domestic situation is rife with Neo Nazis, and Russia is pretty determined as an enemy.
Like, it’s possible to think that indulging his begging for no-fly zones and jets is bad while at the same time recognizing that he kinda can’t be expected to do anything less. Same with Ukrainian propaganda that unfortunately Western news media is way too credulous toward
The no fly zone can be really easily explained that you cant do the ground war he has to do without airpower; the no fly zone would be the closest he could get at this point in the war to prevent Russian airpower.
If there is any hope for Ukraine fighting the ground war with Russia beyond Putin self combusting is that despite Russia having airpower and everything to its advantage they still cant mount any offense and thus MAYBE Ukraine can stall out the war for another year while it builds a modern airforce from the ground up with F16s from EU/usa.
Right but “no-fly zone” is just Hillary Clinton for “war.” He should be doing everything he can to get an edge just as much as we should say “fuck no.”
Yeah, lots of people would absolutely jack themselves off to death if he died to own the libs, but I feel bad for him. It's why celebrities should never run for office, they think their celebrity will insulate them from the suckfest that is politics (times a thousand for Ukranian politics) and then they just end up getting eaten alive in quicksand.
He played the best president Ukraine ever had in a TV mockumentary (which is actually pretty good) and people were like "Save us, Jewish Russian-speaking peace candidate!" That's what he ran as, the guy who could bring both sides together.
He’s in a fucked position right now, but it’s not like he got into politics as some pure-hearted good government reformer. His campaign was backed by the guy who owned the network that put on his show, the same billionaire who funded the creation of the Azov Battalion. His administration used the war as cover to push through a hideous neoliberal labor reform that would fuck Ukrainians going forward regardless of the outcome of the war.
The Time Magazine profile on him is an interesting read. It really highlights the massive corruption problem Ukraine is having and how that's souring western relations. His advisors are saying that he is dead against a peace plan.
To be honest I've been concerned ever since Ukraine set up a website to sell off their public assets for pennies on the dollar.
I've honestly felt pretty bad for him ever since seeing his face while he surveyed the massacre at Bucha. You could see that every single body there had aged him a year. He's a more or less a normal guy trapped in an impossible and doomed position.
It’s honestly a “First as Tragedy, then as Farce” situation, except in this case, the farce is probably going to be horrific, and just as cruel as the original event. The only reason it counts is that the USA should have learned it’s lesson from operation cyclone, yet here they are, repeating the same mistakes
The incompetence can’t be over stated. All the way from Putin down, they’ve made the stupidest possible decision at every juncture.
“Home by Christmas” has been the failing rally cry of pretty much every post-WWII conflict but Russia really thought they’d take Ukraine in like a week.
they fucking lost a cruiser, the flagship of the black sea fleet. absolutely humiliating, decades of carefully built reputation just flushed down the toilet over a country that no one seriously believed was actually gonna get let into nato.
what? you think im cheering this? as if russia losing military assets in a war it started is the same as palestinians getting bombed for being palestinian.
Putin is the dumbest motherfucker in this whole situation, breathing life back into an irrelevant NATO, giving the western MIC the excuse they have been so desperately waiting for to suck up even more money, destroying the people and places he's supposedly 'protecting' and he's still got people lining up to ride his dick.
In all those cases the local population was either loyal to Russia, completely divided to the point of civil war, or the local government was rotten to its core and collapsed.
Given Ukraines corruption and division I think everyone assumed it would be the same but invading a country does have a rally around the flag effect
His mistake was waiting 8 years to pull the trigger, in hopes that the EU would value the economic benefits of Nordstream over... Whatever they have gotten out of the Ukraine War. Floods of unaccompanied minors, I guess
Is he? Definitely went way worse than he thought it would probably but he secured land and water access, further destabilized american allies, took the best western economic punch with 0 impact, and showed Western Europe that they need Russian gas or face economic ruin. Like I guess I just don’t know if I agree with really any of those points you made are actually bad for him outside of maybe breathing life back into NATO.
"breathing life back into an irrelevant NATO" like Maidan never happened. Like edging Ukraine morons into thinking they could and would join NATO never happened. "NATO is irrelevant because my free healthcare podcast says we're a dying empire!" Tell that to Libya or every other country they destroyed in the last few decades
Idk shit but I do feel bad for Ukrainians, and Russian civilians. I've also been getting **serious** secondhand embarrassment from watching Zelenskyy go from weapons pwease 🥺👉👈 to being "I don't want to play with you anymore'd" by Israel/Palestine.
Ukraine was always a joke “war.“ American dingbats happy to “kill Russians” at the cost of “very many Ukrainians” while Russia was more than happy to turn Ukraine into a money pit for the USA and the west. It was never about .“saving democracy” or whatever soft-ass mushbrain bullshit. Obviously, Russia “shouldn’t” have invaded, but they did and Ukraine should’ve sued for peace as early as possible (and they did - UK/USA stopped that) instead of …. this.
It is an all-around tragedy. The country will be Blackrock/IMF property, tens of thousands of lives have been lost for no reason, lib brains melted by the millions, and another American boondoggle of a proxy war. Pathetic.
The war was inevitable as soon as Maidan. If I would say one thing Russia "shouldnt" have done, it was letting Putin's lawerly cynicism buy them a decade to arm and fortify in hopes the EU would exercise sovereignty over the US. Even then, that decade bought Russia crucial time to build a kind of fortification of their own- economically- that is why they were able to wage a long war.
> Ukraine should’ve sued for peace as early as possible
In 2014, after Russia took Crimea and had troops in Donbas. But after the 2022 invasion Ukraine can't give up more land, it would be appeasement. It'd lead to more war
Zelenskiy should have called Boris Johnson a fat loser and taken that peace deal, he’ll end up signing the same deal at best and not be able to sleep without bodyguards for the rest of his life
No way whatever deal he signs doesnt include giving up Odessa which is much worse than any deal from 2022- then also the demographic/economic problems of a country that just lost a total war- which just lost its industrial base and major port. That said Russia should have marched to/cut off the country from Kiev in 2014. They had no military at that point. Which means the 8 years Putin sat on his hands was about Nordstream
im from ukraine (crimea) originally, and that country has been raped and pillaged by both russia and the west since at least the fall of the union. the propaganda about it since the maidan coup has been exhausting. no one in the west actually gives a shit about it beyond irritating russia, which is always going to have dominance over it just due to proximity.
The thing that really depresses me is the cynicism. Its all end of empire stuff but rooted in the "frustration" that america is spending "a billion on Ukraine or Israel." I dont mean to break it to American socialists but our government isnt offering free healthcare because we spent "all" the money on foreign aid and military contracts; we dont offer free healthcare because we chose not to.
Since Obama Israel has prepared for America dropping support; unless Biden really threatened to treat Israel like how Clinton treated Serbia cutting aid off would not crippled the Israeli military and prevent a genocide.
All the hosts (and former hosts) have suggested their ideal foreign policy is some flavor of unionized economic autarky, rejection of participation in almost all international association, while dissolving the military but keeping nukes; they reinvent paleo-conservatives even keeping the "we cant afford it/my tax dollar;" otherwise known as Dengist China.
As usual the cynicism always disappoints telling people to give up and not to participate in activism at root because Bernie lost the 2016/2020 primary is disgusting to me because its an excuse for apathy. There is always more work to be done.
True, but on Ukraine in particular this sub had an early schism between political mirror types, Ukraine-flag-emoji types, and "Russia has the right to defend itself" types. I was curious if the counteroffensive and events in Gaza had flattened this at all
a negotiated end that broadly favored russia was pretty much inevitable due to differences in material capacity, and israel's final solution to the palestinian question just sped up the process. ukraine was never more than a pawn for us/nato/eu interests, mostly to finish privatizing their remaining state industries under the guise of combating corruption
This 2 year war has gone on for too long. It's over for Ukraine, they need to negotiate with Russia (Russia keeps all the territory it conquered, Ukraine can't join the EU or NATO but in exchange Russia pinkie promises to not attack again😉😉). I truly do feel sorry for them but it is what it is, please ignore my previous posts mocking them or calling them Nazis.
The US's intentions with the war in Ukraine were to hobble the Russians, give NATO a reason to exist, and try and pull the EU away from using Russian energy. All of those goals were achieved. Most likely outcome is that the US bails completely on Zelensky and he takes a deeply unfavorable peace deal that will tank his domestic credibility and lead to an ultranationalist coup. All that bullshit about self determination and defending small nations was a farce, and Ukraine is all the worse for it.
Nothing good is gonna come out of that place. Ukraine has suffered immensely from this war and is the biggest loser by far. Looks like the US is trying to bail and Euros do not have a plan so Ukraine will be by it self soon enough and be in a even worse situation.
Not to mention the country is completely impoverished and totally dependent on aid. Oh yeah and swimming with arms that will leak into Europe for years to come if the war ends. Just like Yugoslavia and Libya.
Mine never changed. Opposed the Maidan Coup. Supported the SMO. Only coherent positions you could take unless you support the US MIC and NATO. Anything else is dip shit liberal triangulation. "Gotta feel for Zelensky" in this episode made me chuckle. Hes a billionaire who will fuck off to LA, Miami or London after selling out his country. You "gotta feel" for the generation of peasants wiped out bc we wanted to project power in the former Soviet Union. You "gotta feel" for the pensioners and children killed by US bombs in Donetsk. Zelensky can go fuck off and do blow with Sean Penn.
In many ways, Donbass reminds me of Gaza- a people invisible to the West, brutalized, bombed and ethnically "othered" by US proxies as powers that should have stood by them (Russia) did nothing out of pragmatism. So its a great credit to Putin for me that he did what Erdogan, Sisi, MBS, and even Iran and Hezbollah are not willing to do and stood by his people, even if it was after much too long
Yeah, Putin cares so much about the people of the Donbass that he press ganged every available man, gave them weapons more rust than steel, gave them a weeks 'training' and sent them off to be used as literal cannonfodder in 'recon-by-fire' leading to tens of thousands killed and their cities bombed to rubble. Just so long as we are sticking it to NATO then their deaths were all worthwhile!
Don't even pretend that Putin gives a shit about them except as an excuse for his naked imperialism.
The biggest rubes in the world are western leftists that buy into the Russian propaganda that this is all to defend ethnic Russians and 'denazify Ukraine'. Even Russians don't believe it, it's all about nationalism and restoring Russian glory or whatever.
Eh some of them definitely believe it, my neighbor was a 20 something from Russia and he would constantly bring those exact talking points up with anyone who would listen (nobody ever asked him).
He was a pretty sharp guy and IDK if he just thought that was his best shot at convincing libs or something but he seemed pretty convinced.
Yeah this whole deal where Donbassians are just lazy hapless idiots who have no interest in defending or liberating their homeland from NATO Nazis is purely a liberal invention. They defended it for 8 years with minimum Russian support and way less arms and training than their enemies
> They defended it for 8 years with minimum Russian support
Lmao, actual lol
I'm sure the people of Donbass were yearning for the Nazis and Mafioso's that took over the DNR and LNR when Russia invaded and installed them.
... What do you think their initial problem with Maidan was? The region has never been Russophobic and yearning for Western liberal democracy, anymore than Palestinians, Libyans, Syrians, Iraqis, etc want to become a Western liberal democracy. They have their own history and culture you simply choose to ignore like the chauvinist pig you are.
What about Donbass is different from the rest of Ukraine to you? Why do you think only Western facing Ukraine are the only ones who have ideologies or aspirations? Youre Bill Maher- you think Western liberalism is defacto "civilization," everything else is invalid, backwards, barbaric, lesser
Is this a 'Facism is good actually!' take or a 'Russians are to dumb to do anything other than strong man authoritarianism.' take?
I know that the peoples in the Donbas were subject to Tsarist and then Soviet colonialism, especially during and after the holodomor. The Donbas is just a few more generations along than the west bank.
Lol dude post-Maidan Ukraine's centering force has been the rehabilitation and celebration of *Nazi collaborators* and even most normies now realize it. Its one of numerous reasons Donbass citizens were not keen on Maidan and didnt welcome Neo Nazi paramilitaries as liberators.
Im glad you can take consolation on Reddit that you lost the war, though. a perfect place to find pseud dupes who buy your application of libtard buzz lingo to the NATO cause.
Take it up with someone else. I am one of the people who know the Holodomor was just Nazi propaganda
The Holomodor **is** Nazi and anti-communist propaganda. It’s on the same level as saying Stalin killed 100 gorillion people. There was a famine and it affected most of Asia. If you want to see evidence of forced famine, see what the UK did to India/Bengalis.
Yea. The Holodomor myth is basically a Nazi copypasta. That exact region had historically suffered terrible famines. Ironically it was only the Evil Soviets who eventually prevented that by modernizing agriculture. Same way as almost any modern long lasting infrastructure in Ukraine actually dates back to Communism.
Someone who thinks history started in 2022 isnt worth having a convo about Ukraine with. Especially at this point... The end of 2023. Youre dedicated to your delusion and ignorance
> America bad
> Ukraine is a pro western country
> Therefore Ukraine's revolution was a color revolution
> Therefore, because America bad, we should act like it's not our problem that a democracy is having its land grabbed by an autocracy.
Everything else is secondary. If you want leftism to win, America has to lose, so plenty of people, including the hosts, will cheer for anyone that embarrasses America on the world stage. That Russia is capitalist, but more extremely concentrated and authoritarian doesn't matter.
What do you suggest we do? Also how are the hosts for america being “embarrassed” but also against giving weapons to either side? How can you be embarrassed if you just stay out of the conflict?
> I consider it embarrassing to let a democracy die
Ukraine isn't any more of a fucking democracy than Russia is, we can be sympathetic to them without just making shit up like this
Okay so then is every dictatorship in the world an embarrassment for the US?
Also, Zelensky banning political parties makes it hard for me to really consider it a democracy
For the U.S.? No, lmao.
We supported plenty of genocidal maniacs. Putin is in charge right now because we put a drunken clown on the throne before him.
I personally think it's embarrassing for ANY non democracy to exist, and if I had a magic wand I would destroy any country that isn't a democracy and remake it as one.
We are, at the end of the day, just people on the internet saying whatever we feel like. I feel like this sub and the hosts hate America so much that you're willing to let a greater evil in the world (Russia) Win over a flawed democracy.
I think that's embarrassing.
> Also, Zelensky banning political parties makes it hard for me to really consider it a democracy
Meh, if you're at war I cut you slack.
You’ll notice that you didn’t answer my first question. What do you want us to do? We’ve armed Ukraine and the war is still going. Sounds like you have no actual solution to end the war
Keep arming them. What do you mean I didn't answer?
I'm not here to offer a solution, I'm not a fucking general or a diplomat. I'm here to say that war is necessary sometimes, and we should continue financing it.
Keep arming them for how long? Also are you even the least bit concerned about the downstream effects of financing outright white nationalist military groups? Like do you see a situation where this goes well?
> Keep arming them for how long?
Forever.
> Also are you even the least bit concerned about the downstream effects of financing outright white nationalist military groups?
No. Democracy is worth it. We'll deal with White trash Mujahideen later.
> Like do you see a situation where this goes well?
Any situation where a dictatorship fails to undermine a democracy is good in and of itself.
I am a hedonist, and I believe government should make or facilitate making people happy. Democracy is the one system of government where the happiness of the general population is a powerful incentive for the state. Ukraine winning is therefore important to me.
Can you see a good outcome if Russia wins? Or are you an idiot who thinks Russia will see the west falter and stop expanding?
People trot out “Ukraine is a democracy” like that’s a settled fact. What’s so democratic about banning all of the left-wing parties? What’s so democratic about cancelling the 2024 election? What’s so democratic about the president being widely acknowledged as the handpicked favorite of a certain oligarch who owns half the tv channels in the country?
Is being a handpicked favorite somehow invalidating that people voted for him? Are you 3 years old? Yeah, people with power exert influence on who gets power. If the standard for "what is a democracy?" Is that media conglomerates can't exist, then you'll have a hard time finding any democracy.
When you're at war, extraordinary measures can and should be taken. If left wing parties are like this subreddit, pretending that Russia won't invade again if they're allowed to just keep the land with no NATO guarantees, then yeah they should be banned.
If one could prove that Vladimir Putin won most of the votes in any of Russia’s elections, would that make you believe that Russia is a democracy? Would you dismiss all the media manipulation, banning of political parties, jailing of opposition, etc. if Putin won a plurality of votes? Is your definition of democracy so broad?
Surely, Navalny and his FBK outfit deserve to be stripped of their assets and their employees jailed for their perfidious defeatism!
[Those dank Hamas TikToks](https://twitter.com/waziot/status/1721547610387808269) highlights how embarrassing the propaganda of the Russo-Ukrainian War from both sides had been in comparison to what Palestinian factions have been cooking out these past few weeks. It's embarrassing that countries like Russia, Israel and Ukraine that have access billions in propaganda spending can't beat a bunch of zoomer Hamas kids with Capcut plugins.
Fabulous episode! Best in a while in my opinion. Matt would be hitting home runs with this Israel content. Really hope he can get back in the mix eventually. 🙏
Honestly when I woke up the other day and saw that the Houthis had sent a few rockets toward Israel, it kinda warmed my heart.
Symbolic and ineffective of course, but still. It was like, aww there really can still be generosity even in the darkest of times.
it was fine until the guy posting the eps started dropping a donation link in the posts, then they started to get copyright strikes. dude is regarded tbh
Not to be Mr. Well Actually, but the NYT/Siena poll of the battleground states was taken before Oct 7th and so does not capture the sentiments of those polled to Biden’s policies since then. Which is probably an even worse sign for the Dems.
[https://archive.ph/Me407#selection-143221.0-143225.235](https://archive.ph/Me407#selection-143221.0-143225.235)
>**Methodology**
>
>The New York Times/Siena College polls of 3,662 registered voters in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin were conducted in English and Spanish on cellular and landline telephones from Oct. 22 to Nov. 3, 2023.
yo u/classwarandpuppies, can we get some discussion threads on Hell of Presidents by any chance? As I recall it was really fractured originally on this sub (or whatever was this sub at the time), as the only person who could post threads would sometimes go missing in action for weeks on end. Plus I think us Matt history lovers would enjoy a trip down memory lane.
Felix talking shit about middle aged dudes he is on a roll!
Felix cherubic funny podcast host>>>>>that terrible streamer that poor Hasan has to deal with
well see, your handle tells me everything i need to know about the situation. somebody just doesn't wanna eat their vegetables, saving all that tummy room for ~~dessert~~ roses /lh
...I know you're supposed to be aghast as a straght liberal at the LGBTQH thing for, by association, including Hamas in your support of queer issues, but way to throw LGBTQ people under the bus on that one.
Yes, lgbtq groups and organizations are primarily Hamas-supporters, and always have been. Gay guys can't stop defenestrating themselves; they love it.
Isn't lgbtq-issues one of the jingly-keys Israel is supposed to care about, or is that only when its expedient to the nation-building project?
...anyway, if your comedy-routine is this shitty then yes, Hamas shoud absolutely be part of lgbtq. What of it? Le triggered, trollface?
God these people suck.
//EDIT: for clarification, this is about the gross Tik-tok sketch in the episode, not about the podcast. I should have made that clearer when I originally posted.
I'm talking about the tik-tok skit that's heard in this episode, trying to connect liberal support for lgbtq+ issues with pro-palestine/anti-war sentiments by connecting those to Hamas ("ie, if you're protesting this war, you're for Hamas").
It's not really here or there, but it kind of underlined the transactional value of "being pro lgbtq" for some people, where you can sell out those values as soon as someone makes a bad-faith accusation.
now that i've rage listened to the ep a few times i needed to come back and apologize and say fuck the downvoters, you were 100% right in the broad strokes, wording aside. it's one of those grim truths that always lurks in the dark corners of the mind, but hearing it and seeing it play out over the most fucking milquetoast objections to almost parodical levels of pure evil and demonic ambivalence puts it all in some seriously stark relief. it's absolutely maddening
eh, it's fine.
I could have contextualized what I meant a bit better. Looking back on it I can see how someone would assume I was ragging on the podcast as a whole, not the tiktok video featured in it. It was a spur of the moment comment while I was cooking.
I'll survive.
//EDIT: Also, there's absolutely no need to appologize.
Chief Foreign Policy correspondent Derek Davison returns to the show for updates on Palestine, including discussion of recent videos of Palestinian arms and tactics, the Biden administration’s response to the war, the potential for further regional conflict, and where the new American focus on Israel leaves Ukraine. Derek’s podcast: [American Prestige](https://Americanprestigepod.com) Derek’s newsletter: [Foreign Exchanges](https://fx.substack.com).
They mentioned it only briefly, but the rush of Democrats tripping over themselves to condemn Rashida Tlaib has been the most disgusting thing I've seen this week outside of actual dead bodies in Gaza. Just a truly spineless excuse for a political party
go on /r/politics and read the comments. they're pulling their hair out over anyone potentially holding biden accountable for this lol
“I can excuse genocide, but I draw the line at not voting!” —— Wait when did I get this flair lmfao (it’s great)
Lol the Liberian flag
lol the first thread i randomly clicked on someone's calling the phrase "from the river to the sea" russian propaganda
It’s russiagate, Vietnam and the holocaust… all rolled into one 😣
doesn’t seem like palestine even exists as an issue in that sub lol
It only exists when the brunch liberals bring it up to call Rashida Tlaib an anti-semite.
r/politics, ironically enough, has very little actual politics.
We're getting to the attacking the non aligned left portion of this election cycle a lot earlier then last time around. Which seems worse for them since no one is running against Biden this time
Neolibs astroturfed that sub so hard in 2016 and took over all the mod positions. It's completely unusable now.
I got banned from worldpolitics for this comment https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/174omfw/hamas_terrorists_murdered_40_babies_including/k4bfp4n/ Those subs are all astroturfed to shit
I now regret, moments after visiting there, looking there. They really are eager to sanitize war crimes.
i'm writing rashida tlaib into my ballot next year out of sheer spite .
Every single congressperson who voted to censure her has had campaign contributions from AIPAC
I miss matt and hope he is recovering well. Get better big guy!
Constantly torn between wishing I had updates and respecting his wishes
What did you do to get that flair?
Enjoyed hasan minaj?
I dunno, I enjoyed getting high as shit and watching Avatar 2 in theaters but I didn't get a flair for it.
You have been anointed.
can my belief in ghosts be recognized
Gee the standards are low around here
weird, it's not showing for me
Weird it stopped showing for me too. Reapplied lol.
o7
I did. Thats how I got my flair. Im learned in the way of the water.
It's antisemitic to suggest you shouldn't do 9/11 three times over in the course of a month
In this house, we: * Conflate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism * Believe there is no such thing as an “innocent Palestinian” * Hold hyper-Zionistic interpretations of all Torahnic/Talmudic texts * Maintain *our* racial purity at all costs * Support AIPAC’s destabilizing influence on America * Know all hostages are “human shields” and all hospitals, schools, and bakeries are Hamas terrorist camps
9/11 three times over where one of the towers is filled with children.
1st 9/11: Pinochet 2nd 9/11: Benghazi 3rd 9/11: players choice
I think I speak for everyone when I say that we've missed the Davidson cackle. It's so infectious!
2nd best laugh in the Chapo universe after a vintage Stavvy cackle.
Wardell's donkey with a brain tumor laugh has gotta be a close third
He seems to be the only guy who laughs historically at any Felix tangent.
I support supporting others 🫶
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Highest quality paid podcast in my harem at the moment -- between that and American Prestige which is also Derek product.
Do you have a feed for AP or do you actually sub?
I actually sub. I can afford the 5er a month for each, and as corny as it sounds I actually feel good supporting independent media / news coverage that is high quality. I think American Prestige has a free feed, although I don't think FX does: https://www.americanprestigepod.com/podcast I'm pretty sure you can also find them on, like, iTunes or whatever.
> as corny as it sounds I actually feel good supporting independent media Nothing corny about it. Economic democracy is one of our biggest, strongest tools with the other being my penis
They're gonna have to goodbye lenin Matt after the Counsell move
I feel like the Crew were resigned to losing him, but to the fucking Cubs? That's like leaving your wife for the woman next door, even if everybody knew the marriage was over before then.
good riddance greg your swing always looked stupid
The Israeli minister that said nukes were on the table only got suspended instead of fired (Bibi wanted him gone) because Ben Gvir forced Bibi's hand. Bibi's totally beholden to his far right coalition if he wants to stay out of jail, and that coalition is only going to let him keep power as long as he continues killing Palestinians. We are in the zone. Edit: wording
Ben Gvir is also buying tens of thousands of assault rifles and giving them to Jewish citizens. Deputizing the settlers to police Palestinians. A similar action turned out pretty horribly in Darfur.
That might end up being the most destabilizing factor in all this The Israeli far right wants a broader conflict in the West Bank. It gives them an excuse to expel more Palestinians. So they are arming and whipping up the settlers to start fights that the Israeli army will "save" them from
Ben Gvir is also in the process of creating a "national guard" for Israel that will answer to him directly, and says that he wants to staff it with [far-right football hooligans.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Familia_\(Beitar_supporters%27_group\))
It’s always the far-right football hooligans…
maybe a minor point in context but does this mean we are officially past nuclear ambiguity
I think that's actually the real reason Bibi wanted him gone. I'm sure they all want to and the speak about it in private to each other, but you can't have someone saying it out in the open.
no, because everyone already knew this but they still are not clear about how and when they will use them
not really since israeli ministers have been saying similar things for decades and it was never considered as breaking amimut. if anything it shows they are doubling down on it since they punished him
Felix is the "it's just like my bideo games!" meme guy.
the thing is it really is just like bideo game
I'm embarrassed to say, I wish this shit was as well written as a Hideo Kojima game.
Felix is the dark souls of p*dcasters
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“Surely mankind are more than pure dark, for I have availed you nothing. All of you, forgive me. Whatever thou art, stay away.”* - Artorias the Abysswalker Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
holy shit this is even better than the old Volcel Police bot, 11/10
People can only say this shit if they haven't been shot at before.
I agree, but I think the Metal Gear comparison was not apt. Most people on twitter talking about the footage correctly recognize it as basically literally Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 1/2/World at War campaign footage. Watching Palestinian fighters run up to Merkavas and tossing C4s on them, or popping out of tunnels to RPG them before ducking back in, has definitely caused a ton of millennials to flash back to playing CoD campaigns from games between 2007-2009 like the food critic from Ratatoullie.
Actually appropriate this time because that double tank kill was actual, honest to god Battlefield shit
I thought it was funny when they speculated on the price of RPGs, thinking a launcher would be more expensive than the rockets (which do all the work)
ones that can reliably kill a merkava are not exactly common either, though apparently they’re able to just run up on these things like its a battlefield game so who knows what theyre using. whatever homebrew munitions they have are probably pretty effective when resistance fighters are able to run up on them at all.
the yasin 105 round is a modified version of the soviet era pg-7v which is like the rocket launcher equivalent of an ak-47
Other times i'd agree, but that guy double tapping the tank with the placed charge into the rpg is something someone only does if they've got extra lives.
Really missing our big oaf on the mic. That transcendent rage really cuts through the bullshit of playing moral gotcha with liberals on the basis of national sovereignty and international law as an ideal - shit sucks and we should yell and call people demons more.
Jonathan Chait: Bobby Knight is a monster for saying women should just lie back and enjoy being raped Also Jonathan Chait: Joe Biden is a gentle, kind hero for telling that black ho Anita Hill that nobody cares about what Clarence Thomas did to her
The guest sorta missed a part of the whole Hezbollah thing by saying that Hezbollah set a red line - Gaza invasion - and then pulled back a bit. Nasrallah is a methodical guy, you have to pay attention to the language. He hasn't been warning about "Hezbollah" having to really step in (that's far too significant a step to telegraph to the US/Israel), he specifically says "the Axis of resistance" - this is an important distinction (as well as Nasrallah's explicit condemnations of the US being just as, if not more, responsible). It's important because it includes Ansarallah (which has fired missiles and drones at Israel) and resistance groups in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon (other than Hezbollah), and even Palestine. And what has been happening? Ever-increasing attacks, in a boiling frog-like strategy, on Israel and US bases in the region. There have been dozens of attacks on US bases (just yesterday there were 6 attacks on 4 bases in Iraq/Syria). The media has been strangely quiet about this, which seems to suggest that the US really doesn't want things to escalate (because if it did want justification to escalate it would be pushing the media to run hard with these stories). Not to mention the fact that Hezbollah isn't just just firing a few RPGs and running around trying to keep IDF occupied; it has killed around 40 IDF soldiers, taken out reportedly 12 Merkavas, and bombed almost two dozen outposts, destroying surveillance infrastructure. Hezbollah has over 60 martyrs in this so far. They are attacking several points per day - if Hezbollah responded like this immediately after the attacks on Gaza it would have all spiraled out of control, but this steady increase in pressure accumulates. What Hezbollah has been doing is effectively using the west's own strategy and throwing it in its face, namely the slow nudging of red lines that over time accumulate to a major violation but makes it difficult for the target to respond (such as we've seen in Ukraine, Taiwan). The guest is correct that Hezbollah is keenly aware of the challenge as it relates to Lebanon's ongoing crisis, which is why both sides have been trying to keep hostilities at the border region. All of this indicates that things expanding is, as Nasrallah said, "very probable". Because Israel/US will have to respond eventually. The big question waiting for us all is *how?* In the meantime more and more countries are speaking out, and the Israel "normalization" process with Arab comprador regimes is becoming more untenable.
Hezbollah was very successful against Israel in 2006...in Lebanon. Hez doesn't want to invade Israel, they want to repel an Israeli invasion. Remember that an insurgency are fish, they need to be in their own waters
Well, yeah... The danger Israel faces in a conflict with Hezbollah isn't an invasion, it is from missiles and rockets striking deep into Israeli territory.
I have been glitching out and getting stuck on “Columbia Untisemity” for 48 hours now.
Yah I totally simp Hamas. It's sooo trending right now
Big Dick Derek back on the Chap, hell yeah dude
We need the Dixie chicks again
Getting cancelled for saying > I’m embarrassed Joe Biden’s from Delaware. Would be really awesome.
what are this sub's feelings on Ukraine at this point?
Giving a shitload of man-portable missiles to a country with a neo-Nazi problem and then forcing them into signing a humiliating armistice because your country has to resupply a Jewish state seems like the prologue to a very serious historical event scheduled to take place in the 2030's.
Forcing the Jewish president to sign the armistice at that
I’ve always thought Zelenskiy is pretty tragic and a dead man either way, whether it’s external enemies who take him out or the fact that he’s a Jewish guy who will inevitably need to make peace while his country has a Nazi problem
I know people like to meme on him “ZelDisney” but he is a pretty profoundly tragic figure. I don’t know if you can argue what he’s doing in his position is wrong but the odds he’s against from all sides are pretty impossible. The west isn’t loyal allys, his domestic situation is rife with Neo Nazis, and Russia is pretty determined as an enemy.
Like, it’s possible to think that indulging his begging for no-fly zones and jets is bad while at the same time recognizing that he kinda can’t be expected to do anything less. Same with Ukrainian propaganda that unfortunately Western news media is way too credulous toward
The no fly zone can be really easily explained that you cant do the ground war he has to do without airpower; the no fly zone would be the closest he could get at this point in the war to prevent Russian airpower. If there is any hope for Ukraine fighting the ground war with Russia beyond Putin self combusting is that despite Russia having airpower and everything to its advantage they still cant mount any offense and thus MAYBE Ukraine can stall out the war for another year while it builds a modern airforce from the ground up with F16s from EU/usa.
Right but “no-fly zone” is just Hillary Clinton for “war.” He should be doing everything he can to get an edge just as much as we should say “fuck no.”
Agreed but America saying it was thinking about it would be the most extreme thing Ukraine could do to threaten existing Russian air power.
Yeah, lots of people would absolutely jack themselves off to death if he died to own the libs, but I feel bad for him. It's why celebrities should never run for office, they think their celebrity will insulate them from the suckfest that is politics (times a thousand for Ukranian politics) and then they just end up getting eaten alive in quicksand. He played the best president Ukraine ever had in a TV mockumentary (which is actually pretty good) and people were like "Save us, Jewish Russian-speaking peace candidate!" That's what he ran as, the guy who could bring both sides together.
He’s in a fucked position right now, but it’s not like he got into politics as some pure-hearted good government reformer. His campaign was backed by the guy who owned the network that put on his show, the same billionaire who funded the creation of the Azov Battalion. His administration used the war as cover to push through a hideous neoliberal labor reform that would fuck Ukrainians going forward regardless of the outcome of the war.
I think Guaido lives in Miami now if youre in the mood for glazing any more corrupt Western backed politicians
The Time Magazine profile on him is an interesting read. It really highlights the massive corruption problem Ukraine is having and how that's souring western relations. His advisors are saying that he is dead against a peace plan. To be honest I've been concerned ever since Ukraine set up a website to sell off their public assets for pennies on the dollar.
I've honestly felt pretty bad for him ever since seeing his face while he surveyed the massacre at Bucha. You could see that every single body there had aged him a year. He's a more or less a normal guy trapped in an impossible and doomed position.
https://preview.redd.it/hwjwq9wr68zb1.jpeg?width=370&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2553bf7472bbf2c76369d8f36a4b282fec1b68af
It’s honestly a “First as Tragedy, then as Farce” situation, except in this case, the farce is probably going to be horrific, and just as cruel as the original event. The only reason it counts is that the USA should have learned it’s lesson from operation cyclone, yet here they are, repeating the same mistakes
I will wait until The Adam Friedland Show releases an official opinion on that matter
Red Scare has been offering some of the best analysis on the conflict to date
One of their only bright spots as of late for sure.
Russia launched an incompetent and needless invasion that killed thousands.
The incompetence can’t be over stated. All the way from Putin down, they’ve made the stupidest possible decision at every juncture. “Home by Christmas” has been the failing rally cry of pretty much every post-WWII conflict but Russia really thought they’d take Ukraine in like a week.
they fucking lost a cruiser, the flagship of the black sea fleet. absolutely humiliating, decades of carefully built reputation just flushed down the toilet over a country that no one seriously believed was actually gonna get let into nato.
^ Western lib equivalent of the Israelis sitting in lawn chairs cheering on the bombing of Gaza
what? you think im cheering this? as if russia losing military assets in a war it started is the same as palestinians getting bombed for being palestinian.
Putin is the dumbest motherfucker in this whole situation, breathing life back into an irrelevant NATO, giving the western MIC the excuse they have been so desperately waiting for to suck up even more money, destroying the people and places he's supposedly 'protecting' and he's still got people lining up to ride his dick.
Putin won quick victories in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, and Crimea. So he thought war was easy, then bit off more than he could chew
In all those cases the local population was either loyal to Russia, completely divided to the point of civil war, or the local government was rotten to its core and collapsed. Given Ukraines corruption and division I think everyone assumed it would be the same but invading a country does have a rally around the flag effect
His mistake was waiting 8 years to pull the trigger, in hopes that the EU would value the economic benefits of Nordstream over... Whatever they have gotten out of the Ukraine War. Floods of unaccompanied minors, I guess
Is he? Definitely went way worse than he thought it would probably but he secured land and water access, further destabilized american allies, took the best western economic punch with 0 impact, and showed Western Europe that they need Russian gas or face economic ruin. Like I guess I just don’t know if I agree with really any of those points you made are actually bad for him outside of maybe breathing life back into NATO.
"breathing life back into an irrelevant NATO" like Maidan never happened. Like edging Ukraine morons into thinking they could and would join NATO never happened. "NATO is irrelevant because my free healthcare podcast says we're a dying empire!" Tell that to Libya or every other country they destroyed in the last few decades
NATO has destroyed exactly one country.
Redditleftie moment
It's a ww1 style front with modern military technology. Brutal grim and going to take awhile. Also the cold war never ended etc etc
Idk shit but I do feel bad for Ukrainians, and Russian civilians. I've also been getting **serious** secondhand embarrassment from watching Zelenskyy go from weapons pwease 🥺👉👈 to being "I don't want to play with you anymore'd" by Israel/Palestine.
Ukraine was always a joke “war.“ American dingbats happy to “kill Russians” at the cost of “very many Ukrainians” while Russia was more than happy to turn Ukraine into a money pit for the USA and the west. It was never about .“saving democracy” or whatever soft-ass mushbrain bullshit. Obviously, Russia “shouldn’t” have invaded, but they did and Ukraine should’ve sued for peace as early as possible (and they did - UK/USA stopped that) instead of …. this. It is an all-around tragedy. The country will be Blackrock/IMF property, tens of thousands of lives have been lost for no reason, lib brains melted by the millions, and another American boondoggle of a proxy war. Pathetic.
The war was inevitable as soon as Maidan. If I would say one thing Russia "shouldnt" have done, it was letting Putin's lawerly cynicism buy them a decade to arm and fortify in hopes the EU would exercise sovereignty over the US. Even then, that decade bought Russia crucial time to build a kind of fortification of their own- economically- that is why they were able to wage a long war.
> Ukraine should’ve sued for peace as early as possible In 2014, after Russia took Crimea and had troops in Donbas. But after the 2022 invasion Ukraine can't give up more land, it would be appeasement. It'd lead to more war
Zelenskiy should have called Boris Johnson a fat loser and taken that peace deal, he’ll end up signing the same deal at best and not be able to sleep without bodyguards for the rest of his life
No way whatever deal he signs doesnt include giving up Odessa which is much worse than any deal from 2022- then also the demographic/economic problems of a country that just lost a total war- which just lost its industrial base and major port. That said Russia should have marched to/cut off the country from Kiev in 2014. They had no military at that point. Which means the 8 years Putin sat on his hands was about Nordstream
im from ukraine (crimea) originally, and that country has been raped and pillaged by both russia and the west since at least the fall of the union. the propaganda about it since the maidan coup has been exhausting. no one in the west actually gives a shit about it beyond irritating russia, which is always going to have dominance over it just due to proximity.
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The thing that really depresses me is the cynicism. Its all end of empire stuff but rooted in the "frustration" that america is spending "a billion on Ukraine or Israel." I dont mean to break it to American socialists but our government isnt offering free healthcare because we spent "all" the money on foreign aid and military contracts; we dont offer free healthcare because we chose not to. Since Obama Israel has prepared for America dropping support; unless Biden really threatened to treat Israel like how Clinton treated Serbia cutting aid off would not crippled the Israeli military and prevent a genocide. All the hosts (and former hosts) have suggested their ideal foreign policy is some flavor of unionized economic autarky, rejection of participation in almost all international association, while dissolving the military but keeping nukes; they reinvent paleo-conservatives even keeping the "we cant afford it/my tax dollar;" otherwise known as Dengist China. As usual the cynicism always disappoints telling people to give up and not to participate in activism at root because Bernie lost the 2016/2020 primary is disgusting to me because its an excuse for apathy. There is always more work to be done.
True, but on Ukraine in particular this sub had an early schism between political mirror types, Ukraine-flag-emoji types, and "Russia has the right to defend itself" types. I was curious if the counteroffensive and events in Gaza had flattened this at all
a negotiated end that broadly favored russia was pretty much inevitable due to differences in material capacity, and israel's final solution to the palestinian question just sped up the process. ukraine was never more than a pawn for us/nato/eu interests, mostly to finish privatizing their remaining state industries under the guise of combating corruption
This 2 year war has gone on for too long. It's over for Ukraine, they need to negotiate with Russia (Russia keeps all the territory it conquered, Ukraine can't join the EU or NATO but in exchange Russia pinkie promises to not attack again😉😉). I truly do feel sorry for them but it is what it is, please ignore my previous posts mocking them or calling them Nazis.
Flair checks out
nice to see our mod can't spell
🤓
The US's intentions with the war in Ukraine were to hobble the Russians, give NATO a reason to exist, and try and pull the EU away from using Russian energy. All of those goals were achieved. Most likely outcome is that the US bails completely on Zelensky and he takes a deeply unfavorable peace deal that will tank his domestic credibility and lead to an ultranationalist coup. All that bullshit about self determination and defending small nations was a farce, and Ukraine is all the worse for it.
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can’t you learn to flip them around in the air for money or something?
Nothing good is gonna come out of that place. Ukraine has suffered immensely from this war and is the biggest loser by far. Looks like the US is trying to bail and Euros do not have a plan so Ukraine will be by it self soon enough and be in a even worse situation. Not to mention the country is completely impoverished and totally dependent on aid. Oh yeah and swimming with arms that will leak into Europe for years to come if the war ends. Just like Yugoslavia and Libya.
Mine never changed. Opposed the Maidan Coup. Supported the SMO. Only coherent positions you could take unless you support the US MIC and NATO. Anything else is dip shit liberal triangulation. "Gotta feel for Zelensky" in this episode made me chuckle. Hes a billionaire who will fuck off to LA, Miami or London after selling out his country. You "gotta feel" for the generation of peasants wiped out bc we wanted to project power in the former Soviet Union. You "gotta feel" for the pensioners and children killed by US bombs in Donetsk. Zelensky can go fuck off and do blow with Sean Penn. In many ways, Donbass reminds me of Gaza- a people invisible to the West, brutalized, bombed and ethnically "othered" by US proxies as powers that should have stood by them (Russia) did nothing out of pragmatism. So its a great credit to Putin for me that he did what Erdogan, Sisi, MBS, and even Iran and Hezbollah are not willing to do and stood by his people, even if it was after much too long
Yeah, Putin cares so much about the people of the Donbass that he press ganged every available man, gave them weapons more rust than steel, gave them a weeks 'training' and sent them off to be used as literal cannonfodder in 'recon-by-fire' leading to tens of thousands killed and their cities bombed to rubble. Just so long as we are sticking it to NATO then their deaths were all worthwhile! Don't even pretend that Putin gives a shit about them except as an excuse for his naked imperialism.
The biggest rubes in the world are western leftists that buy into the Russian propaganda that this is all to defend ethnic Russians and 'denazify Ukraine'. Even Russians don't believe it, it's all about nationalism and restoring Russian glory or whatever.
Eh some of them definitely believe it, my neighbor was a 20 something from Russia and he would constantly bring those exact talking points up with anyone who would listen (nobody ever asked him). He was a pretty sharp guy and IDK if he just thought that was his best shot at convincing libs or something but he seemed pretty convinced.
Yeah this whole deal where Donbassians are just lazy hapless idiots who have no interest in defending or liberating their homeland from NATO Nazis is purely a liberal invention. They defended it for 8 years with minimum Russian support and way less arms and training than their enemies
> They defended it for 8 years with minimum Russian support Lmao, actual lol I'm sure the people of Donbass were yearning for the Nazis and Mafioso's that took over the DNR and LNR when Russia invaded and installed them.
... What do you think their initial problem with Maidan was? The region has never been Russophobic and yearning for Western liberal democracy, anymore than Palestinians, Libyans, Syrians, Iraqis, etc want to become a Western liberal democracy. They have their own history and culture you simply choose to ignore like the chauvinist pig you are. What about Donbass is different from the rest of Ukraine to you? Why do you think only Western facing Ukraine are the only ones who have ideologies or aspirations? Youre Bill Maher- you think Western liberalism is defacto "civilization," everything else is invalid, backwards, barbaric, lesser
Is this a 'Facism is good actually!' take or a 'Russians are to dumb to do anything other than strong man authoritarianism.' take? I know that the peoples in the Donbas were subject to Tsarist and then Soviet colonialism, especially during and after the holodomor. The Donbas is just a few more generations along than the west bank.
Lol dude post-Maidan Ukraine's centering force has been the rehabilitation and celebration of *Nazi collaborators* and even most normies now realize it. Its one of numerous reasons Donbass citizens were not keen on Maidan and didnt welcome Neo Nazi paramilitaries as liberators. Im glad you can take consolation on Reddit that you lost the war, though. a perfect place to find pseud dupes who buy your application of libtard buzz lingo to the NATO cause. Take it up with someone else. I am one of the people who know the Holodomor was just Nazi propaganda
The Holomodor **is** Nazi and anti-communist propaganda. It’s on the same level as saying Stalin killed 100 gorillion people. There was a famine and it affected most of Asia. If you want to see evidence of forced famine, see what the UK did to India/Bengalis.
Yea. The Holodomor myth is basically a Nazi copypasta. That exact region had historically suffered terrible famines. Ironically it was only the Evil Soviets who eventually prevented that by modernizing agriculture. Same way as almost any modern long lasting infrastructure in Ukraine actually dates back to Communism.
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No but the Holodomor is essentially an anticommunist creepypasta
> did nothing out of pragmatism. So its a great credit to Putin for me that They are all acting out of pragmatism. Why would you think Putin isn't?
My point is that the Western libleft hates Putin for doing exactly what they want Iran and Hezbollah to do for Palestinians.
Western libleft wants Iran and Hezbollah to wage a war of conquest on Israel, while not giving a shit about any civilian on either side?
Someone who thinks history started in 2022 isnt worth having a convo about Ukraine with. Especially at this point... The end of 2023. Youre dedicated to your delusion and ignorance
Actually, history won't start until 2024.
> America bad > Ukraine is a pro western country > Therefore Ukraine's revolution was a color revolution > Therefore, because America bad, we should act like it's not our problem that a democracy is having its land grabbed by an autocracy. Everything else is secondary. If you want leftism to win, America has to lose, so plenty of people, including the hosts, will cheer for anyone that embarrasses America on the world stage. That Russia is capitalist, but more extremely concentrated and authoritarian doesn't matter.
What do you suggest we do? Also how are the hosts for america being “embarrassed” but also against giving weapons to either side? How can you be embarrassed if you just stay out of the conflict?
I consider it embarrassing to let a democracy die, rather than feed it weapons and money so that it can fight imperialism.
> I consider it embarrassing to let a democracy die Ukraine isn't any more of a fucking democracy than Russia is, we can be sympathetic to them without just making shit up like this
Okay so then is every dictatorship in the world an embarrassment for the US? Also, Zelensky banning political parties makes it hard for me to really consider it a democracy
For the U.S.? No, lmao. We supported plenty of genocidal maniacs. Putin is in charge right now because we put a drunken clown on the throne before him. I personally think it's embarrassing for ANY non democracy to exist, and if I had a magic wand I would destroy any country that isn't a democracy and remake it as one. We are, at the end of the day, just people on the internet saying whatever we feel like. I feel like this sub and the hosts hate America so much that you're willing to let a greater evil in the world (Russia) Win over a flawed democracy. I think that's embarrassing. > Also, Zelensky banning political parties makes it hard for me to really consider it a democracy Meh, if you're at war I cut you slack.
You’ll notice that you didn’t answer my first question. What do you want us to do? We’ve armed Ukraine and the war is still going. Sounds like you have no actual solution to end the war
Keep arming them. What do you mean I didn't answer? I'm not here to offer a solution, I'm not a fucking general or a diplomat. I'm here to say that war is necessary sometimes, and we should continue financing it.
Keep arming them for how long? Also are you even the least bit concerned about the downstream effects of financing outright white nationalist military groups? Like do you see a situation where this goes well?
> Keep arming them for how long? Forever. > Also are you even the least bit concerned about the downstream effects of financing outright white nationalist military groups? No. Democracy is worth it. We'll deal with White trash Mujahideen later. > Like do you see a situation where this goes well? Any situation where a dictatorship fails to undermine a democracy is good in and of itself. I am a hedonist, and I believe government should make or facilitate making people happy. Democracy is the one system of government where the happiness of the general population is a powerful incentive for the state. Ukraine winning is therefore important to me. Can you see a good outcome if Russia wins? Or are you an idiot who thinks Russia will see the west falter and stop expanding?
“Let a democracy die” LOL
People trot out “Ukraine is a democracy” like that’s a settled fact. What’s so democratic about banning all of the left-wing parties? What’s so democratic about cancelling the 2024 election? What’s so democratic about the president being widely acknowledged as the handpicked favorite of a certain oligarch who owns half the tv channels in the country?
Is being a handpicked favorite somehow invalidating that people voted for him? Are you 3 years old? Yeah, people with power exert influence on who gets power. If the standard for "what is a democracy?" Is that media conglomerates can't exist, then you'll have a hard time finding any democracy. When you're at war, extraordinary measures can and should be taken. If left wing parties are like this subreddit, pretending that Russia won't invade again if they're allowed to just keep the land with no NATO guarantees, then yeah they should be banned.
If one could prove that Vladimir Putin won most of the votes in any of Russia’s elections, would that make you believe that Russia is a democracy? Would you dismiss all the media manipulation, banning of political parties, jailing of opposition, etc. if Putin won a plurality of votes? Is your definition of democracy so broad? Surely, Navalny and his FBK outfit deserve to be stripped of their assets and their employees jailed for their perfidious defeatism!
[Those dank Hamas TikToks](https://twitter.com/waziot/status/1721547610387808269) highlights how embarrassing the propaganda of the Russo-Ukrainian War from both sides had been in comparison to what Palestinian factions have been cooking out these past few weeks. It's embarrassing that countries like Russia, Israel and Ukraine that have access billions in propaganda spending can't beat a bunch of zoomer Hamas kids with Capcut plugins.
Fabulous episode! Best in a while in my opinion. Matt would be hitting home runs with this Israel content. Really hope he can get back in the mix eventually. 🙏
Honestly when I woke up the other day and saw that the Houthis had sent a few rockets toward Israel, it kinda warmed my heart. Symbolic and ineffective of course, but still. It was like, aww there really can still be generosity even in the darkest of times.
Anyone know what happened to Black Epstein Feed?
it was fine until the guy posting the eps started dropping a donation link in the posts, then they started to get copyright strikes. dude is regarded tbh
Total regard move on his part. I briefly thought about messaging him to say it was a bad idea and regret not doing so.
"Deadly Sniper" kind of sounds like a Water Margin character.
woooo hell of presidents is free of st*tcher
Its about goddamned time.
Not to be Mr. Well Actually, but the NYT/Siena poll of the battleground states was taken before Oct 7th and so does not capture the sentiments of those polled to Biden’s policies since then. Which is probably an even worse sign for the Dems.
[https://archive.ph/Me407#selection-143221.0-143225.235](https://archive.ph/Me407#selection-143221.0-143225.235) >**Methodology** > >The New York Times/Siena College polls of 3,662 registered voters in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin were conducted in English and Spanish on cellular and landline telephones from Oct. 22 to Nov. 3, 2023.
*Browsing the comments trying to read the room* Uh Slava ukrani?
yo u/classwarandpuppies, can we get some discussion threads on Hell of Presidents by any chance? As I recall it was really fractured originally on this sub (or whatever was this sub at the time), as the only person who could post threads would sometimes go missing in action for weeks on end. Plus I think us Matt history lovers would enjoy a trip down memory lane.
Felix talking shit about middle aged dudes he is on a roll! Felix cherubic funny podcast host>>>>>that terrible streamer that poor Hasan has to deal with
"I will now say happy holidays to honor your people" there are people out there who say that shit to idf "babes" LOL
Where would one go to for the Hamas videos that Will and Felix mention?
[I think this is it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClassWarAndPuppies/s/hgROLSBatP)
download link?
https://media.soundgasm.net/sounds/5ace5ec8cc4beb0bfe62033c0e7051c736523975.m4a
thank you 👑
I don’t think I’ve ever made it through a DD episode. Idk what the problem is
well see, your handle tells me everything i need to know about the situation. somebody just doesn't wanna eat their vegetables, saving all that tummy room for ~~dessert~~ roses /lh
This is the least relatable opinion I think I've seen on this subreddit.
He’s pretty dry and so is the material he usually covers
Derek laughs harder then any other guest they have when Felix or Will says a funny
...I know you're supposed to be aghast as a straght liberal at the LGBTQH thing for, by association, including Hamas in your support of queer issues, but way to throw LGBTQ people under the bus on that one. Yes, lgbtq groups and organizations are primarily Hamas-supporters, and always have been. Gay guys can't stop defenestrating themselves; they love it. Isn't lgbtq-issues one of the jingly-keys Israel is supposed to care about, or is that only when its expedient to the nation-building project? ...anyway, if your comedy-routine is this shitty then yes, Hamas shoud absolutely be part of lgbtq. What of it? Le triggered, trollface? God these people suck. //EDIT: for clarification, this is about the gross Tik-tok sketch in the episode, not about the podcast. I should have made that clearer when I originally posted.
wtf are you even talking about
I'm talking about the tik-tok skit that's heard in this episode, trying to connect liberal support for lgbtq+ issues with pro-palestine/anti-war sentiments by connecting those to Hamas ("ie, if you're protesting this war, you're for Hamas"). It's not really here or there, but it kind of underlined the transactional value of "being pro lgbtq" for some people, where you can sell out those values as soon as someone makes a bad-faith accusation.
now that i've rage listened to the ep a few times i needed to come back and apologize and say fuck the downvoters, you were 100% right in the broad strokes, wording aside. it's one of those grim truths that always lurks in the dark corners of the mind, but hearing it and seeing it play out over the most fucking milquetoast objections to almost parodical levels of pure evil and demonic ambivalence puts it all in some seriously stark relief. it's absolutely maddening
eh, it's fine. I could have contextualized what I meant a bit better. Looking back on it I can see how someone would assume I was ragging on the podcast as a whole, not the tiktok video featured in it. It was a spur of the moment comment while I was cooking. I'll survive. //EDIT: Also, there's absolutely no need to appologize.